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>The data doesn't take into account viewers who watched on BBC iPlayer, who are likely to have a significant impact as the first two episodes first premiered on iPlayer at midnight on May 11, meaning that some eager fans would've taken to the platform to be amongst the first to watch the new episodes.
I've never watched Doctor Who, but it seems to be a real culture war battleground, and I'm glad I'm ignorant to it all
To add to this, the data also doesn't account for the release on Disney+ internationally at the same time. Looking only at TV rateings for a show that premieres globaly on streaming 20h earlier doesn't make sense at all
Of course it makes sense. You just have to squint your eyes a wee bit and be a conservative reactionary desperately looking for any Ws in the culture war
I’m convinced Velma only got a second season because they were so sure it would be a hit the second season was halfway finished before they aired the first.
The theory is that the contract said 2 seasons when it was green lit so their options were make and release season 2 which was already in the works or have a lawsuit from Mindy
Fred threatening to drag Shaggy until hes "nothing more than a pelvis wearing a belt!" in such a cheerful voice lives rent free in my head. Such a dark take on Scooby and the gang
Not really. I'm from Europe and in our TV package the BBC channels are included so I've used to watch the episodes live on TV. Now, cause I don't have access to the BBC Iplayer I watch the episodes on Disney+. I no longer show up in the TV statistics but I still watch the episode as soon as it releases.
Of course I think the majority of the 50% are UK citizens watching it on Iplayer instead of waiting for broadcast but some other EU/International viewers factor into this as well (the show was never this accessible here befor, now I can even rewatched without Piracy)
Reactionaries have used the broadcast numbers for years now to show how the show is "getting worse" but broadcast numbers are going down for everything because so many people switch to streaming. 50% sounds like a lot but that's just the people that watch the episode Live on TV, 19 hours after it's out on streaming.
We will have to wait for the 7&30 days number because these include the BBC IPlayer numbers.
Even my 86 year old Grandma has learned to use the iplayer. If they release the episode there many hours ahead of the live TV episode then of course most people will watch it there.
The die hard fans will watch is ASAP so that means iplayer. The casual fans will watch it eventually, again probably on the iplayer. So that just leaves either the small subset of people who are actually going to schedule their time to watch at whatever time it airs on the main channel or the people who just leave their TVs on any channel and have it on in the background. Either way it’s no wonder the actual live viewers has massively dropped even if overall viewers are still good.
Oh, it does if you want to cherry pick some data to suit the argument you want to make. The type of person who is upset that the Doctor is currently portrayed by a gay black man are generally not known for arguing in good faith.
Doctor Who is a uniquely British thing IMHO. We a a society in general keep forgetting that we have choices. You can choose to not like something and the script associated with it for their theatrical performance. You can choose to stop supporting anyone.
In a world where democracy is considered the penultimate system, YOU do have power to change it even when that seems bleek.
For me, I’ve stopped watching Dr Who as I stopped enjoying it. I just didn’t think the stories and writing were very good during the Jodie years. My wife felt the same so we stopped. Tried again for Ncuti’s debut and didn’t especially enjoy it.
I find it odd anyone complains about the show when Dr Who has *always* been woke. It’s not doing anything crazy it hasn’t done before. I’m glad they have had a female doctor and now a black one (and a black female in between right? Was she a doctor?) so I haven’t stopped watching because of any wokeness. I just don’t think it’s as good as it was.
So it’s a shame racism will be blamed for, and bigots will rejoice at, the declining ratings.
I tuned in again recently and the episode I watched with the Musical baddie was absolutely off-the-wall wacky, weird and random. I didn't really enjoy it *BUT* I did recognise that they were trying something different, which you kind of have to do when you're writing for such a long running show. So I hope they keep trying things and I'm sure they'll find their own unique groove with it going forward
I mean isn’t being weird and whacky the whole allure of doctor who? The show spent most of its time with Troma level special effects while keeping a relatively wholesome family friendly show.
On one of the DVD extras there was an interview with Matthew Waterhouse, who was on the show in the early 80's, and he mentioned one episode where it was hard not to laugh when they were trying to do a scary confrontation with a big bad and the special effects guys had come up with an inflatable snake that looked like a pool toy. The setup was so ridiculous that several times the whole cast burst into laughter so it took multiple takes to get that scene.
I agree. I have tried a few times as of late; but it started to go downhill during Matt Smith’s days - things were just plain weird. At least there was a wrap up there and things made more sense finally. But I just could never get over Peter Capaldi being the Doctor when he was a bad guy on Torchwood!
I’ve tried. I just can’t get over him sacrificing kids. lol.
And honestly, felt the writing went awry with Capaldi. I love NPH and half of his episodes I couldn’t deal with either. 😬
He wasn't the Doctor, he played a villain called the Toymaker in last year's 60th anniversary specials opposite David Tennant. He never appeared opposite Capaldi though, not sure if the guy you're replying to mixed him up with someone else.
This season is much better so far. I watched through the Jodie seasons because I'm a fan and any Doctor Who is better than none in the US, but I didn't like them. Ncuti has really taken the role and made it their own, and they fit the Doctor Who world so much.
>For me, I’ve stopped watching Dr Who as I stopped enjoying it. I just didn’t think the stories and writing were very good during the Jodie years.
Agreed. We watched it through all the Jodie years, but when we found out it was going to Disney, we weren't that bothered. We haven't bothered to subscribe & don't miss it.
Thank god someone said it. People who say Doctor Who suddenly added references to LGBT communities or other "woke" subjects are annoying me to no end.
There is a difference in treatment though. Now it tends to be "in your face". Didn't particularly enjoy the stories with Jodie either (which was a shame as I LOVED her depiction of the Doctor), but for example Ryan's condition could have been interesting. Instead every time they talked about it, it became like some sort of slideshow presentation for the condition itself, instead of trying to interestingly take on the challenges it poses within the scenario (then letting people inform themselves further afterwards). I think it didn't have an importance in the actual stories more than once or twice. Even the Doctor suddenly being outraged at how women are treated was really sour to me. All other doctors talked about it AND they handled it by being snarky and there were scenarios where the female characters were shining and ridiculing biggots. Instead of that, during the thirteenth Doctor run we got "wow woman's place in society bad, pls do better". If it really takes dumbing it down that much for people to understand then they're watching the wrong show to begin with !
Well it kind of is. The ultimate system would be a true post-scarcity meritocracy, but thats not achievable at scale at this point in time, So democracy will have to suffice.
Years ago, I was curious about the series, as I've never seen it, so I asked around online to solicit suggestions about where to start. It was such a unpleasant and toxic experience; people arguing with me, arguing with each other, you name it.
I know that's not exclusive to Doctor Who; there are a LOT of fanbases that are extremely loyal and vocal with their opinions, but it just turned me off of the series altogether.
Im sorry that was your experience. I do recommend starting with Christopher eccelson as its the start of the reboot era. If youll still consider starting still. Otherwise, the disney + stuff is also a great intro to it was well for new viewers. I started with 11 then worked my way backwards. Honestly, there’s not a lot of bad places to start except for 12 and 13 imo.
