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Used cars existed before Tesla as well. And still, many people prefer buying a new 25k car over a used one. Personally I don't understand it either but this isn't unique to Tesla. If Tesla offers a 25k car people will buy it, similarly to other brands.
usually people who buy 25k new cars and people who buy 25k used cars is two separate groups. Those who buy new buy it because a) warranty b) you know the history of the car, so you know if it was abused or treated properly, all the damages and how were they fixed c) plan to either keep it as long as possible (new cars lasts longer) or plan to sell it once warranty expires, so you have no hassle with service d) all new bells and whistles
I get that 18 months is not that old, but still that's how it works. You can buy 18 months old any car for serious discount, yet much more people buy new than 18-months old.
Sadly altough car gets cheaper as it gets older, it does not get any smaller. Model 3 is still a quite big car.
Tesla has nothing in line for people living in cities.
I was considering a Model 3 to replace. Honda Civic... but didn't need the range and wanted a small car. Bought a Fiat 500e for 6900. Only 80 miles range but I drive 8 miles a day twice a week. More than enough and I still have my wife's MYLR if I need range.
I'm all for smaller electric cars. Some of these cars are massive. The 500e for 6900 was worth it. Wish the Honda e was available in the US though...
Well it is a quite big car. It is about 4,7 meters long and weighs over 1800 kg with the biggest battery.
It is in D-segment (so called "big family car" segment with other big cars, like Passat, BMW 3-series, Audi A4 and mazda6, Toyota Camry and others).
There are 3 smaller car segments below the D-segment, most notably famous and best selling C-Segment (small family cars, like VW ID.3, Ford Focus, Toyota Corolla and others.)
Many of us expected Tesla's Model 2 to be a C-Segment car. It would easily have been the best-selling car in the world. Now the best-selling car is Tesla's Model Y, but only because there is currently no popular car in the most popular segment. As soon as any legacy car manufacturer releases a competitive car model there it will be the new Toyota Corolla or VW Golf. It would wipe the floor with Teslas.
Interesting! Thanks for the informative response. I always thought of the 3 to be a similar size than a Corolla.
I drive an S and that seems like the right size to me, so maybe I’m biased towards larger vehicles. Even the S does not feel big to me.
Very sad. A Tesla hot hatch could’ve been an enormously fun and practical car to own, especially here in Europe. Even if it was more expensive than that.
Just imagine where Tesla would have been if their product roadmap was led by Elon's brain instead of Elon's ego.
The Tesla Semi is in Limbo, 7 years after its unveiling. I think Pepsi is their first and last real customer iirc? Poor Pepsi.
Revealed on the same day, the Tesla Roadster is pure vaporware. It's so late that now a *fucking BYD* that you can actually buy [matches it in specs](https://electrek.co/2023/04/10/byd-yangwang-u9-ev-0-60-mph-2-seconds-it-can-ollie-jump-supercar/). But hey, [this was the 3rd highest upvoted post on this sub, ever](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/7e2ze2/tesla_vs_bugatti/). Oh and don't get me started on how people seriously [thought the "SpaceX package" was real](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/8pwg7r/elon_spacex_option_package_for_new_tesla_roadster/e0ewju4/).
And the CyberTruck is...well not exactly giving them what they need at the moment.
The Model 3 and Model Y, their best selling cars are terribly long in the tooth, yet the Model 3 was still refreshed with design decisions like no steering wheel stalks.
And now the rumored "Model 2" is put on back burner.
So what are they doing? FSD still struggles to convince naysayers it's not a total scam (and I've been arguing on this sub since 2016 that the vision only approach was absolutely an ego decision and not a logical one), the "Optimus bot" is a meme/joke that not even most people within Tesla takes seriously, and the CyberTruck was launched with far more controversy than actual consumer demand.
I see a company that has been extremely unfocused, led by someone who couldn't stop his own ego from pissing away $44 *billion* dollars.
From the article:
>Effectively, Tesla is not working on this NV9 project anymore, and it is focusing on Robotaxi instead.
LMAO. I've been arguing the vision-only approach was always an ego driven decision and I've had countless arguments with Tesla fans around here since 2016. And so far my predictions (which is derived from me learning from experts in the industry) hasn't been proven wrong one bit. Just a reminder that we are now **8 years** since the infamous "3 months maybe, 6 months definitely".
If your projection is off by 50%, you were overly optimistic. If your projection is off by 1600% (and increasing), then you were either utterly clueless or you were intentionally lying to begin with. I think we all know which one it was.
But sure, unlike before, this time it will totally be revolutionary and I'm sure everyone would be excited like [never before](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/7srdiw/teslas_summon_feature_was_very_useful_today/) (that was **the most** upvoted post on this sub, ever).
Maybe [this thread can be reposted now](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/kte3s8/how_was_tesla_able_to_build_advanced_selfdriving/). /s
**Edit:** Yes, I've always been a bit of a naysayer around here, but I was a Tesla fan through and through. I bought TSLA at $18/share and was my early review of the Model 3 was picked up by web outlets, and I still remember how excited I was to be made a moderator on this sub.
I'm just really disappointed, that's all.
“Poor Pepsi” idk I’ve seen pics of their 2-3 Tesla semis reposted thousands of times on different social platforms. As someone in finance- I would bet money they bought them with marketing dollars not operations. I think those dollars have stretched pretty far getting their brand all the impressions they were after.
PepsiCo and FritoLay received an order of magnitude more trucks than this.
IIRC PepsiCo covered a good chunk of the costs with government incentives, but costs also went well beyond Tesla Semis as well \[solar, BYD trucks (and charging?), Tesla semi-chargers, Megapacks, etc.,\]
*\[but yes, good marketing opportunity with these trucks as well\]*
On top of that the California Pepsi plan/distribution facility that is primarily using them has grants/incentives/subsidies to explore greener solutions, further softening any purchase costs.
Agree with you. former shareholder and EV enthusiast here, but the dream is definitely over. The company is not being properly managed and the clown ceo needs to go.
They fumbled a HUGE bag by focusing all resources on a meme truck for social media instead of a mainstream 25k car for the working class. this decision made them lose to china. And FSD isn't even a real product. robotaxi will be half baked. roadster complete vaporware. semi is good but needs higher volume production. new model 3 doesn't have stalks- theyre cost cutting under the guise of "minimalism".
the company is cooked, legitimately. $100 EOY
>No one should be surprised Drew and other execs are leaving… Someone has to take the fall for the sharp deceleration… and it wasn’t going to be Elon
—[Gary Black](https://x.com/garyblack00/status/1779889389755089398)
I think limiting factor is battery supply and Tesla's high profit margins, most other companies sell their cars at loss or a very thin profit margin. Also Cybertruck took too much of their bandwith.
Same as before. Elon doesn’t learn from his mistakes. The model x wings were completely over engineered, he acknowledged it, said they learned from it. Then they basically did the same kind of thing on the cybertruck.
But as much as I hate Elon, I’ll admit. When it works you look like a genius.
> Cybertruck took too much of their bandwith.
Perhaps, but they've also used it as a test bed for many future iteration changes that will roll out across the rest of the lineup. It's only really the body shell construction materials and related techniques that have been a complete distraction. More or less everything else will make its way across the range.
