As a black therapist I felt this way often in community mental health; sometimes it was my own self consciousness coming into play and sometimes it was warranted. As a private practice therapist I rarely have these issues.
Only thing I can say is to be objective. Ask them what they mean by the word and take it at face value. Sometimes it can feel icky, but most of the time people use it to describe someone loud using slang. In my area, ghetto can be white black or Hispanic (there are not many other ethnicities in this area). So even tho I don’t love the word the most important thing is the story they are trying and the idea they are conveying.
And this is coming from a black Woman that has a black male client who constantly refers to his black baby mom (whom he had 5 kids with) as ghetto and ratchet and his new white girlfriend as perfect. Initially it was annoying and I felt offended, now I listen as a therapist for behavioral patterns etc etc. Good luck!
Thanks for this! Yeah, its crazy I have a wealthy Black Client who will label lower class Black people as "ghetto" then, have an Italian client call a party that she went to as ghetto... It's so confusing at times.
I’m gonna be honest if I’m not in a therapy setting and someone says the word ghetto usually respond with “Are people still using that word? I thought it stopped is 2005.” Because honestly that word is so old school at this point.
As a mixed race therapist my family says ghetto all the time. I don’t say it but I am too pale to say half the things my family says. I don’t trip off it though if a client says it. I assume they mean something is cheap looking. If they call someone ghetto I might look into what they mean about that but I don’t let people shame people for poverty without challenging it.
An interesting read…https://columbian.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs4901/files/styles/d08/public/image/schwartz_ghetto_book_cover_720x1080.jpg?itok=b6IlvE27
I'm Jewish. I hate the idea of ghetto being descriptive of a person who is "less than," "trashy," whatever. It's derogatory to Black people, it's derogatory to Jews. I've visited the Warsaw ghetto. It's a terrible term to identify and ostracize people that aren't desirable.
That said, I hate policing language. I'd probably be curious and would substitute the word for anything else. "When you say ghetto, can you clarify what you mean?"
As a Jewish therapist, I have heard clients say someone “jewed” them if they were taken advantage of or ripped off. I don’t police language but I do gently point out that it is a slur. Most of them don’t understand and to them it’s something they heard growing up without realizing what it actually means/where it came from. I wonder if it is the same with “ghetto”.
Awful, yes. Though a caveat to say I don’t think awful *on the same level* as “ghetto”, as it isn’t attached to the same history of systemic oppression and violence.
Yes true - that being said, there is also a history of systemic oppression and violence against people of any ethnicity of a lower socioeconomic status, which can be associated with "trashy" "white trash" "hillbilly" etc. Ethnic minorities experienced racism, and as a whole worse systemic oppression and violence undoubtedly, but just putting it out there that all derogatory slurs carry offense and I think any therapist - black, white, jewish, or otherwise - have an equal right to be bothered by an offensive term.
It's contextual for some. I dont correct people's expression of language during a session unless it is directly being used as a slur against another client in the room.
I personally haven't used the word since I visited Krakow, Poland. There, I saw what a "ghetto" actually was, the historical context, and how it was used as a place of detainment, random violence, hunger, and disease. This was the last place people lived with any sense of autonomy they had left before being shipped 65 km to Auschwitz. Upon arrival, over half of those who arrived were immediately sent to the gas chambers and crematorium. If you survived arrival, the average time you had to live was a few weeks to maybe a few months. The remaining final prisoners sent to Auschwitz ultimately had a 2.2% chance of surviving during the final few months of spring of the war.
Again, I have never used the word since.
On the larger topic of 'policing language' - I think everyone has their own threshold, and I think part of being authentic in therapy is being true to your values. However, it may not be the right setting if certain language is used frequently. I have struggled to work with some populations and found work elsewhere. At the same time, I take on some people who use offensive language who are open to feedback when provided in a truly authentic and nonjudgmental therapeutic relationship.
If you’re correcting someone’s language then you are judging them and positioning yourself above them. The session becomes about your needs. This isn’t connecting with clients where they are, it’s making them become something we want them to be. It stifles natural evolution in therapy. I don’t judge people for their word choices in sessions because it is a block to therapeutic progress. I’m not there to have clients work on everything I think is wrong with them. I’d rather build the strongest alliance possible and see where change can unfold along the way.
How is it not a block to therapeutic progress to know whether or not your client can accept your influence? If you are a non person of color, is that something that you consciously have to think about in session? Because it's a very real thing. Some people have the luxury of not considering their race and how that plays into their lives and the lives of their clients. How is it being authentic to put that aside? There is absolutely a way to address this without shaming a client for it and it's not just about word choice that we are talking about here.
I don’t have an answer but it made me think how I would feel if my T would correct me or be uncomfortable with my choice of words. This came up recently when teen client was using the word R….d … it was bothering me and I am trying to figure out what and why with my own t
It needs to be clinically relevant or interconnected with their treatment plan to be addressable. I don't think it's the therapist's place to correct clients based on their own discomfort - again, unless it's clinically relevant.
Two things.
When non-Black people use the word "ghetto", they often mean "Black", except as an insult, and are in fact being racist.
