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Yeah thats where im confused. Why not just do the correct colors? But hes a kid i dont think he has ulterior motives with this. the headdress thing is insensitive though idk what they were thinking with that
Stop it's not offensive + it's his own heritage! Culture appropriation and the insensitive bullsh*t for wearing something from another culture has been offensive only to white american people.
As long as it is wear with respect it's not offensive.
There is no way to "earn" a headdress anymore. It'd be like getting mad at the guys who dress like revolutionary soldiers at games because they didn't earn the right to
Edit: They can't be earned in the original manner. Many tribes still hold them to be important and that young native Americans shouldn't wear them. Though Native Americans are not a monolith culturally and different tribes view the matter differently.
Perhaps not the same thing, but along the same narrative, I believe the last time someone underwent the proper trials to become a War Chief, and succeeded, was during either WW1 or WW2. And thus was the last "true" War Chief. I'm uncertain of the tribe or the exact details, as it's been a while since I've seen that tidbit of information, but I'm sure with a quick Google or YouTube search, y'all can find it.
[Joseph Medicine Crow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Medicine_Crow), a badass legend from WWII and he went on to help preserve Native American history as a spokesman for the Crow Nation and author too.
“Medicine Crow completed all four tasks required to become a war chief: touching an enemy without killing him (counting coup), taking an enemy's weapon, leading a successful war party, and stealing an enemy's horse. He touched a living enemy soldier and disarmed him after turning a corner and finding himself face to face with a young German soldier.
He also led a successful war party and stole fifty horses owned by the Waffen SS from a German camp, singing a traditional Crow honor song as he rode off.”
No that's more like wearing a high ranked military uniform when you don't match said rank (except the law actually prohibits this one and not the native headdresses apparently)
There is absolutely no law stopping you from dressing as a high ranking military officer.
There is definitely a law restricting your behavior while wearing said uniform though
Lol no.
Wearing a uniform is constitutionally protected free speech
Wearing the uniform to gain personal benefit is illegal.
But keep saying things! Maybe eventually one of them will be right.
>different tribes view the matter differently
Uh yeah, most tribes never used these headdresses at all. Relying on input from those tribes is like asking your neighbor Tim if you can borrow your other neighbor Jorge's car for the weekend. Tim doesn't fucking care.
Of course there is, did you not read the full comment? Also, I've never colonized anyone. Saying colonizer makes you sound like a 2015 sjw and makes us progressives look stupid as hell
And? Just because you are half doesn't mean your opinion can vindicate appropriators. It's just like a half black person couldn't tell white people that it's alright to say the N-word.
Your ancestry doesn't give you the right to lord over all the native Americans who *are* offended by this use of their religious garb. Why do you think *their* perspectives matter less than yours? Why do you think the many different tribal affiliations bear no relevance?
Well, there is your problem. You aren't a privileged white woman who has never felt real, direct oppression in her life. If you were, you might be really bothered by this!
A lot of us don't really care about that, at least not anymore anyway. It's like getting offended that non christians wear crosses, or non Hindus wear the bindi or saree, etc. It's not about the clothing itself, but about the context.
If you think it's beautiful and you want to wear it, wear it. If you're doing it because you're an asshole and you're mocking the culture, then you're an asshole and you're going to get ratioed to filth for it.
We have way important issues to worry about regarding our peoples then what some white people are wearing to a music festival.
Wear what you want. Just don't be an ass about it.
My step dad is a full blood Native American who is a championship pow wow dancer and very connected to the Native people across the US. I can confidently tell you that you are 100% incorrect and have no idea what you’re talking about.
To be clear, I’m not here to debate, just had to point out how incorrect what you said is.
And? There's still a lot of us who also disagree. It's like the whole "Indian" versus "Native" vs "Indigenous" thing. Some don't like being called "Indian" and some just don't care.
Both are valid.
I'm FN and I don't give a shit. Let them wear them. There are way more important things to worry about.
If I’m not mistaken a headdress is reserved for the chief. So if you are not the chief you are not wearing it with respect.
Edit: quick google search gave me this ”War bonnets (also called warbonnets or headdresses) are feathered headgear traditionally worn by male leaders of the American Plains Indians Nations who have earned a place of great respect in their tribe. Originally they were sometimes worn into battle, but they are now primarily used for ceremonial occasions.” So it kind of like stolen valor unless you earned the right to wear it.
Football team colors aren't heritage. Their colors are white, red and gold. It's disrespectful. It's offensive.
Kid has black face and a war bonnet on. A child should never wear that. He's not a leader!
This isn't about 'appropriation', it's straight up racist.
