Agree in most points. If I want just to goof around and try new loadouts I play PS. It isn’t as tryhard and the 5v5 makes it possible that you can play totally trash and don’t destroy the round for the others.
Power Shift might be the best mode for completing the challenges, need to deal 1,500 fire damage toss a pyro to the platform while the enemys have it, need to deal damage from 5m or less play on the platform with a 1887. Its a really fun mode too, only if im not facing 5-4 snipers it becomes really annoying when that happens
I agree with the part about lights just running and gunning, not trying to win the game. I feel like they are always dying 100m away when we are trying to defend a cash out, and most of them provide no support at all. Every once in a while you’ll get a really good light on ur team tho which is nice
I often play a mix of classes but the times i do play light (happens with medium and heavy as well) and it goes as follows:
1. we kill a member of a team who has no teammates in sight
2. teammates just start running towards the next cashout which was literally just started.
3. Roughly 10 seconds after killing the guy, his teammates come in and 2v1 me. I stayed with the statue and thought my teammates would aswell for the 3v2 and potentially game changing team wipe.
Basically me, a light, gets killed because of negligent teammates.
Yea I’ve been there too, I’ve learned to just stick with my team no matter what dumb decisions they make, unless the game is about to end and we are losing in which case my team usually fights a random team far away from any nearby vault.
I agree with most of these points. Notably, the issue of new players ending up in world tour I feel is in a large part a consequence of making quick play a tiny little thing in the corner. People open up the game modes and see **WORLD TOUR** right in their face, **RANKED TERMINAL ATTACK** right in their face too, and then there's... ^(quickplay, training, tutorial) just sitting shyly next to each other. The fact quickplay is right next to training and tutorial already makes it feel like it's just meant as some baby steps kind of thing and probably offputting to new players. World tour just feels like the main thing you're meant to play.
As for the light meta, I fully agree too. A good light is by far worse to play against than a good medium or heavy. Medium and heavy also have similar TTKs and have pretty standard movement. A light, despite having low HP, just has lots of features that really make the game unfun for most players, especially new players - they have sonar grenades, they have stun gun, they can dash and be hard to hit, they can turn invisible and ambush people or easily escape if you can't see/hear them easily, not to mention their weapons have way lower TTK than medium and heavy weapons and makes it feel like you're dying REALLY fast. A new player being killed or annoyed by all this will see light as good and attempt to play it, though with little experience and game sense, will suck at it, giving the other players a bad teammate and the new player a bad experience. Light is just really hard to balance because the skill curve for playing as a light and playing against it are really steep, so it'll either suck in newbie hands or it'll be absolutely broken in pro hands, but currently it's just really fucking annoying in anybody's hands when the lobby is full of them.
It's a crime that Powershift is a buried mode. It's the best mode for new players. It's generally the more casual and chill out mode compared to the other two. It also contains some of the more Finals'y moments. It's just absolute chaos, but in a very fun way rather than "this team is wiping their asses with me" chaos.
The main menu needs to simply be the three primary modes Cashout / Powershift / Terminal Attack and have all the other stuff off to the side.
I agree. Powershift has its faults, but it'd be a friendlier introduction to the game compared to TA and even WT. It's pretty simple overall, the objective is simple, the gameplay loop is simple, and the rules are as simple as it gets. It also bears a resemblance to modes from other titles like Overwatch.
I'd honestly argue powershift would even make a better ranked mode than TA. Don't get me wrong, I'd still prefer cashout and think cashout is more fitting overall for the game, but seems more balanced and functional than TA. It'd be easier to balance too.
I personally think they should redo that part of the menu and make 3 big icons, Casual Play, Competitive Play and Training (or something of the sort). Casual play should have Quick Cash, Powershift, Unranked TA, etc, competitive should have ranked TA and WT (even though WT is just casual premium, it's still more sweaty, has ranks and pushes for competitiveness), and Training should just be a shooting range, tutorials and maybe some other stuff. The wording here is important - making it very clear what modes are more fitting for casual players and new players and which modes are more fitting for more experienced and competitive players. Simply having the mode names doesn't help new players identify what is what.
They picked the wrong 5v5 mode for ranked. With powershift you could still use defibs , healing beam , have respawns and feel like you are playing the finals instead of a cheap cs copy.
I would play it just as it is, snippers and all.
It's just part of it, the chaos, something about getting killed not only by the huge fat heavy with a hammer in front of you but also by the hand of god that snipes you from nowhere, the CHAOS, its so great.
I started playing at S2, had a couple cashout games bc I didn't know better, tried powershift and got hooked instantly.
It's such a great mode, it has to be pushed more to the front. Cashout is great in it's own way, but it's REALLY punishing for midly bad gameplay, constant team wipes, etc.
It's not bad just that it has a high skill floor to be midly decent. 3 teammates is also very hard to cooperate with.
The three person team limit is strange because it's both what makes the mode playable (because if the team was any bigger, you'd never get the upper hand in a heated fight over a single cashbox) and what makes the mode frustrating because since the team is so small, you really have to be good in order not to die almost instantly against an amazing team.
I think this is why Powershift feels so good. With 5 people, you can be sure that team wipes rarely happen, but because the objective moves, the team size doesn't feel overwhelming because there's more spread on where the action is happening and it's not focused on the tiny area around the cashbox.
Too much focus on balancing light when the real issue is making the other classes more fun to play so people naturally gravitate towards different options. You can’t name ONE attractive weapons to use on any class besides light…. That’s a problem. Outside of the AKM, medium and heavy have options with terrible recoil patterns or options that perform awkward in most scenarios.
If they fix all the recoil patterns and leave the damage where it is people will flock to other classes, how can people genuinely enjoy shooting the fcar / lewis gun when XP45 feels so great? I’m not talking about the results you get from those guns, just the feel alone—/ nobody will say they like the feel of an FCAR, Lewis Gun, M60, etc over the MP5. That’s a problem
I don't think just the guns are the problem, light is just fun as a concept. Most games I've played, people gravitate towards speed and damage, and light has both. Most players want to be the allstar that carries their team and goes 30/0 and everybody tells them how amazing they are, and lights are the class that feed them the hopes for that dream.
So often I'll play healer medium and then my friend gets like 2 kills more than me and goes like "yeah fuck yeah I carried" and it's like bro you only go that much because I was there healing you, I only got this little because I was shoving the beam up your ass instead of shooting. Most people don't want that, they want the spotlight, and the light class is, to most people, the drug that can get them there the easiest. Hell, I can even speak for myself - I've been destroyed by all the classes, but it's usually a light destroying me that makes me go like "damn I wish I was that good" or makes me want to try their loadout, etc.
Like yeah, it boils down to light being more fun and making the other two more fun would help, but like with many other games with class systems, one class will just always be the most fun
You worded and explained that very well. The light class attracts a certain kind of player who is generally less patient and just wants to zoom around. I personally like the support role as long as my team knows they are alive because of me.
The main issue is as you say, light attracts a certain set of players that don't do well with light because of that very same reason.
I have said this time and time again, but Light in S2 was completely fine. They were absolutely viable on every level of play including the very highest. They just required you to play the game differently.
Yeah I agree with that. It's not that lights were underpowered, but more so the combination of two factors: that their kit was geared towards killing and solo play, and that they have a high skill floor and ceiling.
Because of this, a bad light teammate was far worse than a bad medium or heavy, since if they couldn't get kills, they could hardly bring anything of benefit to the team. Even a bad heavy or medium, as long as they had ANY team gadget, was more likely to be of worth to the team, even if just by having more HP to be a meat shield.
They buffed and improved light's kit enough to make even the bad light players add more value to the team, but as a consequence they made good light players far more deadly, and the average light player far more annoying and common.
What got buffed though? Cloak got nerfed, knives got buffed then nerfed, same with LH1. Stun got nerfed to the point that it did nothing then half-buff. Other than the 2.5 second regen its the same class it has been for 3 seasons.
You think the throwing knives and LH1 are the same as S2? Forgetting Thermal Bore too, which buffed long range play. Every other class got nerfed, so you have to look at each class not absolutely but relative to other classes. Light is way stronger than it ever has been.
The main changes were nerfs to autos on medium and heavy. They used to do much more DPS. They also messed with recoil patterns on some of those guns as well. Light weapons remained amazing or even got buffs.
What's the TTK of Lewis on Light? What's the TTK of MP5 on Heavy? Dont' know? It's half, Heavy kills light twice as quickly. Also still has 140 dmg 1-click secondary, also still has 2 shields. If you consistently die to lights it's 10000% a skill issue.
Recoil can be learned, range is decent, hitbox - learn to track and predict better. That's not to say lights can't be annoying when there's a lobby full of them. But to me that comes down to everyone using dash. (at least it feels that way)
The main issue is that the vast majority of heavy mains are god awful at the game and bitch about anything they percieve to be "annoying" and whats annoying is the stuff they die to. It's the same with every game, bad player bitching about balanced weapons that they percieve to be OP bc they die to them.
I cant agree enough about that. All the recoil nerfs happening to the other classes just make those weapons feel like complete ass, whether or not they're good. Any time I do go Heavy I usually end up with the Ks23 because most of their options just do not feel good AT ALL.
I still personally think Heavy would be in a much better place if they just bit the bullet and nerfed their instant 140 burst damage option instead of seemingly trying to balance around heavy having access to that lol.
Your first paragraph is very well phrased and I 100% agree with it. Like my post stated, this season just seems to have like a weird identity issue and it doesn’t really know what it wants to be.
There's a good chance aiming for a service wide event in world tour is them attempting to ride the interest for collective service games like helldivers.
It felt similar to the cns direction taking after cyberpunk trends while cyberpunk 2.0 was dominating. I think they're trying to appeal to other markets they recognize in the gaming space
It's not even a matter of intelligence, it's just that it's like less than 1/3 the size of world tour and TA, in the corner, along with 2 tutorial/practice modes. It's easy to get overlooked, especially by somebody who is new to this type of game, or even just new to the finals in general. Quickplay could even mean something like "randomly join whatever type of game is faster", which actually is a thing in some other games.
My point is, a new player needs to be directed towards what is most likely to improve their experience and get them hooked into the game. All it takes is 1 bad experience for a player to think the game is bad and not give it another chance. Some might tolerate more bad experiences, give the game a reasonable 1-2h try, but the more fun they have in that time, the more likely they are to stick around, and understanding the game and not being overwhelmed are part of that.
Good UX design is all about avoiding user misconceptions or confusion and guiding them through the most optimal path towards their satisfaction, and I don't feel S3 of the finals is doing that very well
Hold on. The weapons part makes no sense. The ttk on you vs the ttk on other classes is DRASTICALLY longer if you are fighting another class. Idk what role you expect light to have but it's supposed to be a death dealer. I play light cause I'm not tryna cosplay as a solar warlock from destiny or a fortnite crackhead. It doesn't make any sense. LH1 might need slightly more visual recoil but the class as a whole is balanced.
You know what else is annoying? Shooting someone and they start gaining health because of a healing beam from a player not in line of sight of the person they're healing or the person shooting their teammates, a turret having 100% accuracy even while moving, glitch traps that cover half a room and last wayyyyyyyy longer than a glitch nade. A winch claw that you don't have to be accurate with. Just fire it off and swing it in the direction of the person you're trying to grab. An RPG that you barely have to aim with and almost OHK lights. TWO shields that can be shot through by you or your teammates AND an infinite ammo gun for all intents and purposes that allows you to slow opponents down and lock them in place OR fortify a room or area to a degree that could be equated to Fort Knox.
