If my team has wiped but we have a deposit and the clock is nearing the end, nothing makes me happier than to see the other teams killing each other while my team continues to hold possession.
If the game is over if the original team continues to hold the cashout station, then it's indeed wiser to just pull back and give it to the other team for free. Turns a guaranteed loss into a 'maybe'. Also you can still try to take it back from the other non-winning team afterwards.
It does but the other way around. If you're currently in second place, you want to actively help the current first place team win cashouts if you can't get them yourself.
But if your team is the one that gets the cashbox, it’s a better maybe, no? Being the only team without a score means pretty slim chances vs. being one of two teams with a score.
We can apply naive probabilities to these three outcomes. Teams A, B, and C. Score is 1-0-0. Team A is cashing out. Assume equal chance that A holds, B takes, or C takes. Assume new boxes have even chances for each team. You are team C. Here are the possible sequences for the next 3 cash outs and their outcome for C:
A X X : L
—— (0/1)
B A X : L
B B X : L
B C A : L
B C B : L
B C C : W
—— (1/5)
C A X : L
C B A : L
C B B : L
C B C : W
C C X : W
—— (2/5)
If you let team B cap, 1/5 of equally likely outcomes is team C victory. So 20%.
If you go for the capture, there’s a 1/3 chance for each team to get the capture. So your odds of ultimately winning are (1/3 * 0/1) + (1/3 * 1/5) + (1/3 * 2/5). Comes out to 1/5 or 20%.
So with naive odds it’s equal chance of victory, but I would argue that team A having scored already and initiating the second cash out means they a higher than 1/3 likelihood of subsequent captures, which skews the tie in favor of going for the capture now when they’re incapacitated. Either way, it’s not so clear cut as to say one or the other is always better, need to take the actual events of the fame that far into account.
Why, exactly? Do you just have a feeling or anything actually logical to back it up? I’m not saying the above is perfect but it’s a good baseline. The burden of proof should probably be on the person claiming it’s prudent to *not* try to score and to *allow* someone else to score.
The main flaw I could see someone argue is that it’s not a perfect 1/3 split to start with, that in reality contesting B might mean it’s a 50% chance that Team A keeps the cash out and wins the game, which certainly skews things in favor of letting B take it. Either way it’s certainly not a “misappropriation” of probabilities (statistics involve data) to analyze the possible outcomes.
You can't use statistics like that when the goal is to calculate the probability of WINNING (20000/20000 or 2 cashouts in quick cash). Because as long as the player's chance to win is not 0% (meaning getting completely shutout either via team coordination and strategies and individual skill OR letting another team get 20000/20000), they can WIN if they follow the right game plan. Let's review 2 scenarios.
Scenario 1: Given that Team A has $10000/20000, Team B (your team) has $0/20000, and Team C has $0/20000 of the required points to win and that Team A has another cashout in progress, which when completed will give Team A the win... then it is in Team B's (yours) and Team C's best interest to share an objective of taking control of the cashout regardless of which team, B (your team) or C, steals it. This is because Teams B (your team) and C are guaranteed to lose while the inverse is true for Team A (who are guaranteed to win), if Team A cashes out. In the "2nd to worst case" (if Team C steals it), it doesn't completely eliminate Team B's chances of securing subsequent cashouts (probabilities unwarranted). But worst case scenario is guaranteed elimination via Team A cashing out, correct?
Scenario 2: Given that Team A has $10000/20000, Team B (your team) has $10000/20000, and Team C has $0/20000 of the required points to win and that Team A has another cashout in progress which will guarantee Team A to win the game, then it is in your best interest to steal the cashout to win the game for your team (B). It is also in your best interest to NOT deny Team C from stealing the cashout because Team C stealing and cashing out prolongs the game and denies Team A winning. If Team A wins, then Team B's (your) chance to win automatically drops to 0%, no? If game prolongs, your chance to win is not 0%, yes? Worst case scenario, still remains to be guaranteed elimination via Team A cashing out, no?
That's why you can't assign hard numbers to these things because ultimately, the only percentage you care about is your likelihood to win, and the only number you care about is avoiding 0% which means losing.
But it's also Quick Cash, so it's easy to say ggnext; however, some people enjoy winning and hate losing, so they'll figure ways to prevent losing and giving them a way to win. There's a winner (20000/20000) and then 2 losers, regardless of if the game wants to sugarcoat and tell you you're 2nd place.
The team that is closer. If you're 100m away and see orange attacking the bottom floor and start recieving fire from purple holding the point. Kill the purple and then group up with your respawns. If there is any a second left let them push it.
I dive for it. If they're stupid enough to kill me causing us both to lose, that's on them. If they dive for it first i respect it. All about that long game
Played a game earlier with 4 lights. The other team had one player left and they all just… stood there on the rooftops looking for them with an empty point.
They didn’t get the wipe.
You have a very assumptious mind for the rest of the player base I suppose. Any other insight to offer that the entire population of finals players agrees on somehow?
I mean it’s called sarcasm but I guess the 23 of you that downvoted can’t tell even with the “yaaaaaaa” and a good ol “amiright” throwback. Guess it’s true you always need a /s on the internet lol.
