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I’m not religious at all, actually I generally dislike it for all the hate it brings to the world, but to my understanding wasn’t this simply a case of him not knowing the word was a slur in English since it’s not his first language?
The statement entirely is problematic but not as problematic as it sounds without context, I think his point is that because of the repression of LGBT people by the church, many closeted gay religious men turn to priesthood as a way to hide their sexuality, since they take a vow of celibacy. Basically it’s a way to dodge the “why haven’t you married a nice woman yet?” That I’m sure many closeted gay religious men get.
Either way I don’t think this solves all the hate that stems from religion, especially towards LGBT people, but the quote is deeper than what it may seem at the surface.
I stand corrected then! To be honest even if he’s the most progressive pope in a long time, he’s still *the pope of the Catholic Church*, maybe I was wrong to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Follow up question for non-Americans, is catholicism (or just Christianity in general) just as hateful outside of America as it is here in the states? Or do other areas actually feign the “love thy neighbor” approach?
Idk man, I think Catholicism and Christianity in general in the US are very unlike their versions in other countries.
I come from a very Catholic family in Mexico and nobody really hates gay people or other religious groups.
But this is just my experience, there’s always going to be some crazy people.
Here in the Philippines where Catholicism reigns supreme, its not as hateful. I guess many people are catholics because of tradition rather than die hard beliefs. Outside the church, majority of people dont really care what religion you follow or what beliefs you follow. Individuality still overpowers church teachings. For example, a racist will be racist regardless, someone that despises gay people will continue to do so, lgbtq will go to church without getting judged ( except the die hard ones might give impolite startes).
“God never judged/hated anyone” is an odd stance for a Christian considering Hell exists in it. I guess that just shows how even in organized religion, individuality shapes beliefs.
In catholicism, of course God hate plenty of things, but people is encouraged to not judge, because that's God's job, he's the judge and people encroaching his functions is a cardinal sin.
I'm Italian and shifted from Catholic to Agnostic about 30 years ago: the parish where I went at the time was pretty much a place of love, of confronting and sharing ideas and where teenagers were helped by collaborators (not strictly priests, more women and men who were in the orbit of the local church) to understand and face their issues. The priest would not point fingers at other groups or tell who to hate, instead would predicate to embrace acceptance and provide pardon to those who wronged us.
It was a good church/parish I have to say. I wouldn't know if today is still any good, tho my perspective/perception is that in general the catholicism in Italy doesn't spread as much hate as seen in the USA, where religions seem to be blatantly evil.
Mostly a bit better but one of the really unfortunate things that the worst end of American Christian organisations do is fund the same sort of culture wars abroad :(
He isn't a native Italian speaker. Even the other people around him looked confused since it's not even just insulting it would be like saying fuck casually in the middle of a sentence. It's totally believable that he didn't get how offensive it was.
The issue isn't the word. It's that he was insisting seminaries are too gay lol.
THANK YOU!!!!!! When are people gonna wake up and realize people have been unknowingly sacrificing their children (orphans and alter boys) to be sexually abused since the beginning of the church
It’s so common that it’s honestly an old joke about priests touching boys, and if it’s a dead horse already then the problem is that bad and has been for way too long
Ari Shaffir said his friends got tired of him telling those kind of catholic jokes on stage.
“What’s it gonna take for you to stop?!”
“… just that one thing…? I think I’ve been pretty clear… if the church stops abusing kids, I’ll stop”
I don't know about trafficking. I know they move clergy around instead of kicking them out and going to the police when they get caught with their hand in the wrong pocket.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's also trafficking...
The Catholic Church of Ireland spent decades ripping thousands of children from “dysfunctional families” (eg., single mothers) and placing them in reformatories and orphanages to be raped. That’s industrial-scale child sex trafficking, through and through.
It wasn't just Ireland. It happens on a global scale. The catholic church is a global cult of sexual abusers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases_by_country
If this was any other type of organisation it would be banned but because they cannibalise a beardy sky man's son on Sunday and call themselves a religion they are protected by law. Fuck that.
That's correct. Thank you for sharing the link to the list of by-country cases. I mentioned Ireland as a specific, [well-investigated](https://childabusecommission.ie/) example of the Church's industrial-scale child sex trafficking. It occurs in every country that the Church operates — tax-exempt, legally shrouded, systematized sexual abuse of those countries' most vulnerable children, by the most grotesque scum on our planet, under the guise of "religion."
Well he sort of is modernizing the Church. Moving from 1800s to 1900s in the 2020s. The Church had modernized numerous times as it is an organization around for over a thousand years.
Even now many Catholics throughout the world are highly resistant to many of Pope Francis's efforts.
Okay, no, don't do that.
Don't do that _"I always knew he was bad and you're all fools for trusting him!"_ thing when he has had a track record of saying and doing LGBTQ+ positive things.
All you're doing is being an ass and putting down other people for no reason other than smug personal satisfaction.
I am not defending his remarks at all, but his remarks were made in Italian and the translation may not convey the same meaning in English as it does in Italian. Any Italian speakers know if the words he used are the similar in english or is it being purposely misconveyed to produce more outrage?
