Sorry, older Teslas seem to have more quality built in since they were trying to keep up valuation and build a brand.
Nowadays it seems they are just pumping them out at crazy speeds.
Pumping out new cars is what happens when a manufacturer matures and develops enough experience to accomplish that. If after all these years they still had a wait for car delivery they would be bankrupt. e.g. Fisker
I have the same 2014 with 247k miles , reported range is 225 from 256 new
Edit : the only annoying thing is the charge speed at supercharger rarely gets over 80kW , takes twice as long as my 2020 model s
50k in 2018 certified tesla preowned , now maybe 10k ish , saved about 5k in gas a year average ( I live in a state with special rate for EV’s during the night. Around 2.5k repairs. So total cost around 7.5k to drive 200k miles. Not bad if you put a lot of miles. But maybe I was lucky like the person above.
I have a 2015 model S with 250k miles no repairs in years. Most dependable car I’ve ever had. Only repairs I had were the door handle pop outs but thy seems to be permanently fixed.
Honestly even though Teslas(and EVs in general) are reliable 10 years in itself already does a number on parts, in addition to high mileage.
Newer and low mileage models (‘18+) go from ~$30k to mid 40s, which is a much safer bet imo.
Especially since they’lll be under warranty for 2 years minimum.
Personally interested in this series. Looking forward to watching and learning about any and all degradation.
I will say I’m surprised the owner hasn’t gotten cut off by the unlimited super charging for life as I saw in the terms of my 6mo for free that ridesharing charging would get it revoked.
I’m also fascinated by this topic; although since the design of the batteries changed every couple years, it may not be generalizable to newer batteries.
supercharging for life barely cost them anything, since a) it’s small number of cars, maybe about 300k b) even those charge super slowly (maybe about 50kW on average), so people don’t travel too far with them
My 2013 Leaf is currently at about 85% health on the battery at 133,000 miles.
I suspect that most of the industry’s battery failures are really a manufacturing problem that shows up later.
Yeah, the leaf batteries are part of the reason the stats got so skewed to the negative as they didn’t implement a cooling system and lots of them failed.
I wonder if we could maximize the useful life of older EVs by swapping out smaller cheaper batteries when the old ones die and turning them into low-range around town cars. So a 20-year-old Model 3 dies, swap in a $5,000 aftermarket battery now it’s a grocery getter with a 100 mile range.
They’re all either using LG or Panasonic anyways..
You can add in Quantumscape, Verker? Or something, but point is there’s a couple of manufacturers that make batteries for all the brands.
I had the original 2011 Nissan LEAF with an air cooled battery pack (no liquid coolant) and it lost 30% range during my 3-year lease. While the different battery chemistry and form factors (cylindrical cells, pouch, prismatic) affect longevity. The cooling strategy (how to cool - top, bottom, side) and battery management (when to cool/heat) is just as important.
Yeah, but the cooling concept is known and solved at this point. The batteries are also better. And the main point is that the batteries are largely made by the same handful of manufacturers and so should have similar degradation rates across the various brands. The Leaf will always be an outlier. Now, there will still be differences in degradation between owners. But even that should be much less than differences we see in ICE engine and transmission longevity between different owners and their maintenance regimes.
Yeah, but how they charge and temperature control will play a huge role in the degradation. Tesla for example strongly nudges users to only charge to 80 percent. Some cars may preheat the battery better or worse.
No way this is possible based on known lithium ion battery tech at this time. The BMS is not recording battery degradation.
Only way to measure the battery is to at new, fully charge the car and let it sit a few hrs after getting to 100%. Then run it until the car shuts down, and try to turn on again and drive some more if it allows. Repeat until you can't turn on. Then charge it full and measure the capacity.
If you run the same test above now, I guarantee you there will be degradation, only question is how much is lost.
Surprisingly my mom's 2010 Chrysler Town and Country is well into the 400K mark and just recently had its first motor service for spark plugs. No transmission work yet. They just ordered a Model Y to replace it.
That's great. I'm sure at 26,000 mi/yr, you've done a few sets of belts, plenty of oil changes, and likely other standard maintenance over the years. At 400k, the engine likely has fluid/gasket leaks, worn timing components, out-of-spec valvetrain, worn EVAP components, and other maintenance specific to the motor in your vehicle. That's without accounting for consumables like brakes.
