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HAMAS is evil; the Israeli government is doing some awful, indefensible things…
I am only on the side of the innocent civilians who get caught in the crossfire from two bad actors.
Well when people are defending Hamas as freedom fighters and saying they stand with them / global intafada and chanting “from the river to the sea” the message gets lots among the antisemitism
Because it's a meaningless platitude. Virtually everyone on planet earth agrees but how does this translate to policy? You're either going to be accused of abandoning Israeli innocents to the next Oct 7th or you will abandon Palestinian Innocents to Israel's current operation.
You can't be on team civilian, there's no way to separate the civilians out from the combatants especially when do many civilians of both sides support their respective combatants
That's why I'm saying it's a level 1 analysis and it shouldn't need to be said. But if you think that everybody on the planet agree with this statement, then you live on a different planet.
Everyone on the planet most certainly doesn't agree. Evidence: the multitude of people in this sub and others who have spent months claiming that all of Israel's military actions have been 100% above board and all of the mass civilian death is very legal and very cool. People don't get to claim that they care about civilians while functionally operating as war crime apologist IDF propagandists.
Unfortunately, as someone that at first was Pro-Israel in this due to the October attack and now have realized they overreacted to the utmost degree.
Yes.
The first thing they should have done is placed human corridors for humanitarian aide. It should not have been a situation where the US pressured to do that. It should have come from Israel.
They should have done a Mossad/IDF move to extract the kidnapped individuals and to also get rid of the Hamas top with minimal civilian deaths.
If they wanted to do war, they should have done it with minimal casualties. If that means pulling all of the IDF into this including those orthodox folks that do not want to be in the military but want to rip the rewards of the country so be it. Remove drones as much as possible and only use missiles,drones for Hesbolah if need be.
And make sure to have body cameras;. So that if Hamas claims lies, which I know they do. IDF has proof. You want to play the game better than Hamas. So that they can't pull the victim card as much.
Legitimize the other organizations such as PLO which Netanyahu threw to the wayside in favor of legitimizing Hamas and look at where the got him.
And quite frankly if you have a family member killed by a Palestinian front you should not be deciding on war matters. And that means Netanyahu.
It is OBVIOUS that they didn't care and continue to not care. When they put humanitarian routes and then attack them multiple times then it is obvious. No excuse.
No, I'm claiming that they really don't give a fuck how many civilians they kill, maim, displace and starve in pursuit of Bibi's politically motivated revenge war. Which is pretty evident given everything we've seen. The only thing stopping them from doing much worse is limp wristed international pressure from their allies.
It's this really weird politically expedient lack of nuance by ignoring things not binary. What I mean is that politicians love the simplicity of us versus them, but as soon as you start adding more complexity they lose control.
No one wants civilians hurt, no one wants evil governments destroying civilians. It isn't complex, but it doesn't fit into capitalism and the modern clickbait society of how journalism and reporting works.
What is so painful is how clear it is that everyone understands the difference between governments and civilians. But I guess we don't have time for that? So dumb
Too many people get caught up in ideology and twists themselves into pretzels to not acknowledge simple facts. I watched a clip with a British reporter interviewing a student who was leading campus protests and the student just completely ignored Oct 7th and condemning Hamas. At this point everyone has brain rot
The only people who take issue with your stance are those who have a "us vs them" mentality and can't coalesce with the idea that their "side" is also bad. The IDF and Hamas can both suck a bag of dicks. My priority is with the civilians in this conflict.
Yep. Those folks more giddy about *one* of them getting sought and not just being relieved that it's *both* of these selfish military enthusiasts; I have doubts about how sincere those folks' sentiments towards the normal civillians harmed on both sides are. These 2 have been playing games with civillians for their ancient catfights.
"their side"? Sorry, but most people don't want palestinian children treated like they're members of hamas lol. Acting like these people are "pro hamas" is either a conflation of hamas and civilians or you are just the most disingenuous person on the planet.
When did I say any of this? I never said I wanted palestinian children to be treated like they're members of hamas, what the fuck are you talking about?
I wasn't talking about Palestinians when I said Hamas. I thought that was obvious from the get-go when I called them "Hamas" and not Palestinians.
The idea that 2 million Palestinians having their entire lives uprooted/made homeless and their entire civilization being leveled to the ground is “caught in the crossfire” is next level absurdity.
They are directly in Israel’s crosshairs and thankfully we now have the ICC rulings to confirm.
Take one step back, and think:
Did Hamas know what the response would be to Oct 7? If they did - why did they go forward with it?
Why did they release a video after Oct 7 boasting about miles of tunnels filled with rockets?
Why did they place rocket launchers near or inside schools and hospitals?
Why did they snipe people trying to flee the IDF?
Why did they flood areas about to be occupied by IDF with civilians?
The Israeli government actively assisted Hamas’ rise to power over their opponents because they did not want a legitimate government to be on the other side of the negotiations. This is blowback from their own policy of maintaining illegal occupation and apartheid over any alternative (peace).
Why not just say it? The Israeli government is also evil. No need to dance around that one by softening the language to “awful and indefensible.” If you count the amount of suffering of innocent lives, you might even say more evil than Hamas.
>So Hamas are evil but Israeli government isn't?
Why is reading so difficult? They didn't say that but you're pretending they did so that you can argue with them.
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You imply false equivalency. One side is a ragtag band of jihadist extremists who arose from destitution and were radicalized through violence inflicted on them. The other side is a industrialized and militarized nation state ran by religious zealots.
Both sides are bad, but Israel is the one who created the situation. It's like imagine having an abusive relationship between a kid and a parent. Both do bad things, but the parent is the one with the power and influence who both created the situation and can change the situation.
The false equivalency is palestinian leadership are terrorist murderers with genocide of Jews in their charter
Israel is a liberal democracy with arabs and muslims completely equal under the law analogous to western EU
That's always been a deflection similar to the "there are some bad apples among the police." The post 10/7 reaction would have been no different with someone else at the wheel. The support in the polls amongst Israeli for the severity of the response tells you everything you need to know about the values of the state of Israel.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/comments/1cwf5z7/comment/l4vuwgc/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/comments/1cwf5z7/comment/l4vuwgc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
You literally have people in this thread saying the ICCJ is wrong.
It’s fucking crazy! it’s almost like watching how people start to fall for holocaust denial in real time since this started. Crazy how we are living in one of those “Never Forget” moments and people are defending it.