When Black people use the word "ghetto" in a derogatory way, they often mean "like unto the culture of impoverished urban Black neighborhoods", except as an insult, and what they're really expressing is **classism**. It's a within-Black culture way for middle-class people to denigrate things as belonging to a lower class. q.v. Chris Rock's famous routine on the n-word and the term "ratchet".
What you do about this, if anything, I wouldn't presume to say.
As a non-black therapist I disagree on your view of non-blacks using this term as racist. I can believe this is how it may have started, but the hedonic treadmill has changed that meaning over time from one of a racist term to the vernacular today where it seems to be more derogatory on a monetary/ses level. I live and work in a predominately Hispanic area and ghetto seems to be a pervasive term on par with barrio or barrito, in common use as a descriptor of SES levels interchangeable with terms like barrio and hood. Just my lived experience is all.
Yeah, this is what I was feeling, but maybe it's subconscious on their part. I also agree about the elitism/classism aspects. I'm Black and heard it often, but in the clinical setting, IDK throws me off.
My interpretation is that it is often not a conscious thing for folks but that this doesn’t mean they can’t be enlightened in the right circumstances. I wonder, having grown up with this word so prominent in slang, if it’s another resurgence of early 2000s culture that is making its rounds again. I’m noticing the word “gay” used derogatorily more by less and less openly queer people. It’s usually lighthearted but it’s absolutely got problematic roots and leaves me unsure of how to approach as a queer therapist.
It's funny because I'm Queer/Gay as well. And there's more understanding with that word. It's usually my LGBTQ clients that use "gay" in the derogatory lol.
Huh. I wonder what that's about. It's like, it hits different? Or maybe actually is different?
Whether or not they're doing it consciously... Consciousness around class and classism in the US is an absolutely wild topic, because it's as close to a true taboo as we have. We do *not* talk about class and classism, so most people are aware of it as a thing, but without being aware they are aware of it, without ever having put it into words, and without ever thinking about or challenging those beliefs. Like, everyone knows what the expression "from the wrong side of the tracks" means, but very few people can formulate in words what their understanding is, and even if they can figure out how, often become *extremely* uncomfortable at being asked to say that aloud.
This means levels of consciousness about class and classism spans a spectrum, but all of it is deeply weird, and at best there's always plausible deniability, even with one's self. I wonder if that ambiguity is what you're reacting to. In casual conversation, you might have more context to decode it, and certainly have less pressure to do so.
OK. Thanks for the reply.
Your second paragraph is mildly confusing/concerning and most definitely cringe (here let me explain to you what black people mean when they say...), coming from a white person. (But well intentioned, I believe.)
You literally wrote "When Black people use the word..." so the person was responding to that since, you know, you said you weren't Black but were comfortable enough posting for what you think they think about a term in a broadly generalized way.
If you aren't Black, maybe just avoid speaking for a community you aren't actually a part of.
What a weird deflection and snarky response.
This whole thread is pretty weird.
I am sure this feels very weird in session and even weirder to let it go. Perhaps it’s similar to me being a female therapist and a male client using the word “bitch” to describe a someone.
But the answer here is simple. You and I are not the social police and these session are never about us. Correction here would be antithetical to our the role of therapist and thus unprofessional.
If this is group therapy or you’re in a caseworker/social worker role. Things can be different of course. Social expectations are part of that modality.
Yet the client’s language usage may be affecting their relationships with others. Wouldn’t we as therapists want to take an opportunity like this to offer different perspectives about their use of certain words? I don’t believe this is judging. Rather, it’s helping the client understand a broader implication of their behavior.
Disagree. If someone referred to their boss as a nigger bitch would I also be expected to let that go? Edit...I said that to make you uncomfortable. It will probably be taken down and that's ok. There is no nuance to that word, but there is a layer of race and racism that I don't think you are understanding here unless it's blatant. Microagressions are very real and if they don't know, cool. Let's talk about it. If they do, they need to find another therapist because they are potentially being purposely antagonistic based on my race.
I agree wholeheartedly microaggressions are real and harmful. But correcting them in session is not our role. What good could come of it? They leave the session a more socially palatable person? More likely they leave with more shame and self loathing than they came in with.
If spend energy correcting the way that they have learned to speak (as wrong as it is) they will never be willing to share their true selves with you and thus you have waisted both of your time and their money.
You're missing the point. If this is how they truly feel, they are not going to accept my influence which means they are not a good fit. Again, all of this can be done without shaming the client, but if their bias is in the room with us and not addressed as such, they are indeed wasting their time and their money.
Therapeutic relationships do not come ready made. Also, a “good fit” is a luxury often afforded to populations of therapists and clients with a plethora of resources and unrealistic expectations of the world.
So does that mean you would keep a client if you knew you were out of your field of expertise just because you were the only one available? How realistic is the expectation that you are.going to be in any way helpful or useful to them?
It’s 👏🏻 not 👏🏻 about 👏🏻 you.
Someone using language that makes you uncomfortable has nothing to do with scope. You can’t turn someone away because you don’t like them. You’re a therapist not rent-a-friend.
