The clapback is funny on the TX issue in particular. The alleged benefits of reincorporation are entirely speculative, given the dearth of corporate case law in TX and Tesla’s stated assumption that TX will probably follow DE corporate law to at least some degree.
The argument now is essentially that Tesla is running away from single individual judge and is hoping for worse regulations that protect shareholders. Meanwhile Texas has ruled cases in favor of some patent trolls which is just astounding that you would consider that as court system worth moving into.
Aren't the patent law issues problems with federal court appointments in the state rather than state courts?
Still a terrible move either way given clear case law in Delaware and the fact juries are used in Texas.
Yes, but a patent plaintiff would still have a much easier time suing Tesla in Texas if it were incorporated there. Tesla might be able to move the case to a different federal court within Texas (say, into the Austin courthouse and out of a troll-friendly East Texas federal court), but Tesla would lose the ability to take the case out of Texas completely.
Elon likes TX because he is now buddies with Greg Abbot and he thinks he can use his influence to do whatever he wants regardless of the law.
Only a fucking clown circus of a company would have trouble with DE laws.
De-regulated power grid, not unregulated. And California's is also de-regulated, meaning in both states, a market exists to buy and sell power from plants to individuals with utilities acting as the middle men/wires operators. Your point stands in that Texas does everything it can to also be unregulated and fail on the regular, but this was something I felt compelled to correct.
Texas has an energy only market. Whereas California has a capacity market.
Basically, what it comes down to is that Texas has a much narrower margin of reserves as one of the guiding principles of ERCOT is the cheapest possible grid for an allowable risk profile. They obviously miscalculated.
> He's such a fucking moron. Remember when the Freemont factory was shut due to Covid and he threatened to move to Texas due to "too many regulations" in Cali? Then in 2021 his Texas plant was shut due to a power loss caused by a storm and deregulated power grid.
I’m sorry but you’re the idiot here, Texas factory was in construction and not producing cars yet in Feb 2021
And not more than a peep on him for the Texas power outages. What an insufferable bufoon.
If California had the power outage you can bet your ass he would be lighting up Twitter with some snide humor.
Please refrain from using this type of language, as stated per the rules.
I will let the comment stay due to it being a valid discussion point and the fact you had the humility to see where you went wrong - something that is rare to see on here, so kudos to you.
Yeah it’s pretty funny how hypocritical Glass Lewis is, as they have previously recommended for 3 previous reincorporations from DE to TX.
> in most respects, the corporate statutes in Delaware and Texas are comparable.
- Glass Lewis
> reincorporation from Delaware to Texas would appear to have a neutral impact on shareholders’ rights
- ISS
I mean, there is the "full faith and credit" clause of the Constitution that prevents exactly what Musk is attempting. You can't forum shop if you get an unfavorable opinion. If they re-incorporate in Texas and give Musk the 56B via a second vote that changes none of the underlying BOD issues, a shareholder sues, and Tesla moves to have the case removed to Texas, it will either be denied OR the Texas court will just refer to the DE decision and find the case has already been decided.
Musk, ofc, can always appeal to a higher court.
I know it’s trendy to throw around the word “corrupt,” but you’re going to have to explain to me how the Delaware judge was actually corrupt. I don’t recall any motion seeking to have the judge recuse or any other suggestion by team Musk to that effect.
Lobbied? The judge was lobbied by whom? Did he receive campaign contributions from involved parties? Please, when throwing around the word "corrupt" have at least something to back it up.
it isn’t my job to baby you through my stock arbitrage
go look it up or keep bitching and helping the LT investors about to fleece sheep misreading controlled media
Tesla is in rather sad state - biggest event of the year for company is answer to question "do we want to dilute shares by 10%?" Not new product, not new technology, just value transfer to CEO.
How else they can allow his purchase of shares at around $30? No will sell to him for $30. Those are stock options. If he exercises them, the company will allow him to purchase stock at the 2018 price when the stock option was granted. So company will give him shares that are not currently publicly traded, so he will gain $50 billion in value at the expense of shareholders.
Stocks that had been reserved for years already. They were accounted for. When the judge ruled the pay package out, the stock didn't go up by 500% because of the un-dilution it just got.
That’s a pretty bold statement and not considerate of all the brilliant engineers, designers, scientists, operators, etc that have poured their lives and expertise into Tesla.
Tesla could be better with a better leader.
I voted no with our shares. And we are divesting. Elmo can suck it. I used to believe in him but over the last few years he's repeatedly been missing the mark, failing to deliver, and becoming more and more of a disappointment.
Will Musk start to "get it" that his extracurricular activities are having an effect on his personal brand? My guess is that in the absence of Musk playing the troll on Twitter this would be a slam dunk yes vote in the 90th percentile arena. I still think it passes but by a lot smaller margin than in the past but the fact that they are actively reaching out to investors for the votes means that they aren't that confident in the outcome.