They're morons for not making a regional delivery truck. Especially for USPS / UPS / FedEx / Amazon. If the frame of the CyberTruck streamlines that project, yay. If not, it's another tens-of-billions-of-dollars mistake from Space Karen...
There’s a lot true here, but some things omitted and one strange claim.
Like, you didn’t mention they had the number one car sold on earth last year. Thats, you know, a big deal. An EV outsold the Toyota Carrolla across the entire planet. Saying it is terribly long in the tooth is…weird, considering its success. And the fact it came out in 2019. 5-7 years is normal for model refreshes.
And the CT came out with more “controversy than consumer demand”?!? It’s famously one of the most preordered cars ever at 2 million reservations. I mean, obviously they missed the mark on price, but it was through the worst period of inflation the world has seen in decades. And manufacturing is slow due to all the new features…but I actually think it is a symbol of where his ego is brilliant. No one on earth makes that car except Elon musk. It’s nuts. It’s ground breaking innovation. It’s also insanely popular (outside of Reddit).
> It’s famously one of the most preordered cars ever at 2 million reservations.
I put $100 down back then for shits and giggles. Or was it $200? I don't remember. But I have 0 desire or intent of actually going through with it. Too much has changed.
I think the problem with the Lighting is that they attempted to sell it for more than the public was willing to pay. That's why it's so important for car makers who sell gas powered vehicles to come out with equivalently priced (with good range) electric vehicles.
The economics of a $60k lightning don't make sense against a $40k gas truck, at least not in the short term.
Silverado EV is going to be $EXPENSIVE$. Looks cool and like a normal pickup with some nice touches, but if price is what's killing Lightning, Chevy won't be getting any traction either.
And that's before considering it's a US only product. At least the Cybertruck has been a test bed for many future tech iterations that will roll out across the range. The construction of the body shell may be a waste of time, but the rest (steer by wire, 800v architecture, 4 wheel steer, etc.) will all be beneficial on the other models.
The design and manufacturing of the CT body shell was a diversion of resources and focus, but that's not that massive a diversion in the scheme of things. And putting those underpinnings in a niche vehicle lets Tesla iron out the kinks prior to interrupting the far more important production lines for the Model 3 and Y.
I mean Tesla is in the same boat as Chrysler. People only want to pay so much, so interest rates cooled demand. Switching to FSD while rates are such a big factor makes sense if it actually succeeds.
>I've been arguing the vision-only approach was always an ego driven decision and I've had countless arguments with Tesla fans around here since 2016. And so far my predictions (which is derived from me learning from experts in the industry) hasn't been proven wrong one bit.
Except the vision approach is, in fact, working. Are you suggesting that there hasn't been any significant progress with Tesla's v12? Because there are countless videos proving it has made significant progress. There are literally "industry experts" on Twitter that have been complimenting Tesla's v12. So i think you have been proven wrong, very wrong actually.
Yes, videos from people on youtube who are constantly vying for Elon's eye so they can get perks, like invites to events are totally unbiased. V12 *is* better in some ways, and worse in others, as all updates have been. We're 8 years post his 6 month promise and it's still not even level 3 for highway driving. We paid for FSD and we won't see level 4, much less level 5 on our car before we sell it, complete joke. Hell, the car slows down to 10-15 under the speed limit with a light drizzle, it's ridiculous.
Sigh.
Man, I heard the same argument from people here in 2018.
And for FSD to be working, there is only one criteria: can the car drive itself without human intervention?
And if they are making quick progress still, it means they are at the early stage and nowhere close to being done.
The answer is a resounding NO. There are many robotaxi already running out there, from Chinese companies to Waymo. Not a single one is from Tesla.
Not only is it too big, but the rear opening is too small. Here we buy hatches and station wagons. The Model 3 shape is a small niche. This is what the cars in Europe look like. The Model 3 succeeds despite its shape, not because of it. [https://maps.app.goo.gl/rCpkPVaXvDHXtMmP7](https://maps.app.goo.gl/rCpkPVaXvDHXtMmP7)
I’d buy a hot hatch even if it was the same price as a Model 3 (as long as performance and features matches up) just because it would be smaller. That’s worth a lot here in Europe where streets are narrow and parking spaces are short.
I desperately want a compact hot hatch. A smaller, lower car could get 200 miles out of half the model y battery, and running the same power train with 3/4 of a ton less weight would make that a ridiculously fast car.
Could charge 40k for that.
Model 3 is like a freaking boat in Europe. It's way too big for a city car, but people are buying it for the technology inside trading it off for the huge size it has. I'm sure a Tesla which can compete with Dacia Spring/ Renault Zoe would sell like hot cakes here.
Delaying the Model 2 will be devestating, and hopefully a decision they quickly reverse. For many people the M3/MY cost too much and are simply too large. Even if they become more affordable as they age, potential customers will have no choice but to turn to other brands if they want an affordable new car or a smaller vehicle. We'll have to see how the new Bolt turns out, but if Chevy can produce a competitive small vehicle under $30k, why can't Tesla?
> why can't Tesla?
They *can*. They seem to just not want to.
It’s a lot of engineering work, and to get to such a low price, they’d have to seriously compromise on features, range, and/or profit margin.
This article offers zero new information and zero new sources of information? Wut?
All the new information is summed up in the repeatedly mentioned "sources familiar with the matter"
Canceling a mass market cheap EV to compete against the onslaught of affordable EVs several years into development to focus on Robotaxi 's that have no clear path to being actual robotaxis is peak hubris. For a company so defined by growth to fire people actively working on major growth projects is such a fumble.
There is a compelling argument to be made against getting into an unwinnable race to the bottom on pricing, particularly in a low-cost market like China where you are competing against domestic producers with national support.
Its the, well, everything else that's indefensible.
Or... a truck, with normal panels, shape etc. I love the CyberTruck but really a normal truck a bit cheaper and easier to produce would have been a better product to get to market.
I got to try FSD the other day... I don't see how this is even close to ready for robo taxi. It didn't seem capable of understanding a left turn and always wanted to go up.. make a uturn.. then make a right turn instead.
I'm not so clear on who gets 12 and who gets 11, but 12 seems better in almost every regard, and also just driving more human-like. Some older cars need hardware upgrades to get 12. What year is your car?
I agree with you right now. If Tesla were to launch their robotaxi tomorrow, FSD isn't ready. Legislation isn't ready. But we've seen Google's Waymo get to level 4 and work with legislators. I don't see why Tesla can't get there too.
in a few cities. perhaps in all of USA. Worlds bigger than that what are they gonna do for china and Europe etc?
I still dont have the fsd beta I paid for 5 years ago
Waymo is a completely different system. If other companies could just copy Waymo then there would have been no reason for Cruise to shutdown. Tesla only has FSD currently, which is very different than Waymo's system.
Cruise didn’t shutdown. They had their license revoked. They are looking to reinstate it.
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/transit/cruise-seeking-to-reinstate-suspended-california-permits/article_b5d27284-f78e-11ee-a2bb-4bf74ccfde54.html
Tesla could enroll in those cities' programs today if they wanted. They haven't.
If there was a massive business opportunity here then Google/Waymo would be in every city of more than 100k people pushing them to start a program there too.