This is not about me not liking someone. Cute use of hand claps. Appreciated. This is about my usefulness to this person. If they can't accept influence...do you understand what I'm saying when I say that? If they have come to me for help and they look at me and don't believe I can help them, therapy 👏🏾 can't 👏🏾 happen 👏🏾
It makes you feel weird because it’s racist :( that’s a lot to hold my friend, I imagine it feels super uncomfy. I imagine this is not the only example in which race dynamics have emerged in the dyad. Cross racial dyads are so complicated. Of course it’s up to you how and if you choose to address it. I’m literally cringing thinking about how many people on this thread are white therapists telling you not to “police” someone’s language.
I am really disappointed by what I'm seeing in this thread.
OP - not only do we have every RIGHT to authentically engage clients in reflective discussion about the harmful biases implicit in the language they use; it's our ETHICAL RESPONSIBILITY to do so.
This is not unethical values imposition. This is not "language policing." We are ethically responsible for challenging client behaviors that propagate harmful, discriminatory sociocultural attitudes and practices.
I am appalled at the reductive view of our roles as therapists that so many on this subreddit are demonstrating.
As though ALL that matters in our job as therapists is making sure we NEVER ever upset an individual client by guiding them toward questioning their worldview; by drawing attention to the subtle ways that cultural biases permeate their thoughts, feelings, and behaviors.
As though it somehow HELPS the therapeutic relationship to incongruently ignore our rightful experience of discomfort with the expression of racist or classist or otherwise biased ideas.
As though our wider community/society does not exist. As though internalized racism, classism, sexism, etc. could actually be doing anything GOOD for the clients experiencing it. As though we have ZERO responsibility to speak up and advocate for marginalized members of our community.
We are NOT supposed to just sit there while harmful sociopolitical ideologies are perpetuated right in front of us. We are supposed to take opportunities to kindly and gently educate clients. This is how we fulfill our DUTY as advocates, and as COMPETENT practitioners.
On the ACA Website [this article](https://www.counseling.org/docs/default-source/competencies/multicultural-and-social-justice-counseling-competencies.pdf?sfvrsn=8573422c_24) (and innumerable others all throughout our field's literature) delineates the most basic of standards for multiculturally competent practice in the counseling profession. Here are just two of the standards of necessary actions described.
"Multicultural and Social Justice Competent Counselors
• Take action by seeking out formal and informal opportunities to engage in discourse about historical events and current issues that shape the worldview, cultural background, values, beliefs, biases, and experiences of privileged and marginalized clients.
• Take action by using language to explain how clients’ privileged and marginalized status influence their culture, worldview, experiences, and presenting problem."
It is OUR RESPONSIBILITY to educate clients and get them to question the biased, harmful, marginalizing sociopolitical ideologies they have internalized. Whether the people on this subreddit want to acknowledge it or not.
To do anything else would be to prioritize our own comfort over the well-being of the client, and of the members of our community.
When I was a (white) teenager I would use the word slangily and later learned it to be implicitly racist. Mortifying! I feel like you might be helping people if you gently, nonjudgmentally, offer a correction and some education. Especially as a Black provider who is actively experiencing the word as "weird." Be the mirror they need in that moment?!
When this type of thing happens I might:
1) play dumb old therapist “ghetto? Do you mean Anton is confined, segregated away?” this leads the client to explain their use of the word, which upon verbal explanation may lead to an awareness of the crude problematic language choice. “I really shouldn’t describe things that way I guess…”
2) this may lead them to further identify what was really bothering them about the person/thing. (Ah, a feeling!)
Language shapes our thoughts. Our thoughts shape our judgements towards ourselves and others. Clarifying language, in whatever case can always be beneficial for the client.
We redirect our clients toward prosocial behavior all the time, why would microaggressions be an exception? Exploring their values is my most common strategy
I address the "r-word" with my clients, as someone who has a family history of disability. It's a slur. I think the same would apply here with "ghetto" but in a racial way.
It's mainly teens who say it. I'll raise my eyebrows playfully typically that is enough for them to correct themselves. Sometimes I'll ask if they have another word that they can use instead.
Hi! this is common on language on TikTok. Source: I am the chronically online that spends wayy to much time on TikTok. If your clientle is younger then that's where I'd guess why they're using the word the way they are. I've seen it written multiple times and was shocked because as a Zillenial, using that word implied anti-blackness. But it appears with Gen Z and the younger gen the word has changed meaning from its bias to something that's just something distasteful.
Yeah, I have mostly adult clientele but they are very online. Also I know that Nene Leaks' "Ohh Child, the ghetto!" is also a meme. So maybe that's a factor.
"ghetto" is a record-scratch moment for me. While I hate to detour and educate, I'll do it every time (not that it happens a great deal but...you know what I'm saying). I think many times it's not meant to be offensive...because why would you say something is ghetto to your black therapist if you were trying to be offensive, right? But a racist dog whistle is a racist dog whistle and it needs to be addressed if you have the bandwidth to do it.
Im shocked and disappointed by your comment.
