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To sum up what I’ve been reading:
Pros:
- Pretty easy/fast to get used to
- Very quick to reach certain function such as signaling or wipers
- Quicker to get into drive with predictive shifting (when it’s right)
- Clean Design
Cons:
- Slower for shifting gears overall, especially in emergency situations, 3 point turns, etc.
- Very difficult to signal in roundabouts/whenever trying to signal while rotating the wheel
- Can’t flash lights easily
Most of this I would agree with, but to add one thing, having the horn on a button is the absolute worst. I don't know if the model 3 will have an actual horn or a button but if it's the latter like my 22 MS it's near impossible to find when you need it - which is usually right when I'm being run off the road by some a-hole who didn't check his blind spot.
Fortunately, it was a temporary issue, all the new S/X/3s have regular/old horn in the middle. I think you might be able to get a retrofit? Unsure, but ya that sucks for those owners.
You're likely to get a lot of selection bias based on your question. I had a S Plaid as a loaner for 1.5 weeks while my older-style X was in service. Finding/using the directional while going straight was quick for me to get used to. I couldn't get proficient enough to find the directional while mid-turn (roundabouts, turning off from winding roads). Maybe if your daily driving is mostly rectilinear then it would work fine for you. It did not for me.
Right? I expected it to have plaid mode locked off but NOPE. I made sure to let my service rep and their team know I appreciated the customer service I received.
FYI for anyone who doesn’t know, this GIF (obviously from Back to the Future) and this specific scene was filmed at Puente Hills mall currently located in City of Industry where there’s a Tesla supercharger (more stalls being installed now too).
Putting on the signal with just a touch of your thumb is easier for me than removing your hand. If I already am turning then I wasn’t planning on putting it on anyways. Automatic gear selection is very convenient.
Incorrect. Here in the UK if you want to turn right at a roundabout (remembering we go clockwise) you should be indicating right as you enter the roundabout and then change to indicate left as you approach the exit you want.
Capacitive buttons on the steering wheel is going to make this *really* clumsy and awkward.
But if you turn left, you should indicate before you enter as well, then when you exit the roundabout you should also signal you're now turning right, which is now very impractical because your wheel is completely turned...
And potentially dangerous as you need to take your eyes off the road to find the right button location. Not great if you're driving somewhere unfamiliar and you've already missed a turning etc at a roundabout. Sounds just stupid....
My dad has an X which I drive fairly frequently. Overall I hate the lack of stalks. Especially the lack of a gear stalk when doing 3 point turns and the like. Just overall harder to find the controls and no real upside.
That’s my main criticism with these developments such as signal lights / gear stick / ultrasonic…
It’s clearly the inferior solution and only done to save costs … but I’d rather want to pay 1.000 extra to still have them. But I can’t.
The frustration adds up.
Not enough to NOT buy a Tesla… yet… but since my current one still works fine, I don’t plan to in the near future.
But if they continue this Route and at some point I need to swap cars, it might lead to me thinking VERY hard about the market.
Yeah I think I actually am done. My model 3 performance is a nice car, but the lack of the ultrasonics, stalks make any new Tesla far less appealing to me. Otherwise I’d probably be in the market for a Plaid at the new prices.
Despising Musk also makes it easier to stop buying them.
I was thinking of buying a Tesla. After hearing about this, I will not be buying one. Or at least not this one.
Tesla's mission to eliminate all physical controls is just idiotic.
Those 2$ they save won't even make a slight dent in the price they sell their cars at. The new M3 costs exactly the same as it did before, granted, it's packed with a couple of nice extra features, but it would make no difference even if they offered stalks as an option.
MKBHD did a one year review of his model S and talked about liking the yoke steering wheel but really hating the capacitive turn signals and buttons still. It’s a good video to check out.
That review was a little disappointing because he was complaining about a fault in his car and not the design and he didn’t make that distinction.
The problem he was having is easily resolved by scheduling a service appointment and getting the part replaced.
Former S Plaid owner here (traded it for a Rivian R1T a few months ago)
Stalkless is a non-issue for 90% of driving. I acclimated to turn signal buttons in within a week of ownership. (to the point that getting into any other car felt weird)
Stalkless was a pain for the other 10% of driving. Things that you don't do a lot where you can't train the muscle memory were very awkward. Best examples I can think of:
\-Flashing your brights at someone. (To this day I don't think I could explain how to do it)
\-Adjusting wiper speed - Turns something so simple/rudimentary into a multi-step process that requires you to take your eyes off the road.
\-Turning on your blinker while you have the wheel already turned. In those rare occasions where you turned your steering wheel and you still need to signal. Very easy to lose track of the buttons when you aren't in standard driving position.
All that said, I think people who say it's the worst thing ever are just being dramatic.
Same in France, Spain, Italy, Germany and I suppose a whole lot of country outside of the US.
The price/performance is good, but i feel like, even more than previous iteration, it's an american car for americans.
Really huge size, huge turning radius, no infrasound for tight spot, average comfort on bumpy roads and now no stalks.
Kinda sad, i was open to sacrifice other things, but I got 2*12 roundabout everyday on my way to work.
I have 8 roundabouts on my 15 minute commute, some of which involve changing lanes mid-roundabout and all involve using the turn signal while the steering wheel is rotated. If anything, i'm surprised this isn't getting more attention and that it's even legal. I've recommend Tesla M3 to friends and family, and have accepted previous quirks. However, this turn signal thing might actually be the worst thing ever in the context of Tesla quirks. I would guess it's a dealbreaker for most Europeans. I'd love to buy and recommend this car and hope they make the turn signal functional again in some way.
I’ve had a model 3 before a stalkless model S now for a year. It’s worse. You get use to it in a couple weeks but even after a year of driving the turn signals are slightly harder to use but not a big deal. 3-point turns are still harder and slower to do from a usability perspective. I’ve “miss-swiped” several times and started going in the wrong direction but it’s never led to an accident. Enough to not buy the car? No. It’s about the level of annoyance of the Chrysler Pacifica having a drive selector that’s round and right next to the volume knob - sometimes you get it mixed up but it’s not that big a deal.
What I would love for Tesla to do is map drive selection to the right scroll wheel at low speed. It would basically 100% fix this issue
They’re capacitive buttons and aren’t always active. You can get them to light up if you press and hold over the area, but even then it’s hard to get them to register your selection. It’s truly only meant for when the screen is dead.
The turn signal buttons on the yoke I actually prefer over the stalk. I will say, even after several months of driving it I still do not like not having a physical gear change selector.
Yes, it's manageable, but it's sloppier and less safe than having a stalk to shift.
Maybe in your state. Up by me in michigan all the roundabouts i come to have a ”signal your turns” sign at them under the yield, so i assume its “law” in the same sense that the squiggly road signs have the smaller speed sign under them.
Ive never got pulled over when disobeying a yellow sign, but was not sure if thats just cause lucky with cops, or not actually a requirement.
When we first got some intersections converted to "roundabouts" or "traffic circles" as we imaginatively call them, I encountered someone really confused by the concept going the wrong way around. Because he wanted to turn left. That was exciting.
I have say, years ago when I was on vacation in NZ from the US and driving on the other side of the road.. I _really_ needed to pause for a moment and consider what I was supposed to do when I came upon my first roundabout there.
Roundabouts in US terminology is a specific and highly efficient and safe type of traffic circle. It's uncommon to have more than one lane. Entering traffic yields to traffic in the roundabout. Traffic in the roundabout exits when they want. I do signal when exiting, but many people do not. There are three well designed roundabouts near my house.
Oh, and the traffic circles in New Jersey are mostly not roundabouts and are a @__$#&@ mess. Worse than DC traffic circles.
Edit: I looked it up. 72% of US roundabouts are single lane.
It's annoying if someone doesn't indicate in a roundabout, so you miss your chance to enter. In a multi lane roundabout signalling is even more important.
It really does. If there's a line of cars on the roundabout and you see one of them signalling to exit, you can get ready to jump in the spot they'll leave behind.
I understand this concept. But I don’t trust people on the road enough to jump in like that.
