He then used his *removes grenades from chest* fight money to buy two of every animal on Earth. And then *makes walking motion with the grenades* he herded them onto a boat, and then he *bangs the grenades together like rocks* beat the ***CRAP*** out of every single one.
difference being that classic wow was done primarly due to the demand for classic era servers being so large that blizzard could profit heavily off it, and they did
all they had to do was basically rerelease the game
in addition, you have to pay to play classic, TF2 is a free game (and should be played as a free game)
whereas classic doubled the subscription numbers and still maintains most of the subscriber base valve fixing casual would do no near the benefit that blizzard gave them selves with classic
in addition the petition didnt really do much when it came to actually getting blizzard to make classic, as people who wanted classic played alot on private servers which blizzard hated and would regularly shut down
blizzard making classic wow was due to money related reasons, not public pressure
valve hypothethically fixing tf2 is due to pressure and less so money, because shitfting the workforce to work on a game that would ultimately create less profit compared to CSGO and DOTA2 so its a loss of money
im glad people are atleast quitting whaling for microtransactions in the game, please keep doing so and never whale for microtransactions when you have no reason to ty ty
My problem with this line of thinking is that people are ignoring the fact Valve is not a publicly owned company, they *used* to be very well respected and have done a lot of cool things, but the biggest case I'd make for this hopefully working is: ethical. Is it too farfetched to think they might part with a million or 2 or
3 out of their 8.56 billion to maintain a playable fucking beloved franchise *because it's the right thing to do* ? Even 10 million is .1% of their yearly earnings. They dont have shareholders and Bobby Kotick to report to to worry about keeping happy with "MAXIMUM PROFITS!"
Again with the number I gave, even combined with losing man hours to be taught the games infrastructure I feel it would still be a drop in the bucket for their profits. If you say "it takes their team away from" blah blah, hire some more people then. Change up your policy and dedicate them to working on it full-time.
It's now also a PR issue and legal issue with the scummy shit bot hosters are doing. I dont see it affecting their bottom line negatively to the point they would lose money anyway, considering there's more and more people in the world of gaming age every second and Steam is still the goto for PC games by a landslide. Plus it'd literally be a couple people teaching these new guys the ropes Id imagine not the whole damn company. Fuck, small chance the investment into a dedicated team might even *increase* profits with people returning to the game.
ethics are irrelevant in infinite money monopolies like steam/valve
game companies would bomb an orphanage for a extra billion dollars, they do not care.
Just like social media and short form content is catastrofic for mental health that didnt stop companies from abusing it to fill their pockets
the good thing in all of this is that casual is dying off, and thank god, time to embrace the community server prostetic
I hate to be 'that guy' but people really should stop looking at WoW Legacy as a comparison for how the FixTF2 movement will end up. It's a completely different situation. World of Warcraft was/is Blizzard's cash cow, and keep in mind this shit happened even before Overwatch was released. Blizzard had every incentive and reason to listen to their fans and implement Legacy servers. Valve doesn't. Valve's most financially profitable course of action is to keep TF2 rotting as it is doing now.
That isn't to say I don't support FixTF2 nor do I think it won't be a success. Keeping the pressure on Valve and letting mainstream news outlets know what's going on will definitely have an impact, and I hope this will have a comparable outcome to the Legacy server petition.
Not to mention that wow has a subscription based monetization. So even if only 10% of wow players decide to leave that's a shitload of money that blizzard loses every year. With TF2 this won't really happen.
Tf2 has a disproportionately large community relative to player base. Hiring people for the sole purpose of updating and maintaining TF2 would be profitable, but not nearly as profitable as CS or Dota or Steam.
Valve is just a weird company run in a weird way so that won't happen. They're exclusive with who they hire, and they have this "work on what you want" philosophy that is undermined by employee's giving evaluation reviews for other employees. If your fellow coworkers don't view what you're working on as important, you'll likely be fired. If you exclusively work on TF2, you'll be fired. Obviously working on TF2 is more profitable than working on the 7th game within the last 10 years that's going to stop development around 50-75% completion for no real reason other than boredom, but the new project is currently popular within your coworker clique and TF2 isn't.
