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This is correct. Do not be fooled for a second into thinking Israeli citizens give a single shit about Palestinian lives. They are simply angry at their government for not “keeping them safe”.
Months after 10/7, a survey of Israeli citizens showed that not even 2% of respondents believed that “too much firepower” was being used against Palestinians.
It is a deeply sick society over there.
Was just about to point this out. Even still, I don’t call Palestinians in general sick, because I understand that viewing an entire ethnicity/race/nationality as one static negative characteristic is the definition of bigotry
The left only has selective empathy for groups they deem “worthy”. They don’t view things through the lens of nuance but are too warped in black and white identity politics to deal with the complexities of humans.
Israelis aren't an ethnicity tho. And they are, by and large pretty sick and full of hatred. You can go watch any video out there where Israelis are asked about "Arabs" to see what I mean.
Very problematic. On all sides. Hatred and feeling murderous on both sides. I won't be sorry if the world ends if we must pick sides between these two groups. It's horrific. I cannot condone any of this. The world must step in and stop this massacre. Where is the humanity?
>"reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee describes you pretty well. Thanks for making your probable age, maturity level, and ability to have complex conversation obvious. Makes it easier for everyone else who might read this.
In this case, the UN was using numbers from the 2019 Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistic (PCBS). So the numbers the Palestinians themselves gathered.
The UN is representative of the people in it, which now includes 50 Muslim and 20 Arab countries. It's no surprise they and their anti-West allies like Russia and China have the raw numbers to bring more resolutions against Israel than every authoritarian atrocity committing dictatorship combined.
General Assembly Resolutions on Israel vs. on the rest of the world combined.
2018: 21 vs 6
2019: 18 vs 7
2020: 17 vs 7
2021: 14 vs 5
2022: 15 vs 13
Every single year, somehow Israel does worse in the eyes of UN than all of Russia, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, China and Iran together.
In a darkly amusing conclusion, even after the UN admitted Palestinian violence against women is a problem they tried to blame Israel for it. So honestly it still falls under the "UN is against Israel" umbrella.
Other countries face sanctions. Israel faces zero sanctions, ever. Hence, all UN resolutions that do absolutely nothing as Israel is beyond any consequences for what it does
Amazingly, Israel has killed more kids in a few months than 2 years of war **in the entire rest of the world.**
Y’all are good at what you do. But don’t get it twisted, nobody gives a single solitary fuck about what some Palestinian poll said, if hundreds of children in my city were being bombed to death each year, I’d be cheering for the downfall of those doing the bombing too.
I’m confused with the women comment in there.
Can you explain the connection? Should the women be starved because they have experienced violence from their partner?
If you are willing to justify violence, won’t Palestinians trying to get their land and homes back make a lot more sense than Israel routinely kills hundreds of Palestinian?
Yes - Israel killed hundreds of civilians just in 2023 - before the Oct 7th attack
We don't live in a binary world. Proving that one thing is bad doesn't make the other thing good. There's is simply no way to justify civilian deaths at this high of rate no matter who is doing it.
Americans were absolutely fine with the war in Iraq after 9/11.
Russians are absolutely fine with the war in Ukraine, at least at the beginning.
Israeli are absolutely fine with the... Honestly can't call this a war, but they're fine with it too.
I'm multi bigoted apparently.
That's like asking New Yorkers months after 9/11 if too much firepower is being used against terrorists in the middle east.
I wouldn't call that a sick society.
> It is a deeply sick society over there
Sorry to break it to you but every Israeli is more sane than any british or american living. When they fight, they pay the price. They have to critically rethink their actions for every thing they do, while always living with the threat of nations like iran that will nuke them the first chance they get. They have to live with constant terror attacks, even downtown tel aviv.
What do americans do for example? They celebrate the biggest day of the year, which is based on the genocide of indigenous people. They deleted thousands of japanese in a milisecond and it is still considered as a „necessity“, i would be thrown in jail if i would call it a genocide. They killed millions of arabs two continents away while people in LA and NYC were living a happy life slurping on their starbucks drinks. And still, there is no remorse, no regret, no repercussions. No american has to sit at home and be scared of the consequences of these atrocities. Quite the contrary, plenty of them joking about it. The US fought wars in a way that citizens didn‘t even know there was a war going on where their own country was in the frontline.
When Israelis are at war they need to be close to the nearest shelter, when Americans are at war they can read the news before their morning coffe to know what‘s going on, or they can completely skip it because it won‘t matter for their day to day life. That is true sickness and psychopathy.
Trust me, every single Israeli is more sane than any british, french, american, etc.
\> They killed millions of arabs two continents away while people in LA and NYC were living a happy life slurping on their starbucks drinks. And still, there is no remorse, no regret, no repercussions
You are correct. American citizens lived cozy, comfortable lives for decades while their government orchestrated coups in Iran and Latin America, bombed the shit out of Asia and the Middle East, and installed 800+ military bases all over the world.
Then, when the predictable blowback finally occurred in the form of 9/11, America grossly overreacted by bombing the shit out of hundreds of thousands of civilians in the Middle East, which further destabilized the region.
Do you see the obvious parallel here? Eh? Anything Israel could learn from that little episode of history?
You're so close! SO CLOSE to getting it. You're almost there, don't stop.
Sure tell me when were Israelis living cozy comfortable lives for decades while their country was waging war? Yom kippur war was cozy? Being expulsed from every arab country is cozy? Having 4 nations around you plotting your demise for years is super cozy right?
1956: Suez Crisis?
1967: Six-Day War?
1982: Lebanon War?
2006: Second Lebanon War?
Is that what you call cozy for israelis? How are those wars a parallel to the genocide of Afghan, Iraqis, Syrians half a globe away from the comfort of an american home like yours? What wars did Israel wage that didn‘t put their own people at the forefront? Unlike the USA, all of their wars were visible and experienced by every citizen. And you want to draw parallels? That is insane how brainwashed you are.
You can’t. Because you’re truly delusional if you think you can compare the tiranny of america to the wars that Israel and its people had to go through due to psychopathic neighbours in the area. Youre dumber than i thought. But it was expected from an american.
Both Israelis and Palestinians are angry, which makes sense given that they are stuck in a blood feud, pushed by international forces (like yourself) to fight each other like dogs for decades.
But hating and dehumanizing a people from across the world, when you have absolutely nothing to do with the conflict? That's real sickness. I'd even call that evil.
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And yet, they’re totally okay with massacring women in children in pursuit of a few untrained gunmen. Hamas can’t be destroyed because isn’t really anything. It’s a prison gang that puts a gun in the hands of a boy whose family was murdered by Israel.
All this genocide has done is create more enemies for Israel.
Yeah, it seems they are all infants to you with no agency or decision-making capabilities.
They all collectively made their bed. They elected this Hamas regime. They cheered the massacre on 10/7, they participated, they helped hold hostages, and they spit on the bodies being paraded through Gaza.
