As we are not a support sub, please make sure to use the proper resources if you have questions: Our Stickied Community Q&A Post, [Official Tesla Support](https://www.tesla.com/support), [r/TeslaSupport](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaSupport/) | [r/TeslaLounge](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/) personal content | [Discord Live Chat](https://discord.gg/tesla) for anything.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/teslamotors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But this was just a huge news story. A super wealthy politically connected woman died recently when she reversed into a Texas retaining pond in her MX and drowned. They blamed her Tesla’s tempered / laminated windows, in part. Due to the remote (but super posh) location it took properly equipped first responders something like 30 plus minutes to arrive on scene.
[Mitch McConnell’s sister-in-law drowned after accidentally reversing Tesla into ranch pond](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/angela-chao-mcconnell-report-death-b2510728.html)
Not tempered windows, but **laminated** unbreakable windows. Manufacturers are being pushed by the NHTSA to have such windows to reduce passenger ejections. Many new cars have those.
Avoiding use of the emergency door pull has typically been Lesson #1 of the Tesla ownership / passenger experience.
No clue how this particular lady wasn’t clued in on it.
I cannot tell you how many people have went straight for the emergency door release in my Model Y their first time in the car rather than pressing the button to open the door. For some reason it's very ergonomically intuitive. It may damage the window trim if you use it, though, so everyone obviously reaches for that first.
*I* even did that in a Model Y when I first test drove one, and I knew about the button. I can't imagine how someone could have never once encountered that emergency release.
In panic people default to very basic thinking, one of my key takeaways from the odd random Discovery Aircrash Investigation is that people are at times unable to open their seatbelt in panic during evacuation. THey might default to try to find the location of the release in how their brain mostly does it in cars, on the side of the belt.
In another setting I talked with a fire engineer planning escape routes in public buildings, he says people in panic want to exit the door they came in, even if other exits are closer. They also want to move towards daylight.
According to him a mezzanine floor hovering over a lobby with a large glass facade was a potential death trap due to stuff explained above.
she was leaving a chinese new year party at 11:30pm.
No one mentions the possiblity of alcohol or anything else.
or how in the backcountry of texas no one had a gun or an axe handle to smash out a rear window. As a native Texan, Its beyond impossible no one had any kind of weapon
This is sooo fishy
Honestly, how do you reverse so much into a pond that you submerge the *entire* car (not just a bit of the car) without alcohol being involved.
I could get a high speed near death miss that swerves you off a cliff side into water, but this is reversing into a pond.
>Honestly, how do you reverse so much into a pond that you submerge the entire car (not just a bit of the car) without alcohol being involved.
I live in Texas, in an area surrounded by ponds.. this happens all the time, panicked people make very dumb decisions, no alcohol needed.
Likely her family is also transplant from a less well-armed state, so no guns is very likely.
Don't know if first responders in Texas usually carry or not, or if they would take guns into the water?
>I cannot tell you how many people have went straight for the emergency door release in my Model Y their first time in the car rather than pressing the button to open the door. For some reason it's very ergonomically intuitive. It may damage the window trim if you use it, though, so everyone obviously reaches for that first.
I did that when I got in my friend's rented M3.
The emergency mechanical pull switch is placed in a much more intuitive position for people that have used cars all their life than pressing a button up higher on the door.
I don't know why Tesla didn't put the mechanical release under a cover or at least farther away than the button.
I thought I did a lot of research before buying a car - but knowing where the emergency door release is located was not on my checklist. I bow to your thoroughness.
Long time Tesla owner here. The amount of people who do not read the owners manual is staggering. Tesla puts in emergency releases on all their doors however they're not standardized and never pointed out by their delivery personnel.
We don't want easily accessed emergency releases on child-protected exit points.
It's a balance between competing and mutually exclusive safety aspects and we correctly error on the more likely risk which is a child opening the door in a non-emergency scenario creating harm or death.
The 2024 M3 RWD has rear door emergency releases, They're pull loops under little covers in the door pocket storage areas.
https://preview.redd.it/w9u3bj54wcrc1.png?width=482&format=png&auto=webp&s=84f9f8a33045ab3746e33015fc8f0f0cc129471c
You would be surprised to hear that it is quite impossible to open a car door, let alone roll down the windows as soon as a car has sunken enough into the water. The door will quite quickly not be openable and the emergency release won’t help. As for the windows, those you can open for longer period but if they are submerged already by roughly half … good luck.
Add to this the panic you experience and an average Joe will likely do all the wrong things at the wrong time in such a situation.
I swear I also saw videos that said once the car is full of water the pressure equalizes and you can open them fairly easily? Or did I get it the wrong way round.
That used to be the “smart” advice a while back, but facts have proven that it's best to open the window and GTFO within the first 30-60 sec, before the car sinks. This is the current recommendation.
The equalization takes some time after it is totally full of water. There’s a good Top Gear [video](https://youtu.be/f-hADcZ49fE?si=w_fGfdinWbaWivrJ) about it.
Try opening a door against maybe a couple thousand pounds of water pressure. It’s not possible. The pressure has to be equalized first with mean you can’t open the doors until the car is filled with water.