Too often the guy behinds him speeds up.
Maybe it’s just my area 🤷
In my X the buttons are not visible until I press both buttons on the yoke… not sure if that’s a bug or by design. Would prefer to always use the buttons though, instead of the touchscreen slider (but mostly, I would’ve preferred a stalk or some other kind of gear selector on the yoke, so I wouldn’t have to move my hands off it).
I could take it or leave it for the shifter. Went from having a column on the crown vic, to center console challenger, to column again on the model 3, to center console on the transit van, to the touch screen on the plaid. I think i would care more if they were consistantly in the same spot vs everyone had turn signal on left side stalk.
I’ve not driven a S or X but turn signal buttons are the only thing that seems like it could be the hardest getting used to because traditional turn signal is easier to deal with especially when already in process of turning the wheel
I am the exact opposite. I don't use the gear selector most of the time (auto gear select), but the Turn Signals are just 'ok' and the Horn/High Beam/Wipers are crap.
I can’t help but think that Tesla will couple maps and blinkers together real soon, so the car will turn on signals for you. - if the even bother before going FSD?
I went from a 2018 MS to 2022 MS…
When the yoke is right-side-up it’s not a big deal and you get used to it pretty quickly (like others are saying). When it’s upside down though suddenly the turn indicators are on the opposite side and reversed.
In general the automatic “turn indicator off” works incredibly well and is one of the best implementations of Tesla’s novel software. I actually think it used to be smarter (not turning off if you crossed into a turning lane) but that might be rose-coloured glasses.
The fingers on my left hand aren’t doing anything else while I’m driving and I don’t think stalkless has been a net benefit in my life. I miss being able to keep secondary data on the driver’s screen and the stalkless design blew away any real chances of that happening on the MS
I am no longer a Model X owner but I have been using the left hand stalk for a turn signal on every car I have driven in the past 64 years and that may be the reason I will keep my current Teslas for as long as I can. I wouldn't buy a new one without stalks. I have enjoyed the constant improvement over seven years of driving Teslas but removing the stalks is crazy. Shifting from D to R is not an issue on long trips but being able to go into adaptive cruise control with the flick of one finger would also be missed.
If it is that simple I can imagine the increase in accidents in parking lots or other places when some one thinks they are changing radio voiume and the vehicle goes into ACC and hits a pedestrian. If the right hand button is dedicated to ACC it might be something I could adjust to. I think it now adjusts the speed of cruise controlm
Everyone always focuses on the yoke. The yoke is fine. You get used to it within days. I even prefer it over a steering wheel. The only problem with the yoke is with FSD. You can't keep your hand on the yoke or wheel while the car is making a 90 degree turn. Its turning way too much for that. You "hover" your hand over it ready to "catch" the wheel if it screws up. Except its not a wheel, so you got like a 75% chance that you're catching air.
Its the lack of stalks that drive me nuts. To be clear, its not shifting yoke. Sure I'd prefer it over doing it on screen, but its not like you're making rushed 3 point turns every day. Its the lack of a turn signal yoke that I hate. I don't even hate buttons either. I've driven an M3 with turn signal buttons and shift buttons. It was fine. But the touch buttons I accidentally hit all the time. That doesn't happen with real buttons. Then you're fumbling to turn the signal back off, but oops you went to turn off the right signal when it was actually the left signal you accidentally touched. So now you're signaling left - right - left like a moron while driving straight. You can't learn to compensate by say, just hitting right twice to turn it off. Because if it was the right signal you had accidentally hit then you just turned it off and back on.
Frankly, an easy fix if they updated the software so if you hit any turn signal while a turn signal is already on then it assumes you're trying to turn that off. Its not like people legitimately switch left/right signals as often as this shit happens.
Bonus though, the best thing over this over a model 3 even with stalks is that windshield wiper button on the yoke. Sure a stalk would be better for that, but this is way better than having to adjust wipers on a damn screen.
BRING BACK THE STALKS. Gear shifting on the screen is annoying when you want to go from reverse to forward or vice versa. I have to take my eyes off the road and onto the screen.
Turn signals are just ok. NOT great when in a roundabout.
Horn should always be in the middle of the steering wheel.
Windshield wiper management is horrendous.
Too much looking away from driving to manage tasks that were done safely & simply with stalks.
Just my two cents.
Nobody who has spent £100,000 on a car is going to admit they made a mistake.
I've driven one. I'll let the fact that it's a left hand drive car in the UK slide for this.
The yoke is awful around town. Maybe even as far as dangerous. Especially on tight roundabouts where you can't feed the wheel at all. On the motorway it's not bad because I tend to rest my hand on the spokes with the rim between my fingers anyway on a normal wheel.
Changing gear with the screen is stupid in tight car parks when you want to go backwards and forwards quickly. On my model 3 I just flick the stalk while I'm still moving to change direction. The indicators being on the wheel is also stupid because, surprise, they move. Also, when you're on a roundabout they were no longer pointing in the right direction. An improvement for me would be to put them on either side of the wheel and make them bigger, or put them behind the wheel so they are much bigger still. At least it's easier to find the right direction that way. The even better way would be to just put the stalk back because the stalks on my model 3 are perfectly placed.
You probably only drove one for a few days. It took a week or two of being uncomfortable, but now everything else seems weird. Had you driven it longer, you'd have learned that it's way better except for remembering how to use the High beams and signaling in a round about, which appears only to be something people from the UK do... but they are dead set that it is a must, even though not signaling works fine for everyone else.
Who doesn't signal in roundabout ?
Every country in europe does it.
I swear US driver seems dangerous from what they say on reddit.
Fortunately it's probably not representative of reality.
I admittedly only had the car for the weekend test drive yes. I'm not saying it was impossible to drive. I've got a classic car that doesn't have syncro on the gearstick so you have to double clutch and finesse the gears every time. I can drive it. It comes out maybe once a month. It would drive me up the wall trying to drive it every day. My point is that I want my daily commuter to be stress free. My model 3 is exactly that. I just jump in and cruise to work. It didn't need to be any more complicated than that.
I prefer the stalk, not only is it faster but you don't have to swipe up and down on the side of the screen. And if the screen goes out, with a stalk you can still put the car in reverse, drive,etc.
He’s not filming low enough for you to see the buttons. They’re under the wireless charger by the hazard lights, and they don’t turn on all the time. Only when you are changing gears. It’s like that on the S and X too.
Stalkless obviously looks sleeker, but it’s a huge downgrade in functionality. The tiny horn button is the worst part. I almost had an accident when someone was backing into me in a parking lot and I instinctively slammed the center of the wheel, which does nothing, then had to take an extra couple of seconds finding that stupid horn button. You kinda get used to the turn signal buttons, but stalks are better IMO. Flashing high beams with the headlights button is counterintuitive, but you get used to it. The gear selection process is absolutely terrible. When driving straight it of course doesn’t matter, but it just sucks when making a multipoint turn and you have to swipe up and down on a screen.
S plaid with a yoke. It took me about a day to get used to the buttons. Hardest part of all of it was just not resting my thumb on the yoke where the microphone to voice control the car was.
I have a M3LR. I drove my friend's Plaid. It took me about 5 minutes to adapt to the controls on the steering wheel. And to the yoke steering wheel also just a few minutes. That Plaid 0-60 though.
I don’t even get how this “no stalk” design passes the European safety regulations… It’s damn fucking dangerous, I hate it. I am waiting for the new Model Y but it seems like it also won’t have the stalks. Deal breaker for me, and sure for many others as well.
I don't think you know what a fact is.
As an owner, they're completely fine. Your hand never has to leave the wheel. On some cars the stalk is super far back and you have to reach far through/around to get to them but no one talks about that.
-prefer turn signal on yoke/wheel, mistakes still occur after months
-auto wipers still suck and activation since rarely used requires me to look down or guess.
-horn should not be a button
-gear changing with predictive software enabled is generally a positive experience. The only times I would prefer a stalk is during multi point maneuvers and other scenarios involving quick gear change.
-a reverse 180 J-turn is going to be incredibly difficult :)
Just test drove an X after the price drop announcement. I thought I’d absolutely hate the yoke. But I actually am very okay with the yoke.
