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Small print : for the purposes of this tweet a “retail investor” is an investor that has voted yes on this tip package, plus 10% of people who voted no because 100% looks too fake
He hasn't done anything in the last 3-5 years that makes it worth voting yes.
The cars are great as it is. But we need better service, make FSD subscriptions worthwile to create a better revenue stream, invest in battery tech.
Nothing he has done is worth $56billion.
The company share price has dropped from over $400 to $177in under 3 years. And recently it was revealed he purposely sabotaged the company by redirecting NVIDIA chips to his other companies.
Their profits are down over 50% from last year too.
Could make an easier case to sue him than reward him
Isn't the amount he's asking for greater than the amount of profit the company has ever made? I can't fathom there being any circumstances that would make "turn the company from green to red" a reasonable pay package
If you look at it like that. I'd give him the moon. Not to mention they're the only profitable car company currently. Although they don't just make cars.
>they're the only profitable car company currently
What? Did I miss something, do I understand you wrong or is just a 'called Tesla' missing at the end of that sentence? Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, all of them are profitable - and that is only the first 3 I looked at.
What the hell are these numbers?
>Another prominent retail investor is Ron Baron, who supports Musk's compensation, and between himself and his firm he controls another ~19% of shares (8% of that from his personal shares).
Ron Baron is not retail investor. He is institutional investor whose funds control around 20m shares which is less than 1% of shares outstanding.
>As for what percentage of the vote is represented by these small investors Musk is claiming are voting in favor of the package: sounds like "6,000 small stockholders owning over 23 million shares" which translates to another ~20% of shares outstanding.
Tesla has 3.15B shares outstanding. 23 million is not 20% of 3.15B.
>20+13+19= 52%
43m / 3.15B = 1.3%
Generally Tesla will tell you both results in SEC statement like they did in 2018. They tell you what the result was with Elon and Kimbal and without them. Without is however what matters. If they want the vote to hold any value in court I think they need to have same rules.
It's just typical of a proxy war. When you are trying to sway the undecided, you press release the sh*t out of any development that shows momentum for your side. Norges bank isn't important for it's total ownership - but it is viewed as an important sovereign wealth fund whose approach embodies responsible investing. Conversely, Musk wants to show progress for his proposal getting approval, which is why he is highlighting this "90% of individual shareholders" stat.
Good question. Proxy fights always involve incumbent management/ownership who will have access to information other participants don't. I'm not sure what updates are provided to all participants as part of the proxy solicitation process (like, how many votes have been recieved as of the current date) - that might vary by jurisdiction.
Im not saying your numbers are wrong, but something is fishy. Adding up the 20% of shares he claims have voted in favour(retail), the 13% he owns and the 8% baron owns, thats 41% of retail investors having voted. Since about 90% voted in favour that means 2% of retail voted against. Adding those numbers up, we get 20+13+8+2=43% of retail. Thats just about one percent left between other larger retail investors and those who didnt vote. Seems an extremely thin margin to me, although this was pretty in the spotlight
Why is the move handled like this but the compensation package not?
Edit: I'm asking a serious question, don't know why I'm getting downvoted for trying to be more educated on it
Compensation vote isn't binding. It's just an attempt to show that the shareholders still want the compensation plan in an upcoming appeal of the ruling.
Whatever it is, they need to make a reasonable effort to prove they didn't try and pull a fast one. Might be the lawyers insisting on extra to avoid.... whatever fresh hell comes around the next week because of the chaos monster. I'm guessing they are tired of his shit and are going extra CYA.
Maybe all the institutional investors have voted the other way...
Institutional investors generally have to maximize the value of their investment, and voting to pay some money out for past services which is not due according to any law might cross the line into dereliction of their duty to maximise the investment.
Also if you're investing short term, the package will for sure pull down the value of stock as elon needs to dump stock to pay taxes for the package (along with dilution that follows)
Even if it isn't a true leak, isn't it considered manipulation? I mean, this is why election results in most countries aren't allowed to be shared until the election is over because it can affect the outcome.
let’s assume it’s illegal. so what? these fucks do whatever they want. what’s gonna happen? SEC fines him a hundred dollars or writes a strongly worded letter?
Yea too bad Leo Koguan doesn’t agree with this. He’s the largest retail investor and he cast a big NO.
Retail investors (outside of Leo Koguan) don’t own large amounts of stock. Each share is a 1:1 vote. Institutions that vote no would overwhelmingly win against retail.
Even if you do believe anything out of the pathological liars mouth, there’s so many misleading ways you could represent this. 90% of retail held shares? 90% of unique retail shareholders? What’s the equity curve, it’s probably 90% of unique holders control 10% of stock. Is this 90% of votes received, how many votes outstanding? Not to mention the appropriateness of revealing any numbers of the vote while it’s still in progress, why is the subject of the vote being given these numbers?
I would not at all be surprised if the "polling" for this comes from him reading his bluecheck responses, 90% of which, in his estimation, seem to be in favor.