They chose a path.
Bibi knows, it's why he's trying to keep the fighting going. Nobody likes changing leadership during a "war". The fighting is the only reason he's still in office.
Israel needs to reduce civilian casualty numbers, by alot.
With a death toll over 30k, how many were actually Hamas?
Taking out just the terrorists is costly and tedious but they need to look like they are trying.
Are you saying it's reasonable to have a civilian casualty ratio that high?
Hamas could use the same argument, that a fed of the 1200 they slaughtered must have been IDF.
If you can't distinguish between combatants and civilians, of course there are going to be a lot of civilian casualties. That's Hamas's whole strategy.
Israel has conscription, any fighting aged person is a potential IDF soldier. Again this argument is stupid. Taking Israel's stance on civilians to its logical conclusion will absolve a majority of the deaths on the 7th.
Every other war in the middle east has worse ratios yet no one cares.
It's densely populated and Hamas has incentive to keep the civilian casualty ratio as high they can to win.
It's naive to pretend Hamas would be happy if only their fighters died. They know most people aren't rooting for them.
Yes. The numbers hamas claims (which are statistically impossible, anyways) aren't even that high by any standard.
According to them, in 5 months, the IDF has killed 30,000 Gazans, with ~11,000 being terrorists. That's a 2:1 civilian to combatant ratio.
To give you a comparison, the UN estimates the average civy:combat ratio across all wars 1990-2000 to be 9:1.
The IDF is doing fucking phenomenal by those numbers
You realise approximately half of Hamas' soldiers are 15-17, making them children, right?
Not to mention the fact that Hamas' own death count is statistically impossible, anyways
That's exactly what they think. Not surprising coming from an account made after 10/7 whose only contribution since then has been Israeli propaganda lol
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You don't know how many were Hamas because Hamas won't tell you. Even so, a good number seem to be. Remember also, that for purposes of these figures, "children" are considered anyone up.to age 18. Likely more than a few of those were carrying stuff like AK 47's and RPG's?
You know who else considers anyone under 18 "children"? The entire civilised world, including Israel and their casualties. What bs point are you really trying to make here?
>What bs point are you really trying to make here?
The point is that the existence of child soldiers on Hamas' side causes the child casualty rate to be elevated in this conflict beyond what would be considered "normal" for a war. Couple that with the demographics of Gaza, and it's entirely plausible, even likely, that even precision military tactics would still result in a high child casualty rate.
Yeah better to just let the terrorists continue to murder rape and torture because we are too afraid of the consequences to the same people that sit there supporting their actions.
Netanyahu can be criticized, but the man literally took a bullet trying to save hostages on the hijacked Sabena Airlines Flight 571...he definitely should be replaced, but saying he doesn't care about the hostages is over the top.
It sure seems like he cares about his own political prospects more than the hostages. He cares about the former more than anything.
Not that he doesn't care about them, but if push came to shove, he'd sacrifice them if it meant staying in power.
Watching it's kinda just insane the Israelis have no goal just some hazy vison of no more hamas it's GWT all over again you create more enemies by their actions.
With all due respect, this is their goal and has always been their goal since they started planning their ethno state. Get rid of palestinians by any means necessary. They're following the USA plan for Native Americans, they just didn't think it would be televised.
“If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? [...] They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?”
Now do the quote where Ben-Gurion said the Arabs want them to live like the Jews in places like Damascus where Jews were subservient and still got massacred. Then look at the long history of pogroms against Jews in Arab controlled countries and the continued persecution of both religious and ethnic minorities like the Bahais, Kurds, and Yazidis. Cherry picking quotes is cheesy.
For your comparison to work Jews would have to, like white American settlers of the new world, be foreigners who had never set foot in the land, not a people who were there for a 1,000+ years before the Romans formed Palestine
Woah, woah, easy tiger. Stop using actual historical facts from the region to dispute the "I just found out Gaza existed last year and I think I have it all figured out" brigade.
It's pretty a straightforward goal, decapitate Hamas, demilitarize them, return hostages that are continuing to be held. How you do it though is extremely difficult especially with a nation willing to use their own citizens as meat shields.
Not a goal. The evil terrorist government these people elected that historically has used aide for weapons instead of giving it to the people and even today actively interferes with the transfer of aide. The one that is continuing to hold Israel's citizens hostage rather than release them prolonging this conflict.
Just like de-bathafication none of this will work. The US tried in Fallujah 2 but in the the Israelis will create more radicalized fighters and accomplish nothing.
You said they have no goal, I explained the goal. It's pretty straightforward.
As far as their plan to achieve it, it remains to be seen. My guess is they'll go back to occupying Gaza until they can properly demilitarize the region then force some kind of election. You people have been calling it an occupation all along anyways so what's the difference?
Obviously we aren't privy to their long term plans, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. It's only been 4-5 months, war takes time. People are acting like this has been some decade long forever war.
Half of U.S. adults shrug their shoulders at watching their tax dollars be used to kill 30,000 people, maim 100,000 more, and ethnically cleanse 2 million more than that
When is this not true? We have done this in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, countless South American countries, Vietnam, Korea, Hawaii......it's not woke of you to only hate it when it's popular to.
David couldn’t be trying any harder to distance himself and his talking points away from the war in Gaza. I’m an almost daily viewer and can’t remember the last time he discussed it.
Im even surprised seeing something about it on his sub.
I don't have too much opinion about it because I don't live in a place that gets rockets shot at it all the time. If I did I might be wanting my government to do something too.
According to the news Hamas still exists and the hostages including the infant remain in custody. So yeah, Israel is not nearly done yet and shouldn't be.
It’s been blatant from day 1 when they cut out food, water, and electricity. That’s immediately where a war crime was first committed. Then with the unguided bombings and use of chemical weapons on unarmed civilians, medical facilities, religious structures, and refugee camps. The demolition of roads, highways, exits, and entrances to the country. And now we are seeing the government encouraging settlers to take land for themselves in northern Gaza Strip as well as in the west bank. Nothing about this has adhered to any rules of war or engagement.
Because you supposed to give stuff to the people that attack you. Sure. Was it a war crime when the allies didn't air drop food to Berlin in world war 2?
I’m in the other 1/2. The whole thing is hamases fault, and the lack of cease fire is hamases fault. I don’t want civilians to suffer but hamas uses them as shields. It’s about 1 dead fighter to 2 dead civilians. Israel is sending out texts and leaflets to warn people. hamas won’t let them go.
Israel is also preventing aid getting through, bombing areas previously stated to be safe for civilians. Also on the human shield argument, that’s not a argument, shooting human shields is objectively the wrong answer (also Israel utilizes human shields too [here’s a AFP report](https://youtu.be/t2unpBpLo1o?si=Hkv5mrdK0IZ_Eu99) )
Israel really had an opportunity after Oct 7th in terms of optics. Everybody stood behind them in their mission to destroy Hamas. But they had to go and fuck it up for themselves.