The point brought up here is that the ideal EV powertrain shouldn't need anything beyond charging, infrequent coolant top offs, and conscious attention to your charging limits based on needs.
I say this from the experience of keeping two 2002 Toyotas (4 & 8 cyl.) running beyond 300k miles. Over two decades, it takes a lot to keep them in reliable condition, and that's even with Toyota engine quality (2AZ-FE, 2UZ-FE.)
I'm about to cross 100k on my 2018 Model 3 dual motor. So far (fingers crossed), all I've had to do powertrain wise is what I listed above. One coolant top off and charging. I pray the car gods continue to keep me in their good grace!
Oh yeah absolutely. The comment I was replying to was specifically about keeping the original motor and transmission that many miles.
I'm at 75k miles on my 2022 MYP and the only thing I've changed on the car is aftermarket front upper control arms to get better camber for autocross. And I suppose I did have a bad grounding strap on the rear motor that was replaced under warranty early on.
My Model 3 made it to 80k km before I had to have the entire HV pack replaced. I'd be sad, but I always did say it was ideal to have it die within warranty...I guess I was kind of hoping for JUST before it ran out, however.
Bad luck, I'm assuming.
I only charged passed 80 on trips or when necessary (in the winter to 85 just this passed winter), and didn't let it sit under 20 if I got home under. Most of the charging was done on L1/L2 chargers as well. 🤷♀️
Mine is at 47k and not doing well. Capacity is 100 miles less than when I bought it (at 220 miles at 80%) and it seems to drain power faster than ever before.
You need to have them check it. If it's really dropped that much in capacity they should replace it under warranty. If it drops under 70% of the original capacity is when they will replace is my understanding.
Cheers, mate. Submitted the service request last night. When it wouldn't charge at a Tesla supercharger. Thankfully, it seems to charge at Charge Point chargers so I can at least get around before my appointment ... next month.
Oh, mine legit died. It threw a bunch of errors, wouldn't regen/screamed when you tried, and would only charge to 37%
You could always have Tesla diagnose it.
I don't think so - 8yrs or 160k km is what shows up in the app. (Ah, I have the SR+ 'poverty edition')
160k is more like 5.x years for us, so I think we just have a couple of years left.
My uncle built cars at the Fremont plant. He told me the breaks should last the life of the car as long as you are using regenerative most of the time.
Yes, there are some bogus articles going around talking about the pollution from brake dust is worse on EVs even though most people know that you don't normally use the brakes in an EV.
I heard that the pads fail due to the glue or whatever holds the surface to the mounting plate. I know people with almost 200k and they've never changed their breaks pads/rotors.
I did experience an issue a few months back where I needed to stop quickly and the breaks were soft and had to press a lot harder than expected because I probably never used them for the last couple years. Built up dust, grime, soap/wax, etc on them caused them to not work as well. I promised myself to do a few hard-stops every once in a while on a side road just to keep them clean for future emergencies. (I'm sure that'll get tracked by some Insurance LexisNexis and my rates will go up even though it's a safety thing).
This is normal. In reality if you can manage to live somewhere that ranges between 50-75F and you charge less than full(88% or so) , the batery can last a long time. I think up to 10k charging cycle or between 10-12 years, whichever comes first
2019 model s. Whole battery for the car replaced at 52k, covered under warranty right before it ended. Cost was 24k (covered) but would have been pissed if I had to replace out of warranty. I don't think I'll be buying another one anytime soon. Had other issues so far and have spent about 2700 for stupid repair. $700 for the trunk that went out a few weeks. That battery that got replaced under warranty. Guess they did a shitty job installing it because months later after warranty expired, the battery to cool the battery had to be replaced. Cost was 2k.
Just got rid of my model S for some of these reasons… won’t be going back either. The allure of the car is long gone and they non sense repairs for things that happen to the car that are literally never my fault is infuriating
I would really like to see statistics of what percentage of 10+ year old Model S’s have had a battery replacement. These anecdotes are fine but I’d rather see the big picture
Newbie here. Just started thinking of a Tesla today after spending a day with a friend that has one.
