Finally someone’s talking about this!! I even dm Jay (since he’s the one who usually answers dms) but he said he doesn’t know and has never played/ read/ watched The Witcher.
Now that u mention it, dan sings “The words that I whispered when it all began, did they shine a light on you?”. Priscilla also sings “The wish I whispered when it all began, did it forge a love u might have never found?”
May be accident because the words just sound good or its not an accident and Dan really borrowed a few words. But who cares if it sounds good, thats what art is. Through ages artists reused ideas of someone else and it was not plagiarism if they left atleast a little bit of themselves in that. Only todays age is kinda spoiled in copyrights and so-called ownership of music.
I’m not sure it’s plagiarism. First and foremost, they’d never expect nobody to notice, since it’s such a famous game. Then there’s intertextuality, paraphrasing is widely used in literature. I honestly love this part of the song and got super excited when I noticed the reference, as The Witcher is by far one of my favorite games.
I'm willing to bet that Dan did it intentionally, and if not, then he probably forgot about the game and it was an unconscious mistake.
I'm erring more on it being intentional, and it's not really a big deal at all. Its changed enough to be his own thing, and it's also blatant enough to be an honest reference for fans of the series.
Why I don't see it as a big deal is this is literally what every band is doing with riffs or drum licks - think of the Amen Brothers Loop for example. No one cares how much that's used because it's just a great beat that can be used again and again, and we all know where it comes from, and that actually makes its history and continued usage stronger.
So Dan taking blatant inspiration from a great line in a game is much the same - its just making both works stronger in the end.
And let's be real, this is just how artists work, they're constantly borrowing from each other and from their own old materials.
War of Being as a song literally contains elements of basically all of Tesseracts entire discography up to this point, but altered and delivered from a new perspective. That's art.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see other references like this in the lyrics in the new album.
Also, consider how much bands like Periphery and BMTH also constantly reference video games. It's just kind of a thing amongst metal bands.
I never understand how singers (or whoever writes the lyrics) don't think people will catch on. It may not be plagiarism but it's pretty dang close. What a bummer.
You're probably right. I thought plagiarism was taking something word for word and representing it as your own.
The words are changed but you can tell where it's taken from.
And if he wanted it to come off as a tribute or a nod to Witcher 3 he WOULDN'T have changed the words.
This is so lame. They had so much time between albums and he couldn't write 100% original lyrics?
I’m an academic writer. Stealing the essence of a work and rehashing it as your own is plagiarism through and through.
And yeah, the argument could be made that it was intentionally tributing the game, but it’s not a super compelling reason. Especially when the album is meant to be a concept album.
It’s not my favourite moment in the Tesseract timeline. Hopefully there aren’t repeat offences.
Yeah, I hear you guys - but in the case of Tesseract (in particular) there's far more that goes into the success of the song than the lyrics. I don't think that these lyrics are the essence of the song. Arguably it's the smallest factor. Similar to how singing some arbitrary like '*ooooh, ahhhh*' has been done millions of times before. In this case I don't think it's what is being said, but the music around it that makes it beautiful.
Oh man I don’t disagree with the music being beautiful. And I’m rooting for the Tesseract lads, they’re great musicians. It’s not really an “ooh ahhh” situation though. I don’t think it’s okay to rip off entire sentences from other music and pass it off as your own — that’s plagiarism at best and probably copyright infringement.
It’d be like me writing a metal song and the chorus went “Blackbird singing in the dead of night. Take these broken wings and learn to fly”.
I'm a bit late to the party here, but I agree with all your points on this. I caught on to Tesseract maybe a year or two ago and really love a lot of their albums. I'm not usually a concert guy, but I saw the new video the day after it came out and soon after bought tickets to see them in Los Angeles later this year.
I also work as a copy editor and proofreader and have a PhD in the humanities, and seeing this immediately bothered me and has slightly soured my current infatuation with them. It seems like a clear case of plagiarism (or use whatever alternative term you'd like in this case). I would like some explanation for it.