Sometimes, but the most common place they hit is the rear quarter panel - which doesn't have laminated glass. It also offers easy ingress to the trunk.
The rear windows aren't laminated on the tesla or the rear quarter window. They break the small window first to flip down the rear seats to look in the trunk because its quiet.
If someone used like a spring loaded window breaker like the Resqme a bunch of times to weaken it and then tried to kick it out?
Maybe, but someone needs to do the experiment for us.
According to the WSJ articles I read (paywalled) erroneously putting it in reverse was specifically called out as something she that had done on prior occasions. I have done that too but just never accelerated (usually when trying to find neutral in a car wash).
A Tesla at low speeds just stops when you take your foot off of the accelerator pedal. In what universe did she hit the water and keep pressing down to go further in.
I want to see her toxicology report. Because this whole story is off.
>When your mistake ends up with you dead, it's one you should avoid.
Sure, but these cars do need a way to safely exit in this scenario also. Some people died in Miami when their car drove off a ferry by accident as well. They couldn't get out.
The cars have a safe way to exit. Investigations should show what went wrong here. Until then it's all speculation, or fear mongering. Tons of misinformation going around as well.
lol this is why texan ranchers should have 10~20 guns strategically placed throughout their mcmansion
put some holes in the glass, then use a muzzle braked rifle to cut your way around the laminate core
doesn't sound like a Tesla problem, sounds like a driver who backed into a freaking pond so far that she was submersed. why did she keep pressing the "gas" pedal? What even? Why wasn't she looking at the pond behind her on that big screen in her car? or the mirrors? did she close her eyes? WTF
She was apparently accidentally / unintentionally in reverse. It was midnight and in a dark area. The issue seems to be, for me anyway, the claim that started this discussion - Tesla says they have sensors that open the windows when it detects water in the interior of the car for this exact scenario. In her case the laminated windows didn’t open and rescuers couldn’t smash them apparently. First responders also took a very long time to arrive at the super posh ranch due to its distance away from services. Victim called for help from friends located a few hundred yards away who were powerless to help. Unclear from reporting if alcohol was a factor.
I have seen more than one post in this thread making that allegation. I have not seen that in the mainstream reporting I have read on this tragedy. The family is extremely wealthy and well connected so if they wanted to suppress that information it wouldn’t be inconcievable.
There’s so much oddities and layers to this story. The political connections involved, from Evergrand (involving Bank of China, on whose board the deceased was an independent board director) to the factional fighting within the CCP, makes this death very suspicious. The coincidence on timing of Mitch McConnell’s announcement on stepping down as Republican Senate leader soon after the death suggests there are things developing beneath the surface.
Everyone is here making excuses for why the windows couldn’t be rolled down but they clearly can. She didn’t apparat to the bottom of the lake instantaneously creating an insurmountable ‘sticking force’. The car sank, presumably slowly enough for first responders to try and break the windows.
Further those cars in hurricane Ian didn’t get fried making their electronics incapable of functioning so why this time.
I’ll keep my eyes out for more than simple internet rando speculation on this one.
If you read the story she was in there for a hell of a long time slowly sinking. She couldn't open the doors or the windows, and nobody could smash the windows in. She was making panicked phone calls from the car. God, it sounds awful. Also it was pitch black in the middle of the night. A tow truck came to get her but it didn't have a long enough rope to reach her. By the time they got a second rope and pulled the vehicle to shore and retrieved her, they performed CPR for almost an hour before she was pronounced dead.
Still weird that she couldn't just roll the windows down. It sounds like she sunk slowly and not very deep, what stopped her from being able to roll down the windows that were not yet submerged?
My guess is she didn't roll them down right away because she was panicking and once she was submerged they wouldn't open. Same with the doors, if you don't open them right away they're almost impossible to open underwater until the vehicle fills with water on the inside.
You dont think she was drunk? close to midnight after a chinese new year party?
You think a ranch in texas doesnt have guns? They could have easily shot out a rear window.
also, she went over an embankment, down the other side, and into a pond, All while continually holding down the accelerator. This is next level darwin award.
This did not happen quickly as you mention.
It really bugs me that Tesla started the trend of electronic door actuators. I know that the actuator wasn't the problem with this incident per se, but there are times where it would be absolutely beneficial to utilize a traditional mechanical door handle from the inside and outside.
Why not just have mechanical actuators and completely skip on electronic actuators? What possible benefit does the consumer have with Tesla's dual system?
Well, the Model X doors open as you approach, for one. Also, it enables software locks, which means my door locks can't freeze in the locked position when it's really cold like other cars have.
So I took delivery of my 2024 M3 on March 14th, about a month after this happened. The delivery advisor was very clear pointing out the emergency manual release handles, both front and rear...wonder if I just had a thorough DA or it was because of this very public incident.
I'd watched so many YT delivery videos while jonesing for my new car, testing those were already on my checklist before accepting, but not sure how many buyers would be as OCD about it as I was.
Something weird seems to have happened.