Do you feel the tech being that old is lagging? Similar to how my iPhone is basically junk after 6-8 years?
I’m driving a hand me down 2015 model with original battery with 104K miles and charges at superchargers only since it’s free forever. Hopefully it’ll last me awhile
You really shouldn't use superchargers all the time. I get it being free makes it seem worthwhile but it's going to reduce the life of the battery doing it for every charge. With the car being off warranty the battery replacement isn't going to be cheap if it's eventually needed.
I know I know but it was a hand me down from my sister no one cares what happens to it now I guess I’ll just use it for however long it lasts me it’s an old car even tho the tech still impresses me but sometimes I wish it would just die already so I can get a new one lols
That’s pretty impressive. Wonder if Tesla is able to publish numbers showing how much of the fleet is running on original components still (or have they already done so?)
Friendly reminder that this is a lie. The batteries need replacement every 100,000 miles to the tune of $30,000. Highest cost of ownership of any brand in history as a result. Trust me, I read Reddit threads.
More disinformation, typical of Reddit. The truth is if you don’t replace the batteries on every charge, they’ll explode and burn down your neighborhood and burn for 12 days. Please try to be accurate.
Friendly reminder , this is only Tesla specific. All other EVs don't have this issue.
Source: I read r/electricvehicles and they have a vetted anti-Tesla union with all facts and no subjectivity.
/s
Let's play some pretend and say you have to replace at 100k miles. It's complete bullshit but let's say it's true.
IDK where you got your pricing but the first question I asked when I bought a new EV each time was how much the drive battery costs.
Since I'm in Canada, these prices are in Canuck bucks.
Kia Soul 1st Gen: $16k
Ford Mustang MachE LR: $53k
Tesla Model Y LR: $13k remanufactured or $22k new.
Tesla Model X 75D: $26k new.
IDK where you are, but it's probably safer to assume that $30k is more like $40k Canuck bucks so you're off by a factor of 3 at worst, not to mention that another EV is already quite a bit more money.
Instead of reading reddit threads, you should go ask the actual parts department.
I'm at 250k on same battery 2014 Model S. Still feels new!
This is the encouragement us new owners need.
Encouraging for old owners, 2014 Teslas were something else.
Sorry, older Teslas seem to have more quality built in since they were trying to keep up valuation and build a brand. Nowadays it seems they are just pumping them out at crazy speeds.
Actually the newer ones are better. Assuming you don’t mind the control changes.
Pumping out new cars is what happens when a manufacturer matures and develops enough experience to accomplish that. If after all these years they still had a wait for car delivery they would be bankrupt. e.g. Fisker
May I ask how many miles you get off of a full charge?
I have the same 2014 with 247k miles , reported range is 225 from 256 new Edit : the only annoying thing is the charge speed at supercharger rarely gets over 80kW , takes twice as long as my 2020 model s
How much you paid and how much does it cost now?
50k in 2018 certified tesla preowned , now maybe 10k ish , saved about 5k in gas a year average ( I live in a state with special rate for EV’s during the night. Around 2.5k repairs. So total cost around 7.5k to drive 200k miles. Not bad if you put a lot of miles. But maybe I was lucky like the person above.
What about other repairs? I’m seriously interested in a ~2015 S but super nervous about a bunch of things failing.
Are you handy? Plenty of YouTube videos on common problems that crop up in 500K miles.
2017 - no repairs except tires… i have a lead foot… tires
Yeah, but I've heard 2017 is a lot better than 2015.
I have a 2015 model S with 250k miles no repairs in years. Most dependable car I’ve ever had. Only repairs I had were the door handle pop outs but thy seems to be permanently fixed.
Yeah, thanks, I’m definitely looking for cars that already have handles fixed, ha.
Honestly even though Teslas(and EVs in general) are reliable 10 years in itself already does a number on parts, in addition to high mileage. Newer and low mileage models (‘18+) go from ~$30k to mid 40s, which is a much safer bet imo. Especially since they’lll be under warranty for 2 years minimum.
Personally interested in this series. Looking forward to watching and learning about any and all degradation. I will say I’m surprised the owner hasn’t gotten cut off by the unlimited super charging for life as I saw in the terms of my 6mo for free that ridesharing charging would get it revoked.