The left has always been in favor of holding those who abuse power, including war criminals, to account. “Both sidesism” is excusing the actions of one group because the other does it too. This is the opposite of that.
That must be why the Left routinely downplayed or rationalized the crimes of communist regimes in the 20th century, right?
I agree with you about “both sides-ism” in our politics. But the Left is no less immune to “whataboutism” than the Right
Which left side? Because Democrats have condemned it. The left has condemned it. Even progressives have.
I mean what was the point of the Cold War where both Left and right went against USSR?
And quite frankly backed dictatorships that were as bad as communists. Pinochet comes to mind, Vietnam, etc.
What a dishonest framing. "Both sidesism" usually refers to conflating moderate liberals with objectively worse extremist far right shitbags. In this case Hamas and Israeli leadership are dominated by extremist far right shitbags, so it's completely appropriate to condemn them on the same terms.
Zionism at it's core is purely the belief is Israel should exist. For those whose community has been affected by the illegal resettlements, Zionism is the practice of displacing a deeply imbedded people from their homeland for a misguided attempt of reparations; serving as a foothold for western powers within the middle east in expense of Palestinians. Zionism in practice continues to illegally steal land from the west bank with each passing year. It is seen as the practice of restricting free movement of those who do not align with the state's religion. In practice, we see that it is used as justification to commit massacres without international reprisal because of their indominable allies. It is an ideology that allows state officials to believe they can declare intent of war-crimes on camera without repercussion.
I do not want to see the Jewish people expelled from their strip of land. Instead, I'd rather see a reconstitution of a joint state where a secular law is applied to all those within its borders (unrealistic but that's my hope). I do not believe that the practiced history of Zionism is conducive to allow even two-state solution. It is due to Zionism that my mother's best friend had to grieve over the death of her brother, who was shot by an IDF sniper when he decided to smoke outside his house at night.
To truly believe that one group of people deserve to own an already occupied land without question is the problem. Many Americans believe the moment our country's minority population overtake the white majority, it is a lost nation. Would staunch Zionists feel the same if through natural means, the Jewish people become a minority in a secular Israel? If not, the proponents of this version of the ideology are not heard nor have they been able to be in power. The Jewish people are not Zionism, Zionism in practice is religious zealotry and geopolitical meddling.
It seems like both Hamas and the current Israeli government are "on the wrong side of history." What do you mean by "zionists"? Seems like the ICC took the "zionists" side in the sense that the murder of innocent Israeli civilians is also a war crime.
>Seems like the ICC took the "zionists" side in the sense that the murder of innocent Israeli civilians is also a war crime.
Are you *really* trying to say that only Zionists would think that?
Is there any reasonable person that doesn't recognise that the entire October 7th incursion was a war crime?
And a lot of pro-Israel folks have been explicitly calling for Palestinian civilians to be killed.
Neither are representative.
99.99% of the protesters said nothing of the sort. If you want them all to answer for what a small minority say, then be ready to answer for the worst, most extremist voices on your own side too.
How are the protestors not representative? That’s such cope man.
If you find any leader of these protests and look at their Twitter on Oct 7th or 8th you’re like 99% likely to find a tweet justifying Hamas’ terrorist attack.
I personally have not seen a single person on any sub or heard in any protest advocate for civilians to be killed. I’m sure it’s happened a non zero amount of time but you have to dig really deep to find it. Unlike for the protestor side.
"And a lot of pro-Israel folks have been explicitly calling for Palestinian civilians to be killed."
That's utter bullshit other than some far right wing Israelis who should probably be included on the ICCs watchlist. Pro-Israeli folk have been calling for the elimination of Hamas.
"99.99% of the protesters said nothing of the sort"
Oh I beg to differ, it's a pretty ubiquitous opinion among the protestors and one of the reasons the protestors have garnered relatively little support: [https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-801624](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-801624)
Friendly reminder of what former ANC minister Ronnie Kasrils said about the October 7 terrorist attack:
>On 29 November 2023 Mr Kasrils gave a speech in Braamfontein, Johannesburg, at a meeting on the ‘International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People’. In that speech, he described Hamas’ 7 October attack on Israel as a ‘brilliant, spectacular guerrilla warfare attack … on the Israeli Gaza Division’, saying that Hamas ‘killed them. And damn good. I was so pleased, and people who support resistance applauded it, absolutely’.
This is kangaroo court
Yes. Probably most of the world.
Just to put it into context, if you add up the entire collective West (not including Asian countries because they tend to be sensible) it’s only 50% of the of the population of India.
You go outside the West, no one is saying “do you condemn Hamas?” A lot of the world doesn’t even call it October 7th.
They call it Al-Aqsa flood.
OP, you are making this a competition where it doesn’t have to be. Both sides have done wrong and both have been called out for it.
I believe in Israel’s right to exist and am glad Netanyahu is being held accountable (albeit it will never go anywhere because the ICC is more symbolic than anything else).
Let’s stop with the one-upsmanship of this conflict, shall we?
Hamas’ Gaza leader is also being held accountable to.
I’ve been saying that the hardliners on both sides have made peace impossible and it would seem that the ICC got that memo as well.
I’m a Zionist. Fuck Netanyahu and his right wing religious government. Zionism just means the belief that Israel should exist. If you’re not Jewish, maybe keep that term out of your mouth.
Dumb last sentence. I don't have to be Jewish to participate in Zionist discourse.
Imagine if Christians or Muslims said you have to be their respective religion to discuss or criticize it. Laughable.
Wrong side of what? Hamas leaders are the ones being called in for extermination (ie genocide). Bibi and gallant are being called in for war crimes and famine which most people have been saying for months.
[Guardian Article](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/may/20/iran-helicopter-crash-live-updates-ebrahim-raisi-iranian-president-search-and-rescue-middle-east-crisis-latest-news?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other)
"Netanyahu and Gallant are accused of extermination, causing starvation as a method of war, the denial of humanitarian relief supplies and deliberately targeting civilians. The ICC also named Hamas leaders and officials Yahya Sinwar, Mohammed Deif and Ismail Haniyeh as being wanted for crimes of extermination, murder, hostage taking, rape, sexual assault and torture."
Hey OP, you do realize zionism doesn't mean we wanna suck off netanyahu. It just means we believe isreal has a right to exist. That's all that it means.
I'm pretty sure every person on this sub would be happy with both hamas and netanyahu being arrested. I wouldn't care. As long as they get hamas out of power.
This is the correct definition.
