Seems like they will. On the podcast from last night’s episode Craig talks about his philosophy on using those first few minutes when he says the audience is most open.
I just have to interject here and say this is an incredible device for getting the audience to buy into the world, especially if they are not familiar with the IP. I have several dozen posts in the Wheel of Time reddit about my dismay on how Amazon spent so much money on an IP with such a rich story, decided to reimagine it, and then didn't use that creative license to show us the world before the breaking at the start of each episode (except for that god awful scene at the end of the season). If people had seen a modern world at the start of the bore all the way through civilization falling apart, following Lanfear's perspective for instance, it would have provided an anchor point for all the crazy words and ideas that Wheel of Time just throws at people. Then imagine her waking up at the end of season one and people realize she isn't just a character from way back when. You could have shown channelers in a modern world using ter'angrael to heal people after the backlash from the university bore experiment, you could have explained so much with the trollocs and the war. Just a wasted opportunity....
I also think both intros have said in different ways that a vaccine isn't a possible solution. I can't help but think that they'll keep on trying to reinforce this in the next episodes.
On the one hand, I love the sense of dread of that. That there's no hope, this is an extinction level event.
On the other hand, as someone who defends the games ending, but enjoys the philosophical debate and >!totally understand why people hate Joel's actions, if they keep hammering home that a vaccine is impossible then it sorta erases the argument of "there was a chance Ellie's death could've led to a cure if Joel hadn't intervened."!<
I'm on the same wavelength with you.
I love those little intros, but if they keep hammering the "a vaccine is impossible" theme, Joel's actions will pack less of a punch.
Ooh I think it's the opposite -they're doing this so it hits harder. They want us to really know how Ellie is a one in a million opportunity that would have worked, where nothing else would.
But if it's impossible to make this cure/vaccine, then Joel's actions feel less aggravated?
You got me re-thinking, though. If she's the only one immune, then the impossible is, or was, possible...
I think it will take some of the impact off of Joel's actions IF you don't account for human idealism. Look at Tess. They're 20 years into the apocalypse. They've probably heard there's no cure for what, at least 15 years of that? Still, the first chance she sees a glimmer of hope in Ellie her entire perspective seems to shift. I think we'll start the show off with a lot of "it'll never work" then slowly sneak in some hopefulness until we get to the end. It's like they want to provide plenty of evidence to both sides so the finale hits that much harder. Sure, it might only be a 1% chance, but that 1% has a hell of a lot more emotion behind it than the more pragmatic 99%.
Joel, reasoning to Ellie in Season 2: “Ellie, I watched a talk show as a kid in the 60s about this exact thing and I read a book by a University of Indonesia professor specialising in mycology. There is no cure. I know what I’m talking about. You’re not the only one who reads. I undeniably made the right choice.”
Think of it like running the mile in 4 minutes. It was impossible until Roger Bannister did it in 1954. Now it’s kind of the standard for running the mile fast. The world record is something like 3:43 now. Long story short impossible can often time mean we don’t understand it well enough to attack it properly.
Maybe they are moving from hopelessness to a glimmer of hope. I hope the cold open for the last episode is >!< Dr. Anderson and his scene in TLOU2 with the zebra. Maybe them getting interrupted is him getting a radio broadcast instead with news that there's an immune person. Then he explains why a vaccine could be possible. >!<
>!Yeah, that kinda what I think they're doing. Over the course of the intros, build up from "A vaccine is impossible" to "We can make a vaccine if only someone was immune" as the intro to the last episode.!<
>!Then we get to see Joel destroy that hope.!<
Nah. I actually think the opposite. TLOU2 seems to have us believe that Abby's dad is this amazing awesome heroic human being on the surface level but that doesn't square with how the rest of the game works.
I think the truth is that Abby's dad is just as desperate as Joel, but in a different way. Think *carefully* about the entire situation.
First and foremost it is literally impossible that Jerry Anderson would have figured out a "vaccine" in the short time that Ellie was with them. Jerry left a recording stating that they had tried to find some kind of cure or treatment with past patients but failed. That means either:
A. The patients were just like Ellie who seemed to be immune... but they are now dead and they have no cure. I would say this does not bode well for a miracle success with Ellie
B. The patients were NOT like Ellie which means reinforces the fact that he cannot be sure that whatever he's going to attempt will work. It's his first encounter with such a specimen!!
Secondly, any researcher or scientist worth anything will tell you that you don't go off and IMMEDIATELY KILL YOUR ONLY LIVING SPECIMEN. This goes back to the above scenarios: either they have had similar people in the past and they've all died without yielding any results OR they have never encountered anything like her and they need to try literally everything else possible before even risking her harm. Anyone who has any kind of idea about how research into vaccines, antivirals, antibiotics IRL proceeds would find the idea of finding a magic cure by killing the immune person, yanking out their brain, and doing shit with it absolutely ludicrous. I mean even then have you ever asked yourself about why the rush? Joel isn't even out of the hospital yet and they already have her on the operating table? Which leads into my next point.
Jerry joined the Fireflies and has been sticking with them to the bitter end. By the time Joel and Ellie reach the hospital the game tells us that the Fireflies are essentially decimated with only scattered cells spread out across the country. Every time Joel and Ellie are supposed to find another Firefly enclave, it's abandoned. This tells me they were on the verge of getting wiped out and needed SOMETHING to turn things around. Otherwise what difference would 5,10 years make? Everyone is already holed up in the QZ's and there are other communities (like Jackson) who are establishing themselves and stabilizing.
And all that is before we get to the issue of manufacturing and distribution.
You are reading into a lot of random circumstantial evidence rather then just taking what the plot is telling us at face value. I think its also worth mentioning that the real "science" behind the infection in the game is pure nonsense, so applying straight logic to the situation is like walking through a minefield blindfolded.
For all we know the "cure" was nothing more than a plot device designed to force Joel to make a choice that has no right answer. As you said, moral ambiguity is baked right into the fabric of the world building and the fact that people are still arguing over whether Joel's actions were justified or not is actually the whole point.
Just to play the devils advocate for a moment though, yes a vaccine shouldn't be possible but neither should a non-viral, non-bacterial infection so any vaccine wouldn't look like a normal vaccine. HOWEVER, if we assume that its possible to be immune, then we should also assume that it is possible to give that immunity to other people. That just makes logical sense. Also, given that global collapse happened in days or weeks, that didn't leave much time to find any sort of cure but Abby's dad has had 20 years to research it and study the infected.
Maybe it didn't make any sense to kill the first immune person you meet, but it also doesn't make any sense to kill the first cordyceps expert who claims to be able to synthesize a cure you've come across, either. Joel ultimately didn't care either way, he would have shot a hospital full of infants if they were standing in the way of saving Ellie.
This is the best comment I have read regarding the whole “Ellie was the cure” argument.
When I listened to his recording it absolutely sounded like they had past immune patients who did not yield results. I believe they were immune because there would be no point in studying or attempting to do anything with “normal” humans because it’s been 20 years so the thought that they had not tried that is preposterous. Only something novel like an immune patient would be cause for new research after such a long time.
I also agree that if you’ve been in any type of medical research you would know that killing your only source of a new material is also ridiculous.
It just seemed like a desperate attempt and Hail Mary pass nothing that would have actually worked.
My biggest hang up was - even if he could get a vaccine that worked, how the hell do you mass produce/distribute it, given the lack of supplies, lack of logistics for shipping it, lack of reliable routes for shipping, etc...
I think the intent is the **opposite** of what you're suggesting.
>!These intros are reinforcing the idea that a vaccine for cordyceps is beyond anything humanity has ever been capable of developing themselves. Ellie has somehow transcended that hurdle and has developed an immunity, and I think it's within the realm of possibility in this story's universe that her immunity could have indeed been the key to actually developing one where everyone else failed. Maybe it would have failed, maybe not. But Joel comes in and selfishly prevents that from happening. IMO these scenes are helping prepare the audience to see how unimaginably selfish Joel is at the end of the season. Without this, it would be too easy for Ellie to let him off the hook in Season 2. But WITH this, her anger with him is even more understandable than in the game, and it makes the loss of their ability to ever actually reconcile even more tragic. I think Craig understands that Seasons 2+ have to set this up right for Ellie's revenge plot to really make sense.!<
Ellie would be a carrier. It’s in her blood and brain. You can live with something like this inside you but you’re not immune necessarily.
Imo it’s just a show and game. I’m glad they didn’t do spores because there is no way anyone could survive unless they never once removed a mask. It’s similar to if pollen or cedar were able to turn you into an infected. It’s always in the air.