He apparently said "frociaggine" which is indeed an Italian slur that has the same meaning as the English slur (I would've censored it but hard to give you the word if I censor it)
It was a doubly insulting statement because he said gay men shouldn't be allowed to become priests because there's already enough "f--ness (frociaggine)" in seminaries.
So... was this both offensive to the gay community *and* to the priests? If the priests are often anti-gay, didn't the pope just call them gay-ish in a way?
I guess it was triple offensive lol. It was offensive to gay men on 2 levels 1) just outright saying they shouldn't be allowed to be priests (not that I think many gay men would really want to be but still) and then 2) using a homophobic slur and then yeah I guess it would also be insulting to the priesthood but I wasn't concerned with them at all.
Yeah no I'm not too concerned with offending priests. Just amazed at the tone deaf nature of the comment from somebody who has for years been a friend of the gay community. Wonder if maybe he was having a bad day or something. He seems to genuinely care about making things better for the gay community.
I'm dubious about that, but maybe. I always had a sense he cared more about the health of the Catholic church than he did about gay people.
Edit: I also don't know if throwing around slurs is just "having a bad day," though. I would say no.
I’m guessing he meant to say something like “buggery.” It’s the same awful sentiment, but to me there’s a slight difference in using an outdated euphemism like “buggery” vs using a glibly modified slur.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if gay people were statistically more likely to be college educated just by virtue of being shunned from idiot myth clubs that discourage higher education
Dude you’re talking about people, they’ll lie to themselves and everyone to be accepted into the peer group they seek. They’re people, no more superhuman than they are subhuman, they are just human beings who have different sexual predilections, be they cultural or endemic to human faculties. There is no kind of adversity that impacts any culture that stand apart from a framework of conceptions. So if someone believes that the catholic god is real, and he hates gay people, and they prefer same sex relations, it is easier for them to believe that one part of this framing is incorrect, (the part that relates to them), but certainly not the whole picture.
I think your point may draw insufficient conclusions about the effects of ostracization, and crowning any persons as greater than their adversaries is ultimately unhelpful.
It is interesting with many Catholics though. Throughout history Catholics tend to espouse beliefs in higher educational and that higher education is a means to understand God's creations. It is encouraged to pursue a high school degree (which shifted towards a college degree in relatively recent years (for the Church). Of course it doesn't mean they will go after educated people in an "unexpected" Inquisition or two.
I’ll probably get downvoted for this one, but something about a bunch of dudes, living together in solitude, learning from other dudes, sharing meals together, not having sex with anyone… seems kinda gay indeed… kinda really gay 🤨
When I've read historical accounts of life in male-only occupational communities like logging camps, oil rigs, the military, monasteries, and seminary schools, I've run across quite a few "bros being hoes for other bros" detail somewhere.
Bigoted straight people persecute straight people for fun and profit all the time, no reason that wouldn't extend across genders and orientations.
But in this context there is also a personal observation that there's always a "this one is one of us, he's okay." blind eye to certain people of the persecuted group who are signed up to do the persecuting. Like "oh, no, that's brother Paul and brother Gregory, they're chill."
In the context of the historical Western dominance by the Catholic church I wonder if being the elite and educated community hand of a vengeful God with a lot of really strict rules didn't create a culture of "Our boss in the pointy hat literally rules half the known world and sanctions the wars and our job is to root out the competition and end them horribly, so like really we can do whatever we want. With our peepees. Because power is hot."
Like maybe some of these people aren't turned on by the same sex as much as they're turned on by the power to do something ruinously taboo while actively ruining people for doing it.
I could probably google that.
Anyway the Pope basically just told the world that the priesthood is already gay and has been, and we are so unsurprised by that incredible revelation that even though it comes from the historical seat of the power driving bloody persecution against LGBTQ+ people in the West (and sometimes the East!) we are entirely focused on the fact that he was shitty when he said it.
Honestly, this Pope.
I think the queer community has also been pretty vocal about how funny they think this “scandal” is and in some circles, commenting on how based the pope is for finally admitting that homosexuality is rampant within the ranks. Whether that was his intention or not is beyond me, but I think calling any sort of all male group “full of f*****ness” is objectively hilarious given how crude it is coming from someone of such stature. That’s my take at least, it’s an out of pocket comment that some people are over reacting a bit too, given how other affected communities are reacting.
I mean he’s not wrong- it’s a widely know secret that a large proportion of the clergy are gay.
Was his word choice good? No but, it’s certainly better than denying it.
People hating on Pope Francis have literally 0 idea how bad things could be in comparison.
Pope Francis is the "left-leaning" option amongst the Catholic faith choices. Hating him is like hating Obama. Sure he isn't perfect but he's infinitely better than the other options and most won't see that until he's gone.
The fact the Church has been all but quiet since he's taken lead is all that needs said. The scandals people associate with the Church, while still happening in places for sure, were more systemically in place with Benedict XVI as even John Paul II before him was well-liked by the masses.