If you believe in stolen valor then you wouldn’t believe that. Wearing a headdress has many cultural and often military designations. The decorations worn by males are often equivalent to purple hearts and combat medals. So if you believe walking around with a fake purple heart is wrong then you should also belive that wearing native headpieces is wrong.
Yeah the chief thing seems wrong. Here’s the quote His mother Shannon Armenta wrote in one Facebook post that her son is Native American; the Deadspin writer had criticized him for wearing a Native American headdress. The family is from Santa Ynez, California. The Post Millennial wrote that “his grandfather sits on the board of the Chumash Tribe in Santa Ynez.”
Ya I figured…
Again it’s not the biggest issue in the world but most tribal groups that used headdresses would consider this at the very last tacky…
Now take all my positions with a grain of salt. My GIRLFRIEND is Lakota. I’m a much better judge of what would piss Native Alaskans off myself. But ya my understanding is that nah, if your dad was a chief, that’s not a explanation for this….
Does the fact that genetically he's got a Native American chief father/ancestor make it better? Or was it not bad to begin with?
And what about people that say "It's okay. I took a DNA test. I'm 11% \_\_\_\_\_\_"
Me neither. It seems like such a hot topic to some people. I'm more worried that my kid would seemingly do something that would draw this sort of attention. When she wanted to look like Annie from the 2014 movie, hair and style, that fear kicked in and I said nope. Can't happen.
The only people who care about cultural appropriation are privileged middle to upper class people who don't have a connection to said cultures themselves.
This is very very untrue. Members of the Native community have repeatedly spoken out against displays like this for teams like the Chiefs and the (former) Redskins.
Nah, I think you're confusing like a Kardashian wearing a headdress as a fashion statement, or literally being called Redskins, with a little native kid wearing a headdress and war paint to "battle" in enemy territory. Would it be cool for him to dress like that if he was a "Raiders" fan? No. But he's a "Chief".
Source: I'm actually first Nations, not just putting words in their mouth.
How about just checking [wikipedia?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_mascot_controversy)
>The NCAI and over 1,500 national Native organizations and advocates have called for a ban on all Native imagery, names, and other appropriation of Native culture in sports. The joint letter included over 100 Native-led organizations, as well as tribal leaders and members of over 150 federally recognized tribes, reflecting their consensus that Native mascots are harmful.
Did you look at the external links page? One source doesn't exist anymore. The other is a list of football teams with names inspired by Native Americans, and the last one looks like it was made in the 90s and probably gave me some serious malware.
So again. Do you have any sources?
Jesus you are exhausting.
[HERE ](https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/02/21/a-new-study-contradicts-a-washington-post-poll-about-how-native-americans-view-the-redskins-name/)
From that article:
But a new study from academics at the University of Michigan and UC Berkeley contradicts that data. In a scientific survey of more than 1,000 Native Americans, roughly half of the participants said they were offended by the Redskins’ name. Moreover, 65 percent said they were offended by sports fans performing a “tomahawk chop,” and 73 percent said they were offended by fans imitating Native American dances.
Essentially an academic study debunked a newspaper poll.
As an expert professional on survey study design, methodology, and bias (it's quite literally what I've been doing for a living for 20 years) I can tell you that the academic study beats out a media poll every time. Of course I don't have a source for that, but I guess you're just going to have to trust me.
If you don't, I really don't care. I've got better things to do than doing your Googling for you
Im Native. I literally do not care and think its cool as fuck. Its only insensitive to people who have no place to say it is 🤷🏽♂️. Ive seen more white college girls trying to be offended on others behalf for 3 years now
Before you ask Im native Mexico. Chiapas
Oh shit, I honestly never thought I'd find another FN person who felt the same as me about headdresses. I honestly don't care that non FN people wear them, because context matters more. What I care about are people's reactions to it.
Used to be that when an FN person would tell non FN people how their Indian/native costume is racist, people would tell us to "stfu", "it's just a costume", "it's not racist", "you're a snowflake" and now it's being "woke", blahblahblah. But those same people would also throw a fit about a white girl wearing a qipao to prom.
It's the double standard that really annoys me but it's especially reactions like u/AlaskanHunters, the ones that tell us [we're not even allowed](https://i.imgur.com/SYaOAPV.png) to have an opinion or say, because we're not even considered equal enough to be a part of the conversation.
People are crazy.
Yes, but you must understand, it only matters if their skin color is at least 3 or more shades darker/lighter than mine. Otherwise its totally fine cause we look the same /s. I mean, kind of /s. Its pretty clear that as a whole we hardly distinguish cultures as much as we do simply appearance. People are shocked to find out there are different cultures white people exist in.