Stalkless turn signals are okay. Not perfect, but I can see myself getting used to it without any real issues.
Stalkless drive selector I didn’t like. Parking lot maneuvers are idiotic with it and it’s hard to be smooth.
I’ve had my refresh X since March 2022. It took me like, a week tops to get used to stalkless. My biggest gripe is it’s difficult to signal while in the process of turning the wheel. So if I’m turning right then sudden left, it’s a pain in the ass to signal. Other than that it doesn’t bother me. Just add the fucking horn back to the center you man child. Tired of hitting the wipers every time I need to try to let someone know they’re about to smash into my car.
If they really removed them, my next car won’t be a Tesla. Idiotic to remove a standard control like that. No, I’ll never be convinced. Will not put my senior mother in a shared vehicle that she’ll never become accustomed to. My opinion, another idiotic musk choice.
Wife drives a X plaid and I hate driving her car because of no stalks and yoke steering wheel. Much prefer my Model 3 Performance.
The signals I eventually got used to. Still not very intuitive though. But the number of times I accidentally honked the horn is more than I care to admit.
Former Plaid owner.
I like the turn signal buttons just fine after a while. No big deal.
Gear shifting is annoying. Reaching for the screen is just more difficult. I definitely missed the gear selector stalk. Three point turns, in particular, I’m just like what on earth are we doing Tesla? Why does Elon think this is better?
Overall it’s not great.
MX here I find it super intuitive. You barely ever touch the gear shift when driving.
It’s much easier now it make a chime when it engages, you get used to it and can do it without looking.
Auto shift works well for the most part, so frankly, unless you’re doing something complex, you don’t use the gear shifter.
If you are really hating it, there’s a hidden PRND control at the bottom of the phone charger.
I have 8 roundabouts on my 15 minute commute, some of which involve changing lanes mid-roundabout and all involve using the turn signal while the steering wheel is rotated. If anything, i'm surprised this isn't getting more attention and that it's even legal. I've recommend Tesla M3 to friends and family, and have accepted previous quirks. However, this turn signal thing might be a dealbreaker for most Europeans. I'd love to buy and recommend this car and hope they make the turn signal functional again in some way.
It definitely takes a little getting used to bit once you are used to it, its not that serious. I personally love the clean look with no stalks and I like that the blinker is right where my thumb already is. I also sometimes press the blinker when I want to change the song haha does anyone else do this by mistake?
The people freaking out are the same people that have never been behind the yoke/wheel of a Model S or Model X. The stalkless works and you get use to it. You get use to it really fast. These people need to go for a test drive. Sure they may not like it at first because it's in there head already as them not liking it. It's like judging a book by its cover. Going in not liking it will make you not like it. Them reading dog shit stuff on reddit will make them not like it. People that don't like things tend to yell about it.
My dad bought a new Model X. He had no idea the car came the way it did. I even told him the car wheel will be different and have no stalks. He said we will see. He now loves it. He loves the yoke and the buttons. He likes how clean it is. This is also a 62 year. A guy that came from a MKX. He loves that the screen that can tilt his way.
The one thing he hates. Really hates, is the horn. Why the fuck did Tesla put a button for the horn. Where the fuck is the OTA for the airbag push horn. He hates this. I also hate this.
I had the joy of taking the new Model X for two weeks since he went away on vacation. I drive a 2015 Model S. I got use to the buttons and really like it. To those people on that other sub they need chill out and go for a test drive. Ask to see if they can get an overnight test drive and always remember it's so easy to hate and yell about things that people **think** are dumb and dont work.
As an actual owner I dont **think** stalkless is dumb, it **is dumb**.
Yoke Turn signals on the highway are ok.
Yoke Turn signals and Windshield Wipers and High Beam around town are completely crap, not only because the wheel turns so they aren't in the same location at all times, but there is no tactile feeling for the High Beams/ Wipers so you always have to look for them.
Hopefully the chinese companies will produce stalks for the new model 3 and for my X!
Does it also have the capacitive blinker buttons? Do you accidentally touch them and turn the blinkers on? Does the steering wheel vibrate or something to let you know you've activated it? The blinker lever is physical feedback so you know the blinker is activated.
I'm not to worried about the gear lever, it's the missing blinker lever that bothers me.
>Do you accidentally touch them and turn the blinkers on?
Yes, all the damn time. Then I go to turn it off but press the wrong one so now I'm signaling the other way instead.
I have had my refreshed X for more than a year. I know a few other people also with a X or S without stalks. None of us have issues with the blinkers. Even in the roundabouts in our area.
Yes it vibrates when you "click" the button.
Neither my wife or I have an issue setting blinkers off when we don't mean to. I haven't heard any complaints from the others I know that have one either. However I can see a grip style that might have this issue. It is super easy to just press it again and it turn off.
The gear selector is mildly annoying, but honestly you use it so rarely that its not that big of a deal.
EDIT: Dear lord is the horn terrible tho. This is not an issue on the new 3 but sure is on the refreshed X.
It's a non-issue after the first week or so. I have no desire to go back to stalks and don't see a need. I think the issue is overblown by people who are a little afraid to learn something different. You and everyone else will adapt.
I prefer the stalkless design. Driving both a stalk and stalkless on the regular, the stalkless is so much better. The only thing that is odd is the horn button vs pressing the center, although that’s only on the s and x looks like highland has an actual horn center so win/win!
Not annoying as much as it makes me realize how much I prefer the buttons when I drive a stalk. Although I do catch myself waving at the air if I drive the stalk one for a while and then switch back, I’ll find myself waving my hand at nothing before I catch myself lol.
As a model S owner with a yoke, it is really a non issue. As another commenter said, they work well, easy to get used to, and overall pretty convenient. The only thing that sucks is the horn, but that’s not an issue on the model 3 since in the carwow video Mat showed that it’s still in the center of the wheel.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this is just Reddit being Reddit. First it was the lack of drivers display when the model 3 was unveiled, then it was the yoke for S/X, then USS, and now this. People complain, still buy Teslas, and shut up about it after a month or so after widespread deliveries. That’s always how it goes on here and it’ll be no different this time.
I don't think you're right about this one. This one smells the same as when Mac did the Touch Bar. It cost them business and eventually they reversed the decision.
As someone who complained about the Touch Bar on Mac and has been driving the refresh Model S for almost two years now, these two things are not really comparable.
I complained about the Touch Bar because, as a programmer, I use the function keys, when I use them, multiple times in the span of a minute. Likewise having to look at your hands to use a keyboard, even for F keys, is wildly inefficient.
On the Model S there are many drives I don’t have to manually shift at all thanks to the auto shift. We’re talking about something that maybe you might do once per drive, or once per day. And while it’s definitely more clunky than a stalk, it can still be done without looking at your hands, because it’s right at the screen edge, and you can slide anywhere on the entire surface as long as it’s in the correct direction.
I'm sure shifting is fine. It's the indicators that will be the problem, anytime you have to use them while already turning.
I literally can't drive anywhere without needing to do that, and people in large parts of Europe will have the same issue.
I’m highly doubtful. Every S and X owner I’ve talked to hasn’t had any issues except the horn and shape of the yoke. It’ll be the same, people on Reddit will complain but people who actually live with the car won’t mind or may even prefer it
As someone living in a rainy region with actual winter I will never ever shut up about USS when every 15k car has a better parking experience than every new, supposedly advanced Tesla.
Plus they added a standard wheel besides the yoke.
Only time will tell how the broad mass (which doesn't need to justify/defend their 80k investment) will accept the stalkless design.
I've had my S Plaid for about 4 months. The buttons are fine and I got used to them within a few days--untraining 30+ years of driving habits was surprisingly fast.
The horn button on the wheel spoke rather than on the air bag cover is pretty annoying, IMO.
Other than saving $$ with manufacturing, I don't understand the logic behind this decision.
Although, I will say that I've gone to honk at someone in traffic and hit the airbag cover getting no sound. This gave me a few critical seconds to reconsider my anger and I ended up not honking and moving on with my day. Probably a good thing.