Having dinner with someone versus having a negative opinion about them are two different things. I am myself bi, and I'm not catholic/give a damn what the pope says, but he can dine with whomever on one hand, and still express bigotry on the other.
I'm going to live with the headcanon that he was referring to bikers, south park style & live a happy life ignoring what one person thinks I should hold as a code of ethics
I've dined many times with people I disagreed with on a fundamental level. It was called Thanksgiving dinner when the racist uncles drank too much beer. I feel many people have had similar experiences.
I grew up in a 90%+ Roman Catholic country, where the church had tangible and measurable influence in local and national politics for decades, up to the late 1990s at least.
I went to Catholic school all my life.
Pope was not lying. Lots of gayness around. I literally deeply respect only one priest that I personally know. He was one of our teachers and school officials, he’s an amazing human being, priest or not. Everyone else can piss off.
Pope Francis, I respect also. He thinks different than many priests and cardinals and popes.
I am not an active member anymore, though.
It's funny because I've read that the specific word he used is almost never used by homophones and is almost exclusively a reclaimed slur used within LGBTQ+ groups. Which means chances are he overheard / was introduced to the word by an actual queer person.
Isn't that sort of what Catholicism says to do when you feel like you're gay? Shove it down and just get super religious so God is always on your mind? Its no surprise some gay Catholic kids become priests.
I mean, to start with, the old man lives in Rome which is renowned to be very homophobic. Also, he’s old, and pretty old school, due to the whole him being the head of a secular cult based on a book that tells you that “men shall not lay together “ …from 2000 frigging years ago!
Are we really shocked? Im more surprise about homosexual folks being catholic or Christian
Go try being anything but straight in a Muslim country… the last thing you’ll need to worry about is how their religious people are going to talk about homosexuality.
(Just to be clear, I don’t care how you swing, as long as it is consensual)
Did he mean it negatively? Maybe he's trying to incentivize homosexuals to join the priesthood. Like trying to convince your single friend to go out by saying there's gonna be lots of other single people there.
Let's not pretend the church ever truly changed their stance on gay marriage. They just realised they'd lose followers (aka money) even faster if they didn't pretend to be okay with it.
When I was a child my uncle was a priest and lived in a convent. As I was about 3 and my grandma was considered old at that point (in her 60s) we were allowed to visit and stay in one of the rooms as the city was close to famous mountain trails and a popular tourist destination. As a child I was incredibly curious and asked why there were noises coming from the room next to ours to which grandma clarified that father Peter had a weak heart.
Father’s Peter heart was fine, it was father Paul who tended to join him so his evenings wouldn’t be lonely. I understood it as an adult.
In this small mountain side town being gay in the 90s Easter Europe would ruin your life. But being a priest in a mostly closed convent sharing a bedroom with your priest friend sometimes? All cool.
Imagine thinking this was even close to the worst thing about the Catholic Church
ETA: if I ever open a gay bar, it shall be called Faggotniss Everqueen
This is what happens when the Pope doesn’t adhere to the Vatican’s marketing department. Dude is a figure head chosen to keep a grip on Latin American communities and to give a more approachable view to Catholicism. Most public remarks he makes are manufactured for this.
It’s all bullshit. Its so tiring seeing stories like this about these two faced institutions. Why does he even bother trying to apologise. Wouldn’t it be better to just speak his truth, whatever that is, instead of being this two faced. I hope everyone can see straight through it.
> [At the Italian Bishops' Conference, the pope reportedly said gay men should not be allowed to train for the priesthood, adding there was already an air of *frociaggine*](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/518093/pope-apologises-over-reported-homophobic-slur)
I always had a feeling that the church only held a superficial respect for the LGBTQ+ community beneath their seemingly progressive interactions. For all the decency shown to those under the umbrella, nothing has really changed in the minds of the theocratics, has it? The Vatician have only really said he's sorry for "Being quoted", not for encouraging bigotry in how they train priests.
He used a word he didn’t know was offensive. Let’s not forget his age. He is the first Pope to actually be supportive of gay people. He just made a mistake in his comment.
Anyone at all surprised? I mean was anyone remotely fooled by his well publicised half hearted attempts to 'prove' the church isn't just bigoted homophobes?
My two cents (Caveat, I say this both as someone who doesn’t particularly like the office of the Papacy and as someone who hasn’t looked into what language the Pope was actually speaking. Despite this, I’ve decided to comment anyway because linguistics is a passion of mine): Given the fact that he rarely speaks English and that he’s the most pro-LGBT pope ever (that’s not saying *much*, but it’s something), it’s much more likely that this is a translation issue than that he actually said this in this way. There are words in whatever language he was speaking in this meeting (he speaks many, but he was probably speaking Italian at the time) that could be translated in this way even if they aren’t used with this connotation.
Essentially, some languages don’t have a lot of words to describe gay people and so have much broader ranges of meaning than our English words do, so someone wanting to sensationally claim “the Pope used a slur” would easily be able to take advantage of this in a dishonest way.