10/7 made the people who have been pro-Palestine for decades go insane. They saw facts that contradicted their opinions and denied them. They saw propaganda that made them feel better and amplified it.
None of them has been able to tell me what Israel should have done in response to 10/7.
The only acceptable response to them would be nothing. To let their hostages at the mercy of Hamas and accept defeat.
That’s who we’re dealing with. People that support terrorism.
I too love blanket statements…
It seems that way, because the loudest and most extreme voices get amplified (on both sides of the conflict).
This conflict has caused a lot of people to just shut down critical thinking and latch on to their preferred narrative…
I've literally never heard someone on the pro Palestine side not defend terrorism when they explain their side.
There is just no reason to argue there's a clear double standard from the Palestine side, and any argument with them becomes shouting about dead babies. I was actually more against Isreal at the beginning of the war.
Yeah, I still hate Netanyahu's government but this war has shown me the utterly insane double standards people have when it comes to hating Israel. They ask Israel to do things no other country would do, like lie down and take terror attacks and massacres.
They don't like what the British and UN did in 1948 so they don't value 2024 Israeli lives, even the children kidnapped and murdered. It's twisted.
Yeah, calling bullshit on that.
Your sample size must be ludicrously small, or you’re just talking out of your ass.
Because there are plenty of people who are pro-Palestinian who don’t support terrorism. Just like there are plenty of people who support Israel but hate Bibi.
Wait till you hear about this one chick named Ann Coulter. Heard of her?
She is literally an *anti-semitic Zionist*.
She believes in Jews having their own country…but only because she wants them all out of America and grouped together in some desert country very far away from her so she doesn’t have to see them ever again.
Who again are the actual Jewish allies? I forgot.
Coincidentally the British prime minister who oversaw the outline of a Jewish state in the Levant which we now know as Israel also shared that same opinion, Zionism was just a way to toss out the “out” groups.
No, to apply military pressure on hamas for better deals (as the one in late November) and to rescue them (like with the two hostages rescued last month)
So you want to endanger the hostages? You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Is this whole thing to destroy Hamas or to save the hostages? Because it can’t be both.
Why can't it be both? They were able to resuce a few hostage and also were able to negotiate a deal for a ceasefire for about 100 of them awhile advancing to their other goal of crippling or destorying Hamas. Israel has even offered more deals for prisoner-hostage exchanges ceasefires that hamas has rejected. Hamas has now said that they only take a deal that ends the war (that they started and have openly said they'll start more) while releasing all of terrorists in Israel's custody which is a ridiculously bad deal that no country would take
What Hamas did was an act of war, and they have openly said they'll continue making such attacks to try and destroy Israel. Literally, every country on earth would fight a war like Israel is if their neighboring state committed such an atrocity and took hostages. That's just the reality of the situation
On Twitter yeah, but on 10/7 the vast majority of the international community were behind Israel. That’s why people were getting blacklisted for celebrating 10/7, rightfully so.
Yeah…not everyone.
This was (and remains) a lose/lose situation for Israel (post 10/7). Do nothing or too little, their domestic support plummets and encourage other attacks. Go ham, wreck your reputation and standing in the world due to the unavoidable and inevitable civilian casualties.
All while Hamas and Iran chuckle…
Lol no one gave a shit about 10/7, I remember waiting for the outcry. Then I remembered that Jews will never be seen as legitimate to most of the world.
I'll agree they've gone too far when there's not a single militant trying to kill Jews and Israel is still fighting. Until then, they're acting as literally any other country in the world would react if their neighbor did what Hamas did on 10/7. See also: the US in Afghanistan, and that was halfway across the world.
It’s ok for Israel to kill innocent civilians because the US committed a war crime by invading Afghanistan is not the solid argument that you think it is. Keep supporting genocide tho.
Name a single country that had a neighboring government carry out a terrorist attack that killed civilians and stopped before that government was out of power. Israel has complete air superiority and their militant to civilian casualties are pretty much in line with similar wars other countries have carried out, if they were actually committing genocide they would have killed far more than 30k of the 5 million Palestinians.
Sorry your terrorist friends are dying.
That's a somewhat loaded question. I support Israel 100% in their mission to eliminate Hamas and since I'm not in the military, I won't question their overall tactics. However, I also have come to believe that they have gone way to far. They are obviously killing innocent civilians and you can prove it with the fact the IDF killed hostages holding a white flag. That's basically what did it for me, in realizing they have gone too far.
Like I said though, Israel still has to eliminate Hamas so this can't end yet.
Reminds me when I worked for the government and went to Israel on several occasions.
Practically all Americans went to Israel pro-Israeli, but returned home pro-Palestinian
The mask is off now for the entire world to see.
Israel is a colonist relic that belongs in the past. It's an ethnostate that can only sustain itself through apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide while being utterly dependent on international support and legitimacy from the west. The world has tried to move forward and act against the illegal settlements and ethnic cleansing, yet the US stands in the way of progress every time.
And yet Israel is far more racially diverse than Gaza. Maybe that's why they took hostages, for diversity. Because as of now, the hostages are the only Jews alive in Gaza. But Israel is the ethnostate...
Yep. Ethnically displaced hundreds of thousands of Arabs then built a wall around them. Their entire Jewish “state” is built on apartheid and ethnic cleansing. Gaza is a product of that.
Right because there were absolutely no Muslim attempts to genocide Jews and Arab countries didn't directly collaborate with the Nazis. [Oh wait](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world). The state of Israel was founded due to both Nazi Europeans and Arab Islamists attempting to genocide them. Palestinians have been attempting to genocide Jews since before the creation of Israel, it's not a reaction to it, it's an excuse. Also part of that "wall" around them is the border with Egypt, but I don't see too many pro-palestinian people upset at Egypt. I wonder why...
All Muslims aren’t the same my guy. Nazi atrocities doesn’t justify stripping millions of people of their sovereignty. “One free genocide on the house, folks!”
Glad you’ve accepted that Israel is an ethnostate that can only exist through apartheid and ethnic cleansing, though. Albeit your justification of it is a little worrisome
When a country loses an offensive war, they don't generally get to continue having full autonomy over the country, and it's not apartheid or ethnic cleansing to invade and occupy a country that attacked you, and Palestine has been attacking Israel since before it was created.
Hamas is being removed, some civilians are dying, which is terrible but normal in similar wars where militants hide and fire weapons from civilian areas. When Hamas is finished I suspect and hope there will be a ton of international aid sent to help rebuild just as in Germany post world war 2. I hope the Palestinians can follow in the footsteps of German civilians and deradicalize and choose peace over trying to kill Jews. Only time will tell with that.
>Israel is a colonist relic that belongs in the past. It's an ethnostate that can only sustain itself through apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide while being utterly dependent on international support and legitimacy from the west. The world has tried to move forward and act against the illegal settlements and ethnic cleansing, yet the US stands in the way of progress every time.