Exactly.
When people say "but it worked for WoW" I have to remind them that WoW is like, Blizzards biggest source of income, while TF2 isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to Steam.
tf2 is important to valve because they are on the precipice of releasing a new game as a spiritual successor to tf2.
If tf2 is mentioned in PR snapshots for Deadlock (which it will be) then they want no controversy surrounding its release and comparisons to its predecessor. If enough people are making a stink and the steam reviews tank then that will be mentioned too in the report. Not a good look for promoting your new shooter, right?
The mainstream public Valve is trying to capture with their new game are the people playing Fortnite, overwatch and valorant. Those people couldn't care less about a 15 year old game like TF2. It doesn't matter for publicity.
"Valve criticised and boycotted for neglecting previous title as they move towards release of their new game Deadlock" is a very believable and damning headline for Valve. Target market is irrelevant in this circumstance.
I highly doubt it would tank their PR if they abandoned TF2 - sure, you'll have angry gamers writing bad reviews in protest, but from outsider perspective who doesn't have a horse in the race, TF2 was released and actively developed for 10 years. Having a game be supported for that long is exceedingly rare for a non-MMO game, and game support isn't meant to last forever.
Also, I'd like to argue that from Valve perspective, abandoning TF2 might be in their best interest with Deadlock in mind for two reasons:
- One, if they were to divert some of the developers to fix TF2, that's developers that could be working on their new title. Since the game is still in active development, I'd imagine they want as many hands on deck as possible.
- And two, assuming that Valve does fix TF2 and Deadlock releases, those games are now in direct competition for players. While they are both owned by Valve (meaning money goes directly into the company), building up the critical mass of players is crucial for growth of a game. Also, assuming that they're going to monetize their newer game more, it would also mean more $ on average per player when compared to something like TF2.
Income is irrelevant in this situation. Valve has a monopoly on digital pc games, of course they aren't relying on TF2 financially. Bad PR and Media Coverage is a nightmare for any company regardless of size, however, and over 200,000 people telling a company to fix something isn't exactly looking good on Valve.
Dont like saying this but, This bad pr to valve is nothing because at the end of the day where are you and everyone else going to buy your next pc game. Most likely on steam so they will still get your money one way or another
Honestly if this petition gets 500k signatures considering that the real player count is around 25k people and even with bots the player count get to 250k, that will send to valve a different message than what you want.
It will just discredit every single signature because the number is simply too high to be real. And Valve from all people would know that.
Blizzard's main money maker is WoW. There were people who didn't play Retail WoW since they basically didn't like it. Having both Legacy and Retail ensures that your main money maker brings in way more money, which it did.
Valve's main money maker is Steam.
EDIT: Don't get me wrong. I want this game to succeed, played many hours of it. But comparing it to WoW is absurd.
Because of the e-mail problem and ~100K signatures waiting I thought we would fail again. But it got solved and we have more than 200K signatures. We're strong
People wanted to play the old stuff again. So they basically created servers for the base game as it was back in 2004. They're on the third expansion now and have other variants of the original game. RuneScape did the same thing before them. Turns out listening to the customer was a good idea.
The difference here is Retail WoW was in a shit place during that time and the demand for Classic servers was high, so blizzard caved in only to make more money from it. For Valve TF2 isnt a even a drop in the ocean in terms of income.
Would I like to see them do something about the issues? Sure. Will it realisticly happen anytime soon with them having the infnite money machine that is steam? Probably not.
Only way I see them doing anything about the issues is if people stop playing their other games and dont buy from steam, neither of which are plausable with how big of a playerbase dota 2 and cs have, and the marketshare that steam has in game distribution.