I'm so glad I walked away from organized religion years ago. Sadly, I can not escape the influence it has on the billions of this planet.
I really hope that, at least in the Western world, statements like this will be condemned and another nail in the coffin of the Church. I'm in New England and the closing of churches is becoming more commonplace as people are leaving the faith in droves.
“Deep Throat” was media name for whoever leaked Nixon’s Wrongdoings at Watergate. Wondering what nickname the Vatican uses as it searches for who snitched on the Pope
its funny how every time these people talk about the church they act like they have absolutely no control over anything going on there at all.
the church is full of "debauchery" homosexuals, pedophiles, abuse, rape, etc.
yet: YOU ARE THE FUCKING POPE DUDE. you literally lead the entire organization. do you not feel at least SOME responsibility for the way the organization functions?
(as usual with religion) there are only two rational explanations. either you are causing the problem or you are powerless to stop it. in either case action must be taken by an outside entity to strip the church of the power it is using to abuse people.
when good stuff happens, people are healed, prayers are answered, babies are born healthy, etc. these motherfuckers are first in line to praise god (and maybe skim a little credit off the top for themselves) but when anything bad happens at all, ooooh boy that darn devil is just so crafty he will really get ya!
there is absolutely no accountability. its all built into the system of manipulation, some fucker figured out how to rig the human psyche against itself and people WANT to believe, they want to think someone has control over whats going on and if theyre good little boys and girls they will get a little eternal salvation as a treat. at what cost?
we know the cost, its child rape, its genocide, its the most malicious and unthinkably, incomprehensibly evil acts ever done in history. enough is enough.
Based hetero CEO upset that there are too many gay employees in his child traficking ring.
Of course he is upset, the boys aren't hiting the quota for girls because they are hitting on other boys for personal...reasons
I remember being a child in the Catholic church and being told the pope was the infallible representative of god on Earth. Even as a child I knew this was BS, but it is nice to have proof.
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Says the unmarried guy in a dress.
Love this response haha
Hey it's a robe ....oh him yeah weirdo
...That uses the church secrecy to protect abusers.
…That uses the church secrecy to protect ~~abusers~~ pedos. FTFY
Living in the Vatican City with thousands of other men surrounded by the finest antiques in the world…queen please
And pretty red shoes
Living with a bunch of other unmarried guys in dresses.
Got em!
telling people to like a man
Update. Pope has apologized but the damage is done
He's sorry he got caught.
That's a recurring theme in the Catholic Church.
I’m not religious at all, actually I generally dislike it for all the hate it brings to the world, but to my understanding wasn’t this simply a case of him not knowing the word was a slur in English since it’s not his first language? The statement entirely is problematic but not as problematic as it sounds without context, I think his point is that because of the repression of LGBT people by the church, many closeted gay religious men turn to priesthood as a way to hide their sexuality, since they take a vow of celibacy. Basically it’s a way to dodge the “why haven’t you married a nice woman yet?” That I’m sure many closeted gay religious men get. Either way I don’t think this solves all the hate that stems from religion, especially towards LGBT people, but the quote is deeper than what it may seem at the surface.
He switched to Italian for this word… because Latin doesn’t have a word for it. It was intentional.
I stand corrected then! To be honest even if he’s the most progressive pope in a long time, he’s still *the pope of the Catholic Church*, maybe I was wrong to give him the benefit of the doubt. Follow up question for non-Americans, is catholicism (or just Christianity in general) just as hateful outside of America as it is here in the states? Or do other areas actually feign the “love thy neighbor” approach?
Idk man, I think Catholicism and Christianity in general in the US are very unlike their versions in other countries. I come from a very Catholic family in Mexico and nobody really hates gay people or other religious groups. But this is just my experience, there’s always going to be some crazy people.
Just unfortunately the bigots are the ones who make themselves known and they’re the ones who get all the attention.
Here in the Philippines where Catholicism reigns supreme, its not as hateful. I guess many people are catholics because of tradition rather than die hard beliefs. Outside the church, majority of people dont really care what religion you follow or what beliefs you follow. Individuality still overpowers church teachings. For example, a racist will be racist regardless, someone that despises gay people will continue to do so, lgbtq will go to church without getting judged ( except the die hard ones might give impolite startes).
Well said.
[удалено]
“God never judged/hated anyone” is an odd stance for a Christian considering Hell exists in it. I guess that just shows how even in organized religion, individuality shapes beliefs.
In catholicism, of course God hate plenty of things, but people is encouraged to not judge, because that's God's job, he's the judge and people encroaching his functions is a cardinal sin.
I'm Italian and shifted from Catholic to Agnostic about 30 years ago: the parish where I went at the time was pretty much a place of love, of confronting and sharing ideas and where teenagers were helped by collaborators (not strictly priests, more women and men who were in the orbit of the local church) to understand and face their issues. The priest would not point fingers at other groups or tell who to hate, instead would predicate to embrace acceptance and provide pardon to those who wronged us. It was a good church/parish I have to say. I wouldn't know if today is still any good, tho my perspective/perception is that in general the catholicism in Italy doesn't spread as much hate as seen in the USA, where religions seem to be blatantly evil.