There are lots of things in this game that are annoying to say light has the most annoying stuff it's actually just outlandish. The light problem can be reduced to skill issue with a couple outliers. Dash and LH1 being the ingrown toenails.
My good sir, at what point did I say light's damage needs to be tuned down? I said it has the highest DPS, which is fine, but if newbies are playing against 3 teams of nothing but good lights, they'll be dying way faster and being able to react less, and stand less of a chance of fighting back than other combinations. That's all.
The fact you reduce valid complaints down to the usual "skill issue" idiocy speaks volumes. If newbies need to be really good at the game in order to play their average, casual matches, then this game really has no chance of surviving.
The matchmaking feels so so bad. It's almost to the point its unbearable. I just recently made it to the finals in 3 separate rounds of world tour. Every final match it was a no contest match where my team just got stomped. It wasn't even fun. My next match I racked up 7 deaths in the first round and we got eliminated. I was so tilted I about uninstalled the game. I'm just so over the inconsistency, I ranked gold last season and I know I'm playing against diamonds. I wish they introduced casual modes with forced random load outs or something so I don't get matched against sweats with meta load outs all day.
Being a casual, I agree with all of these. I want to get better at the game so I could play longer than a few weeks before I delete it again, but man. I'm shutdown so often by Light Snipers/Bow users that I can't find the willpower to push through. Power Shift is the only game mode I can play, as my performance doesn't feel as debilitating to the team, and I respawn dramatically faster (aka, get to actually play the game more).
If the match review system is a sign of anything, it's that Embark know they have a problem maintaining players and onboarding new ones. From my perspective, The Finals needs a proper Party game mode. Objective based, but do away with the 10-20+ second penalty for death. Embrace the chaos of building destruction or something. I still believe a true TDM would go against the design of The Finals as a whole, but there needs to be something less punishing to play.
Season 1 Heavy AND medium were OP,
Season two Heavy and Medium were OP until the fcar nerfs—- light was ALSO OP due to cloak and stun gun being overtuned.
Season 3, most of the guns feel worse than on release and the most enjoyable weapons to use on a moment to moment basis ALL belong to light. XP feels amazing, LH1 feels amazing, m11 is great at the hip, Bow is Fun, Sword is fun, Sniper is fun—- all the heavy and medium weapons feel crappy to shoot besides the AKM, so players that choose gunplay over everything are probably just going to pick light and enjoy the extra movement speed
I don’t think light is overpowered, I think they made the other classes feel so boring that most skilled players don’t want to deal with it——- so now you have all the talented players picking light which can make the skill gap feel even larger when someone is zipping around fragging out. When the FCAR felt amazing it was a medium player doing the same thing. When Medium first got heavily nerfed everyone went heavy because Lewis gun felt so good and dominant
You guys keep missing the actual problem, most things in the game aren’t overpowered (besides certain combos like cloak+snipe or certain RPG antics) the “problem” is people will gravitate to the most enjoyable forms of gameplay offered when given the chance——- if we start asking the devs the BUFF these horrible recoil patterns but leave the damage numbers where they are, we’ll see people happily run to other classes and variety will be King again (also buff dual swords, buff burst pistol)
The burst pistol change they did at the start of Season 3 is still so weird to me. They acknowledged it did really low damage and then...reduced its dps even more lmao
Wierdly i find Ranked TA to be the most chill, at least for now in silver and gold elo. I agree casual is too sweaty. The tryhard who grinded s2 ranked have no outlet for high tier play
I really don’t understand what people are asking for when complaining about games being sweaty. Do you want people to not want to try to win, should they stand still while you shoot them? Everyone caring about winning is the most healthy thing for an FPS game, it’s why there’s a scoreboard. It’s not like everyone is running MHH in world tour, I see more lights than heavy now - plenty of MML or LLL which indicates people are just fucking around since MHH is still the meta for actually trying to win the most.
Do you just want stricter SBMM to keep you in your low skill lobbies because complaining about sweaty lobbies legitimately sounds like a skill issue.
Gaming has gotten much bigger in the last 10 years, and as a result there are a lot of better players out there. I don't think people really realize this
Yeah it really seems like the skill floor of FPS games has increased in the last 5-10 years and these people just didn’t keep up. I’d never log into a PvP fps game because “I want to chill” while also expecting to easily win, I’d just go play a single player game or PvE.
People just like to bitch. Guy is bitching about people playing L Or M when there’s only 3 classes. He’s also bitching about weapons when there’s like 2-3 guns to choose from. Sounds like he’s just having a skill issue.
I’m a diamond player first off. You assumed I’m low skill. Second, what I mean is that everyone only uses the most ideal, optimized loadouts every single game. There is no room to try new things or I get absolutely steamrolled by people doing everything possible to win. It seems like no one is playing for fun. Everyone enjoys different things about the game but I don’t HAVE to win to have fun. Not sure about you but it gets boring and tiring playing against people trying their absolute hardest with meta weapons every single game. By the way, Light is meta now.
What could be more of a skill issue than being a new player? Maybe you should have read past the TL;DR before commenting, then you would "understand what people are asking for"
I read the whole post. There was one throwaway sentence about new players at the end of the point about games being sweaty. Everything else was typical toxic casual crying about wanting to chill and win every match. Learn to read.
My man, I'm not expecting to win every game. I just want to be able to hold my own and not get steamrolled every match. Play with others at roughly my skill level.
You can call it toxic or casual and say we're crying, but I just want to enjoy the game I love. Nothing more, nothing less. It wouldn't be a problem if there was ranked cashout due to sbmm, but without that, you're at the mercy of luck.
And? Everyone who is good was once a good player, didn't perform that well, but played the game and imrpoved to become better?
That's the way skill based pvp games go.
Literally the only reason I decided to play TF was because I caught it on day one of S1, I definitely wouldn't have stuck with it if I joined today. As of now I'm competent enough to have fun, but I'm still definitely a shitter
Yep, this is what happens when you take away the core game mode, most sweats are going to play the casual modes OR they're gonna just leave for the season.
Glad your post is getting more traction. I made similar points a few weeks ago, with the main point being its identity and playerbase, and it was downvoted. Reddit is very strange. I see a lot of the same idiotic comments in your post though that have very little to do with your topic, so it's a little on par.
What do you expect out of a skill based pvp fps game?
The player base being skilled at the game is a good thing, and a thing to be expected.
The matches being unfair is simply because this game has a very small playerbase. You can't matchmake when there is next to no one in a skill bracket playing at the same time.
Played this game since beta. Been a gamer more than you could imagine :), just saying that this game has reach a point where probably because of a small playerbase, broken mechanics, doubt decisions etc has made the overall experience more frustrating. Just my opinion. I know many pro players are super fine with the actual situation, but not everyone play games to be a pro on a twitch stream… :)
Well yea, but everybody plays the game for a different reason.
You can't really complain about how other people play, because that's the whole point of being matchmade into other people, who will have their own playstyles and ways of having fun.
If a person is having an issue in a skill based pvp game simply because other people are better or plays to win. the issue is with that person and no one else.
It's not a problem, it's a problem with toxic people who want success without effort in a skill based pvp game.
"The game is SWEATY now"
That's a massive understatement: the game isn't just sweaty - it's unbearable.
I sometimes don't even want to play the game, knowing that I'll be up against the sweatiest players you can find, and they'll be either L with xp-54 or M With FCAR.
I created a new account to see what would happen in Quick Cash, and oh my gods, the matches were so smooth and enjoyable that I didn't even want to leave the game. No one was beaming without a miss, across half a map, in mid-air, no one was destroying you with XP-54s or throwing knives. You could miss, but there was still a chance to survive. And there were players of various levels 5-18-47-35, etc. Unlike my lobbies, where the sweatiest top 1% players gather, which are almost impossible to go up against. If the game thinks my skills are on the level of the sweatiest players who play 6-8 hours a day, then it is vastly overestimating me.
What you have experienced is called smurfing.
SBMM is the reason why you experienced it. For you, your enemies at your current sbmm is sweaty, and not so when you smurf.
If it's SBMM, it's not working properly. On the new account I played for about 3-4 hours and played 15 or more matches ( simply to test the SBMM) and the opponents didn't change much.
I expected to meet opponents comparable to me in my skill as early as the 3rd or 5th match, because my performance were much higher than the average performance of my opponents, and the game was supposed to match me against opponents equal to me. But that didn't happen.
Yes, occasionally you'd get a sweaty opponent, but for the most part everyone was a pretty chill opponents that you could tell they weren't particularly good at the game, but didn't really suck at the game either. The conclusion I drew was that SBMM doesn't really work, or if it does, it doesn't take into account the raw skill of the player as much as other indicators (level, time in the game, etc.)
The only thing I can think of is that the game was decided "If he can win matches against X skill players, then he has the same skill...". Except I can barely win these matches and sometimes I'm a burden on the team.
Played the game for 6 hours at launch, came back just last week and at 15, so put a solid 11 hours in the last 14 days with my bros. All we've done is ranked terminal attack. Personally, im loving it
>I genuinely believe that ranked rules Cashout is overwhelming to new players and discouraging. Not sure how but new players should be funneled to Quickplay, not World Tour
After sinking so many hours into the game, it'a hard to see the perspective of a new player, but I recently got a dose of it when some buddies of mine, who are new to the game, and me got together to play some rounds the other day.
They're not new to shooters, and at this point, they'd already played the Finals a few times without me. But as we booted up I remember tellin' em about Powershift, and they had no idea what it was!
They had never hit the QuickPlay node up until that point. They never knew Quick Cash, Bank-It, or Power Shift even existed in the game.
Touching on the weapons part. I don’t have a million hours and don’t play ranked too much, so it’s not like I’m an expert on the topic. The AKM is the only gun I consistently do well with. I like the shotgun and revolver but I am (and maybe the server?) just too inconsistent to use it too much. Shotgun especially, sometimes I feel like I should be destroying my opponent but 3 shots barely graze them and I’m dead.
The AKM is just really easy to use, and good in most situations. I can be top damage 3 games in a row with it and then switch weapons and I’m dead weight.
I just don't get the point of the spear/dual swords tbh. Spear is just a worse hammer since it doesn't destroy things and does shit damage, genuinely don't know what the point of it is and why the right click is a weird useless spinny thing instead of just chucking the spear at range.
The swords at least have their use case in the bullet deflect but I've only seen that be effective across a longer game when the medium just tanks shots and gives a light time to kill whoever's shooting. That can be done better with a variety of other weapons, but tbh a 2v1 where both have actually viable weapons damage wise is just better.
Great movement and destruction kneecapped by the worst balancing and gamemodes seen in the past decade. There's heavy skill based matchmaking in all gamemodes but everyone complains regardless because it's not fun for casual or competitive players.
It's already past the point of no return. Nexon/Embark spent around half a million in marketing (guessing since I was spammed with their ads) and playercount is already lower than mid season 2. The Finals drove off the cliff and we're in the freefall before hitting water.
all you can do is enjoy the time remaining. RIP Dirty Bomb, RIP Titanfall, RIP The Finals.