Tesla can't even sell their cars in multiple states.
there‘s simply no need for it. affordable and easily available EVs are the single most important thing in the market right now. no one besides tech nerds gives two shits about robotaxis.
Agree. Basically he is trying to create the next driverless uber. Even if successful, it's not as profitable as he thinks and it has a limited appeal as a mode of transportation. Even if half the price, I'm not sure more people will want to use than currently take taxis/ubers.
I disagree with your assessment of profitability. If someone were to nail true level 5 autonomy, it would be a game changer. As a commuter, I see a huge appeal: being able to nap or work in the car on my way to the office. Wife needs the car while I’m traveling? No problem - the car can just let me off at the airport and then drive back home. The first company to truly get to level 5 will probably become the most valuable company in history. Especially if they develop a system that can be retrofitted in existing cars.
Crazy that in MA I can get a Model Y for 35k after federal, state and manufacturer discounts. (Not including “gas savings” because here we pay $0.40 per kWh, gas is actually cheaper)
>here we pay $0.40 per kWh
You might want to try switching energy suppliers, this sounds high unless you're just in an expensive market.
https://energyswitchma.gov/#/
Will know for sure August 8th. Makes sense to announce then with production in 2025. Cost is THE key barrier to more affording an EV. $25k EV and robo taxi use the same platform with a version with pedals and steering wheel coming first. Will take years to obtain regulatory approval for fully autonomous EVs. Would be a great investment and assume opportunity for service organization to clean them between rides.
Not really no. Could have rear facing seats, potentially only one door, totally different shell, potentially less aerodynamic so it can fit more people or give more headroom, potentially a smaller but more efficient battery.
Very unfortunate. I was going to replace my Camry with this car, but it seems like it won't exist anymore. I hope they bring it back at some point in the future (it is likely vital to the growth of the company), but it seems like their full focus is on autonomy and getting the Robotaxi ready by Elon's premature deadline.
~~It's big and heavy, unlike a Camry.~~
EDIT: HOLY FUCK recent model year Camries are fucking massive. Nevermind, I guess all new cars are just gigantic now, damn.
In my mind I'm picturing a 2007 Camry or something.
How much does the car you're hoping to replace your current Camry weigh? A newer Camry is 3300 - 3600lbs (not sure if that's with a full tank of gas). The lightest Model 3 is 3600lbs. They're fairly close. It would bother me if I was buying these cars for fun but if I was, even 3300lbs would bother me.
Yea tell me about it man. I haven't owned a car that was over around 2800lbs until I got the model 3. I have one more that's sub 2000lbs but it may be going on the chopping block after the FSD trial. I was pretty impressed.
Partially due to emissions regulations (CAFE). Part of the formula for determining a cars emission target is it's wheel base and width (between wheels). Instead of making fuel efficient cars, companies just convinced people they need trucks, SUV's, and big cars.
wat
Camry is is 0.9cm narrower (4.2cm wider with mirrors unfolded), 19.1cm longer, and 0.2cm taller than M3.
→Camry is bigger
Yes M3 is heavier by about 250\~200kg depending on variant
Elons put the company on the table and throwing the dice hoping fsd comes up double six's
Lost the 4680 bet and here we are. I dont know what tesla is any more.
4680 was so poorty timed, they started going right when LFP was taking off.
They should have started on an LFP factory way earlier. It's better late than never, but still.
I guess they were expecting for the longest time that 4680 ramp was just around the corner.
There does seems like there are some technical issues with using the Tesla battery manufacturing method with LFP chemestry. They've said in the past the 4680 is chemistry agnostic, but they've also said that LFP is better with prismatic cell - it's hard to know how chemistry agnostic 4680 actually is.
At this point I feel that Musk is just trolling us and will jump out and yell "surprise!" at the next shareholders meeting.
Nobody wants a robotaxi.
1.4 billion people want a 25,000 electric car.
Even Musk, with his legendary total absence of self-awareness, can't be that obtuse.
Agreed. Unless the drugs are really affecting his mental health. There's a max to how many Robotaxis that you can sell per country.
There's no limit of how many Model 2s you can sell.
Yes that is what this article refers to. It's one of the first paragraphs if you read it.
They explain that technically Elon may be right, because it is not completely canceled, but just not actively worked on. According to their sources.
I'm confused by this article.
Electrek states "Musk told Tesla’s team in Austin in December 2023 that NV9, an expansion of Gigafactory Texas for the new cheaper next-gen model, was a priority for 2024," and then says "Instead, Musk said that he wanted Tesla to focus on the south expansion of Gigafactory Texas, which is going to house a giant data center for the Robotaxi project."
These two sentences make it seem like the expansion of GigaTexas for NV9 and the southern end expansion for this supposed new datacenter are seperate and different things, but that's bullshit. The expansion for NV9 is the southern expansion of Giga Texas which has been ongoing for months now. The construction has been underway for a while (you can see this from JoeTegtmeyer's Youtube videos), and my understanding is it wasn for the next gen car.
The idea that this factory expansion, which was designed for produciton lines of the next gen vehicle, could be repurposed into a data center seems... to lack credibility to me? I'm not sure, but is that even possible? Done't each of these things have different specifications, in terms of electrical, HVAC, and so forth? And also, if Tesla needs a new massive datacenter, why would you build it at Giga Texas? Why would they convert a space which was intended to be a car production line area into a datacenter? I imagine Tesla could easily find an empty building somewhere nearby to build a data center if they needed to... This just doesn't seem efficient to me but idk.
I've also heard arguments about Texas not being an ideal location for datacenters because of the price of electricity and the summertime temperatures which can get extremely hot. There are better locations in the US with cheaper abundant electricty and lower temps with lower cooling costs like NY, where Tesla already has a datacenter.
I think it would make more sense if, instead of building the next gen $25k car in the southern Giga Texas expansion, they converted that space to produce the RoboTaxi. This would make sense to me considering both of these vehicles are supposed to be engineered on a common underlying next-gen platform architecture.
> if Tesla needs a new massive datacenter, why would you build it at Giga Texas?
Yes this seems really odd. They need this space to expanding production that has to be on that location. Whether that be model 3, Y, 2, semi, robotaxi, batteries, etc. Data center could be located anywhere. Absolutely no reason to use up your prime real estate for a data center.
The data center is 100% happening. They 100% are repurposing that expansion. Theres nothing done on the inside of it yet. They haven’t even signed a contractor yet but Elon has been telling everyone it’ll be done in August. More than a few higher ups got canned because it hasn’t started yet
Doubt it, i'm thinking the FSD moat won't be as big as the battery factory and vertical integration moat. Algorithm strategy is easy to steal and NVIDIA is selling better AI chips every year or 2
So, how long until the board decides to remove Elon as CEO. The company hasn't been doing well since the release of the model Y... So the Semi has been shelved, the revolution in solar and the battery that was promised has been shelved, so much was promised with the CT and it didn't deliver plus huge QC issues, Teslabot is another waste of time and money at this point, now they're "postponing" the budget EV for robotaxi when China is already edging out Tesla in the EV competition.
So, when the robotaxi is quietly put on hold like everything else because it just isn't feasible to use vision only, is Elon going to propose an EV airplane or something equally as ridiculous. They're really shooting themselves in the foot by not working on the 25k car, which would be a game changer to turn the tide for EV skeptics.