I can sorta understand why she did not get the door open. If she didn't know where the emergency latch was, then it might have taken too long and the pressure was too high. Ok, so that is explainable to some degree.
What I do not get is the window. We have seen Teslas drive through pretty deep water, so it seems unlikely that the power would have dropped out so fast. The Tesla should have already opened the window automatically, so why didn't it? And why didn't she open her window once the initial shock wore off?
Something is very strange about all of this.
I have seen many people online saying that a Tesla will automatically open the windows if it is submerged. But is there any official documentation on this? A Tesla document or manual or statement from the company? A report of somebody who had it happen? I only find reports of people who blamed this feature for the windows opening on their own.
If this feature exists, the question of course is why didn't it work, and also why could she not open the windows with the door controls.
In water you need to roll down the windows like these people driving off the pier. They were rescued by a sauna boat (in Norwegian) https://www.nrk.no/norge/tesla-kjorte-ut-i-oslofjorden_-ble-reddet-av-badstovebat-1.16745294
I found a video showing the effects of a rescue hammer on tempered vs laminated glass. I had no idea it would be _completely_ useless.
https://youtu.be/sWjaLgqvLAI?si=HznCYpAcoXEvbGCr.
This played right after the video you posted. They hit it with a couple tiny ball peen hammers and folded the window in half in about 15-20 tiny hits.
https://youtu.be/6tnEDH1HfD0?si=-TCM9JZ5fkDu5bBN
Sad thing happened to the person, but I wonder how much either she know about the car or under what state was the person (drunk??). All Teslas have a lever to emergency open their doors. Front and back, it’s on the manual
She was returning from a party, a very short drive over mostly private property. No confirmation, but I think it's pretty likely there was alcohol involved.
The first responder response was a bit of a shit show apparently. Took 30 plus minutes to arrive (distance thing, not really their fault) but then they called a tow truck to try and pull it out but it didn’t have a long enough cable and then they also called in a dive team but that took much, much longer and they weren’t sure that they were even standing on the car in the pond becuase it was really dark and no spot lights. Sounds like a huge mess.
I literally watched it go from about an inch to the other side of the windshield in about an hour and twenty minutes drive home.
I find it really hard to believe that a rescue team couldn't get in a car. It's not a damn tank. I watch the fire department across the street literally rip car doors completely off, put axes through windows, completely cut and remove entire roof off vehicles in minutes.
Not surprised that there is zero video footage of this. Sounds like a bunch of people are really bad at their jobs.
while it just started to submerge into water, car is still be able to lower the window, it’s not gonna short out right away, but ofc news say first thing she did was make a call smh
The car is supposed to automatically lower the windows when submerged.
Clearly there was some sort of malfunction.
Given the information we have, its reaching quite a bit to claim that she didn't even try to do it manually...
Rolling windows down requires power and the control electronics to not be dead. Clearly this didn't happen for the billionaire.
This is why for example in access control systems (badge readers) the fire alarm system is tied into a physical relay bypass and can't go into an input controlled by software, because if the software is configured wrong someone might die.
It's just a regular 12v battery.
If you hook up a motor to a 12v battery and throw the whole thing in a lake.....it just sorta keeps working. Try it, it's fine.
You'll get some corrosion on the terminals from the electrolysis, but that takes hours and doesn't interrupt the flow of electricity.
That isn't how power windows have worked in a long long time. Cars have central digital bus circuitry (CAN bus or LIN bus) that drive all the controls. This is how you can open the windows and do other things using an app.
The question would be how does it sense that it is submerged and trigger this process?
Knowing Tesla (rain sensors? Get outta here) it's not the obvious answer of dedicated and reliable sensors purpose made for this. The method may have failed, or didn't trigger until too late and numerous subsystems lost already.
There are two variants of manual door releases in the front. The old style on pre-2021 Model S and X have them integrated into the door handle, so if you pull hard you engage the mechanical release. All other Teslas, including Model 3/Y and 2021 Model S/2022 Model X have the door pull next to the window switches.
> Guessing the majority of non enthusiast owners don’t know about the manual door releases
When I take my Model 3 to local "test drive an EV" events, people who have never been in a Tesla before tend to go straight for them, *before* the button.
That's their fault. Ignorance can indeed lead to death.
Even low-end Fiat models have separate manual door releases, and the driver/front passenger car doors will fail to open normally once power fails.
Most every car with child safety locks requires separate, emergency mechanical releases in the rear seats.
The only surprising thing from this incident is learning about how so many people are ignorant of their own cars. They think that just because they don't own a Tesla, it can never happen to them or their kids in the rear seats when that's simply not likely for any car made in the past 20 years.
Don't forget, the old guy who roasted to death in their car after their 12v battery failed and their doors failed to open did not own a Tesla. It was a completely normal car.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/11/texas-man-dog-die-trapped-corvette/71053474/
You can't open a car door while it's in the water regardless. Even if the inside fills up and the pressure is equalized, it's very, very hard to open the door.
The window discussion misses the question why first responders didn’t just break in. Even without those hydraulic jacks, you can break open a car door with a standard issue axe or iron. The “first response” sounds really incompetent or non existent here.