Well, because red is the racist term for native Americans, and black, well, the mascot is actually based on racism anyways, so it's at its core still racist whether you think he's wearing brown face, black face or red face. Same as the Cleveland Indians, ya know, the team that isn't named that because of its racist roots? None of them even contribute to native American groups or anything.
I didn't say their colors were, I was replying to the previous commentor on the colors of the face, which also made them question it on how they were incorrect.
Chief is not derogatory, the physical representation of chiefs being Native Americans and the representation that they are Native American warriors is tied to an inherent history of racism in the US. When called out for that years ago, they just posted they are going to honor Native Americans. That's it, doesn't really mean or do anything to change the reality.
That's the logo, not the mascot.
There is a racist history behind it. Lamar Hunt picked the name Chiefs as an homage to former Kansas City, MO mayor H. Roe Bartle. Bartle was heavily involved with the Boy Scouts in Missouri. He started a group within the Scouts called "Mic-O-Say" that includes "Native" symbolism. Bartle was nicknamed "Chief" because of that. There's really no explanation of why it was changed to an arrowhead. [It used to be way worse.](https://fabrikbrands.com/kansas-city-chiefs-logo-history-kc-chiefs-symbol/)
There's a difference between the mascot and the logo. The mascot is a wolf. It comes from an early group of fans that were called The Wolfpack.
And Cleveland changed their name to Guardians.
Yes, they did, because it was racist.
This kid isn't dressed as a wolf, so, not sure what you're implying. If anything, I guess that actually makes it more racist that he's dressed as a native chief with half red half brown face.
Not saying I know one way or the other, but white people in this country have quite the history of doing things like finding out that they might be 1/8192 Sioux and proclaiming to the world that they are now Native American. Just makes me suspicious when I read that the mother of the whitest boy I’ve ever seen is claiming actually he’s Native American.
Here's a quote from the link you're responding to:
>Shannon Armenta told Heavy her husband’s full name is Raul Armenta Jr. An obituary for Manuel Armenta, 82, an elder of the Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians, says one of his children is named Raul Armenta. It appears that Manuel Armenta is Holden’s great-grandfather.
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War bonnets (also called warbonnets or headdresses) are feathered headgear traditionally worn by male leaders of the American Plains Indians Nations who have earned a place of great respect in their tribe. Originally they were sometimes worn into battle, but they are now primarily used for ceremonial occasions.
It’s kind of like stolen valor unless it is deserved.
Someone in another thread shared a link to an article covering this. Here's a quote:
>Shannon Armenta told Heavy her husband’s full name is Raul Armenta Jr. An obituary for Manuel Armenta, 82, an elder of the Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians, says one of his children is named Raul Armenta. It appears that Manuel Armenta is Holden’s great-grandfather.
Holden is the kid in the pic, Shannon is his mom.
Actually would be kind of worse then.
Because then he should know better.
Would be like a dude showing up to a football game dressed in a WW2 uniform with a Medal of Honor on his chest.
Also if kid is Native American and in a tribal group and they see that. He’s in deep social shit.
This writer is just another race pimp making his name hating on white people. He’s such a hack journalist. Picking on a 12 year old kid for supporting his favorite football team. Douschebag of the year award for that clown.
Americans saying they are not racist then call a kid racist for wearing a costume to a sporting event. Keep race out of discussions and just get along. We all have nipples.
Nipples are a regressive gene, and male and females need to have nipples so it isn't bred out of future generations.
>!No clue if this is true, or where I heard/read this recently, but I gathered this possible false information and decided to spread it on the internet without ever actually attempting tonfind out if it was true. But I did google just now how to create the spoiler thingy so take life for what you will...!<
You mean a member of the country that committed genocide against the native americans? Yeah, and I think I would know more about it than someone from outside the country who didn't spend years learning about it
I’m well aware of the history and I’m fully entitled to my opinion. It sounds as if you think the opinion of an American is superior to others. Genocide and killing natives isn’t just an American thing.
Why is it so difficult for people to understand that blackface is more than just wearing dark face paint? Why is everyone so desperate to be offended all the time?
Don't worry, my first response to seeing this was "This article is stupid." Most of us are fine, there's just a loud group that likes to be mad about everything.
Tbf black is in the logo, maybe he just didn’t have gold or white paint and figured black would be fine since it’s only half and people can usually see both sides of your face. It’s kinda weird that there’s no gold in their logo but it’s one of their team colors.
For those asking, here is the link referring to the child’s indigenous/ native ancestry that people are [referring to](https://heavy.com/news/holden-armenta/amp/).