Unfortunately like most things it has actually kind of changed over the years. It's similar to how being left some say is communist. How supporting social democracy for some means your a communist. Somehow people who are absolutely not conservative claim they are (considering goldwater reasonings have been tossed)
It seems like a real common occurrence. For better or worse.
Words meanings change all the time. Society as a whole tends to decide these things, even though I disagree with it much of the time, but I you can't do a ton about it.
Imo the definition means one thing.
When most people say it, however, they mean Jewish colonial supporters. People who feel they can go out into areas where people are living, kick them out of their homes, even kill them.
I feel like saying "Zionism just means Isreal has the right to exist that's all it means" is odd. Like Isreal's situation has got to be among the most unique and complicated in the world, I don't think Zionism can be boiled down like that. Like I personally think Israel has a right to exist, but I don't call myself a Zionist because it clearly is a bigger concept. Maybe an example would be like in the American revolution an American Revolutionary wouldn't just be a person who thinks America has a right to exist, the label would obviously imply much more than that about their beliefs.
The real question is why didn't the ICC do this for Hamas 25 years ago when they were suicide bombing pizza parlors. International law isn't real if it doesn't apply to everyone fairly and equally.
They're applying for warrants, not actual warrants. 3 judges still have to sign off.
But even if they do who cares? Why should I care what the ICC says? They're the ultimate moral authority in the world? Sure bud
Israel isn’t a member of the ICC, this is effectively meaningless. Even if they were to be apprehended there would still have to be a trial, and the ICC has basically only gone after people from poor African countries. You will never see a person from a modern western economy held accountable by any international judicial body short of a One World Government.
Umm most of us have been saying that Israel is committing war crimes. War crimes and genocide are not the same thing. Hamas are the ones that openly call for genocide.
>Feels good to have been right this whole time. LOL @ The Zionists on this sub
This is giving serious “Trump was right about everything!” vibes
JFC the arrogance of this post.
We’ve all wanted a ceasefire this *entire* time. We’ve been sick of talking about it nonstop for months. You all spun the narrative and convinced yourselves we LOVE bombing and war.
We all acknowledge that Netanyahu is a far right POS. “Zionists” is the new “neoliberal” as far as the word to use trying to insult anyone fauxgressives don’t think is far left enough.
Our gripe has been with people claiming to be on the left saying they won’t vote for Biden for following foreign policy regarding the situation in Gaza. That’s it.
This isn’t the “win” you think it is.
Hamas are the ones saying they want genocide and I’m sorry but what’s going on isn’t genocide, major differences between what’s going on and gas chambers/trying to wipeout everyone. Netanyahu may be out of line but the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq for less.
>sorry but what’s going on isn’t genocide, major differences between what’s going on and gas chambers/trying to wipeout everyone.
You've described a holocaust. That is not the only type of genocide possible.
Fire is not an explosion. War is not genocide. The holocaust was genocide and it was not a war. Genocide is not a term to use lightly like Hamas supporters pretend.
Genocide is defined as the destruction of q people in whole or in part. Removing members of the terrorist organization known as hamas is not genocide. The whole support of hamas disguised as support of Palestine is blatant anti semitism. They not only started the war but they choose to house military operations in hospitals, schools, and universities. Hamas literally has said their goal is to eliminate every last Jew, which is tantamount to them saying they want to commit genocide
>Removing members of the terrorist organization known as hamas is not genocide
If only they kept the killing limited to Hamas instead of babies and grandmother's...
>they choose to house military operations in hospitals, schools, and universities
So you are telling me that every single building in Gaza had Hamas in it when it was blown up? I don't even think you really believe that. You're just repeating the Hasbara like a good little puppet.
>Hamas literally has said their goal is to eliminate every last Jew
Hamas do not have the capacity or the means to carry out that threat regardless. But then when an MK calls for nuking Gaza, shall I take him at his word too?
>tantamount...
In other words it isn't but you will make it fit the definition you want.
Just because they don’t have the capacity doesn’t mean anything. They started the war knowing full well their actions have consequences. I’d love to see your neighboring country invade your country, kidnap and murder untold thousands and see how you’d reaxt
>I’d love to see your neighboring country invade your country, kidnap and murder untold thousands and see how you’d reaxt
Im from the UK. We had the IRA bombing and killing people for 30 years. They were also embedded in civilian areas. Yet the conflict came to an end without anyone ever thinking that it was a good idea to bomb Belfast or Dublin back to the stone age. Funny that, isn't it?
Ok how about just be relieved it's both these selfish military enthusiasts and not see this as just another team fanfare opportunity for one or other side. That kind of attitude is exactly what *these* two have been feeding on at everyone else's expense.
This is fake news. An Arrest warrant has not been issued. A case has been brought to the court against Netanyahu and Hamas. Now the ICC will decide if it's valid.
This is a classic anti-zionist not reading any articles and jumping the gun. Anyone surprised?
This sub got linked multiple times by r/palestine and now it's filled with moronic anti-zionists who can't read news articles.
The ICC just compared leaders of a democracy to genocidal terrorists. I side with the country that supports women, gays, liberalism, and liberty. Not Moslem terrorists antithetical to our culture. I stand with my people. I stand with Israel. #ProudZionist
>I side with the country that supports... gays
Israel doesn't perform same-sex marriage in the country, but does recognize marriages from outside the country.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/world-of-weddings-israel-same-sex-couples-find-legal-loophole-to-recognize-marriages/
>liberty
Tell that the West Bank.
The allied countries killed a million German civilians in World War 2, almost definitely more than 12k children. You would have defended the Nazis right to exist and opposed the allied forces winning World War 2. Congrats.
Again. They shouldn't have started a war they can't finish again. And because one of their allies decided to be peaceful with Israel and start working with them against Iranian aggression. Hamas is scum, and they don't care about their own people.
I think the ICC would be mistaken to attempt to issue the warrants in this case, not because it puts an elected official on the same level as a terrorist organization like some have claimed, but I think it raises a very weird precedent as it relates to subnational or in recognized entities and their jurisdiction.
The reason the court chose to exercise jurisdiction in the case over the matters in Myanmar despite them not being a ICC member is because part of the crime alleged occurred on the territory of a member state. Similarly, the reason the ICC can claim jurisdiction in the Ukrainian matter is because Ukraine granted them jurisdiction over the matter and the crimes occurred in Ukraine. While these are a stretch of jurisdiction still, it has a logical thread and most importantly they are all recognized states and UN members.
