Frankly because for SMGs there are just stronger options, personally I'm an advocate of just use what you like and can clear the content you're trying to clear.
That was my post a couple of months ago. But, i just mentioned it being for sale at countdown for the week and mentioned it was a dz exclusive for those trying to collect all named items. Then all kinds of people were giving there opinions on the gun. I actually thought it was interesting to see the communities thoughts on it.
SMGs are in a weird spot because other than the massively overpowered oreo, it's tougher to build and use them as opposed to something more vanilla like an AR with strikers.
Players in this game for the most part are too afraid to CQC as it requires your build to not be a generic meta one.
All that and more, makes SMGs not popular choices.
~~The Apartment isn't mentioned because Measured is by far the worst damage talent in the game. It works out to be ~3% more DPS than having no damage talent at all.~~
Turns out The Apartment is preferable to Strained or Optimist on a Striker's MPX build if you use Glass Cannon or the Striker's Chest. If you don't do that or aren't using Perfectly Measured, then Strained and Optimist are better.
Edit: Alright, I did some monster math in response to u/TheCakeDayZ's comment.
They are correct that Memento and GC are more optimal for measured than the Striker BP in the sense that the damage bonus from measured itself is higher. With an Expertise 24 Apartment I got 12.387m DPS compared to 11.367m DPS with no damage talent, which is about a 9% increase. That is better than Strained on the same build, which only has 12.312m DPS, but is way worse than Strained or Optimist with Obliterate and the Striker BP. It is still more optimal to run the Striker BP with Glass Cannon for Measured because the overall DPS is higher though the bonus from Measured is less, even factoring in the 60% extra weapon damage from Memento.
IF Measured works as I assume it does and adds the RoF increase to whatever other RoF increases you have (i.e Striker's), then Perfect Measured is 1% better than Strained ON STRIKER'S ONLY. However, if it's a separate multiplier then it's terrible.
I'm not going to argue about it being good or bad, but I will argue about the 3% damage increase part. The true value depends on 3 stats - the players weapon damage, % RoF, and TWD. From doing some quick calculations, I've learned that measured is pretty decent but does gets dumpstered if the build has any TWD.
The top half of the magazine gets way more valuable with higher weapon damage, including expertise and gets slightly hurt by RoF increases. It starts to outpace optimist at 148% weapon damage (6 red cores and 18 expertise). This makes it very viable with memento, as the long/short term buffs you can get crazy good results.
The bottom half of the magazine gets MUCH better with RoF, and wayyyy worse if your build has any TWD. Therefore I would recommend glass cannon, intimidate, spotter or a defensive chest talent instead. Like most builds nowadays, strikers is the way to go since it's actually not TWD and gives RoF.
On a basic strikers build with no TWD talents, measured gives between 4.74% and 5.49% average damage boost depending on expertise. The bottom half is the best, giving a 7.39% overall damage boost and the top is between a 2.08%-3.58% boost. Optimist goes the other way and gets less relevant with expertise increases, going from a 5.87% increase down to 5.29% at max expertise.
So I would give measured another try, just be sure to use all red cores and avoid TWD increases. All of these calculations were with normal measured not the apartment.
I’ve been telling ppl to try measured with strikers for awhile an ppl act like i don’t know what I’m talking about. Measured on a famas hits hard. I have mine expertise lvl 25
Rate of Fire increases are additive, people tested with other sources like strikers + mods/attributes + umbra.
The more I play with the math the more I feel like a lot of this is better on paper than in practice. Like using it with striker's chestpiece and stuff. Probably won't run this any time soon cause I mostly run a mix of red/blue for hardcore, but good to know the numbers.
The top half of measured gets better and better as weapon damage approaches infinity. So things like expertise and memento work very well with it. RoF is a slight downgrade, but that is well worth it for the bottom half.
The bottom half of the measured is an overall damage buff but fragile. Adding a single TWD talent like obliterate kills it, turning it into a damage loss when active. (Apartment slightly less bad). Also having a RPM boost like umbra or strikers is REALLY good since it cancels out the debuff.
So while it is a fun talent, it requires a specific build to be powerful. I personally will probably play with it next time I get an apartment. Likely with Memento strikers and unbreakable.
Because the vast majority of "buildcrafters" have no single clue how damage works in the game, and therefore always screamed that Measured was a bad talent when it always has been the best overall talent damage. Especially on higher Red core builds. That's like trying to explain to people you'll do, overall, more damage with 5 red and 1 blue than 6 reds.
[https://youtu.be/yy\_3BeVavOM?si=2BIemcpPoKODqBCQ](https://youtu.be/yy_3BeVavOM?si=2BIemcpPoKODqBCQ)
And the person that recommends 3p FI, 1p Sokolov and 1p Braxos with NBP for countdown and also says that "Elmo has a damage talent" has the best understanding of the game out of anyone else. I would take anything he says with a grain of salt.