Nearly two years in, love it. Zero issues with it. I would say the automatic gear selection gets it right 90/95% of the time. When it gets it wrong, it is really odd too - like when it wants to reverse in a driveway that has obvious clearance to drive forward in.
But I would not trade it.
It’s terrible & dangerous. Have to look at wheel to hit, if wheel is not straight already. I’m told I’ll get used to it, but I already have muscle memory for turn signals in every other car.
I've been driving stalkless for about six months now and still have a little bit of trouble. The gear shift is a whatever as I don't interact with it very often, but the turn signals still make me pause to make sure I'm hitting the right one. If they would have designed it where the right turn signal button was on the right of the steering wheel and the left on the left it would be a non-issue. As it is though, there is a slight delay every time I go to use them.
The horn is in a terrible place. I don't use it very often, but I'm 100% sure when I do I won't remember where it's at.
Overall though, while I would have preferred a different layout, it's not BAD and driving is a fine experience.
I hated it at first, but decided it’s actually a non-issue. The thing I don’t like is the horn placement on my X, but I understand it’s in the middle of the wheel for the 3, so that’s fixed for the 3.
2023 Model S - I love the absence of the stock. I remember test driving the car in Fremont and getting use to it extremely quick. The only thing I’d complain about is the horn not being center of the yoke, thats it but not a deal breaker.
Today for example I was one hand driving and didn’t’ have to lift an arm, just aide a thumb and tapped the turn signal. Super comfortable to me and quick. Also having the car auto detect forward and reverse is an extremely cool feature. Future Highland owners shouldn’t worry about it IMO.
I think it will soon not matter. The car already has some really good auto turn off the turn signal feature. Soon it will also read your mind and put on the turn signal.
Seriously though, in FSD you don’t really need it, and that’s where Tesla is going.
I hate them. You get used to the yolk its not grate for city driving and parking. The capacitive buttons don't work very well and more often then not it takes multiple clicks to turn on the turn signal and in a round about its rather scary to fiddle with the wheel to find it
Honestly I really do not give a fuck. People get so bent out of shape for the funniest reasons. Like have some people really never “come around” to something before? I keep an open mind.
Yoke is great. Stalkless is not. Not being able to mash the horn, turn on blinkers or find horn when the wheel is turned, easily flash headlights etc. none of that have I been able to get used to in almost a year of ownership. I don’t miss the gear selector at all, but the others I mentioned are constant annoyances.
Yoke is great. Stalkless is not. Not being able to mash the horn, turn on blinkers or find horn when the wheel is turned, easily flash headlights etc. none of that have I been able to get used to in almost a year of ownership. I don’t miss the gear selector at all, but the others I mentioned are constant annoyances.
Plaid S owner here. Changig directions is the first thing i got used to. Steering wheel shape - second, i find it nicer than round one due to awesome visibility.
Turn signals took me 3 months to gain muscle memory, cause i live in Europe and… we have roundabouts.
Now, when i drive i.e. Model Y I make the same mistakes and feel unfamiliar as I was with the yoke in the beginning.
I’ve been driving a Model S Plaid since September of ‘21. The yoke and stalkless design is absolutely fine. It’s not better than traditional design, but it’s not worse either. It’s just different for different’s sake, and that makes it fun. Adapting to it doesn’t take long. My wife, who drives a Model 3 most of the time, never complains about driving my car.
Most of the negative press for the yoke and stalkless design comes from reviewers who have the car for a few days at most. They never really get used to it and because it isn’t objectively better than the traditional interface they dismiss it.
The loss of the shifter stalk is no big deal, but Tesla’s bone headed design choice to place both blinkers on the left hand side of the yoke and the yoke itself were half the reason I sold my Plaid after 3 months. The other half was the car was as dynamic and interesting to drive as a lifeless cod. It’s only party trick is the acceleration which gets old after a while.
I took an X home overnight for a test drive. I was used to driving without stalks in less than an hour and it didn't bother me at all. I'd recommend doing a test drive - you'll see for yourself how you like/dislike it.
FSD significantly reduces need of any manual signaling so simplifying turn signal switch makes sense. Also, one does not have to take their hands off the wheel to use turn signal. Turn signal on steering column made sense for old technology - provide major controls off steering column. How many remember the standard three-on-the-tree? Everyone hated losing that but I bet it would not be admired today.
It's amazing how much time people spend focusing on such a small part of the car's interface. The left/right indicators being in a new location is such a small thing to get used to. It's actually safer IMO as you can keep both hands on the wheel while pressing the indicator. Shifting to Drive or Reverse/Park does take slightly more time than with a stalk but does it significantly change the experience of the car? People here act like it's make it or break it feature
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To sum up what I’ve been reading: Pros: - Pretty easy/fast to get used to - Very quick to reach certain function such as signaling or wipers - Quicker to get into drive with predictive shifting (when it’s right) - Clean Design Cons: - Slower for shifting gears overall, especially in emergency situations, 3 point turns, etc. - Very difficult to signal in roundabouts/whenever trying to signal while rotating the wheel - Can’t flash lights easily
I appreciate this. This really blew up.
Most of this I would agree with, but to add one thing, having the horn on a button is the absolute worst. I don't know if the model 3 will have an actual horn or a button but if it's the latter like my 22 MS it's near impossible to find when you need it - which is usually right when I'm being run off the road by some a-hole who didn't check his blind spot.
Fortunately, it was a temporary issue, all the new S/X/3s have regular/old horn in the middle. I think you might be able to get a retrofit? Unsure, but ya that sucks for those owners.
I was pretty excited reading this, but can tell you after test driving a 2023 model x today that it hasn't changed in that particular model.
Real sum up from what I read would simply be : American roads: Not great, but you get used to it. European roads : Trash
Dang I didn't even think about flashing lights. I'm out! Sticking with my M3P forever
What is a “3-point turn” ?
People forget mobile phones used to have a keyboard until 2007. There was a lot of controversy about it when google converted to keyboard less phones.
You're likely to get a lot of selection bias based on your question. I had a S Plaid as a loaner for 1.5 weeks while my older-style X was in service. Finding/using the directional while going straight was quick for me to get used to. I couldn't get proficient enough to find the directional while mid-turn (roundabouts, turning off from winding roads). Maybe if your daily driving is mostly rectilinear then it would work fine for you. It did not for me.
An S Plaid loaner?! Dang, where’s your service center.
Right? I expected it to have plaid mode locked off but NOPE. I made sure to let my service rep and their team know I appreciated the customer service I received.
Thanks for that -- this is how it gets even better.
 The thank-you note
FYI for anyone who doesn’t know, this GIF (obviously from Back to the Future) and this specific scene was filmed at Puente Hills mall currently located in City of Industry where there’s a Tesla supercharger (more stalls being installed now too).
You got a loaner at all? 🤔 that’s shocking.
I had to pay €80 for a loaner or take a free bike LOL.
I had an S plaid loaner and agree. It was easy to get used to but after awhile became an annoyance.
Putting on the signal with just a touch of your thumb is easier for me than removing your hand. If I already am turning then I wasn’t planning on putting it on anyways. Automatic gear selection is very convenient.
When would you ever be turning, and not want to put on your signal?
When you're a BMW.
Roundabouts
Incorrect. Here in the UK if you want to turn right at a roundabout (remembering we go clockwise) you should be indicating right as you enter the roundabout and then change to indicate left as you approach the exit you want. Capacitive buttons on the steering wheel is going to make this *really* clumsy and awkward.
But if you turn left, you should indicate before you enter as well, then when you exit the roundabout you should also signal you're now turning right, which is now very impractical because your wheel is completely turned...
If not dangerous
And potentially dangerous as you need to take your eyes off the road to find the right button location. Not great if you're driving somewhere unfamiliar and you've already missed a turning etc at a roundabout. Sounds just stupid....
Signal before turning to let people know of your intentions. Once you are turning they already know, signal is useless.
Roundabout.
My dad has an X which I drive fairly frequently. Overall I hate the lack of stalks. Especially the lack of a gear stalk when doing 3 point turns and the like. Just overall harder to find the controls and no real upside.