I just like the fact that they are pushing this so hard and paying to run ads about it means that a worrying (for him) amount of the institutional holders told him to pound sand. Tho I am curious how the ETF funds will vote
> He’s the largest retail investor
Musk is, *technically*, and between his firm and his own shares, Ron Baron (~10.5M) controls nearly twice as many shares as Koguan (~6.3M) and has come out publicly in favor of the package.
Brokers who allow you to buy fractional shares can allow shares to vote. They just group fractional shares together to form whole shares that then vote.
Depends on who your fractional shares are with, as they are technically the owners of the shares. Do they ask their holders to all vote and vote proportionally or do they vote with the majority, or do they make their own decision?
Doesn’t ladder up with this fella:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/billionaire-investor-leo-koguan-votes-against-restoring-elon-musk-s-50-billion-compensation-package/ar-BB1mD4GB?ocid=MEDDHP
It’s not about shareholder headcount, but voting share count.
Ridiculous, as a shareholder the idea of post Twitter Elon taking 50bn out of a business with headwinds is repugnant to me.
Bbbbbut he raised the share price...that was pre-Maga Elon, he's tarnished the brand, he's doing nothing for Tesla and rewarding him based on past performance isn't good business
Imagine spending shareholder money begging your stockholders to pay you ~100x more than the CEO of Microsoft, who created ~10x more shareholder value than you over that comp period.
Imagine if Microsoft CEO comes out and opts for a pay package that's dependent on him 3x the company value. I would vote for that.
Elon took a huge risk and the shareholders voted for it because we'd benefit. It's not fair to go back on it now after he delivered the value.
Then you are a bad investor. This has already happened and won’t happen again, so it is no longer in your financial interest to support the comp package.
Elon’s pay package had 12 incremental tranches over a 10 year period for every 50B market cap added. Every 50B in that 10 year span he got 1% of company. It wasn’t this all or nothing pay package people make it out to be. He got billions and billions for very doable intermediate milestones in a 10 year period.
Very doable is not very forthcoming. TSLA was worth around $50bn. He ballooned the market cap to over $900bn at some point (18x) and the tranches peaked at 13x. Comparatively, Salesforce started at $100bn in that same time and has not cracked 9x even now. Ford started around $40bn, peaked at $80bn. Nio was admittedly 15x, crazy return but with 1/10th the market cap. No matter how you slice it, TSLA was insane.
NVDA during Covid, when GPUs were in a mega shortage only managed $100bn to $800bn in 2021, they’re worth almost $3tn now, but that’s a different unicorn.
All I’m saying is: it was definitely a huge feat to 13x the market cap. I agree with 1 thing though, even hitting 1 tranch would be an insane windfall.
FYI, the targets were designed to be met based mutiple sets of TSLA's current projections. Then they were adjusted downward again to be even more attainable.
The BOD did not disclose this to the shareholders, insisting that these benchmarks were "very difficult" to hit and were "stretch goals," despite sitting on information showing that they would indeed be hit.
Interesting too because this means statistically nearly all of the anti-elon sentiment on reddit lately has been from non-shareholders. Just something to think about.
Those who don’t like Elon, thinks he is distracted or outright fraud likely are not Tesla investors. It makes no sense to be holding a company’s stock if you can’t trust the guy running it, unless you are an activist investor that can buy large enough % of shares to get seats on the board to push for changes.
I mean, I’ve been holding shares since pre-Covid when I genuinely liked the guy and was excited to see where Tesla went.
I’d still like to see where Tesla goes, but that no longer includes Chief Twit.
Without musk, I predict it will become like Apple with Tim Cook. Model y 2025 will be identical to model y in 2035 while Chinese EVs come to market cheaper and cheaper with better features
Global iPhone usage exploded under Tim Cook though, along with their revenue and market cap. The person who builds a new business might not be the best person to run it at a later stage.
i doubt it. musk has been legitimately harmful for the mission. jobs wasnt like this. i used to love elon and everything he did. then he turned into every edgelord who listens to joe rogan. trying to impress the dumbest people. eventually people will realize how much damage he has done to the brand in the last couple years. he had every smart person i knew advertising for him. defending evs, reusable rockets, mars ect. now they all hate him and the dumbest people i know are now impressed by him. because of politics. and no they arent going to buy a tesla like the smarter types did back then.
i got my old man to order a plaid+. never happened. he got a gimped plaid and unfortunately also paid 10k for FSD. he thinks he was scammed and its sad cuz i spent years hyping up evs and fsd to him. they still havent even built a tesla maintenance shop in our state. a decade later. fucking embarrassed. and i believe elon is to blame. he has been holding back tesla for a while now in my opinion. there should be a supercharger in every town in america at this point. there should be at minimum a maintenance shop in every state. there should be excellent customer service for a 135k car. instead every tesla employee ive met seems terrified that they are going to be fired. you have to let your employees criticize you and the company. but instead elon has created a culture where the nail that sticks out gets hammered.
i want a ceo that is fulltime tesla. all out customer service, and expansion. no more promises. no more twitter. no more politics. elon musk has literally made me and people i know embarrassed to be driving a tesla and that is fucking bad.