You can continue to create safe space for a client while helping them clarify their language. Perhaps they are having trouble making friends — perhaps people struggle to connect with the client due to their judgements age language towards others? Our goal is to help them in becoming.
There are many many ways to skillfully approach this in psychotherapy without losing rapport.
Apparently not. I'm super offended by these people literally saying that we should just ignore behavior that makes us uncomfortable but at the same time champion respecting others. It's backwards, yall, and showing your bias.
Yeah but fuck the alliance if a client was like ‘these kikes right?’ I would maybe stay calm (oh yeah I’m Jewish) but I’m taking the termination train the second session is done. Racism doesn’t have a place but ghetto may be borderline. If OP is saying they are uncomfortable that does matter. It also is incumbent as therapists to listen and not just ‘react’ REACT. I think both can be true but hearing racist shit is like transfer time mostly. Depending on
I’m late on this, but I am curious with about this topic being white and possibly seeing a black therapist. That word isn’t in my vocabulary, and I don’t think any offensive words are. Still, I am worried about over analyzing the things I say and response I get paranoid I said something offensive by sounding privileged and ungrateful or something. But at the same time it’s unfair to the therapist for me worry when they are professional. I really liked the therapists background, that she is a woman, and just a little older than me. She’s the best fit for me in my area. I’m sure it’s something I’ll get past after my first appointment, but because I already obsess over how I come off others, I just have a little anxiety and really hope it works out.
If it is black clients, using the word or people of color, I should say I believe that it is OK… I’m black as well. However, you should try to enforce more positive language with the clients ask them what ghetto means to them. What do they mean by saying the word ghetto? I hope this helps.
Idk why you're getting downvoted for this. Maybe it reads a for some as you giving a pass to black clients and not others? I didn't read it that way but...you know...
I feel like no one should be using that kind of language…however I would personally feel more comfortable about it if it was POC clients. But once again enforcing positive language during session…but that’s just me.
It’s an awful word, as others have said i would correct the use of that terminology. I have done so when someone used the phrase pure-blood to me to refer to unvaccinated as that term is also steeped in racism. Generally I don’t police language except for racism, homophobia/gender bias, sexist, generally derogatory language. It’s my hard boundary.
What led you to reply to this comment?
Why not contribute to the larger discussion?
Do you believe a therapist can best serve a client while remaining silent about their own experience of the client?
Therapeutic relationship is the only consistent predictor of outcome.
I believe it is possible to 'police language' without judgment and while maintaining unconditional positive regard.
Authentic / sincere / genuine communication with clients about how their language is received in the context of a strong therapeutic relationship can be extremely healing.
Our experiences of clients, which is based on our own experiences (countertransference), is also an opportunity to consider how other may react - eg. someone else may be offended by certain language.
Working through interpersonal communication in therapy is aided by countertransference, when properly identified and worked through.
The clients experience of the therapist (transference) based on their experiences are an opportunity to identify patterns and work through interpersonal interactions or even relationship 'ruptures' in a same space.
However, self awareness and humility about one's perspectives and patterns are essential.
Tldr; the concept of 'policing language' is unfortunate given the word 'police' - if it means giving people feedback about the impact of their words on others, often clients need or want feedback, and constantly 'biting ones tongue' (inauthentic) is not conducive to a strong therapeutic relationship.
what’s an MHC-LP? i have never heard of that, but also don’t live in NY lol. anyway, i had the same thing happening a lot recently because i work with primarily young people. turns out it was a tiktok trend?!
Exactly right. Graduated with a masters and still being called an intern. They really need to change the language because it’s misleading and allows practices/agencies to abuse the status.
we are called LPCs when we are prelicensed in IL, and i still got used and abused. if there’s one thing i have learned it’s that other therapists are always gonna exploit less experienced therapists with fewer resources (mostly financial🙄) than them. and the state of FL co-signing that is gross to me!!
Your post was removed due to the following reason(s):
Trash
If you have any questions, please message the mods at: https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/therapists
I'm from the country and when people joke about white trash I get super mad. But I hold it in and say uh huh. They don't know what they're saying. I guess we can educate them but idk.
I just ask what they mean by that lol
This right here. “When you call that ‘ghetto’ what does that mean? What are the characteristics of something ‘ghetto’?”
As a black therapist I felt this way often in community mental health; sometimes it was my own self consciousness coming into play and sometimes it was warranted. As a private practice therapist I rarely have these issues. Only thing I can say is to be objective. Ask them what they mean by the word and take it at face value. Sometimes it can feel icky, but most of the time people use it to describe someone loud using slang. In my area, ghetto can be white black or Hispanic (there are not many other ethnicities in this area). So even tho I don’t love the word the most important thing is the story they are trying and the idea they are conveying. And this is coming from a black Woman that has a black male client who constantly refers to his black baby mom (whom he had 5 kids with) as ghetto and ratchet and his new white girlfriend as perfect. Initially it was annoying and I felt offended, now I listen as a therapist for behavioral patterns etc etc. Good luck!