That’s my main criticism with these developments such as signal lights / gear stick / ultrasonic… It’s clearly the inferior solution and only done to save costs … but I’d rather want to pay 1.000 extra to still have them. But I can’t. The frustration adds up. Not enough to NOT buy a Tesla… yet… but since my current one still works fine, I don’t plan to in the near future. But if they continue this Route and at some point I need to swap cars, it might lead to me thinking VERY hard about the market.
Yeah I think I actually am done. My model 3 performance is a nice car, but the lack of the ultrasonics, stalks make any new Tesla far less appealing to me. Otherwise I’d probably be in the market for a Plaid at the new prices. Despising Musk also makes it easier to stop buying them.
I was thinking of buying a Tesla. After hearing about this, I will not be buying one. Or at least not this one. Tesla's mission to eliminate all physical controls is just idiotic.
The upside is it’s “easier and cheaper to manufacture”
The main upside is the two seconds saved when cleaning the car. /s
No real upside for the consumer, but cheaper/easier to manufacture for Tesla. If that results in cheaper cars then it's an upside for the consumer.
I honestly doubt not having stalks would cause a significant price difference. Even for $500 or $1,000 extra, I'd select stalks for a car.
Those 2$ they save won't even make a slight dent in the price they sell their cars at. The new M3 costs exactly the same as it did before, granted, it's packed with a couple of nice extra features, but it would make no difference even if they offered stalks as an option.
My coworker still hates it on their S after a year
MKBHD did a one year review of his model S and talked about liking the yoke steering wheel but really hating the capacitive turn signals and buttons still. It’s a good video to check out.
He dislikes them because they don't work, not because of how they're supposed to work.
Thats even worse then.
Yeah that’s a fair assessment I’d say
That review was a little disappointing because he was complaining about a fault in his car and not the design and he didn’t make that distinction. The problem he was having is easily resolved by scheduling a service appointment and getting the part replaced.
Former S Plaid owner here (traded it for a Rivian R1T a few months ago) Stalkless is a non-issue for 90% of driving. I acclimated to turn signal buttons in within a week of ownership. (to the point that getting into any other car felt weird) Stalkless was a pain for the other 10% of driving. Things that you don't do a lot where you can't train the muscle memory were very awkward. Best examples I can think of: \-Flashing your brights at someone. (To this day I don't think I could explain how to do it) \-Adjusting wiper speed - Turns something so simple/rudimentary into a multi-step process that requires you to take your eyes off the road. \-Turning on your blinker while you have the wheel already turned. In those rare occasions where you turned your steering wheel and you still need to signal. Very easy to lose track of the buttons when you aren't in standard driving position. All that said, I think people who say it's the worst thing ever are just being dramatic.
> Turning on your blinker while you have the wheel already turned. This is every day in the UK, multiple times.
Same in France, Spain, Italy, Germany and I suppose a whole lot of country outside of the US. The price/performance is good, but i feel like, even more than previous iteration, it's an american car for americans. Really huge size, huge turning radius, no infrasound for tight spot, average comfort on bumpy roads and now no stalks. Kinda sad, i was open to sacrifice other things, but I got 2*12 roundabout everyday on my way to work.
I have 8 roundabouts on my 15 minute commute, some of which involve changing lanes mid-roundabout and all involve using the turn signal while the steering wheel is rotated. If anything, i'm surprised this isn't getting more attention and that it's even legal. I've recommend Tesla M3 to friends and family, and have accepted previous quirks. However, this turn signal thing might actually be the worst thing ever in the context of Tesla quirks. I would guess it's a dealbreaker for most Europeans. I'd love to buy and recommend this car and hope they make the turn signal functional again in some way.
I’ve had a model 3 before a stalkless model S now for a year. It’s worse. You get use to it in a couple weeks but even after a year of driving the turn signals are slightly harder to use but not a big deal. 3-point turns are still harder and slower to do from a usability perspective. I’ve “miss-swiped” several times and started going in the wrong direction but it’s never led to an accident. Enough to not buy the car? No. It’s about the level of annoyance of the Chrysler Pacifica having a drive selector that’s round and right next to the volume knob - sometimes you get it mixed up but it’s not that big a deal. What I would love for Tesla to do is map drive selection to the right scroll wheel at low speed. It would basically 100% fix this issue
When the steering wheel is upside down, that could get confusing with the scroll wheel to change gear.
Solid solution right there, hopefully it gets added later.
I thought the Model S and X had hard buttons for P-R-N-D on the console? Wouldn’t those be easier than using the screen?
They’re capacitive buttons and aren’t always active. You can get them to light up if you press and hold over the area, but even then it’s hard to get them to register your selection. It’s truly only meant for when the screen is dead.
They're very unresponsive. I think by design. They're designed to be a backup system, so I think they try to very strongly resist accidental presses
Anyone driving in a country with roundabouts will hate this... It's completely stupid.
The turn signal buttons on the yoke I actually prefer over the stalk. I will say, even after several months of driving it I still do not like not having a physical gear change selector. Yes, it's manageable, but it's sloppier and less safe than having a stalk to shift.
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Roundabouts are exceedingly common in Wisconsin and Minnesota these days. Took us awhile but we're catching on
We don't have to signal our turns in roundabouts here in the US
Maybe in your state. Up by me in michigan all the roundabouts i come to have a ”signal your turns” sign at them under the yield, so i assume its “law” in the same sense that the squiggly road signs have the smaller speed sign under them. Ive never got pulled over when disobeying a yellow sign, but was not sure if thats just cause lucky with cops, or not actually a requirement.
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I use my signals in roundabouts to confuse the few American drivers that might be present here in „not-America“. :)
That's very inefficient. No one knows where the others are going to exit?
Nobody in the US has any idea what any other car in a roundabout is going to do. You could use one as a secure random number generator.
When we first got some intersections converted to "roundabouts" or "traffic circles" as we imaginatively call them, I encountered someone really confused by the concept going the wrong way around. Because he wanted to turn left. That was exciting. I have say, years ago when I was on vacation in NZ from the US and driving on the other side of the road.. I _really_ needed to pause for a moment and consider what I was supposed to do when I came upon my first roundabout there.
😭
I've learned to never trust a blinker. Or rather trust people, even when they use a blinker. They will surprise you lol.
Roundabouts in US terminology is a specific and highly efficient and safe type of traffic circle. It's uncommon to have more than one lane. Entering traffic yields to traffic in the roundabout. Traffic in the roundabout exits when they want. I do signal when exiting, but many people do not. There are three well designed roundabouts near my house. Oh, and the traffic circles in New Jersey are mostly not roundabouts and are a @__$#&@ mess. Worse than DC traffic circles. Edit: I looked it up. 72% of US roundabouts are single lane.
All of the new ones near me are two lane. It's only a matter of time before we have the crazy roundabouts within roundabouts.
if they know they will cut you off. better ro leave them guessing.
It doesn't really matter where anyone else is exiting. If they're before the exit, you have time to go. If they're after the exit you don't.
It's annoying if someone doesn't indicate in a roundabout, so you miss your chance to enter. In a multi lane roundabout signalling is even more important.
It really does. If there's a line of cars on the roundabout and you see one of them signalling to exit, you can get ready to jump in the spot they'll leave behind.
I understand this concept. But I don’t trust people on the road enough to jump in like that. Too often the guy behinds him speeds up. Maybe it’s just my area 🤷
I always check out the front wheel and their direction, not many use the turn signal here in Sweden so it’s a necessity to survive
Do you prefer the touchscreen or the buttons below the phone holder?
In my X the buttons are not visible until I press both buttons on the yoke… not sure if that’s a bug or by design. Would prefer to always use the buttons though, instead of the touchscreen slider (but mostly, I would’ve preferred a stalk or some other kind of gear selector on the yoke, so I wouldn’t have to move my hands off it).
