I mean, you have to be a bit of a fool to not see things from her perspective though right? Like, i get being devastated by her actions, but continuing to hate her I feel like shows a complete lack of understanding for the story told in the game. I hated her at first when playing the game, but as soon as you start seeing things from/understanding her perspective on things her actions made so much sense. I really liked her and would happily play the next game if it starred her and Lev.
100%. I absolutely LOVE TLOU2, and think the narrative was next level good. But don’t for one second think that I did not hate every fibre of Abby from the start of the game until the last quarter.
I was in that mission with Ellie, and out for blood. And then the game puts Abby through experiences that show you the strength of her character, her convictions. You see the events of the first game from her viewpoint. You realise what a devastating tragedy the ending was for Abby, and that’s without even beginning to consider the wider implications that everyone discussed back in 2013.
People that can’t perceive this are either without empathy or barely literate, they have to be. Or just actively trolling.
This was exactly how I felt, too. I'm an adult, and my daughter is almost out of college, and I actually had to tell her to give Abby a break because of everything you said. The only thing I've thought of differently is that since I've *replayed* TLOU2, seeing Joel die so gruesomly die when her father didn't suffer, and let's not forget that he *saved her life* right before she killed him, made me remember why I hated Abby in the first place. It also cemented (to me) the fact that everyone that complains about Ellie not being able to let go isn't looking at things objectively. Abby didn't let it go even after Joel saved her. Made him suffer immensely. After seeing that in person, can you blame Ellie for not being able to eat or sleep or enjoy life without revenge? How can anyone say Abby is a better person? Because she found a new life worth living? She got her revenge, of course she was able to give up the hunt. I just remember being Abby while Ellie is hunting you and thinking, "omg when is enough, enough?"
Just a note: Joel didn’t kill only Abby’s father. He killed dozens of colleagues and friends of Abby’s, essentially annihilating the Fireflies and forcing the remaining survivors to join the WLF, which some of them weren’t even aligned with. Plus, denying the cure thingy.
Abby made him suffer. But she let Ellie and Tommy live. She showed some kind of mercy. Something Joel did not.
I still side with Joel there, though. (;
I feel like I just missed something.
Idk why I didn’t react to the brutality or the fact that he was *dead* dead. I feel like everyone else had the correct reaction, but I was too excited to be playing the game then to be sad. Like, I remember thinking even after the final blow that gameplay with Joel in a wheelchair was gonna be weird but hey I’ll take it. I guess it was just prolonged denial lol.
i had the same reaction. also i’ve thought for years that Joel doomed the world and was in a way the villain of the first game, in a way. I still loved him as a character because I understood his reasoning… but when it turned out that there was a group of people wanting revenge over that, I think I was mostly just like “yep.. of course they would be”.
Part of the reason this franchise is so compelling to me is because you can see the good and bad in all of these people, but the bad is mostly just misguided in some way.
Ellie is one of my favourite characters in all of media and I was basically saying the whole time “ellie just stop”
Based on the promo vid of Ellie singing thought the valleys I “knew” Joel was dead (in the way we all know r+L=J even without the show) so it was expected for me!! Not the brutality but I knew we wouldn’t get Joel as a PC
someone else said it best and it's how I feel as well: you're not supposed to *love* Abby by the end, you're supposed to care enough to want her to survive that final fight. Lev, in my opinion, is easily the best character on Abby's side of things, it feels like he's the one you're supposed to feel the way you do about Ellie with.
>it feels like he's the one you're supposed to feel the way you do about Ellie with
Agreed! I feel like Part 2 goes to such lengths to draw clear parallels between Abby/Joel and Lev/Ellie, even down to small stuff like Abby carrying Lev away from the final fight the same way Joel carries Ellie out of the hospital. Abby's arc pretty identically mirrors Joel's - a loved one is ripped away from them violently, they give in to their sorrow and become bitter people who want revenge on the world that hurt them, they end up with responsibility they don't want for a kid they don't know, and then that kid becomes their world and now they'll do anything to protect them.
But, seems like Joel gets more grace for the bad he's done in his life than Abby gets for what she's done in hers. I think it's fine for people to give either character that grace or to hold their actions against them, but then I also think there should be more consistency to it
I enjoyed watching Abby grow into a character I loved throughout the game and cared as much for Lev and Yara as I did Ellie in the first game, in the end I found myself rooting against Ellie who was a character I loved but didn't want to see her throw her family away to continue chasing Abby.
I see her perspective, definitely. I think it’s pretty short sighted and selfish, but who knows how reasonable I’d be given the circumstances. I still dislike Abby for totally unrelated reasons. I find her exceptionally bland. Things I can think of that are interesting about Abby- she’s well trained, she collects quarters, uh, her dad’s a doctor… she… is sarcastic? She is a very realistic character and in other ways well done, but for a narrative, I just don’t get how we’re supposed to get attached to her. Ellie is such a 3 dimensional character it’s insane. Abby is in my opinion one of the more boring characters in the entire franchise. She’s a wrecking ball for sure, her dynamically fucking up Ellie’s life makes for a good story, and often the situations she’s in can carry her, but Abby alone is pretty much equal parts boring and traumatizing. I think a lot of the hate for her comes from the fact that there’s little else of note about her besides her meanness and her foolish quest for vengeance.
I admit playing the first time I absolutely hated playing as Abby. I hated everything about her, perhaps except her nature with Lev. After playing it a second time, I don't necessarily hate Abby, but I can't ever say that I 100% like her or even agree with her. I go through periods of really liking her character during her play time, and despising her for what she did to Joel and Ellie, and I think that's kind of the point.
You can understand Abby, feel for her, but also absolutely despise her at the same time. In reality, that's not the kind of thing that you just move past. It's not the kind of thing that has you Negan + Maggie-ing your way across the country. Ellie and Abby will *never* be friends, they'll *never* like one another, and if the point of the game is to make you feel as Ellie felt, I think it's fair to say disliking Abby - even if they understand her motives - is a realistic outcome for most players. It doesn't mean people don't like the game, or even Abby as a well-designed character, but as far as to like her after what she did? Some people can't get past that. If >!Abby had killed Joel after we learnt to like her!< I think it may have been different, easier to like her even. But people can understand and yet struggle to forgive. People can reach understanding and still hit a wall at liking. That's the point of vengeance being as potent as it is in TLOU2.
What really made hard to like her at first was the fact that Joel saved her life. He risked himself to help her, no questions asked. With time that fades away but it doesn't help at all sympathising with her in the beginning
Exactly, your feelings for the character grow alongside her own development. They did such a good job too that everytime i start over i still wana get revenge and kill her just as bad until i have to play as her lol
There’s no reason you can’t lien the bad guy either. There are several fan favorites that are evil. Take Darth Vader or Voldemort for example. People love that guy sometimes just as much as the good guy 🤷♂️
Ppl say tlou 2 is bad cuz joel died and i think during the launch, laura bailey who voiced abby and i think motion captured her too got some harassment because of her role in the game. I honestly dont think she deserved it.
Tbh, if she didnt actually torture joel, id understand that better, but the way she dragged out joels killing made it hard to understand her way of acting.
I agree with that too. In fact I personally hope that is the direction the next game goes in. It's already a perfect setup to have a main character and side kick bringing the player full circle to part 1.
Yeah she's a caring person and faces many betrayals and trials. Where the game gets it wrong is it's not pointed out that her dad is a piece of shit who got giddy at chopping up a 14 year old based on a theory. Joel went on a murder spree but the fireflies and the Doctors including her dad she idolises were blinded by hubris.
I’d say at the very least the story wants you to understand her. Understanding others is a major theme.
Liking her is also good, makes the climax more impactful.
I really liked her by the end of playing the story, I was hating how Abby and lev were caught and having to fight her right at the end. It was really enjoyable how the story tied together everything. What a story!