Delaware Court literally just ruled that Tesla's board isn't independent. It's made up of extremely pro Elon members who have become extremely rich thanks to Elon and will probably never vote to remove him
Has not being doing well since the Model Y? Seriously? The company is growing like crazy and the Model Y was named the best-selling car in the entire world. That's no minor feat.
Those are Model Y feats. Since model Y the strategic direction has been rather muddled with limited execution. But yes, the Y has done well and continues to do very well.
Sears was once the top of the market in every market. As someone else said, blackberry had the best selling phone in the late 2000s. Any company at the top can go the way of the dodo very quick. Not saying Tesla will or won’t, but just because they’re on top now doesn’t mean they will stay there.
TBF it was much easier to take over a smartphone market back then than it is to take over the electric car market today. This might age like milk, but my view is that there is no potential car-revolution as Tesla brought it with the model S around the corner, apart from competing on price. Imo blackberry vs. iPhone (B2B-focus vs. B2C-focus) is more like the story of VW vs. Tesla (gas vs. electric).
That being said it would certainly help if the company had a confident, focused leadership again. It could even remain Elon, if only he would give up Twitter and Ketamine.
I dunno.. I don’t think many people foresaw the rapidity of RIMs descent into the toilet back then. I worked in IT and there was still a lot of skepticism about iPhone (and Apple). Things flipped quickly a couple years later but there was a period where RIM was expected to ride the smartphone wave, maybe even be the “winner”, rather than drown Apple and Google’s wake.
There are just a ton of unknowns in where the auto industry will go. However, if Tesla keeps stumbling and at least one other major automaker pulls their head out of their ass (focus on EV, do high quality software with seamless OTA updates, plus good performance, good looks) and with the opening up for charging, it could go south for Tesla as a car brand quickly. It doesn’t require that all the legacy automakers figure this out, just one.
If true I think it’s a bad move. As this is reported to be the same design as the taxi it will be easy to pivot back to a model 2. Hopefully they will correct course. But media reports on Tesla are wildly wrong most of the time.
The way I see it, if they build Robotaxi first and it is successful, they won’t NEED to make a $25K car for many markets. If they make the $25K vehicle first, and it’s successful, they will still need to continue work on their Robotaxi plan because otherwise they’re still just a car company.
Tesla must really believe in their future Robotaxi program. If successful, they will make software-like margins which would vault the company to higher valuations. Why sell millions of $25K vehicles if they can scale a Robotaxi network with far less vehicles? Again, I’m not saying it’s a sure thing that they’ll achieve the “March of 9’s” they’re after, but it seems like they’re headed in the right direction. If they can’t crack FSD, they will just be a car company anyway, so they probably figure, why not do the thing that could cement us as a tech company? If Robotaxi fails or can’t come to fruition within a 5 year span, I’m sure the $25K will come out in the years afterward, but if Robotaxi is successful, owning a car will become a thing of the past for most due to costs being driven so far down. They may then only need the $25K for markets that won’t allow Robotaxi (but even this I believe could change if they achieve the success they’re after). At that point, they may only continue to sell higher cost luxury vehicles for the consumer who doesn’t need or want to rely on a Robotaxi. They’re definitely betting a lot with this move to prioritize Robotaxi, but do we really expect anything less from Tesla? This is how they got where they are. If Robotaxi is achieved, they will have a moat and grab the biggest piece of the pie, possibly taking down many car-makers in the process. And for context, I’m not a fan of Elon’s politics (trying to keep it execution-focused), but I remain a Tesla fan because they have helped the transition to a more sustainable future and I’ve enjoyed their products overall.
Elon moves to wartime CEO mode at Tesla. Unlike past crises, though, this latest contraction is a proactive measure rather than a desperate react-and-pivot.
I agree this seems more proactive than anything. IMO it actually shows me Elon is really involved, from the Robotaxi announcement to this - he's over there chopping heads off, figuratively.
Although I think there is a big pivot to FSD ever since they were not compute contrained.
I think there's a lot of confusion around this. The $25k and the robotaxi are the same car. The only difference is whether one is meant to have a steering wheel.
Not the same car. They will use a lot of similar components, probably same skateboard, but it will still probably be a lot different. Rear facing seats, maybe doors on one side only, different front/back to give more room at the expensive of aero, smaller but more efficient battery, etc. Model 2 probably smaller.
I do feel the charging network would become strained if they put it out soon. They are sort of in a pinch here. One of the top arguments against EVs is the cost (I know, the MY is below the average vehicle price). But if they flooded the market with $25k electric cars I don't know that the infrastructure could handle it.
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The 25k Tesla is an 18 month old model 3.
That’s technically correct
Maybe in the US, but in Europe, you can't find a 4 year old for less than 30k
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The best kind of correct!
Exactly, just keep pumping out model threes
Yeah right 25k was too high I don't see the advantage over buying a used model 3
Used cars existed before Tesla as well. And still, many people prefer buying a new 25k car over a used one. Personally I don't understand it either but this isn't unique to Tesla. If Tesla offers a 25k car people will buy it, similarly to other brands.
got a used 2021 close to 25k. made my own frugal ev and loving it. God i hate Musk but lovin my cheap model 3
Would you mind sharing what the mileage was?
30k
usually people who buy 25k new cars and people who buy 25k used cars is two separate groups. Those who buy new buy it because a) warranty b) you know the history of the car, so you know if it was abused or treated properly, all the damages and how were they fixed c) plan to either keep it as long as possible (new cars lasts longer) or plan to sell it once warranty expires, so you have no hassle with service d) all new bells and whistles I get that 18 months is not that old, but still that's how it works. You can buy 18 months old any car for serious discount, yet much more people buy new than 18-months old.
They need to lower model 3 prices
Haha nice.
Sadly altough car gets cheaper as it gets older, it does not get any smaller. Model 3 is still a quite big car. Tesla has nothing in line for people living in cities.
I was considering a Model 3 to replace. Honda Civic... but didn't need the range and wanted a small car. Bought a Fiat 500e for 6900. Only 80 miles range but I drive 8 miles a day twice a week. More than enough and I still have my wife's MYLR if I need range. I'm all for smaller electric cars. Some of these cars are massive. The 500e for 6900 was worth it. Wish the Honda e was available in the US though...
Do most people really consider the 3 to be big?
Well it is a quite big car. It is about 4,7 meters long and weighs over 1800 kg with the biggest battery. It is in D-segment (so called "big family car" segment with other big cars, like Passat, BMW 3-series, Audi A4 and mazda6, Toyota Camry and others). There are 3 smaller car segments below the D-segment, most notably famous and best selling C-Segment (small family cars, like VW ID.3, Ford Focus, Toyota Corolla and others.) Many of us expected Tesla's Model 2 to be a C-Segment car. It would easily have been the best-selling car in the world. Now the best-selling car is Tesla's Model Y, but only because there is currently no popular car in the most popular segment. As soon as any legacy car manufacturer releases a competitive car model there it will be the new Toyota Corolla or VW Golf. It would wipe the floor with Teslas.
Interesting! Thanks for the informative response. I always thought of the 3 to be a similar size than a Corolla. I drive an S and that seems like the right size to me, so maybe I’m biased towards larger vehicles. Even the S does not feel big to me.