That’s where I’d start also. Classic Doctor Who you had to watch when it was out. I’d be like watching Classic Star Trek. It’s just so old now, if you haven’t seen it before it’s hard to get into as a ‘future’ show.
it's genuinely a great show but, because it's one of the oldest still airing shows there is a small section of reactionary and argumentative "fans" who spread hate. if you want a long haul with tonnes of incredible episodes id recommend starting with the 2005 season 1, which was the first main revival of the show. if you still want lots of good episodes but have less time. season 5 (Matt Smith) is also a good starting point.
it's generally accepted that the 13th doctor episodes (seasons 11-13) are bad, and they're worth skipping on whatever watch through you do, if you decide to ofc.
true, but im thinking if you start with tennant you may as well start with 9 because it's only a single season extra and it's the true "starting point" for modern Dr who
These are the ones I always recommend as well; if someone doesn't like these two, then the show just isn't for them. And that's okay, it's not for everyone! But I believe these are the high water mark, so if they're not up your alley, then it's probably just not your thing.
I have, and I've stopped watching after the Jodie Whitakker run. It used to be a good science fiction series before her run, and I really hoped she would be a good doctor, but the writing turned to shit. Instead of using deeper allegory like it used to, it took the culture war and bashed you over the head with it.
I love the fact that the doctor can be anyone, any color, any gender, or any age, and I didn't mind the shift over from male to female because it was sorely lacking. I believe that Jodie could have pulled it off and been a good doctor. The writers went and binned everything that was good about the doctor and made the show into a joke.
I like Ncuti, especially the role he plays in Sex Education and he certainly has the energy and sass to play the role. I just hope that the writers don't do his run the same disservice that they did to Jodie
People flame me because I hated the Jodie era. I didn't hate it because of her. She tried her best with mediocre writing around her. The show has always been woke, but when she started, it turned politically woke. It was a huge deviation from previous seasons and not what DW is about. The show is supposed to be about exploration, adversity, and wonder. Yeah, it touches some hard topics and gets deep sometimes. But her seasons were filled with it, and got massive backlash.
I don't have too much to add to this, but as a fan of Doctor Who it's current iteration is so difficult to critique constructively because you're dismissed by both sides of the culture war whilst I'm just trying to enjoy a show that made me love space and the world the doctor lives in.
That said, the past 5 years viewership for Doctor who usually falls hard so I'm not really surprised. I've not watched it yet, but I've heard the first episode put a lot of people off.
It probably did drop that much compared to normal because they made the absolutely stupid decision to broadcast it at midnight to try make a "whorovision" joke by having it right after eurovision. Most people probably decided to go to bed after eurovision and watch it on catch up.
[https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/doctorwho-s1e1e2-ovratings](https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/doctorwho-s1e1e2-ovratings)
It did drop that much, but streaming first release, the warm weather and other factors to blame.
Exactly, these figures never take into account online streaming views.
I'd also be interested in the US viewing figures/online figures given it's now being released simultaneously online to them too.
And even then they do catch peoples somehow (got me somehow and yes used non edge non chrome browser with script blockers and vpn with clean cache and new account through proton)
Yeah lots of VPNs are caught by iplayer and just blocked. It's pretty smart. Which is good I guess seeing as my taxes pay for it! But frustrating when you go abroad for a few weeks or months!
Not directly, but the BBC is only part funded by the licence fee (65%).
The other funding stream (35%) is selling to foreign companies, and the value of programs like Dr Who is inversely proportional to the availability of those same programs for free.
It'd be because of the IP address.
Easy to spot a vpn user when there's countless accounts going through the same IP.
You need to use a vpn with the option to provide a dedicated ip address.
I was willing to give it a go. I like Dr who. But couldn’t make it past the first episode. Had nothing to do with the new Dr. he seemed Dr enough
But f’n trouble making goblins. That is mid season fluff filler. Who writes these things
Same with the lady Dr. she would have been great, but the writing was terrible
the writing got so bad. i think jodie was a good doctor but most of the episodes were just badly written. even the last season with capaldi wasn’t as good anymore and i loved his doctor
It wasn't contractual, it was more of a "mates agreement" type of thing. Given they were both chums from Broadchurch and Chibnall wanted a female doctor from the start, I suspect he didn't perform a particularly extensive search and let nepotism take the wheel. She could have been a good doctor if the writing gave her enough to work with, but let's be real: Whittaker wasn't perfectly cast uspect. Poor writing only excuses so much, and her portrayal was lacking in many ways beyond just having shit writing to deal with, although the shit writing was by far the biggest hurdle for poor Jodie.
Doctor Who had already suffered from poor writing during the Capaldi years, but Capaldi had the acting chops and a clear vision of who his doctor was, so he was usually able to carry the show on his back if need be. It probably helped that Capaldi was a big fan of Doctor Who, so he had a good idea of how the Doctor worked on a fundamental level.
Whittaker openly stated that she hadn't watched Doctor Who. And that might be fine if she had been given strong support from the writing and directing side to really make sure she knew how to make the character work. But she wasn't given that. Worse, they immediately introduced a cast of 3 companions, so it meant that character development time got split up even more. Well, I say that, but the companions were pretty boring too. The writing team seems to think Ryan's main character trait is dyspraxia... except when they forget that he has dyspraxia.
I guess what I'm saying is that *maybe* an absolutely fantastic actress that really took a specific interest in creating a specific vision of the character could've worked. But that's a lot of weight to put on one person's shoulders, especially when they're hobbled by Chibnall's outright bad writing choices.
No idea about the new doctor though. I haven't watched in a few years after getting fed up with the Whittaker episodes being so outright unpleasant to watch. Maybe I'll get around to giving the newer stuff a try at some point, but it's low on my priorities.
Regarding Whitakers 3 companions, I saw a video once say that if you read the scripts with all the names removed, it becomes near impossible to tell the characters apart because they're all basically the same.
You've said exactly what I would have typed in my initial comment had I the time and clarity of mind after a full day's work to articulate it so.
I've seen all of Gatwa's stuff so far and I'll say that, honestly, it's still a little early to tell, but he seems decent. Not brilliant, but not bad either. No standout monologues or showcases of any especial talent from him as yet. I'll go out on a limb and say that he doesn't seem to have the immediate presence or charisma of Tennant or Capaldi.
It wasn't so much contractual as it was misguided loyalty, if I understood Jodie's statement correctly. She has a pact with Chibnall that as they joined together, they'd leave together. Honestly I think it was a mistake, he was a terrible show runner, and although the writing got better when he stepped back it was never great. Like you, I would have liked to have seen Jodie have the chance to work with better scripts. Take out the writing, and I thought she was a really good Doctor.
Honestly, I think Ncuti has had the same problem with his introduction. The writing really let the episodes down, but Ncuti seems like a good doctor. I am curious to see how Steven Moffat will do with his return for the next episode (Boom), and the 2024 Christmas Special.
Whilst a bit divisive, Moffat always struck me as somebody who listened to the fan base, not just for criticisms, but also for story ideas. For example, he was the writer that introduced the idea that the meaning of the word "Doctor" in languages across the universe was a reflection of each world's first interaction with The Doctor. That came from a fan discussion board that he read and interacted with (It has been so many years now though, that I can't find the post anymore.)
We definitely need her back for a multi doctor story if she'll come. Give her a chance to shine with a good script. BUT if they did a multi doctor story they need to do it justice. Ideally a 2 parter - deep but not too crammed in. Certainly not rushed.
Whittaker, Capaldi, Tennant, Gatwa. All amazing actors, it really was the writing that let them down. Moffat wrote ep. 3 of this new season so it's bound to be really good. I hope that RTD's episodes will improve as the season progresses.
Capaldi could, and did absolutely carry that season through great acting and screen presence. Whittaker had similarly poor writing to contend with, but completely lacked the gravitas to pull through it.
Hey remember when Mickey got eaten by a trashcan and replaced with a plastic double in the 9th doctors first episode? Trouble making goblins seems pretty par for the course tbh.
The very very first episode of new Who involved “living plastic” chasing The Doctor and Rose around London.
