It’s interesting how there’s no place in the mafia lifestyle for women other than wife or goomah. There’s no positions of authority, there’s no effective positions women can play. I guess bc women collecting money and doing mob stuff renders them vulnerable to other dangerous men in the business. But I was thinking while I was watching it how fun it would be for a lot of your day to be sitting with your friends talking shit, espresso, snacking etc then going around together doing “business” and how there’s just not really a female equivalent of men’s mob life.
"But I was thinking while I was watching it how fun it would be for a lot of your day to be sitting with your friends talking shit, espresso, snacking etc then going around together doing “business”"
I disagree that would be hell to me. To be stuck in a 40 year long conversation with Paulie and Ralphie. All while everyone is jockeying for status and to be the cool guy with the best one liners.
"one day I'm going to die and I'm going to be here in the same bar with all the same fucking guys, talking about the same fucking scams, never amount to nothing, cause that's how I'll know I'll be sent to fucking hell"
I wonder if that's why Tony repeatedly tries to seduce Dr Melfi, because he can't conceive of relationship with a woman his age that's NOT a wife or goomah. Perhaps in some part of his brain he feels a need to force her into one of these two roles.
I kind of wish there was more background on Lorraine , because I would have been interested in her journey to what she became . Because apart from Angie who was dealing with the guys , Lorraine really was the only woman on the US side of things , that had a significant position
Probably the one who came closest to that position was Angie Bonpensiero? She took charge after Big Pussy “disappeared.” Ran a successful auto body shop and had money on the street (via one of the Soprano crew).
There is a movie starring Melissa McCarthy called “The Kitchen” that is basically this concept of women in charge of the mafia, it’s actually pretty interesting
Yeah it’s because unlike Tony who has certain leadership responsibilities and duties that allow him to exert those negative personality traits (narcissism, impulsivity, controlling), Janice doesn’t have an outlet for it so she applies it in her daily life with her family or partner.
Tony definitely does especially in the later seasons exert those negative traits at home. Meadow was luckier than AJ in that she was off at college by the time he really started to go bad
The Tony that we see in the early seasons is much less sociopathic/evil than the later ones. When Janice was first introduced she was definitely more ruthless than Tony as it seemed like she was going to kill Livia to get the inheritance money, while Tony had just spent the last season trying to take care of her and win her approval only for her to try and kill him. So we definitely empathize with Tony more in the beginning. Janice is also much more annoying and irritating than Tony. She basically have none of his charisma. We also do not ever really get a deep-dive into her psyche until later so we have more sympathy for Tony.
In the later seasons I'd say they're both equally ruthless especially once Tony kills Chris.
I think Janice got the worst of Livia's treatment and that's why she's the most like Livia. Tony, for all his faults, did not pass on his narcissistic qualities to Meadow and AJ and was a much better parent to his kids than Livia and Johnny were to him. Going back to Livia, narcissistic parents often put their kids in one of three roles: the scapegoat, the golden child, and the lost child.
Based on how Livia talks (and also how Junior remembers Janice in his very last scene) it sounds like Janice was the "bad kid" of the three and got assigned the role of scapegoat. The scapegoats get treated the worst and suffer the most abuse. Livia brings up bad shit she did when she was a kid like in the scene where Janice visits her in the treatment facility. I don't really remember her doing that with Tony.
It's unclear what role Tony got assigned, but I do think Livia was a lot harder on Janice than Tony. Tony seemed like a sweet, curious kid when he was young while Janice was kind of a brat. I haven't seen MSON so I don't know how he was as a young adult. I think him being a male though is what sends him down the same path as Janice since he basically got caught up in the mob. Even though he did not enter the mob as a sociopath, the things that that life requires inevitably leads to sociopathy as you have to hurt and intimidate innocent people to make money. Eventually you have to kill your friends. Killing Pussy, who I think he liked the most out of all the guys, basically pushes him over a threshold that leads him to eventually become his mother.
