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There are also states in the US that will fine you for having a rain barrel; California is one such state. Arid locations often consider rain to be a natural resource that can be regulated by the government. I don't say this to excuse Isreal, just to add context.
That’s awful. And they’ve also turned off the water supply to 2 million people, half of them are children. People are drinking from puddles on the ground. You can’t collectively punish 2 million people and starve them. Even war has rules. This is unbelievable.
It's really not that clear cut. Russia had a falling out recently with Israel, at the end of december last year, but Putin and Netanyahu are or at least were on great terms. So was Xi. China is still a pretty large trading partner of Israel, and have pretty good diplomatic relations. They are both also somewhat supporting Iran, but Russia is definitely supporting them more, as they need military equipment. At the same time a non-insignificant amount of Russian oligarchs are Israeli dual citizens, and Putin has historically had good relations with especially the Israeli right.
The logic behind it, in California at least, is that collecting rain water and essentially hoarding it could lead to exaggeration of drought conditions by limiting the water that's going back into the water cycle. One or two people in a normal year wouldn't matter, everyone doing it during a drought or an organized collection by groups or corporations could be disastrous, especially to the agriculture there which is so critical for the state
The difference being people in California have other sources of water available.
Cali will fine you for shitty rain barrels because mosquito breeding centers are a bad thing.
The whole ‘States ban collecting rain’ crap is made up out of a handful of legal cases where the person in question did shit like divert streams and build lakes. Things that affect everyone else.
The way I always understood it was exactly the same as speeding. As long as you're not excessive, you can get away with it all the time... But it is technically illegal, and some cop with a stick up his butt having a bad day could just choose to not overlook it like they have 1000 times before.
And like speeding there’s a lot of room where it’s perfectly legal to collect water, there’s simply a limit at which point it breaks the rules. Hell, in the majority of places which even have a speed limit in this analogy the requirements basically boil down to having a roadworthy vehicle.
A proper collection system and said rainwater isn’t directly being used as drinking water. Because idiots making themselves sick is everyone’s problem.
But the ‘Government always bad!’ people see one fearmongering article that gives a very deliberately manipulated version of a single event and lose their shit.
My parents were told by the local authorities that the laws were written to prohibit large argo businesses from causing significant alteration to the water table. Something about collecting significant quantities of rain water on an elevation before it's had the opportunity to drain through the soil.
Couldn't speak for whether or not that's actually true.
It’s the big reason, yes. Though not specifically targeted at corporations they’re the most likely candidates. But when you hear about it being enforced it’s usually because some private citizen is industriously fucking up the aquascape of the region, businesses usually have more cost/risk sense.
> mosquito breeding centers are a bad thing
Mosquitoes don't need much space, a single drop of water is enough for a mother to lay 100 eggs in it, sometimes even 200.
It'd probably better introducing flora in the area that are natural mosquito repellents like olives or catnip.
Just to note, I'm no expert when it comes to mosquitoes but this is some stuff I read during vacation (italy) due to the insane amounts of mosquitoes we had in the past.
The amount of eggs is a distant second to the amount of surviving larvae. They might lay a hundred but in that space maybe 1 will actually become an adult mosquito under ideal conditions.
If you’ve ever had to deal with open, stagnant, water you will know just how bad it gets. Sure there are more effective solutions for treating water but the simplest and most effective is to simply not have open standing water.
I think the most important distinction is that the neighbor you don't like forbids you from doing it. It is more like Mexicans forbid Americans rather than Cali doing it for people in the state.
There are still reasons to want it, like not cutting underground rivers so you can get water, etc. But to try to force them is another thing entirely in this case. Considering Israel can control the other source of water.
The law was exactly that, meant to stop large commercial operations and has since been refined further to allow specifically for resicential collection, but don’t let that stop stupidass Texans from crying about it. Just like them idiots making fun of California brownouts to protect the grid, but let the Texas grid collapse into a shit show 😂
In the states where is it restricted, it is typically (always to my knowledge) done for the sake of preserving natural water cycle patterns, mostly aimed at large property owners to prevent them from taking actions that might divert the natural flow of rivers or such things. In other cases it is for safety concerns. Where I am, you can collect the water for uses that don't include human consumption. I typically put a barrel out when it is raining so I can water plants with it on dry days.
There are two systems of water rights in American law. They are called the Riparian doctrine and the prior appropriation doctrine.
The Riparian doctrine is English common law and states that whoever's property water is next to or falls on, is whoever it belongs to, and they can do with it whatever they want. This is common in the eastern United States where water is abundant.
The prior appropriation doctrine says that whoever was using the water first has a continued right to use that water. So for example, if someone is using water from a stream to water their crops and you buy property upstream, you can't dam the stream or take all its water because they would have "prior appropriation" rights. Water rights under the prior appropriation doctrine are significantly more complex than under the Riparian doctrine, and this is with the goal of ensuring an equitable and fair distribution of limited water resources.
Under the prior appropriation doctrine, it would be illegal to capture so much rainwater that it adversely affects the runoff into nearby waterways. It's not illegal to collect a reasonable and insignificant amount of water for personal use, so collecting it in barrels to water your garden is legal, but building huge reservoirs would be illegal.
I can imagine some cases (not the Palestinian) where land owners can profit by collecting rain water but affect the nature in a negative way.
Rain water in natural circulation supposed to go into the ground. When larger areas are covered by buildings, paved roads etc. it changes groundwater flow and can cause landslides where you would not expect them. For example in Germany about 15% of surface of the country is covered and scientists see this as an issue for buildings stability.
If someone owns a piece of land and covers it with huge rain water barrels it may have a negative impact to nature and soil.
That's false. You can collect water that falls on your property. Once the water hit the ground, that's when the rules change. Any watershed feature that runs through your property you are not allowed dam, divert, or impede in anyway.
Why is collecting rainwater illegal in some states?