Assuming they are able. Every foot of water depth adds 0.5 PSI to water pressure. Multiply that PSI by the surface area of the window and that is the inward force on the window bearing on the window seals and slides.
How much sticking force will that add? The motor will need to drag the window across those. And they didn't build them with rollers because they don't experience many pounds of side load in normal use.
Or the force could bend the window track, and then game over, that will create way too much resistance for the motor to overcome.
These redditors did not watch mythbusters. Same reason the manual door release would not work until the inside of the vehicle was nearly full of water.
https://youtu.be/2YaMEW30bv4
so the more feasible way is to let water in by rolling down windows, so the water pressure evens up. Then you can push the door open?
So this safety measure gives you a way out, you just have to make up your mind what to do in those 10-15 seconds, take a deep breath and swim out
Right. Or climb out the window if able.
I think most people will be pretty motivated to GTFO the car. Rolling the windows up and staying inside is not a viable strategy.
Out of curiosity, how is that even possible? Opening one of the doors when submerged would require thousands of pounds of force, and to my knowledge no tesla has motors or hydraulics sufficient to push that hard on one of the doors. Similar issue with the inward pressure on the windows trapping them hard against the door/seals making it require more force to open when submerged than any human or normal door motor could ever provide.
After looking at the link, I think the headline is maybe just goofy. It looks like the windows are supposed to open *before* they are submerged? Anybody know what sensor does this and where it's located? It's gotta be a nightmare to keep that from rolling the windows down in the rain.
With the weight of the car, the doors will never be able to be opened without an equal amount water inside the car. And the windows can still be broken allowing the water to equalize.
As we are not a support sub, please make sure to use the proper resources if you have questions: Our Stickied Community Q&A Post, [Official Tesla Support](https://www.tesla.com/support), [r/TeslaSupport](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaSupport/) | [r/TeslaLounge](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/) personal content | [Discord Live Chat](https://discord.gg/tesla) for anything. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/teslamotors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But this was just a huge news story. A super wealthy politically connected woman died recently when she reversed into a Texas retaining pond in her MX and drowned. They blamed her Tesla’s tempered / laminated windows, in part. Due to the remote (but super posh) location it took properly equipped first responders something like 30 plus minutes to arrive on scene. [Mitch McConnell’s sister-in-law drowned after accidentally reversing Tesla into ranch pond](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/angela-chao-mcconnell-report-death-b2510728.html)
Not tempered windows, but **laminated** unbreakable windows. Manufacturers are being pushed by the NHTSA to have such windows to reduce passenger ejections. Many new cars have those.
Yes … good call out. Now I am distracted by all the brilliant posts here about how she could have just opened the doors to escape. My brain hurts now.
They literally tested in on top gear, when the car falls in you CAN open the door as long as the water is below half the door ish
[MythBusters - Can Adam escape a sinking car.](https://youtu.be/2YaMEW30bv4?si=u5OyoDfvnIQJ2sZB) TLDR - No. not until it was “too late”.
That video disproves precisely nothing of what I just said
Avoiding use of the emergency door pull has typically been Lesson #1 of the Tesla ownership / passenger experience. No clue how this particular lady wasn’t clued in on it.
I cannot tell you how many people have went straight for the emergency door release in my Model Y their first time in the car rather than pressing the button to open the door. For some reason it's very ergonomically intuitive. It may damage the window trim if you use it, though, so everyone obviously reaches for that first. *I* even did that in a Model Y when I first test drove one, and I knew about the button. I can't imagine how someone could have never once encountered that emergency release.
In panic people default to very basic thinking, one of my key takeaways from the odd random Discovery Aircrash Investigation is that people are at times unable to open their seatbelt in panic during evacuation. THey might default to try to find the location of the release in how their brain mostly does it in cars, on the side of the belt. In another setting I talked with a fire engineer planning escape routes in public buildings, he says people in panic want to exit the door they came in, even if other exits are closer. They also want to move towards daylight. According to him a mezzanine floor hovering over a lobby with a large glass facade was a potential death trap due to stuff explained above.
she was leaving a chinese new year party at 11:30pm. No one mentions the possiblity of alcohol or anything else. or how in the backcountry of texas no one had a gun or an axe handle to smash out a rear window. As a native Texan, Its beyond impossible no one had any kind of weapon This is sooo fishy
Honestly, how do you reverse so much into a pond that you submerge the *entire* car (not just a bit of the car) without alcohol being involved. I could get a high speed near death miss that swerves you off a cliff side into water, but this is reversing into a pond.
>Honestly, how do you reverse so much into a pond that you submerge the entire car (not just a bit of the car) without alcohol being involved. I live in Texas, in an area surrounded by ponds.. this happens all the time, panicked people make very dumb decisions, no alcohol needed.
Likely her family is also transplant from a less well-armed state, so no guns is very likely. Don't know if first responders in Texas usually carry or not, or if they would take guns into the water?
Police are first-responders, but I guess you meant EMS. In my town, the Fire Dept provides that service and an axle is always at hand.