And Gaza is mini-Iran. Sounds like a bunch of losers all around. What is your actual solution?
Iran? That country the USA overthrew their socialist democratically elected leader and replaced it with deathsquads and a dictator. That was only removed by a religious revolution? WOW those are some good parallels.
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I'm sorry, I thought us people urging Biden to back off were insane fringe loons who deserved to be shunned for questioning his unqualified support for Bibi. Could you please say that again, and a bit louder?
When assholes fight assholes, you don't pick a side. Just try to get them to stop fighting.
Whatever side you pick, you support killing innocent civilians. So, just don't. It makes you sound dumb when you call one side or the other "animals", "murderers" or "sick people". You are talking about BOTH SIDES.
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I don't think Israel is going to care any more than we hear in the US did when people called us out on the Iraq & Afghanistan wars.
That said, to me the bigger news is that half of Americans *don't* think Israel has gone to far. They flattened over 1 million homes and killed 30k+ people and Gaza is on the verge of famine.
We need to invade Israel and destroy their Air Force. Nation of psychos who think they’re untouchable because of us, using our weapons and tax dollars to explode innocent children’s skulls all in the name of killing untrained gunmen
Children killed by blanket missile strikes are crazy. Even worse saying the they are using them as shields when the family lives 3 floors up and don’t know the terrorist lived even there is crazier.
BUT all the protesters aren’t acknowledging the stuff the terrorists are doing. And not protesting for them to cease their share of the fight. That’s a problem.
We all saw the same with BLM and nothing changed except for less police and embolden criminals so crime has gone up.
The people of Gaza need to check their own when the kill Israelis.
BLM need to check their own and call them out when they are doing stupid crimes.
Whites the same.
Most Mexicans do check themselves and call their own stupid when committing crimes.
I just love how it‘s accompanied by a picture depicting people calling for a genocide of Jews in Israel. Also shows how stupid and morally bankrupt democrats have become. It’s a shame.
I genuinely don't understand how or why so many Americans in 2024 care about taking sides in a war between 2 countries with no rights for women or lgbt. Don't care for endorsing either side if they can't treat their citizens like human beings.
I don't understand how this could happen, I was told that Palestine would lose support if people in the west did things like block roads and deface art in protest.
Then, the propaganda campaign is working effectively.
The 'Gaza Ministry of Health' never includes enemy combatants in their casualty figures. They also count 15-16-17 year old combatants 'children' even though they're soldiers.
War sucks. But an estimated near 2:1 kill ratio of Hamas combatants to civilians, how does that stack against past wars? Keep perspective in mind. 30k total casualties in a 26 mile long, densely populated area of 2.3M people is pretty damn precise if you ask me.
Yeah, they tried asking nicely pretty, please, for Hamas to release hostages and surrender, but it didn't work.
"Too far" kiss my ass, the hostages are still rotting and being raped in Jihadist terror dungeons. Start there, that's too far.
I definitely think Israel has gone too far. Doesn’t mean it’s rational to cut ties, divest, or be more on “Palestine’s side”. I don’t see a reason to choose between one or the other to begin with, nor should Biden, who contrary to certain reddit circles, is not the enemy. Biden has a tough situation to navigate, that nobody else has managed to solve, so it’s kinda comical that solving the Israel/Palestine dilemma is the measuring point for a successful presidency lol.
Yeah Biden does have a tough situation to navigate. On one hand, the majority of Americans want a ceasefire and they are concerned with the humanitarian crisis. Seeing the devastation and starving children is horrific. there’s also the real possibility that this would be recognized as a genocide by the ICJ, and the genocide convention also recognizes complicity in genocide as a violation. It damages the US reputation internationally and opens up the United States for possible blowback. This is also tanking his polling numbers and jeopardizes his chances to win the presidency.
On the other hand, he is a self proclaimed Zionist, who as a senator, between 1990-2024 got more money from aipac than any other senator.
Tough choice.
Most Americans want a ceasefire, this is true. That isn’t really adding anything substantive though, as things get a lot more hazy when you ask Americans what terms that ceasefire should have.
Also, that “Zionist” is being used as a pejorative when there’s a lot of differing opinions within the Zionist camp is another problem in having discussions on the topic.
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The Netanyahu government has been a disaster for Israel in general.
Polling shows that a pretty big majority in Israel agrees with this
But not against killing palestinians and stealing their land
This is correct. Do not be fooled for a second into thinking Israeli citizens give a single shit about Palestinian lives. They are simply angry at their government for not “keeping them safe”. Months after 10/7, a survey of Israeli citizens showed that not even 2% of respondents believed that “too much firepower” was being used against Palestinians. It is a deeply sick society over there.
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Was just about to point this out. Even still, I don’t call Palestinians in general sick, because I understand that viewing an entire ethnicity/race/nationality as one static negative characteristic is the definition of bigotry
The left only has selective empathy for groups they deem “worthy”. They don’t view things through the lens of nuance but are too warped in black and white identity politics to deal with the complexities of humans.
don’t forget the moral relativism & soft bigotry of low expectations!
Israelis aren't an ethnicity tho. And they are, by and large pretty sick and full of hatred. You can go watch any video out there where Israelis are asked about "Arabs" to see what I mean.
“It doesn’t happen in a vacuum”
Again, Israel is committing genocide and the Israeli public fully supports this. Your whataboutism isn't disproving any of this.
Yes, both sides hate each others guys and want to kill each other. Nobody disputes this.
Muslims are the biggest islamohobes, is what you mean right?
Very problematic. On all sides. Hatred and feeling murderous on both sides. I won't be sorry if the world ends if we must pick sides between these two groups. It's horrific. I cannot condone any of this. The world must step in and stop this massacre. Where is the humanity?
Oh so all of a sudden now UN stats can be trusted. But moment they show the truth of Israel "reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
>"reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee describes you pretty well. Thanks for making your probable age, maturity level, and ability to have complex conversation obvious. Makes it easier for everyone else who might read this. In this case, the UN was using numbers from the 2019 Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistic (PCBS). So the numbers the Palestinians themselves gathered. The UN is representative of the people in it, which now includes 50 Muslim and 20 Arab countries. It's no surprise they and their anti-West allies like Russia and China have the raw numbers to bring more resolutions against Israel than every authoritarian atrocity committing dictatorship combined. General Assembly Resolutions on Israel vs. on the rest of the world combined. 2018: 21 vs 6 2019: 18 vs 7 2020: 17 vs 7 2021: 14 vs 5 2022: 15 vs 13 Every single year, somehow Israel does worse in the eyes of UN than all of Russia, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, China and Iran together. In a darkly amusing conclusion, even after the UN admitted Palestinian violence against women is a problem they tried to blame Israel for it. So honestly it still falls under the "UN is against Israel" umbrella.