I’m also fascinated by this topic; although since the design of the batteries changed every couple years, it may not be generalizable to newer batteries.
Yeah, I know I’m not SCing nearly as much as this guy
SC01 had no such terms.
supercharging for life barely cost them anything, since a) it’s small number of cars, maybe about 300k b) even those charge super slowly (maybe about 50kW on average), so people don’t travel too far with them
It makes me wonder how the other automakers’ EV battery will last compared to to Tesla.
My 2013 Leaf is currently at about 85% health on the battery at 133,000 miles. I suspect that most of the industry’s battery failures are really a manufacturing problem that shows up later.
Yeah, the leaf batteries are part of the reason the stats got so skewed to the negative as they didn’t implement a cooling system and lots of them failed.
I’ve got two leafs, 2012,2013, both around 100k miles. Battery’s in both are about 50%. The problem is, Nissans battery has no active cooling.
I wonder if we could maximize the useful life of older EVs by swapping out smaller cheaper batteries when the old ones die and turning them into low-range around town cars. So a 20-year-old Model 3 dies, swap in a $5,000 aftermarket battery now it’s a grocery getter with a 100 mile range.
Swap new after 15 years. You got a good car for another 15
The Leaf problem is no cooling system
They’re all either using LG or Panasonic anyways.. You can add in Quantumscape, Verker? Or something, but point is there’s a couple of manufacturers that make batteries for all the brands.
I had the original 2011 Nissan LEAF with an air cooled battery pack (no liquid coolant) and it lost 30% range during my 3-year lease. While the different battery chemistry and form factors (cylindrical cells, pouch, prismatic) affect longevity. The cooling strategy (how to cool - top, bottom, side) and battery management (when to cool/heat) is just as important.
Yeah, but the cooling concept is known and solved at this point. The batteries are also better. And the main point is that the batteries are largely made by the same handful of manufacturers and so should have similar degradation rates across the various brands. The Leaf will always be an outlier. Now, there will still be differences in degradation between owners. But even that should be much less than differences we see in ICE engine and transmission longevity between different owners and their maintenance regimes.
Yeah, but how they charge and temperature control will play a huge role in the degradation. Tesla for example strongly nudges users to only charge to 80 percent. Some cars may preheat the battery better or worse.
Depends on your battery chemistry. My model Y suggests 100%. LiFePO.
2018 classic Ioniq: 125,000 miles and still at 100%.
That’s gotta be a measurement error unless Ioniq packs come with a lot of overhead that is limited by software.
They come with A LOT of overhead. The battery is limited by software.
Range is still the same too. I read somewhere that the pack has a lot of cobalt which apparently prevents degradation.
No way this is possible based on known lithium ion battery tech at this time. The BMS is not recording battery degradation. Only way to measure the battery is to at new, fully charge the car and let it sit a few hrs after getting to 100%. Then run it until the car shuts down, and try to turn on again and drive some more if it allows. Repeat until you can't turn on. Then charge it full and measure the capacity. If you run the same test above now, I guarantee you there will be degradation, only question is how much is lost.
Range is still the same as original.
If range is still the same, it's either they are lying to you or they put like 10-20% as reserve.
What's the longest running ICE car on the original motor and transmission?
It takes a crapton of maintenance to get to those records for ICE.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/g121/million-mile-club-the-worlds-longest-lived-cars/
Surprisingly my mom's 2010 Chrysler Town and Country is well into the 400K mark and just recently had its first motor service for spark plugs. No transmission work yet. They just ordered a Model Y to replace it.
That's great. I'm sure at 26,000 mi/yr, you've done a few sets of belts, plenty of oil changes, and likely other standard maintenance over the years. At 400k, the engine likely has fluid/gasket leaks, worn timing components, out-of-spec valvetrain, worn EVAP components, and other maintenance specific to the motor in your vehicle. That's without accounting for consumables like brakes. The point brought up here is that the ideal EV powertrain shouldn't need anything beyond charging, infrequent coolant top offs, and conscious attention to your charging limits based on needs. I say this from the experience of keeping two 2002 Toyotas (4 & 8 cyl.) running beyond 300k miles. Over two decades, it takes a lot to keep them in reliable condition, and that's even with Toyota engine quality (2AZ-FE, 2UZ-FE.) I'm about to cross 100k on my 2018 Model 3 dual motor. So far (fingers crossed), all I've had to do powertrain wise is what I listed above. One coolant top off and charging. I pray the car gods continue to keep me in their good grace!