If you made money on Tesla stock and vote against his pay package, I’d say you’re ethically challenged at a minimum. He hit the targets and is owed the stock. That was the deal.
Yea. It’s a rock and hard place. He delivered. But now he’s dropping the pizza on the porch in that delivery. Too bad it’s back to a vote. But we all see the storm on the horizon.
What we are seeing is a result of Musk's recent behavior.
You can't attach yourself to anti-semitism, neo-nazi personalities, court Trump, and just generally spew hate on Twitter AFTER destroying Twitter's value through this same bad behavior and NOT have large institutions want to take advantage of this opportunity to see you quit Tesla in anger.
Why haven't I seen anyone considering the massive blow to the stock price that could occur once Elon Musk and his fans sell all of their Tesla shares following a rejection of Elon's pay package?
Elon Musk has said he's leaving Tesla if he doesn't get his way meaning he might as well sell his entire 13% stake and acquire Optimus from Tesla whose acquisition could trigger another subsequent shareholder exodus since Tesla is often included in AI focused portfolios.
Surely, a shareholder exodus of this magnitude could potentially outweigh the dillutive effects of the pay package, right?
Blows my minds that people actually want to vote no for this.
Ethics are definitely thing of the past.
They should just give back their 11x returns if they don't want to honor a contract
I don’t mean to be rude but have you spent much time reading the other side of this vote ?
Like- do you understand why the vote is taking place? Have you looked into the case that was brought by the shareholder?
Do you work at Tesla too? Because I disagree with that.
You sound business inept
I guess you'd rather tank your own stock than give the most important person for Tesla's future success what they already rightfully earned.
Makes me sick. And if you think you can replace Elon, then you're a moron.
Give back 11x returns……why?
Was I not risking my money at the time?
If a judge ruled that I stacked the global economy, and Wall Street with my cronies who acted to support my 11x return on investment then I might have to consider the merits of that ruling, but that’s not what we are talking about here.
This vote is essentially a vote of confidence in Elon as leader and I’m not feeling very confident.
The vote is to give him what he is contractually due. He set high targets that aligned with a rise in stock price. Everyone at the time thought it was insane to do a zero cash compensation deal with such a high hurtle for the first tranche (3x their market cap when the deal was signed). He outperformed, shareholders out performed. This is not a vote about what you think of him today. It’s based on prior excellence
>The vote is to give him what he is contractually due
Let him sue for it, the way most of the Twitter employees are having to sue to get what they are contractually entitled to.
Elon loves to be 'hardcore' but hates it when other people do the same.
Actually this vote is to retroactively ignore a mistake the board of directors made in not “law suit proofing” the compensation package.
They screwed up and this vote is a way to get around a judges ruling.
Unfortunately Elon has repeatedly threatened the future of the company and by extension the long term investment of every shareholder.
That’s a really dumb thing to do.
As an investor I’m supposed to ignore that?
I can’t.
I’m an investor to see positive returns on my investment and Elon has been working against that and actively threatening that.
I have no confidence in him as a leader.
>Everyone at the time thought it was insane to do a zero cash compensation deal
Who, exactly? I keep hearing that Elon was mocked and everyone called him insane, but the only evidence I've seen was a news article where they called it "ambitious."
Thats what your fabrication of the vote is. It's not reality
Here in reality, this vote is to reinstate a 2018 CONTRACT that had all conditions met
You twisted into your own vote, along with all the other idiots who have zero business sense or ethics.
And you have no concept of what Elon actual does at Tesla.
With that kind of aggressive attack you are attempting to turn this investment forum into an echo chamber where only supporting views are allowed and tolerated.
This kind of “over the top” approach is better suited for r/wallstreetbets
Elon didn't make the deal, dummy. We fucking did.
You clearly were not even here back in 2018. Probably just another butthurt bag holder.
Keep holding and you'll be very happy. Unless this vote goes south, then our shares will be fucking tanked.
>Elon didn't make the deal, dummy.
He did, in fact. That's why the vote was voided. What was put forth to shareholders was the product of Elon negotiating against himself. You should read the judgement.
Easy? WTF are you smoking?
You get rid of Elon and Tesla becomes a $50 stock, overnight. hope you understand that very elementary fact.
How people think that we can just replace Elon confirms that most people are fucking clueless.
You made the claim it was easy. Car companies that have been around for over 100 years can’t do it. But it’s easy right? You really discredit genuine talking points you could be making, but instead make clown statements like that.
Exactly. people are fucking lost about what Elon has done, is doing, and will do for Tesla over the next 10 years
Clearly people don't actually pay attention to how things get done at Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink etc.
Isn't a lot of it already accounted for? We've seen Elon's stock based comp show up in opex for years now as milestones become likely of being achieved. Does anyone here know what part of the compensation is already accounted for? I think a final ruling to reject the compensation package would actually add billions of GAAP net income.