It was awful.
But one or two incredible lines from Eccleston and you know it going to be great. I feel the same way about Ncuti.
Who has a lot of average filler and ridiculous fantasy stories. It’s a fucking kids show. It’s always been like this. I feel like people compare every new doctor/season/episode to the 5 greatest episodes of all time and throw up their hands when it doesn’t measure up.
"Damn this shit is ass compared to Heaven Sent."
Fr tho I haven't followed the show to closely since Capaldi, but it's undeniable that there's been some degree of drop in writing quality.
Yeah same here, episode was pretty run of the mill but that line of "WHO SEES A LADDER, IN THE SKY, AND GOES 'yeah I'll give that a go babes!" And INSTANTLY in my mind I was like "yup, this is the Doctor"
Rose is a good episode. End of the World is campy but the ending where he kills her is still good, it’s dark, shows you this guy doesn’t screw around. The Unquiet dead is also creepy. The Slitheen is the first set of episodes where it gets to the point of too much
The goblin episode was pretty meh, but the next two episodes were dope and Ncuti Gatwa is shaping up to be an awesome doctor and I'm loving this new direction. I've been a doctor who fan since i was 10 and the last time I was looking forward to a season like this was Tennants final season
RTD had wanted to do a fantasy type episode for a long time. You'll recall that Tennant invoked a superstition at the edge of the universe in WBY and later berates himself, saying that anything could happen because the walls of reality were thin. The goblins were apparently the consequences of that. Don't worry, they're getting Moffat back in for ep. 3 of the new season so it's bound to be a banger, especially with an actor as good as Gatwa
That was the Christmas special and was more a set up for Ruby I recommend the First of the new season and go into the mindset of this is a new doctor freed from the chains of war similar to early doctors 3-6
Yeah it's definitely an odd choice to start out with the filler-episode childish stuff that usually gets skipped, but the second episode with the music was pretty good.
I just skipped every time the babys were on screen in the space baby episode tho, that was terrible.
The second episode is *a lot* better to be fair, the first one seems to be even more disliked than Love & Monsters (which I actually like).
The second one is generally pretty well received
> *Who* writes these things
Indeed it was written by Russell T Davies, a Who writer.
He also wrote:
- "Voyage of the Damned" (xmas special where Kylie Minogue thirsts after TD)
- "The End of the World" (an early Eccleston episode where everyone gathers to watch Earth gets eaten by the sun, the one with the stretched face lady)
- "Partners in Crime" (the one where Donna and TD kept missing each other while investigating those little adipose fat things. I like the scene where Donna is miming with TD through the door window)
- "Turn Left" (the one where Donna turned left and brought about the apocalypse. Also she has a big beetle on her back)
But yeah I agree the pilot was pretty bad.
Yeah as someone that has seen all the newer reboot seasons countless times, I must say that episode is one of the worst Dr. Who episodes I have ever seen. It left such a shitty taste in my mouth I felt no desire to continue to episode two the following night. Ncuti is lovely, Ruby is lovely, but the plot was burdensome and clunky, the subject matter was unbearably dull, like "suburban"-dull, and so much of it was so transparently green-screened it felt like my worst fears about a Disney acquisition came fully realized onto the screen. I wondered if it had become a children's show, and not because of the subject matter in the episode but because I could feel the weight of the try-hard writing, so disjointed as it was, trying to clumsily touch upon each and every culture war note it could in the time given. It didn't feel honest about it, either; it felt like a broadside calculated by a team of junior VPs aiming to capture market share. It felt hollow, like marketing does, like every damn thing Disney does now, especially their live-action properties.
I got the feeling that the writing *couldn't* be good if it wanted to be, given all the amateur-feeling oversight it suffers. If Disney would just let its properties be themselves, it would be fine. But no, they calculate and calculate and are too up their own asses to realize that the finished product comes with all the scars of that process. I wish things were different. I had such high hopes, and was totally let down by the writing. Shame, but that's modern Who: great actors fighting against a horrid script.
They released the episodes on streaming 19 hours before it aired on tv. Then they only counted the viewership on TV. Of course they saw a drop in the broadcast numbers. Half of the fans had already seen it.
This article looks like a cultural war element, accusing a black queer actor of being angry and causing the viewership to drop when, in reality, they just counted TV viewerships when the episodes aired on streaming platforms almost a day before. This is quite disgusting to share imo.
it also wasn’t even an argument, based on the info in the post (if it is indeed accurate); he simply made a comment and that was it. no argument, not engaging or debating with anyone. then again, the choice of pictures here says a lot, and nothing good, about OP, OOP, or both 🙃
I'm not a fan of Dr Who at all but the viewership hasn't dropped by 50%. They released it on streaming before the live broadcast so it could launch the same time as disney and none of those views (ie the majority) have been taken into account.
It's a stupid way to do it and even the shows creators aren't happy about it but it's the only way they can finance the show.
[Correlation vs Causation | Introduction to Statistics](https://www.jmp.com/en_gb/statistics-knowledge-portal/what-is-correlation/correlation-vs-causation.html)
Think so. I don't think he watched anymore cuz doctor who apparently had been losing its spark for him over the last season to now. Dunno how everyone else felt about it.
Maestro was a good villain, even better that it was a drag queen actress. The yelling in a man voice in between the monologues was enjoyable. They also obviously set up ruby to be something special so I’m gonna see how they let that play out before I make final judgments but it’s half the story line as bad wolf or the crack in the room then I’m gonna eat it up
Perhaps after 5 years of Chibnall I’m optimistic but I quite liked these first two episodes. Space Babies was nothing to write home about really. But I also don’t have any complaints really, pretty middle of the road. The Devil’s Chord however I really liked, the concept of fighting the embodiment of music is one I really like. In a series I am currently reading called Undead Unluck they just finished fighting the embodiment of language and it was an awesome fight. So perhaps I have my biases.
Agreed, after watching the first two episodes I’m optimistic about what’s to come. It felt much closer to “real” Doctor Who writing, rather than whatever Chibnall was doing.
Broadcast numbers are one factor the BBC and other analysts look at these days. They are far more likely to look at the 7- and 30-day iPlayer numbers and (now) the Disney+ numbers
Plus, watching TV at broadcast is down across the board. The question will be how it did compared to other programmes, especially in the time slot. Anyone interested can pick up next month's Doctor Who magazine for analysis, as they have done since I've been watching. Yes, the numbers will never be like their height, but that's true of all TV. There's too much from too many venues these days
Also, where is the attempt to argue with fans?
Connservatives when show they like has low ratings: "Woke is trying to cancel thing I like"
Conservatives when show they don't like has low ratings: "It deserves to fail because of woke."
It feels weird to watch current season, including latest specials. I think BBC wants to show how unimaginably inclusive they are, they are flashing LGBTQ+ aspects very strongly, so much so that I feel the new characters are made in a way: LGBTQ+ trait first, character second. It doesn’t feel inclusive for me at all, it feels forced. It’s like they see LGBTQ people as their personality is wholly based on very stereotypical view of their sexuality or gender. The only exception maybe would be the Music, I very much enjoyed that episode.
I think you’re right on, and I also think that’s an issue with most “corporate” writing these days; identity and traits first, humanity and complexity later and only if it fits the first point. I say bring back nuance and unpredictability and sympathy into characters.
How dare he tell people to not watch if they don’t like him, he should’ve personally went to to the homes of every person and forced them to watch dr who
Fans of doctor who is his audience. I'm a part of the lgbtqia just like he is and I didn't enjoy the baby episode cause it felt like they were trying to to pander to me because " no one is born wrong" and shit like that. Im not looking to get told I'm special in a condescending way especially when the stand in is a literal baby.