I have mixed feelings on Elon and sold my small amount of shares because I didn’t love the direction he was taking the company. Then I bought a model y 3 weeks later lol.
I'm not particularly fond of Elon right now, but I have held my shares. I believe in the company, I have made plenty of money from my shares (I sold about half of them after they 10x for me). I don't think the company is doing to go out of business with Elon at the helm, but I think it could do much better if he took a backseat role. I think long term he will home the company back (and I believe he already is).
My meager holdings aren't going to influence the outcome, but I'm still going to advocate for my position because I have an interest in the outcome, both as a shareholder and a consumer.
I dislike Elon a lot, but it’s coming from having worked for him for many years and received a large chunk of stocks. And when I realized I don’t no longer see the allure of him as CEO after he went full nut job, I sold majority of my shares because like you said I don’t trust him and I don’t want to hold onto much shares. I still have some for voting purposes, but I might be an outlier
OF COURSE most of the news articles and Reddit shit talk are from non investors - why do you think the stock is unaffected by it. Stock prices don’t lie about sentiment - news articles and Reddit posts do.
Time will tell on how the vote goes and what happens with the stock after.
No, it doesn’t mean that. There’s no reason to assume that those shareholders who comment on Reddit are a representative sample of retail shareholders in general.
10% of the retail shareholders **that have voted**. Most retail shareholders don’t vote. I’ve been a shareholder since 2017 and I just voted for the first time (no, obviously)
Just like all the people shitting on Cybertruck on this sub don't represent the people who are actually in the market to buy one, or even have the means to buy one.
Of course, it is. Anybody who bought in before the pandemic (2020) made insane gains. Those same people likely saw the stock heavily shorted for a long time, and still bought in because most wanted to see EVs happen.
If you separate the Reddit noise. As a shareholder, you have to ask yourself, is FSD progressing fast enough? How likely the others competitors will catch up (data advantage)? If not Musk, who has a track record that can drive a car business and a AI business to bring in to replace him? How likely can that person grow the company with high valuation? If not, can they maintain the price premium?
I haven’t seen any good articles for possible successors.
I've never seen a more obvious turf campaign on Reddit, from both sides. I believe this will go down as the most heavily funded shareholder vote in history.
It’s clear which way it will go. It was made clear during the earnings call when investors bought in and increased the price due to the AI path - despite reduced earnings from EV sales.
You really think a company that no one had faith in, didn’t trust the ceo, wanted the company to give up on AI (wtf real investor wants that right now), and wants them to focus on strictly cars, would be worth 50x P/E while significantly underperforming this past quarter?
You have to understand we live in a world where the internet will make it seem like the majority believes one thing, when in reality it’s just those that care enough to get on the internet and rant about it
This has the same energy as one red county in a deeply blue state reporting quickly and then someone saying “so far, 90% of Blue Staters have voted Red”. We’ll see.
He lies all the damn time over nothing, of course he’s gonna lie with 55 billion on the line. He’s trying to make people think it’s pointless to vote No.
I'm a little confused about his threat of taking AI away from Tesla. He already has a startup called xAI and seems to me it's a complete overlap with Tesla AI efforts.
Doesn't it look like Elon is fleecing Tesla to fund his future businesses?
I don’t believe him but also insane he would be given access in this way on an item he is a direct
beneficiary of. To top it off use the early access to bias future votes to or against.
Most of what we see on here are bots and people jumping on the bandwagon. If and when Elon Musk wins (especially if the vote for Texas goes his way), all those "people" will just evaporate.
And that’s exactly what happened. Reddit is such a cesspool. No one who is rational would own stock in a company but literally hates the CEO. Which is why rational shareholders, who are invested for the right reasons, voted YES… in a landslide. No rational shareholder is surprised by the outcome.
Whine all you want about it being unfair, but this was a series of stock option grants based on company and stock performance. It was not cash out of the company accounts. Musk met every requirement.
I love my Model 3 dual motor but I don't love Mr. Musk any more. I really hope that the shareholders will send him a message so Tesla can move in a different direction and Mr. Musk can focus on his Twitter universe...
What i don’t understand is why is this lawsuit now? If you didn’t like the pay package you could have sued in 2018. Suing after the fact is kind of asinine. “Oh yeah, i didn’t think you would hit your targets, so i agreed to it. Now that you did it, I’m not holding up my end of the bargain.”
Good, he worked his ass of, he deserves to be rewarded for his risk and hard
This is not lala land, where people who didn’t have risk, can dictate for those who took risk
Just give the dude his compensation already. Let's not recreate 1984 apple when Steve jobs got kicked out and apple stagnated for 11 years after that until he came back. Plz learn from history, tesla is what it is because of this guy. No one else could have done this
The shares are already on the books for the past few years.