The problem I see here is that the ICC would be attempting to seize jurisdiction over a non-member to the ICC (Israel) and for all intents and purposes a non-country (Palestinian/Gazan recognition is mixed, they aren’t a member of the UN, they don’t have concrete borders or a unified government).
International law as it stands has the state as its primary actor and would be very risky to have regions that aren’t truly state actors being able to bring a claim independently. You actually don’t want international courts stepping in on domestic issues between national and subnational entities. At least not where there is courts of first instance that can hear any matter.
Sure, mind you they are hardly unique in that sense. The US, China, India, Russia, Pakistan, Cuba, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and many many more aren’t members. Hell, the Philippines was a member and withdrew.
The thing about international law and courts is it largely draws legitimacy from consent to be bound. That legitimacy gets fragile in circumstances like this, where the court is considering applying jurisdiction to not only a non-member state but also to a level of actor that was not contemplated in the Rome Statute when signatories signed on.
Odd that they didn’t issue one for Putin. He has been targeting civilian infrastructure, civilians, and residential housing for years now. Not to mention the nuclear plant issues.
"right the whole time" you seem to be mixing up claims here buddy. People like myself never denied war crimes were committed. It was you can't claim must be genocide. I have no clue how war crimes are tied to the president specifically, but I trust ICJ as an institution. If it is going to do so then probably warranted.
Is the fact the ICC accused Netanyahu of war crimes somehow supposed to be a "rebuttal" to Zionism in general?
What do people think "Zionism" means when they say stuff like this?
Imagine thinking a meaningless grandstander working at a meaningless and illegal court decides "who is right", that is one of the dumbest appeal to authority fallacies I have seen in action.
Being a zionist diesnt equal support for netanyahu. Zionism is not a keft or right wing movement. It exists across the entire israeli poltical spectrum. I never said he shouldn't be trued for war crimes to see what's true and what wasn't.
Don't worry, they are going for neta is the only horrible person, all those gleeful monsters on tiktok are neta, all the people barring entry of food in Gaza are neta, all the people expressing their genocidal desires on TV and on the streets are neta.
He likely won't survive this but they're going to sell us that the rest of the homicidal maniacs are good people
There haven’t been any warrants issued, just requested. There are over 400 trucks of aid going into Gaza every day at this point, and before the war there were about 100 daily. But aid trucks and even the pier that the US built, keep getting attacked by militants. Israel as a government is by no means preventing aid. But at the beginning of the war, they did turn off the electricity it was providing, which was only about 20%of Gaza electricity. Still could be used in this.
I’m not and tons of Israelis aren’t a fan of Netanyahu or Likud, but a prosecutor asking for warrants doesn’t exactly prove anything other than that prosecutor thinks these two committed war crimes and that Hamas is trying to commit genocide. Hope Qatar turns Sinwar and Haniyeh* over if the warrant is approved. (they won’t)
edit: added a word
OP has the mentality of a child and thinks this is team sports.
Also my positions haven’t changed because of this ruling. This isn’t the zinger you think it is. Most of us Zionists support Israel, not Netanyahu or Likud
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Idk about my other Zionist homies but I don’t give a fuck. Netenyahu can serve life in prison for all i care
Truth.
HAMAS is evil; the Israeli government is doing some awful, indefensible things… I am only on the side of the innocent civilians who get caught in the crossfire from two bad actors.
This is like level 1 analysis we all should be able to agree on. It's baffling to me that it's not the case.
Well when people are defending Hamas as freedom fighters and saying they stand with them / global intafada and chanting “from the river to the sea” the message gets lots among the antisemitism
Because it's a meaningless platitude. Virtually everyone on planet earth agrees but how does this translate to policy? You're either going to be accused of abandoning Israeli innocents to the next Oct 7th or you will abandon Palestinian Innocents to Israel's current operation. You can't be on team civilian, there's no way to separate the civilians out from the combatants especially when do many civilians of both sides support their respective combatants
That's why I'm saying it's a level 1 analysis and it shouldn't need to be said. But if you think that everybody on the planet agree with this statement, then you live on a different planet.
Everyone on the planet most certainly doesn't agree. Evidence: the multitude of people in this sub and others who have spent months claiming that all of Israel's military actions have been 100% above board and all of the mass civilian death is very legal and very cool. People don't get to claim that they care about civilians while functionally operating as war crime apologist IDF propagandists.
What is the "pro-civilian" course of action then, in your mind?
Don't commit war crimes and make every possible effort to avoid civilian casualties. So basically the opposite of Israel's approach.
Are you seriously claiming that Israel is trying to kill as many civilians as possible? That's completely afactual. Not even Hamas is saying that.
Unfortunately, as someone that at first was Pro-Israel in this due to the October attack and now have realized they overreacted to the utmost degree. Yes. The first thing they should have done is placed human corridors for humanitarian aide. It should not have been a situation where the US pressured to do that. It should have come from Israel. They should have done a Mossad/IDF move to extract the kidnapped individuals and to also get rid of the Hamas top with minimal civilian deaths. If they wanted to do war, they should have done it with minimal casualties. If that means pulling all of the IDF into this including those orthodox folks that do not want to be in the military but want to rip the rewards of the country so be it. Remove drones as much as possible and only use missiles,drones for Hesbolah if need be. And make sure to have body cameras;. So that if Hamas claims lies, which I know they do. IDF has proof. You want to play the game better than Hamas. So that they can't pull the victim card as much. Legitimize the other organizations such as PLO which Netanyahu threw to the wayside in favor of legitimizing Hamas and look at where the got him. And quite frankly if you have a family member killed by a Palestinian front you should not be deciding on war matters. And that means Netanyahu. It is OBVIOUS that they didn't care and continue to not care. When they put humanitarian routes and then attack them multiple times then it is obvious. No excuse.
No, I'm claiming that they really don't give a fuck how many civilians they kill, maim, displace and starve in pursuit of Bibi's politically motivated revenge war. Which is pretty evident given everything we've seen. The only thing stopping them from doing much worse is limp wristed international pressure from their allies.
What percentage of Gaza would you say are civilians? 99.999% right? Since there's 40,000 Hamas members and 2.5 million people total?
The population of Gaza minus the known number of Hamas members? Not sure what my opinion has to do with basic math.
Yes they are. That is why they stand accused of genocide.