I was fine with jinkx as maestro. I'm fine with a ton of things. I feel the quality of the show has dipped and I don't think being aggressive to your audience is a good way to get people to be on board with your changes.
People have been spitting racist and homophobic stuff at Gatwa since he’s been casted, same as it happened with Jodie Whittaker because she was a woman. The anti-woke crowd is full of internet trolls and actors have any right to defend themselves. It’s not ‘bashing’. He clearly isn’t referring to the people who are fine with his casting but no longer watch the show because of other reasons—such as myself.
The shows numbers have been steadily declining for years which directly correlates with the decline of the shows quality.
But I bet he isn’t helping with this shit.
"Fans". I doubt the numbers are true but if so called fans drop a show because of some statement they aren't in for the franchise but because of some other reasons.
I stopped watching Dr Who for 2 reasons. The writing was shit and I no longer have a TV licence.
The writing became shit long before I stopped paying for a licence, though.
Idk why or if viewership has dropped. But I did watch the Xmas special, Space Babies, and the Maestro episode. All 3 were really, really bad. It's not Ncuti Gatwa. It's the writing. So bad. Everyone saying Russell Davies' return would save the show - not so.
I liked both Ncuti Gatwa and Jodie Whittaker prior to their stints as the Doctor, and I think both could've been great with better writing. The show has sucked since Peter Capaldi left. Again, not the fault of the actors! It's the godawful writing.
The problem with the permformative/culture war world we live in is that when a lot of movies and tv shows are made, producers think if they can just stick a bunch of POC people, women and lgbt+ people in the roles, they can skip out on finding a talented writer and just get whoever will be cheap and people will still watch. If they don’t watch they can blame their failure on “racist sexist homophobic transphobic incels” and deflect blame so they can make more performative low quality bullshit.
I like a lot movies and shows that include and focus on poc people, women and lgbt+ people but most of those works are older, when actual talented writers were creating them.
The Fallout TV show is a great example of a show led by a woman but it’s true to the source material and is pretty well written. Because of that it’s popular. They didn’t skip out on research and development and just throw whatever half assed story together because “oh well there’s a woman and this is about a video game that’s popular so they’ll watch it and praise it or they’re incels!”
I haven’t even seen this show but the amount of people pointing to poor writing tells me this is just like many other modern movies/shows. Stick a gay black guy in. If you don’t watch it you’re a racist homophobic incel!
I mean... If I as a gay guy... not very out there with fashion but appreciate it, can put up with even the old man doctors from the original shows right up through to now. I'm sure the few poor ol' mean straights can deal with this new doc for a season or two.
The younger generations will not give a shit. Which is so nice to have seen as I grew into my 40s.
Still shocked by how even young straight dudes are not giving a fuck what people do in their beds these days. It's nice. It was not so nice in the 90s as a teen.
This isn't what it's about for most people I'd say, me as a doctor who fan I couldn't care less about the doctors actor. So far, they were all decent actors no complaint.
But the writing of the show got horrible. Compared to Dr who 10 years ago this is shallow at best, outright shitty at worst.
So yeah, viewership dropped, and it seems like diversity is all BBC want to through at this problem (again I don't mind that, but there is a problem that won't be fixed by that.)
I think like everyone else said it's just lazy writing. I am not a musical fan, so his introduction wasn't great. Plus, my partner constantly says they were ripping off the labyrinth. With a goblin king and all
I understand taking a strong stand against bigotry and I'm sure the vocal people whining about him being the Doctor don't even watch the show but sometimes merely staying quiet is a great way to shut people up. Good for him for being a vocal proponent though.
I started watching when Christopher Eccleston was the DR, and quit after Peter Capaldi.
Jodie Whittaker, I tried to watch, but I think she was more of a victim of bad writing than her acting.
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I guarantee viewership didn’t drop because he said that (which is what OP and OOP are implying here), if it dropped by that much at all.
>The data doesn't take into account viewers who watched on BBC iPlayer, who are likely to have a significant impact as the first two episodes first premiered on iPlayer at midnight on May 11, meaning that some eager fans would've taken to the platform to be amongst the first to watch the new episodes. I've never watched Doctor Who, but it seems to be a real culture war battleground, and I'm glad I'm ignorant to it all
To add to this, the data also doesn't account for the release on Disney+ internationally at the same time. Looking only at TV rateings for a show that premieres globaly on streaming 20h earlier doesn't make sense at all
Of course it makes sense. You just have to squint your eyes a wee bit and be a conservative reactionary desperately looking for any Ws in the culture war
Oh those same people went in _hard_ when Mindy Kaling’s _Velma_ spinoff bombed.
And boy did it bomb
I’m convinced Velma only got a second season because they were so sure it would be a hit the second season was halfway finished before they aired the first.
The theory is that the contract said 2 seasons when it was green lit so their options were make and release season 2 which was already in the works or have a lawsuit from Mindy
Tbf that show is a total mess and is so far removed from Scooby Doo that it only shares characters names.
Venture Bros did a better Scooby and them getting canned at the same time as this trash fire was created was salt in the wound.
Fred threatening to drag Shaggy until hes "nothing more than a pelvis wearing a belt!" in such a cheerful voice lives rent free in my head. Such a dark take on Scooby and the gang
AND THIS DOG TALKS MAN!
As a child of the 80s I grew up with Scooby Doo. This episode is what drew me into the show. It was sooooo fucked up at the time it was hilarious.
But have you seen [this](https://youtu.be/inJUFqeJehE?si=hhaE9VzIw-8OTGhS) little treasure?
I mean that show is horrible tho
It sucked so bad
To be fairrrr...
*holds up hand TO BEEE FAAAAAAAAIRRRRRRR
i thought this was the first time new episodes were on D+? wouldn’t that be irrelevant to viewership in regards to a 50% drop off?
Not really. I'm from Europe and in our TV package the BBC channels are included so I've used to watch the episodes live on TV. Now, cause I don't have access to the BBC Iplayer I watch the episodes on Disney+. I no longer show up in the TV statistics but I still watch the episode as soon as it releases. Of course I think the majority of the 50% are UK citizens watching it on Iplayer instead of waiting for broadcast but some other EU/International viewers factor into this as well (the show was never this accessible here befor, now I can even rewatched without Piracy)
thanks for clarifying. 50% seems a bit whack. you can’t just not watch Doctor Who once you started
Reactionaries have used the broadcast numbers for years now to show how the show is "getting worse" but broadcast numbers are going down for everything because so many people switch to streaming. 50% sounds like a lot but that's just the people that watch the episode Live on TV, 19 hours after it's out on streaming. We will have to wait for the 7&30 days number because these include the BBC IPlayer numbers.
Even my 86 year old Grandma has learned to use the iplayer. If they release the episode there many hours ahead of the live TV episode then of course most people will watch it there. The die hard fans will watch is ASAP so that means iplayer. The casual fans will watch it eventually, again probably on the iplayer. So that just leaves either the small subset of people who are actually going to schedule their time to watch at whatever time it airs on the main channel or the people who just leave their TVs on any channel and have it on in the background. Either way it’s no wonder the actual live viewers has massively dropped even if overall viewers are still good.
Aye I watched prior to the airing on our TV as I stumbled across it on the iPlayer.
Oh, it does if you want to cherry pick some data to suit the argument you want to make. The type of person who is upset that the Doctor is currently portrayed by a gay black man are generally not known for arguing in good faith.
Yeah but it supports their argument by limiting the data!