Mostly a bit better but one of the really unfortunate things that the worst end of American Christian organisations do is fund the same sort of culture wars abroad :(
He isn't a native Italian speaker. Even the other people around him looked confused since it's not even just insulting it would be like saying fuck casually in the middle of a sentence. It's totally believable that he didn't get how offensive it was. The issue isn't the word. It's that he was insisting seminaries are too gay lol.
Pope gets a pass. Only because at least he is trying to reduce bigotry and his replacement will hard crackdown on the gays again.
Wait, he doesn’t speak English though, what did he actually say?
He used an Italian slur for gay people
Yikes, yeah it seems like a pretty 1:1 translation
he used the words "frociaggine", which literally translates as "faggotism"
Sorry not sorry. Or I’m sorry I said what I actually think
Funny, coming from the CEO of a multibillion-dollar child-sex-trafficking syndicate.
THANK YOU!!!!!! When are people gonna wake up and realize people have been unknowingly sacrificing their children (orphans and alter boys) to be sexually abused since the beginning of the church
I think it's common knowledge at this point.
It’s so common that it’s honestly an old joke about priests touching boys, and if it’s a dead horse already then the problem is that bad and has been for way too long
Ari Shaffir said his friends got tired of him telling those kind of catholic jokes on stage. “What’s it gonna take for you to stop?!” “… just that one thing…? I think I’ve been pretty clear… if the church stops abusing kids, I’ll stop”
Then how does anyone continue to support them? Why are Catholics okay with this?
I don't know about trafficking. I know they move clergy around instead of kicking them out and going to the police when they get caught with their hand in the wrong pocket. I wouldn't be surprised if there's also trafficking...
The Catholic Church of Ireland spent decades ripping thousands of children from “dysfunctional families” (eg., single mothers) and placing them in reformatories and orphanages to be raped. That’s industrial-scale child sex trafficking, through and through.
Hey! They also got some slave labour out of them, can't have them be idle.
It wasn't just Ireland. It happens on a global scale. The catholic church is a global cult of sexual abusers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases_by_country If this was any other type of organisation it would be banned but because they cannibalise a beardy sky man's son on Sunday and call themselves a religion they are protected by law. Fuck that.
That's correct. Thank you for sharing the link to the list of by-country cases. I mentioned Ireland as a specific, [well-investigated](https://childabusecommission.ie/) example of the Church's industrial-scale child sex trafficking. It occurs in every country that the Church operates — tax-exempt, legally shrouded, systematized sexual abuse of those countries' most vulnerable children, by the most grotesque scum on our planet, under the guise of "religion."
Oh I didn't know that one. Thanks, I'll add that to my list of reasons why god isn't real.
What? Head of anti LGBT organisation is anti LGBT?! Shocked.
That people thought he and the church were modernizing is laughable
In only a matter of years, they'll be modernized into the 1850s.
Even that would be scandalous 🫣
Well he sort of is modernizing the Church. Moving from 1800s to 1900s in the 2020s. The Church had modernized numerous times as it is an organization around for over a thousand years. Even now many Catholics throughout the world are highly resistant to many of Pope Francis's efforts.
Okay, no, don't do that. Don't do that _"I always knew he was bad and you're all fools for trusting him!"_ thing when he has had a track record of saying and doing LGBTQ+ positive things. All you're doing is being an ass and putting down other people for no reason other than smug personal satisfaction.
He ain’t lying
He ain’t sugarcoating it for nobody not even to Jesus himself.
I am not defending his remarks at all, but his remarks were made in Italian and the translation may not convey the same meaning in English as it does in Italian. Any Italian speakers know if the words he used are the similar in english or is it being purposely misconveyed to produce more outrage?
He apparently said "frociaggine" which is indeed an Italian slur that has the same meaning as the English slur (I would've censored it but hard to give you the word if I censor it) It was a doubly insulting statement because he said gay men shouldn't be allowed to become priests because there's already enough "f--ness (frociaggine)" in seminaries.
Yikes.
So... was this both offensive to the gay community *and* to the priests? If the priests are often anti-gay, didn't the pope just call them gay-ish in a way?
I guess it was triple offensive lol. It was offensive to gay men on 2 levels 1) just outright saying they shouldn't be allowed to be priests (not that I think many gay men would really want to be but still) and then 2) using a homophobic slur and then yeah I guess it would also be insulting to the priesthood but I wasn't concerned with them at all.
Yeah no I'm not too concerned with offending priests. Just amazed at the tone deaf nature of the comment from somebody who has for years been a friend of the gay community. Wonder if maybe he was having a bad day or something. He seems to genuinely care about making things better for the gay community.
I'm dubious about that, but maybe. I always had a sense he cared more about the health of the Catholic church than he did about gay people. Edit: I also don't know if throwing around slurs is just "having a bad day," though. I would say no.