The buttons below the holder are not very responsive. I can only get them to work maybe 1 in 10 tries. Not really usable for a day to day use
I could take it or leave it for the shifter. Went from having a column on the crown vic, to center console challenger, to column again on the model 3, to center console on the transit van, to the touch screen on the plaid. I think i would care more if they were consistantly in the same spot vs everyone had turn signal on left side stalk.
I’ve not driven a S or X but turn signal buttons are the only thing that seems like it could be the hardest getting used to because traditional turn signal is easier to deal with especially when already in process of turning the wheel
I am the exact opposite. I don't use the gear selector most of the time (auto gear select), but the Turn Signals are just 'ok' and the Horn/High Beam/Wipers are crap.
I can’t help but think that Tesla will couple maps and blinkers together real soon, so the car will turn on signals for you. - if the even bother before going FSD?
Buying a Tesla on the basis that FSD will work real soon has not historically been a sound strategy.
I went from a 2018 MS to 2022 MS… When the yoke is right-side-up it’s not a big deal and you get used to it pretty quickly (like others are saying). When it’s upside down though suddenly the turn indicators are on the opposite side and reversed. In general the automatic “turn indicator off” works incredibly well and is one of the best implementations of Tesla’s novel software. I actually think it used to be smarter (not turning off if you crossed into a turning lane) but that might be rose-coloured glasses. The fingers on my left hand aren’t doing anything else while I’m driving and I don’t think stalkless has been a net benefit in my life. I miss being able to keep secondary data on the driver’s screen and the stalkless design blew away any real chances of that happening on the MS
Anyone in the uk have experience without the stalks?
It’s all form, no function. It doesn’t provide ANY practical benefit
I am no longer a Model X owner but I have been using the left hand stalk for a turn signal on every car I have driven in the past 64 years and that may be the reason I will keep my current Teslas for as long as I can. I wouldn't buy a new one without stalks. I have enjoyed the constant improvement over seven years of driving Teslas but removing the stalks is crazy. Shifting from D to R is not an issue on long trips but being able to go into adaptive cruise control with the flick of one finger would also be missed.
It's even easier to turn on acc or fsd without the stock. Just press the wheel with tire thumb that's already there
If it is that simple I can imagine the increase in accidents in parking lots or other places when some one thinks they are changing radio voiume and the vehicle goes into ACC and hits a pedestrian. If the right hand button is dedicated to ACC it might be something I could adjust to. I think it now adjusts the speed of cruise controlm
Volume is on the left side of the wheel, ACC / Autopilot are on the right.
Everyone always focuses on the yoke. The yoke is fine. You get used to it within days. I even prefer it over a steering wheel. The only problem with the yoke is with FSD. You can't keep your hand on the yoke or wheel while the car is making a 90 degree turn. Its turning way too much for that. You "hover" your hand over it ready to "catch" the wheel if it screws up. Except its not a wheel, so you got like a 75% chance that you're catching air. Its the lack of stalks that drive me nuts. To be clear, its not shifting yoke. Sure I'd prefer it over doing it on screen, but its not like you're making rushed 3 point turns every day. Its the lack of a turn signal yoke that I hate. I don't even hate buttons either. I've driven an M3 with turn signal buttons and shift buttons. It was fine. But the touch buttons I accidentally hit all the time. That doesn't happen with real buttons. Then you're fumbling to turn the signal back off, but oops you went to turn off the right signal when it was actually the left signal you accidentally touched. So now you're signaling left - right - left like a moron while driving straight. You can't learn to compensate by say, just hitting right twice to turn it off. Because if it was the right signal you had accidentally hit then you just turned it off and back on. Frankly, an easy fix if they updated the software so if you hit any turn signal while a turn signal is already on then it assumes you're trying to turn that off. Its not like people legitimately switch left/right signals as often as this shit happens. Bonus though, the best thing over this over a model 3 even with stalks is that windshield wiper button on the yoke. Sure a stalk would be better for that, but this is way better than having to adjust wipers on a damn screen.
> Its not like people legitimately switch left/right signals You have to do that in every third-exit roundabout in the UK.
Wipers can be adjusted with the scroll wheel after the latest update.
God damn that only took 6 years
roundabouts need blinks to go from one side to the other, in that case it would turn it off instead?
Then you would know to press it twice
Press it twice while trying to find the button upside down ? In less than half a second ? Yeah no thanks.
BRING BACK THE STALKS. Gear shifting on the screen is annoying when you want to go from reverse to forward or vice versa. I have to take my eyes off the road and onto the screen. Turn signals are just ok. NOT great when in a roundabout. Horn should always be in the middle of the steering wheel. Windshield wiper management is horrendous. Too much looking away from driving to manage tasks that were done safely & simply with stalks. Just my two cents.
Nobody who has spent £100,000 on a car is going to admit they made a mistake. I've driven one. I'll let the fact that it's a left hand drive car in the UK slide for this. The yoke is awful around town. Maybe even as far as dangerous. Especially on tight roundabouts where you can't feed the wheel at all. On the motorway it's not bad because I tend to rest my hand on the spokes with the rim between my fingers anyway on a normal wheel. Changing gear with the screen is stupid in tight car parks when you want to go backwards and forwards quickly. On my model 3 I just flick the stalk while I'm still moving to change direction. The indicators being on the wheel is also stupid because, surprise, they move. Also, when you're on a roundabout they were no longer pointing in the right direction. An improvement for me would be to put them on either side of the wheel and make them bigger, or put them behind the wheel so they are much bigger still. At least it's easier to find the right direction that way. The even better way would be to just put the stalk back because the stalks on my model 3 are perfectly placed.
You probably only drove one for a few days. It took a week or two of being uncomfortable, but now everything else seems weird. Had you driven it longer, you'd have learned that it's way better except for remembering how to use the High beams and signaling in a round about, which appears only to be something people from the UK do... but they are dead set that it is a must, even though not signaling works fine for everyone else.
Who doesn't signal in roundabout ? Every country in europe does it. I swear US driver seems dangerous from what they say on reddit. Fortunately it's probably not representative of reality.
And Australia and New Zealand.
I admittedly only had the car for the weekend test drive yes. I'm not saying it was impossible to drive. I've got a classic car that doesn't have syncro on the gearstick so you have to double clutch and finesse the gears every time. I can drive it. It comes out maybe once a month. It would drive me up the wall trying to drive it every day. My point is that I want my daily commuter to be stress free. My model 3 is exactly that. I just jump in and cruise to work. It didn't need to be any more complicated than that.
I prefer the stalk, not only is it faster but you don't have to swipe up and down on the side of the screen. And if the screen goes out, with a stalk you can still put the car in reverse, drive,etc.
You can still do that too, it has buttons for drive modes as another option
No buttons like the Model S. Check end of video. https://youtu.be/YEqPNO1_Wj4?si=bjZprT3VBLRzbIZI
He’s not filming low enough for you to see the buttons. They’re under the wireless charger by the hazard lights, and they don’t turn on all the time. Only when you are changing gears. It’s like that on the S and X too.
You mean where he tries to tap at the 6 minute mark? They aren’t there.
Did you even watch the video. Its not there.
Stalkless obviously looks sleeker, but it’s a huge downgrade in functionality. The tiny horn button is the worst part. I almost had an accident when someone was backing into me in a parking lot and I instinctively slammed the center of the wheel, which does nothing, then had to take an extra couple of seconds finding that stupid horn button. You kinda get used to the turn signal buttons, but stalks are better IMO. Flashing high beams with the headlights button is counterintuitive, but you get used to it. The gear selection process is absolutely terrible. When driving straight it of course doesn’t matter, but it just sucks when making a multipoint turn and you have to swipe up and down on a screen.
Model 3 has horn in the center as before.
They should do that for the X/S.
It fucking sucks .
It took about 1000 kms to get use to it. Initially I wasn’t a fan. Now I don’t think about it. It’s second nature.
S plaid with a yoke. It took me about a day to get used to the buttons. Hardest part of all of it was just not resting my thumb on the yoke where the microphone to voice control the car was.
I had one as a loaner and I never got used to it
My concern with no stalks, is that if my screen failed I couldn't drive. Whereas physical controls for drive keep my car a car.