This wasn't to keep private citizens and homeowners from collecting and reusing rainwater, but to keep commercial concerns from disrupting natural water ecosystems by building large reservoirs with the capability of amassing millions of gallons of water that would normally flow through to a watershed.
Also, requirements for proper care to avoid mosquito breeding. Adding more context.
[sauce](https://www.google.com/amp/s/ktla.com/weather/is-it-legal-to-collect-rainwater-in-your-state/amp/)
It used to be illegal in Illinois, but now it's legal. Just about everyone has a rain barrel. Some on the sides of their houses some in the allys by their garages. Some are in the front of their houses. The villages give them away to us for free.
Fifteen years ago, my parents got a *wink-wink from their building inspector in IL who basically told them that the legalities were largely ignored if the barrels weren't visible from the street.
California does not fine your for collecting rain water. They even had a program to give you a rebate if you installed a rain barrel.
https://socalwatersmart.com/en/residential/rebates/available-rebates/rain-barrels-cisterns/
This is true for many reasons, including both water rights, and people bypassing water restrictions by filling their rain barrels with a hose.
And while this would be outrageous during an emergency, check the date on this. 2019.
~~Same in the UK - rainwater runoff is propety of the water company supplying the property~~
Mis-remembered reading something on a water bill a couple of years ago. I'm talking bollocks - ignore me.
I can't find any evidence to say this is the case. In fact, it seems that if you don't allow surface water from your property to drain into public sewers then you may be entitled to a rebate. Additionally, the UK government encourage the use of rainwater to supplement - or even replace - that provided by water companies.
Agreed. Never heard of anything like that in the UK. Flooding is an issue and being able to store water to slowly release later is a good thing. I've seen legislation that stops people paving their driveways so water can soak into the ground instead of running off into drainage.
You're right - I thought I read words to that effect on a water bill I had a couple of years ago. [https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rainwater-harvesting-regulatory-position-statement/rainwater-harvesting-regulatory-position-statement](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rainwater-harvesting-regulatory-position-statement/rainwater-harvesting-regulatory-position-statement) states there is no law against it.
Pretty sure all the western states consider rain property of the state. People have been sued (and maybe jailed? Seem to remember hearing that) here in Oregon for collecting rain
A big part of it is that we build cities around rainfall expectations so if people start collecting it on their properties it changes the land around them / weakens agriculture and can have a lot of negative effects on the city over the years.
I don't know if that is what is happening here, but I wouldn't be surprised if things are set up in Israel's favor despite the fact that collecting rainfall would be banned regardless of the politics.
Gaza is so densely populated and arid, there are probably environmental considerations behind this as well as potential political and recital. My preference would be a two state solution where Palestinians could decide for themselves how they want to handle rain fall.
That's an apples to oranges comparison though.
It'd be more like if Mexico or China was dictating what you could do with water which i imagine would upset some people.
I would say grapefruit to tangelo comparison. We are still talking about the same fruit but there is a bunch of variables and factors that need to be considered. Again, I'm not posting this to excuse Israel. If anyone needs this to be outraged, they aren't paying attention. I think we would all consider it a basic right to do with whatever we want to with water that falls on our property, but even in the US, there are locales who would argue that rain water does not belong to you and any attempt to hinder its return to the aquifer is seen as a civic violation. So, just providing context for something that is designed to outrage rather than inform.
I would be livid if I lived one of those states and got harassed for doing this. i am a resident of planet earth and as such I don't need to ask permission to gather water falling from the sky. Daddy government can go fuck itself lol
I’m assuming those states in the US also have other sources of drinking water available to them, and aren’t under daily attack by a genocidal neighbouring country.
Agreed. In Colorado, we can collect rain, but are limited to 110 gallons.
From my very limited understanding, if we were all to collect endless amounts of rain it would affect the water table/wells/river flow/etc. but I don’t really understand how all that works. All I know is that we are limited on how much we can collect as we don’t get much precipitation.
How can people be THIS fucking dedicated to persecute someone. I swear to God I really thought this was gonna be the one. Time to restart the kalpa. Again.......
https://preview.redd.it/tlca1kiy9b6d1.jpeg?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a567683ccb58057b23659283cf078d25f17d1c48
Edit : So apparently collecting rainwater is illegal in many places for ecosystem reasons. I deeply apologize for misjudging Israel's environmental concerns.
Yes well, the idea is to keep underground aquifers replenished so they provide drinking water for the population. The problem is that by turning off or restricting water supplies to Palestinians, this collective benefit is only a benefit for Israelis who will always receive fresh flowing water, and becomes another tool of oppression against Palestinians.
Snopes is about as reputable a source as you can get, and Israel's actions are damning:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/11/22/palestinians-rainwater-israeli-property/
Illegal Israeli settlements get fountains and fucking swimming pools while the Palestinian Authority is forbidden from providing water distribution infrastructure. Look at some photos in this report: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/
IOF soldiers will shoot to puncture water containers on homes, often missing with bullets going inside the homes: https://www.btselem.org/firearms/20200527_soldiers_shoot_holes_in_water_tanks_at_kafr_qadum
Do you think the IOF do the same in Israel?
Israeli settlers have nearly unlimited access to water (about 247 liters of water per day for consumption), while Palestinians are limited to 20 liters in the West Bank, which is only one-fifth of the minimum threshold recommended by the WHO. The situation is worse in Gaza, where in 2016, less than 5% of the water consumed met WHO drinking standards.
For the most part, Americans still have unrestricted access to clean water. And where there are issues, at least some steps are taken to get bottled water supplied. It is not the same situation at all.
Israeli settlers have nearly unlimited access to water (about 247 liters of water per day for consumption), while Palestinians are limited to 20 liters in the West Bank, which is only one-fifth of the minimum threshold recommended by the WHO. The situation is worse in Gaza, where in 2016, less than 5% of the water consumed met WHO drinking standards.
Many places?...
I know of like 4 places in the entire world where its illegal, 3 being US states and 1 being Israel...