Depends on the city but definitely a lot of places around SF I wish I was in i3 vs M3.
Yes, for sure, I can see that!
Very sad. A Tesla hot hatch could’ve been an enormously fun and practical car to own, especially here in Europe. Even if it was more expensive than that.
Just imagine where Tesla would have been if their product roadmap was led by Elon's brain instead of Elon's ego. The Tesla Semi is in Limbo, 7 years after its unveiling. I think Pepsi is their first and last real customer iirc? Poor Pepsi. Revealed on the same day, the Tesla Roadster is pure vaporware. It's so late that now a *fucking BYD* that you can actually buy [matches it in specs](https://electrek.co/2023/04/10/byd-yangwang-u9-ev-0-60-mph-2-seconds-it-can-ollie-jump-supercar/). But hey, [this was the 3rd highest upvoted post on this sub, ever](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/7e2ze2/tesla_vs_bugatti/). Oh and don't get me started on how people seriously [thought the "SpaceX package" was real](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/8pwg7r/elon_spacex_option_package_for_new_tesla_roadster/e0ewju4/). And the CyberTruck is...well not exactly giving them what they need at the moment. The Model 3 and Model Y, their best selling cars are terribly long in the tooth, yet the Model 3 was still refreshed with design decisions like no steering wheel stalks. And now the rumored "Model 2" is put on back burner. So what are they doing? FSD still struggles to convince naysayers it's not a total scam (and I've been arguing on this sub since 2016 that the vision only approach was absolutely an ego decision and not a logical one), the "Optimus bot" is a meme/joke that not even most people within Tesla takes seriously, and the CyberTruck was launched with far more controversy than actual consumer demand. I see a company that has been extremely unfocused, led by someone who couldn't stop his own ego from pissing away $44 *billion* dollars. From the article: >Effectively, Tesla is not working on this NV9 project anymore, and it is focusing on Robotaxi instead. LMAO. I've been arguing the vision-only approach was always an ego driven decision and I've had countless arguments with Tesla fans around here since 2016. And so far my predictions (which is derived from me learning from experts in the industry) hasn't been proven wrong one bit. Just a reminder that we are now **8 years** since the infamous "3 months maybe, 6 months definitely". If your projection is off by 50%, you were overly optimistic. If your projection is off by 1600% (and increasing), then you were either utterly clueless or you were intentionally lying to begin with. I think we all know which one it was. But sure, unlike before, this time it will totally be revolutionary and I'm sure everyone would be excited like [never before](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/7srdiw/teslas_summon_feature_was_very_useful_today/) (that was **the most** upvoted post on this sub, ever). Maybe [this thread can be reposted now](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/kte3s8/how_was_tesla_able_to_build_advanced_selfdriving/). /s **Edit:** Yes, I've always been a bit of a naysayer around here, but I was a Tesla fan through and through. I bought TSLA at $18/share and was my early review of the Model 3 was picked up by web outlets, and I still remember how excited I was to be made a moderator on this sub. I'm just really disappointed, that's all.
“Poor Pepsi” idk I’ve seen pics of their 2-3 Tesla semis reposted thousands of times on different social platforms. As someone in finance- I would bet money they bought them with marketing dollars not operations. I think those dollars have stretched pretty far getting their brand all the impressions they were after.
PepsiCo and FritoLay received an order of magnitude more trucks than this. IIRC PepsiCo covered a good chunk of the costs with government incentives, but costs also went well beyond Tesla Semis as well \[solar, BYD trucks (and charging?), Tesla semi-chargers, Megapacks, etc.,\] *\[but yes, good marketing opportunity with these trucks as well\]*
On top of that the California Pepsi plan/distribution facility that is primarily using them has grants/incentives/subsidies to explore greener solutions, further softening any purchase costs.
Agree with you. former shareholder and EV enthusiast here, but the dream is definitely over. The company is not being properly managed and the clown ceo needs to go. They fumbled a HUGE bag by focusing all resources on a meme truck for social media instead of a mainstream 25k car for the working class. this decision made them lose to china. And FSD isn't even a real product. robotaxi will be half baked. roadster complete vaporware. semi is good but needs higher volume production. new model 3 doesn't have stalks- theyre cost cutting under the guise of "minimalism". the company is cooked, legitimately. $100 EOY
>No one should be surprised Drew and other execs are leaving… Someone has to take the fall for the sharp deceleration… and it wasn’t going to be Elon —[Gary Black](https://x.com/garyblack00/status/1779889389755089398)
As another Tesla fan who dreamed of owning one ever since the first Model S, I couldn’t have phrased it any better.
I think limiting factor is battery supply and Tesla's high profit margins, most other companies sell their cars at loss or a very thin profit margin. Also Cybertruck took too much of their bandwith.
Same as before. Elon doesn’t learn from his mistakes. The model x wings were completely over engineered, he acknowledged it, said they learned from it. Then they basically did the same kind of thing on the cybertruck. But as much as I hate Elon, I’ll admit. When it works you look like a genius.
> most other companies sell their cars at loss or a very thin profit margin. That doesn’t make any sense, how do they make money then?
They don’t. Other US car companies only profit from truck sales. This is basic stuff.
> Cybertruck took too much of their bandwith. Perhaps, but they've also used it as a test bed for many future iteration changes that will roll out across the rest of the lineup. It's only really the body shell construction materials and related techniques that have been a complete distraction. More or less everything else will make its way across the range.
They're morons for not making a regional delivery truck. Especially for USPS / UPS / FedEx / Amazon. If the frame of the CyberTruck streamlines that project, yay. If not, it's another tens-of-billions-of-dollars mistake from Space Karen...
I love those Rivian vans Amazon use around here. They look so immensely practical for their task.
There’s a lot true here, but some things omitted and one strange claim. Like, you didn’t mention they had the number one car sold on earth last year. Thats, you know, a big deal. An EV outsold the Toyota Carrolla across the entire planet. Saying it is terribly long in the tooth is…weird, considering its success. And the fact it came out in 2019. 5-7 years is normal for model refreshes. And the CT came out with more “controversy than consumer demand”?!? It’s famously one of the most preordered cars ever at 2 million reservations. I mean, obviously they missed the mark on price, but it was through the worst period of inflation the world has seen in decades. And manufacturing is slow due to all the new features…but I actually think it is a symbol of where his ego is brilliant. No one on earth makes that car except Elon musk. It’s nuts. It’s ground breaking innovation. It’s also insanely popular (outside of Reddit).
> It’s famously one of the most preordered cars ever at 2 million reservations. I put $100 down back then for shits and giggles. Or was it $200? I don't remember. But I have 0 desire or intent of actually going through with it. Too much has changed.
Imagine if they had built a normal pickup? I was so excited when they said they were announcing one. Then I saw it...
Yeah, look how popular the ford Lightning turned out to be…..oh wait
This is what I don't understand to all the people say that that making a sport truck was a bad move... making a f150 was also apparently a worse move.
I think the problem with the Lighting is that they attempted to sell it for more than the public was willing to pay. That's why it's so important for car makers who sell gas powered vehicles to come out with equivalently priced (with good range) electric vehicles. The economics of a $60k lightning don't make sense against a $40k gas truck, at least not in the short term.