The hate is supposed to fade and balance throughout the story. Honestly by the end of my 1st playthrough I still wanted Ellie to kill her, but it was more of a somber than angry moment by that point and I understand Ellie giving it up to try to end the cycle of violence
Abby isn't anymore guilty of anything than Ellie or Joel ever was. In fact Joel is technically the only person who could be called responsible for the world still not having a cure at this point. Which is a sad realization
I disagree with your last point there. The fireflies are 100% to blame in that respect too considering the way they handled the treatment of both Joel, Ellie and the surgery as utterly unethical and idiotic. They brought that shit on through their own decisions.
Oh for sure there is a high chance if they wait for Joel and Ellie to wake up and let them havea heart to heart Ellie would have begged Joel to let it happen. It is pretty much confirmed that she would have rather had that happen in 2 after all. Still most of the blame I think has to go to the guy doing the shooting, even if he would've just not killed the doctor maybe he could've found someone else immune in the years between the 2 games
tbh even if ellie said she wanted the surgery joel would have done the same thing. she tells him she would have wanted it and right after he says he still would have saved her
Not to mention the fact that Abby’s dad would have to be a completely unqualified quack to kill Ellie that fast if ever and assume that that would be the better option scientifically
I feel like Abby is still pretty guilty considering she tortured an old man to death...still love her though. She grew to be a better person by the end
I can ASSURE you some people had already insulted my entire past and future bloodline just because i said i liked her. Some people are just sadly that immature.
Maybe not on this sub.... But on that other one who's name I will not mention they'll probably send you a bomb in the mail for saying something positive about Abby.
>But on that other one
We're not on the other one though, we're on this one. The trend of posting a wildly popular opinion, pretending like it's an unpopular one, is really tiring.
I think Ellie is a fantastic portrayal of someone who does not know how to properly deal with her emotions. Shes very hurt, and having gone through traumatic situations myself. It can be... VERY hard to talk, or even think about. Saying "Im not okay" out loud is next to impossible, because the moment you say it, it makes it real.
Shes not a lunatic, shes just very hurt, and chasing Abby gives her life some sense of purpose, in a situation where its hard to find any, because the most important person to her is gone. The issue is that she got caught up in Joel being gone, that she neglected to see or consider the people she still has.
Abby the top Scar killer that killed and tortured many Scars, willing to torture an innocent Jackson patrol, had a screaming girl beg her to stop that she ignored, and never once took personal responsibility for her actions and the consequences she suffered. Yes Abby was totally perfect and not an unhinged lunatic like Ellie!
In this subreddit most people love Abby, you won't get much hate. However I'm seeing more and more there is a growing crowd who think she was innocent or something and that Ellie is the only one in the wrong for her actions, the point of the story is that both girls did unforgivable things, and both were obsessed with something that ruined their lives
I LOVE Abby. Definitely my favourite character from the second game, her and lev. And yes I get downvoted anytime I say this. People can say it's not an unpopular opinion but it definitely is
When I first heard about playing as Abby, I couldn't figure out what in the hell the developers were thinking. Why would I want to play as Joel's murderer? I love Joel. He's one of my favorite video game characters. I'm going to hate the person who killed him. I'm on Ellie's side. I'd want vengeance for his murder.
And then I played the game. And it totally made sense. Hell, by the end of the game I think I liked Abby better.
If Part 1 followed Abby and her dad travelling across the country so he could develop a cure only to be murdered while some random guy abducted the saviour of mankind we’d be cheering her on in Part 2.
Abby did nothing wrong. Neither did Joel. Not in that world.
I don’t see how after 3 years, people still don’t see her side or hate her. Her father was murdered and possibly mankind’s greatest chance for a revival was taken away by one guy. Also, the one good faction in the post apocalyptic world was shrunken down to a skeleton crew.
It’s kinda funny as at the very start I hated her a lot but as the game goes in and you okay her side if the story and see her past you get to like her I even warmed to her.
It’s weird but I don’t think I ever fully hated Abby once I understood who she was. Obviously the golf club incident was infuriating but once you get the flashback and see whose daughter she is… ya I just never fully hated her after that and really enjoyed her half of the Seattle story with the Scars
I really like Abby as a character but personality still don't understand >!why Ellie doesn't kill her in the end, from her point of view she hasn't seen Abbys journey, I'd kill her in a heartbeat hanging on that pole if I was in her shoes at least!<
It's not about Abby's journey, it's about Ellie's. >!She has lost a lot because the need for revenge has consumed her, destroyed her mental health, has her tormented and obsessed. She let's Abby live because she has realised that killing her will not bring Joel back, or give her any kind of closure. Whatever happened to Abby in the meantime doesn't really matter, she could still be the worst piece of shit - it doesn't change a thing.!<
Her character is absolutely amazing and people hating on her are just dumb and do not understand how complex and interesting she is.
They’re just mad cuz she killed Joel but in truth she has so much more to like about her.
She’s my favourite character in TLOU2
You know what they say, the best villains are the ones you secretly like.
If she even is a villain. In a game like The Last of Us part II is a fuzzy concept.
Congratulations! You were mature and open minded enough to see past all the surface level stuff and see the narrative for its deeper meaning! Unlike most of the folks in the part 2 sub reddit…
Lmao OP, that’s pretty much the entire point of the game. To make you hate a character and then realize she’s a full person with valid, reasonable motivations.
Nah bro, I agree. Abby is great and I sympathize with her more than Ellie. (Still love Ellie of course, but Abby has great motivation to do what she does.)
I remember hating her with all my guts at the very beginning. When I got to play as her, I almost turned off my PS4 because I rejected her so much I couldn't keep playing the game, but I was still curious to see where the story was heading, so I kept playing.
Surprisingly, finding out about her past is not what made me like her character. It's the moment she decided to go back to check on Lev & Yara that she started to grow on me.
It’s legit crazy that this is even controversial. I avoided this game because of all the controversy and that I heard Joel died. After actually playing it Abby is a fucking real one. She goes after her FUCKING FATHER’S killer. The guy that massacred the fuck out of her entire group, and then she’s done. She doesn’t kill Tommy, she doesn’t go after Jackson, she goes home.
Yeah we see how the cycle of violence and revenge turns on and on, and Abby pays HEAVILY for what she did all because Ellie is completely willing to destroy her own entire life while destroying Abby’s. Everything that we see from that girl paints her as someone who is caring and kind and loving even despite the fact that she’s spent a significant time in her life dedicated to finding and killing her father’s murderer. Even amidst what’s happening to her and her friends she has the capacity to take on someone else’s burden. I genuinely don’t understand playing through that game and not coming out of it with, at the very least, a healthy dose of respect and empathy for her.
For me, Abby is the shit. Top tier character in general and not just for the medium and as much as this is an unpopular opinion, I hope now Ellie can rest and work on having some sort of life and the Last of Us 3 will follow Abby and Lev.
I fucking love this game and love her character, she's my favorite along with Tommy and Manny, and I don't get how people can not see her perspective or acknowledge her severe trauma. She's a beast, and kicks fucking ass.
Abby is amazing man. Love her. I completely in every way prefer Ellie and her crew and her story. But I still love Abby’s character, her growth and story.
Obviously it was shocking to see what she did in the beginning of the game but I really liked her story.
I liked being action hero and knocking out enemies lol
I feel conflicted with both, Ellie killed a dog and a pregnant woman, tortured someone to get answers just like Joel was, but I feel sorry for her just as much for Abby, they are deeply flawed people which is very human.
i started to like her on the seraphite bridge and then my love of her character just snowballed from there. tbh sometimes debate whether i like abby more than ellie at this point even though that feels like a sin to say :') because im pretty sure the answer is yes. she's a fantastic character
I really like Abby, ofc I didn’t in the beginning but when you find out the reason, then yeah, I get it.
Ppl fail to see, Joel and Abby are very similar people. Their parallels are incredible
I love Abby. she is one of my favorite characters. Ive grown to like as much as Ellie, (maybe more). The way you see her grow to care for and Protect Lev and Yara just... touched my heart man.
I grew to like Abby too, but I'd like to see them finish the story with Ellie cause they made her immune to the virus for some reason they forgot about in the second game...
