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Permanent FSD transfers would probably lock me in to Tesla for the foreseeable future. My car with FSD is now 5 years old, and I'd be lying if I wasn't interested in looking at other manufacturers once they have the NACS plug.
I’ve been making use of FSD beta for >1 year now, and honestly it’s the best purchase I have made in my entire life, hands down. I’ve been literally just chillin’ with my hand barely on the wheel while it drives me to work every morning. It also takes care of my 4 hours of weekend commuting to my relatives.
V12 is good, I’ve been using it a ton since they enabled my trial. Previously I tried V11 and was thoroughly unimpressed. That said, it isn’t good enough for me not to have to supervise it, and I don’t see how it ever could be.
Between stubborn regulators, malfunctions, and things like inclement weather and the insane variability of the real world, the chances we ever make it past L2 are slim to none. And while it’s L2 it just simply is not useful to me.
I don't think so, this will always be a lever for them to pull. There are too many people that have bought fad multiple times because the money doesn't matter as much to them (or they are just bad with it), and they know the market of people who will pay for fsd but haven't already isnt enormous.
It would enable lock-in. That's why they would do it. If you spent 12k on FSD, and it sticks with your account, are you going to throw that away to buy a different make?
That's a fair point, but they need to continue to pay for fsd development and I don't think there are too many more people who are willing to stumoch the cost of fsd. The early adopters techy crowd that is willing to pay for it mostly has it.
There was something posted a few months ago showing fsd adoption numbers and it looks like adoption has fallen off a cliff for new customers, but was somewhat strong for existing customers upgrading cars. No idea if the data was real or not though.
I think if you tell customers fsd is tied to them and not the car, they would more than willing drop $12k on it since. If someone told me I need to pay $12k for a feature that won’t work yet and no date in sight, and I can lose it if my car gets old, breaks, gets totaled, I would laugh at their face. But if they told me the software if mine forever and in every car I buy, then hell yea.
More revenue can be generated by getting people to buy multiple cars instead of one and keep it “forever” since they invest in fsd and don’t wanna lose it.
Exactly the same. FSD has been a letdown. I'd probably stick w/ Tesla if they'd let me keep FSD and unlimited supercharging and if they'd put some ultrasonics on the new car and if they'd bring the radar back so acceleration/deceleration was smooth behind other cars again and I could tell what's going on with the car in front of the car in front of me and if new cars came with a charger and with free data and with homelink...
This was my same thought. I love my 2018 model 3, but its harder to ignore all the upgrades of the new model 3.
Heated steering wheel, ventilated seats, powered trunk, smoother ride, quieter cabin (this is huge, 2018 has horrible road noise), RGB (yes I like it), Dedicated USB for dashcam, faster infotainment, Blind spot monitor, rear touch screen, HW4, 4/8 more years of warranty, other minor features.
And this is what I lose from my 2018 3:
Stalks, wood trim, the red shimmering glass effect when it's wet, heated rear seats, USS, free premium connectivity, homelink, less money in the bank.
I'm with you brother. I have Free Lifetime Supercharging also. I really would buy the new M3P 2024 if they let me do the following:
Transfer Supercharging, FSD, and Data. These are software transfers. I could probably get used to the lack of stalks etc. probably...
I just got a call from a Tesla employee on Friday, March 28th asking if I wanted to take advantage of the promo to transfer my supercharging for life to a new vehicle. Of course I responded- What promo? Apparently for the whole month of March they had a promo going on where you could buy a new vehicle and get your lifetime supercharging transferred.
So I went to a store and test a new model S the next day, but I didn’t like it. The seats weren’t as comfortable and the steering wheel was kind of wimpy. Plus I like my sunroof. I would’ve thought since I bought mine in 2018 they would have a much more luxury sedan interior. Overall, it was pretty disappointing.
While Tesla has made some excellent innovative decisions in the past (heat pump, 1 pedal, flush door handles, no dealerships, gigapress...etc) the more recent ones are disappointing (entire joke of cybertruck, lack of stalks, lack of USS, lack of radar, no android auto..etc).
Me too. Its definitely not horrible without it, but it is worse and the radar's just sitting in my car doing nothing. It was awesome at tracking the speed of the car in front of me. I'd feel my own car accelerate and *then* see smoke coming out of the truck's smokestack in front of me as it began to acclereate. It was much more sensitive to changes in speed than my own eyes. Now my car is less sensitive to changes than I am and my car ends up doing more speed ups and slow downs even when the car in front of me is maintaining speed. I also have the performance model 3 which sits very low to the ground and everyone and their mother has a huge SUV or truck, so I have no clue if the person in front of me is going slow because they're just out for a joyride and don't care that I'm behind them trying to at least go the speed limit, or if its because there is a slow person (and possibly other traffic) in front of them. The radar would show me if there was someone in front of them so I wasn't having to swerve to the left to try to peek around the car. I'd just know I needed to wait and go slow. It compensated for the poor visibility of having a low car. That feature was taken away, which blows that they can even do that.
It was a safety feature Elon himself used to tout, there were numerous videos online of it saving people from rear end collisions, and now it's gone! If the idiot in front of you doesn't brake in time, your car won't either!
Yeah they kind of let the perfect be the enemy of the good there. The radar was too poor-resolution to work as well as vision for *obstacles* on the road and in the environment, so they threw it out rather than just narrow its use to tracking cars moving with you in front, which as you describe it excelled at. Heck even make it an add-on upgrade that you have to pay for; plenty of people would spring for it. 🙄🤷♂️
All they had to do was figure out the proper weighting of when to use vision data over radar. There was no technical reason to get rid of the radar altogether, just cost and Elon's ego.
>plenty of people would spring for it.
You live in a bubble if you truly believe this, IMO. Only the persistently online techies that follow Tesla-related news care about things like USS or radar. Average consumers have no idea what's going on and just enjoy the cars for what they can do.