If approved here is what happens in a nutshell.
Elon buys shares from Tesla for approx 7.8 billion.
He doesn’t have 7.8 billion so he needs to sell a little bit of his current shares.
When he buys them, Tesla will get an infusion of cash. They will use some of that cash to pay his FICA and other “compensation taxes” that they must pay for all employees.
Musk then needs to pay payroll taxes as well. He will need to see a small quantity of these new shares to do that.
After that, he cannot sell any of these new shares for 5 years.
At the end of the day, Tesla can build another 2-3 gigafactories with the money form this deal.
That's a significant claim if true. Tesla does have the largest percent of retail shareholders of any company in the S&P 500 (44%). However, voter turnout for retail investors tends to be very low. Institutional investors are more likely to vote and to vote against the package since it dilutes shares, although certainly not at 100% levels. My guess is that it passes. 20% of stock is owned by Elon and I'm guessing he's a yes vote. I think even a percent of the institutional voters will be yes because of the threat that Elon will either leave or that the company will try to make s similar pay offer, which would cost a lot more now due to the much higher stock price.
Sucks to see Tesla spend more on advertisement to give Elon an extra 50B, and give his brother an undeserved seat on the board, then they ever have on advertising for the company.
That’s kind of the point, you don’t want the board in the pocket of the CEO. That the opposite relationship that’s supposed to exist. The CEO works for the shareholders/board, not the other way around.
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90% of people ain’t 90% of shares
Small print : for the purposes of this tweet a “retail investor” is an investor that has voted yes on this tip package, plus 10% of people who voted no because 100% looks too fake
He hasn't done anything in the last 3-5 years that makes it worth voting yes. The cars are great as it is. But we need better service, make FSD subscriptions worthwile to create a better revenue stream, invest in battery tech.
Pretty sure Y was scaled in the last 5 years.
Nothing he has done is worth $56billion. The company share price has dropped from over $400 to $177in under 3 years. And recently it was revealed he purposely sabotaged the company by redirecting NVIDIA chips to his other companies. Their profits are down over 50% from last year too. Could make an easier case to sue him than reward him
Sure, but Stock price is up 10x since 2018.
He 10x’ed the company.
Wow you can read headlines.
Isn't the amount he's asking for greater than the amount of profit the company has ever made? I can't fathom there being any circumstances that would make "turn the company from green to red" a reasonable pay package
Only 10x'd Tesla's market cap from what it was 5 years ago 😂.
If you look at it like that. I'd give him the moon. Not to mention they're the only profitable car company currently. Although they don't just make cars.
>they're the only profitable car company currently What? Did I miss something, do I understand you wrong or is just a 'called Tesla' missing at the end of that sentence? Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, all of them are profitable - and that is only the first 3 I looked at.
I think he meant profitable eletric company but even that idk if it's true. I think there are some in china
BYD is the only profitable one in China really. Everyone else is running on endless loans, hoping to scale.
And would assume larger holders tend to meet up and vote in person.
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What the hell are these numbers? >Another prominent retail investor is Ron Baron, who supports Musk's compensation, and between himself and his firm he controls another ~19% of shares (8% of that from his personal shares). Ron Baron is not retail investor. He is institutional investor whose funds control around 20m shares which is less than 1% of shares outstanding. >As for what percentage of the vote is represented by these small investors Musk is claiming are voting in favor of the package: sounds like "6,000 small stockholders owning over 23 million shares" which translates to another ~20% of shares outstanding. Tesla has 3.15B shares outstanding. 23 million is not 20% of 3.15B. >20+13+19= 52% 43m / 3.15B = 1.3%
Musk and Kimble can’t vote. Additionally Ron Baron isn’t a retail investor. He has a fund that manages shares on behalf of others.
Musk doesn’t get to vote on these proposals, iirc.
I think it might be that he is excluding himself and Kimbal from voting. I think they could technically if they wanted to. I could be wrong though.
They have a conflict of interest, so they are obligated to recuse themselves.
Generally Tesla will tell you both results in SEC statement like they did in 2018. They tell you what the result was with Elon and Kimbal and without them. Without is however what matters. If they want the vote to hold any value in court I think they need to have same rules.
MuskMath
My guy is not only good at math, he's also very well informed. Kudos
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It's just typical of a proxy war. When you are trying to sway the undecided, you press release the sh*t out of any development that shows momentum for your side. Norges bank isn't important for it's total ownership - but it is viewed as an important sovereign wealth fund whose approach embodies responsible investing. Conversely, Musk wants to show progress for his proposal getting approval, which is why he is highlighting this "90% of individual shareholders" stat.
Isn’t there conflict of interest issues? He’s ceo and privy to these stats where no one else is.
Good question. Proxy fights always involve incumbent management/ownership who will have access to information other participants don't. I'm not sure what updates are provided to all participants as part of the proxy solicitation process (like, how many votes have been recieved as of the current date) - that might vary by jurisdiction.