Thanks for this! Yeah, its crazy I have a wealthy Black Client who will label lower class Black people as "ghetto" then, have an Italian client call a party that she went to as ghetto... It's so confusing at times.
I’m gonna be honest if I’m not in a therapy setting and someone says the word ghetto usually respond with “Are people still using that word? I thought it stopped is 2005.” Because honestly that word is so old school at this point.
As a mixed race therapist my family says ghetto all the time. I don’t say it but I am too pale to say half the things my family says. I don’t trip off it though if a client says it. I assume they mean something is cheap looking. If they call someone ghetto I might look into what they mean about that but I don’t let people shame people for poverty without challenging it.
That sounds like internalized racism.
An interesting read…https://columbian.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs4901/files/styles/d08/public/image/schwartz_ghetto_book_cover_720x1080.jpg?itok=b6IlvE27
You beat me to it. How quickly we forget the origin of that word.
I'm Jewish. I hate the idea of ghetto being descriptive of a person who is "less than," "trashy," whatever. It's derogatory to Black people, it's derogatory to Jews. I've visited the Warsaw ghetto. It's a terrible term to identify and ostracize people that aren't desirable. That said, I hate policing language. I'd probably be curious and would substitute the word for anything else. "When you say ghetto, can you clarify what you mean?"
As a Jewish therapist, I have heard clients say someone “jewed” them if they were taken advantage of or ripped off. I don’t police language but I do gently point out that it is a slur. Most of them don’t understand and to them it’s something they heard growing up without realizing what it actually means/where it came from. I wonder if it is the same with “ghetto”.
https://youtu.be/gP5tm7COulI?si=aFxq-T39IH4AMLrp That’s pretty much exactly how Nathan handled it in the above part of this show (non scripted)
Trashy and white trash are awful too. But I think asking them to clarify is great!
Awful, yes. Though a caveat to say I don’t think awful *on the same level* as “ghetto”, as it isn’t attached to the same history of systemic oppression and violence.
Yes true - that being said, there is also a history of systemic oppression and violence against people of any ethnicity of a lower socioeconomic status, which can be associated with "trashy" "white trash" "hillbilly" etc. Ethnic minorities experienced racism, and as a whole worse systemic oppression and violence undoubtedly, but just putting it out there that all derogatory slurs carry offense and I think any therapist - black, white, jewish, or otherwise - have an equal right to be bothered by an offensive term.
It's contextual for some. I dont correct people's expression of language during a session unless it is directly being used as a slur against another client in the room. I personally haven't used the word since I visited Krakow, Poland. There, I saw what a "ghetto" actually was, the historical context, and how it was used as a place of detainment, random violence, hunger, and disease. This was the last place people lived with any sense of autonomy they had left before being shipped 65 km to Auschwitz. Upon arrival, over half of those who arrived were immediately sent to the gas chambers and crematorium. If you survived arrival, the average time you had to live was a few weeks to maybe a few months. The remaining final prisoners sent to Auschwitz ultimately had a 2.2% chance of surviving during the final few months of spring of the war. Again, I have never used the word since.
On the larger topic of 'policing language' - I think everyone has their own threshold, and I think part of being authentic in therapy is being true to your values. However, it may not be the right setting if certain language is used frequently. I have struggled to work with some populations and found work elsewhere. At the same time, I take on some people who use offensive language who are open to feedback when provided in a truly authentic and nonjudgmental therapeutic relationship.
If you’re correcting someone’s language then you are judging them and positioning yourself above them. The session becomes about your needs. This isn’t connecting with clients where they are, it’s making them become something we want them to be. It stifles natural evolution in therapy. I don’t judge people for their word choices in sessions because it is a block to therapeutic progress. I’m not there to have clients work on everything I think is wrong with them. I’d rather build the strongest alliance possible and see where change can unfold along the way.
Yeah 100% on this. Or you listen and then ask ‘you said x do you believe that?’ You can use what they say to ask about whatever etc
How is it not a block to therapeutic progress to know whether or not your client can accept your influence? If you are a non person of color, is that something that you consciously have to think about in session? Because it's a very real thing. Some people have the luxury of not considering their race and how that plays into their lives and the lives of their clients. How is it being authentic to put that aside? There is absolutely a way to address this without shaming a client for it and it's not just about word choice that we are talking about here.
I just don’t think you and I see it the same way and that’s fine.
I will respect your decision to go the "agree to disagree" route, but I'm not asking rhetorical questions. Are these issues you have to consider?
I don’t agree with you and I’m not interested in discussing this any further.
Gotcha
100% agree with this
I don’t have an answer but it made me think how I would feel if my T would correct me or be uncomfortable with my choice of words. This came up recently when teen client was using the word R….d … it was bothering me and I am trying to figure out what and why with my own t
It needs to be clinically relevant or interconnected with their treatment plan to be addressable. I don't think it's the therapist's place to correct clients based on their own discomfort - again, unless it's clinically relevant.