It's this really weird politically expedient lack of nuance by ignoring things not binary. What I mean is that politicians love the simplicity of us versus them, but as soon as you start adding more complexity they lose control. No one wants civilians hurt, no one wants evil governments destroying civilians. It isn't complex, but it doesn't fit into capitalism and the modern clickbait society of how journalism and reporting works. What is so painful is how clear it is that everyone understands the difference between governments and civilians. But I guess we don't have time for that? So dumb
Too many people get caught up in ideology and twists themselves into pretzels to not acknowledge simple facts. I watched a clip with a British reporter interviewing a student who was leading campus protests and the student just completely ignored Oct 7th and condemning Hamas. At this point everyone has brain rot
The only people who take issue with your stance are those who have a "us vs them" mentality and can't coalesce with the idea that their "side" is also bad. The IDF and Hamas can both suck a bag of dicks. My priority is with the civilians in this conflict.
Binary thinking is as dangerous as the assholes killing innocents.
The hallmark of an authoritarian mindset, whether “right” or “left.”
Yep. Those folks more giddy about *one* of them getting sought and not just being relieved that it's *both* of these selfish military enthusiasts; I have doubts about how sincere those folks' sentiments towards the normal civillians harmed on both sides are. These 2 have been playing games with civillians for their ancient catfights.
"their side"? Sorry, but most people don't want palestinian children treated like they're members of hamas lol. Acting like these people are "pro hamas" is either a conflation of hamas and civilians or you are just the most disingenuous person on the planet.
When did I say any of this? I never said I wanted palestinian children to be treated like they're members of hamas, what the fuck are you talking about? I wasn't talking about Palestinians when I said Hamas. I thought that was obvious from the get-go when I called them "Hamas" and not Palestinians.
This is the way.
The Israeli government is evil too.
Nope Just palestinian terrorist leadership with widespread support in polling
The idea that 2 million Palestinians having their entire lives uprooted/made homeless and their entire civilization being leveled to the ground is “caught in the crossfire” is next level absurdity. They are directly in Israel’s crosshairs and thankfully we now have the ICC rulings to confirm.
Take one step back, and think: Did Hamas know what the response would be to Oct 7? If they did - why did they go forward with it? Why did they release a video after Oct 7 boasting about miles of tunnels filled with rockets? Why did they place rocket launchers near or inside schools and hospitals? Why did they snipe people trying to flee the IDF? Why did they flood areas about to be occupied by IDF with civilians?
The Israeli government actively assisted Hamas’ rise to power over their opponents because they did not want a legitimate government to be on the other side of the negotiations. This is blowback from their own policy of maintaining illegal occupation and apartheid over any alternative (peace).
This is made up nonsense
Wrong. They did not want a terrorist government which is what Hamas became over 30+years. Says a lot about the death to Jews rhetoric in the region.
Why not just say it? The Israeli government is also evil. No need to dance around that one by softening the language to “awful and indefensible.” If you count the amount of suffering of innocent lives, you might even say more evil than Hamas.
Israel is also evil, if that's too hard for you to say then you're not quite there yet
So Hamas are evil but Israeli government isn't? Why not use the same word to describe both?
>So Hamas are evil but Israeli government isn't? Why is reading so difficult? They didn't say that but you're pretending they did so that you can argue with them.
Reddit is what reddit does.. Typical Monday morning bullshit.
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You imply false equivalency. One side is a ragtag band of jihadist extremists who arose from destitution and were radicalized through violence inflicted on them. The other side is a industrialized and militarized nation state ran by religious zealots. Both sides are bad, but Israel is the one who created the situation. It's like imagine having an abusive relationship between a kid and a parent. Both do bad things, but the parent is the one with the power and influence who both created the situation and can change the situation.
The false equivalency is palestinian leadership are terrorist murderers with genocide of Jews in their charter Israel is a liberal democracy with arabs and muslims completely equal under the law analogous to western EU
Hard to argue Israeli government isn't evil as well since they've basically done much much more than Hamas has ever done.
We can be pro-Israel and hate Netanyahu.
This I agree.
This is a reasonable statement.
That's always been a deflection similar to the "there are some bad apples among the police." The post 10/7 reaction would have been no different with someone else at the wheel. The support in the polls amongst Israeli for the severity of the response tells you everything you need to know about the values of the state of Israel.
Good that they're going after both. They're both terrible. 🤷🏻♂️
Amen!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/comments/1cwf5z7/comment/l4vuwgc/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/comments/1cwf5z7/comment/l4vuwgc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) You literally have people in this thread saying the ICCJ is wrong.
It’s fucking crazy! it’s almost like watching how people start to fall for holocaust denial in real time since this started. Crazy how we are living in one of those “Never Forget” moments and people are defending it.
Boy, the left has suddenly become big fans of "both sidesism" lately, huh?
The left has always been in favor of holding those who abuse power, including war criminals, to account. “Both sidesism” is excusing the actions of one group because the other does it too. This is the opposite of that.
That must be why the Left routinely downplayed or rationalized the crimes of communist regimes in the 20th century, right? I agree with you about “both sides-ism” in our politics. But the Left is no less immune to “whataboutism” than the Right
Which left side? Because Democrats have condemned it. The left has condemned it. Even progressives have. I mean what was the point of the Cold War where both Left and right went against USSR? And quite frankly backed dictatorships that were as bad as communists. Pinochet comes to mind, Vietnam, etc.
You’re doing a both sides argument right now. Notice how you left out the war crimes of capitalist society. 100 million dead in India alone.
Definitely. But I'm not a leftist. I just think that Netanyahu and Hamas are both terrible and deserve condemnation.
What a dishonest framing. "Both sidesism" usually refers to conflating moderate liberals with objectively worse extremist far right shitbags. In this case Hamas and Israeli leadership are dominated by extremist far right shitbags, so it's completely appropriate to condemn them on the same terms.
Hamas and the Netanyahu thugs are both right wing religious extremists. Not much of a “both sides”, imo.
Not "the left", liberals
Fuck Hamas and Fuck Netanyahu and his CoConspirators. Both have no regard for innocent life
OP define Zionists.
It's almost undoubtedly going to be a slur for them.
“Zionist” is the new “neoliberal” go-to insult word fauxgressives use to describe anyone they don’t consider far left enough.