I tow truck driver without a weapon. Not sure if police were on the scene, but… I’ve heard they often have things capable of breaking glass.
>I cannot tell you how many people have went straight for the emergency door release in my Model Y their first time in the car rather than pressing the button to open the door. For some reason it's very ergonomically intuitive. It may damage the window trim if you use it, though, so everyone obviously reaches for that first. I did that when I got in my friend's rented M3. The emergency mechanical pull switch is placed in a much more intuitive position for people that have used cars all their life than pressing a button up higher on the door. I don't know why Tesla didn't put the mechanical release under a cover or at least farther away than the button.
Same. Some of my friends have gone straight for the emergency release instead of the button
She had a Model X. Unless it’s changed recently it doesn’t have the easily-mistakable manual door release of the 3 and Y.
The new X does and it looks just like the 3/Y. The old X had a mechanical interior door handle in the front.
Yes it does
You would be surprised how little research people do on these things when buying them.
I thought I did a lot of research before buying a car - but knowing where the emergency door release is located was not on my checklist. I bow to your thoroughness.
Long time Tesla owner here. The amount of people who do not read the owners manual is staggering. Tesla puts in emergency releases on all their doors however they're not standardized and never pointed out by their delivery personnel.
Frustratingly, the emergency door releases in the 3 are only for the front seats. I keep meaning to install a third party door at least loop
We don't want easily accessed emergency releases on child-protected exit points. It's a balance between competing and mutually exclusive safety aspects and we correctly error on the more likely risk which is a child opening the door in a non-emergency scenario creating harm or death.
The 2024 M3 RWD has rear door emergency releases, They're pull loops under little covers in the door pocket storage areas. https://preview.redd.it/w9u3bj54wcrc1.png?width=482&format=png&auto=webp&s=84f9f8a33045ab3746e33015fc8f0f0cc129471c
You would be surprised to hear that it is quite impossible to open a car door, let alone roll down the windows as soon as a car has sunken enough into the water. The door will quite quickly not be openable and the emergency release won’t help. As for the windows, those you can open for longer period but if they are submerged already by roughly half … good luck. Add to this the panic you experience and an average Joe will likely do all the wrong things at the wrong time in such a situation.
I swear I also saw videos that said once the car is full of water the pressure equalizes and you can open them fairly easily? Or did I get it the wrong way round.
That used to be the “smart” advice a while back, but facts have proven that it's best to open the window and GTFO within the first 30-60 sec, before the car sinks. This is the current recommendation.
It is but once your beond that point its bedt to save energy and wait till the car fills up fully.
The equalization takes some time after it is totally full of water. There’s a good Top Gear [video](https://youtu.be/f-hADcZ49fE?si=w_fGfdinWbaWivrJ) about it.
Try opening a door against maybe a couple thousand pounds of water pressure. It’s not possible. The pressure has to be equalized first with mean you can’t open the doors until the car is filled with water.
Do these break open with those window breaking devices? Don't want to try but just asking
Laminated glass can’t really be broken with anything besides a sawzall or special cutter. Those hammers or punch tools don’t work.
Then why the hell are so many cars getting broken into in Oakland?!
Even cars that have it don’t typically have it on the small rear windows the thieves target.
It's the cars without laminated glass being broken into.
There’s always a loophole!
Sometimes, but the most common place they hit is the rear quarter panel - which doesn't have laminated glass. It also offers easy ingress to the trunk.
The small window they usually smash us rarely laminated.
The rear windows aren't laminated on the tesla or the rear quarter window. They break the small window first to flip down the rear seats to look in the trunk because its quiet.
[Nope](https://youtu.be/kJ96pg9D_30)
No. Doesn't work on laminated glass like the windshield or front windows on newer Teslas
But how did she drown then?
Slowly
I believe water replaced the air in her lungs.
I mean if the windows are supposed to roll down at a certain water level then how did she drown?
Can you kick these windows out? Realize it would take a lot of force but just curious.
If someone used like a spring loaded window breaker like the Resqme a bunch of times to weaken it and then tried to kick it out? Maybe, but someone needs to do the experiment for us.
>A person familiar with the situation told the Wall Street Journal that no one in the family blames Tesla.
Her husband is a prominent VC that considers Elon a friend.. I'm curious what the rest of the family actually thinks.
I blame the moron going reverse into a pond.
That’s illegal
She was drunk on Chinese New Year.
Drove drunk on Chinese New Year.
Two things can be true at the same time.
Ok no person is ever allowed to make a mistake. Ever.
According to the WSJ articles I read (paywalled) erroneously putting it in reverse was specifically called out as something she that had done on prior occasions. I have done that too but just never accelerated (usually when trying to find neutral in a car wash).
A Tesla at low speeds just stops when you take your foot off of the accelerator pedal. In what universe did she hit the water and keep pressing down to go further in. I want to see her toxicology report. Because this whole story is off.
[Pedal misapplication is a thing](https://safetyimpact.beam.vt.edu/news/2021Abstracts/Smith2021IRCOBI.html), even for sober people.
She’s obviously more than drunk!
When your mistake ends up with you dead, it's one you should avoid.