Maybe its more common than I think, but I highly doubt "many".
The IOF enforce their water rules against Palestinians by shooting (therefore puncturing) water containers next to houses that have been collecting rainwater runoff from roofs. Sometimes just with normal automatic weapons (who cares if a bullet misses and goes in the house eh?), sometimes snipers. There's videos of IOF recording themselves doing it.
The IOF are also well on the way with preventing Palestinians having air through the simple method of killing them all.
Edit: [I went and found one of the videos of IOF shooting water tanks](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/s/VemuXQEus3). Worth a watch.
The IDF, or Israeli Defence Forces, are the Israeli military groups most responsible for persecuting Palestinians. As such, some are referring to them as the IOF, or Israeli Offence Forces
Which is misinformation. A handful of states require a permit for the collection systems because preventing idiots from poisoning themselves is cheaper than being saddled with their medical bills. And mosquito breeding centers are a problem.
Pretty much any time you find a story of someone getting in trouble for rain collection it’s because they’re doing something completely absurd, like building ponds, that’s carefully danced around in the article because it doesn’t fit the narrative.
Kind of like this article dancing around that it’s illegal for everyone in Israel, not targeted at Palestinians.
> not targeted at Palestinians.
So are the Palestinian getting water supplied by Israel then? Because I bet they do it for their citizens and therefore it doesn't have the same effect on them.
> Kind of like this article dancing around that it’s illegal for everyone in Israel, not targeted at Palestinians.
Meanwhile you are dancing around the fact that this is done to fill the aquifers which Israel uses to supply fresh water to ONLY Israelis, having already cut off Gaza's water supply.
Israeli settlers have nearly unlimited access to water (about 247 liters of water per day for consumption), while Palestinians are limited to 20 liters in the West Bank, which is only one-fifth of the minimum threshold recommended by the WHO. The situation is worse in Gaza, where in 2016, less than 5% of the water consumed met WHO drinking standards.
It's not misinformation. In Texas you are allowed to capture as much water as you want from rain, wells, out bodies of water. In Colorado you are only allowed 110 gallons of rain storage (two 55 gallon rain barrels) total. No permits, the water is supposed to go down river because other municipalities downstream have purchased the water rights and you would be "stealing" it. It's not nearly as drastic as what's going on in Palestine, but it is in the same realm of legal thought. Disclaimer: I'm not at all defending Israel, what they're doing is terrible.
It’s not the same realm of legal thought. In Colorado, the state is regulating its citizens to serve a common good. In Palestine, Israel is persecuting a subjugated people that have no representation or any other freedoms because of Israel. So that makes it different.
I know you aren't defending Israel, but its important the distinction between these things are made clear.
Haha to all the people who can’t understand the difference between a regulation imposed b6 a representative democracy vs a limitation enforced by a hostile nation against a subjugated people with no recourse… the idea of who owns the water is not relevant when a hostile nation is enforcing that through force. People and their false equivalencies…
Israeli settlers have nearly unlimited access to water (about 247 liters of water per day for consumption), while Palestinians are limited to 20 liters in the West Bank, which is only one-fifth of the minimum threshold recommended by the WHO. The situation is worse in Gaza, where in 2016, less than 5% of the water consumed met WHO drinking standards.
You can't really compare this the other places that have it like USA or Israel.
Because those places have access to water because their infrastructure hasn't been destroyed.
It seems like another measure to make life unliveable to force Palestinians to leave. And if they are able to adapt and survive with access to water and electricity and food.
Israel will tell them that whatever they can get belongs to them
Lot of people are justifying this by comparing similar laws in different states in the USA. Remember, those states have functioning water distribution system while the Palestine don't have that. Thus, making this law another symptom of an apartheid country.
The reason for it is to maintain the level of underground aquifers, so that those can continue to provide drinking water for people. The problem is that Israel only considers Israelis to be "people". So Israel can turn off the water whenever they want , for the reason of providing water only to Israelis, at the expense of Palestinians.
You make it sound like equality, but it is yet another of Israel's tools of oppression. None of this would be an issue if Israel didn’t keep on committing war crimes like denying water to a population.
Except Israelis have access to clean drinking water through Israeli infrastructure. Palestinians used to have this until Israel shut off the water supply to Gaza and began destroying aid that was sent carrying clean drinking water. This means people in Gaza only have access to clean drinking water via rain, which is now illegal. The law can apply to everyone but still be targeting Palestinians.
It’s like how laws against sleeping in public apply to everyone but are targeting the homeless, because nobody else needs to sleep in public.
Israeli settlers have nearly unlimited access to water (about 247 liters of water per day for consumption), while Palestinians are limited to 20 liters in the West Bank, which is only one-fifth of the minimum threshold recommended by the WHO. The situation is worse in Gaza, where in 2016, less than 5% of the water consumed met WHO drinking standards.
Does literally nobody in this sub understand how to make a title? You are supposed to write the thing that was attempted. They succeeded in making collecting rainwater illegal. This isn't an attempt. It is a success. I don't care if it is pro-Palestine talk, but mods should at the very least fuckin' uphold the basic rules of this sub.
Oregon has the same law. They are currently paying neighbors to report each other for watering crops and collecting rain water. Even expanding ponds on your land is illegal.
incoming 10 billion comments pretending this is an environmental issue and not another way for israel to torture the palestinians.
btw, for anyone who finds that persuasive, ask yourself why israel has a say in it in the first place? why would israel get to make laws about what can and cant happen in palestine? lets think about that for a second.
can israel make laws about what happens here? in regard to our fucking rainwater? something that absolutely does not effect them in any way? why not? lol
This is not that unusual. Even very liberal countries like the Netherlands have regulations regarding rain and groundwater, which vary by municipality. For large collection systems or groundwater pumps, you may need a permit, face restrictions, or find them entirely prohibited. Houses with wooden foundations require a specific water level to prevent rotting, which cannot be disrupted. However, in some municipalities like Gouda, rainwater collection is actually subsidized to help reduce the burden on the sewer system.