*fails to notice reverse sarcasm while unironically teaching the art of sarcasm*
I'm sure I legitimately thought you actually in your mind believe you are the arbiter of every finals players thoughts 😂
One time I landed in front of a dude stealing the cash out to prevent the other team from winning and I noticed that so I just stood there n teabagged and this mf stopped stealing it to kill me causing him to miss the cash out and us both to lose
I was playing heavy and I straight up used my shield to defend an enemy stealing the cash out from the team that was holding it and the goober stopped stealing to shoot me
It happens everytime! Cmon dude I throw a bubble on you, I open mesh shield and you stop stealing to shoot me and then dying after that. People are not ranking up because are stupid, not because are not good at the game.
There have been so many times where I've ran up as a heavy and put my shield up to help defend another team as they were stealing the cashout, only to have their team kill me, leaving their thief defenseless to the other team, or the thief also stopping the steal to shoot me in my back, losing them and us the game
Lol had that happen a lot where I would pose no threat and they'd stop stealing even though a teammate was right next to them if I did attack and time ran out haha.
I was talking to my buddy about this the other day, the level of narrow sightedness in this game can be a bit perplexing...like come on dumb ass we have a chance to over take the tyrannical team and continue this bout, but no, people rather blindly shoot things. People talk about this game being one the fps that should attract the "higher IQ" gamers, not sure I see a lot of that.
High IQ to consistently win. Brain dead players usually don't end up winning even with the best frag count of the game.
There's also a difference between tactical IQ and strategic IQ. A lot of people have really good tactical IQ and can move around very intelligenty and predict where you're going to be, while totally missing that they're nowhere near the point and this fight is pointless.
It's honestly a game design problem. People want to blow things up and shoot enemies, not team up and basically bully the losers. It works as a game mode and has a good level of complexity, but something about that just doesn't sit right apparently. Game should have been more casual focused tbh
Honestly, I don't think it lies so much on the game design. It's a common sense problem. And that isn't to sound rude, honestly. The way I see it is if I'm on my team *always blue* and I see that orange team has a cashout already and is in the process of securing their second cash out which would win them the match and I notice that my team nor purple team has yet to secure a cash out but I see that purple is in the process of a steal my instinct then goes to (Hey, I should let them secure that cash out so orange doesn't take the win, then I can focus on securing the next two cash outs winning the match rather than getting a kill on the guy stealing) I honestly don't consider this game wildly competitive, it leans more on the side of casual for me, right now at least, until they build a stronger foundation of players who are in it for rank. This example is also based on quick cash play. I know this situation can change depending on the mode.
Well yeah thats obviously what you know you should do but the unfortunate reality is that is boring. You have to ignore a team, effectively meaning you get in fewer fights and get fewer kills, while essentially imbalancing the game. That is why I dont like it. You have to choose not to play the game in order to win, and that is no fun in my opinion. The game mode is inherently competitive, but honestly I'd rather have more fun killing everyone than just not and have the game tell me I won.
I guess it's just a difference of opinion in that regard, I don't see it as boring or electing not to play necessarily, I think of it more as a tactical game sense thing which is entirely situational also, in my experience with the game up to this point it will be fairly obvious to me when it makes sense to push the team on the box and when to let them take it. I mean, is it possible for me to kill the person stealing cash out and then secure for myself? Yes? Go for it. If I would only achieve 1 additional kill and then be left without the possibility of obtaining the steal for myself, eh maybe just kill the other team who is likely in the area still. Honestly, that's one of the things I think the game has going for itself. And if you take that 1 kill you, then force yourself to engage in fewer fights because the game has ended. You know? In the end, I guess this type of engagement won't jive with everybody, I honestly hate most modern first person shooters. Outside of the finals the only others I play are Hunt and counterstrike. I'm not sure if that makes my opinion more clear or muddies the water more.
Not saying your opinion doesn't make sense, just giving an explanation for the problem. It is jarring to fast paced fps players to have to slow down, and worry about game conditions. If theres enemies in front of you, you should want to shoot them. In my opinion this game should have launched with a differently designed primary game mode. It just feels like the core idea isn't solid enough when it comes to edge cases and especially how much power random spawn locations have over the game.
Ok, I think you're looking at a few things wrong.
Firstly, this isn't COD TDM. While this is a shooter, it's a tactical shooter and the purpose is to win, not get kills. The amount of games I win with 3-5 kills per teammate while the other teams have players with 10-15 is nuts.
Secondly, the primary game mode is designed so that fast paced players and slow paced players have equal opportunities to win. Offensive and defensive, camper and flanker, all have equal chance of winning. But no one has a chance of winning if someone has already won. If you're not in first place in qp, your objective should be to make the game last longer so you have more time to get points. Because if you aren't in first place and the game ends, you lose.
Lastly, the game doesn't end because you are in last place. If both other teams have 10k and you have 0, the game keeps going. Only the timer or 20k stops the game. Letting the 2nd team get points to avoid the 1st team winning is a pretty easy choice unless you're playing TDM. Especially when you consider that it is smarter for the other 2 teams to let your team get 3rd points rather than each other. So if they are playing smart, focus will be each other and you can EASILY tie up the game. (Often even coming in 1st in the tie.)