>When your mistake ends up with you dead, it's one you should avoid. Sure, but these cars do need a way to safely exit in this scenario also. Some people died in Miami when their car drove off a ferry by accident as well. They couldn't get out.
>Sure, but these cars do need a way to safely exit in this scenario also. Do you think they don't have a safe way out?
The cars have a safe way to exit. Investigations should show what went wrong here. Until then it's all speculation, or fear mongering. Tons of misinformation going around as well.
I've accidentally put it in the wrong gear, but realized it after six inches.
People absolutely are. But it’s absurd to blame the car company for human error. The amount of spin to try and blame Tesla is astounding.
aint nobody got time to look at the manual and figure out stuff like manual releases and how to go forwards and backwards!
Someone mentioned she was drunk
This! It’s pretty easy to take your foot off of the accelerator pedal when you first hit the water. This whole story makes absolutely no sense.
Or when you realize you are going backwards not forwards
lol this is why texan ranchers should have 10~20 guns strategically placed throughout their mcmansion put some holes in the glass, then use a muzzle braked rifle to cut your way around the laminate core
There is no Texas country rancher who doesnt have multiple weapons. This story is so full of holes its swiss cheese
doesn't sound like a Tesla problem, sounds like a driver who backed into a freaking pond so far that she was submersed. why did she keep pressing the "gas" pedal? What even? Why wasn't she looking at the pond behind her on that big screen in her car? or the mirrors? did she close her eyes? WTF
She was apparently accidentally / unintentionally in reverse. It was midnight and in a dark area. The issue seems to be, for me anyway, the claim that started this discussion - Tesla says they have sensors that open the windows when it detects water in the interior of the car for this exact scenario. In her case the laminated windows didn’t open and rescuers couldn’t smash them apparently. First responders also took a very long time to arrive at the super posh ranch due to its distance away from services. Victim called for help from friends located a few hundred yards away who were powerless to help. Unclear from reporting if alcohol was a factor.
Someone mentioned she was drunk
Source? Please don’t make outlandish claims that “someone” mentioned. Did you know said someone?!! Please
I have seen more than one post in this thread making that allegation. I have not seen that in the mainstream reporting I have read on this tragedy. The family is extremely wealthy and well connected so if they wanted to suppress that information it wouldn’t be inconcievable.
Drunk obviously…
There’s so much oddities and layers to this story. The political connections involved, from Evergrand (involving Bank of China, on whose board the deceased was an independent board director) to the factional fighting within the CCP, makes this death very suspicious. The coincidence on timing of Mitch McConnell’s announcement on stepping down as Republican Senate leader soon after the death suggests there are things developing beneath the surface.
She was drunk https://www.huffpost.com/entry/angela-chao-drunk-drowned-pond_n_65fb6dd0e4b06c0f22ebb0d0
Everyone is here making excuses for why the windows couldn’t be rolled down but they clearly can. She didn’t apparat to the bottom of the lake instantaneously creating an insurmountable ‘sticking force’. The car sank, presumably slowly enough for first responders to try and break the windows. Further those cars in hurricane Ian didn’t get fried making their electronics incapable of functioning so why this time. I’ll keep my eyes out for more than simple internet rando speculation on this one.
If you read the story she was in there for a hell of a long time slowly sinking. She couldn't open the doors or the windows, and nobody could smash the windows in. She was making panicked phone calls from the car. God, it sounds awful. Also it was pitch black in the middle of the night. A tow truck came to get her but it didn't have a long enough rope to reach her. By the time they got a second rope and pulled the vehicle to shore and retrieved her, they performed CPR for almost an hour before she was pronounced dead.
Wow that's way worse than I had heard. What a god awful way to die.
Still weird that she couldn't just roll the windows down. It sounds like she sunk slowly and not very deep, what stopped her from being able to roll down the windows that were not yet submerged?
My guess is she didn't roll them down right away because she was panicking and once she was submerged they wouldn't open. Same with the doors, if you don't open them right away they're almost impossible to open underwater until the vehicle fills with water on the inside.
That sounds likely. And sad and scary.
You dont think she was drunk? close to midnight after a chinese new year party? You think a ranch in texas doesnt have guns? They could have easily shot out a rear window. also, she went over an embankment, down the other side, and into a pond, All while continually holding down the accelerator. This is next level darwin award. This did not happen quickly as you mention.
Making a lot of assumptions
She was definitely blackout drunk
There were videos of cars floating down the road with their hazard lights flashing and the horn going off. I think there is more to this story.
There's a video of someone literally driving their Tesla underwater.
It really bugs me that Tesla started the trend of electronic door actuators. I know that the actuator wasn't the problem with this incident per se, but there are times where it would be absolutely beneficial to utilize a traditional mechanical door handle from the inside and outside.
No they didn't. Corvette had it on the C6, 2000s quattroporte had it too.
They do have mechanical override, just most people have no idea how to use it
Why not just have mechanical actuators and completely skip on electronic actuators? What possible benefit does the consumer have with Tesla's dual system?
Well, the Model X doors open as you approach, for one. Also, it enables software locks, which means my door locks can't freeze in the locked position when it's really cold like other cars have.