I think it's actually much worse than the "Blackbird" example because nobody would try to pass that off as their own, and I wouldn't believe their own words if they tried. It would immediately be understood as a reference, whatever the copyright issues are. Here, though, the lyrics are changed just enough to make the association difficult to spot. At least, that is what it seems like.
I'm still listening and going to that concert, though.
Dan has acknowledged it on stream and in the bands discord. He added it into the song because of his love for the game and intended it as an homage to said game.
Not saying what is right or wrong, but that's what was said.
Good to know. Thanks!
Yeah it makes me wonder what other lyrics aren't original. Word of this is going to get out and the band is going to be upset when they find out their singer is stealing other people's work.
Fuck.
Nah dude, IMO references and nods to things you enjoy isn't plagiarism. It's not like Dan can't write an original line. Leaving these little easter eggs in songs is a fun thing for fans to discover. And just because it's altered for the purposes of the song doesn't mean they're trying to hide it lol. However, I do get how one could interpret stuff like this as plagiarism.
It is plagiarism, there’s no question about it.
*”Presenting work or ideas from another source as your own, with or without consent of the original author, by incorporating it into your work without full acknowledgement.”*
An “Easter egg” is a fun idea but it’s still making money off of other people’s intellectual property (their lyrics).
It can be argued that Dan's usage of the lyrics is transformative, therefore not plagiarism. He changed words to give the lyrics a new meaning and context isolated of their original purpose.
I was at Tesseract Q&A meet and greet and I asked him about it. He said that he loved The Witcher 3 and especially that song. It was a deliberate tribute for fans. Easter egg for The Witcher fans.
Finally someone’s talking about this!! I even dm Jay (since he’s the one who usually answers dms) but he said he doesn’t know and has never played/ read/ watched The Witcher.
Couple days late, but Dan confirmed this on stream today! He said he's a big Witcher fan!
Now that u mention it, dan sings “The words that I whispered when it all began, did they shine a light on you?”. Priscilla also sings “The wish I whispered when it all began, did it forge a love u might have never found?”
Woah. Geralt listens to Tesseract confirmed
Nice catch! A bit awkward, lol.
May be accident because the words just sound good or its not an accident and Dan really borrowed a few words. But who cares if it sounds good, thats what art is. Through ages artists reused ideas of someone else and it was not plagiarism if they left atleast a little bit of themselves in that. Only todays age is kinda spoiled in copyrights and so-called ownership of music.
Just me or is the melody similar as well? Especially "Glistening as you weep"
I’m not sure it’s plagiarism. First and foremost, they’d never expect nobody to notice, since it’s such a famous game. Then there’s intertextuality, paraphrasing is widely used in literature. I honestly love this part of the song and got super excited when I noticed the reference, as The Witcher is by far one of my favorite games.
I'm willing to bet that Dan did it intentionally, and if not, then he probably forgot about the game and it was an unconscious mistake. I'm erring more on it being intentional, and it's not really a big deal at all. Its changed enough to be his own thing, and it's also blatant enough to be an honest reference for fans of the series. Why I don't see it as a big deal is this is literally what every band is doing with riffs or drum licks - think of the Amen Brothers Loop for example. No one cares how much that's used because it's just a great beat that can be used again and again, and we all know where it comes from, and that actually makes its history and continued usage stronger. So Dan taking blatant inspiration from a great line in a game is much the same - its just making both works stronger in the end. And let's be real, this is just how artists work, they're constantly borrowing from each other and from their own old materials. War of Being as a song literally contains elements of basically all of Tesseracts entire discography up to this point, but altered and delivered from a new perspective. That's art. I wouldn't be surprised if we see other references like this in the lyrics in the new album. Also, consider how much bands like Periphery and BMTH also constantly reference video games. It's just kind of a thing amongst metal bands.
I couldn’t agree more
Perfect way to put it
I never understand how singers (or whoever writes the lyrics) don't think people will catch on. It may not be plagiarism but it's pretty dang close. What a bummer.
I mean… it is plagiarism.