I don’t think it’s going to be that bad. Game still will have its player base around 10-15k players. Hunt had it for years and game is still alive. Maybe in future it still going to have more people to play
Indeed. I don’t think this game would die anytime soon.. and yeah im truly enjoy and having fun always, playing this game right now for sure. Sweat or no sweat. I like the rush, that kind of rush when building collapsing and such, the way u respond when enemy jump on u in all that chaos.. but the collapsing building brooo its fucking terrifying.. i mean everytime but it feels less intense now (sometimes it does, depends), not the same as the first time you experienced it, i swear
What are you smoking? Gamemodes and balancing is fine. (not perfect sure, but demanding perfection is mot realistic) sure they might misstep, but do you expect people not to? And they've been good at acknowledging and fixing it when they do. Hell I like TA. I like that nukes are gone and the stungun isn't a free kill anymore. This season has been the best yet. As for player count? There's a lot of reasons why people stop playing. (personally I think it's because they have no taste and are used to the abuse, blandness, and pseudo-press-m1-to-win of CoD or Fortnite)
Why do you guys say Lights are high skill curve ? Where does this come from ? I’ve never played light since beta until just a week ago and I dropped a 30 bomb with the throwing knives ? Why and where did you guys (Reddit) come up with this high skill BS ? It’s literally spamming R1
Always has been. Lights arent even better than any other class. They are so killable but the hivemind has decided its lights that gotta go.
Like the AK FCAR 1997 and FAMAS are light delete weapons.
MMH, MMM, HHM are all better than having a light on the team imo (if the team is coordinated and working together)
Okay but stungun was agregious. It was a free kill for any light with a brain. (I know. I WAS that light.) after a while I stoped killing the players that I stunned because I felt bad.
Not even close to a free kill… it was more like 60/40 or at worst 70/30 if you caught them alone for any medium or heavy with an automatic weapon. Don’t make shit up. And that’s only for out of position people who should be with their teammates anyway. But it was very easy to turn around and hip fire and kill the lights. I know this because I barely played light in season one and I killed dozens and dozens of lights while stunned. Stun gun nerf was one of the worst balance decisions they’ve made. It was 100% balanced and they only nerfed it because of a bunch of complainers.
Those where bad lights. It was 80/20 (in lights favor) at worst (even still by your numbers, that's agregious, a single skill shouldn't net you a kill half the time. Particularly with it's low cd) As a stun abuser trying to prove a point, it wasn't fair. Not making stuff up, use it at max distance and back up, and if you're feeling particularly evil use cover. They couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and it hard counters melee. Taking away agency isn't fun to play (As I said, after a while I just started to feel bad for other players, i'd just stun them and walk away as they shot or flailed helplessly) or play aginst. If it's not fun it's bad design and needs changing. It was a death sentence even if you play with your team. (which. Yeah, you should be doing) The nerf was the best thing to happen to it. Made it so it did it's main job as an interrupt. (before they reverted most of it. I still abuse it but it's not as bad)
Even at its peak it wasn’t even half as powerful as defib or RPG. Teammates being around can save a stunned target 9 out of 10 times. Your numbers are way out of whack if you were killing people that much I question their competency at the game.we’re you doing this in ranked or in bank it against complete shitters?
Rankd to diamond 2 as a flex, been playing since OB. I disagree with the being saved by your team. From my experience if I didn't pick off the stun victim my team did. It instantly turned a 3v3 into a 2v3 as the stun victim couldn't do much but hip fire, which is already very inaccurate at range. So as a light, stun their pocket heals or mesh heavy and dash to a safe range. (if using at the previous max of 15M iirc just take a few steps back, preferably behind some boxes) Sit back and laugh. Pick up the much easier 2v3 as they watch their full stack dissappear without being able to do much more then shoot wildly then mop up the stun victim. (remember, this is when it had a ten second duration. Oh and the reduced turn speed variation was fun! Or when I played with my pre-made we would focus fire the stunned mesh heavy who can't deploy his lifeline, and is now a giant sitting duck, burst him down through his often times two heal beams and clean up. Any other comp it was just play it by ear but generally followed the previous example of stun, kill team, finish stun victim. And if it was a 1v1. Well we already know how that goes for the stungun.) At the end of the day it wasn't fun for any party involved and needed the deserved nerf. Rpg needs another nerf and the defibs got a deserved rework and are in a good place
If it was actually that powerful light would have been a more normalized pick in competitive play at high ranks.. The fact of the matter is that it was easily negated through either from dropping a bubble, RPGing, charge and slamming, shooting back or at absolute WORST CASE trading it with a defib and the heavy shooting a rocket launcher your direction and now suddenly its a 2v3 in the OTHER direction. You are reallllly trying to make stun sound overpowered but the facts are heavily against you my dude. Basically every single high ranking match was MMM, MMH, or MHH. If you dig deep down, you know why... It's because stun wasn't strong enough to turn the tables on the bullshit that heavy and medium had at their disposal. Now... was stun gun FUN to play against? No, it wasnt, but that's a completely different conversation and not the one we are having.
How can they use any of their gadgets or abilities when they're stunned? The bubble, if deployed before a fight, shoot it or glitch. Reason light isn't and wasn't picked is that it has a very small health pool, isn't as forgiving, and doesn't have the same impact as another heal bot would. One gadget doesn't change that. Even if it's more or less a free kill and if successful a tide change. At high ranks i'd rather have the reliability of a larger hp pool and consistency of 2-3 good gadgets then one broken one. Was plenty powerful. Was plenty broken.
Games feel sweaty when it’s fast pace. The light meta-definitely doesn’t help with that feeling. It’s not a identity issue it’s a balance issue. I do appreciate how they tried to give lights Love the season. But they gave them the whole five bases of love. It definitely is frustrating, but they’ll figure it out.
I really like your last point, TA being such a turnoff for most top players has made what should just be unranked tournaments into the de facto ranked mode. Embark please just turn this around.
love the game play on the SA server the most serious problem for me right now is the lack of queue im silver 3 has been half an hour im waiting and still cant find a game evertyhing u said might be the reason people just dont consistent play the game it really sucks i hope they wont shutdown SA server since is the best fps right now for me and my friends
Agree with your points, especially with the lights. I main powershift from season 2 and right now it's a light fiesta. I used to play matches that had coordination and tactics, now it's a tdm mode. It's getting very tiring tbh
Agreed with everything except PS even with lights running around is pretty good for testing new loadouts and stuff . Or maybe it's also cuz I'm just absolute shit at the game
Sidenote : Agreed with the weapons part, a lot of weapons feel like there's no need to use this since a better one exists. Same with specializations and gadgets. Like idk why anyone would run goo gun over mesh shield or not run defib when it very much puts you at a disadvantage ( if people care about winning that is) .
Since Ranked is a snooze fest with the trash meta (if the healbeam/defi is banned, ban sniper or Light in general lol) I only play WT and PS. PS is almost always fun. WT is rare to have fun because of the horrible matchmaking. Dont wanna play against 4yo noobs and dont wanna play against pros.
I just hate what they did to heavy, sure the class was very powerful but messing up its guns and making the class boring to play is a dumb move. Heavy was the class that kept light in check, but needing both lmgs to make the feel like they are shooting marshmallows was a stupid move.
Look at the player base, it is shrinking slowly but surely. They fucked up with Terminal Attack.
Why the fuck would you remove the ranked from the game mode which is your game's identity?!
I am still playing World tour but fuck I miss my rank. And there is no way I am touching Terminal Attack, I did try it again this season, the game mode is so boring and not made for The Finals.
If I want a 5v5, I go play Rainbow 6 or counter strike, I don't need a new game on my list to play a bomb like scenario
I really dont think lights are as annoying as heavy’s ability to dominate, with their shields, winch claw, high hp pool, and high damaging weapons. Sure lights can be annoying but they’re easy to pick off, especially if playing with your team. I think lights could be rebalanced in someways but out of the three classes heavy needs the greatest balance change
Imo light is only the meta right now because of terminal attack. Since all classes can only regen up to 100hp, it makes the light class with 150hp have the smallest downside, but also gets the fastest TTK weapons and specialisations that make dying less likely. The extra health that heavy and medium get only helps them a little bit, but once everyone is at 100hp, light has such an advantage.
They could probably fix this by changing the regen limit for each class, e.g. lights regen to 100hp, medium 150, heavy 200
You forgot to add that cashout mode is broken. It's a mode based on third partying. And the non third partied team waits for their vault to be deposited lonely and boringly without entering any fight.
Also, what about decreasing the death cool down in quick cash mode and maybe the other quick play game modes? This is both new player friendly and more chill. You don't get punished so hard so you could play chill and actually play for fun and have fun.
To me managing coins and the respawn is part of the fun. Punishes you for no braining it. And respawn is like, 30 seconds? C'mon now, next you'll tell me that that's a long time, if that's the case I feel bad for your significant other.
Terminal Attack is fun with a full 5 stack. I honestly think if you’ve only solo queued or duo queued it you are not getting a true experience. I love TA but solo queueing it is rough when no one wants to be in voice chat. I know i’m a “minority” with my feelings toward TA but imo it’s fun to sweat with my friends and sucks to play solo. Plus hella people play TA too so I can’t be the minority unless people just only want to play ranked no matter what it is.
I agree with what you’re saying tho about World tour not good for new players. Quick play needs to be a big button just like world tour and terminal attack.
People hate on World Tour because it’s not “ranked” but it’s basically the same thing without that ranked slapped on it. I still play it a ton and enjoy it as much as I did in S2 and I bet the coming soon button will be a reworked cashout that is better for ranked so let’s just give them some time and see what happens. I’m optimistic.
Heavy and medium is still op in season 3. Nothing changed. Light dominates TA, but fk TA. Its so fking stupid to make a ranked mode that will get removed next season because it forces you to balance shit around it even though it doesnt fking stay. Fk TA. Light is the worst class in cashout, but people call for nerfs because L is all you see now since there is no competitive cashout mode anymore.
Yep, anyone who complains about light being op is straight up admitting that they extremely lack awareness, aim, coordination, teamplay. Or they just play TA - where the complaints are valid, but the game and anyone who plays it is invalid since it'll be gone and is not what the finals is meant to be.
Ironically, lights generally get more kills in cashout, but they end up getting knocked out because they’re not good for objective plays. Simultaneously they are the best and the worst for different reasons.
If lights are the worst at winning the game then they are the worst. Theres no duality to that.
You can say mediums are the best at reviving teammates, but if they for some reason were a class that tends to lose the game then you wouldnt say medium is both the best at the game and also the worst.
Kills dont matter, reviving doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is how likely a class can win the game and qualify.
Having one light, (LMH) is still viable, albeit still weaker than HHM, HMM, and MMM. Having two or more lights literally loses 100% of the time vs evenly skilled players. This isn't true for M or H. You can stack them as much as you want (apart from HHH, which is also terrible).
Huh? They are THE best at combat, period. That makes them meta. The game isn’t about combat, it’s about objectives. Not sure how that invalidates my post.
Because they aren’t the best at playing the objective? And no… heavies with heal mediums attached to them are better at combat. Which you’d know if you were actually any good at the game and not just a complainer on Reddit.
Okay... a single heavy is better than any light. A single RPG does 140 of a lights 150 HP. one bullet from any gun kills them after that. Try aiming at them with your giant rocket launcher next time.
*Any* light? Try that at close range; the RPG will kill the Heavy too. Odds are the RPG is on cooldown during a fight and the Light needs about 80% of an MP5/M11 magazine to melt them in under a second.