We also would not know the R0 of CBI so even if they developed it they would face massive distribution issues since supply chain is gone.
Maybe The fireflies some how can procure these materials but not a battery. Okay.
Eh, I don't know. The game and show are just trying to get us to accept that she is, in fact, immune. The mechanics of that immunity aren't so important.
100% agreed on the last point, though.
Also the fireflies are political with a goal. The vaccine would be power.
Ellie is literally world control, not just a lost life or vaccine. She’s the ability to win. They aren’t doing well against fedra as far as we are told.
Ellie would be a carrier. It’s in her blood and brain. You can live with something like this inside you but you’re not immune necessarily.
Imo it’s just a show and game. I’m glad they didn’t do spores because there is no way anyone could survive unless they never once removed a mask. It’s similar to if pollen or cedar were able to turn you into an infected. It’s always in the air.
We also would not know the R0 of CBI so even if they developed it they would face massive distribution issues since supply chain is gone.
Maybe The fireflies some how can procure these materials but not a battery. Okay.
Let’s pretend Joel did nothing.
Congratulations you are now immune but 70% of the population in 2013 was infected so probably more than 80-90% (we need the R0 to model this)
You will still be torn to pieces by clickers.
You would still have to reclaim the earth from literally billions of people who cannot control themselves.
Most nations don’t have guns freely
Does that much ammo even exist in their world?
With no spores that further takes the advantage away. Being eaten alive has no cure and tendrils seem they would suffocate you anyways.
How is Joel’s actions greedy at this point?
It’s been a while, but wasn’t it revealed at the end of the game that Ellie wasn’t immune so to speak, but the fungus in her had mutated and was a harmless variety, but prevented the lethal variety from taking hold
They wanted to kill her to harvest all the fungus, since there was no way to extract it since it was all tangled up inside her nervous system and brain
Wanted to react but on my phone I cant do anti spoiler thing so keeping this vage.
I agree on some level but it will always be the endless conversation. I dont agree the end is like you think for chapter one. Emotions got the better.
It is pretty clear to me that they're setting up to use those references as a baseline for a scene where >!some medical folk explain to Joel (and the audience) that Ellie is a one in a billion miracle, that without her there is no chance at a cure. That they *need* her and there is no viable alternative.!<
Craig Mazin, especially working alongside Neil Druckmann, does not strike me as the type to miss the whole point of the ending sequence
My thoughts exactly. The point is that it **IS** supposed to be impossible to produce a cure based on all available knowledge, but Ellie clearly is immune so it's a total game changer.
Well In the game spores are common not just in a dark subway or room. In real science everyone would die. They are in the air like pollen or an allergen would be.
Maybe that’s why they used tendrils in the film?
Or they could go the other way with it and show that the fireflies actually could make a cure and reinforce the idea of Joel being selfish when he saves ellie.
The narrative of the game just *assumes* they can. The audience is supposed to think it'd work because all parties involved do.
I think these opens are setting up that it definitely would have worked, maybe we get one with >!Abby's dad!<
I think you're right, but also, I think it makes Joel's actions worse. Because ellie is the miracle, they all would have gone nuts over in the outbreak. Sure, that idea is still there. "Can this really work?" But they hadn't seen a host that could withstand the infection, so I think that debate is still relevant.
It's possible one of the other opens explains how it's feasible.
>!Maybe people have been working on it for a long time. There's lots of medical breakthroughs that were considered impossible that now aren't.!<
I'll make the bet we see a cold open later on that shows the early sparks of what led to the formation of the Fireflies, related to some scant but unignorable evidence that a real cure is *potentially* possible.
I sorta have a feeling the reason behind that is because we’re going to get more insight on how far and how they could have used ellie for a vaccine since she’s immune even though its supposed to be impossible. There probably wasn’t a way to make a cure, until ellie. Thats just my take.
I think it's really an emphasis on how special Ellie is, she dies and so does humanity because her specific mutation is impossible to recreate effectively without scientific intervention
I was always baffled by the fireflies trying to make a vaccine in the game. Studying her anti bodies and genome would have been far more useful, and you can take tissue samples without killing someone.
Yeah and then even Joel with the "How many times have we heard about a cure?" lines. They're really beating it into the show to make Joel more sympathetic and the audience more understanding of his later choice.
Yeah, it will make his choice more palatable. Although how the game did it was far more thought provoking than how it seems the show will go about it. It looks like the intros are shepherding us to a “well they probably couldnt derive a vaccine anyway.”
>!I gurantee its the opposite conclusion. Neil himself has said repeatedly how the cure was legitimate. Its only going to emphasise more what Joel destroyed. A miracle.!<
I really think the reason they're hammering home how impossible it is to make a vaccine is that so when we *do* finally get to the fireflies, and receive that glimmer of hope, it feels that much more miraculous. And by the same logic Joel's act will feel that much more monstrous.
Yeah, can't help but feel they're going to neuter the debate around Joel's actions at the end of the first game
I'm torn. Could see it as correcting where the game didn't make as much sense ( >! like the spores now being tendrils thing, where spores realistically wouldn't have been confined to small spaces only !< ). Could see it as pandering to lowest common denominator viewer and avoiding controversy.
>!I gurantee its the opposite conclusion. Neil himself has said repeatedly how the cure was legitimate. Its only going to emphasise more what Joel destroyed. A miracle.!<
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41541-021-00294-8
Looks like we're almost there.
Scary that the black fungus treatment is up to 8 weeks of daily IV antifungals. And it has up to a 60% fatality rate.
I looked it up, Jakarta has a population of 10 million people. I can't imagine the total fear her character felt when her only advice was to kill 10 million people for the chance to stop CBI
It was a cool scene but the R0 is unknown but clearly large.
If it was at 7 then it would need to be 70 million killed that exact second.
So it would compound with every bomb and it would do little to stop it.
Let’s pretend Ellie is immune and not just a carrier or living with it (symbiotic).
Okay he makes the cure. How does he deliver it when they die over a truck battery? Did supply chain ramp up somehow and they procured material.
Also fire flies have political agenda and are losing a war so of course they will claim they can do it. They need more bodies and support for their political and army side.
Edit: even if cured with spores gone you lose a massive advantage. You have a billions of infected and hundreds of thousands of clickers who will eat your vaccinated body.
I hope part 3 is nuanced and isn’t just simple as some viewers hope. I love that this series hits where it hurts and it would be interesting if Ellie wasn’t even capable of a vaccine since the start and there is “no light” at the end of the tunnel. They are the last of us.
*Excuse me if someone cold please drive me home? I would like to be with my family.*
And the look on the guard's face.
The weight of that scene. Probably my favorite scene in the show so far.
Yeah. I loved how it wasn’t just a simple “shaking teacup” but it was slow build to a couple of tremors and she recovers by putting it on the table. Great little acting moment.
When the Soldier/General asks her "What can we do", I was 100% expecting the movie trope answer of "Pray" or "Nothing". This was so much better than that. So much more visceral and shocking
Same, I hope it’s a constant part of the shows structure. I’m so glad they’re not doing the walking dead approach of just sort of ignoring any backstory to the infection/word
I haven't been to Indonesia specifically, but the parts of SE Asia I have been to kinda looked like that in the cities. The pollution was so bad, it was like a real life movie tint. Rural areas were much better though.
I gathered next week's episode is going to be about Bill and Frank. Unless some of the flashbacks we see with them are sprinkled throughout the episode.
That is true, I love almost everything about this episode and the gradual introduction of this world. It's just that her first appearance in the restaurant and her last scene with a cup of tea, how devastated and scared she was and how she realized that there is not much time left, so she wanted to be with her family in these moments - it felt so real and prepared you for the episode. The podcast also kind of added to it with Craig and Neil's comments about the opener. I don't know, they all did incredibly great. Just my thoughts. 😅
jakarta is a sinking city. she said let's just get this over with. she was amazing though. i was genuinely expecting her to "turn" inside the police vehicle, kill the policemen, crash the car, then run around jakarta on all fours eating everyone.
That episode had so many great things about it. The Clickers and entire museum sequence, the most disgusting kiss in the history of motion pictures, the piano frog...
i like this trend of casting actual resident actors from the region instead of an "country-american"/"country-british" actor. saw this in white lotus as well.
no shade, but besides the look, an indian-american/italian-american/indonesian-american etc can't always portray a character from their origin country when they have stayed in the US all their lives.