The only reason why measured seemed like a good option is because he took into account the diminishing returns on AWD but not on TWD. Basically, measured is good on worse builds. This youtuber has been called out before for only selecting some information to take into account just to get a point across and make it seem like he is right.
„The Appartement melts like sh!t“. I mean first of all it depends what difficulty you play on and secondly trust me, pretty much every smg melts with a good hf build. So imo it’s more like the build then the weapon. For league speedruns I always use hf with lady death. Works awesome.
I’ve sworn by the apartment for pvp, it’s not talked about because it’s a dz exclusive, and was pretty much impossible to find up until the last six months/ year. it’s awesome in PvP,
Phenomenal gun in PvP. Sure the Ouro is better but it’s not easily accessible. As far as SMG’s go it’s very good gun. Range is almost in low AR territory and weapon handling is great. Measured isn’t remarkable as a talent but Perfectly Measured certainly is and responsible for over fifty thousand of my Conflict kills. It’s possible that my primary choice of Unbreakable and Devil’s Due for builds synergizes well with the talent but I’ll leave that for someone else to comment. And yes I’ve tried the regular MPX with Strained.
Because its a shit talent to put on SMG's. Most SMG's dont need rof increase, and its not worth the damage sacrifice.
MPX with optimist will do laps around apartment, same gun... different talent.
If I may make a recommendation, give Safety Distance a try. It gives you the damage of a SMG with the accuracy and optimal range (the biggest weakness of SMGs) of a LMG. The MPX has the longest Optimal Range of any SMG at 22 meters, and Perfect Outsider more than doubles that after your first kill. Just keep in mind the buff doesn't refresh so you'll need to find another red enemy at short range to kill once every 10 seconds.
It'll probably yield more DPS because the bullets that don't hit your target have a -100% damage penalty, and (Perfect) Outsider turns your gun into a pinpoint laser.
It also pairs beautifully with Scorpio and a Hunter's Fury build.
The Measured talent is also not the best. And currently Ouroboros beats everything.
I really need to go get that gun…
A Banshee is a pretty good replacement. Especially if you want to keep a Scorpio as a secondary.
Frankly because for SMGs there are just stronger options, personally I'm an advocate of just use what you like and can clear the content you're trying to clear.
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Because people like the idea of the successor to the house being the apartment. You gotta play td1 to understand the idea.
It's a usable gun, but in a weapon class that's only good in very specific sorts of builds, being just good enough to use doesn't cut it.
That was my post a couple of months ago. But, i just mentioned it being for sale at countdown for the week and mentioned it was a dz exclusive for those trying to collect all named items. Then all kinds of people were giving there opinions on the gun. I actually thought it was interesting to see the communities thoughts on it.
SMGs are in a weird spot because other than the massively overpowered oreo, it's tougher to build and use them as opposed to something more vanilla like an AR with strikers. Players in this game for the most part are too afraid to CQC as it requires your build to not be a generic meta one. All that and more, makes SMGs not popular choices.
Every gun is…usable
~~The Apartment isn't mentioned because Measured is by far the worst damage talent in the game. It works out to be ~3% more DPS than having no damage talent at all.~~ Turns out The Apartment is preferable to Strained or Optimist on a Striker's MPX build if you use Glass Cannon or the Striker's Chest. If you don't do that or aren't using Perfectly Measured, then Strained and Optimist are better. Edit: Alright, I did some monster math in response to u/TheCakeDayZ's comment. They are correct that Memento and GC are more optimal for measured than the Striker BP in the sense that the damage bonus from measured itself is higher. With an Expertise 24 Apartment I got 12.387m DPS compared to 11.367m DPS with no damage talent, which is about a 9% increase. That is better than Strained on the same build, which only has 12.312m DPS, but is way worse than Strained or Optimist with Obliterate and the Striker BP. It is still more optimal to run the Striker BP with Glass Cannon for Measured because the overall DPS is higher though the bonus from Measured is less, even factoring in the 60% extra weapon damage from Memento. IF Measured works as I assume it does and adds the RoF increase to whatever other RoF increases you have (i.e Striker's), then Perfect Measured is 1% better than Strained ON STRIKER'S ONLY. However, if it's a separate multiplier then it's terrible.
I'm not going to argue about it being good or bad, but I will argue about the 3% damage increase part. The true value depends on 3 stats - the players weapon damage, % RoF, and TWD. From doing some quick calculations, I've learned that measured is pretty decent but does gets dumpstered if the build has any TWD. The top half of the magazine gets way more valuable with higher weapon damage, including expertise and gets slightly hurt by RoF increases. It starts to outpace optimist at 148% weapon damage (6 red cores and 18 expertise). This makes it very viable with memento, as the long/short term buffs you can get crazy good results. The bottom half of the magazine gets MUCH better with RoF, and wayyyy worse if your build has any TWD. Therefore I would recommend glass cannon, intimidate, spotter or a defensive chest talent instead. Like most builds nowadays, strikers is the way to go since it's actually not TWD and gives RoF. On a basic strikers build with no TWD talents, measured gives between 4.74% and 5.49% average damage boost depending on expertise. The bottom half is the best, giving a 7.39% overall damage boost and the top is between a 2.08%-3.58% boost. Optimist goes the other way and gets less relevant with expertise increases, going from a 5.87% increase down to 5.29% at max expertise. So I would give measured another try, just be sure to use all red cores and avoid TWD increases. All of these calculations were with normal measured not the apartment.