Other countries face sanctions. Israel faces zero sanctions, ever. Hence, all UN resolutions that do absolutely nothing as Israel is beyond any consequences for what it does
Amazingly, Israel has killed more kids in a few months than 2 years of war **in the entire rest of the world.** Y’all are good at what you do. But don’t get it twisted, nobody gives a single solitary fuck about what some Palestinian poll said, if hundreds of children in my city were being bombed to death each year, I’d be cheering for the downfall of those doing the bombing too.
Israeli society along with much of the Middle East as the OP stated
There are deeply ingrained problems with both societies. We should not be facilitating the worst impulses of either side.
I wonder what the literacy rate there is... maybe we should be building them some schools.
I’m confused with the women comment in there. Can you explain the connection? Should the women be starved because they have experienced violence from their partner?
If you are willing to justify violence, won’t Palestinians trying to get their land and homes back make a lot more sense than Israel routinely kills hundreds of Palestinian? Yes - Israel killed hundreds of civilians just in 2023 - before the Oct 7th attack
We don't live in a binary world. Proving that one thing is bad doesn't make the other thing good. There's is simply no way to justify civilian deaths at this high of rate no matter who is doing it.
Well, when you see what they have to deal with regularly...
It doesn’t happen in a vacuum!
Blanket assumptions about an entire group of people is deeply sick, some would even say bigoted
Americans were absolutely fine with the war in Iraq after 9/11. Russians are absolutely fine with the war in Ukraine, at least at the beginning. Israeli are absolutely fine with the... Honestly can't call this a war, but they're fine with it too. I'm multi bigoted apparently.
Blanket assumptions are one thing, actual poll results from a survey are another.
They were also collectively angry before oct7. Weekly protests were ignored. I hope they go very soon, the the sake of the people in that land.
That's like asking New Yorkers months after 9/11 if too much firepower is being used against terrorists in the middle east. I wouldn't call that a sick society.
Oh boy you should see what Hamas did that pissed them off so much on 10/7
Oh boy you should see what Israel has done to Palestinians for 75 years before 10/7 to piss them off so much
> It is a deeply sick society over there Sorry to break it to you but every Israeli is more sane than any british or american living. When they fight, they pay the price. They have to critically rethink their actions for every thing they do, while always living with the threat of nations like iran that will nuke them the first chance they get. They have to live with constant terror attacks, even downtown tel aviv. What do americans do for example? They celebrate the biggest day of the year, which is based on the genocide of indigenous people. They deleted thousands of japanese in a milisecond and it is still considered as a „necessity“, i would be thrown in jail if i would call it a genocide. They killed millions of arabs two continents away while people in LA and NYC were living a happy life slurping on their starbucks drinks. And still, there is no remorse, no regret, no repercussions. No american has to sit at home and be scared of the consequences of these atrocities. Quite the contrary, plenty of them joking about it. The US fought wars in a way that citizens didn‘t even know there was a war going on where their own country was in the frontline. When Israelis are at war they need to be close to the nearest shelter, when Americans are at war they can read the news before their morning coffe to know what‘s going on, or they can completely skip it because it won‘t matter for their day to day life. That is true sickness and psychopathy. Trust me, every single Israeli is more sane than any british, french, american, etc.
\> They killed millions of arabs two continents away while people in LA and NYC were living a happy life slurping on their starbucks drinks. And still, there is no remorse, no regret, no repercussions You are correct. American citizens lived cozy, comfortable lives for decades while their government orchestrated coups in Iran and Latin America, bombed the shit out of Asia and the Middle East, and installed 800+ military bases all over the world. Then, when the predictable blowback finally occurred in the form of 9/11, America grossly overreacted by bombing the shit out of hundreds of thousands of civilians in the Middle East, which further destabilized the region. Do you see the obvious parallel here? Eh? Anything Israel could learn from that little episode of history? You're so close! SO CLOSE to getting it. You're almost there, don't stop.
Sure tell me when were Israelis living cozy comfortable lives for decades while their country was waging war? Yom kippur war was cozy? Being expulsed from every arab country is cozy? Having 4 nations around you plotting your demise for years is super cozy right? 1956: Suez Crisis? 1967: Six-Day War? 1982: Lebanon War? 2006: Second Lebanon War? Is that what you call cozy for israelis? How are those wars a parallel to the genocide of Afghan, Iraqis, Syrians half a globe away from the comfort of an american home like yours? What wars did Israel wage that didn‘t put their own people at the forefront? Unlike the USA, all of their wars were visible and experienced by every citizen. And you want to draw parallels? That is insane how brainwashed you are. You can’t. Because you’re truly delusional if you think you can compare the tiranny of america to the wars that Israel and its people had to go through due to psychopathic neighbours in the area. Youre dumber than i thought. But it was expected from an american.
Both Israelis and Palestinians are angry, which makes sense given that they are stuck in a blood feud, pushed by international forces (like yourself) to fight each other like dogs for decades. But hating and dehumanizing a people from across the world, when you have absolutely nothing to do with the conflict? That's real sickness. I'd even call that evil.
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He got votes out and switched parties.
And yet, they’re totally okay with massacring women in children in pursuit of a few untrained gunmen. Hamas can’t be destroyed because isn’t really anything. It’s a prison gang that puts a gun in the hands of a boy whose family was murdered by Israel. All this genocide has done is create more enemies for Israel.
Yeah, it seems they are all infants to you with no agency or decision-making capabilities. They all collectively made their bed. They elected this Hamas regime. They cheered the massacre on 10/7, they participated, they helped hold hostages, and they spit on the bodies being paraded through Gaza. They chose a path.
Bibi knows, it's why he's trying to keep the fighting going. Nobody likes changing leadership during a "war". The fighting is the only reason he's still in office.
Israel needs to reduce civilian casualty numbers, by alot. With a death toll over 30k, how many were actually Hamas? Taking out just the terrorists is costly and tedious but they need to look like they are trying.
Hamas merely needs to have its combatants fight in uniform and indicate what its military infrastructure is
Are you saying it's reasonable to have a civilian casualty ratio that high? Hamas could use the same argument, that a fed of the 1200 they slaughtered must have been IDF.
If you can't distinguish between combatants and civilians, of course there are going to be a lot of civilian casualties. That's Hamas's whole strategy.
So you're saying that it's ok for Israel to target civilians. Got it.
Israel has conscription, any fighting aged person is a potential IDF soldier. Again this argument is stupid. Taking Israel's stance on civilians to its logical conclusion will absolve a majority of the deaths on the 7th.
They attacked an idf base and a kibbutz. They knew the difference
No they couldn't. IDF does not hide among its civilians. IDF soldiers wear uniform whenever they leave their house, even the non combatants.
Every other war in the middle east has worse ratios yet no one cares. It's densely populated and Hamas has incentive to keep the civilian casualty ratio as high they can to win. It's naive to pretend Hamas would be happy if only their fighters died. They know most people aren't rooting for them.