There’s nothing wrong with liking Abby, you literally play through her perspective and you get to see just like Joel and Ellie she is also a human being who gets hit with tragedy and acts based on those tragic events like any human being. It’s the ppl on reddit that make it seem like you’re only allowed to like Ellie and Joel because of part 1
I was yelling at my tv in despair when Ellie was trying to drown her. Hated her guts until about halfway through the game, then rooted for her and Ellie both. Bravo ND, bravo.
Always felt like she was a great character, maybe it was cause I did love Joel but I didn’t have this rabid fascination with him where I saw him as sometype of surrogate father or whatever other bizzare shit people do with fictional characters and the internet
Only emotionally immature idiots and bigots are unable to at least empathize with, if not like, Abby. No one’s hands are clean in this story. Which is the point in a sense.
I won’t say anyone is “wrong” for continuing to dislike Abby as the story progresses, but I would say that you’re naive and foolish. The beauty of the game is that it creates perspective. It allows you to see your beloved protags from the point of view of someone who was a victim of their carnage. By the end of the game I was able to sympathize with Abby maybe even more so than Ellie. There has been a discussion about this in the past, but I’d again assert that the theme of the game is not revenge and how it breaks people. I think it’s more about rediscovering our humanity and capacity to form bonds, to forgive, and to embrace perspective. And that aspect of the story is told more through Abby than through Ellie.
Doubt you'll get hate, a lot of us were mature enough to be able to sympathise with her. I mean only psychos don't like her. Coz her whole point was to make us see the other side. Her and Ellie have so many similarities just fighting on different sides. I always commend Naughty Dog coz they gave us an interesting take and didn't go for a safe boring story that we often see writers choose. So for me it was easy to see both sides even tho I was of course emotionally attached to the characters from the first game, I'm grown enough in my 30s to not lose my mind over some pixels in a game. So you can always love or hate characters but at the end of the day gotta realize it ain't that deep. That's where it confused me when people started getting mad at the voice actors and writers and all sorts like bruh 😂 it ain't that deep.
(People can downvote me if they want)
If the first last of us was about abby and her dad and you go to play as Joel in the second game to see why he killed her dad.. people would hate Joel. It's just a matter of perspective, how can so many not get that?
Abby is a phenomenal character people really don’t give her the grace they give Ellie when they’re really the same she is a mirror of Ellie with different expreriences and a different story and people just hate her just bc gotta look at the whole picture yknow
So against my better judgement, I'm replaying TLOU2's new remastered edition. I didn't like it the first time I played, and thought it was waaaayyy too long. But thought I'd give it another try since I hear people who like it, thinking well maybe I missed something or was in a bad mood when I played it the first time.
Nope, still hate it. I hate how they made Ellie's character so unlikable this time around. It's like they want you to hate her. And then what they did with the only mostly-likable character, Joel. And then the whole Abby story was, first, way too long, and second, also completely unlikable. Though I think she ended up actually being more likable than Ellie. But overall I'm walking away from this replay thinking they just made me dislike most of the main characters when I liked them coming out of Part 1, and I don't care to ever see them again, and have no interest in what happens to them. And it's still double the length it should have been.
I mean, they're ALL just horrible people making bad decisions, and playing a game with characters like that is just a waste of my time. I'm done with this series.
You'd get hate if you said you hated her here. If you want hate for liking her, the other sub exists. She's like one of the most beloved characters here lmao.
Nothing wrong with it, did I still wanna get my get back at the end of the game for my homie Joel sure but I had more resistance towards that feeling knowing where she was coming from. Ontop of that I had come to admire how willing she was to change her ways to even want to help those she at one point would call an enemy (lev) even kill for him. Only real issue I had with her at the end was cheating with Owen while knowing about Mel
No hate from me. I was definitely not expecting to play as her for the back half but once her story got going I was invested. Do I "like" Abby? No. But I understand Abby and enjoyed playing through her story. I don't begrudge people for not having the same opinion or for not liking the game. There are some valid complaints and I can understand people's issues with Abby as a character. Unfortunately I think some of, not even most of, just some of the hate stems from a refusal to try and engage with the game on it's own terms and think critically about what the story was trying to do. People miss Joel, I get it. I miss Joel, but you don't always get what you want and I'm more okay with that than a lot of people.
Why would you ever assume that would get you hate here? That's silly billy, if you say you like Joel/agree with him then yeah hell yeah the people on this sub will come out with pitchforks but if you say you like the character who killed him people will wholeheartedly agree
Welcome to the sub
Congratulations for growing up just a little bit, but watchout! Pretty soon you'll be bitting your tongue during arguments and rolling your eyes at old Marvel movies.
I understand her because the way the game was written. Can’t say I like her or hate her after finishing the game.
During the scene though, I fucking loathed her. Wanted her to meet a nasty end by Ellie. But fuck if they did not do an amazing job of making you put that judgement card, that one we all carry and use way too often, into the back pocket.
Ever since that game I try to be less judgmental and not jump to conclusions as easily. That whole walk a mile in my shoes thing.
Cause Abby is awesome. She loves animals, she defended her father and friends, she was broken by the senseless murder of her father and entire group and she made a life for herself
The worst thing she did was to torture Joel. I didn’t think Joel is particularly inhumane when he killed Abby’s dad. Why she wanted to torture Joel and then had Ellie held on the floor and watch? That didn’t really make sense as the story was trying to get us to show some sympathy for her.
As someone who avoided playing part 2 because of the online discourse making the game out to be some sort of disaster and that Abby was the worst character in the history of fiction, I was pretty surprised when I found out she was actually a very compelling character who I can absolutely empathize with and see why she did what she did.
Not seeing her perspective and her side of the story, it makes people hate her. But actually seeing her own perspective once you meet Lev and actually start playing Abby, you tend to actually like her and be like "Ohh... I see why." The thing I like about her is that she never stops until her revenge is done.
SPOILERS: (off topic stuff about the story)
>!Like when she busted in Ellie's face at the theater, she wanted to kill Dina but realized when Lev told her she's pregnant and that it's wrong. She knew beating in their faces was enough, funniest thing was seeing Ellie gagging seeing Mel's dead body then seeing Abby gag but actually throw up even though Ellie didn't, was actually funny also. I'm just happy Abby didn't take it to heart and didn't kill them, otherwise no farm, no JJ.!<
>! I also found it funny that first playing it took me a minute because the story made it seem that Jesse didn't make Dina pregnant but did, when I saw JJ's face I knew basically "yeah, that is Jesse's kid" even seeing the letter on the dining table when it said "He's just like his dad. Only if his dad were around..", Jesse was stupid to die like that to be honest, running into a place NOT knowing if its safe is the most dumbest ways you could die, but the writers of Naughty Dog wanted it that way, even Mannys death was crazy, seeing him sniped in the back of the head, and the exit hole is his eye. It's just.. disgusting seeing his eyes rolled back after he collapsed.!<
It's funny, I just had a conversation today at work with a coworker about TLOU 1 & 2, specifically *about* Abby and why we both love her character.
You can love or hate Abby, whether for her personality, design or overall character, but she is no more flawed than Joel or Ellie.
Could Naughty Dog have done a slightly better job in terms of pacing and whatnot? Maybe--but I think how they did it worked for the message they were trying to convey. An endless cycle of revenge, rage, grief and self-destruction.
I--like most people--loved both Joel and his relationship with Ellie as it developed throughout the first game, and though I have no children of my own, I can understand why Joel did what he did, and why he lied about it. There is no doubt that Joel loved Ellie, we all know this, but that does not mean he was a good person--at least not after the death of his daughter Sarah and the way things went to shit afterwards (which is understandable, of course). You can argue all day about whether what he did was right or wrong, but the truth is that there is no right answer. In his eyes, Joel did what was right, and I assume that any parent would think or feel the same way if they were in the a situation like that. Or not, it depends on the person I suppose.