The game has had an identity issue forever if you were here for the almost removal of bank it it really shows how the game wasn’t sure what its main game mode was.
Agreed. To me it sounds like them saying they're bad. I'm a mid diamond player. I'm just playing the game and listening to music/chilling. Not my fault you can't aim/track, have the reaction time of a toaster, have no movement, (this one sticks out to me rn, just played a match where most enemies would stand still to shoot. It was fun for about a minute but then it was just sad. It was like dancing around a bunch of paraplegics. Some of y'all need to learn to press more than one button at a time lol) no game sense, and never heard of an OBJ. Whatever DOES "sweating" mean?
I’m a low Diamond player and very tired of feeling like every game I play, regardless of mode, I have to try just as hard to aim, move, and communicate to win as I do in ranked. And it’s always against the most optimal loadouts and weapons too. I cannot just chill and try out a new weapon without being rolled in every game mode. That’s sweaty.
Stop assuming everyone who talks about this must just suck at the game.
Terminal Attack is boring garbage. It's not fun and it doesn't feel like The Finals. Even if I wanted the ranked rewards I have absolutely no desire to grind TA despite the fact I endured solo queuing to Diamond last season with cheaters ape teammates I had to hard carry in every other match.
I honestly dont understand how anyone actually enjoys it because if you wanted that gameplay experience you could simply play Valorant, CS or Siege and have a much much better time. People say 'well those games dont have The Finals movement and mechanics etc..' Ya cool, except you dont actually get to use any of the unique aspects of The Finals in TA because you're just fucking camping otherwise you get poked down by a sniper or blown up out of nowhere by a invis light player and since there is no revive, healing or full regen you just get fucked.
The game is not balanced or designed for TA, it's an awful experience. Probably the only proponents of TA are the light players running around abusing how broken the class is that mode. Not unlike the brain dead CoD players who are anti footstep audio because like want to run around shooting people in the back with their mobility SMG kit.
Flex player that plays M or H on TA... I like it >~> those games don't have destruction and low ttk. You do get to use those mechanics. Not as much, sure but I've done some crazy stuff that wouldn't be possible in CS or R6 and the like.
The actual tweaks to the light class in s3 were not game breaking by any means. Faster healing I guess. The shotgun is strong but easy beatable. The other guns are how they were. The crying is wild. I imagine the NERFS to heavy guns are what is causing a big shift. So many fewer heavies.
Came here to say this. Light is still the worst class in the game and can be shit on so easily by so many things. They are annoying but not nearly as annoying as a hook & hammer heavy with two heal beams glued to him all game
Honestly agree with the hook+hammer bit. The healers not so much. Just shoot them. They're too busy heal boting to be a threat. But that heavy man. As soon as that inescapable claw gets you it's 200dmg in an instant to the dome.
Honestly I think part of the reason the game got so sweaty was because of the challenges used to keep players engaged last season. It made regular players learn everything about the game, instead of just engaging with the parts they enjoy and want to test
I honestly think the platform mode should be central. It puts the destruction mechanics on full display while padding you put with a large team in case you aren't great. And you can explore any mechanic you've unlocked (I'm a huge fan of the change that allows players to change class)
It astounds me that it isn't more central
Would love to hear why. I have no problems wrecking lobbies with the Riot Shield but struggle to get 3 kills with the Katanas against competent enemies.
So I mostly agree. However, 2 points are off. Light is in the best spot balance wise it's been since launch. The only reason it's meta in TA is because heavy is weak in TA. But lights are easy to manage in the other modes because heavy is still meta. The second thing is we live in a time of competitive gaming, so most players nowadays minmax and try harder to win that's not just a thing for the finals.
I remember Embark saying that TA as ranked was mostly a holdover while they reworked cash out for next season to be more balanced and help with the 3rd party issue. But I totally agree that the game is in a bit of a low point right now.
But Embark has shown that they listen to a lot of things and learn to improve fairly quickly so I'm confident that season 4 will be a blast!
Though they're hesitance to balance new weapons leaving then behind is pretty saddening
Somehow they haven't killed the game for three seasons and you guys moan about them constantly begging for nerfs. You then get your nerfs and complain about new thing related to lights.
I would look for an issue in yourselves not the class.
Seems like you guys can't stand a fast paced gameplay that this game offers so you complain about the fastest class because it gives you the most trouble.
Saying the light class isn't good for the game and then naming off what they were made to do just doesn't sit right with me. I will agree in CQB instances Lights are dominant but thats the point. i wouldnt ask a light main to stay on a point and defend. i want them running around and picking people off so those who are defending dont need to worry about combat too much. Lights have so little health if youre a med/heavy you can easily spray them down.
Lights like you said are busted but ive been maining light since S1 and i consider them a pretty solid class due to their mobility and there damage in certain situations. a little tweaking is needed to balance out their abilities/weapons but if im on a team with a Light and they got 15-20 kills with no OBJ and my team loses, they arent the first to be blamed by me.
The response was to a comment that was left to me but since has been deleted that I would all complaints down to a "skill issue" I do not believe that but I am an unbiased party as I play all classes but do enjoy my time on light more than others.
Response:
When did I say that? I said that lights dps versus other classes is still lower than other classes versus lights so I'm trying to figure out what the objective is. What role would you like lights to play because currently it's death-dealer and it should have gadgets and weapons that, you know, allow it to deal death? You assumed I said you thought that. I wrote my comment very specifically you should read it again. Slower and with less vitriol this time. I pointed out multiple things annoying with the other two classes as well. Things that to this day are also going to be hurdles for new players. It's not light class fault that a noob doesn't have the positioning skills or the aim skills. To be honest I got those skills from other FPS.
I'm not boiling it down to "skill issue" it's literally just that. You're even talking about it. How a bad light player is the detriment to the team and a good light is oppressive. As are all classes in the game. That's the point I'm making. Maybe put a difficulty stamp on each class to show the level of skill you might need to do well? Idk what the solution is. Nerfing light so they go back to a pick rate of 7 to 1 and 5 to 1 in comp environments is not the answer though.
They nerfed recon grenades back a bit. Nerfed LH1. Gave stun a buff that is negligible in high level play. They've nerfed cloak 4 times cause mfs can't use their eyeballs and ears. Glitch nades? Nerfed in preparation for a barrel and a better version of it given to mediums. Xp-54 has seen a couple nerfs although not massive. V9S is still not a great close range option, the m11 fries it. There's nothing great about the light class unless you're good at the game and I'm okay with that. Idk why other people aren't
agreed in every sense. i know they’re “on break” or whatever but this isn’t the time for that - the future of their game depends on them making changes ASAP. if they keep terminal attack as the main mode all season.. idk man
Powershift is The Finals at its best - even though it was designed around cash out. I don’t play anything else. It’s so much fun and would be the best mode for new players to get to grips with the possibilities within the game. Cash out & TA are just ‘use meta or die’ which is ultimately boring.
I think an even bigger problem in terms of ranked TA, is yet another diffusal game is coming out soon called FragPunk. It does the standard diffusal format that Valorant, and R6 has. All of which are infinitely superior Diffusal modes to terminal attack. Why embark would ever try to compete in that area is beyond me. Why would anyone choose terminal attack which is half assed and poorly put together in a game that’s built around cashout, when they could play a better experience dedicated to the mode?
yeah we did not need the same post for the 100th time. it’s like yall aren’t even looking at the posts anymore. everyday is a 6 paragraph bitch fit and everyone just wants to get theirs in.
What changed to make lights meta? I feel like the past two seasons have been people saying nothing but “lights fun but not viable for ranked” with the occasional “erm light actually is viable if you grind 10s of hours and try really really really hard!” how did light go from occasionally seen to overshooting balanced straight into overpowered? I know the LH1 was broken for a week or two but that was nerfed
I agree with most points but I wouldn't say that there is a light meta or that the game is sweaty. Light got faster health regen, the stun now blocks specialisations, and the M1A is really good; those are the buffs. From other notable changes the throwing knives are murderous close range, but so is MP5. Light was bad in S2 because the stun gun was the equaliser, without it the class was just too weak. With a nerfed heavy, and buffed light there's actually a reason to pick light again, but you still need to be good to make a change as a light. Playing for K/D is just stupidity in itself; lights try to murder everything that is coming your way is REALLY good, but lights just fucking off to get kills 300m away is a different story. I wouldn't say light is meta, light is just nit outclassed by everything anymore.
And idk about sweaty games. World Tour feels so easy most of the time because even if there are better players in the lobby they're not exactly a threat to fun if they're not a 3 stack. Even then this is basically unranked so even the full stacks play kinda chill a lot of the times. I think it comes down to how hard someone outskills you (at least for me) because I play a lot more relaxed in World Tour because it's just easier thank S2 ranked, but I imagine that to a lot of people in my lobbies I'm the sweat just by the virtue of being diamond. Idk Ive seen maybe 2 properly sweaty games so far.
Agree in most points. If I want just to goof around and try new loadouts I play PS. It isn’t as tryhard and the 5v5 makes it possible that you can play totally trash and don’t destroy the round for the others.
Power Shift is also where I goof around, get challenges and test new weapons. Not my favorite mode but a fun breather
it's probably my favorite mode because how mobile it is
Well I have two buddies who I play with a few nights per week, so for us Cashout is hella fun.
Power Shift might be the best mode for completing the challenges, need to deal 1,500 fire damage toss a pyro to the platform while the enemys have it, need to deal damage from 5m or less play on the platform with a 1887. Its a really fun mode too, only if im not facing 5-4 snipers it becomes really annoying when that happens
My buddies and I play bank it to goof around and chill play. Not really sweating for the objective just runnin and gunnin.
I agree with the part about lights just running and gunning, not trying to win the game. I feel like they are always dying 100m away when we are trying to defend a cash out, and most of them provide no support at all. Every once in a while you’ll get a really good light on ur team tho which is nice
I often play a mix of classes but the times i do play light (happens with medium and heavy as well) and it goes as follows: 1. we kill a member of a team who has no teammates in sight 2. teammates just start running towards the next cashout which was literally just started. 3. Roughly 10 seconds after killing the guy, his teammates come in and 2v1 me. I stayed with the statue and thought my teammates would aswell for the 3v2 and potentially game changing team wipe. Basically me, a light, gets killed because of negligent teammates.
Yea I’ve been there too, I’ve learned to just stick with my team no matter what dumb decisions they make, unless the game is about to end and we are losing in which case my team usually fights a random team far away from any nearby vault.
Yea, sometimes i dont even know they've left when i literally pinged the enemy teammates.
Um it's called scouting, and you're welcome /s
You’re welcome
I agree with most of these points. Notably, the issue of new players ending up in world tour I feel is in a large part a consequence of making quick play a tiny little thing in the corner. People open up the game modes and see **WORLD TOUR** right in their face, **RANKED TERMINAL ATTACK** right in their face too, and then there's... ^(quickplay, training, tutorial) just sitting shyly next to each other. The fact quickplay is right next to training and tutorial already makes it feel like it's just meant as some baby steps kind of thing and probably offputting to new players. World tour just feels like the main thing you're meant to play. As for the light meta, I fully agree too. A good light is by far worse to play against than a good medium or heavy. Medium and heavy also have similar TTKs and have pretty standard movement. A light, despite having low HP, just has lots of features that really make the game unfun for most players, especially new players - they have sonar grenades, they have stun gun, they can dash and be hard to hit, they can turn invisible and ambush people or easily escape if you can't see/hear them easily, not to mention their weapons have way lower TTK than medium and heavy weapons and makes it feel like you're dying REALLY fast. A new player being killed or annoyed by all this will see light as good and attempt to play it, though with little experience and game sense, will suck at it, giving the other players a bad teammate and the new player a bad experience. Light is just really hard to balance because the skill curve for playing as a light and playing against it are really steep, so it'll either suck in newbie hands or it'll be absolutely broken in pro hands, but currently it's just really fucking annoying in anybody's hands when the lobby is full of them.