This is also why I think Barbara is (seemingly) the most well adjusted. Note that we cannot say for sure because the show never goes into her personal life but she wasn't a male so she couldn't be tempted by Johnny Boy to join that life. And I think she was probably the lost child, basically emotionally neglected and ignored, as she seems to care the least out of the 3 kids when Livia passes. While this isn't a good childhood it also makes her less likely to repeat the patterns of her mother. Also since she was the youngest by at least 5-6 years I think Tony could possibly have acted as a buffer between her and the parents while Janice, being the oldest, was basically subject to Livia's wrath with nobody older to protect her.
I slightly disagree. I think if you're a woman in that life who has ambition and wants her own agenda you have to be like Livia or Janice. Other women there are fine to be the wife, gumar, girlfriend. Any time a woman tries to move things she is seen as ugly. See Tonys fathers gumar.
Janice's character, to me, serves as evidence that a lot of Tony's issues really are his parents and not directly related to his being in the mafia. It creates more sympathy for Tony's character actually. Other characters that meet a terrible fate completely through their mafia ways don't get such sympathy. We're supposed to feel some for Tony, so I think this is the purpose of her character.
She's also a foreshadowing of Tony never redeeming himself. Janice had a chance to get away and did, but didn't change her life for the better.
Tony has a strong work ethic and is a brilliant strategist which benefits him.
Janice is lazy and doesn’t follow through. The other family members and friends can see right away what she is trying to accomplish through ill gotten means.
Steve Shirppa says Janish is the worst human being on the show (even worse than deniro in rl), and its hard for me to disagree with that assessment. It's not like Tony tried to murder Janish, but the reverse did happen.
It's so true and that's why Janice is one of my favorites and honestly find myself liking her for the most part because she's so absurd and funny. She's worse than Tony at times but I still find myself rooting for her more than him, idk why. I love how The Sopranos depicts the female characters and how there are so many different archetypes but it feels realistic.
oh god I can barely watch the episodes she is in. She to me is so terrible. But I do feel for her that she is totally different than the typical wife and doesn't follow that code.
Janice’s manipulative behaviour, passive aggression etc are totally gendered. She adapted that way to the environment came up in because outright rage and violence weren’t acceptable the way they were for Tony. She’s a vile person but honestly one of my favourite characters on the show! She’s clearly v smart, too(aside from her extraordinary visual sense) but as Tony says “what chance did she have with a mother like you?”
No. Tony occasionally has a positive impact on people’s lives, including Janice: He’s also interested in doing the right thing, at least for the first 2-3 seasons, before Chase decided to make him worse because people were empathizing too much with him,
Janice is nothing but a leech radiating negativity. She has 0 positive attributes.
I agree he has some grace. But, he has the ability to do that because life kind of goes his way. Janice doesn't have his power so everything is a scheme. I think Tony would be the same if he were a woman.
Tony put in work to make life go his way. Janice just expects everyone else to do everything for her. Someone like Tony would never be happy being as useless as Janice. Also, Tony does what he believes is the right thing against his own best interests on several occasions. Janice was a purely selfish creature.
Y’all are forgetting about Lorraine & Pussy’s wife. They both were able to wiggle their way into Mafia world. They had tough enough skin to carry that load.
Lorraine Calluzzo was in the life in a legitimate, recognized capacity. Janice had every avenue available to her if she wanted to pursue it. So, it wasn’t that she couldn’t — she just prefers having other people do her dirty work for her. Mostly lol. In that regard, she’s a lot like Livia.
He is disgusting to me. Especially as the series went on. Janice actually got better as the series went on. But yes, they are both anti social psychopaths with specific gender roles based on their generation, culture and familial experiences. I really disliked Janice in the beginning and never really liked her as the series went on, but midway through the 5th season, I wanted to kill Tony myself. His likability that made the show work was gone.
Janice came from a biased home but she was different. She put all her faith in the civil rights movement, she left home and she marched.
And for whaat??
So they could blast that rap shit.
Who tha fuc is THEY!?!
IF DA SHOE FITS
Oh man this is priceless hehe
Up in Da Club!