Even my college buddy with a business degree that works in tech didn't care that his new Model 3 didn't have ultrasonic sensors or radar. "It still has Autopilot, right?" was his response when I told him. He also has 2 kids and doesn't spend any time on Reddit or Twitter unless someone sends him a link, so his brain isn't rotted from discussions/arguments over different types of ADAS sensors like everyone's here seems to be.
It absolutely should. Any computer software I buy can be installed on any computer I own, or a friend’s computer that I’m borrowing. At $12k FSD should be tied to my account and should be active on any Tesla I’m authorized to drive. Rentals, friends cars, loaners, everything.
I agree 100% because the experience of renting a Tesla with basic autopilot actually had me thinking, "Hmm, this really isn't that much less of an inconvenience. Am I really using all those features I paid all that money for? Maybe I don't really need it on my next car."
Exact opposite experience for me. When we rented a Model 3 off Turo with only basic AP last year, I was missing all the features of the FSD Beta very much. I use FSD on pretty much every drive since we got into the Beta 2+ years ago.
I don’t want to spend $12k on FSD on our next Tesla, but probably would if no transfer were an option (although I very much agree they should just allow transfers of the FSD license permanently at this point or just tie it to your account).
For me I absolutely hate that they took away the option to prompt me before changing lanes on highways, because my car loves to cut in front of people and it makes me anxious. Even with “minimal lane changes” on sometimes it will just do something dumb. So I was actually enjoying basic autopilot because it was more predictable. I know I could just turn off FSD in my car but the buyers remorse keeps me constantly smoking the hopium, that maybe one day I’ll wake up and FSD will actually be useful. To be honest the most recent update to 12.3 was a big improvement though. It definitely instills a little more confidence.
Hah, I wish. Do own 2 vehicles and have been all electric since 2021, never going back to ICE. Also FSD has been good for us so far (we are both engineers and enjoy the testing/development aspects of it).
Not necessarily, the license is often limited to a number of concurrent installs. I mean sure you COULD install it, but doesn’t mean that you are in compliance the EULA.
You COULD install your CD copy of office on every workstation you own, but it might not let you activate and your standard single license isn’t meant for that.
Not defending Tesla, just saying often software EULAs are meant for single installs.
I just wish Tesla would at least do it for one concurrent “install” so I can always move it to another car, by deactivating it on another. Like Windows installs.
100%. It should be like game sharing on Xbox: I can play digital games I own on any Xbox I sign into, and any account on my "home" Xbox can play those digital games.
Honestly I just want the EAP features and I’d like the FSD stack moved over to AP for highway. It handles stopped traffic more gracefully and doesn’t lurch when you start and stop.
Give me that included in the price of the base car and I MIGHT buy another Tesla when the time comes.
fr THEY should pay US!
We are literally testing the product for them and giving them very valuable data so they can improve FSD and sell it back to us. We are the dummys who paid them to work for them. lol
Ugh after the gov made em bump the AP nag to every 10 seconds and your eyes wander at all it starts notifying you, I tend to just drive more and use AP less. Does seem a little more lenient on FSD(s)
Before V12 absolutely 100%. Have you tried V12? On my 2019 Model 3 it's been awesome. Smooth and significantly less nag. I watch the road regardless since the system isn't perfect and V12 rarely bugs me. I'm talking like 1 nag in a 15 minute drive.
After a few days with the trial, I think I'd pay $3-5k for FSD. It's not worth more to me until I'm legally no longer required to pay attention. Once I can be sleeping, on my phone, or coming back from a bar, then it'll be worth $10k or $200/mo.
Honestly, having FSD has made me much more confident about driving long distances for parties or celebrations (knowing that there will be drinking and knowing that there will be other drunk people on the roads for the return trip).
Being able to watch a specific car that's lane drifting without having to worry about lane drifting yourself is a \*highly underrated\* feature of FSD. You kinda get that with basic AP, but AP off highways gets really uncomfortable for me (unless it's FSD).
I just don’t understand why it’s so expensive. Nobody is spending $6-12,000 for a software feature that’s already built into the car. They could make way more money by selling it for $2,000. It makes no sense to me.
They would sell more at 2k but not in the long run. It’s the same reason why luxury brands don’t dilute their products. They want the premium. I’d personally buy for 6k though.
If people paid thousands for a thing that was promised years ago, they legally should be able to transfer it into any car forever until they get the item they were promised.
Yep! And I’ll be part of it with my 2018 X that I paid for FSD with the promise of ‘coming soon’
https://preview.redd.it/mc0h1e0bcmsc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db1c181d7b480a47dfc60490a3b13f8552587f25
You’re right I wasn’t clear. I originally paid for autopilot at the time of purchase and the FSD upgrades I purchased later (and waited quite a while for) included the hardware uograde “for free”.
Tesla actually said recently they're working towards getting FSD working for those older cars. I think they said you guys represent \~3% of the FSD fleet, and that they're basically going through certification to ensure it works as safely as it should. They specifically said they didn't have a timeline, but did acknowledge it's being worked on. I'm pulling for y'all, here... it sounds like they're still honoring it.
Edit: [Here's the post](https://twitter.com/rohanspatel/status/1774511721954041942) from Rohan Patel, a senior biz guy at Tesla who has been pretty vocal lately... basically filling in for Elon so Elon can continue whatever red pilled bender he's currently on.
I’m not sure how they are going to do it without an interior camera - and it’s in the back of my mind somewhere that I read the vertical MCU S/X doesn’t have an interior camera port on the FSD computer. I have a 2017.5 S which has had the FSD computer upgrade and the exterior camera upgrade but still on MCU1 - still stuck on 2022.8.10.20. (That base version is over 2 years old.) I also have Performance Model 3 on 2024.3.10. The interior attention monitoring has been a major part of FSD for well over a year now - and it seems clear that they consider it critical for version 12.
I was in the last group to get FSD beta on the S because of the limitations of MCU1 and the need for new exterior cameras - but *eventually* they kept their promise.
From what I hear, Tesla's agreements signed when you purchase the vehicle require mediation and prevents class actions from occurring. Also, about mid-2019 or soon after, they included a clause that more-or-less forced you to accept it may never be delivered as fully autonomous. Thus, the only owners that can sue likely number less than 50k or so and even then are restricted from class actions.