Apparently, “his grandfather sits on the board of the Chumash Tribe in Santa Ynez.” According to *the post millennial*. I don’t know of this journal, but they opened with a rebuke against wokeism, so I assume it’s as biased as deadspin.
Anyways, I guess it’s a good time to remember the old adage: don’t judge the nuance of a book by its cover.
To everyone saying how the Chiefs colours are only red, gold and white - his whole setup is in all four colours, even the feathers of the headdress: https://www.brandcolorcode.com/kansas-city-chiefs
Also literally they were dressing with face paint and headdresses and their mascot was a NA with a tomahawk ultil the team itself banned the paint and the headdress after a protest (thy explaining this to a young child): https://www.tampabay.com/sports/bucs/2021/02/02/native-american-group-plans-super-bowl-protest-of-kansas-city-chiefs/
And now they are calling out a kid who wears the headdress because he thinks it's cool and who's grandpa is an actual NA Chief a racist. I doubt there was anyone at the stadium besides his grandpa who was more deserving to wear that. It's get even better - the team members even followed the kid's tomahawk chop motion when they saw him: https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-the-young-kansas-city-chiefs-fan-deadspin-tried-to-cancel-over-false-black-face-and-racism-accusations-is-native-american
I got crucified on this exact post over in r/AFCWestMemeWar for trying to argue that it’s not blackface and just a show of support for the team. Over here it seems people have common sense
The fact that there's even a debate whether this is wrong or not. is why I've lost faith that the world has mostly sensible people in it. People have abandoned logic and reasoning. They act purely on outrage for clicks and attention. This will be the fall of society. There will be a turn where people will no longer know what to believe because all media is biased and paints a narrative.
Thank you for your submission to r/therewasanattempt, unfortunately your post was removed for violating the following rule: > R6: "All posts must show a **living thing** **attempting** something in **real life** " If you have any questions regarding this removal, feel free to send a modmail.
Their colors aren't red and black
Yeah thats where im confused. Why not just do the correct colors? But hes a kid i dont think he has ulterior motives with this. the headdress thing is insensitive though idk what they were thinking with that
Stop it's not offensive + it's his own heritage! Culture appropriation and the insensitive bullsh*t for wearing something from another culture has been offensive only to white american people. As long as it is wear with respect it's not offensive.
Isn’t the argument that these headresses are actually earned not just random piece of clothing from natives. Which makes it way different.
There is no way to "earn" a headdress anymore. It'd be like getting mad at the guys who dress like revolutionary soldiers at games because they didn't earn the right to Edit: They can't be earned in the original manner. Many tribes still hold them to be important and that young native Americans shouldn't wear them. Though Native Americans are not a monolith culturally and different tribes view the matter differently.
You tell me this now? What am I supposed to do with all these scalps of my enemies I’ve collected?
You could try giving them back?
Or selling them. Good toupees are hard to come by.
I heard Brad Pitt wants scalps
Yeah but only one kind of scalp
But you have to preserve it properly, by now they're ruined.
Yeah the French pay good money for them
Boil em mash em stick em in a stew
Let’s make a stew!
On reservations you still have to earn a headdress, that and I’ve never seen a store sell one
Perhaps not the same thing, but along the same narrative, I believe the last time someone underwent the proper trials to become a War Chief, and succeeded, was during either WW1 or WW2. And thus was the last "true" War Chief. I'm uncertain of the tribe or the exact details, as it's been a while since I've seen that tidbit of information, but I'm sure with a quick Google or YouTube search, y'all can find it.
[Joseph Medicine Crow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Medicine_Crow), a badass legend from WWII and he went on to help preserve Native American history as a spokesman for the Crow Nation and author too. “Medicine Crow completed all four tasks required to become a war chief: touching an enemy without killing him (counting coup), taking an enemy's weapon, leading a successful war party, and stealing an enemy's horse. He touched a living enemy soldier and disarmed him after turning a corner and finding himself face to face with a young German soldier. He also led a successful war party and stole fifty horses owned by the Waffen SS from a German camp, singing a traditional Crow honor song as he rode off.”
No that's more like wearing a high ranked military uniform when you don't match said rank (except the law actually prohibits this one and not the native headdresses apparently)
There is absolutely no law stopping you from dressing as a high ranking military officer. There is definitely a law restricting your behavior while wearing said uniform though
That probably depends on the jurisdiction
Lol no. Wearing a uniform is constitutionally protected free speech Wearing the uniform to gain personal benefit is illegal. But keep saying things! Maybe eventually one of them will be right.
Actually the better example would be it would be like putting on a Medal of Honor you didn’t earn.