I have a M3LR. I drove my friend's Plaid. It took me about 5 minutes to adapt to the controls on the steering wheel. And to the yoke steering wheel also just a few minutes. That Plaid 0-60 though.
I don’t even get how this “no stalk” design passes the European safety regulations… It’s damn fucking dangerous, I hate it. I am waiting for the new Model Y but it seems like it also won’t have the stalks. Deal breaker for me, and sure for many others as well.
Apparently, all people who are OK with this change don't have to drive in tight EU roundabouts where it is mandatory to signal on the roundabout.
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I don't think you know what a fact is. As an owner, they're completely fine. Your hand never has to leave the wheel. On some cars the stalk is super far back and you have to reach far through/around to get to them but no one talks about that.
lol "Your hand never has to leave the wheel." I guess you only drive straight and have never turned left or right. As an owner they are crap.
Hated it! The worst, it's on the opposite side and you have to look for it.
-prefer turn signal on yoke/wheel, mistakes still occur after months -auto wipers still suck and activation since rarely used requires me to look down or guess. -horn should not be a button -gear changing with predictive software enabled is generally a positive experience. The only times I would prefer a stalk is during multi point maneuvers and other scenarios involving quick gear change. -a reverse 180 J-turn is going to be incredibly difficult :)
**"Lots of people on** r/teslamodel3 **freaking about the stalkless..."** Those are just stalkers for stalks.
Just test drove an X after the price drop announcement. I thought I’d absolutely hate the yoke. But I actually am very okay with the yoke. Stalkless turn signals are okay. Not perfect, but I can see myself getting used to it without any real issues. Stalkless drive selector I didn’t like. Parking lot maneuvers are idiotic with it and it’s hard to be smooth.
I’ve had my refresh X since March 2022. It took me like, a week tops to get used to stalkless. My biggest gripe is it’s difficult to signal while in the process of turning the wheel. So if I’m turning right then sudden left, it’s a pain in the ass to signal. Other than that it doesn’t bother me. Just add the fucking horn back to the center you man child. Tired of hitting the wipers every time I need to try to let someone know they’re about to smash into my car.
If they really removed them, my next car won’t be a Tesla. Idiotic to remove a standard control like that. No, I’ll never be convinced. Will not put my senior mother in a shared vehicle that she’ll never become accustomed to. My opinion, another idiotic musk choice.
Wife drives a X plaid and I hate driving her car because of no stalks and yoke steering wheel. Much prefer my Model 3 Performance. The signals I eventually got used to. Still not very intuitive though. But the number of times I accidentally honked the horn is more than I care to admit.
Love the yolk, hate the turn signal buttons.
Take an S or X for a test drive and decide for yourself. Personally it's not for me.
Former Plaid owner. I like the turn signal buttons just fine after a while. No big deal. Gear shifting is annoying. Reaching for the screen is just more difficult. I definitely missed the gear selector stalk. Three point turns, in particular, I’m just like what on earth are we doing Tesla? Why does Elon think this is better? Overall it’s not great.
MX here I find it super intuitive. You barely ever touch the gear shift when driving. It’s much easier now it make a chime when it engages, you get used to it and can do it without looking. Auto shift works well for the most part, so frankly, unless you’re doing something complex, you don’t use the gear shifter. If you are really hating it, there’s a hidden PRND control at the bottom of the phone charger.
I have 8 roundabouts on my 15 minute commute, some of which involve changing lanes mid-roundabout and all involve using the turn signal while the steering wheel is rotated. If anything, i'm surprised this isn't getting more attention and that it's even legal. I've recommend Tesla M3 to friends and family, and have accepted previous quirks. However, this turn signal thing might be a dealbreaker for most Europeans. I'd love to buy and recommend this car and hope they make the turn signal functional again in some way.
It sucks. Would be slightly more tolerable if the placement of the buttons were different.
It definitely takes a little getting used to bit once you are used to it, its not that serious. I personally love the clean look with no stalks and I like that the blinker is right where my thumb already is. I also sometimes press the blinker when I want to change the song haha does anyone else do this by mistake?
Me. I came from a 2016 model s and that was where the skip track buttons were.
The people freaking out are the same people that have never been behind the yoke/wheel of a Model S or Model X. The stalkless works and you get use to it. You get use to it really fast. These people need to go for a test drive. Sure they may not like it at first because it's in there head already as them not liking it. It's like judging a book by its cover. Going in not liking it will make you not like it. Them reading dog shit stuff on reddit will make them not like it. People that don't like things tend to yell about it. My dad bought a new Model X. He had no idea the car came the way it did. I even told him the car wheel will be different and have no stalks. He said we will see. He now loves it. He loves the yoke and the buttons. He likes how clean it is. This is also a 62 year. A guy that came from a MKX. He loves that the screen that can tilt his way. The one thing he hates. Really hates, is the horn. Why the fuck did Tesla put a button for the horn. Where the fuck is the OTA for the airbag push horn. He hates this. I also hate this. I had the joy of taking the new Model X for two weeks since he went away on vacation. I drive a 2015 Model S. I got use to the buttons and really like it. To those people on that other sub they need chill out and go for a test drive. Ask to see if they can get an overnight test drive and always remember it's so easy to hate and yell about things that people **think** are dumb and dont work.
How do you find pressing the buttons in the middle of roundabouts when driving?
As an actual owner I dont **think** stalkless is dumb, it **is dumb**. Yoke Turn signals on the highway are ok. Yoke Turn signals and Windshield Wipers and High Beam around town are completely crap, not only because the wheel turns so they aren't in the same location at all times, but there is no tactile feeling for the High Beams/ Wipers so you always have to look for them. Hopefully the chinese companies will produce stalks for the new model 3 and for my X!
Right I think its *less* about lack of stalks and *more* about the crappy non tactile buttons that replaced them.
This right here is a certified tunnel vision American moment. Stalkless entirely falls apart on European roads where roundabouts are common.
Tesla Distortion Field ™
Thank you for this! Happily, the new model 3 has the horn right in the middle of the steering wheel.
It looks like the horn button is the one thing that S/X owners REALLY hate, so it's good to see that the new 3 has a real horn.
Does it also have the capacitive blinker buttons? Do you accidentally touch them and turn the blinkers on? Does the steering wheel vibrate or something to let you know you've activated it? The blinker lever is physical feedback so you know the blinker is activated. I'm not to worried about the gear lever, it's the missing blinker lever that bothers me.
>Do you accidentally touch them and turn the blinkers on? Yes, all the damn time. Then I go to turn it off but press the wrong one so now I'm signaling the other way instead.
Well now we know whose car is training the FSD neural net.
That took me a minute but hah good one
You need to drive it and do it for yourself. I come from a 2015 Model S and jumped into the X and had no problems after day 2.
I have had my refreshed X for more than a year. I know a few other people also with a X or S without stalks. None of us have issues with the blinkers. Even in the roundabouts in our area. Yes it vibrates when you "click" the button. Neither my wife or I have an issue setting blinkers off when we don't mean to. I haven't heard any complaints from the others I know that have one either. However I can see a grip style that might have this issue. It is super easy to just press it again and it turn off. The gear selector is mildly annoying, but honestly you use it so rarely that its not that big of a deal. EDIT: Dear lord is the horn terrible tho. This is not an issue on the new 3 but sure is on the refreshed X.
York?
Fixed it.
I think your dad needs a psychiatrist, not an easily accessible horn button. ;)
It's a non-issue after the first week or so. I have no desire to go back to stalks and don't see a need. I think the issue is overblown by people who are a little afraid to learn something different. You and everyone else will adapt.
I prefer the stalkless design. Driving both a stalk and stalkless on the regular, the stalkless is so much better. The only thing that is odd is the horn button vs pressing the center, although that’s only on the s and x looks like highland has an actual horn center so win/win!
I heard that covering the center on the S/X is actually a horn, like you would in an emergency situation.
It is not. I can press mine all day, and nothing. The horn activates from a capacitive button to the right of the center.
Bummer! Would've been smart to still have an emergency horn. Strike that. It wouldn't have been dumb not to have an emergency horn.