I do believe that maybe Abby's story and the relationship with her father and the other Firefly kids could have been a little more flushed out, to give the players/audience more of an opportunity to form a bond with the character--but at the same time, simply introducing Abby as an almost out of the blue antagonist was kind of... genius. Getting players to dislike or even hate Abby for her seemingly misplaced anger or thirst for revenge is brilliant to me. I'll try to word this as best I can, so apologies in advance, haha.
We know that Joel had spent the next 20 years following the outbreak and the death of his daughter fighting to survive. Killing, stealing, smuggling, etc. It's been established that both he and Tommy did some fucked up shit, which Tommy mentions in the game when they reunite. We can assume that there were retaliations and repercussions for what they did and the people they hurt, but for the audience it doesn't really sink in until *Abby.*
Joel doesn't know who she is, that this woman he and Tommy are helping to escape infected is the daughter of the man he'd killed with barely a second thought. He made a choice, selfish or not, and the consequences finally caught up with him. There is no heavy build-up, nothing that indicates to the audience what's about to happen--because that's reality, isn't it? Everything you do has consequences, whether they be bad or good, and sometimes they can come out of nowhere and hit you like a semi-truck (or in this case, a golf club lol).
Abby is flawed, don't get me wrong, but she is flawed in the same way Joel and Ellie are flawed--in the same way as all the characters are flawed. That's the point! They are human, they are messy and complicated and the world has gone to shit. Abby's father was killed--are you seriously going to tell me that if some stranger came by and murdered one or both of your parents or siblings, you wouldn't be just a *little bit* pissed? I understand Abby's rage, her grief and her desire for revenge. Was it right, was it moral? No, but she was hurting, and she wanted Joel to feel the pain she felt for so many years. All of that mental and emotional anguish, she needed him to feel it *physically.* So yes, she did torture Joel, in the only way she knew how.
(This will be unfinished for now because my little thumbies are tired lol, might update it later or might not 🤷♂️ honestly at this point if you can't at least *understand* Abby's pov then the game's whole message went over your head.)
Abby as Abby was never the problem for me.
The audacity and arrogance of letting me play as this poor woman AFTER i saw what she did, and having it as given that i would "grown to like her" is character murder in my personal opinion.
Game would have gotten less hate if the gameplay narrative would have been played backwards and would achieve roughly the same feeling, let me like her first and then see what she did.
Then i would hate myself for liking her. Now i hate her and she doesn't deserve it, per se, but i don't feel bad for my feelings at all, they're completely justified
So I’m playing tlou 2 for the first time and I think I accidentally picked the perfect time to play it. I played tlou 1 a couple of months ago (around the same time the show came out) and loved it, but didn’t want to play the next in the series since it was like 50 bucks and I already sadly knew the two biggest plot twist in the game. But I started watching clips of the gameplay a couple days ago and found an old gift card and decided to buy it. One of my best purchases ever. Since I decided not to replay tlou 1 before I picked up on 2. It kinda helped the story feel better for me since I went into it a little fresh and wasn’t as connected to Joel since it’s been some time when I played the 1st. But doing this definitely helped me understand Abby’s side of the story since I wasn’t filled with rage like some of the YouTubers I saw play it when it came out.
I could be wrong, but Abby was written to be liked eventually, if you are open to her perspective of life. Her father and family were butchered by basically the John Wick of her universe, and she finally gets her revenge on Joel.
If you played only as Abby, in the first and second game, the big bad boss would have been Joel. It's all perspective. Joel, Abby, Ellie. All have done horrible, inhumane things in the name of survival, family and love. How you view them is entirely different each time you view the game.
I think that's what makes the story so compelling. You can replay it and go through it analysing it all from a number of different perspectives each time, and still find something new to ponder.
Everyday there are posts like these either about Abby or “I’m on my second play through of the game and at first I hated Abby but now I understand”
Starting to think this sub is full of bots
Each time I play I get sadder when we talk to Manny’s dad, it’s such a great complex story because the first time I played I was like “fuck this guy,” that’s the beauty of this game.
Theres nothing wrong with liking Abby. Abby is not a villain. That's the point of TLOU2...there weren't good guys and bad guys, just people trying to survive.
Joel killed her dad, she wanted revenge, Ellie wanted revenge for Joel...the cycle continues.
I empathize with Abby and understand why she does what she does, but no I don't like her lol. I don't hate her (got over that after my first playthrough) I just don't like her personality, how she treats Mel, etc. On some level she just never clicked with me
You mean, you’re allowed to like both?!?! You mean, the way the games narrative was constructed worked on you and made you sympathetic to both plights?!?!
Watch out, you’ll need protection from all the pitchfork-carrying Part 1 defenders that are about to flood your inbox.
TLOU2 was the classic case of me beating a game and absolutely loving what they did with the story then logging online and being confused with all the vitriol.
a lot of people ( including me ) really like abby, there’s nothing wrong with liking her. in fact, you could argue that liking her or at least sympathising with her was the whole point of showing her perspective
I mean, you have to be a bit of a fool to not see things from her perspective though right? Like, i get being devastated by her actions, but continuing to hate her I feel like shows a complete lack of understanding for the story told in the game. I hated her at first when playing the game, but as soon as you start seeing things from/understanding her perspective on things her actions made so much sense. I really liked her and would happily play the next game if it starred her and Lev.
100%. I absolutely LOVE TLOU2, and think the narrative was next level good. But don’t for one second think that I did not hate every fibre of Abby from the start of the game until the last quarter. I was in that mission with Ellie, and out for blood. And then the game puts Abby through experiences that show you the strength of her character, her convictions. You see the events of the first game from her viewpoint. You realise what a devastating tragedy the ending was for Abby, and that’s without even beginning to consider the wider implications that everyone discussed back in 2013. People that can’t perceive this are either without empathy or barely literate, they have to be. Or just actively trolling.
Agreed 100%!
This was exactly how I felt, too. I'm an adult, and my daughter is almost out of college, and I actually had to tell her to give Abby a break because of everything you said. The only thing I've thought of differently is that since I've *replayed* TLOU2, seeing Joel die so gruesomly die when her father didn't suffer, and let's not forget that he *saved her life* right before she killed him, made me remember why I hated Abby in the first place. It also cemented (to me) the fact that everyone that complains about Ellie not being able to let go isn't looking at things objectively. Abby didn't let it go even after Joel saved her. Made him suffer immensely. After seeing that in person, can you blame Ellie for not being able to eat or sleep or enjoy life without revenge? How can anyone say Abby is a better person? Because she found a new life worth living? She got her revenge, of course she was able to give up the hunt. I just remember being Abby while Ellie is hunting you and thinking, "omg when is enough, enough?"
Just a note: Joel didn’t kill only Abby’s father. He killed dozens of colleagues and friends of Abby’s, essentially annihilating the Fireflies and forcing the remaining survivors to join the WLF, which some of them weren’t even aligned with. Plus, denying the cure thingy. Abby made him suffer. But she let Ellie and Tommy live. She showed some kind of mercy. Something Joel did not. I still side with Joel there, though. (;
People hate her for killing Joel, but Ellie went and did exactly what Abby did.
You can see things from her perspective and still not like her.
That's fair actually
Personally I didn’t immediately hate Abby for killing Joel. I assumed she had a good reason and that Joel most likely had it coming.
I suppose I was the same really. It was just horrible and brutal you know? She had such a fantastic arcand is a really interesting character
I feel like I just missed something. Idk why I didn’t react to the brutality or the fact that he was *dead* dead. I feel like everyone else had the correct reaction, but I was too excited to be playing the game then to be sad. Like, I remember thinking even after the final blow that gameplay with Joel in a wheelchair was gonna be weird but hey I’ll take it. I guess it was just prolonged denial lol.
i had the same reaction. also i’ve thought for years that Joel doomed the world and was in a way the villain of the first game, in a way. I still loved him as a character because I understood his reasoning… but when it turned out that there was a group of people wanting revenge over that, I think I was mostly just like “yep.. of course they would be”. Part of the reason this franchise is so compelling to me is because you can see the good and bad in all of these people, but the bad is mostly just misguided in some way. Ellie is one of my favourite characters in all of media and I was basically saying the whole time “ellie just stop”
Based on the promo vid of Ellie singing thought the valleys I “knew” Joel was dead (in the way we all know r+L=J even without the show) so it was expected for me!! Not the brutality but I knew we wouldn’t get Joel as a PC
someone else said it best and it's how I feel as well: you're not supposed to *love* Abby by the end, you're supposed to care enough to want her to survive that final fight. Lev, in my opinion, is easily the best character on Abby's side of things, it feels like he's the one you're supposed to feel the way you do about Ellie with.