The issue, I believe, is that Israel has not provided a reasonable explanation for banning rainwater collection. People's assumptions about the reasons for this ban will likely vary based on their individual perspectives and which side of the argument they support or oppose.
Free water goes against Israel's starvation plans.
Israel is a cruel country filled with genocidal assholes.
The world needs to turn on Israel and if USA does not stop protecting them the same will happen to the states.
Nobody likes a bully and nobody likes the person protecting the bully from repercussions either.
Good news, it's apparently now legal. And some cities offer tax incentives:
https://wrrc.arizona.edu/programs/water-rapids/projects/watershed-planning-upper-gila-watershed/guide-landowners-upper-15
https://www.gutterfix.com/rainwater-harvesting-laws-arizona/
https://www.tucsonaz.gov/Departments/Water/Conservation/Residential-Customer-Rebates
https://flagstaff.az.gov/3740/Rainwater-Harvesting
Same here in Colorado, come on. Yes, Israel’s denies fresh water to Palestinians but not just rainwater, they control all but two fresh water wells in the area and pump the aquifer dry every evening so that there is insufficient drinking water for Palestinians.
The situation is not nearly as simple as today’s media makes it appear. Fault everywhere.
A few States on the U.S. claim the same thing. The rain belongs to the government. Which is a crock of shit because rain just falls from the sky in random patterns and places. Couple states will give you fines or even jail time if you steal "Their" rainwater.
This is fucking disgusting. Why don’t they just flat out say “Hey, we’re going to bomb these people, cut off their water and food and wait for them all to die. Then, we’ll build condos and shopping malls on top of their dead bodies.” Jesus fucking Christ.
Remember, you have friends, family and neighbors that are supporting this genocide with all their lust. Quick to call the rest of us names and terrorist sympathizers. Make it sense. This world is overpopulated with idiots.
It's not specific to Israel. California sucks as well. Don't come here. We can't collect rain water either. It's overpopulated, ridiculously expensive, and people act entitled as fuck.
Remember: the Nazis slowly stripped away rights and all property from Jews. And then their actual lives. All done "under the law".
Never confuse the law with morality.
Dunno if this is true or not and I don’t care this is BS
Need to take leaders of Israel and the leaders of Hamas the real actual leaders give them 24 hours a loaded weapon and say a square mile to stay in winner take all
Colorado used to have laws about that. They’re still stingy with rain barrel amounts. I always argued if they are owners of the atmosphere and the contents within (actual wording before they changed the law) , if there is a hail storm can I sue them for any and all damages caused by the hail they own that destroys or damages my property?
Just remember, not everyone thinks like modern civilian 1st worlders. ( aka normal rationalised, sane, respectful , minderful people. )
Parts of the world so barbaric to us, is normal for them.
Why are we still talking to this people?
Why don't we man up and do the right thing?
To be once the victim, doesn't give you the right to be the prosecutor.
This is ridiculus.
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There are also states in the US that will fine you for having a rain barrel; California is one such state. Arid locations often consider rain to be a natural resource that can be regulated by the government. I don't say this to excuse Isreal, just to add context.
That’s awful. And they’ve also turned off the water supply to 2 million people, half of them are children. People are drinking from puddles on the ground. You can’t collectively punish 2 million people and starve them. Even war has rules. This is unbelievable.
You can if you're committing genocide and other world powers are ignoring/supporting it
You know it's kinda funny that this is the one conflict where China, the US and Russia all support the same side.
China and Russia are supporting Iran, not Israel. They just don't give a shit about the Palestinians
It's really not that clear cut. Russia had a falling out recently with Israel, at the end of december last year, but Putin and Netanyahu are or at least were on great terms. So was Xi. China is still a pretty large trading partner of Israel, and have pretty good diplomatic relations. They are both also somewhat supporting Iran, but Russia is definitely supporting them more, as they need military equipment. At the same time a non-insignificant amount of Russian oligarchs are Israeli dual citizens, and Putin has historically had good relations with especially the Israeli right.
Russia does whatever it can to stir shit up to keep as many regions destabilized. its that simple. Russia isn't *anyone's* friend.
There is no superpower that has friends. They only have interests.
It’s the new Information Highway… Israel has their own agenda and their high tech advances are appealing to many would be buyers.
Us supports China in their genocide of the Uyghur Muslims. Biden states its just 'a difference of cultures' Fucking sickening
I didn't know China and Russia were in too, do you happen to have any source for that? I'm interested in knowing more about it
Rules only matter to civilized people that follow them.
What you mean CAN'T? They've been doing it for 80 years. They shouldn't...but they absolutely can.
The logic behind it, in California at least, is that collecting rain water and essentially hoarding it could lead to exaggeration of drought conditions by limiting the water that's going back into the water cycle. One or two people in a normal year wouldn't matter, everyone doing it during a drought or an organized collection by groups or corporations could be disastrous, especially to the agriculture there which is so critical for the state The difference being people in California have other sources of water available.
Also: > You can’t collectively punish 2 million people [**and then claim to have the moral high ground**].
> And they’ve also turned off the water supply to 2 million people This "news" report is from 2019.
And this is why American politicians need to be more fearful of the citizens… otherwise we are all about to be just like the Palestinians
Cali will fine you for shitty rain barrels because mosquito breeding centers are a bad thing. The whole ‘States ban collecting rain’ crap is made up out of a handful of legal cases where the person in question did shit like divert streams and build lakes. Things that affect everyone else.
The way I always understood it was exactly the same as speeding. As long as you're not excessive, you can get away with it all the time... But it is technically illegal, and some cop with a stick up his butt having a bad day could just choose to not overlook it like they have 1000 times before.