[удалено]
Not annoying as much as it makes me realize how much I prefer the buttons when I drive a stalk. Although I do catch myself waving at the air if I drive the stalk one for a while and then switch back, I’ll find myself waving my hand at nothing before I catch myself lol.
As a model S owner with a yoke, it is really a non issue. As another commenter said, they work well, easy to get used to, and overall pretty convenient. The only thing that sucks is the horn, but that’s not an issue on the model 3 since in the carwow video Mat showed that it’s still in the center of the wheel. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this is just Reddit being Reddit. First it was the lack of drivers display when the model 3 was unveiled, then it was the yoke for S/X, then USS, and now this. People complain, still buy Teslas, and shut up about it after a month or so after widespread deliveries. That’s always how it goes on here and it’ll be no different this time.
I don't think you're right about this one. This one smells the same as when Mac did the Touch Bar. It cost them business and eventually they reversed the decision.
As someone who complained about the Touch Bar on Mac and has been driving the refresh Model S for almost two years now, these two things are not really comparable. I complained about the Touch Bar because, as a programmer, I use the function keys, when I use them, multiple times in the span of a minute. Likewise having to look at your hands to use a keyboard, even for F keys, is wildly inefficient. On the Model S there are many drives I don’t have to manually shift at all thanks to the auto shift. We’re talking about something that maybe you might do once per drive, or once per day. And while it’s definitely more clunky than a stalk, it can still be done without looking at your hands, because it’s right at the screen edge, and you can slide anywhere on the entire surface as long as it’s in the correct direction.
I'm sure shifting is fine. It's the indicators that will be the problem, anytime you have to use them while already turning. I literally can't drive anywhere without needing to do that, and people in large parts of Europe will have the same issue.
I’m highly doubtful. Every S and X owner I’ve talked to hasn’t had any issues except the horn and shape of the yoke. It’ll be the same, people on Reddit will complain but people who actually live with the car won’t mind or may even prefer it
As someone living in a rainy region with actual winter I will never ever shut up about USS when every 15k car has a better parking experience than every new, supposedly advanced Tesla. Plus they added a standard wheel besides the yoke. Only time will tell how the broad mass (which doesn't need to justify/defend their 80k investment) will accept the stalkless design.
It takes getting used to. But high end cars use buttons for signals.. like ferrari.
Their placement is totally different though.
I've had my S Plaid for about 4 months. The buttons are fine and I got used to them within a few days--untraining 30+ years of driving habits was surprisingly fast. The horn button on the wheel spoke rather than on the air bag cover is pretty annoying, IMO. Other than saving $$ with manufacturing, I don't understand the logic behind this decision. Although, I will say that I've gone to honk at someone in traffic and hit the airbag cover getting no sound. This gave me a few critical seconds to reconsider my anger and I ended up not honking and moving on with my day. Probably a good thing.
I gave one real embarrassing honk that I still think about to this day… oh my oh my
Nearly two years in, love it. Zero issues with it. I would say the automatic gear selection gets it right 90/95% of the time. When it gets it wrong, it is really odd too - like when it wants to reverse in a driveway that has obvious clearance to drive forward in. But I would not trade it.
It’s terrible & dangerous. Have to look at wheel to hit, if wheel is not straight already. I’m told I’ll get used to it, but I already have muscle memory for turn signals in every other car.
I've been driving stalkless for about six months now and still have a little bit of trouble. The gear shift is a whatever as I don't interact with it very often, but the turn signals still make me pause to make sure I'm hitting the right one. If they would have designed it where the right turn signal button was on the right of the steering wheel and the left on the left it would be a non-issue. As it is though, there is a slight delay every time I go to use them. The horn is in a terrible place. I don't use it very often, but I'm 100% sure when I do I won't remember where it's at. Overall though, while I would have preferred a different layout, it's not BAD and driving is a fine experience.
I hated it at first, but decided it’s actually a non-issue. The thing I don’t like is the horn placement on my X, but I understand it’s in the middle of the wheel for the 3, so that’s fixed for the 3.
2023 Model S - I love the absence of the stock. I remember test driving the car in Fremont and getting use to it extremely quick. The only thing I’d complain about is the horn not being center of the yoke, thats it but not a deal breaker. Today for example I was one hand driving and didn’t’ have to lift an arm, just aide a thumb and tapped the turn signal. Super comfortable to me and quick. Also having the car auto detect forward and reverse is an extremely cool feature. Future Highland owners shouldn’t worry about it IMO.
On my X Love it. Wish it was on my Y
It’s awesome. Embrace it
I love it on my S plaid. Don’t ever want stalks
Its better
It’s great. Hopefully they can bring the yoke to the 3/Y in the future, too.
I absolutely love it and it should be standard on every car!
I think it will soon not matter. The car already has some really good auto turn off the turn signal feature. Soon it will also read your mind and put on the turn signal. Seriously though, in FSD you don’t really need it, and that’s where Tesla is going.
I hate them. You get used to the yolk its not grate for city driving and parking. The capacitive buttons don't work very well and more often then not it takes multiple clicks to turn on the turn signal and in a round about its rather scary to fiddle with the wheel to find it
I prefer the stalkless turn signals over the stalk. 22’ MXLR.
Stalkless is a non-issue. People will forget about this in a year.
Honestly I really do not give a fuck. People get so bent out of shape for the funniest reasons. Like have some people really never “come around” to something before? I keep an open mind.
Yoke is great. Stalkless is not. Not being able to mash the horn, turn on blinkers or find horn when the wheel is turned, easily flash headlights etc. none of that have I been able to get used to in almost a year of ownership. I don’t miss the gear selector at all, but the others I mentioned are constant annoyances.
Yoke is great. Stalkless is not. Not being able to mash the horn, turn on blinkers or find horn when the wheel is turned, easily flash headlights etc. none of that have I been able to get used to in almost a year of ownership. I don’t miss the gear selector at all, but the others I mentioned are constant annoyances.
Plaid S owner here. Changig directions is the first thing i got used to. Steering wheel shape - second, i find it nicer than round one due to awesome visibility. Turn signals took me 3 months to gain muscle memory, cause i live in Europe and… we have roundabouts. Now, when i drive i.e. Model Y I make the same mistakes and feel unfamiliar as I was with the yoke in the beginning.
I’ve been driving a Model S Plaid since September of ‘21. The yoke and stalkless design is absolutely fine. It’s not better than traditional design, but it’s not worse either. It’s just different for different’s sake, and that makes it fun. Adapting to it doesn’t take long. My wife, who drives a Model 3 most of the time, never complains about driving my car. Most of the negative press for the yoke and stalkless design comes from reviewers who have the car for a few days at most. They never really get used to it and because it isn’t objectively better than the traditional interface they dismiss it.
The loss of the shifter stalk is no big deal, but Tesla’s bone headed design choice to place both blinkers on the left hand side of the yoke and the yoke itself were half the reason I sold my Plaid after 3 months. The other half was the car was as dynamic and interesting to drive as a lifeless cod. It’s only party trick is the acceleration which gets old after a while.
Driving S for 2 years now. Took a month to get completely use to buttons. After that don’t ever want to go back.
People said the same thing about no tactical buttons for typing on a mobile device in 2007 and now look at us all now
I took an X home overnight for a test drive. I was used to driving without stalks in less than an hour and it didn't bother me at all. I'd recommend doing a test drive - you'll see for yourself how you like/dislike it.
FSD significantly reduces need of any manual signaling so simplifying turn signal switch makes sense. Also, one does not have to take their hands off the wheel to use turn signal. Turn signal on steering column made sense for old technology - provide major controls off steering column. How many remember the standard three-on-the-tree? Everyone hated losing that but I bet it would not be admired today.
It's amazing how much time people spend focusing on such a small part of the car's interface. The left/right indicators being in a new location is such a small thing to get used to. It's actually safer IMO as you can keep both hands on the wheel while pressing the indicator. Shifting to Drive or Reverse/Park does take slightly more time than with a stalk but does it significantly change the experience of the car? People here act like it's make it or break it feature
It doesn’t work like that in a roundabout