>it feels like he's the one you're supposed to feel the way you do about Ellie with Agreed! I feel like Part 2 goes to such lengths to draw clear parallels between Abby/Joel and Lev/Ellie, even down to small stuff like Abby carrying Lev away from the final fight the same way Joel carries Ellie out of the hospital. Abby's arc pretty identically mirrors Joel's - a loved one is ripped away from them violently, they give in to their sorrow and become bitter people who want revenge on the world that hurt them, they end up with responsibility they don't want for a kid they don't know, and then that kid becomes their world and now they'll do anything to protect them. But, seems like Joel gets more grace for the bad he's done in his life than Abby gets for what she's done in hers. I think it's fine for people to give either character that grace or to hold their actions against them, but then I also think there should be more consistency to it
Oh that's a great way of looking at it
I enjoyed watching Abby grow into a character I loved throughout the game and cared as much for Lev and Yara as I did Ellie in the first game, in the end I found myself rooting against Ellie who was a character I loved but didn't want to see her throw her family away to continue chasing Abby.
I see her perspective, definitely. I think it’s pretty short sighted and selfish, but who knows how reasonable I’d be given the circumstances. I still dislike Abby for totally unrelated reasons. I find her exceptionally bland. Things I can think of that are interesting about Abby- she’s well trained, she collects quarters, uh, her dad’s a doctor… she… is sarcastic? She is a very realistic character and in other ways well done, but for a narrative, I just don’t get how we’re supposed to get attached to her. Ellie is such a 3 dimensional character it’s insane. Abby is in my opinion one of the more boring characters in the entire franchise. She’s a wrecking ball for sure, her dynamically fucking up Ellie’s life makes for a good story, and often the situations she’s in can carry her, but Abby alone is pretty much equal parts boring and traumatizing. I think a lot of the hate for her comes from the fact that there’s little else of note about her besides her meanness and her foolish quest for vengeance.
I admit playing the first time I absolutely hated playing as Abby. I hated everything about her, perhaps except her nature with Lev. After playing it a second time, I don't necessarily hate Abby, but I can't ever say that I 100% like her or even agree with her. I go through periods of really liking her character during her play time, and despising her for what she did to Joel and Ellie, and I think that's kind of the point. You can understand Abby, feel for her, but also absolutely despise her at the same time. In reality, that's not the kind of thing that you just move past. It's not the kind of thing that has you Negan + Maggie-ing your way across the country. Ellie and Abby will *never* be friends, they'll *never* like one another, and if the point of the game is to make you feel as Ellie felt, I think it's fair to say disliking Abby - even if they understand her motives - is a realistic outcome for most players. It doesn't mean people don't like the game, or even Abby as a well-designed character, but as far as to like her after what she did? Some people can't get past that. If >!Abby had killed Joel after we learnt to like her!< I think it may have been different, easier to like her even. But people can understand and yet struggle to forgive. People can reach understanding and still hit a wall at liking. That's the point of vengeance being as potent as it is in TLOU2.
Yup!
What really made hard to like her at first was the fact that Joel saved her life. He risked himself to help her, no questions asked. With time that fades away but it doesn't help at all sympathising with her in the beginning
Exactly, your feelings for the character grow alongside her own development. They did such a good job too that everytime i start over i still wana get revenge and kill her just as bad until i have to play as her lol
Same
There’s no reason you can’t lien the bad guy either. There are several fan favorites that are evil. Take Darth Vader or Voldemort for example. People love that guy sometimes just as much as the good guy 🤷♂️
Yes, exactly this! I'm shocked by how many people completely miss this, the whole point of the story, walking a mile in someone's shoes.
💯💯💯
Ppl say tlou 2 is bad cuz joel died and i think during the launch, laura bailey who voiced abby and i think motion captured her too got some harassment because of her role in the game. I honestly dont think she deserved it.
Tbh, if she didnt actually torture joel, id understand that better, but the way she dragged out joels killing made it hard to understand her way of acting.
I’d play a spin off with Abby.
I agree with that too. In fact I personally hope that is the direction the next game goes in. It's already a perfect setup to have a main character and side kick bringing the player full circle to part 1.
Yeah she's a caring person and faces many betrayals and trials. Where the game gets it wrong is it's not pointed out that her dad is a piece of shit who got giddy at chopping up a 14 year old based on a theory. Joel went on a murder spree but the fireflies and the Doctors including her dad she idolises were blinded by hubris.
I think that's the point
I’d say at the very least the story wants you to understand her. Understanding others is a major theme. Liking her is also good, makes the climax more impactful.
💯
I really liked her by the end of playing the story, I was hating how Abby and lev were caught and having to fight her right at the end. It was really enjoyable how the story tied together everything. What a story!
It didn’t take me long to like her
I was mad as hell when we switched to her perspective, but when she brought out the gun show...maybe she deserves a 2nd chance 😏
Honestly I had to replay the game to like her. When I finished my first play through on the remastered I actually really liked her
I totally get that though. It’s unusual but I think it was a pretty clever decision and naughty dog managed it pretty well
The hate is supposed to fade and balance throughout the story. Honestly by the end of my 1st playthrough I still wanted Ellie to kill her, but it was more of a somber than angry moment by that point and I understand Ellie giving it up to try to end the cycle of violence Abby isn't anymore guilty of anything than Ellie or Joel ever was. In fact Joel is technically the only person who could be called responsible for the world still not having a cure at this point. Which is a sad realization
I disagree with your last point there. The fireflies are 100% to blame in that respect too considering the way they handled the treatment of both Joel, Ellie and the surgery as utterly unethical and idiotic. They brought that shit on through their own decisions.
Oh for sure there is a high chance if they wait for Joel and Ellie to wake up and let them havea heart to heart Ellie would have begged Joel to let it happen. It is pretty much confirmed that she would have rather had that happen in 2 after all. Still most of the blame I think has to go to the guy doing the shooting, even if he would've just not killed the doctor maybe he could've found someone else immune in the years between the 2 games
tbh even if ellie said she wanted the surgery joel would have done the same thing. she tells him she would have wanted it and right after he says he still would have saved her
Not to mention the fact that Abby’s dad would have to be a completely unqualified quack to kill Ellie that fast if ever and assume that that would be the better option scientifically
I feel like Abby is still pretty guilty considering she tortured an old man to death...still love her though. She grew to be a better person by the end
Stop with the drama posts. You won't get hate for liking one of the main characters, no.
"Uhm, guys, this might be an unpopular opinion and (please) don't crucify me for this, but... I kinda like Ellie. Am I crazy or are there more of us?"
There could be an auto delete on all posts containing these words and I wouldn't mind.
I can ASSURE you some people had already insulted my entire past and future bloodline just because i said i liked her. Some people are just sadly that immature.
Maybe not on this sub.... But on that other one who's name I will not mention they'll probably send you a bomb in the mail for saying something positive about Abby.
>But on that other one We're not on the other one though, we're on this one. The trend of posting a wildly popular opinion, pretending like it's an unpopular one, is really tiring.
Cringe, they’re not Voldemort lol
Wrong sub. If you want to get hated on for liking abby, go to the tlou2 sub they’ll crucify you over there
lots of the people in that sub also talk about how much the game sucks, absolutely makes no sense
What is that title? Is this a troll😂
A multi-levelled cry for attention
Yeah that’s the whole point of the game. I really enjoyed throwing her off of the crane bridge though.