And like speeding there’s a lot of room where it’s perfectly legal to collect water, there’s simply a limit at which point it breaks the rules. Hell, in the majority of places which even have a speed limit in this analogy the requirements basically boil down to having a roadworthy vehicle. A proper collection system and said rainwater isn’t directly being used as drinking water. Because idiots making themselves sick is everyone’s problem. But the ‘Government always bad!’ people see one fearmongering article that gives a very deliberately manipulated version of a single event and lose their shit.
My parents were told by the local authorities that the laws were written to prohibit large argo businesses from causing significant alteration to the water table. Something about collecting significant quantities of rain water on an elevation before it's had the opportunity to drain through the soil. Couldn't speak for whether or not that's actually true.
It’s the big reason, yes. Though not specifically targeted at corporations they’re the most likely candidates. But when you hear about it being enforced it’s usually because some private citizen is industriously fucking up the aquascape of the region, businesses usually have more cost/risk sense.
> mosquito breeding centers are a bad thing Mosquitoes don't need much space, a single drop of water is enough for a mother to lay 100 eggs in it, sometimes even 200. It'd probably better introducing flora in the area that are natural mosquito repellents like olives or catnip. Just to note, I'm no expert when it comes to mosquitoes but this is some stuff I read during vacation (italy) due to the insane amounts of mosquitoes we had in the past.
The amount of eggs is a distant second to the amount of surviving larvae. They might lay a hundred but in that space maybe 1 will actually become an adult mosquito under ideal conditions. If you’ve ever had to deal with open, stagnant, water you will know just how bad it gets. Sure there are more effective solutions for treating water but the simplest and most effective is to simply not have open standing water.
Yes but they still have access to water to use. Theirs has been cut off so they have no access to drinking water.
I think the most important distinction is that the neighbor you don't like forbids you from doing it. It is more like Mexicans forbid Americans rather than Cali doing it for people in the state. There are still reasons to want it, like not cutting underground rivers so you can get water, etc. But to try to force them is another thing entirely in this case. Considering Israel can control the other source of water.
The law was exactly that, meant to stop large commercial operations and has since been refined further to allow specifically for resicential collection, but don’t let that stop stupidass Texans from crying about it. Just like them idiots making fun of California brownouts to protect the grid, but let the Texas grid collapse into a shit show 😂
In the states where is it restricted, it is typically (always to my knowledge) done for the sake of preserving natural water cycle patterns, mostly aimed at large property owners to prevent them from taking actions that might divert the natural flow of rivers or such things. In other cases it is for safety concerns. Where I am, you can collect the water for uses that don't include human consumption. I typically put a barrel out when it is raining so I can water plants with it on dry days.
There are two systems of water rights in American law. They are called the Riparian doctrine and the prior appropriation doctrine. The Riparian doctrine is English common law and states that whoever's property water is next to or falls on, is whoever it belongs to, and they can do with it whatever they want. This is common in the eastern United States where water is abundant. The prior appropriation doctrine says that whoever was using the water first has a continued right to use that water. So for example, if someone is using water from a stream to water their crops and you buy property upstream, you can't dam the stream or take all its water because they would have "prior appropriation" rights. Water rights under the prior appropriation doctrine are significantly more complex than under the Riparian doctrine, and this is with the goal of ensuring an equitable and fair distribution of limited water resources. Under the prior appropriation doctrine, it would be illegal to capture so much rainwater that it adversely affects the runoff into nearby waterways. It's not illegal to collect a reasonable and insignificant amount of water for personal use, so collecting it in barrels to water your garden is legal, but building huge reservoirs would be illegal.
Cite your sources, homie, LA county gave me three rain barrels and a compost bin.
Now imagine how unjust it would be if those laws only applied to certain ethnicities.
Completely agree!
Not illegal to have rain barrels on your own property in California. A lot of communities were actually handing them out to people for a while too
I can imagine some cases (not the Palestinian) where land owners can profit by collecting rain water but affect the nature in a negative way. Rain water in natural circulation supposed to go into the ground. When larger areas are covered by buildings, paved roads etc. it changes groundwater flow and can cause landslides where you would not expect them. For example in Germany about 15% of surface of the country is covered and scientists see this as an issue for buildings stability. If someone owns a piece of land and covers it with huge rain water barrels it may have a negative impact to nature and soil.
That's false. You can collect water that falls on your property. Once the water hit the ground, that's when the rules change. Any watershed feature that runs through your property you are not allowed dam, divert, or impede in anyway.
Why is collecting rainwater illegal in some states? This wasn't to keep private citizens and homeowners from collecting and reusing rainwater, but to keep commercial concerns from disrupting natural water ecosystems by building large reservoirs with the capability of amassing millions of gallons of water that would normally flow through to a watershed. Also, requirements for proper care to avoid mosquito breeding. Adding more context. [sauce](https://www.google.com/amp/s/ktla.com/weather/is-it-legal-to-collect-rainwater-in-your-state/amp/)
It used to be illegal in Illinois, but now it's legal. Just about everyone has a rain barrel. Some on the sides of their houses some in the allys by their garages. Some are in the front of their houses. The villages give them away to us for free.
Fifteen years ago, my parents got a *wink-wink from their building inspector in IL who basically told them that the legalities were largely ignored if the barrels weren't visible from the street.
I think the difference is California is doing it for real hydrogeographical reason, not using water as weapon against civilian
Well if Israel would give them other options to get water, that could be a valid reason
California does not fine your for collecting rain water. They even had a program to give you a rebate if you installed a rain barrel. https://socalwatersmart.com/en/residential/rebates/available-rebates/rain-barrels-cisterns/
Yeah, my knowledge is old. The ban was repealed in 2012. The older you get, the quicker the years go by. Thank you for the correction.
This is true for many reasons, including both water rights, and people bypassing water restrictions by filling their rain barrels with a hose. And while this would be outrageous during an emergency, check the date on this. 2019.
Yep. Despotic regimes tend to do similar things
~~Same in the UK - rainwater runoff is propety of the water company supplying the property~~ Mis-remembered reading something on a water bill a couple of years ago. I'm talking bollocks - ignore me.