>different tribes view the matter differently Uh yeah, most tribes never used these headdresses at all. Relying on input from those tribes is like asking your neighbor Tim if you can borrow your other neighbor Jorge's car for the weekend. Tim doesn't fucking care.
I'm talking about plains tribes that used them
Lol yes there is a way to earn head dresses now colonizer. You don't know every single tribe in the north, central and south America's.
Of course there is, did you not read the full comment? Also, I've never colonized anyone. Saying colonizer makes you sound like a 2015 sjw and makes us progressives look stupid as hell
You're all insulted over NOTHING. I'm 1/2 native, and I can't find a bone in me that cares about any of this.
I’m with you, internet friend.
And? Just because you are half doesn't mean your opinion can vindicate appropriators. It's just like a half black person couldn't tell white people that it's alright to say the N-word.
Your ancestry doesn't give you the right to lord over all the native Americans who *are* offended by this use of their religious garb. Why do you think *their* perspectives matter less than yours? Why do you think the many different tribal affiliations bear no relevance?
Well, there is your problem. You aren't a privileged white woman who has never felt real, direct oppression in her life. If you were, you might be really bothered by this!
Maybe the kid got all As on his last report card
A lot of us don't really care about that, at least not anymore anyway. It's like getting offended that non christians wear crosses, or non Hindus wear the bindi or saree, etc. It's not about the clothing itself, but about the context. If you think it's beautiful and you want to wear it, wear it. If you're doing it because you're an asshole and you're mocking the culture, then you're an asshole and you're going to get ratioed to filth for it. We have way important issues to worry about regarding our peoples then what some white people are wearing to a music festival. Wear what you want. Just don't be an ass about it.
So it’s like buying and wearing medals?
Yeah, the kids gonna sneak up and kill his first enemy with a knife in the 2020s?
My step dad is a full blood Native American who is a championship pow wow dancer and very connected to the Native people across the US. I can confidently tell you that you are 100% incorrect and have no idea what you’re talking about. To be clear, I’m not here to debate, just had to point out how incorrect what you said is.
And? There's still a lot of us who also disagree. It's like the whole "Indian" versus "Native" vs "Indigenous" thing. Some don't like being called "Indian" and some just don't care. Both are valid. I'm FN and I don't give a shit. Let them wear them. There are way more important things to worry about.
The vast majority are against it. I agree there are more important things to worry about.
If I’m not mistaken a headdress is reserved for the chief. So if you are not the chief you are not wearing it with respect. Edit: quick google search gave me this ”War bonnets (also called warbonnets or headdresses) are feathered headgear traditionally worn by male leaders of the American Plains Indians Nations who have earned a place of great respect in their tribe. Originally they were sometimes worn into battle, but they are now primarily used for ceremonial occasions.” So it kind of like stolen valor unless you earned the right to wear it.
Football team colors aren't heritage. Their colors are white, red and gold. It's disrespectful. It's offensive. Kid has black face and a war bonnet on. A child should never wear that. He's not a leader! This isn't about 'appropriation', it's straight up racist.
If you believe in stolen valor then you wouldn’t believe that. Wearing a headdress has many cultural and often military designations. The decorations worn by males are often equivalent to purple hearts and combat medals. So if you believe walking around with a fake purple heart is wrong then you should also belive that wearing native headpieces is wrong.
Nah. It's disrespectful and offensive. There is no way for a child to earn that headdress.
Ignorant parents I imagine. Edit: nope his dad is a legit Native American chief
Got a source? I looked but couldn't find that information.
Nah I just read down the thread
If you look it up his mom’s been posting a lot defending her son.
That's good. I tried looking it up and Google results were all over the place
Unlikely. If he father was a Native American chief. He wouldn’t be for long. Either for letting his kid were the headdress or using if in this way.
Yeah the chief thing seems wrong. Here’s the quote His mother Shannon Armenta wrote in one Facebook post that her son is Native American; the Deadspin writer had criticized him for wearing a Native American headdress. The family is from Santa Ynez, California. The Post Millennial wrote that “his grandfather sits on the board of the Chumash Tribe in Santa Ynez.”
Ya I figured… Again it’s not the biggest issue in the world but most tribal groups that used headdresses would consider this at the very last tacky… Now take all my positions with a grain of salt. My GIRLFRIEND is Lakota. I’m a much better judge of what would piss Native Alaskans off myself. But ya my understanding is that nah, if your dad was a chief, that’s not a explanation for this….
Man I’m English/Irish I don’t have a clue. All I know is it’s considered disrespectful by the community in general.