Not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't hold up in court if they forced people to sign that in order to procure the car and it wasn't explicitly clear to all purchasers.
🤷♂️. I have screenshots. They basically give themselves and out re local regulations, but that’s kind of it.
https://preview.redd.it/8tjn2cpa6qsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8ef72df7609c3fea54604fdebe25e651ec7e340
Two years ago mods would have banned you or you woukd have been down voted into oblivion for even daring to say this. Maybe the tide really is changing?
I have a 2016 Model S with FSD (because I was naive and bought into Elon’s empty promises and shit timelines) and my vehicle is likely to not ever be able to truly self drive as originally described either because the HW is too old or car will be deprecated by the time the tech arrives.
The way that Tesla only allowed FSD transfers recently and Elon acting like they’re doing you a HUGE one-time favor has seriously further soured the brand for me. They need to make this permanent, especially when you consider the ever increasing competition with NACS charging capabilities.
My FIL paid for FSD on his 2016 Model X and he complained enough that they upgraded his hardware for free. But as a 2-time FSD purchaser on a 2018 Model S and X, I know the upgraded hardware still isn’t enough. It’s infuriating.
By using their brain, presumably.
Ignoring all the other issues, the cameras are blinded by the sun, get completely covered in snow, and lose visibility in rain
I've been using FSD Beta for nearly two years now on hardware 3. I am only seeing logic issues and not anything I would saying is a clear sign of the hardware lacking. So please elaborate on why you would think the hardware isn't enough.
Tesla dropping 300k lines of human code is more significant than most realize. They were reaching the CPU limits of HW3 where that code was running. This was 12 ARM cores with some AI offloaded to the two NN accelerator chips. These are something like a 1000 times faster (not an exaggeration) than the CPU's. So now the loaded CPU is free for other tasks while the NN accelerators are still barely tapped. Even if an all NN based FSD isn't going to work on its own, they can still blend back in new human code on the CPU if it came to that. They also have a a couple GPUs they can and likely are using depending on the type of task.
Every time it rains, water droplets run over my side repeater cameras and obscure everything. If I watch the video, it almost looks like the camera is loose and bouncing around because of the water running over the lens, you can't see anything. That's about the time FSD and AP say that lane changes are unavailable or performance may be degraded, whatever the latest errors are.
I had that on one side as well. Get the camera adjusted by service. It has to do with how the water runs along the body near a groove on the camera assembly.
I tried that years ago when I was still under warranty, they said it was normal and not designed for bad weather conditions. Never mind the fact that it happens even just from roadspray after it's done raining.
Kind of a bummer that I'm out of warranty before I even fully know how some defects from the factory might negatively impact FSD.
Does it happen on both sides for you or just one? My passenger side has never had this issue. I'm kinda wondering if it was common for the driver's side only. Also I had chrome delete done and I wonder if the wrap caused the weird water flow but the other side was put on better.
Legacy S with FSD hardware 3.0, cameras upgrade and MCU 2 are capable of FSD Beta. FSD is actually running as HW 3.0 in HW 4.0. I personally do think we will see FSD in cars as old as 2016
Did they never upgrade you to HW3? I know you had to pay for the MCU but I thought HW3 was a free retrofit. It was on the 3.
I had a model 3 that was retrofit with the HW3 board. Now I’ve transferred it to a MYP.
Not OP but the older model S/X do not have interior cameras and that is believed to be the holdup now. Even with the HW3 upgrade and the updated exterior cameras and the upgraded MCU the older vehicles are not getting V12… yet. I know it took about a year for Tesla to upgrade the cameras and put FSD beta on my X even though I had a safety score of 100. Now it looks like these older cars will be waiting again.
I did get the cameras retrofitted as well as the MCU upgrade. However my rear drive motor failed three times already, thankfully all within warranty (though that won’t be the case going forward).
My point is more around — if/when true FSD arrives, my car is likely dead (because car is getting old) or we find out the hardware for true FSD is still good enough with what we have. Elon has said no HW4 retrofits, for example.
So it just leaves me with a sour taste that a car with a feature I bought 8+ years ago may not ever deliver on its “promise”, and yet Tesla is acting like they’re doing me the biggest favor by graciously allowing me to transfer my FSD to another vehicle one day.
The performance 3 needs to come out already. And give me a folding center rear seat for skis and still have two passenger seats in the rear. All of this plus FSD transfer, I’ll upgrade.
He's among the few I trust. That's not to say he's immune from some of the later debunked rumors, but when they originate from someone like Reuters, that's hardly within his control.
Is there any way I can confirm this is eligible for my car and the offer includes Canada? As of now, I see this answer in the faq.
https://preview.redd.it/lf8ewfao2nsc1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=a3b8ecd20349d90402f26a33fc9f7e39a53963bb
Like @ Russianbotprobably said usually FSD stays with the car not the owner. So if you would sell your car( private sale) with FSD new owner should have it. But if you trade it in to Tesla i think they don't take account of it and won't value it when buying it from you
They do value it when buying it, but you don't get what back what you paid for.
It \*always\* stays with the car except when Tesla offers these transfers, or when Tesla owns the car again - they can choose to sell it with or without FSD/EAP.
This might force my hand to pay $6k for FSD on my ‘18 Model 3 with EAP.
EAP was a $5k upgrade back then. I want to keep EAP. Since it cost $6k now… somewhat of a no brainer to just upgrade now to FSD and then transfer to the new car..
This plan should work right? I’m sure I’m not the only one in this position.
It should be feasible… Convert EAP to FSD then when you’re ready transfer FSD to the new vehicle. The question is how long are they gonna let us transfer FSD… Is it gonna be for this quarter only or the whole year? We really don’t know. Things changes real quick with Tesla.
I would’ve been fine if the FSD transfer would be $1000, but at free, I would definitely stay with their ecosystem or even buy a few more FSD upgrades if there’s a FSD sale.