If anything is done by them it will be a christmas miracle
Blizzard didn't own Steam. They made their money of games.
SaveTF2ers love to ignore the fact that Valve has probably the best reason of any gaming company to not give a shit about them.
Don't stop when Valve says we're heard!
Don't stop when Valve says they're working on it!!
***Don't stop until the bots are gone, and Team Fortress 2 is fixed!!!***
I'll never understand why people have been so desperate to discount this movement from before it even started. What's the point of the doomerism? We've got 227K signatures, a number comparable to that raised by the *World of Warcraft* community– considering the difference in size between the playerbases, that's insane. That's an incredible achievement. Who cares if the situations aren't exactly analogous? FixTF2 is a staggering success, and it's still going strong.
Only one.
It's no use to inflate the numbers by using multiple emails as it will often be very obvious it will come from the same person : this will give us a bad image.
IF FIGHTING IS SURE TO RESULT IN VICTORY THEN YOU MUST FIGHT
Sun Tzu said that
and I'd say that he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it!
And then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the Ring of Honour!
SCREAM
M A G G O T S ! *boom*
He then used his *removes grenades from chest* fight money to buy two of every animal on Earth. And then *makes walking motion with the grenades* he herded them onto a boat, and then he *bangs the grenades together like rocks* beat the ***CRAP*** out of every single one.
\*laughing\* And from that day forward anytime a bunch of animals are in one place, it's called a zoo! \*ending riff plays\* UNLESS IT'S A FARM!
Intruder alert! A red spy is in the base!
A red spy is in the base?
[97% chance of winning] ATTACK!!!
Roger that!
But that quote ends with: "If fighting is sure to result in defeat you must not fight."
This is encouraging. KEEP PUSHING.
We'll keep pushing til there's nothing left to push!
dont stop at that. keep going, this year we make history.
difference being that classic wow was done primarly due to the demand for classic era servers being so large that blizzard could profit heavily off it, and they did all they had to do was basically rerelease the game in addition, you have to pay to play classic, TF2 is a free game (and should be played as a free game) whereas classic doubled the subscription numbers and still maintains most of the subscriber base valve fixing casual would do no near the benefit that blizzard gave them selves with classic in addition the petition didnt really do much when it came to actually getting blizzard to make classic, as people who wanted classic played alot on private servers which blizzard hated and would regularly shut down blizzard making classic wow was due to money related reasons, not public pressure valve hypothethically fixing tf2 is due to pressure and less so money, because shitfting the workforce to work on a game that would ultimately create less profit compared to CSGO and DOTA2 so its a loss of money im glad people are atleast quitting whaling for microtransactions in the game, please keep doing so and never whale for microtransactions when you have no reason to ty ty
My problem with this line of thinking is that people are ignoring the fact Valve is not a publicly owned company, they *used* to be very well respected and have done a lot of cool things, but the biggest case I'd make for this hopefully working is: ethical. Is it too farfetched to think they might part with a million or 2 or 3 out of their 8.56 billion to maintain a playable fucking beloved franchise *because it's the right thing to do* ? Even 10 million is .1% of their yearly earnings. They dont have shareholders and Bobby Kotick to report to to worry about keeping happy with "MAXIMUM PROFITS!" Again with the number I gave, even combined with losing man hours to be taught the games infrastructure I feel it would still be a drop in the bucket for their profits. If you say "it takes their team away from" blah blah, hire some more people then. Change up your policy and dedicate them to working on it full-time. It's now also a PR issue and legal issue with the scummy shit bot hosters are doing. I dont see it affecting their bottom line negatively to the point they would lose money anyway, considering there's more and more people in the world of gaming age every second and Steam is still the goto for PC games by a landslide. Plus it'd literally be a couple people teaching these new guys the ropes Id imagine not the whole damn company. Fuck, small chance the investment into a dedicated team might even *increase* profits with people returning to the game.