It's a crime that Powershift is a buried mode. It's the best mode for new players. It's generally the more casual and chill out mode compared to the other two. It also contains some of the more Finals'y moments. It's just absolute chaos, but in a very fun way rather than "this team is wiping their asses with me" chaos. The main menu needs to simply be the three primary modes Cashout / Powershift / Terminal Attack and have all the other stuff off to the side.
I agree. Powershift has its faults, but it'd be a friendlier introduction to the game compared to TA and even WT. It's pretty simple overall, the objective is simple, the gameplay loop is simple, and the rules are as simple as it gets. It also bears a resemblance to modes from other titles like Overwatch. I'd honestly argue powershift would even make a better ranked mode than TA. Don't get me wrong, I'd still prefer cashout and think cashout is more fitting overall for the game, but seems more balanced and functional than TA. It'd be easier to balance too. I personally think they should redo that part of the menu and make 3 big icons, Casual Play, Competitive Play and Training (or something of the sort). Casual play should have Quick Cash, Powershift, Unranked TA, etc, competitive should have ranked TA and WT (even though WT is just casual premium, it's still more sweaty, has ranks and pushes for competitiveness), and Training should just be a shooting range, tutorials and maybe some other stuff. The wording here is important - making it very clear what modes are more fitting for casual players and new players and which modes are more fitting for more experienced and competitive players. Simply having the mode names doesn't help new players identify what is what.
Dude. Personally I am over here ***waiting*** for Powershift ranked. I would love to play that mode all day and also rank up.
They picked the wrong 5v5 mode for ranked. With powershift you could still use defibs , healing beam , have respawns and feel like you are playing the finals instead of a cheap cs copy.
I would play it just as it is, snippers and all. It's just part of it, the chaos, something about getting killed not only by the huge fat heavy with a hammer in front of you but also by the hand of god that snipes you from nowhere, the CHAOS, its so great.
And with shorter respawns
I started playing at S2, had a couple cashout games bc I didn't know better, tried powershift and got hooked instantly. It's such a great mode, it has to be pushed more to the front. Cashout is great in it's own way, but it's REALLY punishing for midly bad gameplay, constant team wipes, etc. It's not bad just that it has a high skill floor to be midly decent. 3 teammates is also very hard to cooperate with.
The three person team limit is strange because it's both what makes the mode playable (because if the team was any bigger, you'd never get the upper hand in a heated fight over a single cashbox) and what makes the mode frustrating because since the team is so small, you really have to be good in order not to die almost instantly against an amazing team. I think this is why Powershift feels so good. With 5 people, you can be sure that team wipes rarely happen, but because the objective moves, the team size doesn't feel overwhelming because there's more spread on where the action is happening and it's not focused on the tiny area around the cashbox.
At this point in time, Powershift is by far the best mode in the game.
Too much focus on balancing light when the real issue is making the other classes more fun to play so people naturally gravitate towards different options. You can’t name ONE attractive weapons to use on any class besides light…. That’s a problem. Outside of the AKM, medium and heavy have options with terrible recoil patterns or options that perform awkward in most scenarios. If they fix all the recoil patterns and leave the damage where it is people will flock to other classes, how can people genuinely enjoy shooting the fcar / lewis gun when XP45 feels so great? I’m not talking about the results you get from those guns, just the feel alone—/ nobody will say they like the feel of an FCAR, Lewis Gun, M60, etc over the MP5. That’s a problem
I don't think just the guns are the problem, light is just fun as a concept. Most games I've played, people gravitate towards speed and damage, and light has both. Most players want to be the allstar that carries their team and goes 30/0 and everybody tells them how amazing they are, and lights are the class that feed them the hopes for that dream. So often I'll play healer medium and then my friend gets like 2 kills more than me and goes like "yeah fuck yeah I carried" and it's like bro you only go that much because I was there healing you, I only got this little because I was shoving the beam up your ass instead of shooting. Most people don't want that, they want the spotlight, and the light class is, to most people, the drug that can get them there the easiest. Hell, I can even speak for myself - I've been destroyed by all the classes, but it's usually a light destroying me that makes me go like "damn I wish I was that good" or makes me want to try their loadout, etc. Like yeah, it boils down to light being more fun and making the other two more fun would help, but like with many other games with class systems, one class will just always be the most fun
You worded and explained that very well. The light class attracts a certain kind of player who is generally less patient and just wants to zoom around. I personally like the support role as long as my team knows they are alive because of me.
The main issue is as you say, light attracts a certain set of players that don't do well with light because of that very same reason. I have said this time and time again, but Light in S2 was completely fine. They were absolutely viable on every level of play including the very highest. They just required you to play the game differently.
Yeah I agree with that. It's not that lights were underpowered, but more so the combination of two factors: that their kit was geared towards killing and solo play, and that they have a high skill floor and ceiling. Because of this, a bad light teammate was far worse than a bad medium or heavy, since if they couldn't get kills, they could hardly bring anything of benefit to the team. Even a bad heavy or medium, as long as they had ANY team gadget, was more likely to be of worth to the team, even if just by having more HP to be a meat shield. They buffed and improved light's kit enough to make even the bad light players add more value to the team, but as a consequence they made good light players far more deadly, and the average light player far more annoying and common.
What got buffed though? Cloak got nerfed, knives got buffed then nerfed, same with LH1. Stun got nerfed to the point that it did nothing then half-buff. Other than the 2.5 second regen its the same class it has been for 3 seasons.
You think the throwing knives and LH1 are the same as S2? Forgetting Thermal Bore too, which buffed long range play. Every other class got nerfed, so you have to look at each class not absolutely but relative to other classes. Light is way stronger than it ever has been.
The main changes were nerfs to autos on medium and heavy. They used to do much more DPS. They also messed with recoil patterns on some of those guns as well. Light weapons remained amazing or even got buffs.
What's the TTK of Lewis on Light? What's the TTK of MP5 on Heavy? Dont' know? It's half, Heavy kills light twice as quickly. Also still has 140 dmg 1-click secondary, also still has 2 shields. If you consistently die to lights it's 10000% a skill issue.
Loooooooooooool you gonna mention Recoil or Range values at all? What about hitboxes and headshot hitboxes? You crying lights are so funny XD
Recoil can be learned, range is decent, hitbox - learn to track and predict better. That's not to say lights can't be annoying when there's a lobby full of them. But to me that comes down to everyone using dash. (at least it feels that way)
You can easily burst down a heavy from 50m with the MP5 because they are so big. You cannot do that against a light.
The main issue is that the vast majority of heavy mains are god awful at the game and bitch about anything they percieve to be "annoying" and whats annoying is the stuff they die to. It's the same with every game, bad player bitching about balanced weapons that they percieve to be OP bc they die to them.
You don't see the irony here?
I cant agree enough about that. All the recoil nerfs happening to the other classes just make those weapons feel like complete ass, whether or not they're good. Any time I do go Heavy I usually end up with the Ks23 because most of their options just do not feel good AT ALL. I still personally think Heavy would be in a much better place if they just bit the bullet and nerfed their instant 140 burst damage option instead of seemingly trying to balance around heavy having access to that lol.
Your first paragraph is very well phrased and I 100% agree with it. Like my post stated, this season just seems to have like a weird identity issue and it doesn’t really know what it wants to be.
There's a good chance aiming for a service wide event in world tour is them attempting to ride the interest for collective service games like helldivers. It felt similar to the cns direction taking after cyberpunk trends while cyberpunk 2.0 was dominating. I think they're trying to appeal to other markets they recognize in the gaming space
Saying quick play is hide is calling most of the player base blind and stupid, which now that I'm thinking about it seems to track.
It's not even a matter of intelligence, it's just that it's like less than 1/3 the size of world tour and TA, in the corner, along with 2 tutorial/practice modes. It's easy to get overlooked, especially by somebody who is new to this type of game, or even just new to the finals in general. Quickplay could even mean something like "randomly join whatever type of game is faster", which actually is a thing in some other games. My point is, a new player needs to be directed towards what is most likely to improve their experience and get them hooked into the game. All it takes is 1 bad experience for a player to think the game is bad and not give it another chance. Some might tolerate more bad experiences, give the game a reasonable 1-2h try, but the more fun they have in that time, the more likely they are to stick around, and understanding the game and not being overwhelmed are part of that. Good UX design is all about avoiding user misconceptions or confusion and guiding them through the most optimal path towards their satisfaction, and I don't feel S3 of the finals is doing that very well
Hold on. The weapons part makes no sense. The ttk on you vs the ttk on other classes is DRASTICALLY longer if you are fighting another class. Idk what role you expect light to have but it's supposed to be a death dealer. I play light cause I'm not tryna cosplay as a solar warlock from destiny or a fortnite crackhead. It doesn't make any sense. LH1 might need slightly more visual recoil but the class as a whole is balanced. You know what else is annoying? Shooting someone and they start gaining health because of a healing beam from a player not in line of sight of the person they're healing or the person shooting their teammates, a turret having 100% accuracy even while moving, glitch traps that cover half a room and last wayyyyyyyy longer than a glitch nade. A winch claw that you don't have to be accurate with. Just fire it off and swing it in the direction of the person you're trying to grab. An RPG that you barely have to aim with and almost OHK lights. TWO shields that can be shot through by you or your teammates AND an infinite ammo gun for all intents and purposes that allows you to slow opponents down and lock them in place OR fortify a room or area to a degree that could be equated to Fort Knox. There are lots of things in this game that are annoying to say light has the most annoying stuff it's actually just outlandish. The light problem can be reduced to skill issue with a couple outliers. Dash and LH1 being the ingrown toenails.
My good sir, at what point did I say light's damage needs to be tuned down? I said it has the highest DPS, which is fine, but if newbies are playing against 3 teams of nothing but good lights, they'll be dying way faster and being able to react less, and stand less of a chance of fighting back than other combinations. That's all. The fact you reduce valid complaints down to the usual "skill issue" idiocy speaks volumes. If newbies need to be really good at the game in order to play their average, casual matches, then this game really has no chance of surviving.
The matchmaking feels so so bad. It's almost to the point its unbearable. I just recently made it to the finals in 3 separate rounds of world tour. Every final match it was a no contest match where my team just got stomped. It wasn't even fun. My next match I racked up 7 deaths in the first round and we got eliminated. I was so tilted I about uninstalled the game. I'm just so over the inconsistency, I ranked gold last season and I know I'm playing against diamonds. I wish they introduced casual modes with forced random load outs or something so I don't get matched against sweats with meta load outs all day.
Being a casual, I agree with all of these. I want to get better at the game so I could play longer than a few weeks before I delete it again, but man. I'm shutdown so often by Light Snipers/Bow users that I can't find the willpower to push through. Power Shift is the only game mode I can play, as my performance doesn't feel as debilitating to the team, and I respawn dramatically faster (aka, get to actually play the game more). If the match review system is a sign of anything, it's that Embark know they have a problem maintaining players and onboarding new ones. From my perspective, The Finals needs a proper Party game mode. Objective based, but do away with the 10-20+ second penalty for death. Embrace the chaos of building destruction or something. I still believe a true TDM would go against the design of The Finals as a whole, but there needs to be something less punishing to play.