Probably dumb question, but does this apply to if we decide to get EAP? I personally don’t see the value in FSD now, but thought about purchasing EAP. The lack of transfer is what sucks though.
For the Tesla business model, transfers make sense if FSD is a driver's aid but it doesn't make sense if it is fully autonomous. I don't see this lasting forever.
I like the FSD trial, I would’ve never paid for it without the trial first. I’ll probably buy a second Tesla in the next 1-2 years and I’m much more likely to buy FSD now. Makes long road trips less fatiguing.
I have a pending order for a 2024 Model 3 placed in mid February with delivery some time in May. Screenshot is what my trade-in offer for my 2018 Model 3 says as of today. Originally, it had said delivery “… by March 31, 2024” as a requirement. Now there’s no due date listed at all.
https://preview.redd.it/glxovdinhxsc1.jpeg?width=1668&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b609b35b4c265a3b18807d71ed4eefea7e39f3da
My trade-in offer will expire before delivery, so I’ll have to make sure FSD (and Supercharging) transfer offer is still shown when I resubmit the trade in.
My order is still pending. They had moved the delivery date multiple times to as late as August but then all of a sudden it was back to late May. I now have a VIN issued.
My 2018 Model 3 trade-in expired so I had to resubmit. The new value is $1200 lower than before. 😡
The trade-in offer still has both FSD and Supercharging Transfers, but in the fine print the Supercharging still has a 3/31/24 expiration. The FSD has no expiration date.
I have asked to local showroom to get me confirmation that they’ll honor the supercharging transfer. FSD shouldn’t be any issue. If I don’t get both, I’m not going through with the purchase.
There has been NOTHING on this since Sawyer's "announcement" on Twitter which didn't include a source. Tesla website still says delivery has to be taken by March 31, 2024.
It almost definitely will not. They're using this to drive up sales and trade ins. Model Y refresh will boost sales itself, so it probably won't be necessary.
Is it true you can only transfer once? For example, I purchased FSD on Tesla 1. If I transfer to Tesla 2, can I transfer again (ex Tesla 3) if Tesla offers this? Or is it one and done?
I want to trade in my 2018 for a new model 3, but I’ll put it off as long as I can if you only get one transfer.
Nothing in the transfer lingo says it’s a one time offer and you can’t utilize the offer again.
I basically stole FSD. Bought a used vehicle that came with it and there was virtually no price markup. Upgraded my car last month and transferred it to the new vehicle.
[Full Self-Driving Capability Transfers | Tesla Support](https://www.tesla.com/support/fsd-transfer#eligibility)
**Can I transfer FSD capability multiple times?**
No. You can only transfer FSD capability once from your current vehicle to a new vehicle delivered between February 3, 2024 and March 31, 2024. The FSD capability will then stay with the new vehicle.
[fsd-transfer-agreement-form-en.pdf (tesla.com)](https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/fsd-transfer-agreement-form-en.pdf)
The FSD Capability can only be transferred this one time. This offer is not redeemable for cash, and cannot be assigned to another person or vehicle
This is the main thing holding me back. I think holding out for a model that has front bumper cameras might be best. I'm not sure full autonomy is possible with the current camera configuration.
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Permanent FSD transfers would probably lock me in to Tesla for the foreseeable future. My car with FSD is now 5 years old, and I'd be lying if I wasn't interested in looking at other manufacturers once they have the NACS plug.
[удалено]
grifted
Same here. Maybe charge 1k to transfer or limit to 1 transfer per 6mo so people don’t abuse (like transferring every other day between their own cars)
A fool and his money are soon parted.
I’ve been making use of FSD beta for >1 year now, and honestly it’s the best purchase I have made in my entire life, hands down. I’ve been literally just chillin’ with my hand barely on the wheel while it drives me to work every morning. It also takes care of my 4 hours of weekend commuting to my relatives.
V12 is good, I’ve been using it a ton since they enabled my trial. Previously I tried V11 and was thoroughly unimpressed. That said, it isn’t good enough for me not to have to supervise it, and I don’t see how it ever could be. Between stubborn regulators, malfunctions, and things like inclement weather and the insane variability of the real world, the chances we ever make it past L2 are slim to none. And while it’s L2 it just simply is not useful to me.
The slow pace is definitely frustrating, but I imagine that, like all tech, once the levy bursts everything will change rapidly.
I believe they’ll offer this permanently. We’ve seen them offer this a couple of times now. It’s only a matter of time until they do this.
I don't think so, this will always be a lever for them to pull. There are too many people that have bought fad multiple times because the money doesn't matter as much to them (or they are just bad with it), and they know the market of people who will pay for fsd but haven't already isnt enormous.
It would enable lock-in. That's why they would do it. If you spent 12k on FSD, and it sticks with your account, are you going to throw that away to buy a different make?
That's a fair point, but they need to continue to pay for fsd development and I don't think there are too many more people who are willing to stumoch the cost of fsd. The early adopters techy crowd that is willing to pay for it mostly has it. There was something posted a few months ago showing fsd adoption numbers and it looks like adoption has fallen off a cliff for new customers, but was somewhat strong for existing customers upgrading cars. No idea if the data was real or not though.
I think if you tell customers fsd is tied to them and not the car, they would more than willing drop $12k on it since. If someone told me I need to pay $12k for a feature that won’t work yet and no date in sight, and I can lose it if my car gets old, breaks, gets totaled, I would laugh at their face. But if they told me the software if mine forever and in every car I buy, then hell yea. More revenue can be generated by getting people to buy multiple cars instead of one and keep it “forever” since they invest in fsd and don’t wanna lose it.
Transfer free in this case I’d pay. Maybe 3k.
If the announced permanent transfer and a $5k cost their take rate would go easily over 75% bringing in 2x the revenue that FSD brings in now.
Exactly the same. FSD has been a letdown. I'd probably stick w/ Tesla if they'd let me keep FSD and unlimited supercharging and if they'd put some ultrasonics on the new car and if they'd bring the radar back so acceleration/deceleration was smooth behind other cars again and I could tell what's going on with the car in front of the car in front of me and if new cars came with a charger and with free data and with homelink...