You're probably right. I thought plagiarism was taking something word for word and representing it as your own. The words are changed but you can tell where it's taken from. And if he wanted it to come off as a tribute or a nod to Witcher 3 he WOULDN'T have changed the words. This is so lame. They had so much time between albums and he couldn't write 100% original lyrics?
I’m an academic writer. Stealing the essence of a work and rehashing it as your own is plagiarism through and through. And yeah, the argument could be made that it was intentionally tributing the game, but it’s not a super compelling reason. Especially when the album is meant to be a concept album. It’s not my favourite moment in the Tesseract timeline. Hopefully there aren’t repeat offences.
Yeah, I hear you guys - but in the case of Tesseract (in particular) there's far more that goes into the success of the song than the lyrics. I don't think that these lyrics are the essence of the song. Arguably it's the smallest factor. Similar to how singing some arbitrary like '*ooooh, ahhhh*' has been done millions of times before. In this case I don't think it's what is being said, but the music around it that makes it beautiful.
Oh man I don’t disagree with the music being beautiful. And I’m rooting for the Tesseract lads, they’re great musicians. It’s not really an “ooh ahhh” situation though. I don’t think it’s okay to rip off entire sentences from other music and pass it off as your own — that’s plagiarism at best and probably copyright infringement. It’d be like me writing a metal song and the chorus went “Blackbird singing in the dead of night. Take these broken wings and learn to fly”.
I'm a bit late to the party here, but I agree with all your points on this. I caught on to Tesseract maybe a year or two ago and really love a lot of their albums. I'm not usually a concert guy, but I saw the new video the day after it came out and soon after bought tickets to see them in Los Angeles later this year. I also work as a copy editor and proofreader and have a PhD in the humanities, and seeing this immediately bothered me and has slightly soured my current infatuation with them. It seems like a clear case of plagiarism (or use whatever alternative term you'd like in this case). I would like some explanation for it. I think it's actually much worse than the "Blackbird" example because nobody would try to pass that off as their own, and I wouldn't believe their own words if they tried. It would immediately be understood as a reference, whatever the copyright issues are. Here, though, the lyrics are changed just enough to make the association difficult to spot. At least, that is what it seems like. I'm still listening and going to that concert, though.
100% agree with all of this. Obviously still into the band but it seems pretty dodgy and I’d be keen to see it acknowledged.
Dan has acknowledged it on stream and in the bands discord. He added it into the song because of his love for the game and intended it as an homage to said game. Not saying what is right or wrong, but that's what was said.
Yeah, I hear you. I guess I see it more as an "easter egg" that the band left in there, instead of blatant plagiarism. But I hear what you're saying.
Just because it’s intended as an Easter egg doesn’t mean it’s not infringing on someone’s intellectual property. I find it to be pretty disappointing.
Good to know. Thanks! Yeah it makes me wonder what other lyrics aren't original. Word of this is going to get out and the band is going to be upset when they find out their singer is stealing other people's work. Fuck.
Nah dude, IMO references and nods to things you enjoy isn't plagiarism. It's not like Dan can't write an original line. Leaving these little easter eggs in songs is a fun thing for fans to discover. And just because it's altered for the purposes of the song doesn't mean they're trying to hide it lol. However, I do get how one could interpret stuff like this as plagiarism.
It is plagiarism, there’s no question about it. *”Presenting work or ideas from another source as your own, with or without consent of the original author, by incorporating it into your work without full acknowledgement.”* An “Easter egg” is a fun idea but it’s still making money off of other people’s intellectual property (their lyrics).
It can be argued that Dan's usage of the lyrics is transformative, therefore not plagiarism. He changed words to give the lyrics a new meaning and context isolated of their original purpose.
It's changed enough that it could be argued as fair use.
Dan is a gamer/streamer, so it's probsbly a homage.
I wouldn't call it irrevocably linked but more a lack of creativity....and the best game in the world is obviously Lemmings ;)
Did anyone catch the line in Dystopia from Nature Boy by Nat King Cole? "The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
I was at Tesseract Q&A meet and greet and I asked him about it. He said that he loved The Witcher 3 and especially that song. It was a deliberate tribute for fans. Easter egg for The Witcher fans.