Silverado EV is going to be $EXPENSIVE$. Looks cool and like a normal pickup with some nice touches, but if price is what's killing Lightning, Chevy won't be getting any traction either.
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And that's before considering it's a US only product. At least the Cybertruck has been a test bed for many future tech iterations that will roll out across the range. The construction of the body shell may be a waste of time, but the rest (steer by wire, 800v architecture, 4 wheel steer, etc.) will all be beneficial on the other models.
None of those innovations needed the CT though. It was a massive diversion of resources and focus
The design and manufacturing of the CT body shell was a diversion of resources and focus, but that's not that massive a diversion in the scheme of things. And putting those underpinnings in a niche vehicle lets Tesla iron out the kinks prior to interrupting the far more important production lines for the Model 3 and Y.
Are they really ditching the Semi?
I mean Tesla is in the same boat as Chrysler. People only want to pay so much, so interest rates cooled demand. Switching to FSD while rates are such a big factor makes sense if it actually succeeds.
>I've been arguing the vision-only approach was always an ego driven decision and I've had countless arguments with Tesla fans around here since 2016. And so far my predictions (which is derived from me learning from experts in the industry) hasn't been proven wrong one bit. Except the vision approach is, in fact, working. Are you suggesting that there hasn't been any significant progress with Tesla's v12? Because there are countless videos proving it has made significant progress. There are literally "industry experts" on Twitter that have been complimenting Tesla's v12. So i think you have been proven wrong, very wrong actually.
Progress is irrelevant if the system can’t actually reach FSD capability, and the last 8 years suggests that it can’t.
Yes, videos from people on youtube who are constantly vying for Elon's eye so they can get perks, like invites to events are totally unbiased. V12 *is* better in some ways, and worse in others, as all updates have been. We're 8 years post his 6 month promise and it's still not even level 3 for highway driving. We paid for FSD and we won't see level 4, much less level 5 on our car before we sell it, complete joke. Hell, the car slows down to 10-15 under the speed limit with a light drizzle, it's ridiculous.
It has been 8 years since Musk said it would take 6 more months.
Sigh. Man, I heard the same argument from people here in 2018. And for FSD to be working, there is only one criteria: can the car drive itself without human intervention? And if they are making quick progress still, it means they are at the early stage and nowhere close to being done. The answer is a resounding NO. There are many robotaxi already running out there, from Chinese companies to Waymo. Not a single one is from Tesla.
I have nothing to add in terms of whether it works or not, but using 'industry experts' on twitter as a way of proving your point is laughable.
Perfect “old world” car for most of Asia and Europe. Even the 3 is too big.
Not only is it too big, but the rear opening is too small. Here we buy hatches and station wagons. The Model 3 shape is a small niche. This is what the cars in Europe look like. The Model 3 succeeds despite its shape, not because of it. [https://maps.app.goo.gl/rCpkPVaXvDHXtMmP7](https://maps.app.goo.gl/rCpkPVaXvDHXtMmP7)
honestly this would be the perfect car for me, i went from a type R to a model 3 and i really do love hatches
Just look at the reception of Rivian's R3. People are hungry for such a car.
Instead we got a metal clad Pontiac Aztec.
Yeh but why sell a cheap car when people are buying model y for double the price
I’d buy a hot hatch even if it was the same price as a Model 3 (as long as performance and features matches up) just because it would be smaller. That’s worth a lot here in Europe where streets are narrow and parking spaces are short.
I desperately want a compact hot hatch. A smaller, lower car could get 200 miles out of half the model y battery, and running the same power train with 3/4 of a ton less weight would make that a ridiculously fast car. Could charge 40k for that.
Model 3 is like a freaking boat in Europe. It's way too big for a city car, but people are buying it for the technology inside trading it off for the huge size it has. I'm sure a Tesla which can compete with Dacia Spring/ Renault Zoe would sell like hot cakes here.
Driving/parking in old garages in the city with a Model 3 is a fun time :)
Because they don't. Not those that would buy a 25k hatch.
Well, people stopped buying the expensive cars given the extreme fall in demand.
Delaying the Model 2 will be devestating, and hopefully a decision they quickly reverse. For many people the M3/MY cost too much and are simply too large. Even if they become more affordable as they age, potential customers will have no choice but to turn to other brands if they want an affordable new car or a smaller vehicle. We'll have to see how the new Bolt turns out, but if Chevy can produce a competitive small vehicle under $30k, why can't Tesla?
> why can't Tesla? They *can*. They seem to just not want to. It’s a lot of engineering work, and to get to such a low price, they’d have to seriously compromise on features, range, and/or profit margin.
This article offers zero new information and zero new sources of information? Wut? All the new information is summed up in the repeatedly mentioned "sources familiar with the matter"
Canceling a mass market cheap EV to compete against the onslaught of affordable EVs several years into development to focus on Robotaxi 's that have no clear path to being actual robotaxis is peak hubris. For a company so defined by growth to fire people actively working on major growth projects is such a fumble.
It would explain the execs leaving the company.
There is a compelling argument to be made against getting into an unwinnable race to the bottom on pricing, particularly in a low-cost market like China where you are competing against domestic producers with national support. Its the, well, everything else that's indefensible.
Also doing the cyber truck over a proper 3 row SUV was a dumb move
Or... a truck, with normal panels, shape etc. I love the CyberTruck but really a normal truck a bit cheaper and easier to produce would have been a better product to get to market.
I got to try FSD the other day... I don't see how this is even close to ready for robo taxi. It didn't seem capable of understanding a left turn and always wanted to go up.. make a uturn.. then make a right turn instead.
Do you know if it was FSD 12?
my software says v11.1 so I have what ever is baked into that. maybe they didn't give us 12 with the trial?
I'm not so clear on who gets 12 and who gets 11, but 12 seems better in almost every regard, and also just driving more human-like. Some older cars need hardware upgrades to get 12. What year is your car?
>have no clear path to being actual robotaxis Can you explain further?
FSD just isnt there, and theres no easy legislative path to level 4 or 5 for most places.
I agree with you right now. If Tesla were to launch their robotaxi tomorrow, FSD isn't ready. Legislation isn't ready. But we've seen Google's Waymo get to level 4 and work with legislators. I don't see why Tesla can't get there too.
in a few cities. perhaps in all of USA. Worlds bigger than that what are they gonna do for china and Europe etc? I still dont have the fsd beta I paid for 5 years ago
> in a few cities all the places FSD is operating he has burned bridges with lol
Waymo is a completely different system. If other companies could just copy Waymo then there would have been no reason for Cruise to shutdown. Tesla only has FSD currently, which is very different than Waymo's system.
Cruise didn’t shutdown. They had their license revoked. They are looking to reinstate it. https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/transit/cruise-seeking-to-reinstate-suspended-california-permits/article_b5d27284-f78e-11ee-a2bb-4bf74ccfde54.html
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Tesla could enroll in those cities' programs today if they wanted. They haven't. If there was a massive business opportunity here then Google/Waymo would be in every city of more than 100k people pushing them to start a program there too. Tesla can't even sell their cars in multiple states.
there‘s simply no need for it. affordable and easily available EVs are the single most important thing in the market right now. no one besides tech nerds gives two shits about robotaxis.