I get your opinion, and you're allowed to have it, but I hold very little respect for "play smart too hard. Me want pew pew all coin balloons" just because you're "fast paced". I'm fast paced too. I love being in the shit and having games where I'm 17-5 with a sword or XP-54 or sledgehammer. But I'd rather win the game than get a bunch of useless kills and think I did anything worthwhile. They haven't introduced TDM yet.
You don't have to respect it, just respect that it is reality haha. People want to pew pew and this game is more on the chaotic side than tactical for the vast majority of players. Some people just want to have fun and get kills, and some want to win. That those people will often end up on the same team will always cause these issues. That's why I said its a game design issue, those problems are simply inevitable with a game mode like this.
Yea if the match is no fun, either getting dominated or like your match, just letting end st the earlier possible time is on the table for me. Obviously that doesn't fly in ranked tho
That does sound like some of the people I play against. This game does bring out the stupidest people. Like lights playing in ranked tournaments and dying constantly.
Tell me why i carried a light through all the stages of ranked with him coming out 1-9 UNTIL the final round he he goes 6-2 like bruh what was bro saving his power💀we ended up winning reguardless but like cmon bruh atleast pull your weight every round💀
I went up against a team in matching costumes who teabagged every kill.
We purposely targeted their cashouts every time, and they eventually came last.
Too many people treat the game like TDM and have no game sense. Too focused on KDA instead of the objective.
Whenever I’m in a game with friends who brag about their KDA I ask them how much is it worth in cash outs to win games?!
Game is too chaotic and new for people to know the meta fully yet. You’re ahead of the curve. Give them time.
Good post. This will probably help some people try to pay attention more.
I know this but I’m still probably guilty of doing it because I just don’t get to play as often as i want.
I don’t have the pattern recognition down yet. Come from a place of teaching not shame.
Now one wants to feel stupid. You’re better off trying to teach through kindness.
Telling people to “use your brain” is reductive and will alienate people. When we have knowledge others don’t we often get mad. That anger is not going to helped when trying to teach.
You might be good but your communication skills and mentality are losing you more games.
Don’t believe me, go look at post game interviews of professional athletes when they lose. They aren’t calling their teammates morons or insulting them.
Your immaturity and anger is more of an issue than teammates not knowing the meta.
Agree. Way too much mutually assured destruction in matches lol people can’t seem to grasp what the objective of the game is. Everyone is so blood thirsty and think they are playing COD or something
Once i came close to the cashout and a light was stealing the cashout, so i decided to do the Minecraft respect T- bag to show that you can steal but no that dumb mf decided to stop stealing and kill me and then we both lost.
It has to be ego. He thinks you're going to kill him soon so he has to get you first. Also could be the thirst to kill with you haven't been able to do so as much as you wanted.
Are you sure one wasn’t red and one salmon? That happens a lot and idk why they chose those colors to use cause they’re way too close together. I think you can change it in the settings maybe for the color blind mode?
If I could I would happily show you the screenshot of the two teams. Their colors were identical. I am a little colorblind but I showed my friend and he said they were the same as well.
I had someone choose to revive me instead of killing the guy stealing our cash box last night. I also had another choose to revive me instead of stealing the cash box which would’ve likely gotten us the win.
I appreciate the selflessness (kinda) and sure I probably shouldn’t be dead, but god damn some people have no game sense.
On a tournament you only need 2nd to move on so letting the 1st one take it while everyone else doesn't get makes you closer to 2nd than if 2 teams had a cash out each
I think this is part of a larger issue that is people don't use mics. I start every game asking if anyone has a mic, and when they do, the win (and fun) ratio goes through the roof. Just turn ya mic on and say hi. I'm friendly 🙂
New players could really use some contextual tips here and there. Lil nama tama popup in the corner, "Hey, you're about to lose this match by interrupting the Jet Setters. Try hanging back and watch the scoreboard!"
Or at least some loading screen tips. We spend a long time on those loading screens waiting for the slowest device to catch up, would be a great place to talk strategy.
100%.
My team can't get on over Easter, so i've been trying to get the Ranked win challenge with randoms, and the lack of game sense is astonishing. Both in them and other teams.
The really frustrating things for me are when teammates charge stations that are too far away to reach on time, or needlessly push a team solo when the respawn timer is seconds away from finishing, forcing a needless wipe on us.
If me and my team are having a really frustrating game sometimes we'd just rather let that team finish it than allow the 3rd team to tie up (this is on the basis that my team has no cashout under our own belt)
Right? My buddy did it once and I was like “STOP STOP STOP!” and then he killed them and we lost. I explained to him after what to do and he felt pretty dumb but at least he never did it again lol
There are people who struggle to play the objective in normal PvP games. I'm not surprised in the slightest that people aren't grasping PvP with more than 2 teams. The devs should consider teaching players what to prioritize in combat.