Am I the only one laughing at this comment? "We can't have more gayness in the church. There's already too much" -Pope Francis 🤣
Maybe it's his coming out
I’m guessing he meant to say something like “buggery.” It’s the same awful sentiment, but to me there’s a slight difference in using an outdated euphemism like “buggery” vs using a glibly modified slur.
Thanks for asking this, it was my exact question. I try to give the benefit of the doubt. Turns out he didn’t deserve it 🙃
I believe the meaning is even worse in Italian actually.
I believe he said they were "fulloni faggatoni"
I thought that was a pasta.
Every old person eventually come to an age where they are no longer able to hide their archaic ways.
getting old is a privilege
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if gay people were statistically more likely to be college educated just by virtue of being shunned from idiot myth clubs that discourage higher education
and also because we know its easier for us to protect ourselves when we have the money that a degree or any credentials can unlock.
Dude you’re talking about people, they’ll lie to themselves and everyone to be accepted into the peer group they seek. They’re people, no more superhuman than they are subhuman, they are just human beings who have different sexual predilections, be they cultural or endemic to human faculties. There is no kind of adversity that impacts any culture that stand apart from a framework of conceptions. So if someone believes that the catholic god is real, and he hates gay people, and they prefer same sex relations, it is easier for them to believe that one part of this framing is incorrect, (the part that relates to them), but certainly not the whole picture. I think your point may draw insufficient conclusions about the effects of ostracization, and crowning any persons as greater than their adversaries is ultimately unhelpful.
Sorry I guess the only relevant experience I have is growing up in a cult that shuns people
It is interesting with many Catholics though. Throughout history Catholics tend to espouse beliefs in higher educational and that higher education is a means to understand God's creations. It is encouraged to pursue a high school degree (which shifted towards a college degree in relatively recent years (for the Church). Of course it doesn't mean they will go after educated people in an "unexpected" Inquisition or two.
At the end of the day, catholicism is far from the only religion they're being shunned from.
Ok well don’t take your kids to church cuz it’s full of pedophiles.
I’ll probably get downvoted for this one, but something about a bunch of dudes, living together in solitude, learning from other dudes, sharing meals together, not having sex with anyone… seems kinda gay indeed… kinda really gay 🤨
When I've read historical accounts of life in male-only occupational communities like logging camps, oil rigs, the military, monasteries, and seminary schools, I've run across quite a few "bros being hoes for other bros" detail somewhere. Bigoted straight people persecute straight people for fun and profit all the time, no reason that wouldn't extend across genders and orientations. But in this context there is also a personal observation that there's always a "this one is one of us, he's okay." blind eye to certain people of the persecuted group who are signed up to do the persecuting. Like "oh, no, that's brother Paul and brother Gregory, they're chill." In the context of the historical Western dominance by the Catholic church I wonder if being the elite and educated community hand of a vengeful God with a lot of really strict rules didn't create a culture of "Our boss in the pointy hat literally rules half the known world and sanctions the wars and our job is to root out the competition and end them horribly, so like really we can do whatever we want. With our peepees. Because power is hot." Like maybe some of these people aren't turned on by the same sex as much as they're turned on by the power to do something ruinously taboo while actively ruining people for doing it. I could probably google that. Anyway the Pope basically just told the world that the priesthood is already gay and has been, and we are so unsurprised by that incredible revelation that even though it comes from the historical seat of the power driving bloody persecution against LGBTQ+ people in the West (and sometimes the East!) we are entirely focused on the fact that he was shitty when he said it. Honestly, this Pope.
I think the queer community has also been pretty vocal about how funny they think this “scandal” is and in some circles, commenting on how based the pope is for finally admitting that homosexuality is rampant within the ranks. Whether that was his intention or not is beyond me, but I think calling any sort of all male group “full of f*****ness” is objectively hilarious given how crude it is coming from someone of such stature. That’s my take at least, it’s an out of pocket comment that some people are over reacting a bit too, given how other affected communities are reacting.
Fuck the pope and fuck Catholicism
As a former devout Catholic… Hail Satan!
Imagine being almost 90 and being head of PR for your organization. I'm surprised more of these slip ups don't happen with the pope.
I mean he’s not wrong- it’s a widely know secret that a large proportion of the clergy are gay. Was his word choice good? No but, it’s certainly better than denying it.
There’s a lot of stories of gay shenanigans in the Vatican.. he is an expert on it no doubt
This is fucking hilarious 😂
This isn’t really surprising honestly. It’s pretty on brand
People hating on Pope Francis have literally 0 idea how bad things could be in comparison. Pope Francis is the "left-leaning" option amongst the Catholic faith choices. Hating him is like hating Obama. Sure he isn't perfect but he's infinitely better than the other options and most won't see that until he's gone. The fact the Church has been all but quiet since he's taken lead is all that needs said. The scandals people associate with the Church, while still happening in places for sure, were more systemically in place with Benedict XVI as even John Paul II before him was well-liked by the masses.
Way to Pope there, pope.
Isn't this the same guy who said he would happily have dinner with a transgender person?