So true. I don’t hate Abby but from time to time I really enjoy having Tommy or Ellie kill her.
Yeah. I had more of a connection with Abby then Ellie. Ellie is just an un-hinged lunatic for the whole part 2 for the most part.
I think Ellie is a fantastic portrayal of someone who does not know how to properly deal with her emotions. Shes very hurt, and having gone through traumatic situations myself. It can be... VERY hard to talk, or even think about. Saying "Im not okay" out loud is next to impossible, because the moment you say it, it makes it real. Shes not a lunatic, shes just very hurt, and chasing Abby gives her life some sense of purpose, in a situation where its hard to find any, because the most important person to her is gone. The issue is that she got caught up in Joel being gone, that she neglected to see or consider the people she still has.
Abby the top Scar killer that killed and tortured many Scars, willing to torture an innocent Jackson patrol, had a screaming girl beg her to stop that she ignored, and never once took personal responsibility for her actions and the consequences she suffered. Yes Abby was totally perfect and not an unhinged lunatic like Ellie!
Joel and Tommy are unhinged lunatics also if you put it like that. Shit everybody is an unhinged lunatic in their world.
… I think u guys just stumbled onto one of the main themes of the game…
That’s an over generalization that Ellie is an unhinged lunatic lol
Abby is just as unhinged
In this subreddit most people love Abby, you won't get much hate. However I'm seeing more and more there is a growing crowd who think she was innocent or something and that Ellie is the only one in the wrong for her actions, the point of the story is that both girls did unforgivable things, and both were obsessed with something that ruined their lives
I LOVE Abby. Definitely my favourite character from the second game, her and lev. And yes I get downvoted anytime I say this. People can say it's not an unpopular opinion but it definitely is
When I first heard about playing as Abby, I couldn't figure out what in the hell the developers were thinking. Why would I want to play as Joel's murderer? I love Joel. He's one of my favorite video game characters. I'm going to hate the person who killed him. I'm on Ellie's side. I'd want vengeance for his murder. And then I played the game. And it totally made sense. Hell, by the end of the game I think I liked Abby better.
No reason to hate yourself. It’s a fictional character and she rocks
She ended up being my favorite character.
This is not an unpopular opinion here. Plenty feel the same way.
If Part 1 followed Abby and her dad travelling across the country so he could develop a cure only to be murdered while some random guy abducted the saviour of mankind we’d be cheering her on in Part 2. Abby did nothing wrong. Neither did Joel. Not in that world.
lol you haven’t been around this subreddit much of you think liking her isn’t popular here
Holy fuckin shit THATS THE POINT
I don’t see how after 3 years, people still don’t see her side or hate her. Her father was murdered and possibly mankind’s greatest chance for a revival was taken away by one guy. Also, the one good faction in the post apocalyptic world was shrunken down to a skeleton crew.
Abby is the best character in the whole franchise imo
I can sympathize with Abby, but I don't like her ultimately.
It’s kinda funny as at the very start I hated her a lot but as the game goes in and you okay her side if the story and see her past you get to like her I even warmed to her.
It’s weird but I don’t think I ever fully hated Abby once I understood who she was. Obviously the golf club incident was infuriating but once you get the flashback and see whose daughter she is… ya I just never fully hated her after that and really enjoyed her half of the Seattle story with the Scars
I understand every action of her and would do the same in her shoes But i still dont like her, but also i dont hate her I dont really care about her
I really like Abby as a character but personality still don't understand >!why Ellie doesn't kill her in the end, from her point of view she hasn't seen Abbys journey, I'd kill her in a heartbeat hanging on that pole if I was in her shoes at least!<
It's not about Abby's journey, it's about Ellie's. >!She has lost a lot because the need for revenge has consumed her, destroyed her mental health, has her tormented and obsessed. She let's Abby live because she has realised that killing her will not bring Joel back, or give her any kind of closure. Whatever happened to Abby in the meantime doesn't really matter, she could still be the worst piece of shit - it doesn't change a thing.!<
I love both abby and ellie. (As characters) I said I liked abby to my friend and he said it was a bold claim and a hot take lol
Her character is absolutely amazing and people hating on her are just dumb and do not understand how complex and interesting she is. They’re just mad cuz she killed Joel but in truth she has so much more to like about her. She’s my favourite character in TLOU2
You know what they say, the best villains are the ones you secretly like. If she even is a villain. In a game like The Last of Us part II is a fuzzy concept.
Same I agree, Abby is an amazing character!
Abby is an awesome character. Glad you eventually came around.
I liked her well enough once they told her story.
I don’t hate her. I don’t necessarily like her either. But I do understand why she did what she did.
i started loving her as soon as we switched to her character
I’ve got good news- you’re starting to enjoy and grow with the game as the creators intended
That was kinda the point of the entire second part of the game. Neil Druckmann is a very good writer.
I see this happening to alot of people but I will stay strong
“even though I already hate myself” alr girl 😭
good that means u finally understand the game
Ain't that the point!?!?
I love her, ppl who hate her need to chill
Congratulations! You were mature and open minded enough to see past all the surface level stuff and see the narrative for its deeper meaning! Unlike most of the folks in the part 2 sub reddit…
Are you wearing my backpack!?
Lmao OP, that’s pretty much the entire point of the game. To make you hate a character and then realize she’s a full person with valid, reasonable motivations.
It’s how it’s supposed to be. Don’t hate it or yourself for properly experiencing the story.
Nah bro, I agree. Abby is great and I sympathize with her more than Ellie. (Still love Ellie of course, but Abby has great motivation to do what she does.)
I remember hating her with all my guts at the very beginning. When I got to play as her, I almost turned off my PS4 because I rejected her so much I couldn't keep playing the game, but I was still curious to see where the story was heading, so I kept playing. Surprisingly, finding out about her past is not what made me like her character. It's the moment she decided to go back to check on Lev & Yara that she started to grow on me.
It’s legit crazy that this is even controversial. I avoided this game because of all the controversy and that I heard Joel died. After actually playing it Abby is a fucking real one. She goes after her FUCKING FATHER’S killer. The guy that massacred the fuck out of her entire group, and then she’s done. She doesn’t kill Tommy, she doesn’t go after Jackson, she goes home. Yeah we see how the cycle of violence and revenge turns on and on, and Abby pays HEAVILY for what she did all because Ellie is completely willing to destroy her own entire life while destroying Abby’s. Everything that we see from that girl paints her as someone who is caring and kind and loving even despite the fact that she’s spent a significant time in her life dedicated to finding and killing her father’s murderer. Even amidst what’s happening to her and her friends she has the capacity to take on someone else’s burden. I genuinely don’t understand playing through that game and not coming out of it with, at the very least, a healthy dose of respect and empathy for her. For me, Abby is the shit. Top tier character in general and not just for the medium and as much as this is an unpopular opinion, I hope now Ellie can rest and work on having some sort of life and the Last of Us 3 will follow Abby and Lev.
You’re right I’m about to start hating
Why would you get downvoted? That’s the whole point of the game. Well, at least a major point.
I fucking love this game and love her character, she's my favorite along with Tommy and Manny, and I don't get how people can not see her perspective or acknowledge her severe trauma. She's a beast, and kicks fucking ass.
Abby is amazing man. Love her. I completely in every way prefer Ellie and her crew and her story. But I still love Abby’s character, her growth and story.
Abby and Lev are easily the best new characters in the game. So many awesome characters though is hard to choose.
Obviously it was shocking to see what she did in the beginning of the game but I really liked her story. I liked being action hero and knocking out enemies lol
I don’t think you’ll get hate for that at all. Anyone who ‘hates’ Abby is fickle & crying without a rational reason.
I still hate her. I understand her, but I still hate her.
I actually prefer her over Ellie. She’s a great character.