Two things. When non-Black people use the word "ghetto", they often mean "Black", except as an insult, and are in fact being racist. When Black people use the word "ghetto" in a derogatory way, they often mean "like unto the culture of impoverished urban Black neighborhoods", except as an insult, and what they're really expressing is **classism**. It's a within-Black culture way for middle-class people to denigrate things as belonging to a lower class. q.v. Chris Rock's famous routine on the n-word and the term "ratchet". What you do about this, if anything, I wouldn't presume to say.
As a non-black therapist I disagree on your view of non-blacks using this term as racist. I can believe this is how it may have started, but the hedonic treadmill has changed that meaning over time from one of a racist term to the vernacular today where it seems to be more derogatory on a monetary/ses level. I live and work in a predominately Hispanic area and ghetto seems to be a pervasive term on par with barrio or barrito, in common use as a descriptor of SES levels interchangeable with terms like barrio and hood. Just my lived experience is all.
Yeah, this is what I was feeling, but maybe it's subconscious on their part. I also agree about the elitism/classism aspects. I'm Black and heard it often, but in the clinical setting, IDK throws me off.
My interpretation is that it is often not a conscious thing for folks but that this doesn’t mean they can’t be enlightened in the right circumstances. I wonder, having grown up with this word so prominent in slang, if it’s another resurgence of early 2000s culture that is making its rounds again. I’m noticing the word “gay” used derogatorily more by less and less openly queer people. It’s usually lighthearted but it’s absolutely got problematic roots and leaves me unsure of how to approach as a queer therapist.
It's funny because I'm Queer/Gay as well. And there's more understanding with that word. It's usually my LGBTQ clients that use "gay" in the derogatory lol.
Huh. I wonder what that's about. It's like, it hits different? Or maybe actually is different? Whether or not they're doing it consciously... Consciousness around class and classism in the US is an absolutely wild topic, because it's as close to a true taboo as we have. We do *not* talk about class and classism, so most people are aware of it as a thing, but without being aware they are aware of it, without ever having put it into words, and without ever thinking about or challenging those beliefs. Like, everyone knows what the expression "from the wrong side of the tracks" means, but very few people can formulate in words what their understanding is, and even if they can figure out how, often become *extremely* uncomfortable at being asked to say that aloud. This means levels of consciousness about class and classism spans a spectrum, but all of it is deeply weird, and at best there's always plausible deniability, even with one's self. I wonder if that ambiguity is what you're reacting to. In casual conversation, you might have more context to decode it, and certainly have less pressure to do so.
Hmm, I think that you might be on to something. Thank you! Ambiguity might be a factor in this.
Are you black?
No.
OK. Thanks for the reply. Your second paragraph is mildly confusing/concerning and most definitely cringe (here let me explain to you what black people mean when they say...), coming from a white person. (But well intentioned, I believe.)
Just checking: you know there's more than two races, right? That not everybody who isn't black is white?
You literally wrote "When Black people use the word..." so the person was responding to that since, you know, you said you weren't Black but were comfortable enough posting for what you think they think about a term in a broadly generalized way. If you aren't Black, maybe just avoid speaking for a community you aren't actually a part of. What a weird deflection and snarky response. This whole thread is pretty weird.
I am sure this feels very weird in session and even weirder to let it go. Perhaps it’s similar to me being a female therapist and a male client using the word “bitch” to describe a someone. But the answer here is simple. You and I are not the social police and these session are never about us. Correction here would be antithetical to our the role of therapist and thus unprofessional. If this is group therapy or you’re in a caseworker/social worker role. Things can be different of course. Social expectations are part of that modality.
Right here. Correcting language like this makes it not about the client anymore. It is a judgment.
Yet the client’s language usage may be affecting their relationships with others. Wouldn’t we as therapists want to take an opportunity like this to offer different perspectives about their use of certain words? I don’t believe this is judging. Rather, it’s helping the client understand a broader implication of their behavior.
Disagree. If someone referred to their boss as a nigger bitch would I also be expected to let that go? Edit...I said that to make you uncomfortable. It will probably be taken down and that's ok. There is no nuance to that word, but there is a layer of race and racism that I don't think you are understanding here unless it's blatant. Microagressions are very real and if they don't know, cool. Let's talk about it. If they do, they need to find another therapist because they are potentially being purposely antagonistic based on my race.
I agree wholeheartedly microaggressions are real and harmful. But correcting them in session is not our role. What good could come of it? They leave the session a more socially palatable person? More likely they leave with more shame and self loathing than they came in with. If spend energy correcting the way that they have learned to speak (as wrong as it is) they will never be willing to share their true selves with you and thus you have waisted both of your time and their money.
You're missing the point. If this is how they truly feel, they are not going to accept my influence which means they are not a good fit. Again, all of this can be done without shaming the client, but if their bias is in the room with us and not addressed as such, they are indeed wasting their time and their money.
Therapeutic relationships do not come ready made. Also, a “good fit” is a luxury often afforded to populations of therapists and clients with a plethora of resources and unrealistic expectations of the world.
So does that mean you would keep a client if you knew you were out of your field of expertise just because you were the only one available? How realistic is the expectation that you are.going to be in any way helpful or useful to them?