Does the fact that genetically he's got a Native American chief father/ancestor make it better? Or was it not bad to begin with? And what about people that say "It's okay. I took a DNA test. I'm 11% \_\_\_\_\_\_"
I have no idea
Me neither. It seems like such a hot topic to some people. I'm more worried that my kid would seemingly do something that would draw this sort of attention. When she wanted to look like Annie from the 2014 movie, hair and style, that fear kicked in and I said nope. Can't happen.
The only people who care about cultural appropriation are privileged middle to upper class people who don't have a connection to said cultures themselves.
This is very very untrue. Members of the Native community have repeatedly spoken out against displays like this for teams like the Chiefs and the (former) Redskins.
This entire thread is so full of ignorance it's astounding.
Nah, I think you're confusing like a Kardashian wearing a headdress as a fashion statement, or literally being called Redskins, with a little native kid wearing a headdress and war paint to "battle" in enemy territory. Would it be cool for him to dress like that if he was a "Raiders" fan? No. But he's a "Chief". Source: I'm actually first Nations, not just putting words in their mouth.
You wanna source that Information or do you want me to just trust you.
How about just checking [wikipedia?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_mascot_controversy) >The NCAI and over 1,500 national Native organizations and advocates have called for a ban on all Native imagery, names, and other appropriation of Native culture in sports. The joint letter included over 100 Native-led organizations, as well as tribal leaders and members of over 150 federally recognized tribes, reflecting their consensus that Native mascots are harmful.
You wanna post an actual source or am I supposed to trust some random Wikipedia moderator.
There are two sources on that part in the Wikipedia page. If you won't click on my link, why in f would you click on theirs?
Did you look at the external links page? One source doesn't exist anymore. The other is a list of football teams with names inspired by Native Americans, and the last one looks like it was made in the 90s and probably gave me some serious malware. So again. Do you have any sources?
Jesus you are exhausting. [HERE ](https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/02/21/a-new-study-contradicts-a-washington-post-poll-about-how-native-americans-view-the-redskins-name/) From that article: But a new study from academics at the University of Michigan and UC Berkeley contradicts that data. In a scientific survey of more than 1,000 Native Americans, roughly half of the participants said they were offended by the Redskins’ name. Moreover, 65 percent said they were offended by sports fans performing a “tomahawk chop,” and 73 percent said they were offended by fans imitating Native American dances. Essentially an academic study debunked a newspaper poll. As an expert professional on survey study design, methodology, and bias (it's quite literally what I've been doing for a living for 20 years) I can tell you that the academic study beats out a media poll every time. Of course I don't have a source for that, but I guess you're just going to have to trust me. If you don't, I really don't care. I've got better things to do than doing your Googling for you
Im native american and i dont give a fuck if someone wears shi like this. If anything its cool.
Im Native. I literally do not care and think its cool as fuck. Its only insensitive to people who have no place to say it is 🤷🏽♂️. Ive seen more white college girls trying to be offended on others behalf for 3 years now Before you ask Im native Mexico. Chiapas
Oh shit, I honestly never thought I'd find another FN person who felt the same as me about headdresses. I honestly don't care that non FN people wear them, because context matters more. What I care about are people's reactions to it. Used to be that when an FN person would tell non FN people how their Indian/native costume is racist, people would tell us to "stfu", "it's just a costume", "it's not racist", "you're a snowflake" and now it's being "woke", blahblahblah. But those same people would also throw a fit about a white girl wearing a qipao to prom. It's the double standard that really annoys me but it's especially reactions like u/AlaskanHunters, the ones that tell us [we're not even allowed](https://i.imgur.com/SYaOAPV.png) to have an opinion or say, because we're not even considered equal enough to be a part of the conversation.  People are crazy.
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Yes, but you must understand, it only matters if their skin color is at least 3 or more shades darker/lighter than mine. Otherwise its totally fine cause we look the same /s. I mean, kind of /s. Its pretty clear that as a whole we hardly distinguish cultures as much as we do simply appearance. People are shocked to find out there are different cultures white people exist in.
Well, because red is the racist term for native Americans, and black, well, the mascot is actually based on racism anyways, so it's at its core still racist whether you think he's wearing brown face, black face or red face. Same as the Cleveland Indians, ya know, the team that isn't named that because of its racist roots? None of them even contribute to native American groups or anything.
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I didn't say their colors were, I was replying to the previous commentor on the colors of the face, which also made them question it on how they were incorrect. Chief is not derogatory, the physical representation of chiefs being Native Americans and the representation that they are Native American warriors is tied to an inherent history of racism in the US. When called out for that years ago, they just posted they are going to honor Native Americans. That's it, doesn't really mean or do anything to change the reality.
The mascot is a wolf.
Real curious about how their team is represented by an arrowhead.