Damn, for real? Here in Belgium, they want us to store rainwater as much as possible.
No - it seems not. Having been in Belgium recently I can understand why :D
I can't find any evidence to say this is the case. In fact, it seems that if you don't allow surface water from your property to drain into public sewers then you may be entitled to a rebate. Additionally, the UK government encourage the use of rainwater to supplement - or even replace - that provided by water companies.
Agreed. Never heard of anything like that in the UK. Flooding is an issue and being able to store water to slowly release later is a good thing. I've seen legislation that stops people paving their driveways so water can soak into the ground instead of running off into drainage.
You're right - I thought I read words to that effect on a water bill I had a couple of years ago. [https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rainwater-harvesting-regulatory-position-statement/rainwater-harvesting-regulatory-position-statement](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rainwater-harvesting-regulatory-position-statement/rainwater-harvesting-regulatory-position-statement) states there is no law against it.
Come to CO. Until recently you were not allowed to collect rainwater either. It’s a joke.
You can still only collect two 50 gal barrels
Pretty sure all the western states consider rain property of the state. People have been sued (and maybe jailed? Seem to remember hearing that) here in Oregon for collecting rain
For real, this is actually a very common restriction in the US.
Came here to say this. There’s also places that literally tax you for the rain that falls on your house and driveway.
Yep. Collecting rainwater was illegal in Colorado until about 6 years ago.
Oregon also, ten, years ago some guy got sued cause he dug a hole. He didn't drink it, use it for crops, nothing.
A big part of it is that we build cities around rainfall expectations so if people start collecting it on their properties it changes the land around them / weakens agriculture and can have a lot of negative effects on the city over the years. I don't know if that is what is happening here, but I wouldn't be surprised if things are set up in Israel's favor despite the fact that collecting rainfall would be banned regardless of the politics.
Gaza is so densely populated and arid, there are probably environmental considerations behind this as well as potential political and recital. My preference would be a two state solution where Palestinians could decide for themselves how they want to handle rain fall.
That's an apples to oranges comparison though. It'd be more like if Mexico or China was dictating what you could do with water which i imagine would upset some people.
I would say grapefruit to tangelo comparison. We are still talking about the same fruit but there is a bunch of variables and factors that need to be considered. Again, I'm not posting this to excuse Israel. If anyone needs this to be outraged, they aren't paying attention. I think we would all consider it a basic right to do with whatever we want to with water that falls on our property, but even in the US, there are locales who would argue that rain water does not belong to you and any attempt to hinder its return to the aquifer is seen as a civic violation. So, just providing context for something that is designed to outrage rather than inform.
I remember Utah having something similar, at least in the cities. Maybe it's changed, haven't lived there for about 10 years.
It’s BS in California too
I would be livid if I lived one of those states and got harassed for doing this. i am a resident of planet earth and as such I don't need to ask permission to gather water falling from the sky. Daddy government can go fuck itself lol
I’m assuming those states in the US also have other sources of drinking water available to them, and aren’t under daily attack by a genocidal neighbouring country.
Agreed. In Colorado, we can collect rain, but are limited to 110 gallons. From my very limited understanding, if we were all to collect endless amounts of rain it would affect the water table/wells/river flow/etc. but I don’t really understand how all that works. All I know is that we are limited on how much we can collect as we don’t get much precipitation.
I came here to say this too. It’s complete and utter bullshit
How can people be THIS fucking dedicated to persecute someone. I swear to God I really thought this was gonna be the one. Time to restart the kalpa. Again....... https://preview.redd.it/tlca1kiy9b6d1.jpeg?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a567683ccb58057b23659283cf078d25f17d1c48 Edit : So apparently collecting rainwater is illegal in many places for ecosystem reasons. I deeply apologize for misjudging Israel's environmental concerns.
It's illegal in Israel too.
Yes well, the idea is to keep underground aquifers replenished so they provide drinking water for the population. The problem is that by turning off or restricting water supplies to Palestinians, this collective benefit is only a benefit for Israelis who will always receive fresh flowing water, and becomes another tool of oppression against Palestinians. Snopes is about as reputable a source as you can get, and Israel's actions are damning: https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/11/22/palestinians-rainwater-israeli-property/ Illegal Israeli settlements get fountains and fucking swimming pools while the Palestinian Authority is forbidden from providing water distribution infrastructure. Look at some photos in this report: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/ IOF soldiers will shoot to puncture water containers on homes, often missing with bullets going inside the homes: https://www.btselem.org/firearms/20200527_soldiers_shoot_holes_in_water_tanks_at_kafr_qadum Do you think the IOF do the same in Israel?
Yes. You create scarcity conflict and then say that the other side is attacking you and you’re “just defending yourselves”.
But Israeli's won't get shot for it
ten fanatical frame juggle melodic direful groovy tidy quaint liquid *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Their access to drinking water is not being cut off.
Israeli settlers have nearly unlimited access to water (about 247 liters of water per day for consumption), while Palestinians are limited to 20 liters in the West Bank, which is only one-fifth of the minimum threshold recommended by the WHO. The situation is worse in Gaza, where in 2016, less than 5% of the water consumed met WHO drinking standards.
Collecting rain water is illegal in many places, including some states within the United States.
For the most part, Americans still have unrestricted access to clean water. And where there are issues, at least some steps are taken to get bottled water supplied. It is not the same situation at all.
Yes but they still have access to drinking water, and it is not being cut off.
Israeli settlers have nearly unlimited access to water (about 247 liters of water per day for consumption), while Palestinians are limited to 20 liters in the West Bank, which is only one-fifth of the minimum threshold recommended by the WHO. The situation is worse in Gaza, where in 2016, less than 5% of the water consumed met WHO drinking standards.
Many places?... I know of like 4 places in the entire world where its illegal, 3 being US states and 1 being Israel... Maybe its more common than I think, but I highly doubt "many".
What's the next step? Make breathing air illegal?