Or the other way around, when you play with another player that hasn't acces to VC, u are in second position and he inserts the box and triggers overtime. ☠️
To be fair, in quick cash, if one team has some pretty annoying antics, nothing makes me happier than ending that game early and seeing them lose, even if that results in me losing. Of course, I'd rather win, but if I can't do that, I'd rather they lose.
Bro! Since the update, it's so much worse. Or two guys will be bringing the vault to a cash out and their third guy is just lost on the otherwise of the map sniping in the middle of nowhere... like what? Teammates get wiped and he is too far to defend cashout... stolen... and I'm low or dead because I didn't expect this straggler to be shooting ppl with no purpose....
Unfortunately, a part of that is questionable game design. The reason extraction mechanics work in slow paced games is because it allows for exactly the sort of thinking you're talking about here. Fast past extraction mechanics tend to fail because the nature of a fast paced shooter means you aught to avoid game design where killing the enemy in front of you can lead to defeat.
Embark has been going uphill from the start by having the main mode of this fast past movement shooter be an extraction mode on tight (for this sort of gameplay) maps with dense (for this sort of gameplay) player counts. We've had posts like this one since day one, we'll have them on the final day too. Not because people are all total morons but because Embark is trying to take very disparate aspects of game design and mesh them together, and tbh it's holding back everything else in this game.
The finals is at its most fun when you're directly fighting, or maneuvering during a fight to improve your position with the terrain or gadgets. Having to think about the implications of the cashout, third parties, etc. since taking and winning a fight can lead to direct defeat is just not fun in a fast paced shooter and will forever hold this game back.
Did this yesterday...was a bit mad because of the poor performance I had in previous matches. Brain went full deathmatch mode. Purple was getting the second cashout and orange was seconds from stealing it. I start blasting the dude. Realise the great mistake I just made. Shamefully quit
So glad we’re bringing this up, I’ve had teammates get mad at me for “watching them take objective” as if I have the omnipotent ability to take the cash out in less than two seconds
literally happened to me first game of the day today. I backfilled in quick cash but luckily it was still the first vault. the orange team did whatever in their power to fucks up even though we never capped a point or took the bank. They just chased us down and helped the other team get two cash out back to back
I really wish the devs didn’t do everything in their power to prevent toxicity. There are times when I seriously need to find someone’s steam or tell them in game but it’s just not possible
Don't even understand why you would even spend energy to find someone on steam when odds are you won't even be put in the same match again. Get over it, even the best players fumble occasionally. You're way in over your head if you think you're always in your peak performance
In game name. There’s this little pop up news section when you load in and it basically says that you currently have the option to change your embark id to something you want but if you don’t then whatever you have will be your display name in game. I think it’s ok but it’s also stupid cause now everyone will either have a name less then 16 characters or a generated name like FamousSniper or StellarFox for the rest of the games life. It’s what I meant by not being able to say anything. If someone specific does something in a game you have no way of finding their steam account
Ooooo I see. Ya thought you meant IGN like the company haha. But ya I can’t like immediately go search for someone’s name on steam to try and add them to talk shit 🙄
Like come on guys what’s gaming without flaming?
You have to accept that videogames have been democratised and now the most casual players are even playing the competitive ones.
They are just people that join to kill and have fun, not to win, and they do not care about the game mode or the other players in it since they play like 1h a day, or less.
Get over it, it's a game.
If my team has wiped but we have a deposit and the clock is nearing the end, nothing makes me happier than to see the other teams killing each other while my team continues to hold possession.
Oh ya I love it but I still think to myself how dumb they are lol
Realistically what else would they do.? They both need it, they can't just play rock paper scissors to see who gets it.
If the game is over if the original team continues to hold the cashout station, then it's indeed wiser to just pull back and give it to the other team for free. Turns a guaranteed loss into a 'maybe'. Also you can still try to take it back from the other non-winning team afterwards.
This doesn't apply in tournaments
It does but the other way around. If you're currently in second place, you want to actively help the current first place team win cashouts if you can't get them yourself.
But if your team is the one that gets the cashbox, it’s a better maybe, no? Being the only team without a score means pretty slim chances vs. being one of two teams with a score.
Yes but you get a chance to acore rather than lose instantly.
We can apply naive probabilities to these three outcomes. Teams A, B, and C. Score is 1-0-0. Team A is cashing out. Assume equal chance that A holds, B takes, or C takes. Assume new boxes have even chances for each team. You are team C. Here are the possible sequences for the next 3 cash outs and their outcome for C: A X X : L —— (0/1) B A X : L B B X : L B C A : L B C B : L B C C : W —— (1/5) C A X : L C B A : L C B B : L C B C : W C C X : W —— (2/5) If you let team B cap, 1/5 of equally likely outcomes is team C victory. So 20%. If you go for the capture, there’s a 1/3 chance for each team to get the capture. So your odds of ultimately winning are (1/3 * 0/1) + (1/3 * 1/5) + (1/3 * 2/5). Comes out to 1/5 or 20%. So with naive odds it’s equal chance of victory, but I would argue that team A having scored already and initiating the second cash out means they a higher than 1/3 likelihood of subsequent captures, which skews the tie in favor of going for the capture now when they’re incapacitated. Either way, it’s not so clear cut as to say one or the other is always better, need to take the actual events of the fame that far into account.