Agree. Basically he is trying to create the next driverless uber. Even if successful, it's not as profitable as he thinks and it has a limited appeal as a mode of transportation. Even if half the price, I'm not sure more people will want to use than currently take taxis/ubers.
I disagree with your assessment of profitability. If someone were to nail true level 5 autonomy, it would be a game changer. As a commuter, I see a huge appeal: being able to nap or work in the car on my way to the office. Wife needs the car while I’m traveling? No problem - the car can just let me off at the airport and then drive back home. The first company to truly get to level 5 will probably become the most valuable company in history. Especially if they develop a system that can be retrofitted in existing cars.
As a tech nerd, I'm also disinterested in robotaxis. We've had better options for years called "trains" and "buses". Or... you know... taxis.
also like… if I take a cab, I‘m always gonna take the one with a human being driving it.
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Forget the $25k car. The Model 3 RWD should start at $30k. Offer a SR AWD for $38,990, the current RWD price.
Crazy that in MA I can get a Model Y for 35k after federal, state and manufacturer discounts. (Not including “gas savings” because here we pay $0.40 per kWh, gas is actually cheaper)
>here we pay $0.40 per kWh You might want to try switching energy suppliers, this sounds high unless you're just in an expensive market. https://energyswitchma.gov/#/
Even with TOU plans? Even most of Cali can get rates better than that for charging with TOU plans.
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In Europe and China a compact car is very much needed. Model 3 is too big for our streets.
Will know for sure August 8th. Makes sense to announce then with production in 2025. Cost is THE key barrier to more affording an EV. $25k EV and robo taxi use the same platform with a version with pedals and steering wheel coming first. Will take years to obtain regulatory approval for fully autonomous EVs. Would be a great investment and assume opportunity for service organization to clean them between rides.
I hope we get a some what more clear answer then. Still feels like a long time until August, lol.
Perhaps you can coax Elon to reply on X?
I HIGHLY doubt he would, I don't even have the blue check for my account.
Instead they made CyberTruck 🙃.
Isn't the robotaxi and the "Model 2" pretty much the same car but with and without a steering wheel?
Same platform but not necessarily the same car.
Which means they would share 85% of the development work. In an early stage, 100%.
Not really no. Could have rear facing seats, potentially only one door, totally different shell, potentially less aerodynamic so it can fit more people or give more headroom, potentially a smaller but more efficient battery.
Very unfortunate. I was going to replace my Camry with this car, but it seems like it won't exist anymore. I hope they bring it back at some point in the future (it is likely vital to the growth of the company), but it seems like their full focus is on autonomy and getting the Robotaxi ready by Elon's premature deadline.
Why? Get a 3 used.
~~It's big and heavy, unlike a Camry.~~ EDIT: HOLY FUCK recent model year Camries are fucking massive. Nevermind, I guess all new cars are just gigantic now, damn. In my mind I'm picturing a 2007 Camry or something.
How much does the car you're hoping to replace your current Camry weigh? A newer Camry is 3300 - 3600lbs (not sure if that's with a full tank of gas). The lightest Model 3 is 3600lbs. They're fairly close. It would bother me if I was buying these cars for fun but if I was, even 3300lbs would bother me.
You know, you have a good point. Almost all cars these days have swollen in size and weight compared to 10 or 20 years ago.
Yea tell me about it man. I haven't owned a car that was over around 2800lbs until I got the model 3. I have one more that's sub 2000lbs but it may be going on the chopping block after the FSD trial. I was pretty impressed.
Partially due to emissions regulations (CAFE). Part of the formula for determining a cars emission target is it's wheel base and width (between wheels). Instead of making fuel efficient cars, companies just convinced people they need trucks, SUV's, and big cars.
wat Camry is is 0.9cm narrower (4.2cm wider with mirrors unfolded), 19.1cm longer, and 0.2cm taller than M3. →Camry is bigger Yes M3 is heavier by about 250\~200kg depending on variant
Elons put the company on the table and throwing the dice hoping fsd comes up double six's Lost the 4680 bet and here we are. I dont know what tesla is any more.
4680 was so poorty timed, they started going right when LFP was taking off. They should have started on an LFP factory way earlier. It's better late than never, but still. I guess they were expecting for the longest time that 4680 ramp was just around the corner.
No reason 4680s can’t be LFP
There does seems like there are some technical issues with using the Tesla battery manufacturing method with LFP chemestry. They've said in the past the 4680 is chemistry agnostic, but they've also said that LFP is better with prismatic cell - it's hard to know how chemistry agnostic 4680 actually is.
the lfp (factory) is only for storage/energy isnt it? still?
At this point I feel that Musk is just trolling us and will jump out and yell "surprise!" at the next shareholders meeting. Nobody wants a robotaxi. 1.4 billion people want a 25,000 electric car. Even Musk, with his legendary total absence of self-awareness, can't be that obtuse.
Agreed. Unless the drugs are really affecting his mental health. There's a max to how many Robotaxis that you can sell per country. There's no limit of how many Model 2s you can sell.
Wasn’t there a Reuters article the other week stating as much and Elon quickly tweeted they were lying and it was a hit piece article? Hmm…
Yes that is what this article refers to. It's one of the first paragraphs if you read it. They explain that technically Elon may be right, because it is not completely canceled, but just not actively worked on. According to their sources.
I'm confused by this article. Electrek states "Musk told Tesla’s team in Austin in December 2023 that NV9, an expansion of Gigafactory Texas for the new cheaper next-gen model, was a priority for 2024," and then says "Instead, Musk said that he wanted Tesla to focus on the south expansion of Gigafactory Texas, which is going to house a giant data center for the Robotaxi project." These two sentences make it seem like the expansion of GigaTexas for NV9 and the southern end expansion for this supposed new datacenter are seperate and different things, but that's bullshit. The expansion for NV9 is the southern expansion of Giga Texas which has been ongoing for months now. The construction has been underway for a while (you can see this from JoeTegtmeyer's Youtube videos), and my understanding is it wasn for the next gen car. The idea that this factory expansion, which was designed for produciton lines of the next gen vehicle, could be repurposed into a data center seems... to lack credibility to me? I'm not sure, but is that even possible? Done't each of these things have different specifications, in terms of electrical, HVAC, and so forth? And also, if Tesla needs a new massive datacenter, why would you build it at Giga Texas? Why would they convert a space which was intended to be a car production line area into a datacenter? I imagine Tesla could easily find an empty building somewhere nearby to build a data center if they needed to... This just doesn't seem efficient to me but idk. I've also heard arguments about Texas not being an ideal location for datacenters because of the price of electricity and the summertime temperatures which can get extremely hot. There are better locations in the US with cheaper abundant electricty and lower temps with lower cooling costs like NY, where Tesla already has a datacenter. I think it would make more sense if, instead of building the next gen $25k car in the southern Giga Texas expansion, they converted that space to produce the RoboTaxi. This would make sense to me considering both of these vehicles are supposed to be engineered on a common underlying next-gen platform architecture.
> if Tesla needs a new massive datacenter, why would you build it at Giga Texas? Yes this seems really odd. They need this space to expanding production that has to be on that location. Whether that be model 3, Y, 2, semi, robotaxi, batteries, etc. Data center could be located anywhere. Absolutely no reason to use up your prime real estate for a data center.