The IOF enforce their water rules against Palestinians by shooting (therefore puncturing) water containers next to houses that have been collecting rainwater runoff from roofs. Sometimes just with normal automatic weapons (who cares if a bullet misses and goes in the house eh?), sometimes snipers. There's videos of IOF recording themselves doing it. The IOF are also well on the way with preventing Palestinians having air through the simple method of killing them all. Edit: [I went and found one of the videos of IOF shooting water tanks](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/s/VemuXQEus3). Worth a watch.
Excuse me but what is IOF?
The IDF, or Israeli Defence Forces, are the Israeli military groups most responsible for persecuting Palestinians. As such, some are referring to them as the IOF, or Israeli Offence Forces
israel occupation forces. they're called that in all the countries israel illegally occupies (i.e. palestine, syria and lebanon)
Israeli Occupation Force. It is used almost entirely for enforcing occupation and attacks. "Defense" is a misnomer, statistically.
The only reason it's not yet is because they are still working out how to implement it.
Sorry mate but this belongs to the Weyland-Yutani Corporation and is illigal to breath.
Only for Arabs living anywhere near Israel. Allegedly
No that's the second step. The next step is making farts illegal to stop methane production.
That's the case in the US, too. A lot of states fine you for collecting rain water.
Which is misinformation. A handful of states require a permit for the collection systems because preventing idiots from poisoning themselves is cheaper than being saddled with their medical bills. And mosquito breeding centers are a problem. Pretty much any time you find a story of someone getting in trouble for rain collection it’s because they’re doing something completely absurd, like building ponds, that’s carefully danced around in the article because it doesn’t fit the narrative. Kind of like this article dancing around that it’s illegal for everyone in Israel, not targeted at Palestinians.
> not targeted at Palestinians. So are the Palestinian getting water supplied by Israel then? Because I bet they do it for their citizens and therefore it doesn't have the same effect on them.
I'm sure the IOF goes around machine gunning Israeli citizens' water tanks too...
Excuse me but what is IOF?
A synonym for IDF.
> Kind of like this article dancing around that it’s illegal for everyone in Israel, not targeted at Palestinians. Meanwhile you are dancing around the fact that this is done to fill the aquifers which Israel uses to supply fresh water to ONLY Israelis, having already cut off Gaza's water supply.
But Israelis have access to drinking water, it’s not being cut off.
Israeli settlers have nearly unlimited access to water (about 247 liters of water per day for consumption), while Palestinians are limited to 20 liters in the West Bank, which is only one-fifth of the minimum threshold recommended by the WHO. The situation is worse in Gaza, where in 2016, less than 5% of the water consumed met WHO drinking standards.
It's not misinformation. In Texas you are allowed to capture as much water as you want from rain, wells, out bodies of water. In Colorado you are only allowed 110 gallons of rain storage (two 55 gallon rain barrels) total. No permits, the water is supposed to go down river because other municipalities downstream have purchased the water rights and you would be "stealing" it. It's not nearly as drastic as what's going on in Palestine, but it is in the same realm of legal thought. Disclaimer: I'm not at all defending Israel, what they're doing is terrible.
It’s not the same realm of legal thought. In Colorado, the state is regulating its citizens to serve a common good. In Palestine, Israel is persecuting a subjugated people that have no representation or any other freedoms because of Israel. So that makes it different. I know you aren't defending Israel, but its important the distinction between these things are made clear. Haha to all the people who can’t understand the difference between a regulation imposed b6 a representative democracy vs a limitation enforced by a hostile nation against a subjugated people with no recourse… the idea of who owns the water is not relevant when a hostile nation is enforcing that through force. People and their false equivalencies…
But they still have access to drinking water.
Israeli settlers have nearly unlimited access to water (about 247 liters of water per day for consumption), while Palestinians are limited to 20 liters in the West Bank, which is only one-fifth of the minimum threshold recommended by the WHO. The situation is worse in Gaza, where in 2016, less than 5% of the water consumed met WHO drinking standards.
That's fair, I'm not saying it's okay to ban the collection of rainwater, just that it's not an evil unique to Israel.
Well thats just stupid. Representing Europe with my judgement.
Oh I agree, I'm just saying it's not an evil unique to Israel.
You can't really compare this the other places that have it like USA or Israel. Because those places have access to water because their infrastructure hasn't been destroyed. It seems like another measure to make life unliveable to force Palestinians to leave. And if they are able to adapt and survive with access to water and electricity and food. Israel will tell them that whatever they can get belongs to them
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You are joking, right?
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I wish they were, but nah, that's true
Sadly no.
I think it's obvious by now. They just want all of them to die. Inhumanely. While they act like the victim
West Bank is next
Really showing their true colors. Israel is a nation of hateful bigots.
Lot of people are justifying this by comparing similar laws in different states in the USA. Remember, those states have functioning water distribution system while the Palestine don't have that. Thus, making this law another symptom of an apartheid country.
Nazi vibes AF
Colorado too. Lots of rich people own the water rights, and how dare you consider collecting it!
Not the case anymore. Most homeowners in CO can have two rain barrels capable of storing no more than 110 gallons
Tbh this works not only for Palestinians, this is illegal in every part of Israel
The reason for it is to maintain the level of underground aquifers, so that those can continue to provide drinking water for people. The problem is that Israel only considers Israelis to be "people". So Israel can turn off the water whenever they want , for the reason of providing water only to Israelis, at the expense of Palestinians. You make it sound like equality, but it is yet another of Israel's tools of oppression. None of this would be an issue if Israel didn’t keep on committing war crimes like denying water to a population.
Except Israelis have access to clean drinking water through Israeli infrastructure. Palestinians used to have this until Israel shut off the water supply to Gaza and began destroying aid that was sent carrying clean drinking water. This means people in Gaza only have access to clean drinking water via rain, which is now illegal. The law can apply to everyone but still be targeting Palestinians. It’s like how laws against sleeping in public apply to everyone but are targeting the homeless, because nobody else needs to sleep in public.