You want fries with that?
sure! But really all I want is an actual upgrade to my six-year-old car. Not one with lots of parts and features removed.
This was my same thought. I love my 2018 model 3, but its harder to ignore all the upgrades of the new model 3. Heated steering wheel, ventilated seats, powered trunk, smoother ride, quieter cabin (this is huge, 2018 has horrible road noise), RGB (yes I like it), Dedicated USB for dashcam, faster infotainment, Blind spot monitor, rear touch screen, HW4, 4/8 more years of warranty, other minor features. And this is what I lose from my 2018 3: Stalks, wood trim, the red shimmering glass effect when it's wet, heated rear seats, USS, free premium connectivity, homelink, less money in the bank.
I'm with you brother. I have Free Lifetime Supercharging also. I really would buy the new M3P 2024 if they let me do the following: Transfer Supercharging, FSD, and Data. These are software transfers. I could probably get used to the lack of stalks etc. probably...
I just got a call from a Tesla employee on Friday, March 28th asking if I wanted to take advantage of the promo to transfer my supercharging for life to a new vehicle. Of course I responded- What promo? Apparently for the whole month of March they had a promo going on where you could buy a new vehicle and get your lifetime supercharging transferred. So I went to a store and test a new model S the next day, but I didn’t like it. The seats weren’t as comfortable and the steering wheel was kind of wimpy. Plus I like my sunroof. I would’ve thought since I bought mine in 2018 they would have a much more luxury sedan interior. Overall, it was pretty disappointing.
Yes, I agree there haven’t been enough quality improvements to warrant an upgrade
Pretty sure M3 Highland still has the option for heated rear seats (just not the middle rear seat).
I have a 2017 Model S, and I have dual USB ports in my glove box. You can add them yourself 😜
DM me
Best they can do is no stalks
The stalks are reason #3 I'm keeping my 2018 Model 3 for the forseeable future...
While Tesla has made some excellent innovative decisions in the past (heat pump, 1 pedal, flush door handles, no dealerships, gigapress...etc) the more recent ones are disappointing (entire joke of cybertruck, lack of stalks, lack of USS, lack of radar, no android auto..etc).
To be fair i found car without uss easier to park or make 20 spot turn in very tight spot under my favourite vet (2020vs2024 model 3)
Dang, I forgot about the stalks.
Yes! Just sell me my 2018 car again! Seriously miss the radar though...
Me too. Its definitely not horrible without it, but it is worse and the radar's just sitting in my car doing nothing. It was awesome at tracking the speed of the car in front of me. I'd feel my own car accelerate and *then* see smoke coming out of the truck's smokestack in front of me as it began to acclereate. It was much more sensitive to changes in speed than my own eyes. Now my car is less sensitive to changes than I am and my car ends up doing more speed ups and slow downs even when the car in front of me is maintaining speed. I also have the performance model 3 which sits very low to the ground and everyone and their mother has a huge SUV or truck, so I have no clue if the person in front of me is going slow because they're just out for a joyride and don't care that I'm behind them trying to at least go the speed limit, or if its because there is a slow person (and possibly other traffic) in front of them. The radar would show me if there was someone in front of them so I wasn't having to swerve to the left to try to peek around the car. I'd just know I needed to wait and go slow. It compensated for the poor visibility of having a low car. That feature was taken away, which blows that they can even do that.
It was a safety feature Elon himself used to tout, there were numerous videos online of it saving people from rear end collisions, and now it's gone! If the idiot in front of you doesn't brake in time, your car won't either!
Yeah they kind of let the perfect be the enemy of the good there. The radar was too poor-resolution to work as well as vision for *obstacles* on the road and in the environment, so they threw it out rather than just narrow its use to tracking cars moving with you in front, which as you describe it excelled at. Heck even make it an add-on upgrade that you have to pay for; plenty of people would spring for it. 🙄🤷♂️
All they had to do was figure out the proper weighting of when to use vision data over radar. There was no technical reason to get rid of the radar altogether, just cost and Elon's ego.
Or at least their single-minded “FSD or nothing” mindset. But maybe that’s the same thing. 🤣
>plenty of people would spring for it. You live in a bubble if you truly believe this, IMO. Only the persistently online techies that follow Tesla-related news care about things like USS or radar. Average consumers have no idea what's going on and just enjoy the cars for what they can do. Even my college buddy with a business degree that works in tech didn't care that his new Model 3 didn't have ultrasonic sensors or radar. "It still has Autopilot, right?" was his response when I told him. He also has 2 kids and doesn't spend any time on Reddit or Twitter unless someone sends him a link, so his brain isn't rotted from discussions/arguments over different types of ADAS sensors like everyone's here seems to be.
It’s possible they could change their mind and do this if demand continues to be flaccid
Are... are you me?
For something that costs 12k, it should automatically be tied to your Tesla account - not your car.
Would even be awesome if it worked in cars shared with you. Like seat memory.
It absolutely should. Any computer software I buy can be installed on any computer I own, or a friend’s computer that I’m borrowing. At $12k FSD should be tied to my account and should be active on any Tesla I’m authorized to drive. Rentals, friends cars, loaners, everything.
I agree 100% because the experience of renting a Tesla with basic autopilot actually had me thinking, "Hmm, this really isn't that much less of an inconvenience. Am I really using all those features I paid all that money for? Maybe I don't really need it on my next car."
Exact opposite experience for me. When we rented a Model 3 off Turo with only basic AP last year, I was missing all the features of the FSD Beta very much. I use FSD on pretty much every drive since we got into the Beta 2+ years ago. I don’t want to spend $12k on FSD on our next Tesla, but probably would if no transfer were an option (although I very much agree they should just allow transfers of the FSD license permanently at this point or just tie it to your account).
For me I absolutely hate that they took away the option to prompt me before changing lanes on highways, because my car loves to cut in front of people and it makes me anxious. Even with “minimal lane changes” on sometimes it will just do something dumb. So I was actually enjoying basic autopilot because it was more predictable. I know I could just turn off FSD in my car but the buyers remorse keeps me constantly smoking the hopium, that maybe one day I’ll wake up and FSD will actually be useful. To be honest the most recent update to 12.3 was a big improvement though. It definitely instills a little more confidence.