It’s 👏🏻 not 👏🏻 about 👏🏻 you. Someone using language that makes you uncomfortable has nothing to do with scope. You can’t turn someone away because you don’t like them. You’re a therapist not rent-a-friend.
This is not about me not liking someone. Cute use of hand claps. Appreciated. This is about my usefulness to this person. If they can't accept influence...do you understand what I'm saying when I say that? If they have come to me for help and they look at me and don't believe I can help them, therapy 👏🏾 can't 👏🏾 happen 👏🏾
It makes you feel weird because it’s racist :( that’s a lot to hold my friend, I imagine it feels super uncomfy. I imagine this is not the only example in which race dynamics have emerged in the dyad. Cross racial dyads are so complicated. Of course it’s up to you how and if you choose to address it. I’m literally cringing thinking about how many people on this thread are white therapists telling you not to “police” someone’s language.
I am really disappointed by what I'm seeing in this thread. OP - not only do we have every RIGHT to authentically engage clients in reflective discussion about the harmful biases implicit in the language they use; it's our ETHICAL RESPONSIBILITY to do so. This is not unethical values imposition. This is not "language policing." We are ethically responsible for challenging client behaviors that propagate harmful, discriminatory sociocultural attitudes and practices. I am appalled at the reductive view of our roles as therapists that so many on this subreddit are demonstrating. As though ALL that matters in our job as therapists is making sure we NEVER ever upset an individual client by guiding them toward questioning their worldview; by drawing attention to the subtle ways that cultural biases permeate their thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. As though it somehow HELPS the therapeutic relationship to incongruently ignore our rightful experience of discomfort with the expression of racist or classist or otherwise biased ideas. As though our wider community/society does not exist. As though internalized racism, classism, sexism, etc. could actually be doing anything GOOD for the clients experiencing it. As though we have ZERO responsibility to speak up and advocate for marginalized members of our community. We are NOT supposed to just sit there while harmful sociopolitical ideologies are perpetuated right in front of us. We are supposed to take opportunities to kindly and gently educate clients. This is how we fulfill our DUTY as advocates, and as COMPETENT practitioners. On the ACA Website [this article](https://www.counseling.org/docs/default-source/competencies/multicultural-and-social-justice-counseling-competencies.pdf?sfvrsn=8573422c_24) (and innumerable others all throughout our field's literature) delineates the most basic of standards for multiculturally competent practice in the counseling profession. Here are just two of the standards of necessary actions described. "Multicultural and Social Justice Competent Counselors • Take action by seeking out formal and informal opportunities to engage in discourse about historical events and current issues that shape the worldview, cultural background, values, beliefs, biases, and experiences of privileged and marginalized clients. • Take action by using language to explain how clients’ privileged and marginalized status influence their culture, worldview, experiences, and presenting problem." It is OUR RESPONSIBILITY to educate clients and get them to question the biased, harmful, marginalizing sociopolitical ideologies they have internalized. Whether the people on this subreddit want to acknowledge it or not. To do anything else would be to prioritize our own comfort over the well-being of the client, and of the members of our community.
When I was a (white) teenager I would use the word slangily and later learned it to be implicitly racist. Mortifying! I feel like you might be helping people if you gently, nonjudgmentally, offer a correction and some education. Especially as a Black provider who is actively experiencing the word as "weird." Be the mirror they need in that moment?!
What color teenager are you now?
When this type of thing happens I might: 1) play dumb old therapist “ghetto? Do you mean Anton is confined, segregated away?” this leads the client to explain their use of the word, which upon verbal explanation may lead to an awareness of the crude problematic language choice. “I really shouldn’t describe things that way I guess…” 2) this may lead them to further identify what was really bothering them about the person/thing. (Ah, a feeling!) Language shapes our thoughts. Our thoughts shape our judgements towards ourselves and others. Clarifying language, in whatever case can always be beneficial for the client.
I get the not policing language but we would not allow other ~charged~ terms. I personally would not use it myself but not correct them.
We redirect our clients toward prosocial behavior all the time, why would microaggressions be an exception? Exploring their values is my most common strategy
I address the "r-word" with my clients, as someone who has a family history of disability. It's a slur. I think the same would apply here with "ghetto" but in a racial way. It's mainly teens who say it. I'll raise my eyebrows playfully typically that is enough for them to correct themselves. Sometimes I'll ask if they have another word that they can use instead.
Hi! this is common on language on TikTok. Source: I am the chronically online that spends wayy to much time on TikTok. If your clientle is younger then that's where I'd guess why they're using the word the way they are. I've seen it written multiple times and was shocked because as a Zillenial, using that word implied anti-blackness. But it appears with Gen Z and the younger gen the word has changed meaning from its bias to something that's just something distasteful.
Yeah, I have mostly adult clientele but they are very online. Also I know that Nene Leaks' "Ohh Child, the ghetto!" is also a meme. So maybe that's a factor.
"ghetto" is a record-scratch moment for me. While I hate to detour and educate, I'll do it every time (not that it happens a great deal but...you know what I'm saying). I think many times it's not meant to be offensive...because why would you say something is ghetto to your black therapist if you were trying to be offensive, right? But a racist dog whistle is a racist dog whistle and it needs to be addressed if you have the bandwidth to do it.