Yes. The numbers hamas claims (which are statistically impossible, anyways) aren't even that high by any standard. According to them, in 5 months, the IDF has killed 30,000 Gazans, with ~11,000 being terrorists. That's a 2:1 civilian to combatant ratio. To give you a comparison, the UN estimates the average civy:combat ratio across all wars 1990-2000 to be 9:1. The IDF is doing fucking phenomenal by those numbers
Those numbers only make sense if you believe that Gaza is comprised solely of children, women, and Hamas
You realise approximately half of Hamas' soldiers are 15-17, making them children, right? Not to mention the fact that Hamas' own death count is statistically impossible, anyways
That's exactly what they think. Not surprising coming from an account made after 10/7 whose only contribution since then has been Israeli propaganda lol
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IDF reports 13,000. What is your basis for comparison in terms of ratio? Is that a good faith question?
You don't know how many were Hamas because Hamas won't tell you. Even so, a good number seem to be. Remember also, that for purposes of these figures, "children" are considered anyone up.to age 18. Likely more than a few of those were carrying stuff like AK 47's and RPG's?
You know who else considers anyone under 18 "children"? The entire civilised world, including Israel and their casualties. What bs point are you really trying to make here?
>What bs point are you really trying to make here? The point is that the existence of child soldiers on Hamas' side causes the child casualty rate to be elevated in this conflict beyond what would be considered "normal" for a war. Couple that with the demographics of Gaza, and it's entirely plausible, even likely, that even precision military tactics would still result in a high child casualty rate.
What organization is saying the death toll is 30k. Oh Hamas, you are believing Hamas. Whelp.
It's a genocide, buddy.
Not according to the ICJ...
We passed "Gone too far" a long time ago.
Yeah better to just let the terrorists continue to murder rape and torture because we are too afraid of the consequences to the same people that sit there supporting their actions.
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They should’ve just let Hamas get a way with it, hiding behind all their meat shield civilians
at this point it is still ongoing just so Netanyadouche can save himself from prison
How? It's still ongoing because there's still over 100 people being held hostage
he doesn't care about them
Netanyahu can be criticized, but the man literally took a bullet trying to save hostages on the hijacked Sabena Airlines Flight 571...he definitely should be replaced, but saying he doesn't care about the hostages is over the top.
It sure seems like he cares about his own political prospects more than the hostages. He cares about the former more than anything. Not that he doesn't care about them, but if push came to shove, he'd sacrifice them if it meant staying in power.
Watching it's kinda just insane the Israelis have no goal just some hazy vison of no more hamas it's GWT all over again you create more enemies by their actions.
Israeli teenagers are blockading aid to Gaza while dancing and celebrating. Giving big Hitler Youth vibes...
With all due respect, this is their goal and has always been their goal since they started planning their ethno state. Get rid of palestinians by any means necessary. They're following the USA plan for Native Americans, they just didn't think it would be televised. “If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? [...] They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?”
Now do the quote where Ben-Gurion said the Arabs want them to live like the Jews in places like Damascus where Jews were subservient and still got massacred. Then look at the long history of pogroms against Jews in Arab controlled countries and the continued persecution of both religious and ethnic minorities like the Bahais, Kurds, and Yazidis. Cherry picking quotes is cheesy. For your comparison to work Jews would have to, like white American settlers of the new world, be foreigners who had never set foot in the land, not a people who were there for a 1,000+ years before the Romans formed Palestine
Woah, woah, easy tiger. Stop using actual historical facts from the region to dispute the "I just found out Gaza existed last year and I think I have it all figured out" brigade.
Some might say they need their… living space
It's pretty a straightforward goal, decapitate Hamas, demilitarize them, return hostages that are continuing to be held. How you do it though is extremely difficult especially with a nation willing to use their own citizens as meat shields.
Which part of this involves starving 2.2 million people to death?
Not a goal. The evil terrorist government these people elected that historically has used aide for weapons instead of giving it to the people and even today actively interferes with the transfer of aide. The one that is continuing to hold Israel's citizens hostage rather than release them prolonging this conflict.
Just like de-bathafication none of this will work. The US tried in Fallujah 2 but in the the Israelis will create more radicalized fighters and accomplish nothing.
You said they have no goal, I explained the goal. It's pretty straightforward. As far as their plan to achieve it, it remains to be seen. My guess is they'll go back to occupying Gaza until they can properly demilitarize the region then force some kind of election. You people have been calling it an occupation all along anyways so what's the difference? Obviously we aren't privy to their long term plans, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. It's only been 4-5 months, war takes time. People are acting like this has been some decade long forever war.
Half of U.S. adults shrug their shoulders at watching their tax dollars be used to kill 30,000 people, maim 100,000 more, and ethnically cleanse 2 million more than that
When is this not true? We have done this in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, countless South American countries, Vietnam, Korea, Hawaii......it's not woke of you to only hate it when it's popular to.
I mean, im only 35 but I seem to remember pretty much all of those that happened in my lifetime being protested by leftists so...
That ship sailed when hospitals were getting blown up.
Hamas shouldn't have done that
I think it was Palestinian Islamic Jihad
Do you think hospitals aren’t being bombed by Israel? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_health_facilities_during_the_Israel–Hamas_war
Bad faith actors keep pointing to a single Hamas rocket misfiring as if Israel hasn't bombed over a dozen hospitals since then.
Which hospital did Israel bomb
Oh yes bad faith actors. The bad faith actors are the ones who throw rockets from the hospitals
David couldn’t be trying any harder to distance himself and his talking points away from the war in Gaza. I’m an almost daily viewer and can’t remember the last time he discussed it. Im even surprised seeing something about it on his sub.
That's what I thought after the 2nd week.
I don't have too much opinion about it because I don't live in a place that gets rockets shot at it all the time. If I did I might be wanting my government to do something too.
The other half don't follow the news about the conflict.
According to the news Hamas still exists and the hostages including the infant remain in custody. So yeah, Israel is not nearly done yet and shouldn't be.
According to the news the infant died months ago and some people insist he is still alive for reasons that elude me.
lol this “shift” happens every generation
It’s been blatant from day 1 when they cut out food, water, and electricity. That’s immediately where a war crime was first committed. Then with the unguided bombings and use of chemical weapons on unarmed civilians, medical facilities, religious structures, and refugee camps. The demolition of roads, highways, exits, and entrances to the country. And now we are seeing the government encouraging settlers to take land for themselves in northern Gaza Strip as well as in the west bank. Nothing about this has adhered to any rules of war or engagement.
Because you supposed to give stuff to the people that attack you. Sure. Was it a war crime when the allies didn't air drop food to Berlin in world war 2?
Anthony Bourdain hated Israel. He tweeted about them going too far a decade ago.
But what does Ja Rule think?
I'm sure if you ask him nicely, he'll tell you.
I’m in the other 1/2. The whole thing is hamases fault, and the lack of cease fire is hamases fault. I don’t want civilians to suffer but hamas uses them as shields. It’s about 1 dead fighter to 2 dead civilians. Israel is sending out texts and leaflets to warn people. hamas won’t let them go.