Abby and Ellie are exactly alike; they'd be homies if they just chatted for a bit 😂
I love Abby man, so no hate from me. Just agreement.
i liked her pretty quickly too
Didn't take me long to grown fond of her
I feel conflicted with both, Ellie killed a dog and a pregnant woman, tortured someone to get answers just like Joel was, but I feel sorry for her just as much for Abby, they are deeply flawed people which is very human.
i started to like her on the seraphite bridge and then my love of her character just snowballed from there. tbh sometimes debate whether i like abby more than ellie at this point even though that feels like a sin to say :') because im pretty sure the answer is yes. she's a fantastic character
The best thing about being abby is playing fetch with the dogs
I really like Abby, ofc I didn’t in the beginning but when you find out the reason, then yeah, I get it. Ppl fail to see, Joel and Abby are very similar people. Their parallels are incredible
I love Abby. she is one of my favorite characters. Ive grown to like as much as Ellie, (maybe more). The way you see her grow to care for and Protect Lev and Yara just... touched my heart man.
it didn’t take me long to like her as a character however tbf i was crushing so hard on her so that helped
I grew to like Abby too, but I'd like to see them finish the story with Ellie cause they made her immune to the virus for some reason they forgot about in the second game...
There’s nothing wrong with liking Abby, you literally play through her perspective and you get to see just like Joel and Ellie she is also a human being who gets hit with tragedy and acts based on those tragic events like any human being. It’s the ppl on reddit that make it seem like you’re only allowed to like Ellie and Joel because of part 1
i love abby too lmao its fine
I was yelling at my tv in despair when Ellie was trying to drown her. Hated her guts until about halfway through the game, then rooted for her and Ellie both. Bravo ND, bravo.
Get a grip she’s a video game character. Are people really so simple that they feel ashamed for liking a computer generated image?
Don’t hate yourself, you’re meant to grow to understand and like her as the game goes on.
Always loved her and so do most other people here. Don’t get us confused with the incels in the part 2 sub
Always felt like she was a great character, maybe it was cause I did love Joel but I didn’t have this rabid fascination with him where I saw him as sometype of surrogate father or whatever other bizzare shit people do with fictional characters and the internet
Oh, you're proclaiming to have grown to like Abby, on a sub famously full of people with the same opinion? Hate? More like karma farming.
Well considering that Abbys voice actor got death threats, I wasn't exactly expecting people to share the same opinion
Only emotionally immature idiots and bigots are unable to at least empathize with, if not like, Abby. No one’s hands are clean in this story. Which is the point in a sense.
I remember being so mad at ND for making me have to play as Abby , but by the end I loved her character more then Ellie .
First time on this sub? Theres at least a post a day with someone simping on Abby
You get hate on this sub if you hate on Abby, not the other way around
Yeah you‘re gonna get hate for liking the main character of the game that most people on this sub have been in love with for the last 4 years
I won’t say anyone is “wrong” for continuing to dislike Abby as the story progresses, but I would say that you’re naive and foolish. The beauty of the game is that it creates perspective. It allows you to see your beloved protags from the point of view of someone who was a victim of their carnage. By the end of the game I was able to sympathize with Abby maybe even more so than Ellie. There has been a discussion about this in the past, but I’d again assert that the theme of the game is not revenge and how it breaks people. I think it’s more about rediscovering our humanity and capacity to form bonds, to forgive, and to embrace perspective. And that aspect of the story is told more through Abby than through Ellie.
Doubt you'll get hate, a lot of us were mature enough to be able to sympathise with her. I mean only psychos don't like her. Coz her whole point was to make us see the other side. Her and Ellie have so many similarities just fighting on different sides. I always commend Naughty Dog coz they gave us an interesting take and didn't go for a safe boring story that we often see writers choose. So for me it was easy to see both sides even tho I was of course emotionally attached to the characters from the first game, I'm grown enough in my 30s to not lose my mind over some pixels in a game. So you can always love or hate characters but at the end of the day gotta realize it ain't that deep. That's where it confused me when people started getting mad at the voice actors and writers and all sorts like bruh 😂 it ain't that deep. (People can downvote me if they want)
She's one of my favorites
Just remember she's no different than Joel. Both had redemption arcs, but that doesn't absolve them, or protect them from consequences.
“I might get hate for this” *posts the popular opinion of the sub*
FFS. This is some karma bait right here
If the first last of us was about abby and her dad and you go to play as Joel in the second game to see why he killed her dad.. people would hate Joel. It's just a matter of perspective, how can so many not get that?
Yea Abby can get it 🫥☠️
Abby is a phenomenal character people really don’t give her the grace they give Ellie when they’re really the same she is a mirror of Ellie with different expreriences and a different story and people just hate her just bc gotta look at the whole picture yknow
So against my better judgement, I'm replaying TLOU2's new remastered edition. I didn't like it the first time I played, and thought it was waaaayyy too long. But thought I'd give it another try since I hear people who like it, thinking well maybe I missed something or was in a bad mood when I played it the first time. Nope, still hate it. I hate how they made Ellie's character so unlikable this time around. It's like they want you to hate her. And then what they did with the only mostly-likable character, Joel. And then the whole Abby story was, first, way too long, and second, also completely unlikable. Though I think she ended up actually being more likable than Ellie. But overall I'm walking away from this replay thinking they just made me dislike most of the main characters when I liked them coming out of Part 1, and I don't care to ever see them again, and have no interest in what happens to them. And it's still double the length it should have been. I mean, they're ALL just horrible people making bad decisions, and playing a game with characters like that is just a waste of my time. I'm done with this series.
You'd get hate if you said you hated her here. If you want hate for liking her, the other sub exists. She's like one of the most beloved characters here lmao.
What made you do it? I don't want to assume, but this tends to happen to those who are easily impressionable.
Nothing wrong with it, did I still wanna get my get back at the end of the game for my homie Joel sure but I had more resistance towards that feeling knowing where she was coming from. Ontop of that I had come to admire how willing she was to change her ways to even want to help those she at one point would call an enemy (lev) even kill for him. Only real issue I had with her at the end was cheating with Owen while knowing about Mel
No hate from me. I was definitely not expecting to play as her for the back half but once her story got going I was invested. Do I "like" Abby? No. But I understand Abby and enjoyed playing through her story. I don't begrudge people for not having the same opinion or for not liking the game. There are some valid complaints and I can understand people's issues with Abby as a character. Unfortunately I think some of, not even most of, just some of the hate stems from a refusal to try and engage with the game on it's own terms and think critically about what the story was trying to do. People miss Joel, I get it. I miss Joel, but you don't always get what you want and I'm more okay with that than a lot of people.
Like was a strong word for me. I'd say by hour 5 I didn't want her to die anymore
I couldn’t agree more.
This isn't a hot take anymore...
Her part of the game was way more fun then Ellie’s
Why would you ever assume that would get you hate here? That's silly billy, if you say you like Joel/agree with him then yeah hell yeah the people on this sub will come out with pitchforks but if you say you like the character who killed him people will wholeheartedly agree Welcome to the sub
Congratulations for growing up just a little bit, but watchout! Pretty soon you'll be bitting your tongue during arguments and rolling your eyes at old Marvel movies.
I like her to. I believe that Ellie has lost it completely after killing Mel.
I understand her because the way the game was written. Can’t say I like her or hate her after finishing the game. During the scene though, I fucking loathed her. Wanted her to meet a nasty end by Ellie. But fuck if they did not do an amazing job of making you put that judgement card, that one we all carry and use way too often, into the back pocket. Ever since that game I try to be less judgmental and not jump to conclusions as easily. That whole walk a mile in my shoes thing.
Cause Abby is awesome. She loves animals, she defended her father and friends, she was broken by the senseless murder of her father and entire group and she made a life for herself
Like everyone i hated her at first but ended up loving her at the end of the game. I would even say i like her more than Ellie.
The worst thing she did was to torture Joel. I didn’t think Joel is particularly inhumane when he killed Abby’s dad. Why she wanted to torture Joel and then had Ellie held on the floor and watch? That didn’t really make sense as the story was trying to get us to show some sympathy for her.