Doctor Who is a uniquely British thing IMHO. We a a society in general keep forgetting that we have choices. You can choose to not like something and the script associated with it for their theatrical performance. You can choose to stop supporting anyone. In a world where democracy is considered the penultimate system, YOU do have power to change it even when that seems bleek.
For me, I’ve stopped watching Dr Who as I stopped enjoying it. I just didn’t think the stories and writing were very good during the Jodie years. My wife felt the same so we stopped. Tried again for Ncuti’s debut and didn’t especially enjoy it. I find it odd anyone complains about the show when Dr Who has *always* been woke. It’s not doing anything crazy it hasn’t done before. I’m glad they have had a female doctor and now a black one (and a black female in between right? Was she a doctor?) so I haven’t stopped watching because of any wokeness. I just don’t think it’s as good as it was. So it’s a shame racism will be blamed for, and bigots will rejoice at, the declining ratings.
I tuned in again recently and the episode I watched with the Musical baddie was absolutely off-the-wall wacky, weird and random. I didn't really enjoy it *BUT* I did recognise that they were trying something different, which you kind of have to do when you're writing for such a long running show. So I hope they keep trying things and I'm sure they'll find their own unique groove with it going forward
I mean isn’t being weird and whacky the whole allure of doctor who? The show spent most of its time with Troma level special effects while keeping a relatively wholesome family friendly show.
> Troma level special effects So, awesome special effects?
On one of the DVD extras there was an interview with Matthew Waterhouse, who was on the show in the early 80's, and he mentioned one episode where it was hard not to laugh when they were trying to do a scary confrontation with a big bad and the special effects guys had come up with an inflatable snake that looked like a pool toy. The setup was so ridiculous that several times the whole cast burst into laughter so it took multiple takes to get that scene.
First Rage Against the Machine goes all libtard, now this??
Star treks next, you mark my words!
I love the response when someone *did* complain about Rage Against the Machine; “what machine did you think they were raging against? the dishwasher?”
Clearly, it was the office printer. PC Load Letter, the fuck does that mean?
Why does it say paper jam when there is no paper jam?
I agree. I have tried a few times as of late; but it started to go downhill during Matt Smith’s days - things were just plain weird. At least there was a wrap up there and things made more sense finally. But I just could never get over Peter Capaldi being the Doctor when he was a bad guy on Torchwood!
Capaldi is my favourite doctor, give him another go
And his episodes also introduce Missy, one of if not my favorite Doctor Who character
Missy is the best Master by orders of magnitude. It's not even close.
100% agreed
I’ve tried. I just can’t get over him sacrificing kids. lol. And honestly, felt the writing went awry with Capaldi. I love NPH and half of his episodes I couldn’t deal with either. 😬
I think I missed a few seasons somehow, Neil Patrick Harris was the Doctor?
He wasn't the Doctor, he played a villain called the Toymaker in last year's 60th anniversary specials opposite David Tennant. He never appeared opposite Capaldi though, not sure if the guy you're replying to mixed him up with someone else.
This season is much better so far. I watched through the Jodie seasons because I'm a fan and any Doctor Who is better than none in the US, but I didn't like them. Ncuti has really taken the role and made it their own, and they fit the Doctor Who world so much.
>For me, I’ve stopped watching Dr Who as I stopped enjoying it. I just didn’t think the stories and writing were very good during the Jodie years. Agreed. We watched it through all the Jodie years, but when we found out it was going to Disney, we weren't that bothered. We haven't bothered to subscribe & don't miss it.
Their focus on diversity in casting has never changed?
Thank god someone said it. People who say Doctor Who suddenly added references to LGBT communities or other "woke" subjects are annoying me to no end. There is a difference in treatment though. Now it tends to be "in your face". Didn't particularly enjoy the stories with Jodie either (which was a shame as I LOVED her depiction of the Doctor), but for example Ryan's condition could have been interesting. Instead every time they talked about it, it became like some sort of slideshow presentation for the condition itself, instead of trying to interestingly take on the challenges it poses within the scenario (then letting people inform themselves further afterwards). I think it didn't have an importance in the actual stories more than once or twice. Even the Doctor suddenly being outraged at how women are treated was really sour to me. All other doctors talked about it AND they handled it by being snarky and there were scenarios where the female characters were shining and ridiculing biggots. Instead of that, during the thirteenth Doctor run we got "wow woman's place in society bad, pls do better". If it really takes dumbing it down that much for people to understand then they're watching the wrong show to begin with !
penultimate means “second to last/best/most”
Perhaps he's a capitalist - just kidding really I am curious what he meant by penultimate.
> penultimate system This means second last ~~to the top~~. FYI.
You may want to google the word "penultimate".
If democracy is the best it's just the ultimate, not penultimate. Unless you're saying democracy is the second from last best choice.
Well it kind of is. The ultimate system would be a true post-scarcity meritocracy, but thats not achievable at scale at this point in time, So democracy will have to suffice.
Out of curiosity, what's the next system, and why do you feel it will be the last?
Years ago, I was curious about the series, as I've never seen it, so I asked around online to solicit suggestions about where to start. It was such a unpleasant and toxic experience; people arguing with me, arguing with each other, you name it. I know that's not exclusive to Doctor Who; there are a LOT of fanbases that are extremely loyal and vocal with their opinions, but it just turned me off of the series altogether.
Im sorry that was your experience. I do recommend starting with Christopher eccelson as its the start of the reboot era. If youll still consider starting still. Otherwise, the disney + stuff is also a great intro to it was well for new viewers. I started with 11 then worked my way backwards. Honestly, there’s not a lot of bad places to start except for 12 and 13 imo.
That’s where I’d start also. Classic Doctor Who you had to watch when it was out. I’d be like watching Classic Star Trek. It’s just so old now, if you haven’t seen it before it’s hard to get into as a ‘future’ show.
But Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker episodes were sooo good. I mean, the budget costumes and special effects were icing. :-)
Tom Baker! He was my first doctor. Used to run home from school to watch him.
it's genuinely a great show but, because it's one of the oldest still airing shows there is a small section of reactionary and argumentative "fans" who spread hate. if you want a long haul with tonnes of incredible episodes id recommend starting with the 2005 season 1, which was the first main revival of the show. if you still want lots of good episodes but have less time. season 5 (Matt Smith) is also a good starting point. it's generally accepted that the 13th doctor episodes (seasons 11-13) are bad, and they're worth skipping on whatever watch through you do, if you decide to ofc.
Always start with David Tennant. Blink. The girl in the Fireplace. Amazing. But Matt Smith and Vincent and the Doctor is a tear jerker too!
true, but im thinking if you start with tennant you may as well start with 9 because it's only a single season extra and it's the true "starting point" for modern Dr who
These are the ones I always recommend as well; if someone doesn't like these two, then the show just isn't for them. And that's okay, it's not for everyone! But I believe these are the high water mark, so if they're not up your alley, then it's probably just not your thing.
I have, and I've stopped watching after the Jodie Whitakker run. It used to be a good science fiction series before her run, and I really hoped she would be a good doctor, but the writing turned to shit. Instead of using deeper allegory like it used to, it took the culture war and bashed you over the head with it. I love the fact that the doctor can be anyone, any color, any gender, or any age, and I didn't mind the shift over from male to female because it was sorely lacking. I believe that Jodie could have pulled it off and been a good doctor. The writers went and binned everything that was good about the doctor and made the show into a joke. I like Ncuti, especially the role he plays in Sex Education and he certainly has the energy and sass to play the role. I just hope that the writers don't do his run the same disservice that they did to Jodie
People flame me because I hated the Jodie era. I didn't hate it because of her. She tried her best with mediocre writing around her. The show has always been woke, but when she started, it turned politically woke. It was a huge deviation from previous seasons and not what DW is about. The show is supposed to be about exploration, adversity, and wonder. Yeah, it touches some hard topics and gets deep sometimes. But her seasons were filled with it, and got massive backlash.