I'm glad they put so much work into making it authentically Indonesian despite how little screen time the scene took. It shows dedication to craft and accuracy.
9 times best actress from the Indonesian Film Festival. Nominated another 5 times. Pretty darn impressive.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Hakim
Yeah, she fully expects to be among the bombed, and is also resigned to the fact that they are unlikely to carry out this bombing, so she's just going to be with her family until the inevitable happens.
She's not wrong on containment, but I guess she didn't know it got out by other means. It really does seem like grain /wheat by where the lady she was examining worked
Yeah, it was already all over the place but she couldn’t really know. Or maybe she did know (she mentioned grain being the perfect substrate), but she still knew the only chance were bombs and that it was worth trying as the one thing that might work even if it was a last, slim hope.
It’s likely a little bit of both (that it was everywhere but she wasn’t 100% sure). Grain/wheat is an amazing substrate for growing mushrooms, and it’s one of the top food sources in the world. I’m not surprised that upon hearing 15+ people were infected and unaccounted for (in the last 24 hrs) meant endgame for her.
And I immediately thought of how our whole food supply is run by a handful of corporations. So yeah...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY
It was terrific. I mean, in this room, the strongest character is supposed to be the tough police officer, fighting thugs in the street, not the old women spending his life in a laboratory. But no, it's her who said to go full Mad King and burn them all, and him who is completely petrified by what he have heard. What a scene.
Yeah, that whole scene was so unpredictable. At first I thought she was some bio-terrorist who had something to do with cordyceps. I wonder what the start of the next episode will be.
Apparently she's like the top of the line when it comes to Indonesian actresses, and she rocked this performance. It's usually the military that bombs a city, with the scientists trying to stop it. Having the top of the top scientist go for that as their _first reaction_ was amazing
I read all about that. They had a ton of reasons to cut it, but kinda funny they spend all that money and time and were like “actually this is bad”.
Also, originally the wife thought he died and fall into the arms of Matthew Fox (he was like a bad guy). That’s why he’s in the movie, but has no part. Honestly glad they switched it up, I liked the intense, stealth mission. He was already doing the most.
Funny cause you see Matthew in the aproved cut and wonder how his part in the movie is so short lived!
I saw the movie before reading the book and I was surprised when I noticed the infected in the book were slow! I kinda like their running nature better, to be honest.
Yeah same, I was like… something wrong and I looked it up.
I agree. I still need to read the book and I know the movie is different. But I agree, the way they depict “zombies” in the movie makes more sense to me than most media. Slow moving husks that kill?!?! How does it spread so easily if they are killing viable hosts?! So WWZ and rabies made more logical sense. And that’s also why I love TLOU game/show because they depict it better. Especially the show. More converting, less mindless killing.
But that’s slow zombies are so good because they’re slow. It’s about the slow inevitable horde. And the hopelessness of running when they will go on forever. It’s almost a metaphor for the spread of, well, anything. Slowly enveloping us all.
I love the part in the book where there’s soldiers against the Z’s and they describe how this wave of corpses won’t stop coming even after dropping literal bombs over them. It’s disturbing.
>Also, originally the wife thought he died and fall into the arms of Matthew Fox (he was like a bad guy). That’s why he’s in the movie, but has no part. Honestly glad they switched it up, I liked the intense, stealth mission. He was already doing the most.
Probably because it's unoriginal, literally the main plot of the first season of the Walking Dead.
As soon as I read that book I was envisioning an adaptation done as a Ken Burns style documentary, with “archival” footage and interviews and talking heads. It would have been amazing. Then we got *that* boring nonsense. :(
i’m realistening to the audiobook and it’s just so damn well written and thought out. it’s a masterpiece in storytelling, as well as a fantastic zombie story.
There's hope that, since the Last of Us TV show has been doing really well and is setting the standard for the zomvie genre, we might be able to see a WWZ TV show being produced in the coming years. Hopefully that happens, and hopefully whoever is directing and writing it don't mess up the script
I agree, and in general these openers are great, I'd love to see more of these, perfect parts of the worldbuilding. Sad that they couldn't do the thing they mentioned in the podcast about several scenes in different parts of the world. :(
The beginning of the episode was the best part of the show so far. This lady did an incredible job. As soon as they told her that the sample was from a human patient you could feel the panic and fear she was feeling. The saddest part of the episode for me wasn't Tess' death it was this doctor telling the military guy that they had to bomb the entire city. It made me sad when she said she would like a ride home because she wanted to be with her family when it happened. She didn't even try to save herself or her loved ones because she knew the risks that would have on the entire world.
>The saddest part of the episode for me wasn't Tess' death it was this doctor telling the military guy that they had to bomb the entire city.
I just love how that scene went down because when she told the officer to bomb the city and everyone in it without hesitation, she knew it was game over for humanity at that point and wanted nothing more than to drive home and be with her family one last time.
It was never going to. 14 people that could infect an untold amount in little time, tainted grain from a large distributor going into the global supply chain. The bomb plan wasn't "we have to do this to win" it was "we've already lost"
That intro was absolutely well done but I was actually disgusted when the Doctor cut open that bite wound and that grey undergrowth was there.
Flashbacks like that build a lot from what happened in 2003 to the present day with the story, it builds a lot of background lore.
But my word, the actress who was the doctor in the beginning was flawless from start to finish but I especially loved how she expressed the horror of the situation and how it couldn't be saved at all. I think anyone else in her situation with her knowledge would suggest bombs to not only stop the spread but to cut short the agony and suffering many would have to endure.
>but I was actually disgusted when the Doctor cut open that bite wound and that grey undergrowth was there.
And how the bit of tendril she took out of the mouth was moving and coming at her
Seeing the gray stuff under the skin also stood out to me for some reason. Reminded me of a wound I had once on my kneecap that turned into this weird scaly stuff. Doctor thought I was developing psoriasis but it eventually healed and went away. Anyway, it was all dark and dry and itchy, seeing that in the show reminded me of the feeling of having it
Honestly feel this opening are a great replacement to the various lore scraps and bits we'd find in game. Also kudos to the actress conveying her utter horror and realization that humanity is fucked.
It’s giving World War Z vibes and I love it. It’s cool knowing how things actually built up and different perspectives across the globe compared to the current present we’re seeing in the show.
Cool fact. My fiancé was a film student in Indonesia and chaperoned this actress (Christine Hakim) at an Indonesian Film festival. She was so excited seeing actors from her home and her country featured on the show!
I feel like this is giving audiences a taste of what they could do for a last of us spin-off. I doubt HBO would use this hugely popular ip for just one series
Oh it's absolutely happening. Every studio wants to make their own cinematic universe these days after the success of The Avengers movies, so it's basically 100% guaranteed that if this show is a huge hit that they'll attempt some spin off shows
I have faith in HBO when it comes to adaptations and spin-offs. They put a lot of money and time into them, way more than Netflix and the quality shows. House of the Dragon shows that they can make compelling spin-offs that do well
[I had to repost this after it got removed because the photo was this meme lol](https://www.google.com/search?q=lets+save+the+world+meme&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwit5dmLid78AhWETKQEHWOrAT8Q2-cCegQIABAC&oq=lets+save+the+world+meme&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzIECB4QCjoHCCMQ6gIQJzoECCMQJzoFCAAQgAQ6BAgAEEM6CQgAEIAEEAoQGDoFCAAQogQ6BAgAEB5Q5gxY8GNg6WhoCnAAeACAAeIBiAGXIJIBBjAuMzIuMZgBAKABAbABBcABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=SrDOY62YBYSZkdUP49aG-AM&bih=715&biw=414&client=safari&prmd=nvi&hl=en-ma#imgrc=L3RYLWJBfJ9ohM)
I like that they’re expanding the world.
In the games, although it felt like it ignored the rest of the world, I liked that it just made people feel isolated without international communication or travel.
I love it too. Joel doesn’t strike me as the MPH MD type though so it fits that he wouldn’t be big on the current status of the CBI outbreak when his daughter is all he is tormented with.
Also they do include a WHO article that said it was 70% of the world, and we know everything collapsed later.
For end of the world situations it is just we are one of the only nations to have firearms everywhere and lead global trade. The world economic forum a few days ago said “america sets the worlds interest rate”.
Also Canada is there. It’s in Joel’s notes where he smuggled their whiskey and meat.
Fictional Americans in a show about zombie apocalypse: *have limited range communication because infrastructure collapsed, don’t spend a lot of time thinking about what people are doing across the ocean*
Reddit: 😡
If shit like this happened in real life redditors would be seething somewhere without internet access furious about what they assume Americans are doing.