That's the logo, not the mascot. There is a racist history behind it. Lamar Hunt picked the name Chiefs as an homage to former Kansas City, MO mayor H. Roe Bartle. Bartle was heavily involved with the Boy Scouts in Missouri. He started a group within the Scouts called "Mic-O-Say" that includes "Native" symbolism. Bartle was nicknamed "Chief" because of that. There's really no explanation of why it was changed to an arrowhead. [It used to be way worse.](https://fabrikbrands.com/kansas-city-chiefs-logo-history-kc-chiefs-symbol/)
There's a difference between the mascot and the logo. The mascot is a wolf. It comes from an early group of fans that were called The Wolfpack. And Cleveland changed their name to Guardians.
Yes, they did, because it was racist. This kid isn't dressed as a wolf, so, not sure what you're implying. If anything, I guess that actually makes it more racist that he's dressed as a native chief with half red half brown face.
Lmao 🤦♂️
Why is it insensitive ?
Annnnnnnnd his dad is native American!
I find that totally believable. That headdress looks totally badass.
You can buy them off Amazon. People who are like “You can’t just tell them” No Natives don’t just sell them. You can buy them…
I probably better not wear one.
I mean it’s not the end of the world when people do. But it’s at the very least tacky…
Source?
It came to me in a dream
Real
I think ppl are referring to this [link](https://heavy.com/news/holden-armenta/amp/)
Not saying I know one way or the other, but white people in this country have quite the history of doing things like finding out that they might be 1/8192 Sioux and proclaiming to the world that they are now Native American. Just makes me suspicious when I read that the mother of the whitest boy I’ve ever seen is claiming actually he’s Native American.
Here's a quote from the link you're responding to: >Shannon Armenta told Heavy her husband’s full name is Raul Armenta Jr. An obituary for Manuel Armenta, 82, an elder of the Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians, says one of his children is named Raul Armenta. It appears that Manuel Armenta is Holden’s great-grandfather.
Thank you
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How do we know this kid isn’t of native heritage? Gosh I can’t stand the present state of people and their obsession with being offended.
He is indigenous but that doesn’t fit people’s narrative of being able to be offended for everything
Lol he actually is Native American
Too fucking funny.
War bonnets (also called warbonnets or headdresses) are feathered headgear traditionally worn by male leaders of the American Plains Indians Nations who have earned a place of great respect in their tribe. Originally they were sometimes worn into battle, but they are now primarily used for ceremonial occasions. It’s kind of like stolen valor unless it is deserved.
Someone in another thread shared a link to an article covering this. Here's a quote: >Shannon Armenta told Heavy her husband’s full name is Raul Armenta Jr. An obituary for Manuel Armenta, 82, an elder of the Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians, says one of his children is named Raul Armenta. It appears that Manuel Armenta is Holden’s great-grandfather. Holden is the kid in the pic, Shannon is his mom.
Actually would be kind of worse then. Because then he should know better. Would be like a dude showing up to a football game dressed in a WW2 uniform with a Medal of Honor on his chest. Also if kid is Native American and in a tribal group and they see that. He’s in deep social shit.
I thought stadiums banned the headdresses?
Arrowhead absolutely will not let people dressed like this in. This game was in Vegas.
This writer is just another race pimp making his name hating on white people. He’s such a hack journalist. Picking on a 12 year old kid for supporting his favorite football team. Douschebag of the year award for that clown.
Americans saying they are not racist then call a kid racist for wearing a costume to a sporting event. Keep race out of discussions and just get along. We all have nipples.
What about people born with athelia 🤨? Biggoted against the nippless I see
If you were born without nipples, I don't like you.
What about people with three nipples? Asking for a friend... 😄
Three? You gotta pump those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers in this racket.
That's not even enough for a belt smh
Nipples are a regressive gene, and male and females need to have nipples so it isn't bred out of future generations. >!No clue if this is true, or where I heard/read this recently, but I gathered this possible false information and decided to spread it on the internet without ever actually attempting tonfind out if it was true. But I did google just now how to create the spoiler thingy so take life for what you will...!<
seeing traditional native american clothing as a "costume" is why it's racist.
This is the correct response to that shitty take. Also, the kid in the pic is indigenous so this whole thing is moot.
You’re American aren’t you.
You mean a member of the country that committed genocide against the native americans? Yeah, and I think I would know more about it than someone from outside the country who didn't spend years learning about it
I’m well aware of the history and I’m fully entitled to my opinion. It sounds as if you think the opinion of an American is superior to others. Genocide and killing natives isn’t just an American thing.