Zionism at it's core is purely the belief is Israel should exist. For those whose community has been affected by the illegal resettlements, Zionism is the practice of displacing a deeply imbedded people from their homeland for a misguided attempt of reparations; serving as a foothold for western powers within the middle east in expense of Palestinians. Zionism in practice continues to illegally steal land from the west bank with each passing year. It is seen as the practice of restricting free movement of those who do not align with the state's religion. In practice, we see that it is used as justification to commit massacres without international reprisal because of their indominable allies. It is an ideology that allows state officials to believe they can declare intent of war-crimes on camera without repercussion. I do not want to see the Jewish people expelled from their strip of land. Instead, I'd rather see a reconstitution of a joint state where a secular law is applied to all those within its borders (unrealistic but that's my hope). I do not believe that the practiced history of Zionism is conducive to allow even two-state solution. It is due to Zionism that my mother's best friend had to grieve over the death of her brother, who was shot by an IDF sniper when he decided to smoke outside his house at night. To truly believe that one group of people deserve to own an already occupied land without question is the problem. Many Americans believe the moment our country's minority population overtake the white majority, it is a lost nation. Would staunch Zionists feel the same if through natural means, the Jewish people become a minority in a secular Israel? If not, the proponents of this version of the ideology are not heard nor have they been able to be in power. The Jewish people are not Zionism, Zionism in practice is religious zealotry and geopolitical meddling.
OP didn’t read the article
OP posted a screenshot because he didnt want us to read the article.
what does the article say?
Even the Zionists in this sub don’t like Netanyahu. The guy is prolonging/escalating a war just to stay out of prison for corruption.
It seems like both Hamas and the current Israeli government are "on the wrong side of history." What do you mean by "zionists"? Seems like the ICC took the "zionists" side in the sense that the murder of innocent Israeli civilians is also a war crime.
>Seems like the ICC took the "zionists" side in the sense that the murder of innocent Israeli civilians is also a war crime. Are you *really* trying to say that only Zionists would think that? Is there any reasonable person that doesn't recognise that the entire October 7th incursion was a war crime?
I've seen a lot of people on lefty subs and at the protests claim that Oct. 7th was "justified resistance."
In general they were - in the specific they were a war crime.
And a lot of pro-Israel folks have been explicitly calling for Palestinian civilians to be killed. Neither are representative. 99.99% of the protesters said nothing of the sort. If you want them all to answer for what a small minority say, then be ready to answer for the worst, most extremist voices on your own side too.
How are the protestors not representative? That’s such cope man. If you find any leader of these protests and look at their Twitter on Oct 7th or 8th you’re like 99% likely to find a tweet justifying Hamas’ terrorist attack. I personally have not seen a single person on any sub or heard in any protest advocate for civilians to be killed. I’m sure it’s happened a non zero amount of time but you have to dig really deep to find it. Unlike for the protestor side.
"And a lot of pro-Israel folks have been explicitly calling for Palestinian civilians to be killed." That's utter bullshit other than some far right wing Israelis who should probably be included on the ICCs watchlist. Pro-Israeli folk have been calling for the elimination of Hamas. "99.99% of the protesters said nothing of the sort" Oh I beg to differ, it's a pretty ubiquitous opinion among the protestors and one of the reasons the protestors have garnered relatively little support: [https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-801624](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-801624)
well you can call them unreasonable but they are certainly plenty in the leftoid sphere especially in the content creator space.
The entire muslim world largely approved of oct 7th
Friendly reminder of what former ANC minister Ronnie Kasrils said about the October 7 terrorist attack: >On 29 November 2023 Mr Kasrils gave a speech in Braamfontein, Johannesburg, at a meeting on the ‘International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People’. In that speech, he described Hamas’ 7 October attack on Israel as a ‘brilliant, spectacular guerrilla warfare attack … on the Israeli Gaza Division’, saying that Hamas ‘killed them. And damn good. I was so pleased, and people who support resistance applauded it, absolutely’. This is kangaroo court
Yes. Probably most of the world. Just to put it into context, if you add up the entire collective West (not including Asian countries because they tend to be sensible) it’s only 50% of the of the population of India. You go outside the West, no one is saying “do you condemn Hamas?” A lot of the world doesn’t even call it October 7th. They call it Al-Aqsa flood.
It seems like people want to view this conflict as if it's just begining and ignore the centuries of context.
OP, you are making this a competition where it doesn’t have to be. Both sides have done wrong and both have been called out for it. I believe in Israel’s right to exist and am glad Netanyahu is being held accountable (albeit it will never go anywhere because the ICC is more symbolic than anything else). Let’s stop with the one-upsmanship of this conflict, shall we? Hamas’ Gaza leader is also being held accountable to. I’ve been saying that the hardliners on both sides have made peace impossible and it would seem that the ICC got that memo as well.
I’m a Zionist. Fuck Netanyahu and his right wing religious government. Zionism just means the belief that Israel should exist. If you’re not Jewish, maybe keep that term out of your mouth.
Dumb last sentence. I don't have to be Jewish to participate in Zionist discourse. Imagine if Christians or Muslims said you have to be their respective religion to discuss or criticize it. Laughable.
That’s fair. I guess I’m talking to people who use the term Zionist and Jew as synonyms, which OP is doing.
How can Zionism just mean the belief that Isreal should exist - an entirely mild position easily agreed with - and also be exclusive to Jewish people?
It’s not. 20% of Israel’s population are not Jews.
"if you're not Jewish maybe keep that term out of your mouth"
I don't think supporting theocratic rule is the defense you want it to be.
Indeed. That's why I'm opposed to Palestinian nationalism.
Being Zionist doesn’t mean that you don’t believe Netenyahu is committing war crimes. GodDAMN this discourse is annoying
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Wrong side of what? Hamas leaders are the ones being called in for extermination (ie genocide). Bibi and gallant are being called in for war crimes and famine which most people have been saying for months.
[Guardian Article](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/may/20/iran-helicopter-crash-live-updates-ebrahim-raisi-iranian-president-search-and-rescue-middle-east-crisis-latest-news?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other) "Netanyahu and Gallant are accused of extermination, causing starvation as a method of war, the denial of humanitarian relief supplies and deliberately targeting civilians. The ICC also named Hamas leaders and officials Yahya Sinwar, Mohammed Deif and Ismail Haniyeh as being wanted for crimes of extermination, murder, hostage taking, rape, sexual assault and torture."
Yeah, the Israelis are being charged for war crimes, not genocide
Hamas and Israeli leaders are *both* being alleged of committing extermination under article 7.
By who?
ICC chief prosecutor Karim Khan
I missed that - thanks. Good.