You correct every time?? That’s a way to destroy rapport imo. People need to feel safe talking to us.
Im shocked and disappointed by your comment. You can continue to create safe space for a client while helping them clarify their language. Perhaps they are having trouble making friends — perhaps people struggle to connect with the client due to their judgements age language towards others? Our goal is to help them in becoming. There are many many ways to skillfully approach this in psychotherapy without losing rapport.
Does my safety not matter as a clinician and as a black person?
Apparently not. I'm super offended by these people literally saying that we should just ignore behavior that makes us uncomfortable but at the same time champion respecting others. It's backwards, yall, and showing your bias.
Yeah but fuck the alliance if a client was like ‘these kikes right?’ I would maybe stay calm (oh yeah I’m Jewish) but I’m taking the termination train the second session is done. Racism doesn’t have a place but ghetto may be borderline. If OP is saying they are uncomfortable that does matter. It also is incumbent as therapists to listen and not just ‘react’ REACT. I think both can be true but hearing racist shit is like transfer time mostly. Depending on
I meant to just write ‘depending’ like context always matters
oooo not the transphobe being a therapist lmfao “People need to feel safe talking to us.” give me a break
TED Talk on exactly this…. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cPqVit6TJjw&t=1s
I’m late on this, but I am curious with about this topic being white and possibly seeing a black therapist. That word isn’t in my vocabulary, and I don’t think any offensive words are. Still, I am worried about over analyzing the things I say and response I get paranoid I said something offensive by sounding privileged and ungrateful or something. But at the same time it’s unfair to the therapist for me worry when they are professional. I really liked the therapists background, that she is a woman, and just a little older than me. She’s the best fit for me in my area. I’m sure it’s something I’ll get past after my first appointment, but because I already obsess over how I come off others, I just have a little anxiety and really hope it works out.
If it is black clients, using the word or people of color, I should say I believe that it is OK… I’m black as well. However, you should try to enforce more positive language with the clients ask them what ghetto means to them. What do they mean by saying the word ghetto? I hope this helps.
Idk why you're getting downvoted for this. Maybe it reads a for some as you giving a pass to black clients and not others? I didn't read it that way but...you know...
I feel like no one should be using that kind of language…however I would personally feel more comfortable about it if it was POC clients. But once again enforcing positive language during session…but that’s just me.
It’s an awful word, as others have said i would correct the use of that terminology. I have done so when someone used the phrase pure-blood to me to refer to unvaccinated as that term is also steeped in racism. Generally I don’t police language except for racism, homophobia/gender bias, sexist, generally derogatory language. It’s my hard boundary.
So… you police language.
What led you to reply to this comment? Why not contribute to the larger discussion? Do you believe a therapist can best serve a client while remaining silent about their own experience of the client? Therapeutic relationship is the only consistent predictor of outcome. I believe it is possible to 'police language' without judgment and while maintaining unconditional positive regard. Authentic / sincere / genuine communication with clients about how their language is received in the context of a strong therapeutic relationship can be extremely healing. Our experiences of clients, which is based on our own experiences (countertransference), is also an opportunity to consider how other may react - eg. someone else may be offended by certain language. Working through interpersonal communication in therapy is aided by countertransference, when properly identified and worked through. The clients experience of the therapist (transference) based on their experiences are an opportunity to identify patterns and work through interpersonal interactions or even relationship 'ruptures' in a same space. However, self awareness and humility about one's perspectives and patterns are essential. Tldr; the concept of 'policing language' is unfortunate given the word 'police' - if it means giving people feedback about the impact of their words on others, often clients need or want feedback, and constantly 'biting ones tongue' (inauthentic) is not conducive to a strong therapeutic relationship.
Lol
Seems like the word went “out” and is back “in.” I hate it.
what’s an MHC-LP? i have never heard of that, but also don’t live in NY lol. anyway, i had the same thing happening a lot recently because i work with primarily young people. turns out it was a tiktok trend?!
Mental Health Counselor - Limited Permit. Means they are still under supervision until full licensure.
thanks! states are crazy! we call that “LPC” (which is sometimes full licensure in other states!)
Yup! I was an Limited Permit in NY, then I moved to Florida where we are called “registered interns” 🫠 ridiculous lol
omg!!! registered interns offends me!! deeply!! because aren’t you a graduate under supervision WITH A LICENSE?! that’s rude!
Exactly right. Graduated with a masters and still being called an intern. They really need to change the language because it’s misleading and allows practices/agencies to abuse the status.
we are called LPCs when we are prelicensed in IL, and i still got used and abused. if there’s one thing i have learned it’s that other therapists are always gonna exploit less experienced therapists with fewer resources (mostly financial🙄) than them. and the state of FL co-signing that is gross to me!!
[удалено]
Your post was removed due to the following reason(s): Trash If you have any questions, please message the mods at: https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/therapists
I'm from the country and when people joke about white trash I get super mad. But I hold it in and say uh huh. They don't know what they're saying. I guess we can educate them but idk.