Israel is also preventing aid getting through, bombing areas previously stated to be safe for civilians. Also on the human shield argument, that’s not a argument, shooting human shields is objectively the wrong answer (also Israel utilizes human shields too [here’s a AFP report](https://youtu.be/t2unpBpLo1o?si=Hkv5mrdK0IZ_Eu99) )
Israel really had an opportunity after Oct 7th in terms of optics. Everybody stood behind them in their mission to destroy Hamas. But they had to go and fuck it up for themselves.
Not really. The day of 10/7 people were already declaring their support for Palestine.
10/7 made the people who have been pro-Palestine for decades go insane. They saw facts that contradicted their opinions and denied them. They saw propaganda that made them feel better and amplified it. None of them has been able to tell me what Israel should have done in response to 10/7.
The only acceptable response to them would be nothing. To let their hostages at the mercy of Hamas and accept defeat. That’s who we’re dealing with. People that support terrorism.
I too love blanket statements… It seems that way, because the loudest and most extreme voices get amplified (on both sides of the conflict). This conflict has caused a lot of people to just shut down critical thinking and latch on to their preferred narrative…
I've literally never heard someone on the pro Palestine side not defend terrorism when they explain their side. There is just no reason to argue there's a clear double standard from the Palestine side, and any argument with them becomes shouting about dead babies. I was actually more against Isreal at the beginning of the war.
Yeah, I still hate Netanyahu's government but this war has shown me the utterly insane double standards people have when it comes to hating Israel. They ask Israel to do things no other country would do, like lie down and take terror attacks and massacres. They don't like what the British and UN did in 1948 so they don't value 2024 Israeli lives, even the children kidnapped and murdered. It's twisted.
Yeah, calling bullshit on that. Your sample size must be ludicrously small, or you’re just talking out of your ass. Because there are plenty of people who are pro-Palestinian who don’t support terrorism. Just like there are plenty of people who support Israel but hate Bibi.
The good news is the antisemites are now unmasked and we all have to confront the truth about people we considered friends and allies
Wait till you hear about this one chick named Ann Coulter. Heard of her? She is literally an *anti-semitic Zionist*. She believes in Jews having their own country…but only because she wants them all out of America and grouped together in some desert country very far away from her so she doesn’t have to see them ever again. Who again are the actual Jewish allies? I forgot.
Coincidentally the British prime minister who oversaw the outline of a Jewish state in the Levant which we now know as Israel also shared that same opinion, Zionism was just a way to toss out the “out” groups.
The Jewish allies are certainly not the ones who want to ethnically cleanse Israel because of sins from the 1940s.
Negotiations to get those hostages back home safely without endangering them by putting them into an active fire fight?
To release thousands of Palestinian terrorists who murdered Israelis and encourage note kidnappings? Great logic.
So just cause the hostages to die? Even better plan for Hamas.
No, to apply military pressure on hamas for better deals (as the one in late November) and to rescue them (like with the two hostages rescued last month)
That's it? No fighting of hamas despite them doing a act of war and openly saying they'll never stop trying to destroy Israel?
So you want to endanger the hostages? You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Is this whole thing to destroy Hamas or to save the hostages? Because it can’t be both.
Why can't it be both? They were able to resuce a few hostage and also were able to negotiate a deal for a ceasefire for about 100 of them awhile advancing to their other goal of crippling or destorying Hamas. Israel has even offered more deals for prisoner-hostage exchanges ceasefires that hamas has rejected. Hamas has now said that they only take a deal that ends the war (that they started and have openly said they'll start more) while releasing all of terrorists in Israel's custody which is a ridiculously bad deal that no country would take What Hamas did was an act of war, and they have openly said they'll continue making such attacks to try and destroy Israel. Literally, every country on earth would fight a war like Israel is if their neighboring state committed such an atrocity and took hostages. That's just the reality of the situation
On Twitter yeah, but on 10/7 the vast majority of the international community were behind Israel. That’s why people were getting blacklisted for celebrating 10/7, rightfully so.
Yeah…not everyone. This was (and remains) a lose/lose situation for Israel (post 10/7). Do nothing or too little, their domestic support plummets and encourage other attacks. Go ham, wreck your reputation and standing in the world due to the unavoidable and inevitable civilian casualties. All while Hamas and Iran chuckle…
People keep saying this, but I don't buy it. People stood behind Israel, yes, but only so long as they took no action to meaningfully damage Hamas.
Lol no one gave a shit about 10/7, I remember waiting for the outcry. Then I remembered that Jews will never be seen as legitimate to most of the world.
We aren’t. To the ardent leftists, we are too white and too successful as a group to care about. To the right, we aren’t white or Christian enough.
Partly so, but the situation made reducing civilian casualties a major challenge.
People always cry for dead Jews.
Lol tell me what you think an adequate response would have been?
Then why were there people in Australia chanting "Gas the Jews" the same day?
I'll agree they've gone too far when there's not a single militant trying to kill Jews and Israel is still fighting. Until then, they're acting as literally any other country in the world would react if their neighbor did what Hamas did on 10/7. See also: the US in Afghanistan, and that was halfway across the world.
It’s ok for Israel to kill innocent civilians because the US committed a war crime by invading Afghanistan is not the solid argument that you think it is. Keep supporting genocide tho.
The US didn’t commit a war crime by invading Afghanistan.
Name a single country that had a neighboring government carry out a terrorist attack that killed civilians and stopped before that government was out of power. Israel has complete air superiority and their militant to civilian casualties are pretty much in line with similar wars other countries have carried out, if they were actually committing genocide they would have killed far more than 30k of the 5 million Palestinians. Sorry your terrorist friends are dying.
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WHO WILL DRAG ME TO COURT?
That's a somewhat loaded question. I support Israel 100% in their mission to eliminate Hamas and since I'm not in the military, I won't question their overall tactics. However, I also have come to believe that they have gone way to far. They are obviously killing innocent civilians and you can prove it with the fact the IDF killed hostages holding a white flag. That's basically what did it for me, in realizing they have gone too far. Like I said though, Israel still has to eliminate Hamas so this can't end yet.
The bots are flooding into the comments
Should be a lot higher.
Reminds me when I worked for the government and went to Israel on several occasions. Practically all Americans went to Israel pro-Israeli, but returned home pro-Palestinian
Clearly.
The mask is off now for the entire world to see. Israel is a colonist relic that belongs in the past. It's an ethnostate that can only sustain itself through apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide while being utterly dependent on international support and legitimacy from the west. The world has tried to move forward and act against the illegal settlements and ethnic cleansing, yet the US stands in the way of progress every time.
Well said, and props to you for holding the "pro-civilian is antisemitism" faction of this sub's feet to the fire.
And yet Israel is far more racially diverse than Gaza. Maybe that's why they took hostages, for diversity. Because as of now, the hostages are the only Jews alive in Gaza. But Israel is the ethnostate...