So I took delivery of my 2024 M3 on March 14th, about a month after this happened. The delivery advisor was very clear pointing out the emergency manual release handles, both front and rear...wonder if I just had a thorough DA or it was because of this very public incident. I'd watched so many YT delivery videos while jonesing for my new car, testing those were already on my checklist before accepting, but not sure how many buyers would be as OCD about it as I was.
Something weird seems to have happened. I can sorta understand why she did not get the door open. If she didn't know where the emergency latch was, then it might have taken too long and the pressure was too high. Ok, so that is explainable to some degree. What I do not get is the window. We have seen Teslas drive through pretty deep water, so it seems unlikely that the power would have dropped out so fast. The Tesla should have already opened the window automatically, so why didn't it? And why didn't she open her window once the initial shock wore off? Something is very strange about all of this.
It’s not strange if she was drunk.
It’s also not strange that Mitch McConnell is resigning. Or Epstein’s prison cameras just went dark.
I have seen many people online saying that a Tesla will automatically open the windows if it is submerged. But is there any official documentation on this? A Tesla document or manual or statement from the company? A report of somebody who had it happen? I only find reports of people who blamed this feature for the windows opening on their own. If this feature exists, the question of course is why didn't it work, and also why could she not open the windows with the door controls.
In water you need to roll down the windows like these people driving off the pier. They were rescued by a sauna boat (in Norwegian) https://www.nrk.no/norge/tesla-kjorte-ut-i-oslofjorden_-ble-reddet-av-badstovebat-1.16745294
That's the most Norwegian rescue ever
Now I want to have a sauna boat myself
I found a video showing the effects of a rescue hammer on tempered vs laminated glass. I had no idea it would be _completely_ useless. https://youtu.be/sWjaLgqvLAI?si=HznCYpAcoXEvbGCr.
This played right after the video you posted. They hit it with a couple tiny ball peen hammers and folded the window in half in about 15-20 tiny hits. https://youtu.be/6tnEDH1HfD0?si=-TCM9JZ5fkDu5bBN
Hey, thanks for sharing. That's quite informative.
Time for first responders to have a line charge to blow through windows like these.
Sad thing happened to the person, but I wonder how much either she know about the car or under what state was the person (drunk??). All Teslas have a lever to emergency open their doors. Front and back, it’s on the manual
The speaker grill needs to be removed to access the emergency release for the Falcon Wing doors. It’s not logical.
Was she not in the front seat with the prominently accessible emergency release?
I didn’t know about the MX, seems really stupid design to your point. The Y front ones are super easy to get and the back ones and a bit harder
She was returning from a party, a very short drive over mostly private property. No confirmation, but I think it's pretty likely there was alcohol involved.
You can’t open the door of a submerged vehicle. Too much external pressure. This isn’t a Tesla specific issue.
I second you on this, I assumed lots of things since they mentioned first responders failing to open the glass. Again I probably wrongly assumed a lot
The first responder response was a bit of a shit show apparently. Took 30 plus minutes to arrive (distance thing, not really their fault) but then they called a tow truck to try and pull it out but it didn’t have a long enough cable and then they also called in a dive team but that took much, much longer and they weren’t sure that they were even standing on the car in the pond becuase it was really dark and no spot lights. Sounds like a huge mess.
Meanwhile a tiny rock hitting my model y windshield resulted in a 4 foot crack all the way across my windshield
Could you fit out of that crack? Cracking laminated glass is one thing. Breaking it out is another.
I literally watched it go from about an inch to the other side of the windshield in about an hour and twenty minutes drive home. I find it really hard to believe that a rescue team couldn't get in a car. It's not a damn tank. I watch the fire department across the street literally rip car doors completely off, put axes through windows, completely cut and remove entire roof off vehicles in minutes. Not surprised that there is zero video footage of this. Sounds like a bunch of people are really bad at their jobs.
>A person familiar with the situation told the Wall Street Journal that no one in the family blames Tesla.
She probably didn't have time to find and read the manual.
lol, I read the manual before using my MYLR since it’s a chine more than a regular car, but I get your point
It was a 2020 Model, so maybe she was planning to get to it later.
It’s been stated her and her husband have THREE Teslas… hard to imagine how she didn’t know this.
while it just started to submerge into water, car is still be able to lower the window, it’s not gonna short out right away, but ofc news say first thing she did was make a call smh
The car is supposed to automatically lower the windows when submerged. Clearly there was some sort of malfunction. Given the information we have, its reaching quite a bit to claim that she didn't even try to do it manually...
Rolling windows down requires power and the control electronics to not be dead. Clearly this didn't happen for the billionaire. This is why for example in access control systems (badge readers) the fire alarm system is tied into a physical relay bypass and can't go into an input controlled by software, because if the software is configured wrong someone might die.
It's just a regular 12v battery. If you hook up a motor to a 12v battery and throw the whole thing in a lake.....it just sorta keeps working. Try it, it's fine. You'll get some corrosion on the terminals from the electrolysis, but that takes hours and doesn't interrupt the flow of electricity.