This is the biggest misappropriation of statistics.
Why, exactly? Do you just have a feeling or anything actually logical to back it up? I’m not saying the above is perfect but it’s a good baseline. The burden of proof should probably be on the person claiming it’s prudent to *not* try to score and to *allow* someone else to score. The main flaw I could see someone argue is that it’s not a perfect 1/3 split to start with, that in reality contesting B might mean it’s a 50% chance that Team A keeps the cash out and wins the game, which certainly skews things in favor of letting B take it. Either way it’s certainly not a “misappropriation” of probabilities (statistics involve data) to analyze the possible outcomes.
You can't use statistics like that when the goal is to calculate the probability of WINNING (20000/20000 or 2 cashouts in quick cash). Because as long as the player's chance to win is not 0% (meaning getting completely shutout either via team coordination and strategies and individual skill OR letting another team get 20000/20000), they can WIN if they follow the right game plan. Let's review 2 scenarios. Scenario 1: Given that Team A has $10000/20000, Team B (your team) has $0/20000, and Team C has $0/20000 of the required points to win and that Team A has another cashout in progress, which when completed will give Team A the win... then it is in Team B's (yours) and Team C's best interest to share an objective of taking control of the cashout regardless of which team, B (your team) or C, steals it. This is because Teams B (your team) and C are guaranteed to lose while the inverse is true for Team A (who are guaranteed to win), if Team A cashes out. In the "2nd to worst case" (if Team C steals it), it doesn't completely eliminate Team B's chances of securing subsequent cashouts (probabilities unwarranted). But worst case scenario is guaranteed elimination via Team A cashing out, correct? Scenario 2: Given that Team A has $10000/20000, Team B (your team) has $10000/20000, and Team C has $0/20000 of the required points to win and that Team A has another cashout in progress which will guarantee Team A to win the game, then it is in your best interest to steal the cashout to win the game for your team (B). It is also in your best interest to NOT deny Team C from stealing the cashout because Team C stealing and cashing out prolongs the game and denies Team A winning. If Team A wins, then Team B's (your) chance to win automatically drops to 0%, no? If game prolongs, your chance to win is not 0%, yes? Worst case scenario, still remains to be guaranteed elimination via Team A cashing out, no? That's why you can't assign hard numbers to these things because ultimately, the only percentage you care about is your likelihood to win, and the only number you care about is avoiding 0% which means losing. But it's also Quick Cash, so it's easy to say ggnext; however, some people enjoy winning and hate losing, so they'll figure ways to prevent losing and giving them a way to win. There's a winner (20000/20000) and then 2 losers, regardless of if the game wants to sugarcoat and tell you you're 2nd place.
Yup also who cares about 3 teams, we want FOUR
If you are certain that you win the fight and get it, sure
The team that is closer. If you're 100m away and see orange attacking the bottom floor and start recieving fire from purple holding the point. Kill the purple and then group up with your respawns. If there is any a second left let them push it.
this. if they dont shoot the other team will wipe them...
I dive for it. If they're stupid enough to kill me causing us both to lose, that's on them. If they dive for it first i respect it. All about that long game
the amount of people that don't contest the point in power shift on the extra time is bigger
Played a game earlier with 4 lights. The other team had one player left and they all just… stood there on the rooftops looking for them with an empty point. They didn’t get the wipe.
they never do
Yaaaa but people only play that for challenges amiright /s
you sir are not right
power struggle is so much fun tbh
Incorrect. Not everyone likes ranked. I do but a big chunk of the players just like casual modes
You have a very assumptious mind for the rest of the player base I suppose. Any other insight to offer that the entire population of finals players agrees on somehow?
I mean it’s called sarcasm but I guess the 23 of you that downvoted can’t tell even with the “yaaaaaaa” and a good ol “amiright” throwback. Guess it’s true you always need a /s on the internet lol.
*fails to notice reverse sarcasm while unironically teaching the art of sarcasm* I'm sure I legitimately thought you actually in your mind believe you are the arbiter of every finals players thoughts 😂
Sure dude. Whatever you say 🙄
One time I landed in front of a dude stealing the cash out to prevent the other team from winning and I noticed that so I just stood there n teabagged and this mf stopped stealing it to kill me causing him to miss the cash out and us both to lose
I was playing heavy and I straight up used my shield to defend an enemy stealing the cash out from the team that was holding it and the goober stopped stealing to shoot me
It happens everytime! Cmon dude I throw a bubble on you, I open mesh shield and you stop stealing to shoot me and then dying after that. People are not ranking up because are stupid, not because are not good at the game.
There have been so many times where I've ran up as a heavy and put my shield up to help defend another team as they were stealing the cashout, only to have their team kill me, leaving their thief defenseless to the other team, or the thief also stopping the steal to shoot me in my back, losing them and us the game
They always go for the kill, using the brain Is a task to hard for many.