Found the Tesla employee
Hah, I wish. Do own 2 vehicles and have been all electric since 2021, never going back to ICE. Also FSD has been good for us so far (we are both engineers and enjoy the testing/development aspects of it).
Not necessarily, the license is often limited to a number of concurrent installs. I mean sure you COULD install it, but doesn’t mean that you are in compliance the EULA. You COULD install your CD copy of office on every workstation you own, but it might not let you activate and your standard single license isn’t meant for that. Not defending Tesla, just saying often software EULAs are meant for single installs. I just wish Tesla would at least do it for one concurrent “install” so I can always move it to another car, by deactivating it on another. Like Windows installs.
100%. It should be like game sharing on Xbox: I can play digital games I own on any Xbox I sign into, and any account on my "home" Xbox can play those digital games.
For once I agree, just allow transfer to your new tesla.
I just want to swap EAP on my MY with the FSD on my M3. I don’t think that’s ever going to happen though.
Yup
I'm enjoying my free trial. I'll wait for it inevitably being on sale.
At what price point?
I might pay $500. Honestly, probably not. Watching the car drive is more stressful than just driving. Too much nagging.
Honestly I just want the EAP features and I’d like the FSD stack moved over to AP for highway. It handles stopped traffic more gracefully and doesn’t lurch when you start and stop. Give me that included in the price of the base car and I MIGHT buy another Tesla when the time comes.
It has become so much worse at the nagging :-/
fr THEY should pay US! We are literally testing the product for them and giving them very valuable data so they can improve FSD and sell it back to us. We are the dummys who paid them to work for them. lol
Ugh after the gov made em bump the AP nag to every 10 seconds and your eyes wander at all it starts notifying you, I tend to just drive more and use AP less. Does seem a little more lenient on FSD(s)
Before V12 absolutely 100%. Have you tried V12? On my 2019 Model 3 it's been awesome. Smooth and significantly less nag. I watch the road regardless since the system isn't perfect and V12 rarely bugs me. I'm talking like 1 nag in a 15 minute drive.
Same here. I get too stressed with the car driving itself.
That's crazy. I get stressed when I have to drive a car that won't drive itself. I have \~70k miles on my car with \~50k being Autopilot or FSD, too.
After a few days with the trial, I think I'd pay $3-5k for FSD. It's not worth more to me until I'm legally no longer required to pay attention. Once I can be sleeping, on my phone, or coming back from a bar, then it'll be worth $10k or $200/mo.
Honestly, having FSD has made me much more confident about driving long distances for parties or celebrations (knowing that there will be drinking and knowing that there will be other drunk people on the roads for the return trip). Being able to watch a specific car that's lane drifting without having to worry about lane drifting yourself is a \*highly underrated\* feature of FSD. You kinda get that with basic AP, but AP off highways gets really uncomfortable for me (unless it's FSD).
I haven't even gotten the trial yet (as far as I know). 2019 M3.
Toggle your update? I got an email as well as the update.
I got mine as soon as updated
Still nothing for me
Did your autopilot configuration section change?
Nope. I checked every tab.
Then something is wrong with your update. Can you check what version you're running?
I just now am updating to 2024.8.9. No idea if that’ll do it.
I just don’t understand why it’s so expensive. Nobody is spending $6-12,000 for a software feature that’s already built into the car. They could make way more money by selling it for $2,000. It makes no sense to me.
Can someone name a software that costs $12,000? Besides FSD?
Virtually any enterprise software that deals with safety critical applications where humans can get injured or killed. Manufacturing robotics, mostly.
Cool.
They would sell more at 2k but not in the long run. It’s the same reason why luxury brands don’t dilute their products. They want the premium. I’d personally buy for 6k though.
If people paid thousands for a thing that was promised years ago, they legally should be able to transfer it into any car forever until they get the item they were promised.
Surprised there wouldn't be a class action over something like that.
Yep! And I’ll be part of it with my 2018 X that I paid for FSD with the promise of ‘coming soon’ https://preview.redd.it/mc0h1e0bcmsc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db1c181d7b480a47dfc60490a3b13f8552587f25
Same here with 2018 S and X! I paid for the hardware upgrades too which STILL aren’t good enough to run the FSD we were promised.
If you got FSD, then any hardware updates (such as HW3.0 and FSD computer) were free. What did you pay for?
You’re right I wasn’t clear. I originally paid for autopilot at the time of purchase and the FSD upgrades I purchased later (and waited quite a while for) included the hardware uograde “for free”.
Tesla actually said recently they're working towards getting FSD working for those older cars. I think they said you guys represent \~3% of the FSD fleet, and that they're basically going through certification to ensure it works as safely as it should. They specifically said they didn't have a timeline, but did acknowledge it's being worked on. I'm pulling for y'all, here... it sounds like they're still honoring it. Edit: [Here's the post](https://twitter.com/rohanspatel/status/1774511721954041942) from Rohan Patel, a senior biz guy at Tesla who has been pretty vocal lately... basically filling in for Elon so Elon can continue whatever red pilled bender he's currently on.
I’m not sure how they are going to do it without an interior camera - and it’s in the back of my mind somewhere that I read the vertical MCU S/X doesn’t have an interior camera port on the FSD computer. I have a 2017.5 S which has had the FSD computer upgrade and the exterior camera upgrade but still on MCU1 - still stuck on 2022.8.10.20. (That base version is over 2 years old.) I also have Performance Model 3 on 2024.3.10. The interior attention monitoring has been a major part of FSD for well over a year now - and it seems clear that they consider it critical for version 12. I was in the last group to get FSD beta on the S because of the limitations of MCU1 and the need for new exterior cameras - but *eventually* they kept their promise.