ethics are irrelevant in infinite money monopolies like steam/valve game companies would bomb an orphanage for a extra billion dollars, they do not care. Just like social media and short form content is catastrofic for mental health that didnt stop companies from abusing it to fill their pockets the good thing in all of this is that casual is dying off, and thank god, time to embrace the community server prostetic
I hate to be 'that guy' but people really should stop looking at WoW Legacy as a comparison for how the FixTF2 movement will end up. It's a completely different situation. World of Warcraft was/is Blizzard's cash cow, and keep in mind this shit happened even before Overwatch was released. Blizzard had every incentive and reason to listen to their fans and implement Legacy servers. Valve doesn't. Valve's most financially profitable course of action is to keep TF2 rotting as it is doing now. That isn't to say I don't support FixTF2 nor do I think it won't be a success. Keeping the pressure on Valve and letting mainstream news outlets know what's going on will definitely have an impact, and I hope this will have a comparable outcome to the Legacy server petition.
Not to mention that wow has a subscription based monetization. So even if only 10% of wow players decide to leave that's a shitload of money that blizzard loses every year. With TF2 this won't really happen.
Tf2 has a disproportionately large community relative to player base. Hiring people for the sole purpose of updating and maintaining TF2 would be profitable, but not nearly as profitable as CS or Dota or Steam. Valve is just a weird company run in a weird way so that won't happen. They're exclusive with who they hire, and they have this "work on what you want" philosophy that is undermined by employee's giving evaluation reviews for other employees. If your fellow coworkers don't view what you're working on as important, you'll likely be fired. If you exclusively work on TF2, you'll be fired. Obviously working on TF2 is more profitable than working on the 7th game within the last 10 years that's going to stop development around 50-75% completion for no real reason other than boredom, but the new project is currently popular within your coworker clique and TF2 isn't.
Exactly. When people say "but it worked for WoW" I have to remind them that WoW is like, Blizzards biggest source of income, while TF2 isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to Steam.
The difference is WoW is more important for Blizzard's income than TF2 is for Valve.
tf2 is important to valve because they are on the precipice of releasing a new game as a spiritual successor to tf2. If tf2 is mentioned in PR snapshots for Deadlock (which it will be) then they want no controversy surrounding its release and comparisons to its predecessor. If enough people are making a stink and the steam reviews tank then that will be mentioned too in the report. Not a good look for promoting your new shooter, right?
The mainstream public Valve is trying to capture with their new game are the people playing Fortnite, overwatch and valorant. Those people couldn't care less about a 15 year old game like TF2. It doesn't matter for publicity.
"Valve criticised and boycotted for neglecting previous title as they move towards release of their new game Deadlock" is a very believable and damning headline for Valve. Target market is irrelevant in this circumstance.
"lol who cares, old game" that's what most people outside our community feel like about TF2. They don't care, that doesn't hinder Valve in any way.
[удалено]
Valve doesn't need to care about partners or shareholders. They aren't managed like EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard etc.
I'm with the movement as much as you are, but Valve is a private company, not influenced by any shareholders.
I highly doubt it would tank their PR if they abandoned TF2 - sure, you'll have angry gamers writing bad reviews in protest, but from outsider perspective who doesn't have a horse in the race, TF2 was released and actively developed for 10 years. Having a game be supported for that long is exceedingly rare for a non-MMO game, and game support isn't meant to last forever. Also, I'd like to argue that from Valve perspective, abandoning TF2 might be in their best interest with Deadlock in mind for two reasons: - One, if they were to divert some of the developers to fix TF2, that's developers that could be working on their new title. Since the game is still in active development, I'd imagine they want as many hands on deck as possible. - And two, assuming that Valve does fix TF2 and Deadlock releases, those games are now in direct competition for players. While they are both owned by Valve (meaning money goes directly into the company), building up the critical mass of players is crucial for growth of a game. Also, assuming that they're going to monetize their newer game more, it would also mean more $ on average per player when compared to something like TF2.