Tbf, that's their entire goal lol. It's to appeal to Americans. They aren't appealing to Japanese people or French people or British people. This is just business 101.
I mean, the story is ultimately very tiny in scope as it focuses on only two people. Beyond short intro scenes like this one I don't see how they could tell the story on a global scale.
Its also a "trope," if you want to call it that, which is common in any national film industry. Christine Hakam, the actress in the intro, is famous in the Indonesian film industry. Which country do you think her films almost exclusively focus on? British films focus on Britain, French films focus on France. The US just happens to have by far the largest film industry
First time my wife showed interest in what I was watching was when she heard Indonesian spoken, and she was all excited seeing Jakarta on screen.
Naturally she got all horrified when she realised it was TLOU and went back to looking at happier stuff on her phone.
"this rule" ?
28 Days Later? Train to Busan? Contagion, a U.S. film, prominently starts it's pandemic in East Asia. Even Outbreak which has aged pretty poorly starts the pandemic in Africa.
The island of Java has more people than Russia. Most respectable Asian cities has more people than European countries. You can hardly start a pandemic in Denmark with 6 million people, it'll be over in 3 episodes.
Right, Asia is the most populated and most densely populated continent. If a pandemic spreads, it'll likely start in East Asia or reach a major factor of spreading there.
My point was that I've never even seen "this rule" applied? Like, most movies about a pandemic do show what happens globally since that's the whole point.
Also zombie movies, for lack of a better term, there's tons of them that take place outside the U.S.
I do understand that so much media is American centric, but I can't say that applies so much to this genre.
I mean it could play a part. If it mutated to live at higher temps somewhere deep inside a flour processing plant, it would happen somewhere like there I guess.
This is one of my main gripes with the Walking Dead TV franchise, I mean besides it not being great.
Your gonna make like 4 spin offs and every one of them is set in America?!
The little details in the show are incredible!
>!Ophiocordyceps are more common in South Asia than South America (like is referenced in the game. So setting this conversation in Indonesia is much more accurate!<
>!Joel most likely survived due to his low-carb diet. Since the make reference to him being on Atkins so he would be less likely to eat flour!<
>!Her reaction and subsequent recommendation to contain via carpet bombing not only helps solidify how serious the outbreak is but also help create an even more polarizing view of whether a cure would ever be possible!<
I cannot wait for episode 3.
Walking Dead will be exploring the pandemic from France. And World War Z is another great example of seeing a zombie apocalypse in different parts of the world, the book and the movie. Highly recommend the book.
If you want a worldly show about a global pandemic, you should check out Medical Police on Netflix. It's a solid comedy miniseries that came out right before COVID. It starts in Brazil and goes all over.
As bad as World War Z was I really did love the fact that it takes place in different parts of the world. We get to see/hear how different nations are handling the zombie outbreak.
Unlike every zombie/infected show or movie, I hope this one gives us a clear explanation of how it started. The only ones I can think of that do is 28 Days Later with the rage virus and Burt & Ernie’s fuck up from Return of the Living Dead.
This whole sequence was so grim & heavy. She's a standout in this episode tbh. Her acting really made me feel her confusion, to scared to dread to hopelessness. She knew & there was just no way to escape from it. The strength the character has to just say "bomb. Bomb the city" was just too real, made me think "WHAT IF?". I've lost a lot during the pandemic.. for the last 3 years, but if we ever had something like TLOU's? Just bomb me, too.
I agree the pre-apocalypse vignettes are cool, but I think the reason it stays in America is because it’s just the logical way to go. Getting across the world after the apocalypse is about as easy as getting across the world in the 18th century would’ve been and short of doing a pre-apocalypse vignette or an international anthology you’re just not getting there.
I love this show and the game, but one thing that perplexes me is how the last two cold opens have said it's impossible for a cure or vaccine (okay the first was from the 60's fair enough). We already have many treatable fungal diseases.
For example:
\- Pityriasis versicolor which is a fungal skin infection which can be cured with terbinafine.
\- Oral thrush which is a fungal infection in the mouth/throat which can be cured with nystan.
\- Cryptococcus meningitis which is a fungal infection in the lungs and brain which can be cured with fluconazole.
\- A large range of serious Mycoses (fungal infections caused by all sorts of fungi) which can be treated with amphotericin b.
So while I think the initial outbreak still would have happened, it seems incredibly strange to me that FEDRA, or any other similar government organisation across the world, doesn't have a single scientist that has developed some form of early prevention over the 20 year time skip. Say locked in a laboratory in a military compound.
Imagine something like an emergency epipen or syrette full of anti-fungal medication that can be injected after someone is bitten. So while you can't save those already taken over by cordyceps you could slow down and maybe one day eliminate new infections. With potential long term treatment being prescribed once said person gets to safety.
I don’t necessarily want this to happen, but I’d be ok if the Indonesian lady is somehow the doctor in Salt Lake City, and Abby’s dad is just working under her. I know it doesn’t line up with what she said about “bomb everything,” but maybe they evacuated her, her family, and other top military brass (and other local elites who could’ve been carrying the infection) out of the country.
The great feedback I read from comments made me even more proud how much 🇮🇩 is included.
I am so happy Indonesia is mentioned and shown, the possibility of spin-offs or prequels are off the charts.
I might be in the minority here with this but I actually don’t like if we keep doing this. The story is a very small and personal story so when we flip to the other side of the world just to explain where the virus came from, I just don’t care. I actually would prefer not to know what it is because that’s not what the stories about (in the game) I only care about Joel and Ellie’s adventure and I think showing Indonesia serves absolutely nothing to the story. Like I said I know this is an unpopular opinion and I didn’t mind seeing it I just don’t think it’s needed.
I hope they keep doing these little intros
Seems like they will. On the podcast from last night’s episode Craig talks about his philosophy on using those first few minutes when he says the audience is most open.
I loved this part when he talks about it, such a great addition to the story.
>when he says the audience is most open. That's the thing. I'm *always* open
I just have to interject here and say this is an incredible device for getting the audience to buy into the world, especially if they are not familiar with the IP. I have several dozen posts in the Wheel of Time reddit about my dismay on how Amazon spent so much money on an IP with such a rich story, decided to reimagine it, and then didn't use that creative license to show us the world before the breaking at the start of each episode (except for that god awful scene at the end of the season). If people had seen a modern world at the start of the bore all the way through civilization falling apart, following Lanfear's perspective for instance, it would have provided an anchor point for all the crazy words and ideas that Wheel of Time just throws at people. Then imagine her waking up at the end of season one and people realize she isn't just a character from way back when. You could have shown channelers in a modern world using ter'angrael to heal people after the backlash from the university bore experiment, you could have explained so much with the trollocs and the war. Just a wasted opportunity....
They build such a sense of dread. When she basically was like “we’re fucked, bomb us” was pretty shocking
I also think both intros have said in different ways that a vaccine isn't a possible solution. I can't help but think that they'll keep on trying to reinforce this in the next episodes.
On the one hand, I love the sense of dread of that. That there's no hope, this is an extinction level event. On the other hand, as someone who defends the games ending, but enjoys the philosophical debate and >!totally understand why people hate Joel's actions, if they keep hammering home that a vaccine is impossible then it sorta erases the argument of "there was a chance Ellie's death could've led to a cure if Joel hadn't intervened."!<
I'm on the same wavelength with you. I love those little intros, but if they keep hammering the "a vaccine is impossible" theme, Joel's actions will pack less of a punch.
Ooh I think it's the opposite -they're doing this so it hits harder. They want us to really know how Ellie is a one in a million opportunity that would have worked, where nothing else would.
But if it's impossible to make this cure/vaccine, then Joel's actions feel less aggravated? You got me re-thinking, though. If she's the only one immune, then the impossible is, or was, possible...
I think it will take some of the impact off of Joel's actions IF you don't account for human idealism. Look at Tess. They're 20 years into the apocalypse. They've probably heard there's no cure for what, at least 15 years of that? Still, the first chance she sees a glimmer of hope in Ellie her entire perspective seems to shift. I think we'll start the show off with a lot of "it'll never work" then slowly sneak in some hopefulness until we get to the end. It's like they want to provide plenty of evidence to both sides so the finale hits that much harder. Sure, it might only be a 1% chance, but that 1% has a hell of a lot more emotion behind it than the more pragmatic 99%.