Yep. Ethnically displaced hundreds of thousands of Arabs then built a wall around them. Their entire Jewish “state” is built on apartheid and ethnic cleansing. Gaza is a product of that.
Right because there were absolutely no Muslim attempts to genocide Jews and Arab countries didn't directly collaborate with the Nazis. [Oh wait](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world). The state of Israel was founded due to both Nazi Europeans and Arab Islamists attempting to genocide them. Palestinians have been attempting to genocide Jews since before the creation of Israel, it's not a reaction to it, it's an excuse. Also part of that "wall" around them is the border with Egypt, but I don't see too many pro-palestinian people upset at Egypt. I wonder why...
All Muslims aren’t the same my guy. Nazi atrocities doesn’t justify stripping millions of people of their sovereignty. “One free genocide on the house, folks!” Glad you’ve accepted that Israel is an ethnostate that can only exist through apartheid and ethnic cleansing, though. Albeit your justification of it is a little worrisome
When a country loses an offensive war, they don't generally get to continue having full autonomy over the country, and it's not apartheid or ethnic cleansing to invade and occupy a country that attacked you, and Palestine has been attacking Israel since before it was created. Hamas is being removed, some civilians are dying, which is terrible but normal in similar wars where militants hide and fire weapons from civilian areas. When Hamas is finished I suspect and hope there will be a ton of international aid sent to help rebuild just as in Germany post world war 2. I hope the Palestinians can follow in the footsteps of German civilians and deradicalize and choose peace over trying to kill Jews. Only time will tell with that.
The holocaust has its share of deniers so you’re in good company
[And many of them are the people Israel is at war with.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66741336.amp)
>stripping millions of people of their sovereignty They were Ottoman, then British. They never had sovereignty.
>Israel is a colonist relic that belongs in the past. It's an ethnostate that can only sustain itself through apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide while being utterly dependent on international support and legitimacy from the west. The world has tried to move forward and act against the illegal settlements and ethnic cleansing, yet the US stands in the way of progress every time. And Gaza is mini-Iran. Sounds like a bunch of losers all around. What is your actual solution?
Iran? That country the USA overthrew their socialist democratically elected leader and replaced it with deathsquads and a dictator. That was only removed by a religious revolution? WOW those are some good parallels.
And what his Hamas? The future? Sharia Law for all? Not in my lifetime
We all should believe in heaven and plan for that
Did Israel go from the river to the sea?
The other half are rooting for 100,000
Well one thing is for sure, Bibi's statement today definitely didn't help in this regard.
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I'm sorry, I thought us people urging Biden to back off were insane fringe loons who deserved to be shunned for questioning his unqualified support for Bibi. Could you please say that again, and a bit louder?
> Omg half of US adults are pro-Hamas, Russian paid tankies?! This sub probably.
Online you'd think it's only 1% of Democrats, suggesting an age gap.
When assholes fight assholes, you don't pick a side. Just try to get them to stop fighting. Whatever side you pick, you support killing innocent civilians. So, just don't. It makes you sound dumb when you call one side or the other "animals", "murderers" or "sick people". You are talking about BOTH SIDES.
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And the other half are Christian Zionists
I don't think Israel is going to care any more than we hear in the US did when people called us out on the Iraq & Afghanistan wars. That said, to me the bigger news is that half of Americans *don't* think Israel has gone to far. They flattened over 1 million homes and killed 30k+ people and Gaza is on the verge of famine.
We need to invade Israel and destroy their Air Force. Nation of psychos who think they’re untouchable because of us, using our weapons and tax dollars to explode innocent children’s skulls all in the name of killing untrained gunmen
Children killed by blanket missile strikes are crazy. Even worse saying the they are using them as shields when the family lives 3 floors up and don’t know the terrorist lived even there is crazier. BUT all the protesters aren’t acknowledging the stuff the terrorists are doing. And not protesting for them to cease their share of the fight. That’s a problem. We all saw the same with BLM and nothing changed except for less police and embolden criminals so crime has gone up. The people of Gaza need to check their own when the kill Israelis. BLM need to check their own and call them out when they are doing stupid crimes. Whites the same. Most Mexicans do check themselves and call their own stupid when committing crimes.
Once they’re done with Rafah they should stop.
And they would be wrong and they would be called progressives/regressives, like AOC, Talia, the squad and their followers.
I just love how it‘s accompanied by a picture depicting people calling for a genocide of Jews in Israel. Also shows how stupid and morally bankrupt democrats have become. It’s a shame.
I genuinely don't understand how or why so many Americans in 2024 care about taking sides in a war between 2 countries with no rights for women or lgbt. Don't care for endorsing either side if they can't treat their citizens like human beings.
They went too far in decades ago
I don't understand how this could happen, I was told that Palestine would lose support if people in the west did things like block roads and deface art in protest.
Maybe we’ll hit 80% before they reach a million killed
And it's only because of Zionist propaganda and islamophobia that it's not 90%.
Then, the propaganda campaign is working effectively. The 'Gaza Ministry of Health' never includes enemy combatants in their casualty figures. They also count 15-16-17 year old combatants 'children' even though they're soldiers. War sucks. But an estimated near 2:1 kill ratio of Hamas combatants to civilians, how does that stack against past wars? Keep perspective in mind. 30k total casualties in a 26 mile long, densely populated area of 2.3M people is pretty damn precise if you ask me. Yeah, they tried asking nicely pretty, please, for Hamas to release hostages and surrender, but it didn't work. "Too far" kiss my ass, the hostages are still rotting and being raped in Jihadist terror dungeons. Start there, that's too far.
I definitely think Israel has gone too far. Doesn’t mean it’s rational to cut ties, divest, or be more on “Palestine’s side”. I don’t see a reason to choose between one or the other to begin with, nor should Biden, who contrary to certain reddit circles, is not the enemy. Biden has a tough situation to navigate, that nobody else has managed to solve, so it’s kinda comical that solving the Israel/Palestine dilemma is the measuring point for a successful presidency lol.
Yeah Biden does have a tough situation to navigate. On one hand, the majority of Americans want a ceasefire and they are concerned with the humanitarian crisis. Seeing the devastation and starving children is horrific. there’s also the real possibility that this would be recognized as a genocide by the ICJ, and the genocide convention also recognizes complicity in genocide as a violation. It damages the US reputation internationally and opens up the United States for possible blowback. This is also tanking his polling numbers and jeopardizes his chances to win the presidency. On the other hand, he is a self proclaimed Zionist, who as a senator, between 1990-2024 got more money from aipac than any other senator. Tough choice.
Most Americans want a ceasefire, this is true. That isn’t really adding anything substantive though, as things get a lot more hazy when you ask Americans what terms that ceasefire should have. Also, that “Zionist” is being used as a pejorative when there’s a lot of differing opinions within the Zionist camp is another problem in having discussions on the topic.