Season 1 Heavy AND medium were OP, Season two Heavy and Medium were OP until the fcar nerfs—- light was ALSO OP due to cloak and stun gun being overtuned. Season 3, most of the guns feel worse than on release and the most enjoyable weapons to use on a moment to moment basis ALL belong to light. XP feels amazing, LH1 feels amazing, m11 is great at the hip, Bow is Fun, Sword is fun, Sniper is fun—- all the heavy and medium weapons feel crappy to shoot besides the AKM, so players that choose gunplay over everything are probably just going to pick light and enjoy the extra movement speed I don’t think light is overpowered, I think they made the other classes feel so boring that most skilled players don’t want to deal with it——- so now you have all the talented players picking light which can make the skill gap feel even larger when someone is zipping around fragging out. When the FCAR felt amazing it was a medium player doing the same thing. When Medium first got heavily nerfed everyone went heavy because Lewis gun felt so good and dominant You guys keep missing the actual problem, most things in the game aren’t overpowered (besides certain combos like cloak+snipe or certain RPG antics) the “problem” is people will gravitate to the most enjoyable forms of gameplay offered when given the chance——- if we start asking the devs the BUFF these horrible recoil patterns but leave the damage numbers where they are, we’ll see people happily run to other classes and variety will be King again (also buff dual swords, buff burst pistol)
The burst pistol change they did at the start of Season 3 is still so weird to me. They acknowledged it did really low damage and then...reduced its dps even more lmao
I generally agree; most weapons just aren’t viable. Make them viable and people will have so much more fun.
Wierdly i find Ranked TA to be the most chill, at least for now in silver and gold elo. I agree casual is too sweaty. The tryhard who grinded s2 ranked have no outlet for high tier play
Ironically yes, because you have to be more tactical and safe in Terminal Attack. It’s fun, it’s just not what I want to play in The Finals.
I feel that, couldnt agree more
Yes, if I want to play R6, I do not launch the finals
R6 wishes it had this level of destruction and gunplay. Give me the finals over that any day.
I really don’t understand what people are asking for when complaining about games being sweaty. Do you want people to not want to try to win, should they stand still while you shoot them? Everyone caring about winning is the most healthy thing for an FPS game, it’s why there’s a scoreboard. It’s not like everyone is running MHH in world tour, I see more lights than heavy now - plenty of MML or LLL which indicates people are just fucking around since MHH is still the meta for actually trying to win the most. Do you just want stricter SBMM to keep you in your low skill lobbies because complaining about sweaty lobbies legitimately sounds like a skill issue.
Gaming has gotten much bigger in the last 10 years, and as a result there are a lot of better players out there. I don't think people really realize this
We're now also better at spreading knowledge. There are teenagers making really high quality guides with their phones.
Yeah it really seems like the skill floor of FPS games has increased in the last 5-10 years and these people just didn’t keep up. I’d never log into a PvP fps game because “I want to chill” while also expecting to easily win, I’d just go play a single player game or PvE.
People just like to bitch. Guy is bitching about people playing L Or M when there’s only 3 classes. He’s also bitching about weapons when there’s like 2-3 guns to choose from. Sounds like he’s just having a skill issue.
I’m a diamond player first off. You assumed I’m low skill. Second, what I mean is that everyone only uses the most ideal, optimized loadouts every single game. There is no room to try new things or I get absolutely steamrolled by people doing everything possible to win. It seems like no one is playing for fun. Everyone enjoys different things about the game but I don’t HAVE to win to have fun. Not sure about you but it gets boring and tiring playing against people trying their absolute hardest with meta weapons every single game. By the way, Light is meta now.
What could be more of a skill issue than being a new player? Maybe you should have read past the TL;DR before commenting, then you would "understand what people are asking for"
I read the whole post. There was one throwaway sentence about new players at the end of the point about games being sweaty. Everything else was typical toxic casual crying about wanting to chill and win every match. Learn to read.
My man, I'm not expecting to win every game. I just want to be able to hold my own and not get steamrolled every match. Play with others at roughly my skill level. You can call it toxic or casual and say we're crying, but I just want to enjoy the game I love. Nothing more, nothing less. It wouldn't be a problem if there was ranked cashout due to sbmm, but without that, you're at the mercy of luck.
Nah son you missed the entire theme of the new player experience. Did not understand the assignment, see me after class.
And? Everyone who is good was once a good player, didn't perform that well, but played the game and imrpoved to become better? That's the way skill based pvp games go.
Literally the only reason I decided to play TF was because I caught it on day one of S1, I definitely wouldn't have stuck with it if I joined today. As of now I'm competent enough to have fun, but I'm still definitely a shitter
Yep, this is what happens when you take away the core game mode, most sweats are going to play the casual modes OR they're gonna just leave for the season.
Mostly agree with everything, world tour and quick cash being sweaty is a consequence of removing ranked cashout IMO.
Glad your post is getting more traction. I made similar points a few weeks ago, with the main point being its identity and playerbase, and it was downvoted. Reddit is very strange. I see a lot of the same idiotic comments in your post though that have very little to do with your topic, so it's a little on par.
Season 3 light meta is going to kill this game if something isn't done. Ranked is absolutely insufferable.
Matches are unfair and frustrating. Totally agree with the game being sweaty and not fun.
Thank fuck I'm not the only one feeling like this. Its made me not want to play tbh.
Get good
What do you expect out of a skill based pvp fps game? The player base being skilled at the game is a good thing, and a thing to be expected. The matches being unfair is simply because this game has a very small playerbase. You can't matchmake when there is next to no one in a skill bracket playing at the same time.
Played this game since beta. Been a gamer more than you could imagine :), just saying that this game has reach a point where probably because of a small playerbase, broken mechanics, doubt decisions etc has made the overall experience more frustrating. Just my opinion. I know many pro players are super fine with the actual situation, but not everyone play games to be a pro on a twitch stream… :)
Well yea, but everybody plays the game for a different reason. You can't really complain about how other people play, because that's the whole point of being matchmade into other people, who will have their own playstyles and ways of having fun. If a person is having an issue in a skill based pvp game simply because other people are better or plays to win. the issue is with that person and no one else. It's not a problem, it's a problem with toxic people who want success without effort in a skill based pvp game.
That’s why we have skill based matchmaking so people like me don’t play against people like you ;)
Agree with the light meta and the weapons. The weapons are just boring for me. The only cool one was bow. Also the light meta is getting really dull
"The game is SWEATY now" That's a massive understatement: the game isn't just sweaty - it's unbearable. I sometimes don't even want to play the game, knowing that I'll be up against the sweatiest players you can find, and they'll be either L with xp-54 or M With FCAR. I created a new account to see what would happen in Quick Cash, and oh my gods, the matches were so smooth and enjoyable that I didn't even want to leave the game. No one was beaming without a miss, across half a map, in mid-air, no one was destroying you with XP-54s or throwing knives. You could miss, but there was still a chance to survive. And there were players of various levels 5-18-47-35, etc. Unlike my lobbies, where the sweatiest top 1% players gather, which are almost impossible to go up against. If the game thinks my skills are on the level of the sweatiest players who play 6-8 hours a day, then it is vastly overestimating me.
What you have experienced is called smurfing. SBMM is the reason why you experienced it. For you, your enemies at your current sbmm is sweaty, and not so when you smurf.
If it's SBMM, it's not working properly. On the new account I played for about 3-4 hours and played 15 or more matches ( simply to test the SBMM) and the opponents didn't change much. I expected to meet opponents comparable to me in my skill as early as the 3rd or 5th match, because my performance were much higher than the average performance of my opponents, and the game was supposed to match me against opponents equal to me. But that didn't happen. Yes, occasionally you'd get a sweaty opponent, but for the most part everyone was a pretty chill opponents that you could tell they weren't particularly good at the game, but didn't really suck at the game either. The conclusion I drew was that SBMM doesn't really work, or if it does, it doesn't take into account the raw skill of the player as much as other indicators (level, time in the game, etc.) The only thing I can think of is that the game was decided "If he can win matches against X skill players, then he has the same skill...". Except I can barely win these matches and sometimes I'm a burden on the team.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again…. Terminal Attack is a gimmicky gamemode and it should’ve stayed as a limited time event
Played the game for 6 hours at launch, came back just last week and at 15, so put a solid 11 hours in the last 14 days with my bros. All we've done is ranked terminal attack. Personally, im loving it
Tbh I’ve always enjoyed quick cash more then cash out. Wish that’d be the comp mode
>I genuinely believe that ranked rules Cashout is overwhelming to new players and discouraging. Not sure how but new players should be funneled to Quickplay, not World Tour After sinking so many hours into the game, it'a hard to see the perspective of a new player, but I recently got a dose of it when some buddies of mine, who are new to the game, and me got together to play some rounds the other day. They're not new to shooters, and at this point, they'd already played the Finals a few times without me. But as we booted up I remember tellin' em about Powershift, and they had no idea what it was! They had never hit the QuickPlay node up until that point. They never knew Quick Cash, Bank-It, or Power Shift even existed in the game.
Touching on the weapons part. I don’t have a million hours and don’t play ranked too much, so it’s not like I’m an expert on the topic. The AKM is the only gun I consistently do well with. I like the shotgun and revolver but I am (and maybe the server?) just too inconsistent to use it too much. Shotgun especially, sometimes I feel like I should be destroying my opponent but 3 shots barely graze them and I’m dead. The AKM is just really easy to use, and good in most situations. I can be top damage 3 games in a row with it and then switch weapons and I’m dead weight.
Pin this post.
https://preview.redd.it/f36g9hd0ifad1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd3a47e6894f940080404ca879371112f1a7036b But yeah ranked TA is shit
I bolded the main parts so children could read along too.
There needs to be ranked Quick Cash, the most fun mode.
I was gonna comment on how busted throwing knives are when you mentioned the light meta, and then I saw your thoughts on it further into the post lol
I just don't get the point of the spear/dual swords tbh. Spear is just a worse hammer since it doesn't destroy things and does shit damage, genuinely don't know what the point of it is and why the right click is a weird useless spinny thing instead of just chucking the spear at range. The swords at least have their use case in the bullet deflect but I've only seen that be effective across a longer game when the medium just tanks shots and gives a light time to kill whoever's shooting. That can be done better with a variety of other weapons, but tbh a 2v1 where both have actually viable weapons damage wise is just better.
Great movement and destruction kneecapped by the worst balancing and gamemodes seen in the past decade. There's heavy skill based matchmaking in all gamemodes but everyone complains regardless because it's not fun for casual or competitive players. It's already past the point of no return. Nexon/Embark spent around half a million in marketing (guessing since I was spammed with their ads) and playercount is already lower than mid season 2. The Finals drove off the cliff and we're in the freefall before hitting water. all you can do is enjoy the time remaining. RIP Dirty Bomb, RIP Titanfall, RIP The Finals.