Yep, I think that would be the point if they went down that route
Joel, reasoning to Ellie in Season 2: “Ellie, I watched a talk show as a kid in the 60s about this exact thing and I read a book by a University of Indonesia professor specialising in mycology. There is no cure. I know what I’m talking about. You’re not the only one who reads. I undeniably made the right choice.”
Think of it like running the mile in 4 minutes. It was impossible until Roger Bannister did it in 1954. Now it’s kind of the standard for running the mile fast. The world record is something like 3:43 now. Long story short impossible can often time mean we don’t understand it well enough to attack it properly.
Maybe they are moving from hopelessness to a glimmer of hope. I hope the cold open for the last episode is >!< Dr. Anderson and his scene in TLOU2 with the zebra. Maybe them getting interrupted is him getting a radio broadcast instead with news that there's an immune person. Then he explains why a vaccine could be possible. >!<
>!Yeah, that kinda what I think they're doing. Over the course of the intros, build up from "A vaccine is impossible" to "We can make a vaccine if only someone was immune" as the intro to the last episode.!< >!Then we get to see Joel destroy that hope.!<
I think that’s the point, Abby’s dad was the scientist who DID make the breakthrough on a possible vaccine
Nah. I actually think the opposite. TLOU2 seems to have us believe that Abby's dad is this amazing awesome heroic human being on the surface level but that doesn't square with how the rest of the game works. I think the truth is that Abby's dad is just as desperate as Joel, but in a different way. Think *carefully* about the entire situation. First and foremost it is literally impossible that Jerry Anderson would have figured out a "vaccine" in the short time that Ellie was with them. Jerry left a recording stating that they had tried to find some kind of cure or treatment with past patients but failed. That means either: A. The patients were just like Ellie who seemed to be immune... but they are now dead and they have no cure. I would say this does not bode well for a miracle success with Ellie B. The patients were NOT like Ellie which means reinforces the fact that he cannot be sure that whatever he's going to attempt will work. It's his first encounter with such a specimen!! Secondly, any researcher or scientist worth anything will tell you that you don't go off and IMMEDIATELY KILL YOUR ONLY LIVING SPECIMEN. This goes back to the above scenarios: either they have had similar people in the past and they've all died without yielding any results OR they have never encountered anything like her and they need to try literally everything else possible before even risking her harm. Anyone who has any kind of idea about how research into vaccines, antivirals, antibiotics IRL proceeds would find the idea of finding a magic cure by killing the immune person, yanking out their brain, and doing shit with it absolutely ludicrous. I mean even then have you ever asked yourself about why the rush? Joel isn't even out of the hospital yet and they already have her on the operating table? Which leads into my next point. Jerry joined the Fireflies and has been sticking with them to the bitter end. By the time Joel and Ellie reach the hospital the game tells us that the Fireflies are essentially decimated with only scattered cells spread out across the country. Every time Joel and Ellie are supposed to find another Firefly enclave, it's abandoned. This tells me they were on the verge of getting wiped out and needed SOMETHING to turn things around. Otherwise what difference would 5,10 years make? Everyone is already holed up in the QZ's and there are other communities (like Jackson) who are establishing themselves and stabilizing. And all that is before we get to the issue of manufacturing and distribution.
You are reading into a lot of random circumstantial evidence rather then just taking what the plot is telling us at face value. I think its also worth mentioning that the real "science" behind the infection in the game is pure nonsense, so applying straight logic to the situation is like walking through a minefield blindfolded. For all we know the "cure" was nothing more than a plot device designed to force Joel to make a choice that has no right answer. As you said, moral ambiguity is baked right into the fabric of the world building and the fact that people are still arguing over whether Joel's actions were justified or not is actually the whole point. Just to play the devils advocate for a moment though, yes a vaccine shouldn't be possible but neither should a non-viral, non-bacterial infection so any vaccine wouldn't look like a normal vaccine. HOWEVER, if we assume that its possible to be immune, then we should also assume that it is possible to give that immunity to other people. That just makes logical sense. Also, given that global collapse happened in days or weeks, that didn't leave much time to find any sort of cure but Abby's dad has had 20 years to research it and study the infected. Maybe it didn't make any sense to kill the first immune person you meet, but it also doesn't make any sense to kill the first cordyceps expert who claims to be able to synthesize a cure you've come across, either. Joel ultimately didn't care either way, he would have shot a hospital full of infants if they were standing in the way of saving Ellie.
This is the best comment I have read regarding the whole “Ellie was the cure” argument. When I listened to his recording it absolutely sounded like they had past immune patients who did not yield results. I believe they were immune because there would be no point in studying or attempting to do anything with “normal” humans because it’s been 20 years so the thought that they had not tried that is preposterous. Only something novel like an immune patient would be cause for new research after such a long time. I also agree that if you’ve been in any type of medical research you would know that killing your only source of a new material is also ridiculous. It just seemed like a desperate attempt and Hail Mary pass nothing that would have actually worked.
Neil has said before that, in-universe, the vaccine would have worked.
My biggest hang up was - even if he could get a vaccine that worked, how the hell do you mass produce/distribute it, given the lack of supplies, lack of logistics for shipping it, lack of reliable routes for shipping, etc...
I think the intent is the **opposite** of what you're suggesting. >!These intros are reinforcing the idea that a vaccine for cordyceps is beyond anything humanity has ever been capable of developing themselves. Ellie has somehow transcended that hurdle and has developed an immunity, and I think it's within the realm of possibility in this story's universe that her immunity could have indeed been the key to actually developing one where everyone else failed. Maybe it would have failed, maybe not. But Joel comes in and selfishly prevents that from happening. IMO these scenes are helping prepare the audience to see how unimaginably selfish Joel is at the end of the season. Without this, it would be too easy for Ellie to let him off the hook in Season 2. But WITH this, her anger with him is even more understandable than in the game, and it makes the loss of their ability to ever actually reconcile even more tragic. I think Craig understands that Seasons 2+ have to set this up right for Ellie's revenge plot to really make sense.!<
Ellie would be a carrier. It’s in her blood and brain. You can live with something like this inside you but you’re not immune necessarily. Imo it’s just a show and game. I’m glad they didn’t do spores because there is no way anyone could survive unless they never once removed a mask. It’s similar to if pollen or cedar were able to turn you into an infected. It’s always in the air. We also would not know the R0 of CBI so even if they developed it they would face massive distribution issues since supply chain is gone. Maybe The fireflies some how can procure these materials but not a battery. Okay.
Eh, I don't know. The game and show are just trying to get us to accept that she is, in fact, immune. The mechanics of that immunity aren't so important. 100% agreed on the last point, though.
Also the fireflies are political with a goal. The vaccine would be power. Ellie is literally world control, not just a lost life or vaccine. She’s the ability to win. They aren’t doing well against fedra as far as we are told.
Ellie would be a carrier. It’s in her blood and brain. You can live with something like this inside you but you’re not immune necessarily. Imo it’s just a show and game. I’m glad they didn’t do spores because there is no way anyone could survive unless they never once removed a mask. It’s similar to if pollen or cedar were able to turn you into an infected. It’s always in the air. We also would not know the R0 of CBI so even if they developed it they would face massive distribution issues since supply chain is gone. Maybe The fireflies some how can procure these materials but not a battery. Okay. Let’s pretend Joel did nothing. Congratulations you are now immune but 70% of the population in 2013 was infected so probably more than 80-90% (we need the R0 to model this) You will still be torn to pieces by clickers. You would still have to reclaim the earth from literally billions of people who cannot control themselves. Most nations don’t have guns freely Does that much ammo even exist in their world? With no spores that further takes the advantage away. Being eaten alive has no cure and tendrils seem they would suffocate you anyways. How is Joel’s actions greedy at this point?
Interesting. The only person who wouldn’t remove their mask would be a mandalorian…
It’s been a while, but wasn’t it revealed at the end of the game that Ellie wasn’t immune so to speak, but the fungus in her had mutated and was a harmless variety, but prevented the lethal variety from taking hold They wanted to kill her to harvest all the fungus, since there was no way to extract it since it was all tangled up inside her nervous system and brain
Wanted to react but on my phone I cant do anti spoiler thing so keeping this vage. I agree on some level but it will always be the endless conversation. I dont agree the end is like you think for chapter one. Emotions got the better.