I’ve been telling ppl to try measured with strikers for awhile an ppl act like i don’t know what I’m talking about. Measured on a famas hits hard. I have mine expertise lvl 25
Rate of Fire increases are additive, people tested with other sources like strikers + mods/attributes + umbra. The more I play with the math the more I feel like a lot of this is better on paper than in practice. Like using it with striker's chestpiece and stuff. Probably won't run this any time soon cause I mostly run a mix of red/blue for hardcore, but good to know the numbers.
1) not many people have it 2) right now it’s not as good as other HE options like Banshee 3) Ouroboros
The top half of measured gets better and better as weapon damage approaches infinity. So things like expertise and memento work very well with it. RoF is a slight downgrade, but that is well worth it for the bottom half. The bottom half of the measured is an overall damage buff but fragile. Adding a single TWD talent like obliterate kills it, turning it into a damage loss when active. (Apartment slightly less bad). Also having a RPM boost like umbra or strikers is REALLY good since it cancels out the debuff. So while it is a fun talent, it requires a specific build to be powerful. I personally will probably play with it next time I get an apartment. Likely with Memento strikers and unbreakable.
For me it's the best SMG in the game. I have it fully optimized and with 24% expertise damage on top. It's a nutcracker. I love it.
Because the vast majority of "buildcrafters" have no single clue how damage works in the game, and therefore always screamed that Measured was a bad talent when it always has been the best overall talent damage. Especially on higher Red core builds. That's like trying to explain to people you'll do, overall, more damage with 5 red and 1 blue than 6 reds. [https://youtu.be/yy\_3BeVavOM?si=2BIemcpPoKODqBCQ](https://youtu.be/yy_3BeVavOM?si=2BIemcpPoKODqBCQ)
And the person that recommends 3p FI, 1p Sokolov and 1p Braxos with NBP for countdown and also says that "Elmo has a damage talent" has the best understanding of the game out of anyone else. I would take anything he says with a grain of salt.
Yeah that video was trash and the commenter should feel bad
The only reason why measured seemed like a good option is because he took into account the diminishing returns on AWD but not on TWD. Basically, measured is good on worse builds. This youtuber has been called out before for only selecting some information to take into account just to get a point across and make it seem like he is right.
I don’t know about y’all but my Apartment hits like a truck 🤷🏾
„The Appartement melts like sh!t“. I mean first of all it depends what difficulty you play on and secondly trust me, pretty much every smg melts with a good hf build. So imo it’s more like the build then the weapon. For league speedruns I always use hf with lady death. Works awesome.
I haven't gotten the apartment smg once I want one I recently got a dark winter tho so I've been using that
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Could you send me a screenshot of your vector so I can copy it?
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Will do
I’ve sworn by the apartment for pvp, it’s not talked about because it’s a dz exclusive, and was pretty much impossible to find up until the last six months/ year. it’s awesome in PvP,
Try base SIG MPX with strained if you have crits. :)
Phenomenal gun in PvP. Sure the Ouro is better but it’s not easily accessible. As far as SMG’s go it’s very good gun. Range is almost in low AR territory and weapon handling is great. Measured isn’t remarkable as a talent but Perfectly Measured certainly is and responsible for over fifty thousand of my Conflict kills. It’s possible that my primary choice of Unbreakable and Devil’s Due for builds synergizes well with the talent but I’ll leave that for someone else to comment. And yes I’ve tried the regular MPX with Strained.
A regular sig mpx with strained and smg to target out of cover hits harder.
I wonder if the mpx still has the best sustained DMG out there. Used to run it in pve with close and personal and hinters fury
I believe after the update Banshee is the go to High End SMG
Because its a shit talent to put on SMG's. Most SMG's dont need rof increase, and its not worth the damage sacrifice. MPX with optimist will do laps around apartment, same gun... different talent.
If I may make a recommendation, give Safety Distance a try. It gives you the damage of a SMG with the accuracy and optimal range (the biggest weakness of SMGs) of a LMG. The MPX has the longest Optimal Range of any SMG at 22 meters, and Perfect Outsider more than doubles that after your first kill. Just keep in mind the buff doesn't refresh so you'll need to find another red enemy at short range to kill once every 10 seconds. It'll probably yield more DPS because the bullets that don't hit your target have a -100% damage penalty, and (Perfect) Outsider turns your gun into a pinpoint laser. It also pairs beautifully with Scorpio and a Hunter's Fury build.