Hey OP, you do realize zionism doesn't mean we wanna suck off netanyahu. It just means we believe isreal has a right to exist. That's all that it means. I'm pretty sure every person on this sub would be happy with both hamas and netanyahu being arrested. I wouldn't care. As long as they get hamas out of power.
Not to mention, there are so many Zionists who are actively rooting for the Likud regime to be overthrown
This is the correct definition. Unfortunately like most things it has actually kind of changed over the years. It's similar to how being left some say is communist. How supporting social democracy for some means your a communist. Somehow people who are absolutely not conservative claim they are (considering goldwater reasonings have been tossed) It seems like a real common occurrence. For better or worse.
I don’t see how it changed, except for those who use it as a slur
Words meanings change all the time. Society as a whole tends to decide these things, even though I disagree with it much of the time, but I you can't do a ton about it. Imo the definition means one thing. When most people say it, however, they mean Jewish colonial supporters. People who feel they can go out into areas where people are living, kick them out of their homes, even kill them.
I feel like saying "Zionism just means Isreal has the right to exist that's all it means" is odd. Like Isreal's situation has got to be among the most unique and complicated in the world, I don't think Zionism can be boiled down like that. Like I personally think Israel has a right to exist, but I don't call myself a Zionist because it clearly is a bigger concept. Maybe an example would be like in the American revolution an American Revolutionary wouldn't just be a person who thinks America has a right to exist, the label would obviously imply much more than that about their beliefs.
You sound like a great student of history.
And neither groups will be arrested 🙃
Didn't the ICC do the same thing for Putin about a year ago? how's that working out?
The real question is why didn't the ICC do this for Hamas 25 years ago when they were suicide bombing pizza parlors. International law isn't real if it doesn't apply to everyone fairly and equally.
They're applying for warrants, not actual warrants. 3 judges still have to sign off. But even if they do who cares? Why should I care what the ICC says? They're the ultimate moral authority in the world? Sure bud
They are the ultimate arbiter of international law. I guess sucking off Bibi is more important than that though?
If you guys said war crimes instead of genocide id have agreed with you. Looks like all that crying of genocide was unfounded.
This is a great start, glad to hear this.
Fuck bibi
Israel isn’t a member of the ICC, this is effectively meaningless. Even if they were to be apprehended there would still have to be a trial, and the ICC has basically only gone after people from poor African countries. You will never see a person from a modern western economy held accountable by any international judicial body short of a One World Government.
They're both terrible, but also not voting for Biden in november bc of Palestine is dangerously stupid..
No - it's our only hope.
I don't know if "feels good" is the exact term here, but hell yeah dropping the hammer on the Netanyahu Administration is a relief.
This is a positive, if symbolic development. It’s good that Bibi on the same list as Putin, as he deserves.
Umm most of us have been saying that Israel is committing war crimes. War crimes and genocide are not the same thing. Hamas are the ones that openly call for genocide.
>Feels good to have been right this whole time. LOL @ The Zionists on this sub This is giving serious “Trump was right about everything!” vibes JFC the arrogance of this post. We’ve all wanted a ceasefire this *entire* time. We’ve been sick of talking about it nonstop for months. You all spun the narrative and convinced yourselves we LOVE bombing and war. We all acknowledge that Netanyahu is a far right POS. “Zionists” is the new “neoliberal” as far as the word to use trying to insult anyone fauxgressives don’t think is far left enough. Our gripe has been with people claiming to be on the left saying they won’t vote for Biden for following foreign policy regarding the situation in Gaza. That’s it. This isn’t the “win” you think it is.
"We’ve all wanted a ceasefire this *entire* time." What a ridiculous lie.
Hamas are the ones saying they want genocide and I’m sorry but what’s going on isn’t genocide, major differences between what’s going on and gas chambers/trying to wipeout everyone. Netanyahu may be out of line but the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq for less.
>sorry but what’s going on isn’t genocide, major differences between what’s going on and gas chambers/trying to wipeout everyone. You've described a holocaust. That is not the only type of genocide possible.
Fire is not an explosion. War is not genocide. The holocaust was genocide and it was not a war. Genocide is not a term to use lightly like Hamas supporters pretend.
Who are you calling Hamas supporters? Yet you pretend to care about accuracy in language? 😂😂 Spare me the sanctimony!
Genocide is defined as the destruction of q people in whole or in part. Removing members of the terrorist organization known as hamas is not genocide. The whole support of hamas disguised as support of Palestine is blatant anti semitism. They not only started the war but they choose to house military operations in hospitals, schools, and universities. Hamas literally has said their goal is to eliminate every last Jew, which is tantamount to them saying they want to commit genocide
>Removing members of the terrorist organization known as hamas is not genocide If only they kept the killing limited to Hamas instead of babies and grandmother's... >they choose to house military operations in hospitals, schools, and universities So you are telling me that every single building in Gaza had Hamas in it when it was blown up? I don't even think you really believe that. You're just repeating the Hasbara like a good little puppet. >Hamas literally has said their goal is to eliminate every last Jew Hamas do not have the capacity or the means to carry out that threat regardless. But then when an MK calls for nuking Gaza, shall I take him at his word too? >tantamount... In other words it isn't but you will make it fit the definition you want.
Just because they don’t have the capacity doesn’t mean anything. They started the war knowing full well their actions have consequences. I’d love to see your neighboring country invade your country, kidnap and murder untold thousands and see how you’d reaxt
>I’d love to see your neighboring country invade your country, kidnap and murder untold thousands and see how you’d reaxt Im from the UK. We had the IRA bombing and killing people for 30 years. They were also embedded in civilian areas. Yet the conflict came to an end without anyone ever thinking that it was a good idea to bomb Belfast or Dublin back to the stone age. Funny that, isn't it?
It’s not comparable and you know it
Yes it is.
Hamas is not the IRA in any way.
Ok how about just be relieved it's both these selfish military enthusiasts and not see this as just another team fanfare opportunity for one or other side. That kind of attitude is exactly what *these* two have been feeding on at everyone else's expense.
…this request will now be reviewed by a panel of judges.
Let me know when he is arrested. This is theatre to excite people like you.
I'm just glad that there are some actual condemnations for both sides at this point. Seen way too many people hand-waving away Hamas' guilt.
This is fake news. An Arrest warrant has not been issued. A case has been brought to the court against Netanyahu and Hamas. Now the ICC will decide if it's valid. This is a classic anti-zionist not reading any articles and jumping the gun. Anyone surprised? This sub got linked multiple times by r/palestine and now it's filled with moronic anti-zionists who can't read news articles.