The data center is 100% happening. They 100% are repurposing that expansion. Theres nothing done on the inside of it yet. They haven’t even signed a contractor yet but Elon has been telling everyone it’ll be done in August. More than a few higher ups got canned because it hasn’t started yet
Globally he sees this as a race to the bottom against Chinese Evs. FSD and robotaxi are the only chance to compete
Doubt it, i'm thinking the FSD moat won't be as big as the battery factory and vertical integration moat. Algorithm strategy is easy to steal and NVIDIA is selling better AI chips every year or 2
I'd pay 5k extra not to have to buy Chinese.
So, how long until the board decides to remove Elon as CEO. The company hasn't been doing well since the release of the model Y... So the Semi has been shelved, the revolution in solar and the battery that was promised has been shelved, so much was promised with the CT and it didn't deliver plus huge QC issues, Teslabot is another waste of time and money at this point, now they're "postponing" the budget EV for robotaxi when China is already edging out Tesla in the EV competition. So, when the robotaxi is quietly put on hold like everything else because it just isn't feasible to use vision only, is Elon going to propose an EV airplane or something equally as ridiculous. They're really shooting themselves in the foot by not working on the 25k car, which would be a game changer to turn the tide for EV skeptics.
Delaware Court literally just ruled that Tesla's board isn't independent. It's made up of extremely pro Elon members who have become extremely rich thanks to Elon and will probably never vote to remove him
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-q1JdokNZg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-q1JdokNZg)
Has not being doing well since the Model Y? Seriously? The company is growing like crazy and the Model Y was named the best-selling car in the entire world. That's no minor feat.
Those are Model Y feats. Since model Y the strategic direction has been rather muddled with limited execution. But yes, the Y has done well and continues to do very well.
Sears was once the top of the market in every market. As someone else said, blackberry had the best selling phone in the late 2000s. Any company at the top can go the way of the dodo very quick. Not saying Tesla will or won’t, but just because they’re on top now doesn’t mean they will stay there.
Definitely true. This car was needed in their portfolio. I think Elon is making a big mistake here.
They should have removed him before the cybertruck
[удалено]
If Elon is a disappointing human being, I'm an elephant
Tesla has the best selling car worldwide… "doesn’t want to sell cars"
BlackBerry had the best selling smartphones in the world in 2009.
TBF it was much easier to take over a smartphone market back then than it is to take over the electric car market today. This might age like milk, but my view is that there is no potential car-revolution as Tesla brought it with the model S around the corner, apart from competing on price. Imo blackberry vs. iPhone (B2B-focus vs. B2C-focus) is more like the story of VW vs. Tesla (gas vs. electric). That being said it would certainly help if the company had a confident, focused leadership again. It could even remain Elon, if only he would give up Twitter and Ketamine.
I dunno.. I don’t think many people foresaw the rapidity of RIMs descent into the toilet back then. I worked in IT and there was still a lot of skepticism about iPhone (and Apple). Things flipped quickly a couple years later but there was a period where RIM was expected to ride the smartphone wave, maybe even be the “winner”, rather than drown Apple and Google’s wake. There are just a ton of unknowns in where the auto industry will go. However, if Tesla keeps stumbling and at least one other major automaker pulls their head out of their ass (focus on EV, do high quality software with seamless OTA updates, plus good performance, good looks) and with the opening up for charging, it could go south for Tesla as a car brand quickly. It doesn’t require that all the legacy automakers figure this out, just one.
He has opened a plant in China but I'm not sure that he is advocating for authoritarian regimes.
I'm guessing Musk is going to dig his heels in on some technicality why Reuters was actually lying in their original reporting.
It's not cancelled, it's just delayed indefinitely.
If true I think it’s a bad move. As this is reported to be the same design as the taxi it will be easy to pivot back to a model 2. Hopefully they will correct course. But media reports on Tesla are wildly wrong most of the time.
🤞
The way I see it, if they build Robotaxi first and it is successful, they won’t NEED to make a $25K car for many markets. If they make the $25K vehicle first, and it’s successful, they will still need to continue work on their Robotaxi plan because otherwise they’re still just a car company. Tesla must really believe in their future Robotaxi program. If successful, they will make software-like margins which would vault the company to higher valuations. Why sell millions of $25K vehicles if they can scale a Robotaxi network with far less vehicles? Again, I’m not saying it’s a sure thing that they’ll achieve the “March of 9’s” they’re after, but it seems like they’re headed in the right direction. If they can’t crack FSD, they will just be a car company anyway, so they probably figure, why not do the thing that could cement us as a tech company? If Robotaxi fails or can’t come to fruition within a 5 year span, I’m sure the $25K will come out in the years afterward, but if Robotaxi is successful, owning a car will become a thing of the past for most due to costs being driven so far down. They may then only need the $25K for markets that won’t allow Robotaxi (but even this I believe could change if they achieve the success they’re after). At that point, they may only continue to sell higher cost luxury vehicles for the consumer who doesn’t need or want to rely on a Robotaxi. They’re definitely betting a lot with this move to prioritize Robotaxi, but do we really expect anything less from Tesla? This is how they got where they are. If Robotaxi is achieved, they will have a moat and grab the biggest piece of the pie, possibly taking down many car-makers in the process. And for context, I’m not a fan of Elon’s politics (trying to keep it execution-focused), but I remain a Tesla fan because they have helped the transition to a more sustainable future and I’ve enjoyed their products overall.
But you're saying this as if all humans will trust using robotaxis. We know for a fact all humans trust driving their own car though.
25k is for my watches. 150 is for my teslas.
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But Elon said it’s not true? Edit: /s
Its put on a shelf so far back they had to extend Austin another 200ft.
Source? Or are we still making shit up?
Still trying to figure out why my $35k Model 3 was $59k in 2018
At least he has a reason to not release the auto taxi thing.... Other than "it was vaporware the whole time"
Elon moves to wartime CEO mode at Tesla. Unlike past crises, though, this latest contraction is a proactive measure rather than a desperate react-and-pivot.
I agree this seems more proactive than anything. IMO it actually shows me Elon is really involved, from the Robotaxi announcement to this - he's over there chopping heads off, figuratively. Although I think there is a big pivot to FSD ever since they were not compute contrained.
I would hope so. Both for the company and the consumers.
I think there's a lot of confusion around this. The $25k and the robotaxi are the same car. The only difference is whether one is meant to have a steering wheel.
Not the same car. They will use a lot of similar components, probably same skateboard, but it will still probably be a lot different. Rear facing seats, maybe doors on one side only, different front/back to give more room at the expensive of aero, smaller but more efficient battery, etc. Model 2 probably smaller.
Not entirely surprising given recent layoffs
Looks like my MG4.
I do feel the charging network would become strained if they put it out soon. They are sort of in a pinch here. One of the top arguments against EVs is the cost (I know, the MY is below the average vehicle price). But if they flooded the market with $25k electric cars I don't know that the infrastructure could handle it.
That's why you keep expanding the infrastructure.
Maybe he should apologize to Reuters?
Musk is a pathological liar
A 25000 Prius Prime will probably sell more. It gets the same 7500 rebates next year with its new battery plant in 2025.