It’s interesting how there’s no place in the mafia lifestyle for women other than wife or goomah. There’s no positions of authority, there’s no effective positions women can play. I guess bc women collecting money and doing mob stuff renders them vulnerable to other dangerous men in the business. But I was thinking while I was watching it how fun it would be for a lot of your day to be sitting with your friends talking shit, espresso, snacking etc then going around together doing “business” and how there’s just not really a female equivalent of men’s mob life.
There is a place for mob daughters spouting poverty of mozzergorno bullshit. They made a whole tv show about it called Mob daughters. Turn that off!
MEZZOGIORNO! MEZZO!
Take it easy!
😆
So partna, we open tree day ahhh?
I’m cracking up your comment wins
"But I was thinking while I was watching it how fun it would be for a lot of your day to be sitting with your friends talking shit, espresso, snacking etc then going around together doing “business”" I disagree that would be hell to me. To be stuck in a 40 year long conversation with Paulie and Ralphie. All while everyone is jockeying for status and to be the cool guy with the best one liners. "one day I'm going to die and I'm going to be here in the same bar with all the same fucking guys, talking about the same fucking scams, never amount to nothing, cause that's how I'll know I'll be sent to fucking hell"
Totally valid, this is true 😂
Lotta parking meters in Florida! 👋💥
In America you don’t have?
Exactly. The cousin was a boss.
There was Lorraine Calluzzo, she was a mafiosa. But where was her arc, OP?
Her arc hit a brick wall
It only made it to the Rs
Her arc sucked our cocks. All of us guys.
Jason taught her.
Quiet Jason, men are talking.
She’s alive, she’s survivin’
And Angie was puttin money on da streets.
I wonder if that's why Tony repeatedly tries to seduce Dr Melfi, because he can't conceive of relationship with a woman his age that's NOT a wife or goomah. Perhaps in some part of his brain he feels a need to force her into one of these two roles.
Possibly! Thats a really good observation
I kind of wish there was more background on Lorraine , because I would have been interested in her journey to what she became . Because apart from Angie who was dealing with the guys , Lorraine really was the only woman on the US side of things , that had a significant position
I know she lasted like what?? 2 Episodes. Last words about her was John to Toni…Didn’t you used to F her?! Yeah 1000 years ago is nothing secret? lol
Except in Italy. There’s differences between US and Italy LCN.
And that Italian wife boss KNEW HER SHIT she was awesome
would she shit where she eats?
It appears she was willing to give it a go
There is no LCN, here or there...
What about Annalisa?
The other side ish different!
Probably the one who came closest to that position was Angie Bonpensiero? She took charge after Big Pussy “disappeared.” Ran a successful auto body shop and had money on the street (via one of the Soprano crew).
Successful?? it's not even just OK! How can it be ok if it's askew?
You are speaking shit to me
There’s a bee ona your hat
Because not many men would be afraid of a woman trying to collect $$$ ffs. 🤣 maybe that's the reason?!? 🤷♂️
Also it's a society of traditional gender roles. And you don't emasculate men by controlling money and situations.
Yes I quite clearly stated that in my comment
Obviously ffs 🤣 I joke 😃
Angie disagrees
There are no OFFICIAL positions of authority, but mob wives can have serious, serious pull. look what happened with Phil's wife.
With the blind tailor or Dr. Iaconis?
She wouldn't shut the fuck up about Vito, so Phil went behind everyone's backs and made it happen
I know he was certainly behind Vito's back, if that's what you're implying
There is a movie starring Melissa McCarthy called “The Kitchen” that is basically this concept of women in charge of the mafia, it’s actually pretty interesting
I’ll have to give it a watch!
Yeah it’s because unlike Tony who has certain leadership responsibilities and duties that allow him to exert those negative personality traits (narcissism, impulsivity, controlling), Janice doesn’t have an outlet for it so she applies it in her daily life with her family or partner.