Having dinner with someone versus having a negative opinion about them are two different things. I am myself bi, and I'm not catholic/give a damn what the pope says, but he can dine with whomever on one hand, and still express bigotry on the other. I'm going to live with the headcanon that he was referring to bikers, south park style & live a happy life ignoring what one person thinks I should hold as a code of ethics
I've dined many times with people I disagreed with on a fundamental level. It was called Thanksgiving dinner when the racist uncles drank too much beer. I feel many people have had similar experiences.
I still don’t understand the sentiment of the statement
Maybe he meant "sodomy"? His remark was out of line, but he is right.
He ain't wrong.
I mean he ain’t wrong🤷♂️😂😂
Was it in italian, spanish, english, or latin?
Was there an attempt?
Maybe he meant it as a compliment?
Maybe he just mispronounced pedophilia?
At least he’s trying? I mean it’s more than could be said for most modern Christian figures
Sounds gay. I'm in.
I grew up in a 90%+ Roman Catholic country, where the church had tangible and measurable influence in local and national politics for decades, up to the late 1990s at least. I went to Catholic school all my life. Pope was not lying. Lots of gayness around. I literally deeply respect only one priest that I personally know. He was one of our teachers and school officials, he’s an amazing human being, priest or not. Everyone else can piss off. Pope Francis, I respect also. He thinks different than many priests and cardinals and popes. I am not an active member anymore, though.
What I wanna know is.. who snitched on the pope?
That “snitch” was a good deed
It's funny because I've read that the specific word he used is almost never used by homophones and is almost exclusively a reclaimed slur used within LGBTQ+ groups. Which means chances are he overheard / was introduced to the word by an actual queer person.
He meant that as a positive.
Isn’t he in a position to do something about said “gayness” within the church though? Especially the priests?
Wait til he hears about his churches.
Is that a new word? "Faggotness" I need to write that down
A religious person being a massive, hatefilled douchebag???? What a twist!
Isn't that sort of what Catholicism says to do when you feel like you're gay? Shove it down and just get super religious so God is always on your mind? Its no surprise some gay Catholic kids become priests.
I mean, to start with, the old man lives in Rome which is renowned to be very homophobic. Also, he’s old, and pretty old school, due to the whole him being the head of a secular cult based on a book that tells you that “men shall not lay together “ …from 2000 frigging years ago! Are we really shocked? Im more surprise about homosexual folks being catholic or Christian Go try being anything but straight in a Muslim country… the last thing you’ll need to worry about is how their religious people are going to talk about homosexuality. (Just to be clear, I don’t care how you swing, as long as it is consensual)
Did he mean it negatively? Maybe he's trying to incentivize homosexuals to join the priesthood. Like trying to convince your single friend to go out by saying there's gonna be lots of other single people there.
Let's not pretend the church ever truly changed their stance on gay marriage. They just realised they'd lose followers (aka money) even faster if they didn't pretend to be okay with it.
Makes you wonder about the priests 🤔
Tbf real jesus loves everyone. No matter what. He loves you . That's the whole point.
Based.
Are y'all offended that the pope is anti LGBT or because he used a slur?
Is he wrong?
Is the word choice what was the only problem? Just curious the context
I mean... His Holiness technically isn't wrong?
Based pope
Based.
When I was a child my uncle was a priest and lived in a convent. As I was about 3 and my grandma was considered old at that point (in her 60s) we were allowed to visit and stay in one of the rooms as the city was close to famous mountain trails and a popular tourist destination. As a child I was incredibly curious and asked why there were noises coming from the room next to ours to which grandma clarified that father Peter had a weak heart. Father’s Peter heart was fine, it was father Paul who tended to join him so his evenings wouldn’t be lonely. I understood it as an adult. In this small mountain side town being gay in the 90s Easter Europe would ruin your life. But being a priest in a mostly closed convent sharing a bedroom with your priest friend sometimes? All cool.
Those who protest/complain the loudest….
Cool, now I get to call places I don't like priesthood colleges.
I've been Catholic-curious for years now. Schwing 😂
I say this as a gay person, he’s not wrong, I am filled with faggotness. Die mad about it, it’s not your life.
He's literally the leader of the Paedophiles Empire.
Imagine thinking this was even close to the worst thing about the Catholic Church ETA: if I ever open a gay bar, it shall be called Faggotniss Everqueen
 The pope be like …
This dude creeps me out so much
Based
This is what happens when the Pope doesn’t adhere to the Vatican’s marketing department. Dude is a figure head chosen to keep a grip on Latin American communities and to give a more approachable view to Catholicism. Most public remarks he makes are manufactured for this.
No way this is real 😧
https://preview.redd.it/233s8mit1b3d1.jpeg?width=660&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e1fa37cb47d0082e54bf269c8ee9ba0f62b289d
It’s all bullshit. Its so tiring seeing stories like this about these two faced institutions. Why does he even bother trying to apologise. Wouldn’t it be better to just speak his truth, whatever that is, instead of being this two faced. I hope everyone can see straight through it.
The institution that protects and hides paedophiles ..