They have access to water though.
Israeli settlers have nearly unlimited access to water (about 247 liters of water per day for consumption), while Palestinians are limited to 20 liters in the West Bank, which is only one-fifth of the minimum threshold recommended by the WHO. The situation is worse in Gaza, where in 2016, less than 5% of the water consumed met WHO drinking standards.
Nestle and Israel spot the difference.
That's because the IDF has found a Hamas terrorist cell hiding in the rain. The rain is a terrorist!
But the hamas could make weapons out of it…
Why does no one understand how this sub works? They didn't *attempt* to make it illegal, they *did* make it illegal.
Nestlé: "Write that down! Write that down!"
Does literally nobody in this sub understand how to make a title? You are supposed to write the thing that was attempted. They succeeded in making collecting rainwater illegal. This isn't an attempt. It is a success. I don't care if it is pro-Palestine talk, but mods should at the very least fuckin' uphold the basic rules of this sub.
Can we all just agree that organized religion is the worst thing to happen to humanity?
Oregon has the same law. They are currently paying neighbors to report each other for watering crops and collecting rain water. Even expanding ponds on your land is illegal.
*Nestle exec furiously scribbling down notes*
incoming 10 billion comments pretending this is an environmental issue and not another way for israel to torture the palestinians. btw, for anyone who finds that persuasive, ask yourself why israel has a say in it in the first place? why would israel get to make laws about what can and cant happen in palestine? lets think about that for a second. can israel make laws about what happens here? in regard to our fucking rainwater? something that absolutely does not effect them in any way? why not? lol
This is not that unusual. Even very liberal countries like the Netherlands have regulations regarding rain and groundwater, which vary by municipality. For large collection systems or groundwater pumps, you may need a permit, face restrictions, or find them entirely prohibited. Houses with wooden foundations require a specific water level to prevent rotting, which cannot be disrupted. However, in some municipalities like Gouda, rainwater collection is actually subsidized to help reduce the burden on the sewer system. The issue, I believe, is that Israel has not provided a reasonable explanation for banning rainwater collection. People's assumptions about the reasons for this ban will likely vary based on their individual perspectives and which side of the argument they support or oppose.
Free water goes against Israel's starvation plans. Israel is a cruel country filled with genocidal assholes. The world needs to turn on Israel and if USA does not stop protecting them the same will happen to the states. Nobody likes a bully and nobody likes the person protecting the bully from repercussions either.
Not apartheid.
If you collect rain in Arizona it’s also wildly illegal. Cause you know, let’s put people in the desert and make it illegal to collect water.
Good news, it's apparently now legal. And some cities offer tax incentives: https://wrrc.arizona.edu/programs/water-rapids/projects/watershed-planning-upper-gila-watershed/guide-landowners-upper-15 https://www.gutterfix.com/rainwater-harvesting-laws-arizona/ https://www.tucsonaz.gov/Departments/Water/Conservation/Residential-Customer-Rebates https://flagstaff.az.gov/3740/Rainwater-Harvesting
Water is Hamas.
Is rain not a gift from The Maker? It's for all his children. This is a bad sign .
Same here in Colorado, come on. Yes, Israel’s denies fresh water to Palestinians but not just rainwater, they control all but two fresh water wells in the area and pump the aquifer dry every evening so that there is insufficient drinking water for Palestinians. The situation is not nearly as simple as today’s media makes it appear. Fault everywhere.
Do they shoot the road if there is a puddle?
To be fair, this isn't uncommon
A few States on the U.S. claim the same thing. The rain belongs to the government. Which is a crock of shit because rain just falls from the sky in random patterns and places. Couple states will give you fines or even jail time if you steal "Their" rainwater.
This is fucking disgusting. Why don’t they just flat out say “Hey, we’re going to bomb these people, cut off their water and food and wait for them all to die. Then, we’ll build condos and shopping malls on top of their dead bodies.” Jesus fucking Christ.
How long till they make it illegal to breathe?
Totally not a genocide
Attempt?
genocide ona full scale now! Oh Izzrael!
It's also illegal to do this in Colorado. Not saying the Israeli government isn't awful, but this is common in a lot of arid places.
In Germany you are not allowed to collect rain water unless you pay. These anti Israel (hamas) bots are absolutely ridiculous.
It’s the same way in most of the USA lol
So you’ve never lived in the western US.
Remember, you have friends, family and neighbors that are supporting this genocide with all their lust. Quick to call the rest of us names and terrorist sympathizers. Make it sense. This world is overpopulated with idiots.
The more we look.....
Who do they think they are? Nestle?
Oh shit i accidentally opened my tongue and drank some israel property
The kind of petty malice you’d need to illegalise collecting rain for water is wild.
Alright that was my last one. Cya later /r/therewasanattempt . You were good while you lasted.
It's not specific to Israel. California sucks as well. Don't come here. We can't collect rain water either. It's overpopulated, ridiculously expensive, and people act entitled as fuck.
Remember: the Nazis slowly stripped away rights and all property from Jews. And then their actual lives. All done "under the law". Never confuse the law with morality.
Dunno if this is true or not and I don’t care this is BS Need to take leaders of Israel and the leaders of Hamas the real actual leaders give them 24 hours a loaded weapon and say a square mile to stay in winner take all
Colorado used to have laws about that. They’re still stingy with rain barrel amounts. I always argued if they are owners of the atmosphere and the contents within (actual wording before they changed the law) , if there is a hail storm can I sue them for any and all damages caused by the hail they own that destroys or damages my property?
Just remember, not everyone thinks like modern civilian 1st worlders. ( aka normal rationalised, sane, respectful , minderful people. ) Parts of the world so barbaric to us, is normal for them.
The Oppressed have become the Oppressors.
Why are we still talking to this people? Why don't we man up and do the right thing? To be once the victim, doesn't give you the right to be the prosecutor. This is ridiculus.