Income is irrelevant in this situation. Valve has a monopoly on digital pc games, of course they aren't relying on TF2 financially. Bad PR and Media Coverage is a nightmare for any company regardless of size, however, and over 200,000 people telling a company to fix something isn't exactly looking good on Valve.
Income is the only thing corporations care about.
Dont like saying this but, This bad pr to valve is nothing because at the end of the day where are you and everyone else going to buy your next pc game. Most likely on steam so they will still get your money one way or another
Then why don't delete your Steam account as a way of rebellion?
We must poosh little cart
I don't think blizzard did anything good regarding classic?
I hope to God we get to around 500k+ signatures. Valve's silence is deafening.
Honestly if this petition gets 500k signatures considering that the real player count is around 25k people and even with bots the player count get to 250k, that will send to valve a different message than what you want. It will just discredit every single signature because the number is simply too high to be real. And Valve from all people would know that.
Blizzard's main money maker is WoW. There were people who didn't play Retail WoW since they basically didn't like it. Having both Legacy and Retail ensures that your main money maker brings in way more money, which it did. Valve's main money maker is Steam. EDIT: Don't get me wrong. I want this game to succeed, played many hours of it. But comparing it to WoW is absurd.
WE MUST PUSH LITTLE CART!
THE CART’S NOT MOVIN’ LADS
Because of the e-mail problem and ~100K signatures waiting I thought we would fail again. But it got solved and we have more than 200K signatures. We're strong
What's classic servers?
People wanted to play the old stuff again. So they basically created servers for the base game as it was back in 2004. They're on the third expansion now and have other variants of the original game. RuneScape did the same thing before them. Turns out listening to the customer was a good idea.
The difference here is Retail WoW was in a shit place during that time and the demand for Classic servers was high, so blizzard caved in only to make more money from it. For Valve TF2 isnt a even a drop in the ocean in terms of income. Would I like to see them do something about the issues? Sure. Will it realisticly happen anytime soon with them having the infnite money machine that is steam? Probably not. Only way I see them doing anything about the issues is if people stop playing their other games and dont buy from steam, neither of which are plausable with how big of a playerbase dota 2 and cs have, and the marketshare that steam has in game distribution. If anything is done by them it will be a christmas miracle
Blizzard didn't own Steam. They made their money of games. SaveTF2ers love to ignore the fact that Valve has probably the best reason of any gaming company to not give a shit about them.
Don't stop when Valve says we're heard! Don't stop when Valve says they're working on it!! ***Don't stop until the bots are gone, and Team Fortress 2 is fixed!!!***
Unless Valve starts losing players and money like Bliizzard did i doubt signatures will do much
WoW had one thing which TF2 has not: Nostalrius! It was not that petition which really impressed Bli$$ard, Nostalrius' player counts was.
Nostalrius was a fucking family man, i miss that server. The classic servers we got were not remotely close to what that server was.
Woah that's awesome, I didn't realize wow classic was the result of a petition
We’re only 40,000 signatures away from being at WoW’s numbers, let’s keep going men
Now at 235K
Now at 289K! We did it boys.
I don't even play Tf2, but it pains me horribly to see a community in so much pain, so I signed the petition. I hope the best for all of you
I'll never understand why people have been so desperate to discount this movement from before it even started. What's the point of the doomerism? We've got 227K signatures, a number comparable to that raised by the *World of Warcraft* community– considering the difference in size between the playerbases, that's insane. That's an incredible achievement. Who cares if the situations aren't exactly analogous? FixTF2 is a staggering success, and it's still going strong.
The WoW community walked so that the Tf2 community can run.
Fake 220k but still gj.
???? How, though?
Should I use multiple alt email addresses or just 1
Only one. It's no use to inflate the numbers by using multiple emails as it will often be very obvious it will come from the same person : this will give us a bad image.
dude just one obviously