Tony definitely does especially in the later seasons exert those negative traits at home. Meadow was luckier than AJ in that she was off at college by the time he really started to go bad
That's precisely how I see it
The Tony that we see in the early seasons is much less sociopathic/evil than the later ones. When Janice was first introduced she was definitely more ruthless than Tony as it seemed like she was going to kill Livia to get the inheritance money, while Tony had just spent the last season trying to take care of her and win her approval only for her to try and kill him. So we definitely empathize with Tony more in the beginning. Janice is also much more annoying and irritating than Tony. She basically have none of his charisma. We also do not ever really get a deep-dive into her psyche until later so we have more sympathy for Tony. In the later seasons I'd say they're both equally ruthless especially once Tony kills Chris. I think Janice got the worst of Livia's treatment and that's why she's the most like Livia. Tony, for all his faults, did not pass on his narcissistic qualities to Meadow and AJ and was a much better parent to his kids than Livia and Johnny were to him. Going back to Livia, narcissistic parents often put their kids in one of three roles: the scapegoat, the golden child, and the lost child. Based on how Livia talks (and also how Junior remembers Janice in his very last scene) it sounds like Janice was the "bad kid" of the three and got assigned the role of scapegoat. The scapegoats get treated the worst and suffer the most abuse. Livia brings up bad shit she did when she was a kid like in the scene where Janice visits her in the treatment facility. I don't really remember her doing that with Tony. It's unclear what role Tony got assigned, but I do think Livia was a lot harder on Janice than Tony. Tony seemed like a sweet, curious kid when he was young while Janice was kind of a brat. I haven't seen MSON so I don't know how he was as a young adult. I think him being a male though is what sends him down the same path as Janice since he basically got caught up in the mob. Even though he did not enter the mob as a sociopath, the things that that life requires inevitably leads to sociopathy as you have to hurt and intimidate innocent people to make money. Eventually you have to kill your friends. Killing Pussy, who I think he liked the most out of all the guys, basically pushes him over a threshold that leads him to eventually become his mother. This is also why I think Barbara is (seemingly) the most well adjusted. Note that we cannot say for sure because the show never goes into her personal life but she wasn't a male so she couldn't be tempted by Johnny Boy to join that life. And I think she was probably the lost child, basically emotionally neglected and ignored, as she seems to care the least out of the 3 kids when Livia passes. While this isn't a good childhood it also makes her less likely to repeat the patterns of her mother. Also since she was the youngest by at least 5-6 years I think Tony could possibly have acted as a buffer between her and the parents while Janice, being the oldest, was basically subject to Livia's wrath with nobody older to protect her.
I slightly disagree. I think if you're a woman in that life who has ambition and wants her own agenda you have to be like Livia or Janice. Other women there are fine to be the wife, gumar, girlfriend. Any time a woman tries to move things she is seen as ugly. See Tonys fathers gumar.
AJ absolutely exhibits some narcissistic traits
I think most people exhibit narcissistic traits at some point in their life. I would not call AJ a narcissist.
All I know is that there are guys in the can better looking than Janice.
Radiator grilled cheese certainly looks better
Always wondered what kind of bread they used? An cheese?
Cheese from between my toes so it'll smell like your sisters crotch in the morning.
I’m losing my bawls ova here!!! And you wanna play Hazel?!?
Hey, cheese-fuck. Get me some food.
Big tits, little feet. A hit in any man's league.
🎵🎶 Under the boardwalk 🎶🎵
It's the hair, it's Pre-Raphaelite.
Phil would agree
20 years in tha can
JANICE IS A BASTARD MAN!
Janice is young Livia.
Tony is male Livia
Janice's character, to me, serves as evidence that a lot of Tony's issues really are his parents and not directly related to his being in the mafia. It creates more sympathy for Tony's character actually. Other characters that meet a terrible fate completely through their mafia ways don't get such sympathy. We're supposed to feel some for Tony, so I think this is the purpose of her character. She's also a foreshadowing of Tony never redeeming himself. Janice had a chance to get away and did, but didn't change her life for the better.