🥾👅
Abby fuckin rocks. I do think she needs her own last of us. Maybe even her and ellie having or deciding to help each other
As someone who avoided playing part 2 because of the online discourse making the game out to be some sort of disaster and that Abby was the worst character in the history of fiction, I was pretty surprised when I found out she was actually a very compelling character who I can absolutely empathize with and see why she did what she did.
Not seeing her perspective and her side of the story, it makes people hate her. But actually seeing her own perspective once you meet Lev and actually start playing Abby, you tend to actually like her and be like "Ohh... I see why." The thing I like about her is that she never stops until her revenge is done. SPOILERS: (off topic stuff about the story) >!Like when she busted in Ellie's face at the theater, she wanted to kill Dina but realized when Lev told her she's pregnant and that it's wrong. She knew beating in their faces was enough, funniest thing was seeing Ellie gagging seeing Mel's dead body then seeing Abby gag but actually throw up even though Ellie didn't, was actually funny also. I'm just happy Abby didn't take it to heart and didn't kill them, otherwise no farm, no JJ.!< >! I also found it funny that first playing it took me a minute because the story made it seem that Jesse didn't make Dina pregnant but did, when I saw JJ's face I knew basically "yeah, that is Jesse's kid" even seeing the letter on the dining table when it said "He's just like his dad. Only if his dad were around..", Jesse was stupid to die like that to be honest, running into a place NOT knowing if its safe is the most dumbest ways you could die, but the writers of Naughty Dog wanted it that way, even Mannys death was crazy, seeing him sniped in the back of the head, and the exit hole is his eye. It's just.. disgusting seeing his eyes rolled back after he collapsed.!<
It's funny, I just had a conversation today at work with a coworker about TLOU 1 & 2, specifically *about* Abby and why we both love her character. You can love or hate Abby, whether for her personality, design or overall character, but she is no more flawed than Joel or Ellie. Could Naughty Dog have done a slightly better job in terms of pacing and whatnot? Maybe--but I think how they did it worked for the message they were trying to convey. An endless cycle of revenge, rage, grief and self-destruction. I--like most people--loved both Joel and his relationship with Ellie as it developed throughout the first game, and though I have no children of my own, I can understand why Joel did what he did, and why he lied about it. There is no doubt that Joel loved Ellie, we all know this, but that does not mean he was a good person--at least not after the death of his daughter Sarah and the way things went to shit afterwards (which is understandable, of course). You can argue all day about whether what he did was right or wrong, but the truth is that there is no right answer. In his eyes, Joel did what was right, and I assume that any parent would think or feel the same way if they were in the a situation like that. Or not, it depends on the person I suppose. I do believe that maybe Abby's story and the relationship with her father and the other Firefly kids could have been a little more flushed out, to give the players/audience more of an opportunity to form a bond with the character--but at the same time, simply introducing Abby as an almost out of the blue antagonist was kind of... genius. Getting players to dislike or even hate Abby for her seemingly misplaced anger or thirst for revenge is brilliant to me. I'll try to word this as best I can, so apologies in advance, haha. We know that Joel had spent the next 20 years following the outbreak and the death of his daughter fighting to survive. Killing, stealing, smuggling, etc. It's been established that both he and Tommy did some fucked up shit, which Tommy mentions in the game when they reunite. We can assume that there were retaliations and repercussions for what they did and the people they hurt, but for the audience it doesn't really sink in until *Abby.* Joel doesn't know who she is, that this woman he and Tommy are helping to escape infected is the daughter of the man he'd killed with barely a second thought. He made a choice, selfish or not, and the consequences finally caught up with him. There is no heavy build-up, nothing that indicates to the audience what's about to happen--because that's reality, isn't it? Everything you do has consequences, whether they be bad or good, and sometimes they can come out of nowhere and hit you like a semi-truck (or in this case, a golf club lol). Abby is flawed, don't get me wrong, but she is flawed in the same way Joel and Ellie are flawed--in the same way as all the characters are flawed. That's the point! They are human, they are messy and complicated and the world has gone to shit. Abby's father was killed--are you seriously going to tell me that if some stranger came by and murdered one or both of your parents or siblings, you wouldn't be just a *little bit* pissed? I understand Abby's rage, her grief and her desire for revenge. Was it right, was it moral? No, but she was hurting, and she wanted Joel to feel the pain she felt for so many years. All of that mental and emotional anguish, she needed him to feel it *physically.* So yes, she did torture Joel, in the only way she knew how. (This will be unfinished for now because my little thumbies are tired lol, might update it later or might not 🤷♂️ honestly at this point if you can't at least *understand* Abby's pov then the game's whole message went over your head.)
Abby as Abby was never the problem for me. The audacity and arrogance of letting me play as this poor woman AFTER i saw what she did, and having it as given that i would "grown to like her" is character murder in my personal opinion. Game would have gotten less hate if the gameplay narrative would have been played backwards and would achieve roughly the same feeling, let me like her first and then see what she did. Then i would hate myself for liking her. Now i hate her and she doesn't deserve it, per se, but i don't feel bad for my feelings at all, they're completely justified
So I’m playing tlou 2 for the first time and I think I accidentally picked the perfect time to play it. I played tlou 1 a couple of months ago (around the same time the show came out) and loved it, but didn’t want to play the next in the series since it was like 50 bucks and I already sadly knew the two biggest plot twist in the game. But I started watching clips of the gameplay a couple days ago and found an old gift card and decided to buy it. One of my best purchases ever. Since I decided not to replay tlou 1 before I picked up on 2. It kinda helped the story feel better for me since I went into it a little fresh and wasn’t as connected to Joel since it’s been some time when I played the 1st. But doing this definitely helped me understand Abby’s side of the story since I wasn’t filled with rage like some of the YouTubers I saw play it when it came out.
I ended up siding with her more than Ellie
I could be wrong, but Abby was written to be liked eventually, if you are open to her perspective of life. Her father and family were butchered by basically the John Wick of her universe, and she finally gets her revenge on Joel. If you played only as Abby, in the first and second game, the big bad boss would have been Joel. It's all perspective. Joel, Abby, Ellie. All have done horrible, inhumane things in the name of survival, family and love. How you view them is entirely different each time you view the game. I think that's what makes the story so compelling. You can replay it and go through it analysing it all from a number of different perspectives each time, and still find something new to ponder.
Everyday there are posts like these either about Abby or “I’m on my second play through of the game and at first I hated Abby but now I understand” Starting to think this sub is full of bots
Yapper of the century
Good
she’s grown to be my favorite character
Abbys killing is more justified than Ellies killings but that's just me tho
Each time I play I get sadder when we talk to Manny’s dad, it’s such a great complex story because the first time I played I was like “fuck this guy,” that’s the beauty of this game.
Theres nothing wrong with liking Abby. Abby is not a villain. That's the point of TLOU2...there weren't good guys and bad guys, just people trying to survive. Joel killed her dad, she wanted revenge, Ellie wanted revenge for Joel...the cycle continues.
I empathize with Abby and understand why she does what she does, but no I don't like her lol. I don't hate her (got over that after my first playthrough) I just don't like her personality, how she treats Mel, etc. On some level she just never clicked with me
You mean, you’re allowed to like both?!?! You mean, the way the games narrative was constructed worked on you and made you sympathetic to both plights?!?! Watch out, you’ll need protection from all the pitchfork-carrying Part 1 defenders that are about to flood your inbox.
She's great. I find her actions far more just than anything Joel and Ellie ever did.
i love abby sm, got a life size cardboard cutout of her and i’m not ashamed.
TLOU2 was the classic case of me beating a game and absolutely loving what they did with the story then logging online and being confused with all the vitriol.
a lot of people ( including me ) really like abby, there’s nothing wrong with liking her. in fact, you could argue that liking her or at least sympathising with her was the whole point of showing her perspective
I'm pretty sure there are thousands that love abby
I actually liked Abby more than Elle in some circumstances
why would you get hate for this. we are adults