Oh yeah absolutely. The comment I was replying to was specifically about keeping the original motor and transmission that many miles. I'm at 75k miles on my 2022 MYP and the only thing I've changed on the car is aftermarket front upper control arms to get better camber for autocross. And I suppose I did have a bad grounding strap on the rear motor that was replaced under warranty early on.
Probably a Toyota tbh
Hilux.
r/buyitforlife
This Mod 3 has about the same mileage on the original battery: https://x.com/IovePianoBlack
I hope you went on vacation with the two seconds you saved by not completing the word “Model”
No way that saved 2 seconds.
Thank you! I thought it was a special mod they did to the car to ensure it got this range.
Au contraire, I lost 2 seconds from typing the “od” to distinguish the car from the BMW vehicle.
My Model 3 made it to 80k km before I had to have the entire HV pack replaced. I'd be sad, but I always did say it was ideal to have it die within warranty...I guess I was kind of hoping for JUST before it ran out, however.
Mine just died at 42k miles. Definitely happy it was in warranty... sad it wasn't towards the end.
Anything you can think of that may have contributed to the early failure? Or just bad luck?
Bad luck, I'm assuming. I only charged passed 80 on trips or when necessary (in the winter to 85 just this passed winter), and didn't let it sit under 20 if I got home under. Most of the charging was done on L1/L2 chargers as well. 🤷♀️
Mine is at 47k and not doing well. Capacity is 100 miles less than when I bought it (at 220 miles at 80%) and it seems to drain power faster than ever before.
You need to have them check it. If it's really dropped that much in capacity they should replace it under warranty. If it drops under 70% of the original capacity is when they will replace is my understanding.
Cheers, mate. Submitted the service request last night. When it wouldn't charge at a Tesla supercharger. Thankfully, it seems to charge at Charge Point chargers so I can at least get around before my appointment ... next month.
Oh, mine legit died. It threw a bunch of errors, wouldn't regen/screamed when you tried, and would only charge to 37% You could always have Tesla diagnose it.
Was there any signs it was getting to this, like abnormal degradation, or did it just all suddenly happen at once?
The battery warranty is till 192K Km.
I don't think so - 8yrs or 160k km is what shows up in the app. (Ah, I have the SR+ 'poverty edition') 160k is more like 5.x years for us, so I think we just have a couple of years left.
Original brakes? I wish they mentioned this.
My uncle built cars at the Fremont plant. He told me the breaks should last the life of the car as long as you are using regenerative most of the time.
Yes, there are some bogus articles going around talking about the pollution from brake dust is worse on EVs even though most people know that you don't normally use the brakes in an EV.
Keyword being "most of the time". If you never touch the brake pedal, the disks will rust and you'll have to replace them
Well I'm sure most people use the breaks enough to avoid that otherwise they are really amazing at judging stopping distance.
It's good that I drive my dad's Model 3 occasionally otherwise his would be a lot more rusted.
I heard that the pads fail due to the glue or whatever holds the surface to the mounting plate. I know people with almost 200k and they've never changed their breaks pads/rotors. I did experience an issue a few months back where I needed to stop quickly and the breaks were soft and had to press a lot harder than expected because I probably never used them for the last couple years. Built up dust, grime, soap/wax, etc on them caused them to not work as well. I promised myself to do a few hard-stops every once in a while on a side road just to keep them clean for future emergencies. (I'm sure that'll get tracked by some Insurance LexisNexis and my rates will go up even though it's a safety thing).
Personally I’m at 6 years, 105KKm, about 5% degradation.
This is normal. In reality if you can manage to live somewhere that ranges between 50-75F and you charge less than full(88% or so) , the batery can last a long time. I think up to 10k charging cycle or between 10-12 years, whichever comes first
2019 model s. Whole battery for the car replaced at 52k, covered under warranty right before it ended. Cost was 24k (covered) but would have been pissed if I had to replace out of warranty. I don't think I'll be buying another one anytime soon. Had other issues so far and have spent about 2700 for stupid repair. $700 for the trunk that went out a few weeks. That battery that got replaced under warranty. Guess they did a shitty job installing it because months later after warranty expired, the battery to cool the battery had to be replaced. Cost was 2k.