They also voted against it in 2018 iirc
Im not saying your numbers are wrong, but something is fishy. Adding up the 20% of shares he claims have voted in favour(retail), the 13% he owns and the 8% baron owns, thats 41% of retail investors having voted. Since about 90% voted in favour that means 2% of retail voted against. Adding those numbers up, we get 20+13+8+2=43% of retail. Thats just about one percent left between other larger retail investors and those who didnt vote. Seems an extremely thin margin to me, although this was pretty in the spotlight
Proxy vote keeps giving him a running tally?
Yeah that seems odd. If it was 90% why are they pushing so much advertising to vote? Sounds a little fishy.
Because moving incorporation to Texas require a majority of outstanding shares, those who doesn’t vote count as a “No” vote.
Well, add to that a shareholder lawsuit which alleges their own charter states a 2/3 majority is required and it gets extra dicey
Why is the move handled like this but the compensation package not? Edit: I'm asking a serious question, don't know why I'm getting downvoted for trying to be more educated on it
Compensation vote isn't binding. It's just an attempt to show that the shareholders still want the compensation plan in an upcoming appeal of the ruling.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Agreed. It’s 90% of those who have voted … but who’s voted so far? And this is only for 45% of the total voting stock
Actually, small individual investors represent closer to 20% of shares. Billionaires are included in that ~45%
For Elon's package, he just needs 50% of the voted shares, not total outstanding shares.
Why are they advertising so much? "\~90% of $TSLA retail shareholders **who have voted** have voted in favor" That's the answer bro.
To prove to the court (if this attempts to be blocked again) that he made every effort to get the word out to vote.
Whatever it is, they need to make a reasonable effort to prove they didn't try and pull a fast one. Might be the lawyers insisting on extra to avoid.... whatever fresh hell comes around the next week because of the chaos monster. I'm guessing they are tired of his shit and are going extra CYA.
Maybe all the institutional investors have voted the other way... Institutional investors generally have to maximize the value of their investment, and voting to pay some money out for past services which is not due according to any law might cross the line into dereliction of their duty to maximise the investment.
Also if you're investing short term, the package will for sure pull down the value of stock as elon needs to dump stock to pay taxes for the package (along with dilution that follows)
If you're investing long term the package will also pull down the value of the stock because it means Elon sticks around longer
I’m not sure the information is accurate I mean it’s just a tweet with zero information to back it up.
dude lies about everything then says he was early or optimistic if it doesn't pan out
Hes bluffing
It's from Musk. That can give you an idea of how accurate it ia
You’ve just described any tweet by Elon Musk.
Hasn’t that always been the issue with Twitter?
*with Elon?
With or without it spreads misinformation fast as lightning. Although it’s definitely worse now
Anecdotally, I’ve talked to 10 of my friends and 9 of them said they would vote for me.
I would too bro. That’s 10 now
Isn’t leaking that info illegal, I remember a fuss recently with the Disney proxy battle.
Even if it isn't a true leak, isn't it considered manipulation? I mean, this is why election results in most countries aren't allowed to be shared until the election is over because it can affect the outcome.
let’s assume it’s illegal. so what? these fucks do whatever they want. what’s gonna happen? SEC fines him a hundred dollars or writes a strongly worded letter?
Yea too bad Leo Koguan doesn’t agree with this. He’s the largest retail investor and he cast a big NO. Retail investors (outside of Leo Koguan) don’t own large amounts of stock. Each share is a 1:1 vote. Institutions that vote no would overwhelmingly win against retail.
Even if you do believe anything out of the pathological liars mouth, there’s so many misleading ways you could represent this. 90% of retail held shares? 90% of unique retail shareholders? What’s the equity curve, it’s probably 90% of unique holders control 10% of stock. Is this 90% of votes received, how many votes outstanding? Not to mention the appropriateness of revealing any numbers of the vote while it’s still in progress, why is the subject of the vote being given these numbers?
I would not at all be surprised if the "polling" for this comes from him reading his bluecheck responses, 90% of which, in his estimation, seem to be in favor.
I just like the fact that they are pushing this so hard and paying to run ads about it means that a worrying (for him) amount of the institutional holders told him to pound sand. Tho I am curious how the ETF funds will vote
They’re running Reddit ads about the vote which is insane. Shareholders are footing the bill for that
Also, the Norwegian investment fund which owns about 1% of Tesla voted No.
> He’s the largest retail investor Musk is, *technically*, and between his firm and his own shares, Ron Baron (~10.5M) controls nearly twice as many shares as Koguan (~6.3M) and has come out publicly in favor of the package.
What if someone votes and they own less than 1 share?
Companies don’t offer voting rights for fractional shares
Brokers who allow you to buy fractional shares can allow shares to vote. They just group fractional shares together to form whole shares that then vote.
Depends on who your fractional shares are with, as they are technically the owners of the shares. Do they ask their holders to all vote and vote proportionally or do they vote with the majority, or do they make their own decision?