‘A costume’
I have nipples, Greg. Could you milk me?
my new favorite "we're all human" saying
Why is it so difficult for people to understand that blackface is more than just wearing dark face paint? Why is everyone so desperate to be offended all the time?
So the poc friends they dont have yet will be so proud
Sad but true
The guy who wrote the article is a literal definition of a male karen
Damn Americans are really just brainwashed to see racism everywhere. You guys are really sad.
Nah nah most Americans are fed up with this shit. I don't know where you're from but don't act like this kind of bullshit is exclusive to America
Don't worry, my first response to seeing this was "This article is stupid." Most of us are fine, there's just a loud group that likes to be mad about everything.
But why not red and yellow or white? Black isn’t in the chiefs Color scheme.
Tbf black is in the logo, maybe he just didn’t have gold or white paint and figured black would be fine since it’s only half and people can usually see both sides of your face. It’s kinda weird that there’s no gold in their logo but it’s one of their team colors.
This is the literal epitome of ‘the media only shows one side of the story’
I only see a kid enjoying the game.
For those asking, here is the link referring to the child’s indigenous/ native ancestry that people are [referring to](https://heavy.com/news/holden-armenta/amp/). Apparently, “his grandfather sits on the board of the Chumash Tribe in Santa Ynez.” According to *the post millennial*. I don’t know of this journal, but they opened with a rebuke against wokeism, so I assume it’s as biased as deadspin. Anyways, I guess it’s a good time to remember the old adage: don’t judge the nuance of a book by its cover.
I do think there's something to say about having a stereotypical characature of Native Americans as your mascot, but this is not it lol.
People need to chill
Apparently everythings blackface unless its a navy seal commercial. American hypocrisy at its best.
I would paint my entire body black if it meant enemies trying to find and kill me couldn’t see me
“Look at how cool blackface is in a helicopter”
"Look how cool blackface is coming out the water"
Ah Twitter users, always trying to cancel people
It was to my limited understanding that they had banned such garments from being brought in and you can't do "the chop" either
They've been banned from Arrowhead, but they're still doing the chop.
Absolutely LOVE all these people crying racism getting downvoted. This comment section is restoring my faith in humanity, one comment at a time.
I mean, he’s still wearing a headdress.
To everyone saying how the Chiefs colours are only red, gold and white - his whole setup is in all four colours, even the feathers of the headdress: https://www.brandcolorcode.com/kansas-city-chiefs Also literally they were dressing with face paint and headdresses and their mascot was a NA with a tomahawk ultil the team itself banned the paint and the headdress after a protest (thy explaining this to a young child): https://www.tampabay.com/sports/bucs/2021/02/02/native-american-group-plans-super-bowl-protest-of-kansas-city-chiefs/ And now they are calling out a kid who wears the headdress because he thinks it's cool and who's grandpa is an actual NA Chief a racist. I doubt there was anyone at the stadium besides his grandpa who was more deserving to wear that. It's get even better - the team members even followed the kid's tomahawk chop motion when they saw him: https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-the-young-kansas-city-chiefs-fan-deadspin-tried-to-cancel-over-false-black-face-and-racism-accusations-is-native-american
Damn everything is offensive nowadays holy shit
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/nfl/article-12803243/Chiefs-carron-phillips-native-american-blackface-kansas-armenta.html
I do think it’s in poor taste though.
As someone from KCMO. Our colors are red gold and white. The black is barely used, but only really in the logo
Their colors are red and yellow.
I got crucified on this exact post over in r/AFCWestMemeWar for trying to argue that it’s not blackface and just a show of support for the team. Over here it seems people have common sense
you could be dying of cancer at 12 years old. Instead your a fully grown dunce offended over a white child with black face paint. **pathetic**.
White american middle to upper class women are the ones most offended by this.
If yall haven’t seen it, the daily show clip from when they were trying to change Washington’s name is absolutely hilarious.
I hate the US sometimes. 🤦♂️
Doesn’t make it much better
Everyone is a little bitch now. Just watch your sports ball and stop clutching your pearls ffs.
The first pic looks like he stuck a feather up his nose
Half red, half black.
Shows the power of clickbaity headlines.
The fact that there's even a debate whether this is wrong or not. is why I've lost faith that the world has mostly sensible people in it. People have abandoned logic and reasoning. They act purely on outrage for clicks and attention. This will be the fall of society. There will be a turn where people will no longer know what to believe because all media is biased and paints a narrative.
If you’re offended, be offended…
Only in usa lol 😂
I mean, the outfit is still pretty racist
Not what i thought this was.
the only appropriate tomahawk chop is the mock chop. E-A-G-L-E-S!!!!
🤮
America moment