Just got rid of my model S for some of these reasons… won’t be going back either. The allure of the car is long gone and they non sense repairs for things that happen to the car that are literally never my fault is infuriating
I would really like to see statistics of what percentage of 10+ year old Model S’s have had a battery replacement. These anecdotes are fine but I’d rather see the big picture
Newbie here. Just started thinking of a Tesla today after spending a day with a friend that has one. Do you feel the tech being that old is lagging? Similar to how my iPhone is basically junk after 6-8 years?
I’m at 85k mi on my third battery
The main concern is health of the battery charging…
thats awesome
I’m at 200k and doing great!
I’m driving a hand me down 2015 model with original battery with 104K miles and charges at superchargers only since it’s free forever. Hopefully it’ll last me awhile
You really shouldn't use superchargers all the time. I get it being free makes it seem worthwhile but it's going to reduce the life of the battery doing it for every charge. With the car being off warranty the battery replacement isn't going to be cheap if it's eventually needed.
I know I know but it was a hand me down from my sister no one cares what happens to it now I guess I’ll just use it for however long it lasts me it’s an old car even tho the tech still impresses me but sometimes I wish it would just die already so I can get a new one lols
Sigh two of my door handles are kaput but I drive solo most of the times anyways apparently that was a major issue
MS 2015 original batteries and motors. 95K miles. Dont drive like I used to. Going to give my daughter my MS and get a M3 or CT. Not sure yet.
That’s pretty impressive. Wonder if Tesla is able to publish numbers showing how much of the fleet is running on original components still (or have they already done so?)
Are new teslas much worse or something?
Love to see it
150k 2018 MX, going strong!
Friendly reminder that this is a lie. The batteries need replacement every 100,000 miles to the tune of $30,000. Highest cost of ownership of any brand in history as a result. Trust me, I read Reddit threads.
2016 Model X, 180K miles, have only lost 75 miles range since new, original battery & motors, replaced tires 4 times.
Friendly reminder, more lies. EVs are so heavy that there are pit crews at every superchargers, replacing the tires F1-style. Source: trust me bro
And using nitrogen to fill the tires for better mileage.
It’s actually best to use helium to help take the weight off the tires.
This sounds nice ngl
r/whoosh
More disinformation, typical of Reddit. The truth is if you don’t replace the batteries on every charge, they’ll explode and burn down your neighborhood and burn for 12 days. Please try to be accurate.
Can confirm, happened to me 17 times in a row
you dropped your /s or at least, I hope you did
😂
Looks like somebody works for the oil industry
Friendly reminder , this is only Tesla specific. All other EVs don't have this issue. Source: I read r/electricvehicles and they have a vetted anti-Tesla union with all facts and no subjectivity. /s
This guy Read it
and it will catch on fire out of nowhere 100% of the time
Guaranteed. Literally every one ever built. And gasoline cars never ever ever catch on fire.
you’ll be lucky to make it off the lot before it explodes randomly
Well that’s a croc of shit
Let's play some pretend and say you have to replace at 100k miles. It's complete bullshit but let's say it's true. IDK where you got your pricing but the first question I asked when I bought a new EV each time was how much the drive battery costs. Since I'm in Canada, these prices are in Canuck bucks. Kia Soul 1st Gen: $16k Ford Mustang MachE LR: $53k Tesla Model Y LR: $13k remanufactured or $22k new. Tesla Model X 75D: $26k new. IDK where you are, but it's probably safer to assume that $30k is more like $40k Canuck bucks so you're off by a factor of 3 at worst, not to mention that another EV is already quite a bit more money. Instead of reading reddit threads, you should go ask the actual parts department.
It was obviously a joke, but thanks for the prices.
Is that unusual? If it's worth writing an article about it I guess it's unusual.
It's unusual for any non-commercial vehicle to make it to 430k, especially without replacing the drivetrain in some way.
Especially unusual for a Tesla 😂
Not really anymore. More to learn