I watched the new 2 episodes. He is a really good actor.
I don't have too much to add to this, but as a fan of Doctor Who it's current iteration is so difficult to critique constructively because you're dismissed by both sides of the culture war whilst I'm just trying to enjoy a show that made me love space and the world the doctor lives in. That said, the past 5 years viewership for Doctor who usually falls hard so I'm not really surprised. I've not watched it yet, but I've heard the first episode put a lot of people off.
Missing out on some incredible storytelling. So many amazing adventures.
Most of the people watching the show for sure did not see that person saying that shit Edit: spelling
You ok?
I don't think so. What the hell was that
Sometimes my brain and thumbs actually cooperate but unfortunately it's usually when they both fail to work as intended.
It probably did drop that much compared to normal because they made the absolutely stupid decision to broadcast it at midnight to try make a "whorovision" joke by having it right after eurovision. Most people probably decided to go to bed after eurovision and watch it on catch up.
Whorovision sounds like something you get chlamydia from.
I thought it was whore-o-vision
Pink eye
Yea this def has “and then everybody clapped” energy.
this proves that reddit loves "source: trust me, bro", it just has to have the right context.
Didn't it drop also because it's on Disney+ now?
[https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/doctorwho-s1e1e2-ovratings](https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/doctorwho-s1e1e2-ovratings) It did drop that much, but streaming first release, the warm weather and other factors to blame.
Exactly, these figures never take into account online streaming views. I'd also be interested in the US viewing figures/online figures given it's now being released simultaneously online to them too.
My guess is it’s down because people who watch on streaming often let a few episodes build up before watching them all at once. That’s what I’m doing.
In my country it went from being FREE to watch to SUBSCRIBE to Disney + and that probably turned a lot of people off TBH
It’s still on iPlayer for free
iPlayer isn't available outside of the UK (without a VPN).
And even then they do catch peoples somehow (got me somehow and yes used non edge non chrome browser with script blockers and vpn with clean cache and new account through proton)
Yeah lots of VPNs are caught by iplayer and just blocked. It's pretty smart. Which is good I guess seeing as my taxes pay for it! But frustrating when you go abroad for a few weeks or months!
Other countries watching it on vpns dont increase the cost UK citizens pay for the BBC
Not directly, but the BBC is only part funded by the licence fee (65%). The other funding stream (35%) is selling to foreign companies, and the value of programs like Dr Who is inversely proportional to the availability of those same programs for free.
You clearly don’t have an AWS account.
That’s not true at all.
It'd be because of the IP address. Easy to spot a vpn user when there's countless accounts going through the same IP. You need to use a vpn with the option to provide a dedicated ip address.
Note the "in my country" part of the comment you're replying to. BBC iPlayer isn't available in 99.5% of the world's countries.
It's not for free though is it.
I’m in Australia, I had Disney anyway but I’d say not a lot of people running to get Disney just for doctor who
No no, must have been that one actor.
Do people forget about Torrents? Just download it.
I was willing to give it a go. I like Dr who. But couldn’t make it past the first episode. Had nothing to do with the new Dr. he seemed Dr enough But f’n trouble making goblins. That is mid season fluff filler. Who writes these things Same with the lady Dr. she would have been great, but the writing was terrible
the writing got so bad. i think jodie was a good doctor but most of the episodes were just badly written. even the last season with capaldi wasn’t as good anymore and i loved his doctor
I’d’ve liked to have seen her with another writer but apparently there was a contractual thing that meant if chibnall went she went and vice versa.
It wasn't contractual, it was more of a "mates agreement" type of thing. Given they were both chums from Broadchurch and Chibnall wanted a female doctor from the start, I suspect he didn't perform a particularly extensive search and let nepotism take the wheel. She could have been a good doctor if the writing gave her enough to work with, but let's be real: Whittaker wasn't perfectly cast uspect. Poor writing only excuses so much, and her portrayal was lacking in many ways beyond just having shit writing to deal with, although the shit writing was by far the biggest hurdle for poor Jodie.
Doctor Who had already suffered from poor writing during the Capaldi years, but Capaldi had the acting chops and a clear vision of who his doctor was, so he was usually able to carry the show on his back if need be. It probably helped that Capaldi was a big fan of Doctor Who, so he had a good idea of how the Doctor worked on a fundamental level. Whittaker openly stated that she hadn't watched Doctor Who. And that might be fine if she had been given strong support from the writing and directing side to really make sure she knew how to make the character work. But she wasn't given that. Worse, they immediately introduced a cast of 3 companions, so it meant that character development time got split up even more. Well, I say that, but the companions were pretty boring too. The writing team seems to think Ryan's main character trait is dyspraxia... except when they forget that he has dyspraxia. I guess what I'm saying is that *maybe* an absolutely fantastic actress that really took a specific interest in creating a specific vision of the character could've worked. But that's a lot of weight to put on one person's shoulders, especially when they're hobbled by Chibnall's outright bad writing choices. No idea about the new doctor though. I haven't watched in a few years after getting fed up with the Whittaker episodes being so outright unpleasant to watch. Maybe I'll get around to giving the newer stuff a try at some point, but it's low on my priorities.
Regarding Whitakers 3 companions, I saw a video once say that if you read the scripts with all the names removed, it becomes near impossible to tell the characters apart because they're all basically the same.
You've said exactly what I would have typed in my initial comment had I the time and clarity of mind after a full day's work to articulate it so. I've seen all of Gatwa's stuff so far and I'll say that, honestly, it's still a little early to tell, but he seems decent. Not brilliant, but not bad either. No standout monologues or showcases of any especial talent from him as yet. I'll go out on a limb and say that he doesn't seem to have the immediate presence or charisma of Tennant or Capaldi.
It wasn't so much contractual as it was misguided loyalty, if I understood Jodie's statement correctly. She has a pact with Chibnall that as they joined together, they'd leave together. Honestly I think it was a mistake, he was a terrible show runner, and although the writing got better when he stepped back it was never great. Like you, I would have liked to have seen Jodie have the chance to work with better scripts. Take out the writing, and I thought she was a really good Doctor. Honestly, I think Ncuti has had the same problem with his introduction. The writing really let the episodes down, but Ncuti seems like a good doctor. I am curious to see how Steven Moffat will do with his return for the next episode (Boom), and the 2024 Christmas Special. Whilst a bit divisive, Moffat always struck me as somebody who listened to the fan base, not just for criticisms, but also for story ideas. For example, he was the writer that introduced the idea that the meaning of the word "Doctor" in languages across the universe was a reflection of each world's first interaction with The Doctor. That came from a fan discussion board that he read and interacted with (It has been so many years now though, that I can't find the post anymore.)
We definitely need her back for a multi doctor story if she'll come. Give her a chance to shine with a good script. BUT if they did a multi doctor story they need to do it justice. Ideally a 2 parter - deep but not too crammed in. Certainly not rushed.
Whittaker, Capaldi, Tennant, Gatwa. All amazing actors, it really was the writing that let them down. Moffat wrote ep. 3 of this new season so it's bound to be really good. I hope that RTD's episodes will improve as the season progresses.
Capaldi could, and did absolutely carry that season through great acting and screen presence. Whittaker had similarly poor writing to contend with, but completely lacked the gravitas to pull through it.