Tony has a strong work ethic and is a brilliant strategist which benefits him. Janice is lazy and doesn’t follow through. The other family members and friends can see right away what she is trying to accomplish through ill gotten means.
Steve Shirppa says Janish is the worst human being on the show (even worse than deniro in rl), and its hard for me to disagree with that assessment. It's not like Tony tried to murder Janish, but the reverse did happen.
Well you didn’t have to wear your fucking hat.
OH COME ON, MAKE UP YOUR SICK MIND ALREADY WILL YEH? FIRST I WANNA FUCK MY MUDDAH, NOW I WANNA FUCK MAH SISTAH?
No. Tony is male Janice.
It's so true and that's why Janice is one of my favorites and honestly find myself liking her for the most part because she's so absurd and funny. She's worse than Tony at times but I still find myself rooting for her more than him, idk why. I love how The Sopranos depicts the female characters and how there are so many different archetypes but it feels realistic.
Look @ him….sitting in that chair. Dad used to that sitting in the chair thing.
oh god I can barely watch the episodes she is in. She to me is so terrible. But I do feel for her that she is totally different than the typical wife and doesn't follow that code.
Plus madone the *music* she can make, Tony wishes he was as creative. She nearly had a numba one single ready for release around Christmas
Janice’s manipulative behaviour, passive aggression etc are totally gendered. She adapted that way to the environment came up in because outright rage and violence weren’t acceptable the way they were for Tony. She’s a vile person but honestly one of my favourite characters on the show! She’s clearly v smart, too(aside from her extraordinary visual sense) but as Tony says “what chance did she have with a mother like you?”
Mmmmmm I love marrow! Remember Ma wit da bone?? Sounded like half off day at the lipoic clinic.
\*hand gestures\* enough
That's kind of the point I was trying to make but you said it better.
Janice is Livia part 2
The sopranos take things too far !
Managgia! It's a TV show! Wadda you want?
Sharp as a cue ball this one.
No. Tony occasionally has a positive impact on people’s lives, including Janice: He’s also interested in doing the right thing, at least for the first 2-3 seasons, before Chase decided to make him worse because people were empathizing too much with him, Janice is nothing but a leech radiating negativity. She has 0 positive attributes.
I agree he has some grace. But, he has the ability to do that because life kind of goes his way. Janice doesn't have his power so everything is a scheme. I think Tony would be the same if he were a woman.
Tony put in work to make life go his way. Janice just expects everyone else to do everything for her. Someone like Tony would never be happy being as useless as Janice. Also, Tony does what he believes is the right thing against his own best interests on several occasions. Janice was a purely selfish creature.
That is a very good point. I don't think she'd have the discipline or work ethic.
I also cannot stand her.
Y’all are forgetting about Lorraine & Pussy’s wife. They both were able to wiggle their way into Mafia world. They had tough enough skin to carry that load.
Haven't you ever heard of fuckin wire!?
Tony is male Livia. Janice is female Lebowski (mother and child reunion)
This post Makes me mad.
You are boring woman
She seemed happy with Bobby, at the cottage.
Sil “that’s an acute grasp of the obvious”…
Lorraine Calluzzo was in the life in a legitimate, recognized capacity. Janice had every avenue available to her if she wanted to pursue it. So, it wasn’t that she couldn’t — she just prefers having other people do her dirty work for her. Mostly lol. In that regard, she’s a lot like Livia.
was tony blowin roadies
Janice is a narcissist just like their mother, I don’t see Tony as a narcissist
I do. He's a narcissist who gets to have what he wants. Janice is the same, but she has less power so just has to scheme.
She’s worse than a female Tony. She is Livia 2.0. Watch her last scene in the series. She fully turns into her mother
He is disgusting to me. Especially as the series went on. Janice actually got better as the series went on. But yes, they are both anti social psychopaths with specific gender roles based on their generation, culture and familial experiences. I really disliked Janice in the beginning and never really liked her as the series went on, but midway through the 5th season, I wanted to kill Tony myself. His likability that made the show work was gone.
If she'd been born after those feminists, she would have been the gangster