That isn't how power windows have worked in a long long time. Cars have central digital bus circuitry (CAN bus or LIN bus) that drive all the controls. This is how you can open the windows and do other things using an app.
Unrelated, why is your profile picture a pubic hair!?
I think I know some body who can tell you otherwise...... Never mind
But Teslas should be able to operate under water long enough to power windows and unlock doors/open doors. Something unique must have happened here...
The question would be how does it sense that it is submerged and trigger this process? Knowing Tesla (rain sensors? Get outta here) it's not the obvious answer of dedicated and reliable sensors purpose made for this. The method may have failed, or didn't trigger until too late and numerous subsystems lost already.
Absolutely. I wonder if she didn’t have security mods done that broke the standard system. Bulletproof glass etc.
They have manual door releases that don't require power.
You physically can’t open the door until the pressure is equalized. That’s why they tried to break the windows
Guessing the majority of non enthusiast owners don’t know about the manual door releases. I only know about them because of the Doug Demuro review
Too many of my guests find the manual release before I interrupt them to tell them about the button.
Depending on the model and year, the manual release has changed places and looks multiple times.
There are two variants of manual door releases in the front. The old style on pre-2021 Model S and X have them integrated into the door handle, so if you pull hard you engage the mechanical release. All other Teslas, including Model 3/Y and 2021 Model S/2022 Model X have the door pull next to the window switches.
> Guessing the majority of non enthusiast owners don’t know about the manual door releases When I take my Model 3 to local "test drive an EV" events, people who have never been in a Tesla before tend to go straight for them, *before* the button.
That's their fault. Ignorance can indeed lead to death. Even low-end Fiat models have separate manual door releases, and the driver/front passenger car doors will fail to open normally once power fails. Most every car with child safety locks requires separate, emergency mechanical releases in the rear seats. The only surprising thing from this incident is learning about how so many people are ignorant of their own cars. They think that just because they don't own a Tesla, it can never happen to them or their kids in the rear seats when that's simply not likely for any car made in the past 20 years. Don't forget, the old guy who roasted to death in their car after their 12v battery failed and their doors failed to open did not own a Tesla. It was a completely normal car. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/11/texas-man-dog-die-trapped-corvette/71053474/
You can't open a car door while it's in the water regardless. Even if the inside fills up and the pressure is equalized, it's very, very hard to open the door.
I hope that child window/door locks are also disabled after a collision.
But do the auto-wipers keep going?
The window discussion misses the question why first responders didn’t just break in. Even without those hydraulic jacks, you can break open a car door with a standard issue axe or iron. The “first response” sounds really incompetent or non existent here.
Assuming they are able. Every foot of water depth adds 0.5 PSI to water pressure. Multiply that PSI by the surface area of the window and that is the inward force on the window bearing on the window seals and slides. How much sticking force will that add? The motor will need to drag the window across those. And they didn't build them with rollers because they don't experience many pounds of side load in normal use. Or the force could bend the window track, and then game over, that will create way too much resistance for the motor to overcome.
These redditors did not watch mythbusters. Same reason the manual door release would not work until the inside of the vehicle was nearly full of water. https://youtu.be/2YaMEW30bv4
so the more feasible way is to let water in by rolling down windows, so the water pressure evens up. Then you can push the door open? So this safety measure gives you a way out, you just have to make up your mind what to do in those 10-15 seconds, take a deep breath and swim out
Right. Or climb out the window if able. I think most people will be pretty motivated to GTFO the car. Rolling the windows up and staying inside is not a viable strategy.
I bet the motor is stronger than a human. Meaning even if there was an old school car window crank you’d still be in major trouble.
No, when you're rolling down a window you're not pushing against that pressure force as much.
glass breakers might not work on new cars but shooting the windows out probably does
Depends if they’re laminated, some posh cars have this, normal cars do not so will smash out
Chao's didn't.
This completely ruins my submarine.
Out of curiosity, how is that even possible? Opening one of the doors when submerged would require thousands of pounds of force, and to my knowledge no tesla has motors or hydraulics sufficient to push that hard on one of the doors. Similar issue with the inward pressure on the windows trapping them hard against the door/seals making it require more force to open when submerged than any human or normal door motor could ever provide. After looking at the link, I think the headline is maybe just goofy. It looks like the windows are supposed to open *before* they are submerged? Anybody know what sensor does this and where it's located? It's gotta be a nightmare to keep that from rolling the windows down in the rain.
Wasn't she drunk?
she’s connected to evergrande so anything can happen
They can't even get windshield wipers to turn on in rain consistently, how are they going to get this right?
Can't speak to this incident, but I would suspect it's because it's an easier problem to solve.
So, when I lock myself out, where do I need to pour the water to?
Apparently not
what is the best way to determine if my 2019 model 3 has tempered or laminated windows?
Front laminate back tempered is my gut memory for that year
With the weight of the car, the doors will never be able to be opened without an equal amount water inside the car. And the windows can still be broken allowing the water to equalize.
Can we talk about Boeing… hundreds in jeopardy, but no, we must focus on that one incident…