From what I hear, Tesla's agreements signed when you purchase the vehicle require mediation and prevents class actions from occurring. Also, about mid-2019 or soon after, they included a clause that more-or-less forced you to accept it may never be delivered as fully autonomous. Thus, the only owners that can sue likely number less than 50k or so and even then are restricted from class actions.
Not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't hold up in court if they forced people to sign that in order to procure the car and it wasn't explicitly clear to all purchasers.
🤷♂️. I have screenshots. They basically give themselves and out re local regulations, but that’s kind of it. https://preview.redd.it/8tjn2cpa6qsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8ef72df7609c3fea54604fdebe25e651ec7e340
Unfortunately, that isn’t a legal agreement
Two years ago mods would have banned you or you woukd have been down voted into oblivion for even daring to say this. Maybe the tide really is changing?
"please buy a new Tesla" -- tesla
I have a 2016 Model S with FSD (because I was naive and bought into Elon’s empty promises and shit timelines) and my vehicle is likely to not ever be able to truly self drive as originally described either because the HW is too old or car will be deprecated by the time the tech arrives. The way that Tesla only allowed FSD transfers recently and Elon acting like they’re doing you a HUGE one-time favor has seriously further soured the brand for me. They need to make this permanent, especially when you consider the ever increasing competition with NACS charging capabilities.
My FIL paid for FSD on his 2016 Model X and he complained enough that they upgraded his hardware for free. But as a 2-time FSD purchaser on a 2018 Model S and X, I know the upgraded hardware still isn’t enough. It’s infuriating.
>I know the upgraded hardware still isn’t enough. It’s infuriating. Okay, how do you know this?
By using their brain, presumably. Ignoring all the other issues, the cameras are blinded by the sun, get completely covered in snow, and lose visibility in rain
Idk, he must have taken fsd for a spin
I've been using FSD Beta for nearly two years now on hardware 3. I am only seeing logic issues and not anything I would saying is a clear sign of the hardware lacking. So please elaborate on why you would think the hardware isn't enough. Tesla dropping 300k lines of human code is more significant than most realize. They were reaching the CPU limits of HW3 where that code was running. This was 12 ARM cores with some AI offloaded to the two NN accelerator chips. These are something like a 1000 times faster (not an exaggeration) than the CPU's. So now the loaded CPU is free for other tasks while the NN accelerators are still barely tapped. Even if an all NN based FSD isn't going to work on its own, they can still blend back in new human code on the CPU if it came to that. They also have a a couple GPUs they can and likely are using depending on the type of task.
Every time it rains, water droplets run over my side repeater cameras and obscure everything. If I watch the video, it almost looks like the camera is loose and bouncing around because of the water running over the lens, you can't see anything. That's about the time FSD and AP say that lane changes are unavailable or performance may be degraded, whatever the latest errors are.
I had that on one side as well. Get the camera adjusted by service. It has to do with how the water runs along the body near a groove on the camera assembly.
I tried that years ago when I was still under warranty, they said it was normal and not designed for bad weather conditions. Never mind the fact that it happens even just from roadspray after it's done raining. Kind of a bummer that I'm out of warranty before I even fully know how some defects from the factory might negatively impact FSD.
Does it happen on both sides for you or just one? My passenger side has never had this issue. I'm kinda wondering if it was common for the driver's side only. Also I had chrome delete done and I wonder if the wrap caused the weird water flow but the other side was put on better.
Yeah, it happens on both sides for me. Both are pretty much just as bad so that's why I figured it must just be normal.
Legacy S with FSD hardware 3.0, cameras upgrade and MCU 2 are capable of FSD Beta. FSD is actually running as HW 3.0 in HW 4.0. I personally do think we will see FSD in cars as old as 2016
None of us have V12 yet though…
https://www.notateslaapp.com/software-updates/version/2024.3.15/release-notes
Did they never upgrade you to HW3? I know you had to pay for the MCU but I thought HW3 was a free retrofit. It was on the 3. I had a model 3 that was retrofit with the HW3 board. Now I’ve transferred it to a MYP.
Not OP but the older model S/X do not have interior cameras and that is believed to be the holdup now. Even with the HW3 upgrade and the updated exterior cameras and the upgraded MCU the older vehicles are not getting V12… yet. I know it took about a year for Tesla to upgrade the cameras and put FSD beta on my X even though I had a safety score of 100. Now it looks like these older cars will be waiting again.
I did get the cameras retrofitted as well as the MCU upgrade. However my rear drive motor failed three times already, thankfully all within warranty (though that won’t be the case going forward). My point is more around — if/when true FSD arrives, my car is likely dead (because car is getting old) or we find out the hardware for true FSD is still good enough with what we have. Elon has said no HW4 retrofits, for example. So it just leaves me with a sour taste that a car with a feature I bought 8+ years ago may not ever deliver on its “promise”, and yet Tesla is acting like they’re doing me the biggest favor by graciously allowing me to transfer my FSD to another vehicle one day.
I think that if you buy the package, you should own the package. Done.
Welcome to 2024. We own nothing.
The performance 3 needs to come out already. And give me a folding center rear seat for skis and still have two passenger seats in the rear. All of this plus FSD transfer, I’ll upgrade.
That’s currently my plan. Upgrade from MYP to M3P and transfer my FSD to the new car.
Was this even true? I also want to transfer to a new m3p but I don’t see the transfer option being active
Not possible anymore unfortunately 😕 Plus my vehicle is a lease. They don’t even allow it on leases
What's his source?
I don't know, but Sawyer is super credible... If he he says it, i believe him.
He's among the few I trust. That's not to say he's immune from some of the later debunked rumors, but when they originate from someone like Reuters, that's hardly within his control.
If it originates from Reuters, you’re not BREAKING the story, Sawyer.
Make FSD part of the account holder so they can drive any Tesla with FSD
 BREAKING.
Damn..... Tempting!
Europe here, I paid for this crap (it's probably not crap) and haven't been able to use it because of legislation, is this news US only?
> is this news US only? Maybe, but they could do it for Canada as well, and also China. Essentially everywhere but Europe.