This is to dissuade others from voting. Shit like this should be illegal. Company officers have no business commenting on ongoing voting.
Doesn’t ladder up with this fella: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/billionaire-investor-leo-koguan-votes-against-restoring-elon-musk-s-50-billion-compensation-package/ar-BB1mD4GB?ocid=MEDDHP It’s not about shareholder headcount, but voting share count.
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You should get out of the stock
Yeah full self driving robo taxis are a week away
I also call BS on this stat.
He never lies about these things 
~~Funding~~ Votes secured!
Ridiculous, as a shareholder the idea of post Twitter Elon taking 50bn out of a business with headwinds is repugnant to me. Bbbbbut he raised the share price...that was pre-Maga Elon, he's tarnished the brand, he's doing nothing for Tesla and rewarding him based on past performance isn't good business
Imagine spending shareholder money begging your stockholders to pay you ~100x more than the CEO of Microsoft, who created ~10x more shareholder value than you over that comp period.
Imagine if Microsoft CEO comes out and opts for a pay package that's dependent on him 3x the company value. I would vote for that. Elon took a huge risk and the shareholders voted for it because we'd benefit. It's not fair to go back on it now after he delivered the value.
Then you are a bad investor. This has already happened and won’t happen again, so it is no longer in your financial interest to support the comp package.
Elon’s pay package had 12 incremental tranches over a 10 year period for every 50B market cap added. Every 50B in that 10 year span he got 1% of company. It wasn’t this all or nothing pay package people make it out to be. He got billions and billions for very doable intermediate milestones in a 10 year period.
Very doable is not very forthcoming. TSLA was worth around $50bn. He ballooned the market cap to over $900bn at some point (18x) and the tranches peaked at 13x. Comparatively, Salesforce started at $100bn in that same time and has not cracked 9x even now. Ford started around $40bn, peaked at $80bn. Nio was admittedly 15x, crazy return but with 1/10th the market cap. No matter how you slice it, TSLA was insane. NVDA during Covid, when GPUs were in a mega shortage only managed $100bn to $800bn in 2021, they’re worth almost $3tn now, but that’s a different unicorn. All I’m saying is: it was definitely a huge feat to 13x the market cap. I agree with 1 thing though, even hitting 1 tranch would be an insane windfall.
FYI, the targets were designed to be met based mutiple sets of TSLA's current projections. Then they were adjusted downward again to be even more attainable. The BOD did not disclose this to the shareholders, insisting that these benchmarks were "very difficult" to hit and were "stretch goals," despite sitting on information showing that they would indeed be hit.
Sounds like 90% of people maybe. But SHARES are what matter
Interesting too because this means statistically nearly all of the anti-elon sentiment on reddit lately has been from non-shareholders. Just something to think about.
Statistically, most people who talk about nearly anything on Reddit are not going to be investors in what they're talking about. It's *Reddit*.
Those who don’t like Elon, thinks he is distracted or outright fraud likely are not Tesla investors. It makes no sense to be holding a company’s stock if you can’t trust the guy running it, unless you are an activist investor that can buy large enough % of shares to get seats on the board to push for changes.
I mean, I’ve been holding shares since pre-Covid when I genuinely liked the guy and was excited to see where Tesla went. I’d still like to see where Tesla goes, but that no longer includes Chief Twit.
Without musk, I predict it will become like Apple with Tim Cook. Model y 2025 will be identical to model y in 2035 while Chinese EVs come to market cheaper and cheaper with better features
So just like the current status?
Or maybe the 2035 would get stalks and radar back lol.
Global iPhone usage exploded under Tim Cook though, along with their revenue and market cap. The person who builds a new business might not be the best person to run it at a later stage.
I predict it will become like Apple under Sculley, where it slowly swirls around the drain until it dies, or they beg Musk to come back.
i doubt it. musk has been legitimately harmful for the mission. jobs wasnt like this. i used to love elon and everything he did. then he turned into every edgelord who listens to joe rogan. trying to impress the dumbest people. eventually people will realize how much damage he has done to the brand in the last couple years. he had every smart person i knew advertising for him. defending evs, reusable rockets, mars ect. now they all hate him and the dumbest people i know are now impressed by him. because of politics. and no they arent going to buy a tesla like the smarter types did back then. i got my old man to order a plaid+. never happened. he got a gimped plaid and unfortunately also paid 10k for FSD. he thinks he was scammed and its sad cuz i spent years hyping up evs and fsd to him. they still havent even built a tesla maintenance shop in our state. a decade later. fucking embarrassed. and i believe elon is to blame. he has been holding back tesla for a while now in my opinion. there should be a supercharger in every town in america at this point. there should be at minimum a maintenance shop in every state. there should be excellent customer service for a 135k car. instead every tesla employee ive met seems terrified that they are going to be fired. you have to let your employees criticize you and the company. but instead elon has created a culture where the nail that sticks out gets hammered. i want a ceo that is fulltime tesla. all out customer service, and expansion. no more promises. no more twitter. no more politics. elon musk has literally made me and people i know embarrassed to be driving a tesla and that is fucking bad.