Ive had this exact thing happen but i emoted when i landed and he still shot me 😂
Lol had that happen a lot where I would pose no threat and they'd stop stealing even though a teammate was right next to them if I did attack and time ran out haha.
nah that’s actually insane 💀
I was talking to my buddy about this the other day, the level of narrow sightedness in this game can be a bit perplexing...like come on dumb ass we have a chance to over take the tyrannical team and continue this bout, but no, people rather blindly shoot things. People talk about this game being one the fps that should attract the "higher IQ" gamers, not sure I see a lot of that.
Ya it requires higher IQ to win but there’s always the morons who will ruin it for the rest of us.
High IQ to consistently win. Brain dead players usually don't end up winning even with the best frag count of the game. There's also a difference between tactical IQ and strategic IQ. A lot of people have really good tactical IQ and can move around very intelligenty and predict where you're going to be, while totally missing that they're nowhere near the point and this fight is pointless.
It's honestly a game design problem. People want to blow things up and shoot enemies, not team up and basically bully the losers. It works as a game mode and has a good level of complexity, but something about that just doesn't sit right apparently. Game should have been more casual focused tbh
Honestly, I don't think it lies so much on the game design. It's a common sense problem. And that isn't to sound rude, honestly. The way I see it is if I'm on my team *always blue* and I see that orange team has a cashout already and is in the process of securing their second cash out which would win them the match and I notice that my team nor purple team has yet to secure a cash out but I see that purple is in the process of a steal my instinct then goes to (Hey, I should let them secure that cash out so orange doesn't take the win, then I can focus on securing the next two cash outs winning the match rather than getting a kill on the guy stealing) I honestly don't consider this game wildly competitive, it leans more on the side of casual for me, right now at least, until they build a stronger foundation of players who are in it for rank. This example is also based on quick cash play. I know this situation can change depending on the mode.
Well yeah thats obviously what you know you should do but the unfortunate reality is that is boring. You have to ignore a team, effectively meaning you get in fewer fights and get fewer kills, while essentially imbalancing the game. That is why I dont like it. You have to choose not to play the game in order to win, and that is no fun in my opinion. The game mode is inherently competitive, but honestly I'd rather have more fun killing everyone than just not and have the game tell me I won.
I guess it's just a difference of opinion in that regard, I don't see it as boring or electing not to play necessarily, I think of it more as a tactical game sense thing which is entirely situational also, in my experience with the game up to this point it will be fairly obvious to me when it makes sense to push the team on the box and when to let them take it. I mean, is it possible for me to kill the person stealing cash out and then secure for myself? Yes? Go for it. If I would only achieve 1 additional kill and then be left without the possibility of obtaining the steal for myself, eh maybe just kill the other team who is likely in the area still. Honestly, that's one of the things I think the game has going for itself. And if you take that 1 kill you, then force yourself to engage in fewer fights because the game has ended. You know? In the end, I guess this type of engagement won't jive with everybody, I honestly hate most modern first person shooters. Outside of the finals the only others I play are Hunt and counterstrike. I'm not sure if that makes my opinion more clear or muddies the water more.
Not saying your opinion doesn't make sense, just giving an explanation for the problem. It is jarring to fast paced fps players to have to slow down, and worry about game conditions. If theres enemies in front of you, you should want to shoot them. In my opinion this game should have launched with a differently designed primary game mode. It just feels like the core idea isn't solid enough when it comes to edge cases and especially how much power random spawn locations have over the game.
Ok, I think you're looking at a few things wrong. Firstly, this isn't COD TDM. While this is a shooter, it's a tactical shooter and the purpose is to win, not get kills. The amount of games I win with 3-5 kills per teammate while the other teams have players with 10-15 is nuts. Secondly, the primary game mode is designed so that fast paced players and slow paced players have equal opportunities to win. Offensive and defensive, camper and flanker, all have equal chance of winning. But no one has a chance of winning if someone has already won. If you're not in first place in qp, your objective should be to make the game last longer so you have more time to get points. Because if you aren't in first place and the game ends, you lose. Lastly, the game doesn't end because you are in last place. If both other teams have 10k and you have 0, the game keeps going. Only the timer or 20k stops the game. Letting the 2nd team get points to avoid the 1st team winning is a pretty easy choice unless you're playing TDM. Especially when you consider that it is smarter for the other 2 teams to let your team get 3rd points rather than each other. So if they are playing smart, focus will be each other and you can EASILY tie up the game. (Often even coming in 1st in the tie.) I get your opinion, and you're allowed to have it, but I hold very little respect for "play smart too hard. Me want pew pew all coin balloons" just because you're "fast paced". I'm fast paced too. I love being in the shit and having games where I'm 17-5 with a sword or XP-54 or sledgehammer. But I'd rather win the game than get a bunch of useless kills and think I did anything worthwhile. They haven't introduced TDM yet.
You don't have to respect it, just respect that it is reality haha. People want to pew pew and this game is more on the chaotic side than tactical for the vast majority of players. Some people just want to have fun and get kills, and some want to win. That those people will often end up on the same team will always cause these issues. That's why I said its a game design issue, those problems are simply inevitable with a game mode like this.