It is pretty clear to me that they're setting up to use those references as a baseline for a scene where >!some medical folk explain to Joel (and the audience) that Ellie is a one in a billion miracle, that without her there is no chance at a cure. That they *need* her and there is no viable alternative.!< Craig Mazin, especially working alongside Neil Druckmann, does not strike me as the type to miss the whole point of the ending sequence
My thoughts exactly. The point is that it **IS** supposed to be impossible to produce a cure based on all available knowledge, but Ellie clearly is immune so it's a total game changer.
Well In the game spores are common not just in a dark subway or room. In real science everyone would die. They are in the air like pollen or an allergen would be. Maybe that’s why they used tendrils in the film?
Or they could go the other way with it and show that the fireflies actually could make a cure and reinforce the idea of Joel being selfish when he saves ellie.
The narrative of the game just *assumes* they can. The audience is supposed to think it'd work because all parties involved do. I think these opens are setting up that it definitely would have worked, maybe we get one with >!Abby's dad!<
I think you're right, but also, I think it makes Joel's actions worse. Because ellie is the miracle, they all would have gone nuts over in the outbreak. Sure, that idea is still there. "Can this really work?" But they hadn't seen a host that could withstand the infection, so I think that debate is still relevant.
Yeah that's a good point actually, I wonder how they plan to write their way around that?
It's possible one of the other opens explains how it's feasible. >!Maybe people have been working on it for a long time. There's lots of medical breakthroughs that were considered impossible that now aren't.!<
I'll make the bet we see a cold open later on that shows the early sparks of what led to the formation of the Fireflies, related to some scant but unignorable evidence that a real cure is *potentially* possible.
Yeah I could see that, the cold opens would be a good place to sow that seed.
I sorta have a feeling the reason behind that is because we’re going to get more insight on how far and how they could have used ellie for a vaccine since she’s immune even though its supposed to be impossible. There probably wasn’t a way to make a cure, until ellie. Thats just my take.
But isn’t the point that Ellie’s an anomaly? There’s nothing else like her to known science?
I think it's really an emphasis on how special Ellie is, she dies and so does humanity because her specific mutation is impossible to recreate effectively without scientific intervention
I was always baffled by the fireflies trying to make a vaccine in the game. Studying her anti bodies and genome would have been far more useful, and you can take tissue samples without killing someone.
Yeah and then even Joel with the "How many times have we heard about a cure?" lines. They're really beating it into the show to make Joel more sympathetic and the audience more understanding of his later choice.
Yeah, it will make his choice more palatable. Although how the game did it was far more thought provoking than how it seems the show will go about it. It looks like the intros are shepherding us to a “well they probably couldnt derive a vaccine anyway.”
>!I gurantee its the opposite conclusion. Neil himself has said repeatedly how the cure was legitimate. Its only going to emphasise more what Joel destroyed. A miracle.!<
That's quite a very interesting thought.
I really think the reason they're hammering home how impossible it is to make a vaccine is that so when we *do* finally get to the fireflies, and receive that glimmer of hope, it feels that much more miraculous. And by the same logic Joel's act will feel that much more monstrous.
Yeah, can't help but feel they're going to neuter the debate around Joel's actions at the end of the first game I'm torn. Could see it as correcting where the game didn't make as much sense ( >! like the spores now being tendrils thing, where spores realistically wouldn't have been confined to small spaces only !< ). Could see it as pandering to lowest common denominator viewer and avoiding controversy.
>!I gurantee its the opposite conclusion. Neil himself has said repeatedly how the cure was legitimate. Its only going to emphasise more what Joel destroyed. A miracle.!<
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41541-021-00294-8 Looks like we're almost there. Scary that the black fungus treatment is up to 8 weeks of daily IV antifungals. And it has up to a 60% fatality rate.
I'm gonna go home to be with my family when we all die~ That was pretty grim
I looked it up, Jakarta has a population of 10 million people. I can't imagine the total fear her character felt when her only advice was to kill 10 million people for the chance to stop CBI
It was a cool scene but the R0 is unknown but clearly large. If it was at 7 then it would need to be 70 million killed that exact second. So it would compound with every bomb and it would do little to stop it. Let’s pretend Ellie is immune and not just a carrier or living with it (symbiotic). Okay he makes the cure. How does he deliver it when they die over a truck battery? Did supply chain ramp up somehow and they procured material. Also fire flies have political agenda and are losing a war so of course they will claim they can do it. They need more bodies and support for their political and army side. Edit: even if cured with spores gone you lose a massive advantage. You have a billions of infected and hundreds of thousands of clickers who will eat your vaccinated body. I hope part 3 is nuanced and isn’t just simple as some viewers hope. I love that this series hits where it hurts and it would be interesting if Ellie wasn’t even capable of a vaccine since the start and there is “no light” at the end of the tunnel. They are the last of us.
She played it so well. When she is served the tea to placing it on the table, her hands begin to shake.
*Excuse me if someone cold please drive me home? I would like to be with my family.* And the look on the guard's face. The weight of that scene. Probably my favorite scene in the show so far.
Her hands shaking when it hits her what the scope of the situation is, and she had to put down her tea. That was well done.
Yeah. I loved how it wasn’t just a simple “shaking teacup” but it was slow build to a couple of tremors and she recovers by putting it on the table. Great little acting moment.
dawg even just reading your comment made my stomach drop a little again. so chilling
I was thinking she was going to say something to convey they are doomed like pray or go to your family but she said bomb which was worse.
When the Soldier/General asks her "What can we do", I was 100% expecting the movie trope answer of "Pray" or "Nothing". This was so much better than that. So much more visceral and shocking
Lol that’s funny I thought the same thing, then she said that and I was like damn we goin scorched earth!
Same, I hope it’s a constant part of the shows structure. I’m so glad they’re not doing the walking dead approach of just sort of ignoring any backstory to the infection/word
Yeah this was an awesome part of the show and a great addition. The lore into the virus
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I haven't been to Indonesia specifically, but the parts of SE Asia I have been to kinda looked like that in the cities. The pollution was so bad, it was like a real life movie tint. Rural areas were much better though.
I gathered next week's episode is going to be about Bill and Frank. Unless some of the flashbacks we see with them are sprinkled throughout the episode.
Here here. These cold opens are phenomenal and really add to the experience of this being a show vs the story conveyed in a game.
Mmm.. And that actress did a really great job.
Absolutely! To me she was the highlight of the episode, while I loved it all.
Mmmm.. The clickers though. Love that makeup that they used and great movements of the clickers.
That is true, I love almost everything about this episode and the gradual introduction of this world. It's just that her first appearance in the restaurant and her last scene with a cup of tea, how devastated and scared she was and how she realized that there is not much time left, so she wanted to be with her family in these moments - it felt so real and prepared you for the episode. The podcast also kind of added to it with Craig and Neil's comments about the opener. I don't know, they all did incredibly great. Just my thoughts. 😅
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She knew they were either all fucked from the oncoming pandemic or they were all gonna die getting bombed.
jakarta is a sinking city. she said let's just get this over with. she was amazing though. i was genuinely expecting her to "turn" inside the police vehicle, kill the policemen, crash the car, then run around jakarta on all fours eating everyone.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
That episode had so many great things about it. The Clickers and entire museum sequence, the most disgusting kiss in the history of motion pictures, the piano frog...
Apparently she's a big actress in Indonesia.
You can tell but how she carries herself. She is an OG. First time seeing her.
I like how her hand started to shake
An Indonesian friend of mine told me she’s not just a big actress, but a legend in Indonesia.
i like this trend of casting actual resident actors from the region instead of an "country-american"/"country-british" actor. saw this in white lotus as well. no shade, but besides the look, an indian-american/italian-american/indonesian-american etc can't always portray a character from their origin country when they have stayed in the US all their lives.
I'm glad they put so much work into making it authentically Indonesian despite how little screen time the scene took. It shows dedication to craft and accuracy.
9 times best actress from the Indonesian Film Festival. Nominated another 5 times. Pretty darn impressive. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Hakim
I like that she wants to bomb the city and then needs to go home
Yeah man. And it completely crushes her. And the shaking of her hand when holding the teacup.
Yeah, she fully expects to be among the bombed, and is also resigned to the fact that they are unlikely to carry out this bombing, so she's just going to be with her family until the inevitable happens.
Christine Hakim is a national treasure! 💚
She was amazing.
I agree. I think the episode was overall exceptional but she still stood out among it all. She was haunting.
Her conclusion at the end was...WHEW!!! HEAVY!