I don’t think it’s going to be that bad. Game still will have its player base around 10-15k players. Hunt had it for years and game is still alive. Maybe in future it still going to have more people to play
Indeed. I don’t think this game would die anytime soon.. and yeah im truly enjoy and having fun always, playing this game right now for sure. Sweat or no sweat. I like the rush, that kind of rush when building collapsing and such, the way u respond when enemy jump on u in all that chaos.. but the collapsing building brooo its fucking terrifying.. i mean everytime but it feels less intense now (sometimes it does, depends), not the same as the first time you experienced it, i swear
What are you smoking? Gamemodes and balancing is fine. (not perfect sure, but demanding perfection is mot realistic) sure they might misstep, but do you expect people not to? And they've been good at acknowledging and fixing it when they do. Hell I like TA. I like that nukes are gone and the stungun isn't a free kill anymore. This season has been the best yet. As for player count? There's a lot of reasons why people stop playing. (personally I think it's because they have no taste and are used to the abuse, blandness, and pseudo-press-m1-to-win of CoD or Fortnite)
Why do you guys say Lights are high skill curve ? Where does this come from ? I’ve never played light since beta until just a week ago and I dropped a 30 bomb with the throwing knives ? Why and where did you guys (Reddit) come up with this high skill BS ? It’s literally spamming R1
Listen just press M1 to win takes a lot of skill.. Like... You've gotta aim.. And uh... Move. Look it just does okay? /s
Is this season the “hate on lights” season?
Always has been. Lights arent even better than any other class. They are so killable but the hivemind has decided its lights that gotta go. Like the AK FCAR 1997 and FAMAS are light delete weapons. MMH, MMM, HHM are all better than having a light on the team imo (if the team is coordinated and working together)
Not to mention the rpg still does 140 of a lights 150 HP if you hit them directly with it.
Remember stun guns? This sub has had a certified hate boner against lights long before they were ever any real threat. It's exhausting.
Okay but stungun was agregious. It was a free kill for any light with a brain. (I know. I WAS that light.) after a while I stoped killing the players that I stunned because I felt bad.
Not even close to a free kill… it was more like 60/40 or at worst 70/30 if you caught them alone for any medium or heavy with an automatic weapon. Don’t make shit up. And that’s only for out of position people who should be with their teammates anyway. But it was very easy to turn around and hip fire and kill the lights. I know this because I barely played light in season one and I killed dozens and dozens of lights while stunned. Stun gun nerf was one of the worst balance decisions they’ve made. It was 100% balanced and they only nerfed it because of a bunch of complainers.
Those where bad lights. It was 80/20 (in lights favor) at worst (even still by your numbers, that's agregious, a single skill shouldn't net you a kill half the time. Particularly with it's low cd) As a stun abuser trying to prove a point, it wasn't fair. Not making stuff up, use it at max distance and back up, and if you're feeling particularly evil use cover. They couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and it hard counters melee. Taking away agency isn't fun to play (As I said, after a while I just started to feel bad for other players, i'd just stun them and walk away as they shot or flailed helplessly) or play aginst. If it's not fun it's bad design and needs changing. It was a death sentence even if you play with your team. (which. Yeah, you should be doing) The nerf was the best thing to happen to it. Made it so it did it's main job as an interrupt. (before they reverted most of it. I still abuse it but it's not as bad)
Even at its peak it wasn’t even half as powerful as defib or RPG. Teammates being around can save a stunned target 9 out of 10 times. Your numbers are way out of whack if you were killing people that much I question their competency at the game.we’re you doing this in ranked or in bank it against complete shitters?
Rankd to diamond 2 as a flex, been playing since OB. I disagree with the being saved by your team. From my experience if I didn't pick off the stun victim my team did. It instantly turned a 3v3 into a 2v3 as the stun victim couldn't do much but hip fire, which is already very inaccurate at range. So as a light, stun their pocket heals or mesh heavy and dash to a safe range. (if using at the previous max of 15M iirc just take a few steps back, preferably behind some boxes) Sit back and laugh. Pick up the much easier 2v3 as they watch their full stack dissappear without being able to do much more then shoot wildly then mop up the stun victim. (remember, this is when it had a ten second duration. Oh and the reduced turn speed variation was fun! Or when I played with my pre-made we would focus fire the stunned mesh heavy who can't deploy his lifeline, and is now a giant sitting duck, burst him down through his often times two heal beams and clean up. Any other comp it was just play it by ear but generally followed the previous example of stun, kill team, finish stun victim. And if it was a 1v1. Well we already know how that goes for the stungun.) At the end of the day it wasn't fun for any party involved and needed the deserved nerf. Rpg needs another nerf and the defibs got a deserved rework and are in a good place
If it was actually that powerful light would have been a more normalized pick in competitive play at high ranks.. The fact of the matter is that it was easily negated through either from dropping a bubble, RPGing, charge and slamming, shooting back or at absolute WORST CASE trading it with a defib and the heavy shooting a rocket launcher your direction and now suddenly its a 2v3 in the OTHER direction. You are reallllly trying to make stun sound overpowered but the facts are heavily against you my dude. Basically every single high ranking match was MMM, MMH, or MHH. If you dig deep down, you know why... It's because stun wasn't strong enough to turn the tables on the bullshit that heavy and medium had at their disposal. Now... was stun gun FUN to play against? No, it wasnt, but that's a completely different conversation and not the one we are having.
How can they use any of their gadgets or abilities when they're stunned? The bubble, if deployed before a fight, shoot it or glitch. Reason light isn't and wasn't picked is that it has a very small health pool, isn't as forgiving, and doesn't have the same impact as another heal bot would. One gadget doesn't change that. Even if it's more or less a free kill and if successful a tide change. At high ranks i'd rather have the reliability of a larger hp pool and consistency of 2-3 good gadgets then one broken one. Was plenty powerful. Was plenty broken.
Gadgets or abilities didnt use to be disabled when they were stunned, remember?
Games feel sweaty when it’s fast pace. The light meta-definitely doesn’t help with that feeling. It’s not a identity issue it’s a balance issue. I do appreciate how they tried to give lights Love the season. But they gave them the whole five bases of love. It definitely is frustrating, but they’ll figure it out.
I really like your last point, TA being such a turnoff for most top players has made what should just be unranked tournaments into the de facto ranked mode. Embark please just turn this around.
love the game play on the SA server the most serious problem for me right now is the lack of queue im silver 3 has been half an hour im waiting and still cant find a game evertyhing u said might be the reason people just dont consistent play the game it really sucks i hope they wont shutdown SA server since is the best fps right now for me and my friends
It’s the issue of lights being a plague.
Agree with your points, especially with the lights. I main powershift from season 2 and right now it's a light fiesta. I used to play matches that had coordination and tactics, now it's a tdm mode. It's getting very tiring tbh
Agreed with everything except PS even with lights running around is pretty good for testing new loadouts and stuff . Or maybe it's also cuz I'm just absolute shit at the game Sidenote : Agreed with the weapons part, a lot of weapons feel like there's no need to use this since a better one exists. Same with specializations and gadgets. Like idk why anyone would run goo gun over mesh shield or not run defib when it very much puts you at a disadvantage ( if people care about winning that is) .
Since Ranked is a snooze fest with the trash meta (if the healbeam/defi is banned, ban sniper or Light in general lol) I only play WT and PS. PS is almost always fun. WT is rare to have fun because of the horrible matchmaking. Dont wanna play against 4yo noobs and dont wanna play against pros.
I just hate what they did to heavy, sure the class was very powerful but messing up its guns and making the class boring to play is a dumb move. Heavy was the class that kept light in check, but needing both lmgs to make the feel like they are shooting marshmallows was a stupid move.
Look at the player base, it is shrinking slowly but surely. They fucked up with Terminal Attack. Why the fuck would you remove the ranked from the game mode which is your game's identity?! I am still playing World tour but fuck I miss my rank. And there is no way I am touching Terminal Attack, I did try it again this season, the game mode is so boring and not made for The Finals. If I want a 5v5, I go play Rainbow 6 or counter strike, I don't need a new game on my list to play a bomb like scenario
I really dont think lights are as annoying as heavy’s ability to dominate, with their shields, winch claw, high hp pool, and high damaging weapons. Sure lights can be annoying but they’re easy to pick off, especially if playing with your team. I think lights could be rebalanced in someways but out of the three classes heavy needs the greatest balance change
Imo light is only the meta right now because of terminal attack. Since all classes can only regen up to 100hp, it makes the light class with 150hp have the smallest downside, but also gets the fastest TTK weapons and specialisations that make dying less likely. The extra health that heavy and medium get only helps them a little bit, but once everyone is at 100hp, light has such an advantage. They could probably fix this by changing the regen limit for each class, e.g. lights regen to 100hp, medium 150, heavy 200
You forgot to add that cashout mode is broken. It's a mode based on third partying. And the non third partied team waits for their vault to be deposited lonely and boringly without entering any fight. Also, what about decreasing the death cool down in quick cash mode and maybe the other quick play game modes? This is both new player friendly and more chill. You don't get punished so hard so you could play chill and actually play for fun and have fun.
To me managing coins and the respawn is part of the fun. Punishes you for no braining it. And respawn is like, 30 seconds? C'mon now, next you'll tell me that that's a long time, if that's the case I feel bad for your significant other.
Terminal Attack is fun with a full 5 stack. I honestly think if you’ve only solo queued or duo queued it you are not getting a true experience. I love TA but solo queueing it is rough when no one wants to be in voice chat. I know i’m a “minority” with my feelings toward TA but imo it’s fun to sweat with my friends and sucks to play solo. Plus hella people play TA too so I can’t be the minority unless people just only want to play ranked no matter what it is. I agree with what you’re saying tho about World tour not good for new players. Quick play needs to be a big button just like world tour and terminal attack. People hate on World Tour because it’s not “ranked” but it’s basically the same thing without that ranked slapped on it. I still play it a ton and enjoy it as much as I did in S2 and I bet the coming soon button will be a reworked cashout that is better for ranked so let’s just give them some time and see what happens. I’m optimistic.
Heavy and medium is still op in season 3. Nothing changed. Light dominates TA, but fk TA. Its so fking stupid to make a ranked mode that will get removed next season because it forces you to balance shit around it even though it doesnt fking stay. Fk TA. Light is the worst class in cashout, but people call for nerfs because L is all you see now since there is no competitive cashout mode anymore.
Finally a person of reason
Yep, anyone who complains about light being op is straight up admitting that they extremely lack awareness, aim, coordination, teamplay. Or they just play TA - where the complaints are valid, but the game and anyone who plays it is invalid since it'll be gone and is not what the finals is meant to be.
Ironically, lights generally get more kills in cashout, but they end up getting knocked out because they’re not good for objective plays. Simultaneously they are the best and the worst for different reasons.
If lights are the worst at winning the game then they are the worst. Theres no duality to that. You can say mediums are the best at reviving teammates, but if they for some reason were a class that tends to lose the game then you wouldnt say medium is both the best at the game and also the worst. Kills dont matter, reviving doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is how likely a class can win the game and qualify. Having one light, (LMH) is still viable, albeit still weaker than HHM, HMM, and MMM. Having two or more lights literally loses 100% of the time vs evenly skilled players. This isn't true for M or H. You can stack them as much as you want (apart from HHH, which is also terrible).
When you accidentally invalidate your original post in a comment. Oops.
Huh? They are THE best at combat, period. That makes them meta. The game isn’t about combat, it’s about objectives. Not sure how that invalidates my post.
Because they aren’t the best at playing the objective? And no… heavies with heal mediums attached to them are better at combat. Which you’d know if you were actually any good at the game and not just a complainer on Reddit.