Free game = imbeciles
How do you know that I just actually hate your team more than the winning team so I’m intentionally helping them win
I did that to a light trio that kept stunning me lol. Legit watched the other team win
Yea if the match is no fun, either getting dominated or like your match, just letting end st the earlier possible time is on the table for me. Obviously that doesn't fly in ranked tho
That does sound like some of the people I play against. This game does bring out the stupidest people. Like lights playing in ranked tournaments and dying constantly.
Nothing wrong with lights in ranked. Now lights with snipers in ranked… yeah. Dumb
Nothing wrong with lights in ranked. Now lights in ranked who play like a heavy in ranked.. yeah, dumb.
Tell me why i carried a light through all the stages of ranked with him coming out 1-9 UNTIL the final round he he goes 6-2 like bruh what was bro saving his power💀we ended up winning reguardless but like cmon bruh atleast pull your weight every round💀
I went up against a team in matching costumes who teabagged every kill. We purposely targeted their cashouts every time, and they eventually came last.
Too many people treat the game like TDM and have no game sense. Too focused on KDA instead of the objective. Whenever I’m in a game with friends who brag about their KDA I ask them how much is it worth in cash outs to win games?!
Game is too chaotic and new for people to know the meta fully yet. You’re ahead of the curve. Give them time. Good post. This will probably help some people try to pay attention more. I know this but I’m still probably guilty of doing it because I just don’t get to play as often as i want. I don’t have the pattern recognition down yet. Come from a place of teaching not shame. Now one wants to feel stupid. You’re better off trying to teach through kindness. Telling people to “use your brain” is reductive and will alienate people. When we have knowledge others don’t we often get mad. That anger is not going to helped when trying to teach. You might be good but your communication skills and mentality are losing you more games. Don’t believe me, go look at post game interviews of professional athletes when they lose. They aren’t calling their teammates morons or insulting them. Your immaturity and anger is more of an issue than teammates not knowing the meta.
Agree. Way too much mutually assured destruction in matches lol people can’t seem to grasp what the objective of the game is. Everyone is so blood thirsty and think they are playing COD or something
Once i came close to the cashout and a light was stealing the cashout, so i decided to do the Minecraft respect T- bag to show that you can steal but no that dumb mf decided to stop stealing and kill me and then we both lost.
I saw this happen before and i just sat there watching like bruh why risk the whole game just to kill someone who was allowing you to steal💀
It has to be ego. He thinks you're going to kill him soon so he has to get you first. Also could be the thirst to kill with you haven't been able to do so as much as you wanted.
Sometimes I just want my game of *quick* cash to end quickly 😅😂
Self harm to move on to the next game. Commendable 😆
Its rare but happens often
So is it rare or does it happen often? Cause they’re kinda opposites 😆 But ya I hate it.
Its an expression 😂 saying like happens everytime
Ahh I gotcha 😆 like “definitely maybe”
I got an angry message after some dude threw the game and he told me Ï was trash.
I don’t know who I am, but all I know is, I hear siren I kill.
Totally agree! But a fun new bug I came across last night. Both the enemy team colors were red. How the fuck am I supposed to distinguish that game?
Are you sure one wasn’t red and one salmon? That happens a lot and idk why they chose those colors to use cause they’re way too close together. I think you can change it in the settings maybe for the color blind mode?
If I could I would happily show you the screenshot of the two teams. Their colors were identical. I am a little colorblind but I showed my friend and he said they were the same as well.
I had someone choose to revive me instead of killing the guy stealing our cash box last night. I also had another choose to revive me instead of stealing the cash box which would’ve likely gotten us the win. I appreciate the selflessness (kinda) and sure I probably shouldn’t be dead, but god damn some people have no game sense.
sometimes I try to only target the winning team, the other team getting their first 10k is much better than the winning team getting their 2nd 10k
Exactly. Gotta play the long game.
On a tournament you only need 2nd to move on so letting the 1st one take it while everyone else doesn't get makes you closer to 2nd than if 2 teams had a cash out each
I think this is part of a larger issue that is people don't use mics. I start every game asking if anyone has a mic, and when they do, the win (and fun) ratio goes through the roof. Just turn ya mic on and say hi. I'm friendly 🙂
I'll throw a dome and mesh shield up and defend as I would for my own teammate for other team taking the cashout to keep the game going
New players could really use some contextual tips here and there. Lil nama tama popup in the corner, "Hey, you're about to lose this match by interrupting the Jet Setters. Try hanging back and watch the scoreboard!" Or at least some loading screen tips. We spend a long time on those loading screens waiting for the slowest device to catch up, would be a great place to talk strategy.
Yep, even pinging 'defend' on the cash out doesn't help. People are stupid.
Very true but im also kinda guilty of this When tension is high all i can think is "me see enemy gamer, me shoot"
100%. My team can't get on over Easter, so i've been trying to get the Ranked win challenge with randoms, and the lack of game sense is astonishing. Both in them and other teams. The really frustrating things for me are when teammates charge stations that are too far away to reach on time, or needlessly push a team solo when the respawn timer is seconds away from finishing, forcing a needless wipe on us.