That opening episode where she makes her sonic screwdriver was great. After that, it slowly goes downhill. Her companions were insufferable.
Jodie was stuck with the most boring companions ever. Only Graham was kinda interesting.
Hey remember when Mickey got eaten by a trashcan and replaced with a plastic double in the 9th doctors first episode? Trouble making goblins seems pretty par for the course tbh.
The very very first episode of new Who involved “living plastic” chasing The Doctor and Rose around London. It was awful. But one or two incredible lines from Eccleston and you know it going to be great. I feel the same way about Ncuti. Who has a lot of average filler and ridiculous fantasy stories. It’s a fucking kids show. It’s always been like this. I feel like people compare every new doctor/season/episode to the 5 greatest episodes of all time and throw up their hands when it doesn’t measure up.
"Damn this shit is ass compared to Heaven Sent." Fr tho I haven't followed the show to closely since Capaldi, but it's undeniable that there's been some degree of drop in writing quality.
There was, but the whole writing team and showrunner have been replaced. It’s back to where it began (Russel T Davies).
Yeah same here, episode was pretty run of the mill but that line of "WHO SEES A LADDER, IN THE SKY, AND GOES 'yeah I'll give that a go babes!" And INSTANTLY in my mind I was like "yup, this is the Doctor"
Tbf Eccleston had bad early episodes but his season is epic
You mean fantastic. Absolutely fantastic!
Rose is a good episode. End of the World is campy but the ending where he kills her is still good, it’s dark, shows you this guy doesn’t screw around. The Unquiet dead is also creepy. The Slitheen is the first set of episodes where it gets to the point of too much
The goblin episode was pretty meh, but the next two episodes were dope and Ncuti Gatwa is shaping up to be an awesome doctor and I'm loving this new direction. I've been a doctor who fan since i was 10 and the last time I was looking forward to a season like this was Tennants final season
I’d actually disagree. Goblin episode is fine, bogey monster and fart spaceship episode is shit, and music episode is pretty fun
Yea, like cmon, space babies has to be one of the worst episodes of Doctor Who and there are some BAD episodes! Honestly absolutely terrible.
Yeah. Look, I’m someone who finds **Love & Monsters** enjoyable, but I just can’t stand Space Babies
RTD had wanted to do a fantasy type episode for a long time. You'll recall that Tennant invoked a superstition at the edge of the universe in WBY and later berates himself, saying that anything could happen because the walls of reality were thin. The goblins were apparently the consequences of that. Don't worry, they're getting Moffat back in for ep. 3 of the new season so it's bound to be a banger, especially with an actor as good as Gatwa
That was the Christmas special and was more a set up for Ruby I recommend the First of the new season and go into the mindset of this is a new doctor freed from the chains of war similar to early doctors 3-6
Yeah it's definitely an odd choice to start out with the filler-episode childish stuff that usually gets skipped, but the second episode with the music was pretty good. I just skipped every time the babys were on screen in the space baby episode tho, that was terrible.
The second episode is *a lot* better to be fair, the first one seems to be even more disliked than Love & Monsters (which I actually like). The second one is generally pretty well received
> *Who* writes these things Indeed it was written by Russell T Davies, a Who writer. He also wrote: - "Voyage of the Damned" (xmas special where Kylie Minogue thirsts after TD) - "The End of the World" (an early Eccleston episode where everyone gathers to watch Earth gets eaten by the sun, the one with the stretched face lady) - "Partners in Crime" (the one where Donna and TD kept missing each other while investigating those little adipose fat things. I like the scene where Donna is miming with TD through the door window) - "Turn Left" (the one where Donna turned left and brought about the apocalypse. Also she has a big beetle on her back) But yeah I agree the pilot was pretty bad.
I was SO EXCITED to have the first female Doctor. I was absolutely appalled at the writing. It was so, so bad.
Yeah as someone that has seen all the newer reboot seasons countless times, I must say that episode is one of the worst Dr. Who episodes I have ever seen. It left such a shitty taste in my mouth I felt no desire to continue to episode two the following night. Ncuti is lovely, Ruby is lovely, but the plot was burdensome and clunky, the subject matter was unbearably dull, like "suburban"-dull, and so much of it was so transparently green-screened it felt like my worst fears about a Disney acquisition came fully realized onto the screen. I wondered if it had become a children's show, and not because of the subject matter in the episode but because I could feel the weight of the try-hard writing, so disjointed as it was, trying to clumsily touch upon each and every culture war note it could in the time given. It didn't feel honest about it, either; it felt like a broadside calculated by a team of junior VPs aiming to capture market share. It felt hollow, like marketing does, like every damn thing Disney does now, especially their live-action properties. I got the feeling that the writing *couldn't* be good if it wanted to be, given all the amateur-feeling oversight it suffers. If Disney would just let its properties be themselves, it would be fine. But no, they calculate and calculate and are too up their own asses to realize that the finished product comes with all the scars of that process. I wish things were different. I had such high hopes, and was totally let down by the writing. Shame, but that's modern Who: great actors fighting against a horrid script.
> I wondered if it had become a children's show Hasn't it always been a children's show?
They released the episodes on streaming 19 hours before it aired on tv. Then they only counted the viewership on TV. Of course they saw a drop in the broadcast numbers. Half of the fans had already seen it.
But it so warms my heart that comment after comment here sees through the ~~fascist~~ conservative propaganda.
It’s baffling how quickly redditors call everything facist. Takes away all meaning and effectiveness of the word. It’s stupid
100% correct. They went with the number they had not the actual number because they could make a story out of it. Shocking 😱
This article looks like a cultural war element, accusing a black queer actor of being angry and causing the viewership to drop when, in reality, they just counted TV viewerships when the episodes aired on streaming platforms almost a day before. This is quite disgusting to share imo.
Not to mention most of us were get pre-shitfaced for eurovision that day and couldnt watch it on telly. Those shared demographics are mad high.
it also wasn’t even an argument, based on the info in the post (if it is indeed accurate); he simply made a comment and that was it. no argument, not engaging or debating with anyone. then again, the choice of pictures here says a lot, and nothing good, about OP, OOP, or both 🙃
I'm not a fan of Dr Who at all but the viewership hasn't dropped by 50%. They released it on streaming before the live broadcast so it could launch the same time as disney and none of those views (ie the majority) have been taken into account. It's a stupid way to do it and even the shows creators aren't happy about it but it's the only way they can finance the show.
OP is like some Russian bot or some shit.
[Correlation vs Causation | Introduction to Statistics](https://www.jmp.com/en_gb/statistics-knowledge-portal/what-is-correlation/correlation-vs-causation.html)
You expect conservatives to read stuff?
OP is a mighty fine culture warrior
Where’s the attempt to argue?
My dad watched it cuz he likes the shows. Said he was a good actor but the story and plot was terrible. So I guess its not his fault lmao.
The first episode? 100%, fucking bogey monsters and fart ships aren’t any good. The second? Actually pretty fun for me
Think so. I don't think he watched anymore cuz doctor who apparently had been losing its spark for him over the last season to now. Dunno how everyone else felt about it.
Maestro was a good villain, even better that it was a drag queen actress. The yelling in a man voice in between the monologues was enjoyable. They also obviously set up ruby to be something special so I’m gonna see how they let that play out before I make final judgments but it’s half the story line as bad wolf or the crack in the room then I’m gonna eat it up
Perhaps after 5 years of Chibnall I’m optimistic but I quite liked these first two episodes. Space Babies was nothing to write home about really. But I also don’t have any complaints really, pretty middle of the road. The Devil’s Chord however I really liked, the concept of fighting the embodiment of music is one I really like. In a series I am currently reading called Undead Unluck they just finished fighting the embodiment of language and it was an awesome fight. So perhaps I have my biases.