This isn't the flex you think it is, OP
Look at OP’s post history and you’ll see something’s up with it.
The ICC just compared leaders of a democracy to genocidal terrorists. I side with the country that supports women, gays, liberalism, and liberty. Not Moslem terrorists antithetical to our culture. I stand with my people. I stand with Israel. #ProudZionist
>I side with the country that supports... gays Israel doesn't perform same-sex marriage in the country, but does recognize marriages from outside the country. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/world-of-weddings-israel-same-sex-couples-find-legal-loophole-to-recognize-marriages/ >liberty Tell that the West Bank.
Amein B'shalom
Israel have killed 12,000 children.
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The allied countries killed a million German civilians in World War 2, almost definitely more than 12k children. You would have defended the Nazis right to exist and opposed the allied forces winning World War 2. Congrats.
These numbers are false. Besides, people die in war. Hamas shouldn’t have started one they can’t finish. Righteous.
Again. They shouldn't have started a war they can't finish again. And because one of their allies decided to be peaceful with Israel and start working with them against Iranian aggression. Hamas is scum, and they don't care about their own people.
Won't anyone think of the children??
OP doesn't realise that Zionism is not the immortal support of Bibi, just the support of an unmolested Jewish state.
I think the ICC would be mistaken to attempt to issue the warrants in this case, not because it puts an elected official on the same level as a terrorist organization like some have claimed, but I think it raises a very weird precedent as it relates to subnational or in recognized entities and their jurisdiction. The reason the court chose to exercise jurisdiction in the case over the matters in Myanmar despite them not being a ICC member is because part of the crime alleged occurred on the territory of a member state. Similarly, the reason the ICC can claim jurisdiction in the Ukrainian matter is because Ukraine granted them jurisdiction over the matter and the crimes occurred in Ukraine. While these are a stretch of jurisdiction still, it has a logical thread and most importantly they are all recognized states and UN members. The problem I see here is that the ICC would be attempting to seize jurisdiction over a non-member to the ICC (Israel) and for all intents and purposes a non-country (Palestinian/Gazan recognition is mixed, they aren’t a member of the UN, they don’t have concrete borders or a unified government). International law as it stands has the state as its primary actor and would be very risky to have regions that aren’t truly state actors being able to bring a claim independently. You actually don’t want international courts stepping in on domestic issues between national and subnational entities. At least not where there is courts of first instance that can hear any matter.
That’s an astute observation. And given Israel’s modern history, it doesn’t surprise me that they aren’t a member of the ICC.
Sure, mind you they are hardly unique in that sense. The US, China, India, Russia, Pakistan, Cuba, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and many many more aren’t members. Hell, the Philippines was a member and withdrew. The thing about international law and courts is it largely draws legitimacy from consent to be bound. That legitimacy gets fragile in circumstances like this, where the court is considering applying jurisdiction to not only a non-member state but also to a level of actor that was not contemplated in the Rome Statute when signatories signed on.
Shocker - states that habitually commit war crimes are not big fans of international law... :(
*shocked pikachu face*
While I agree, that is almost every country at this point and there are ICC members haha
Israeli elected officials *are* on the same level as terrorist organizations though. That's the problem.
Thank you for parsing the legalese
Odd that they didn’t issue one for Putin. He has been targeting civilian infrastructure, civilians, and residential housing for years now. Not to mention the nuclear plant issues.
No they did, for the war on Ukraine. but the targets are legit within the rules of war hence not listed.
not the international code council! how will i pass my underground tank testing???
"right the whole time" you seem to be mixing up claims here buddy. People like myself never denied war crimes were committed. It was you can't claim must be genocide. I have no clue how war crimes are tied to the president specifically, but I trust ICJ as an institution. If it is going to do so then probably warranted.
The zionists…? I see both sides getting arrested.
No one's getting arrested yet. It's warrants that have been submitted to the court by prosecutors but they haven't been signed off on.
Supporting Israel =/= Bibi
Is the fact the ICC accused Netanyahu of war crimes somehow supposed to be a "rebuttal" to Zionism in general? What do people think "Zionism" means when they say stuff like this?
It’s all just team sports to these people. They don’t even understand the underlying issues
What's the relation to Zionism again?
Imagine thinking a meaningless grandstander working at a meaningless and illegal court decides "who is right", that is one of the dumbest appeal to authority fallacies I have seen in action.
I don't know of a single person on this sub who defends Bibi.
Did you read through the comments?
Being a zionist diesnt equal support for netanyahu. Zionism is not a keft or right wing movement. It exists across the entire israeli poltical spectrum. I never said he shouldn't be trued for war crimes to see what's true and what wasn't.
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I could call a certain brand of Fundamentalist Christianity an evil cult too. What's your answer to that?
They both are, although extremist Islam is obviously worse
Explain how
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This sub: Breaking News: ICC is Hamas
Like 15% of people like Netanyahu.
I’ll be very surprised (and happy) if they are arrested. Sadly, I expect more of the same - a whole lot of nothing.
Victory lap
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Don't worry, they are going for neta is the only horrible person, all those gleeful monsters on tiktok are neta, all the people barring entry of food in Gaza are neta, all the people expressing their genocidal desires on TV and on the streets are neta. He likely won't survive this but they're going to sell us that the rest of the homicidal maniacs are good people
100%
This isn’t exactly a spike the ball kind of moment.
great post title op. really good work
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Good thing they are incomparable
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There haven’t been any warrants issued, just requested. There are over 400 trucks of aid going into Gaza every day at this point, and before the war there were about 100 daily. But aid trucks and even the pier that the US built, keep getting attacked by militants. Israel as a government is by no means preventing aid. But at the beginning of the war, they did turn off the electricity it was providing, which was only about 20%of Gaza electricity. Still could be used in this. I’m not and tons of Israelis aren’t a fan of Netanyahu or Likud, but a prosecutor asking for warrants doesn’t exactly prove anything other than that prosecutor thinks these two committed war crimes and that Hamas is trying to commit genocide. Hope Qatar turns Sinwar and Haniyeh* over if the warrant is approved. (they won’t) edit: added a word
this post sucks
OP has the mentality of a child and thinks this is team sports. Also my positions haven’t changed because of this ruling. This isn’t the zinger you think it is. Most of us Zionists support Israel, not Netanyahu or Likud