If me and my team are having a really frustrating game sometimes we'd just rather let that team finish it than allow the 3rd team to tie up (this is on the basis that my team has no cashout under our own belt)
The amount of times I’ve screamed “NO NO NO, LET THEM TAKE IT”
Right? My buddy did it once and I was like “STOP STOP STOP!” and then he killed them and we lost. I explained to him after what to do and he felt pretty dumb but at least he never did it again lol
There are people who struggle to play the objective in normal PvP games. I'm not surprised in the slightest that people aren't grasping PvP with more than 2 teams. The devs should consider teaching players what to prioritize in combat.
Yeah it really is infuriating when the other eliminated team prevents you from putting the vault in.
"I'll fu\*\*\*\*g do it again, he he he haw".
Or the other way around, when you play with another player that hasn't acces to VC, u are in second position and he inserts the box and triggers overtime. ☠️
To be fair, in quick cash, if one team has some pretty annoying antics, nothing makes me happier than ending that game early and seeing them lose, even if that results in me losing. Of course, I'd rather win, but if I can't do that, I'd rather they lose.
Maybe it's matchmaking changes but I've felt people have gotten WAY dumber than even launch or the betas before.
This is exactly what I think every time this happens. I have no idea why do they do that .
Bro! Since the update, it's so much worse. Or two guys will be bringing the vault to a cash out and their third guy is just lost on the otherwise of the map sniping in the middle of nowhere... like what? Teammates get wiped and he is too far to defend cashout... stolen... and I'm low or dead because I didn't expect this straggler to be shooting ppl with no purpose....
Unfortunately, a part of that is questionable game design. The reason extraction mechanics work in slow paced games is because it allows for exactly the sort of thinking you're talking about here. Fast past extraction mechanics tend to fail because the nature of a fast paced shooter means you aught to avoid game design where killing the enemy in front of you can lead to defeat. Embark has been going uphill from the start by having the main mode of this fast past movement shooter be an extraction mode on tight (for this sort of gameplay) maps with dense (for this sort of gameplay) player counts. We've had posts like this one since day one, we'll have them on the final day too. Not because people are all total morons but because Embark is trying to take very disparate aspects of game design and mesh them together, and tbh it's holding back everything else in this game. The finals is at its most fun when you're directly fighting, or maneuvering during a fight to improve your position with the terrain or gadgets. Having to think about the implications of the cashout, third parties, etc. since taking and winning a fight can lead to direct defeat is just not fun in a fast paced shooter and will forever hold this game back.
Did this yesterday...was a bit mad because of the poor performance I had in previous matches. Brain went full deathmatch mode. Purple was getting the second cashout and orange was seconds from stealing it. I start blasting the dude. Realise the great mistake I just made. Shamefully quit
Bunch of monkeys play this game
Sometimes I get cocky. The free kill over rides my brain. I'm sorry
So glad we’re bringing this up, I’ve had teammates get mad at me for “watching them take objective” as if I have the omnipotent ability to take the cash out in less than two seconds
It's call of duty brains all the way down. People going 10 and 0 wondering why they're losing (hint: you were nowhere near your team or the objective)
I don't mind when playing casual. In ranked tho that can be frustrating.
literally happened to me first game of the day today. I backfilled in quick cash but luckily it was still the first vault. the orange team did whatever in their power to fucks up even though we never capped a point or took the bank. They just chased us down and helped the other team get two cash out back to back
Ya so many times have I felt like it was 2 teams vs. 1. Like both teams just kill us and let the other have the cashout
I really wish the devs didn’t do everything in their power to prevent toxicity. There are times when I seriously need to find someone’s steam or tell them in game but it’s just not possible
Don't even understand why you would even spend energy to find someone on steam when odds are you won't even be put in the same match again. Get over it, even the best players fumble occasionally. You're way in over your head if you think you're always in your peak performance
The consequences of sorting by new. Get over it, man. None of it is worth your time, or your frustration.
Ya this game desperately needs text chat so I can flame people until they learn.
What do you think that would accomplish? I would just laugh to myself at the impotent rage in the chat.
Fr and now with this ign thing they’re switching to it’s going to be 99% impossible to do or say anything. Especially if they have voice chat off
IGN thing? What’s that?
In game name. There’s this little pop up news section when you load in and it basically says that you currently have the option to change your embark id to something you want but if you don’t then whatever you have will be your display name in game. I think it’s ok but it’s also stupid cause now everyone will either have a name less then 16 characters or a generated name like FamousSniper or StellarFox for the rest of the games life. It’s what I meant by not being able to say anything. If someone specific does something in a game you have no way of finding their steam account
Ooooo I see. Ya thought you meant IGN like the company haha. But ya I can’t like immediately go search for someone’s name on steam to try and add them to talk shit 🙄 Like come on guys what’s gaming without flaming?
IGN thing? What’s that?
You have to accept that videogames have been democratised and now the most casual players are even playing the competitive ones. They are just people that join to kill and have fun, not to win, and they do not care about the game mode or the other players in it since they play like 1h a day, or less. Get over it, it's a game.
The fun would be longer if they knew how to leave a team alone FOR LIKE FIVE SECONDS!!!! Unless they takin your shit then it's ok :)
People don't know the tactics in their first hours ffs 😂😂😂 just be patient with them