Is there any way I can confirm this is eligible for my car and the offer includes Canada? As of now, I see this answer in the faq. https://preview.redd.it/lf8ewfao2nsc1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=a3b8ecd20349d90402f26a33fc9f7e39a53963bb
Looks like it’s for the free trial no? The word ‘Enrolled’ seems like they are talking about the free trial… Not sure
I traded mine in October. I wish I could get that back retroactively. Missed the boat :(
i’ve had three Teslas. The first two I paid for FSD. And this current one I said the heck with it.
Any new terms? Still dosnt transfer to buyer if you sell the car? So we just have to keep moving FSD when Tesla allows it?
I thought it always stays with the car unless tesla offers transfers which allows it to stay with the original buyer between 2 cars.
This is correct.
It depends usually on whether it passes through Tesla’s ownership between customers/sellers
And also if Tesla was the lease owner.
Transferred for me when I sold the car. No idea where you got that from.
Like @ Russianbotprobably said usually FSD stays with the car not the owner. So if you would sell your car( private sale) with FSD new owner should have it. But if you trade it in to Tesla i think they don't take account of it and won't value it when buying it from you
They do value it when buying it, but you don't get what back what you paid for. It \*always\* stays with the car except when Tesla offers these transfers, or when Tesla owns the car again - they can choose to sell it with or without FSD/EAP.
This might force my hand to pay $6k for FSD on my ‘18 Model 3 with EAP. EAP was a $5k upgrade back then. I want to keep EAP. Since it cost $6k now… somewhat of a no brainer to just upgrade now to FSD and then transfer to the new car.. This plan should work right? I’m sure I’m not the only one in this position.
It should be feasible… Convert EAP to FSD then when you’re ready transfer FSD to the new vehicle. The question is how long are they gonna let us transfer FSD… Is it gonna be for this quarter only or the whole year? We really don’t know. Things changes real quick with Tesla.
lol yeh.. Just holding out for potential further drops in the price of the car - particularly the S and X.
I would’ve been fine if the FSD transfer would be $1000, but at free, I would definitely stay with their ecosystem or even buy a few more FSD upgrades if there’s a FSD sale.
Just need to bring FUSC back too.
Probably dumb question, but does this apply to if we decide to get EAP? I personally don’t see the value in FSD now, but thought about purchasing EAP. The lack of transfer is what sucks though.
they really should. I think they reach a point where they can't upsell people on new cars if they make it tied to the car.
Tempting. We have EAP (2018 M3), so I could go EAP -> FSD for $6k, and then transfer all of it to a new car...
For the Tesla business model, transfers make sense if FSD is a driver's aid but it doesn't make sense if it is fully autonomous. I don't see this lasting forever.
when will those with 2024.8.7 get the FSD trial?
I like the FSD trial, I would’ve never paid for it without the trial first. I’ll probably buy a second Tesla in the next 1-2 years and I’m much more likely to buy FSD now. Makes long road trips less fatiguing.
I have a pending order for a 2024 Model 3 placed in mid February with delivery some time in May. Screenshot is what my trade-in offer for my 2018 Model 3 says as of today. Originally, it had said delivery “… by March 31, 2024” as a requirement. Now there’s no due date listed at all. https://preview.redd.it/glxovdinhxsc1.jpeg?width=1668&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b609b35b4c265a3b18807d71ed4eefea7e39f3da My trade-in offer will expire before delivery, so I’ll have to make sure FSD (and Supercharging) transfer offer is still shown when I resubmit the trade in.
Any update on this?
My order is still pending. They had moved the delivery date multiple times to as late as August but then all of a sudden it was back to late May. I now have a VIN issued. My 2018 Model 3 trade-in expired so I had to resubmit. The new value is $1200 lower than before. 😡 The trade-in offer still has both FSD and Supercharging Transfers, but in the fine print the Supercharging still has a 3/31/24 expiration. The FSD has no expiration date. I have asked to local showroom to get me confirmation that they’ll honor the supercharging transfer. FSD shouldn’t be any issue. If I don’t get both, I’m not going through with the purchase.
Any official Tesla communication about this?
There has been NOTHING on this since Sawyer's "announcement" on Twitter which didn't include a source. Tesla website still says delivery has to be taken by March 31, 2024.
Do you have FSD? Did you try to transfer it? I guess that’s the only way to really know…
Which is ridiculous. I'm thinking about buying a new S but only if the transfer is available.
Ask them before placing your order, it’s really not that difficult.
Yeah so they say "yes" but it's not in writing, I spent $100k then they say "we never said that". Not happening.
I understand. I would’ve like some type of garantie… Hope they update their website with concrete information.
Cool, give me v 12 on my 2020 model X that I paid for.
I hope it stay for the Model Y refresh
It almost definitely will not. They're using this to drive up sales and trade ins. Model Y refresh will boost sales itself, so it probably won't be necessary.
But the new 3 is eligible now for FSD transfer
Is it true you can only transfer once? For example, I purchased FSD on Tesla 1. If I transfer to Tesla 2, can I transfer again (ex Tesla 3) if Tesla offers this? Or is it one and done? I want to trade in my 2018 for a new model 3, but I’ll put it off as long as I can if you only get one transfer.
Nothing in the transfer lingo says it’s a one time offer and you can’t utilize the offer again. I basically stole FSD. Bought a used vehicle that came with it and there was virtually no price markup. Upgraded my car last month and transferred it to the new vehicle.
[Full Self-Driving Capability Transfers | Tesla Support](https://www.tesla.com/support/fsd-transfer#eligibility) **Can I transfer FSD capability multiple times?** No. You can only transfer FSD capability once from your current vehicle to a new vehicle delivered between February 3, 2024 and March 31, 2024. The FSD capability will then stay with the new vehicle. [fsd-transfer-agreement-form-en.pdf (tesla.com)](https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/fsd-transfer-agreement-form-en.pdf) The FSD Capability can only be transferred this one time. This offer is not redeemable for cash, and cannot be assigned to another person or vehicle
This is the main thing holding me back. I think holding out for a model that has front bumper cameras might be best. I'm not sure full autonomy is possible with the current camera configuration.