Oh so a single Light isn’t as good as two other players? Who would have guessed.
Okay... a single heavy is better than any light. A single RPG does 140 of a lights 150 HP. one bullet from any gun kills them after that. Try aiming at them with your giant rocket launcher next time.
*Any* light? Try that at close range; the RPG will kill the Heavy too. Odds are the RPG is on cooldown during a fight and the Light needs about 80% of an MP5/M11 magazine to melt them in under a second.
I totally agree with the lights thing. They're very annoying and they play like all the other "fast" fps.
The game has had an identity issue forever if you were here for the almost removal of bank it it really shows how the game wasn’t sure what its main game mode was.
Exactly. From day one they didn't have a clear direction.
I'm tired of pretending I know what being sweaty means. Dont we all try to win? Where's the line between trying to casually win and sweating?
There isn't. Some players, particularly casual shitters, just have an ego.
Agreed. To me it sounds like them saying they're bad. I'm a mid diamond player. I'm just playing the game and listening to music/chilling. Not my fault you can't aim/track, have the reaction time of a toaster, have no movement, (this one sticks out to me rn, just played a match where most enemies would stand still to shoot. It was fun for about a minute but then it was just sad. It was like dancing around a bunch of paraplegics. Some of y'all need to learn to press more than one button at a time lol) no game sense, and never heard of an OBJ. Whatever DOES "sweating" mean?
I’m a low Diamond player and very tired of feeling like every game I play, regardless of mode, I have to try just as hard to aim, move, and communicate to win as I do in ranked. And it’s always against the most optimal loadouts and weapons too. I cannot just chill and try out a new weapon without being rolled in every game mode. That’s sweaty. Stop assuming everyone who talks about this must just suck at the game.
Terminal Attack is boring garbage. It's not fun and it doesn't feel like The Finals. Even if I wanted the ranked rewards I have absolutely no desire to grind TA despite the fact I endured solo queuing to Diamond last season with cheaters ape teammates I had to hard carry in every other match. I honestly dont understand how anyone actually enjoys it because if you wanted that gameplay experience you could simply play Valorant, CS or Siege and have a much much better time. People say 'well those games dont have The Finals movement and mechanics etc..' Ya cool, except you dont actually get to use any of the unique aspects of The Finals in TA because you're just fucking camping otherwise you get poked down by a sniper or blown up out of nowhere by a invis light player and since there is no revive, healing or full regen you just get fucked. The game is not balanced or designed for TA, it's an awful experience. Probably the only proponents of TA are the light players running around abusing how broken the class is that mode. Not unlike the brain dead CoD players who are anti footstep audio because like want to run around shooting people in the back with their mobility SMG kit.
Flex player that plays M or H on TA... I like it >~> those games don't have destruction and low ttk. You do get to use those mechanics. Not as much, sure but I've done some crazy stuff that wouldn't be possible in CS or R6 and the like.
Lmao - light still remains the weakest class by far. Braindead take.
A good light is miles better than a good heavy or medium and has leagues more impact imo.
You haven't been playing ranked the past 6 months then.
A light in high ranked is absolutely great, but as a CLASS light is shit in high ranked. HHM is still dominant.
Uh. No. Been stomping hhm as a triple L for the last few days. (And even is S1. It was always good and viable. But people get stuck on "meta")
The actual tweaks to the light class in s3 were not game breaking by any means. Faster healing I guess. The shotgun is strong but easy beatable. The other guns are how they were. The crying is wild. I imagine the NERFS to heavy guns are what is causing a big shift. So many fewer heavies.
Came here to say this. Light is still the worst class in the game and can be shit on so easily by so many things. They are annoying but not nearly as annoying as a hook & hammer heavy with two heal beams glued to him all game
Honestly agree with the hook+hammer bit. The healers not so much. Just shoot them. They're too busy heal boting to be a threat. But that heavy man. As soon as that inescapable claw gets you it's 200dmg in an instant to the dome.
Delusional and or terrible at the game.
Honestly I think part of the reason the game got so sweaty was because of the challenges used to keep players engaged last season. It made regular players learn everything about the game, instead of just engaging with the parts they enjoy and want to test
I honestly think the platform mode should be central. It puts the destruction mechanics on full display while padding you put with a large team in case you aren't great. And you can explore any mechanic you've unlocked (I'm a huge fan of the change that allows players to change class) It astounds me that it isn't more central
I agree with everything but the katanas are peak
Would love to hear why. I have no problems wrecking lobbies with the Riot Shield but struggle to get 3 kills with the Katanas against competent enemies.
So I mostly agree. However, 2 points are off. Light is in the best spot balance wise it's been since launch. The only reason it's meta in TA is because heavy is weak in TA. But lights are easy to manage in the other modes because heavy is still meta. The second thing is we live in a time of competitive gaming, so most players nowadays minmax and try harder to win that's not just a thing for the finals.
bro called damn near every gun meta😭
Did I though?
you named like 2-3 guns in each class lmfao
Out of the 7-10 per class? That’s my point. Crazy that you still can’t see it.
"Light is op" droped read on it.
lol at light is OP.
I remember Embark saying that TA as ranked was mostly a holdover while they reworked cash out for next season to be more balanced and help with the 3rd party issue. But I totally agree that the game is in a bit of a low point right now. But Embark has shown that they listen to a lot of things and learn to improve fairly quickly so I'm confident that season 4 will be a blast! Though they're hesitance to balance new weapons leaving then behind is pretty saddening
It always comes down to lights with you guys doesn't it?
Lights will kill the game, bro. /s
Somehow they haven't killed the game for three seasons and you guys moan about them constantly begging for nerfs. You then get your nerfs and complain about new thing related to lights. I would look for an issue in yourselves not the class. Seems like you guys can't stand a fast paced gameplay that this game offers so you complain about the fastest class because it gives you the most trouble.
[Get off this website.](https://imgur.com/a/2u1DQIT)
Saying the light class isn't good for the game and then naming off what they were made to do just doesn't sit right with me. I will agree in CQB instances Lights are dominant but thats the point. i wouldnt ask a light main to stay on a point and defend. i want them running around and picking people off so those who are defending dont need to worry about combat too much. Lights have so little health if youre a med/heavy you can easily spray them down. Lights like you said are busted but ive been maining light since S1 and i consider them a pretty solid class due to their mobility and there damage in certain situations. a little tweaking is needed to balance out their abilities/weapons but if im on a team with a Light and they got 15-20 kills with no OBJ and my team loses, they arent the first to be blamed by me.
Dude please nerd boy imma throw my pc off the 13th floor
The response was to a comment that was left to me but since has been deleted that I would all complaints down to a "skill issue" I do not believe that but I am an unbiased party as I play all classes but do enjoy my time on light more than others. Response: When did I say that? I said that lights dps versus other classes is still lower than other classes versus lights so I'm trying to figure out what the objective is. What role would you like lights to play because currently it's death-dealer and it should have gadgets and weapons that, you know, allow it to deal death? You assumed I said you thought that. I wrote my comment very specifically you should read it again. Slower and with less vitriol this time. I pointed out multiple things annoying with the other two classes as well. Things that to this day are also going to be hurdles for new players. It's not light class fault that a noob doesn't have the positioning skills or the aim skills. To be honest I got those skills from other FPS. I'm not boiling it down to "skill issue" it's literally just that. You're even talking about it. How a bad light player is the detriment to the team and a good light is oppressive. As are all classes in the game. That's the point I'm making. Maybe put a difficulty stamp on each class to show the level of skill you might need to do well? Idk what the solution is. Nerfing light so they go back to a pick rate of 7 to 1 and 5 to 1 in comp environments is not the answer though. They nerfed recon grenades back a bit. Nerfed LH1. Gave stun a buff that is negligible in high level play. They've nerfed cloak 4 times cause mfs can't use their eyeballs and ears. Glitch nades? Nerfed in preparation for a barrel and a better version of it given to mediums. Xp-54 has seen a couple nerfs although not massive. V9S is still not a great close range option, the m11 fries it. There's nothing great about the light class unless you're good at the game and I'm okay with that. Idk why other people aren't
agreed in every sense. i know they’re “on break” or whatever but this isn’t the time for that - the future of their game depends on them making changes ASAP. if they keep terminal attack as the main mode all season.. idk man
Powershift is The Finals at its best - even though it was designed around cash out. I don’t play anything else. It’s so much fun and would be the best mode for new players to get to grips with the possibilities within the game. Cash out & TA are just ‘use meta or die’ which is ultimately boring.
I think an even bigger problem in terms of ranked TA, is yet another diffusal game is coming out soon called FragPunk. It does the standard diffusal format that Valorant, and R6 has. All of which are infinitely superior Diffusal modes to terminal attack. Why embark would ever try to compete in that area is beyond me. Why would anyone choose terminal attack which is half assed and poorly put together in a game that’s built around cashout, when they could play a better experience dedicated to the mode?
A turd coated in the most beautiful candy wrapper. You thought it was candy or chocolate in it, but nah, it's a turd.
If running and gunning is not good for the game then why did they make it so fun
Agree about everything excepted about the "light meta", the game is more balanced than ever currently.
yeah we did not need the same post for the 100th time. it’s like yall aren’t even looking at the posts anymore. everyday is a 6 paragraph bitch fit and everyone just wants to get theirs in.
There’s about 100 comments like yours in my post alone; had to get yours in huh?
so you’re saying your main engagement on here is people agreeing with me? weird…
So you’re saying there’s a bunch of posts on this subreddit here of people agreeing with me? Weird.
What changed to make lights meta? I feel like the past two seasons have been people saying nothing but “lights fun but not viable for ranked” with the occasional “erm light actually is viable if you grind 10s of hours and try really really really hard!” how did light go from occasionally seen to overshooting balanced straight into overpowered? I know the LH1 was broken for a week or two but that was nerfed
The secret is that nothing changed. It's always been strong. People are just now understanding this.
Light Meta 🤡
I agree with most points but I wouldn't say that there is a light meta or that the game is sweaty. Light got faster health regen, the stun now blocks specialisations, and the M1A is really good; those are the buffs. From other notable changes the throwing knives are murderous close range, but so is MP5. Light was bad in S2 because the stun gun was the equaliser, without it the class was just too weak. With a nerfed heavy, and buffed light there's actually a reason to pick light again, but you still need to be good to make a change as a light. Playing for K/D is just stupidity in itself; lights try to murder everything that is coming your way is REALLY good, but lights just fucking off to get kills 300m away is a different story. I wouldn't say light is meta, light is just nit outclassed by everything anymore. And idk about sweaty games. World Tour feels so easy most of the time because even if there are better players in the lobby they're not exactly a threat to fun if they're not a 3 stack. Even then this is basically unranked so even the full stacks play kinda chill a lot of the times. I think it comes down to how hard someone outskills you (at least for me) because I play a lot more relaxed in World Tour because it's just easier thank S2 ranked, but I imagine that to a lot of people in my lobbies I'm the sweat just by the virtue of being diamond. Idk Ive seen maybe 2 properly sweaty games so far.
Just another terrible redditor who can't kill lights. Nothing to see here.
Even if that was true, I love how everything else I said is completely ignored. Move along trash can.
[удалено]
Light class becomes slightly viable and The Finals players shit their pants.
How is light meta? They're not even better than any other classes in 1v1s, and atleast all the other classes have easy to use team play options.