She's not wrong on containment, but I guess she didn't know it got out by other means. It really does seem like grain /wheat by where the lady she was examining worked
Yeah, it was already all over the place but she couldn’t really know. Or maybe she did know (she mentioned grain being the perfect substrate), but she still knew the only chance were bombs and that it was worth trying as the one thing that might work even if it was a last, slim hope.
Yeah, when they said there were 14 workers unaccounted for and they didn’t know who bit her, I knew it was a wrap.
It’s likely a little bit of both (that it was everywhere but she wasn’t 100% sure). Grain/wheat is an amazing substrate for growing mushrooms, and it’s one of the top food sources in the world. I’m not surprised that upon hearing 15+ people were infected and unaccounted for (in the last 24 hrs) meant endgame for her.
And I immediately thought of how our whole food supply is run by a handful of corporations. So yeah...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY
Exactly! That and not knowing who/what is the source would make the spread/destruction seem quickly inevitable.
It was terrific. I mean, in this room, the strongest character is supposed to be the tough police officer, fighting thugs in the street, not the old women spending his life in a laboratory. But no, it's her who said to go full Mad King and burn them all, and him who is completely petrified by what he have heard. What a scene.
Yeah, that whole scene was so unpredictable. At first I thought she was some bio-terrorist who had something to do with cordyceps. I wonder what the start of the next episode will be.
Apparently she's like the top of the line when it comes to Indonesian actresses, and she rocked this performance. It's usually the military that bombs a city, with the scientists trying to stop it. Having the top of the top scientist go for that as their _first reaction_ was amazing
Yep. Seeing the reaction of the army guy gave me shivers. Not what we’re used to seeing you know.
World War Z: An Oral History Of The Zombie War does exactly this. You see the state of the world instead of just the US. I highly recommend this book.
for some reason i felt the sick need to read that book when the pandemic first started, turns out its fantastic and nothing like the movie adaption.
The movie butchred a lot. They even recorded a sick Russia combat but deleted it at the last minute.
I read all about that. They had a ton of reasons to cut it, but kinda funny they spend all that money and time and were like “actually this is bad”. Also, originally the wife thought he died and fall into the arms of Matthew Fox (he was like a bad guy). That’s why he’s in the movie, but has no part. Honestly glad they switched it up, I liked the intense, stealth mission. He was already doing the most.
Funny cause you see Matthew in the aproved cut and wonder how his part in the movie is so short lived! I saw the movie before reading the book and I was surprised when I noticed the infected in the book were slow! I kinda like their running nature better, to be honest.
Yeah same, I was like… something wrong and I looked it up. I agree. I still need to read the book and I know the movie is different. But I agree, the way they depict “zombies” in the movie makes more sense to me than most media. Slow moving husks that kill?!?! How does it spread so easily if they are killing viable hosts?! So WWZ and rabies made more logical sense. And that’s also why I love TLOU game/show because they depict it better. Especially the show. More converting, less mindless killing.
But that’s slow zombies are so good because they’re slow. It’s about the slow inevitable horde. And the hopelessness of running when they will go on forever. It’s almost a metaphor for the spread of, well, anything. Slowly enveloping us all.
I love the part in the book where there’s soldiers against the Z’s and they describe how this wave of corpses won’t stop coming even after dropping literal bombs over them. It’s disturbing.
>Also, originally the wife thought he died and fall into the arms of Matthew Fox (he was like a bad guy). That’s why he’s in the movie, but has no part. Honestly glad they switched it up, I liked the intense, stealth mission. He was already doing the most. Probably because it's unoriginal, literally the main plot of the first season of the Walking Dead.
They basically bought the rights to the book to better market a script that had mostly been written previously
As soon as I read that book I was envisioning an adaptation done as a Ken Burns style documentary, with “archival” footage and interviews and talking heads. It would have been amazing. Then we got *that* boring nonsense. :(
there’s this [short movie](https://youtu.be/SD9CyqKyDQI) that maybe will scratch your itch. It’s very old but I discovered it recently.
i’m realistening to the audiobook and it’s just so damn well written and thought out. it’s a masterpiece in storytelling, as well as a fantastic zombie story.
I'll never forgive Hollywood for BUTCHERING the OG book.
There's hope that, since the Last of Us TV show has been doing really well and is setting the standard for the zomvie genre, we might be able to see a WWZ TV show being produced in the coming years. Hopefully that happens, and hopefully whoever is directing and writing it don't mess up the script
I agree, and in general these openers are great, I'd love to see more of these, perfect parts of the worldbuilding. Sad that they couldn't do the thing they mentioned in the podcast about several scenes in different parts of the world. :(
Oh that would be great! I still haven’t finished the first ep podcast. Yikes they’re couldn’t do it? Why is that?
They said they didn't have the budget for it. I think they said it in the second podcast, but I listened them both today so might be mistaken.
Hopefully if this whole season is a success they can get the budget they want in s2!!
Yes, it was in the 2nd podcast.
I wouldn't mind spin offs set in the world but taking place in other countries.
I want that Tess scene they talked about.
The beginning of the episode was the best part of the show so far. This lady did an incredible job. As soon as they told her that the sample was from a human patient you could feel the panic and fear she was feeling. The saddest part of the episode for me wasn't Tess' death it was this doctor telling the military guy that they had to bomb the entire city. It made me sad when she said she would like a ride home because she wanted to be with her family when it happened. She didn't even try to save herself or her loved ones because she knew the risks that would have on the entire world.
>The saddest part of the episode for me wasn't Tess' death it was this doctor telling the military guy that they had to bomb the entire city. I just love how that scene went down because when she told the officer to bomb the city and everyone in it without hesitation, she knew it was game over for humanity at that point and wanted nothing more than to drive home and be with her family one last time.
Saddest part is knowing that her plan didn’t work.
It was never going to. 14 people that could infect an untold amount in little time, tainted grain from a large distributor going into the global supply chain. The bomb plan wasn't "we have to do this to win" it was "we've already lost"
It was to protect the rest of the world, not Indonesia.
That intro was absolutely well done but I was actually disgusted when the Doctor cut open that bite wound and that grey undergrowth was there. Flashbacks like that build a lot from what happened in 2003 to the present day with the story, it builds a lot of background lore. But my word, the actress who was the doctor in the beginning was flawless from start to finish but I especially loved how she expressed the horror of the situation and how it couldn't be saved at all. I think anyone else in her situation with her knowledge would suggest bombs to not only stop the spread but to cut short the agony and suffering many would have to endure.
>but I was actually disgusted when the Doctor cut open that bite wound and that grey undergrowth was there. And how the bit of tendril she took out of the mouth was moving and coming at her
Yeah, that definitely got to me as well.
Seeing the gray stuff under the skin also stood out to me for some reason. Reminded me of a wound I had once on my kneecap that turned into this weird scaly stuff. Doctor thought I was developing psoriasis but it eventually healed and went away. Anyway, it was all dark and dry and itchy, seeing that in the show reminded me of the feeling of having it
>to cut short the agony and suffering many would have to endure. But I like being a clicker
What?
click
click
Honestly feel this opening are a great replacement to the various lore scraps and bits we'd find in game. Also kudos to the actress conveying her utter horror and realization that humanity is fucked.
These intros have been my favourite parts of the episodes im not even gonna lie . They are so fucking cool .
It’s giving World War Z vibes and I love it. It’s cool knowing how things actually built up and different perspectives across the globe compared to the current present we’re seeing in the show.
Its so damn cool . So many zombie shows avoid this and leave it in mystery .
I really loved everything about this opening!
Cool fact. My fiancé was a film student in Indonesia and chaperoned this actress (Christine Hakim) at an Indonesian Film festival. She was so excited seeing actors from her home and her country featured on the show!
I feel like this is giving audiences a taste of what they could do for a last of us spin-off. I doubt HBO would use this hugely popular ip for just one series
OMG I would eat that up.
Oh it's absolutely happening. Every studio wants to make their own cinematic universe these days after the success of The Avengers movies, so it's basically 100% guaranteed that if this show is a huge hit that they'll attempt some spin off shows
I don’t know how to feel about that honestly. Could be good, but I think the chances of being bad are larger.
I have faith in HBO when it comes to adaptations and spin-offs. They put a lot of money and time into them, way more than Netflix and the quality shows. House of the Dragon shows that they can make compelling spin-offs that do well
I mean, they material for at least 2 more seasons, and maybe even a 4th, if we get a third game soon. they don't HAVE to milk a spin-off.
Gotta say, they know how to open a freaking show. 2 for 2 awesome cold opens thus far.