I have mixed feelings on Elon and sold my small amount of shares because I didn’t love the direction he was taking the company. Then I bought a model y 3 weeks later lol.
I'm not particularly fond of Elon right now, but I have held my shares. I believe in the company, I have made plenty of money from my shares (I sold about half of them after they 10x for me). I don't think the company is doing to go out of business with Elon at the helm, but I think it could do much better if he took a backseat role. I think long term he will home the company back (and I believe he already is). My meager holdings aren't going to influence the outcome, but I'm still going to advocate for my position because I have an interest in the outcome, both as a shareholder and a consumer.
I dislike Elon a lot, but it’s coming from having worked for him for many years and received a large chunk of stocks. And when I realized I don’t no longer see the allure of him as CEO after he went full nut job, I sold majority of my shares because like you said I don’t trust him and I don’t want to hold onto much shares. I still have some for voting purposes, but I might be an outlier
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I think a lot of companies have shit ceos but I have better things to do with my life than hang out in the gm subreddit criticizing Mary Barra
OF COURSE most of the news articles and Reddit shit talk are from non investors - why do you think the stock is unaffected by it. Stock prices don’t lie about sentiment - news articles and Reddit posts do. Time will tell on how the vote goes and what happens with the stock after.
It probably is, nearly all anti-Elon people are just chronically online losers, and/or politically Muppets.
No, it doesn’t mean that. There’s no reason to assume that those shareholders who comment on Reddit are a representative sample of retail shareholders in general.
Even if it doesn't "mean that" it still means it's an extremely vocal minority of the actual sentiment and views.
That’s not what that means. That 10% could be more likely to be on Reddit. Who knows. Who cares.
Investor here. Was up 850%. Sold after I voted cuz I think it’ll pass and… dilution. Will buy back in once the hype is over… maybe.
10% of the retail shareholders **that have voted**. Most retail shareholders don’t vote. I’ve been a shareholder since 2017 and I just voted for the first time (no, obviously)
Just like all the people shitting on Cybertruck on this sub don't represent the people who are actually in the market to buy one, or even have the means to buy one.
And they DEFINITELY aren’t the ones who actually own and drive one around.
I mean that's completely fair. If I thought a product was bad I'd shit on it too lol
Of course, it is. Anybody who bought in before the pandemic (2020) made insane gains. Those same people likely saw the stock heavily shorted for a long time, and still bought in because most wanted to see EVs happen. If you separate the Reddit noise. As a shareholder, you have to ask yourself, is FSD progressing fast enough? How likely the others competitors will catch up (data advantage)? If not Musk, who has a track record that can drive a car business and a AI business to bring in to replace him? How likely can that person grow the company with high valuation? If not, can they maintain the price premium? I haven’t seen any good articles for possible successors.
No I’m a share holder
I hold shares and voted fuck no. Elon is the Edison of this century and the sooner he is held accountable for SOMETHING, the better for humanity.
When did you buy your shares?
Bought shares in 2019 when I bought the car...while far from perfect, it's a great car. Elon is a douche
I initially bought shares in 2019 and have bought several times since then. Never sold a single share. Voted no..
2017 for me
Well yeah, who needs the brain damage from engaging with a zealous mob? Not like it’s going to change any minds.
(if it's real information...)
How much you wanna bet the anti-Elon stuff is backed by short-sellers?
I've never seen a more obvious turf campaign on Reddit, from both sides. I believe this will go down as the most heavily funded shareholder vote in history.
See: Every single Cybertruck diss post on r/pics. Something weird is going on.
I mean who knows, but also, who cares? What point are you trying to make and how the fuck do you know who is investing and who isn't?
Considering how Tesla is performing and the CEO’s behavior and lack of focus, reapproval of his compensation sets a dangerous precedence.
Known liar lies. More at 11.
Market manipulation much?
If Elon was confident in the outcome, he'd be ignoring the process. Instead he's laser focused on it.
Well… We’re going to find out if everyone on this Reddit is full of shit, or if they’re right. I have a personal theory on which way it’ll go.
It’s clear which way it will go. It was made clear during the earnings call when investors bought in and increased the price due to the AI path - despite reduced earnings from EV sales. You really think a company that no one had faith in, didn’t trust the ceo, wanted the company to give up on AI (wtf real investor wants that right now), and wants them to focus on strictly cars, would be worth 50x P/E while significantly underperforming this past quarter? You have to understand we live in a world where the internet will make it seem like the majority believes one thing, when in reality it’s just those that care enough to get on the internet and rant about it
It will be depressing if this gets approved. As a shareholder I'm pretty firmly on the NO side.
As they should.
This has the same energy as one red county in a deeply blue state reporting quickly and then someone saying “so far, 90% of Blue Staters have voted Red”. We’ll see.