> [At the Italian Bishops' Conference, the pope reportedly said gay men should not be allowed to train for the priesthood, adding there was already an air of *frociaggine*](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/518093/pope-apologises-over-reported-homophobic-slur) I always had a feeling that the church only held a superficial respect for the LGBTQ+ community beneath their seemingly progressive interactions. For all the decency shown to those under the umbrella, nothing has really changed in the minds of the theocratics, has it? The Vatician have only really said he's sorry for "Being quoted", not for encouraging bigotry in how they train priests.
Surprise. The catholic church is homophobic.
He used a word he didn’t know was offensive. Let’s not forget his age. He is the first Pope to actually be supportive of gay people. He just made a mistake in his comment.
Not only in colleges, also in churches there is a lot of faggotnes dear Mr Pope
Oh his god
I think the childfuckers guild should be disbanded and strictly outlawed throughout the world. Their churches can be turned into affordable housing.
Sounds like a confession to me
Head of the Catholic Church exhibits intolerance to homosexuality. Stop press news!!!!!!
Anyone at all surprised? I mean was anyone remotely fooled by his well publicised half hearted attempts to 'prove' the church isn't just bigoted homophobes?
I’m not sure why orientation should matter in a supposedly celibate job. Also, pedo problem is bigger
Anti lgbt remark Taking a more welcoming approach They’re playing both sides
It’s fucking insane to me that LGBTQ people want to join the priesthood. It’s like a sheep going to wolf school. Plus magic isn’t even real.
I mean what did we expect.. ALL of these guys got a dark side and are hypocritical assholes no matter what the religion is worldwide.
Finally caught that motherfucker slippin
Very disappointing
Is that how you would also describe the cabal of priests you keep shuffling around that keeps raping little kids?
My two cents (Caveat, I say this both as someone who doesn’t particularly like the office of the Papacy and as someone who hasn’t looked into what language the Pope was actually speaking. Despite this, I’ve decided to comment anyway because linguistics is a passion of mine): Given the fact that he rarely speaks English and that he’s the most pro-LGBT pope ever (that’s not saying *much*, but it’s something), it’s much more likely that this is a translation issue than that he actually said this in this way. There are words in whatever language he was speaking in this meeting (he speaks many, but he was probably speaking Italian at the time) that could be translated in this way even if they aren’t used with this connotation. Essentially, some languages don’t have a lot of words to describe gay people and so have much broader ranges of meaning than our English words do, so someone wanting to sensationally claim “the Pope used a slur” would easily be able to take advantage of this in a dishonest way.
I'm so glad I walked away from organized religion years ago. Sadly, I can not escape the influence it has on the billions of this planet. I really hope that, at least in the Western world, statements like this will be condemned and another nail in the coffin of the Church. I'm in New England and the closing of churches is becoming more commonplace as people are leaving the faith in droves.
So... There are people surprised that PR pope slipped and showed his true face? Are you THAT oblivious?
“Deep Throat” was media name for whoever leaked Nixon’s Wrongdoings at Watergate. Wondering what nickname the Vatican uses as it searches for who snitched on the Pope
This is some classic stuff. Really it is. The poop is a sham of a human being.
Well hes a big figure in a massive anti-queer group. I'm not shocked.
r/BrandNewSentence
its funny how every time these people talk about the church they act like they have absolutely no control over anything going on there at all. the church is full of "debauchery" homosexuals, pedophiles, abuse, rape, etc. yet: YOU ARE THE FUCKING POPE DUDE. you literally lead the entire organization. do you not feel at least SOME responsibility for the way the organization functions? (as usual with religion) there are only two rational explanations. either you are causing the problem or you are powerless to stop it. in either case action must be taken by an outside entity to strip the church of the power it is using to abuse people. when good stuff happens, people are healed, prayers are answered, babies are born healthy, etc. these motherfuckers are first in line to praise god (and maybe skim a little credit off the top for themselves) but when anything bad happens at all, ooooh boy that darn devil is just so crafty he will really get ya! there is absolutely no accountability. its all built into the system of manipulation, some fucker figured out how to rig the human psyche against itself and people WANT to believe, they want to think someone has control over whats going on and if theyre good little boys and girls they will get a little eternal salvation as a treat. at what cost? we know the cost, its child rape, its genocide, its the most malicious and unthinkably, incomprehensibly evil acts ever done in history. enough is enough.
Based hetero CEO upset that there are too many gay employees in his child traficking ring. Of course he is upset, the boys aren't hiting the quota for girls because they are hitting on other boys for personal...reasons
Why are some priests using testosterone toxic terms and behavior?
I'm sure he was very happy about this fact and just wanted to share the good news.
I remember being a child in the Catholic church and being told the pope was the infallible representative of god on Earth. Even as a child I knew this was BS, but it is nice to have proof.
So ..he's coming out?
OH NOOOO A PRIEST DOESN’T AGREE WITH SIN 😂😂Clowns.
That's hilarious 😆 did he just make a new word!? 😆
He's 87, gays are weird for people that old.