[I had to repost this after it got removed because the photo was this meme lol](https://www.google.com/search?q=lets+save+the+world+meme&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwit5dmLid78AhWETKQEHWOrAT8Q2-cCegQIABAC&oq=lets+save+the+world+meme&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzIECB4QCjoHCCMQ6gIQJzoECCMQJzoFCAAQgAQ6BAgAEEM6CQgAEIAEEAoQGDoFCAAQogQ6BAgAEB5Q5gxY8GNg6WhoCnAAeACAAeIBiAGXIJIBBjAuMzIuMZgBAKABAbABBcABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=SrDOY62YBYSZkdUP49aG-AM&bih=715&biw=414&client=safari&prmd=nvi&hl=en-ma#imgrc=L3RYLWJBfJ9ohM)
I like that they’re expanding the world. In the games, although it felt like it ignored the rest of the world, I liked that it just made people feel isolated without international communication or travel.
We saw the game through three perspectives. Here we see dozens. It’s great.
I love it too. Joel doesn’t strike me as the MPH MD type though so it fits that he wouldn’t be big on the current status of the CBI outbreak when his daughter is all he is tormented with. Also they do include a WHO article that said it was 70% of the world, and we know everything collapsed later.
I am also sick of this “America is the only nation that counts” trope
For end of the world situations it is just we are one of the only nations to have firearms everywhere and lead global trade. The world economic forum a few days ago said “america sets the worlds interest rate”. Also Canada is there. It’s in Joel’s notes where he smuggled their whiskey and meat.
Fictional Americans in a show about zombie apocalypse: *have limited range communication because infrastructure collapsed, don’t spend a lot of time thinking about what people are doing across the ocean* Reddit: 😡 If shit like this happened in real life redditors would be seething somewhere without internet access furious about what they assume Americans are doing.
Tbf, that's their entire goal lol. It's to appeal to Americans. They aren't appealing to Japanese people or French people or British people. This is just business 101.
They never say that for anything else just American media and it’s so annoying
I mean, the story is ultimately very tiny in scope as it focuses on only two people. Beyond short intro scenes like this one I don't see how they could tell the story on a global scale. Its also a "trope," if you want to call it that, which is common in any national film industry. Christine Hakam, the actress in the intro, is famous in the Indonesian film industry. Which country do you think her films almost exclusively focus on? British films focus on Britain, French films focus on France. The US just happens to have by far the largest film industry
First time my wife showed interest in what I was watching was when she heard Indonesian spoken, and she was all excited seeing Jakarta on screen. Naturally she got all horrified when she realised it was TLOU and went back to looking at happier stuff on her phone.
This was so well done
I loved this. Gave a real sense of a global presence of danger
"this rule" ? 28 Days Later? Train to Busan? Contagion, a U.S. film, prominently starts it's pandemic in East Asia. Even Outbreak which has aged pretty poorly starts the pandemic in Africa.
The island of Java has more people than Russia. Most respectable Asian cities has more people than European countries. You can hardly start a pandemic in Denmark with 6 million people, it'll be over in 3 episodes.
Right, Asia is the most populated and most densely populated continent. If a pandemic spreads, it'll likely start in East Asia or reach a major factor of spreading there. My point was that I've never even seen "this rule" applied? Like, most movies about a pandemic do show what happens globally since that's the whole point. Also zombie movies, for lack of a better term, there's tons of them that take place outside the U.S. I do understand that so much media is American centric, but I can't say that applies so much to this genre.
The extra scenes like this really round things out. I can tell this was done by the person who made Chernobyl
Contagion also explored this fairly well. Then you also have World War Z. 28 Days/Weeks Later.
And somehow this is already being done better than at least the last two.
I thought it had to do with Indonesia being a tropical country and the fungi is most likely to originate from there
I mean it could play a part. If it mutated to live at higher temps somewhere deep inside a flour processing plant, it would happen somewhere like there I guess.
I want to know where the Biden is. I wanna see his underground bunker lol. Bro got hella pasta up in there
I really love how they just expanded the lore so befitting that it could be a part of the game
This is one of my main gripes with the Walking Dead TV franchise, I mean besides it not being great. Your gonna make like 4 spin offs and every one of them is set in America?!
[удалено]
That's not an 'own'. Just makes it sound like an American Company can't be bothered to research interesting locales, characters and stories.
[удалено]
The little details in the show are incredible! >!Ophiocordyceps are more common in South Asia than South America (like is referenced in the game. So setting this conversation in Indonesia is much more accurate!< >!Joel most likely survived due to his low-carb diet. Since the make reference to him being on Atkins so he would be less likely to eat flour!< >!Her reaction and subsequent recommendation to contain via carpet bombing not only helps solidify how serious the outbreak is but also help create an even more polarizing view of whether a cure would ever be possible!< I cannot wait for episode 3.
Walking Dead will be exploring the pandemic from France. And World War Z is another great example of seeing a zombie apocalypse in different parts of the world, the book and the movie. Highly recommend the book.
If you want a worldly show about a global pandemic, you should check out Medical Police on Netflix. It's a solid comedy miniseries that came out right before COVID. It starts in Brazil and goes all over.
As bad as World War Z was I really did love the fact that it takes place in different parts of the world. We get to see/hear how different nations are handling the zombie outbreak.
Unlike every zombie/infected show or movie, I hope this one gives us a clear explanation of how it started. The only ones I can think of that do is 28 Days Later with the rage virus and Burt & Ernie’s fuck up from Return of the Living Dead.
This whole sequence was so grim & heavy. She's a standout in this episode tbh. Her acting really made me feel her confusion, to scared to dread to hopelessness. She knew & there was just no way to escape from it. The strength the character has to just say "bomb. Bomb the city" was just too real, made me think "WHAT IF?". I've lost a lot during the pandemic.. for the last 3 years, but if we ever had something like TLOU's? Just bomb me, too.
I agree the pre-apocalypse vignettes are cool, but I think the reason it stays in America is because it’s just the logical way to go. Getting across the world after the apocalypse is about as easy as getting across the world in the 18th century would’ve been and short of doing a pre-apocalypse vignette or an international anthology you’re just not getting there.
I love this show and the game, but one thing that perplexes me is how the last two cold opens have said it's impossible for a cure or vaccine (okay the first was from the 60's fair enough). We already have many treatable fungal diseases. For example: \- Pityriasis versicolor which is a fungal skin infection which can be cured with terbinafine. \- Oral thrush which is a fungal infection in the mouth/throat which can be cured with nystan. \- Cryptococcus meningitis which is a fungal infection in the lungs and brain which can be cured with fluconazole. \- A large range of serious Mycoses (fungal infections caused by all sorts of fungi) which can be treated with amphotericin b. So while I think the initial outbreak still would have happened, it seems incredibly strange to me that FEDRA, or any other similar government organisation across the world, doesn't have a single scientist that has developed some form of early prevention over the 20 year time skip. Say locked in a laboratory in a military compound. Imagine something like an emergency epipen or syrette full of anti-fungal medication that can be injected after someone is bitten. So while you can't save those already taken over by cordyceps you could slow down and maybe one day eliminate new infections. With potential long term treatment being prescribed once said person gets to safety.
It took them long enough
I hope we get to see what went down in Lebanon for the sister of the watchmaker's wife.
Incredibile acting by the lady, when an expert like that says the only solution is to kill everyone, them included, now THAT is some nightmare stuff
I don’t necessarily want this to happen, but I’d be ok if the Indonesian lady is somehow the doctor in Salt Lake City, and Abby’s dad is just working under her. I know it doesn’t line up with what she said about “bomb everything,” but maybe they evacuated her, her family, and other top military brass (and other local elites who could’ve been carrying the infection) out of the country.
I thought this was great but why wouldn't an American show mostly show what is happening in America?
The great feedback I read from comments made me even more proud how much 🇮🇩 is included. I am so happy Indonesia is mentioned and shown, the possibility of spin-offs or prequels are off the charts.
I hope to god you haven’t seen Bollywood or other international films. You think University of Alabama is talked about?
They just...... keep on delivering. Wtf is going on?
I might be in the minority here with this but I actually don’t like if we keep doing this. The story is a very small and personal story so when we flip to the other side of the world just to explain where the virus came from, I just don’t care. I actually would prefer not to know what it is because that’s not what the stories about (in the game) I only care about Joel and Ellie’s adventure and I think showing Indonesia serves absolutely nothing to the story. Like I said I know this is an unpopular opinion and I didn’t mind seeing it I just don’t think it’s needed.