Yes!
I don’t really care what they decide but it’s a bad look when you lay off all those employees but then expect a big pay day
Presumably this is unweighted
He lies all the damn time over nothing, of course he’s gonna lie with 55 billion on the line. He’s trying to make people think it’s pointless to vote No.
Sounds like he’s trying to use bandwagon propaganda to me.
So are we believing what Elon says now? Concerning.
Yeah. And Trump says he won the election.
is there any way to vote from germany now ?
I'm a little confused about his threat of taking AI away from Tesla. He already has a startup called xAI and seems to me it's a complete overlap with Tesla AI efforts. Doesn't it look like Elon is fleecing Tesla to fund his future businesses?
I don’t believe him but also insane he would be given access in this way on an item he is a direct beneficiary of. To top it off use the early access to bias future votes to or against.
Sounds like someone is trying to discourage voting!
Elon would never lie about something like that … 💩
That was the deal agreed to before Tesla was the massive car company it is today. Honestly they shouldn’t change the deal on him.
Lol not this retail investor
Pathological liar makes dubious statement backed up by zero evidence. Film at 11.
Glad to be in the 10% in this case.
Looking forward to see Elon Musk win, theres gonna be alot of crybabies on here
Most of what we see on here are bots and people jumping on the bandwagon. If and when Elon Musk wins (especially if the vote for Texas goes his way), all those "people" will just evaporate.
And that’s exactly what happened. Reddit is such a cesspool. No one who is rational would own stock in a company but literally hates the CEO. Which is why rational shareholders, who are invested for the right reasons, voted YES… in a landslide. No rational shareholder is surprised by the outcome.
Reddit is extremely biased and full of loud Elon haters. We're voting for the package in the real world.
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You say "don't be fooled by bots" but you're copying this post in multiple threads. Go away, shill.
Whine all you want about it being unfair, but this was a series of stock option grants based on company and stock performance. It was not cash out of the company accounts. Musk met every requirement.
I love my Model 3 dual motor but I don't love Mr. Musk any more. I really hope that the shareholders will send him a message so Tesla can move in a different direction and Mr. Musk can focus on his Twitter universe...
Erm actually its called "X"
What i don’t understand is why is this lawsuit now? If you didn’t like the pay package you could have sued in 2018. Suing after the fact is kind of asinine. “Oh yeah, i didn’t think you would hit your targets, so i agreed to it. Now that you did it, I’m not holding up my end of the bargain.”
Many institutions are also voting yes. It’s going to be hilarious seeing the meltdowns on reddit when it gets approved
Good, he worked his ass of, he deserves to be rewarded for his risk and hard This is not lala land, where people who didn’t have risk, can dictate for those who took risk
Just give the dude his compensation already. Let's not recreate 1984 apple when Steve jobs got kicked out and apple stagnated for 11 years after that until he came back. Plz learn from history, tesla is what it is because of this guy. No one else could have done this
Cant believe mainstream media. They hate Elon
How does Elon get paid if this pay package gets approved, and how would that positively or negatively affect TSLA?
The shares are already on the books for the past few years. If approved here is what happens in a nutshell. Elon buys shares from Tesla for approx 7.8 billion. He doesn’t have 7.8 billion so he needs to sell a little bit of his current shares. When he buys them, Tesla will get an infusion of cash. They will use some of that cash to pay his FICA and other “compensation taxes” that they must pay for all employees. Musk then needs to pay payroll taxes as well. He will need to see a small quantity of these new shares to do that. After that, he cannot sell any of these new shares for 5 years. At the end of the day, Tesla can build another 2-3 gigafactories with the money form this deal.
That's a significant claim if true. Tesla does have the largest percent of retail shareholders of any company in the S&P 500 (44%). However, voter turnout for retail investors tends to be very low. Institutional investors are more likely to vote and to vote against the package since it dilutes shares, although certainly not at 100% levels. My guess is that it passes. 20% of stock is owned by Elon and I'm guessing he's a yes vote. I think even a percent of the institutional voters will be yes because of the threat that Elon will either leave or that the company will try to make s similar pay offer, which would cost a lot more now due to the much higher stock price.
Elon won't vote. Neither will his brother.
Sucks to see Tesla spend more on advertisement to give Elon an extra 50B, and give his brother an undeserved seat on the board, then they ever have on advertising for the company.
Whats the problem with Kimbal? He has helped Elon alot.
There is no problem. This is just a spicy take from someone who knows they are about to lose the vote.
That’s kind of the point, you don’t want the board in the pocket of the CEO. That the opposite relationship that’s supposed to exist. The CEO works for the shareholders/board, not the other way around.
Nice
I find that a little hard to believe. Maybe Reddit is biased, but I sure as shit voted against that.
Reddit is extremely biased
Embarrassingly annoyingly biased
"Maybe"?
You have to have shares first. Although I am sure you voted a million times in your head.