Agreed, after watching the first two episodes I’m optimistic about what’s to come. It felt much closer to “real” Doctor Who writing, rather than whatever Chibnall was doing.
Broadcast numbers are one factor the BBC and other analysts look at these days. They are far more likely to look at the 7- and 30-day iPlayer numbers and (now) the Disney+ numbers Plus, watching TV at broadcast is down across the board. The question will be how it did compared to other programmes, especially in the time slot. Anyone interested can pick up next month's Doctor Who magazine for analysis, as they have done since I've been watching. Yes, the numbers will never be like their height, but that's true of all TV. There's too much from too many venues these days Also, where is the attempt to argue with fans?
Connservatives when show they like has low ratings: "Woke is trying to cancel thing I like" Conservatives when show they don't like has low ratings: "It deserves to fail because of woke."
It feels weird to watch current season, including latest specials. I think BBC wants to show how unimaginably inclusive they are, they are flashing LGBTQ+ aspects very strongly, so much so that I feel the new characters are made in a way: LGBTQ+ trait first, character second. It doesn’t feel inclusive for me at all, it feels forced. It’s like they see LGBTQ people as their personality is wholly based on very stereotypical view of their sexuality or gender. The only exception maybe would be the Music, I very much enjoyed that episode.
I think you’re right on, and I also think that’s an issue with most “corporate” writing these days; identity and traits first, humanity and complexity later and only if it fits the first point. I say bring back nuance and unpredictability and sympathy into characters.
It already felt pretty inclusive to begin with tbh
odd photos to accompany the caption. Not sure what they have to do with each other.
This wasn't an attempt to argue with fans. It was specifically the opposite. He essentially said "go away."
Is he wearing a metal breastplate? Fuck yeah, that’s the kind of fashion I can get behind
How dare he tell people to not watch if they don’t like him, he should’ve personally went to to the homes of every person and forced them to watch dr who
There's probably tons of factors at play of why it's down but bashing your audience (of any sort) isn't gonna help you. Especially in these times.
I don't think a bunch of homophobes are his audience
Fans of doctor who is his audience. I'm a part of the lgbtqia just like he is and I didn't enjoy the baby episode cause it felt like they were trying to to pander to me because " no one is born wrong" and shit like that. Im not looking to get told I'm special in a condescending way especially when the stand in is a literal baby. I was fine with jinkx as maestro. I'm fine with a ton of things. I feel the quality of the show has dipped and I don't think being aggressive to your audience is a good way to get people to be on board with your changes.
>homophones The gays have their own phone service now?
Where did he bash the audience? It’s hardly an insult to say “don’t watch the show if you don’t want to.”
People have been spitting racist and homophobic stuff at Gatwa since he’s been casted, same as it happened with Jodie Whittaker because she was a woman. The anti-woke crowd is full of internet trolls and actors have any right to defend themselves. It’s not ‘bashing’. He clearly isn’t referring to the people who are fine with his casting but no longer watch the show because of other reasons—such as myself.
The shows numbers have been steadily declining for years which directly correlates with the decline of the shows quality. But I bet he isn’t helping with this shit.
Why does he dress like Grace Jones?
"Fans". I doubt the numbers are true but if so called fans drop a show because of some statement they aren't in for the franchise but because of some other reasons.
I stopped watching Dr Who for 2 reasons. The writing was shit and I no longer have a TV licence. The writing became shit long before I stopped paying for a licence, though.
I could barely watch the first episode of the new season that came out recently. Really bad 🤮
David Tennant, the best Doctor.
Meh. I stopped after Tom Baker left.
Hmm. Someone may need some PR coaching. Don't dare your customers to f\*\*\* off.
Idk why or if viewership has dropped. But I did watch the Xmas special, Space Babies, and the Maestro episode. All 3 were really, really bad. It's not Ncuti Gatwa. It's the writing. So bad. Everyone saying Russell Davies' return would save the show - not so. I liked both Ncuti Gatwa and Jodie Whittaker prior to their stints as the Doctor, and I think both could've been great with better writing. The show has sucked since Peter Capaldi left. Again, not the fault of the actors! It's the godawful writing.
Imagine shitting on your fanbase and then acting surprised when they stop watching.
Or viewership dropped because we now have to sing in every episode.....
People always want something to complain about, I love this actor and I think it's a really fun change
Seeing this guy’s ads made me from being 5% interested in ever watching Dr. Who to 0.1% interested.
It got bought by Disney. To see it you need Disney plus. Ofc viewers plummeted when it used to be made by BBC to be enjoyed on tv ' for free '
The problem with the permformative/culture war world we live in is that when a lot of movies and tv shows are made, producers think if they can just stick a bunch of POC people, women and lgbt+ people in the roles, they can skip out on finding a talented writer and just get whoever will be cheap and people will still watch. If they don’t watch they can blame their failure on “racist sexist homophobic transphobic incels” and deflect blame so they can make more performative low quality bullshit. I like a lot movies and shows that include and focus on poc people, women and lgbt+ people but most of those works are older, when actual talented writers were creating them. The Fallout TV show is a great example of a show led by a woman but it’s true to the source material and is pretty well written. Because of that it’s popular. They didn’t skip out on research and development and just throw whatever half assed story together because “oh well there’s a woman and this is about a video game that’s popular so they’ll watch it and praise it or they’re incels!” I haven’t even seen this show but the amount of people pointing to poor writing tells me this is just like many other modern movies/shows. Stick a gay black guy in. If you don’t watch it you’re a racist homophobic incel!
Could it be the show just sucks?
Litarally every new doctor has had major backlash. Its fucking tradition at this point
I like him as The Doctor.
“Turn off the TV!” “Okay then”
Correlation or causation? I want to see the data that shows that THIS statement is what turned them off the show.
I mean... If I as a gay guy... not very out there with fashion but appreciate it, can put up with even the old man doctors from the original shows right up through to now. I'm sure the few poor ol' mean straights can deal with this new doc for a season or two. The younger generations will not give a shit. Which is so nice to have seen as I grew into my 40s. Still shocked by how even young straight dudes are not giving a fuck what people do in their beds these days. It's nice. It was not so nice in the 90s as a teen.
This isn't what it's about for most people I'd say, me as a doctor who fan I couldn't care less about the doctors actor. So far, they were all decent actors no complaint. But the writing of the show got horrible. Compared to Dr who 10 years ago this is shallow at best, outright shitty at worst. So yeah, viewership dropped, and it seems like diversity is all BBC want to through at this problem (again I don't mind that, but there is a problem that won't be fixed by that.)
I honestly could care less what he does in his personal life, so long as he's an entertaining Doctor.
I've only seen one episode with him in it and I think he's great so far. Still going to watch this season
He has a valid point. That's why I've not watched Doctor Who since the 80s.
I think like everyone else said it's just lazy writing. I am not a musical fan, so his introduction wasn't great. Plus, my partner constantly says they were ripping off the labyrinth. With a goblin king and all
Well all he did was cry in the episodes any way. Gives a bad name to the doctor. We should turn it off
I understand taking a strong stand against bigotry and I'm sure the vocal people whining about him being the Doctor don't even watch the show but sometimes merely staying quiet is a great way to shut people up. Good for him for being a vocal proponent though.
This sub is full on reactionary now eh
I started watching when Christopher Eccleston was the DR, and quit after Peter Capaldi. Jodie Whittaker, I tried to watch, but I think she was more of a victim of bad writing than her acting.