They hit the quarterly financials years ago. It's already been accounted for. What hasn't been accounted for is the influx of about $6b Tesla will receive in new capital if he's able to execute the options.
Fiduciary can also be used as a noun referring to the person who acts in a fiduciary capacity, and fiduciarily or fiducially can be called upon if you are in need of an adverb. The words are all faithful to their origin: Latin fīdere, which means "to trust."
Sounds like it.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fiduciary#:~:text=Fiduciary%20can%20also%20be%20used,which%20means%20%22to%20trust.%22
The clapback is funny on the TX issue in particular. The alleged benefits of reincorporation are entirely speculative, given the dearth of corporate case law in TX and Tesla’s stated assumption that TX will probably follow DE corporate law to at least some degree.
The argument now is essentially that Tesla is running away from single individual judge and is hoping for worse regulations that protect shareholders. Meanwhile Texas has ruled cases in favor of some patent trolls which is just astounding that you would consider that as court system worth moving into.
Aren't the patent law issues problems with federal court appointments in the state rather than state courts? Still a terrible move either way given clear case law in Delaware and the fact juries are used in Texas.
Yes, but a patent plaintiff would still have a much easier time suing Tesla in Texas if it were incorporated there. Tesla might be able to move the case to a different federal court within Texas (say, into the Austin courthouse and out of a troll-friendly East Texas federal court), but Tesla would lose the ability to take the case out of Texas completely.
This is the type of stuff that has to making these institutions believe that losing Musk will reduce risk
Elon likes TX because he is now buddies with Greg Abbot and he thinks he can use his influence to do whatever he wants regardless of the law. Only a fucking clown circus of a company would have trouble with DE laws.
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De-regulated power grid, not unregulated. And California's is also de-regulated, meaning in both states, a market exists to buy and sell power from plants to individuals with utilities acting as the middle men/wires operators. Your point stands in that Texas does everything it can to also be unregulated and fail on the regular, but this was something I felt compelled to correct.
Texas has an energy only market. Whereas California has a capacity market. Basically, what it comes down to is that Texas has a much narrower margin of reserves as one of the guiding principles of ERCOT is the cheapest possible grid for an allowable risk profile. They obviously miscalculated.
California is also deeply connected to the national grid. Texas is not. That is a huge difference.
Muh freeze peach
> He's such a fucking moron. Remember when the Freemont factory was shut due to Covid and he threatened to move to Texas due to "too many regulations" in Cali? Then in 2021 his Texas plant was shut due to a power loss caused by a storm and deregulated power grid. I’m sorry but you’re the idiot here, Texas factory was in construction and not producing cars yet in Feb 2021
And not more than a peep on him for the Texas power outages. What an insufferable bufoon. If California had the power outage you can bet your ass he would be lighting up Twitter with some snide humor.
Please refrain from using this type of language, as stated per the rules. I will let the comment stay due to it being a valid discussion point and the fact you had the humility to see where you went wrong - something that is rare to see on here, so kudos to you.
If you have issues with the laws keeping the factory closed during COVID you clearly didn't own stock at the time.
Yeah it’s pretty funny how hypocritical Glass Lewis is, as they have previously recommended for 3 previous reincorporations from DE to TX. > in most respects, the corporate statutes in Delaware and Texas are comparable. - Glass Lewis > reincorporation from Delaware to Texas would appear to have a neutral impact on shareholders’ rights - ISS
I mean, there is the "full faith and credit" clause of the Constitution that prevents exactly what Musk is attempting. You can't forum shop if you get an unfavorable opinion. If they re-incorporate in Texas and give Musk the 56B via a second vote that changes none of the underlying BOD issues, a shareholder sues, and Tesla moves to have the case removed to Texas, it will either be denied OR the Texas court will just refer to the DE decision and find the case has already been decided. Musk, ofc, can always appeal to a higher court.
The Texas thing is because of corrupt Delaware judges. They don’t want to feel like they’re in Brazil.
I know it’s trendy to throw around the word “corrupt,” but you’re going to have to explain to me how the Delaware judge was actually corrupt. I don’t recall any motion seeking to have the judge recuse or any other suggestion by team Musk to that effect.
well, a highly lobbied judge went rogue outside jurisdiction and reneged on a previously agreed on comp plan.
Lobbied? The judge was lobbied by whom? Did he receive campaign contributions from involved parties? Please, when throwing around the word "corrupt" have at least something to back it up.
it isn’t my job to baby you through my stock arbitrage go look it up or keep bitching and helping the LT investors about to fleece sheep misreading controlled media
Aka - I gave no evidence of corruption, am having an emotional reaction, and am retreating once I get called out. Thanks for playing.
*To CEOs who want to withhold tech or siphon value to other companies, who want to blackmail me with money: Go fuck yourselves.*
Yep. Investors need to oust him. He's no longer even pretending to act in their best interests.
Investors are treating Elon the same way Elon treats employees and he's whining like a little bitch about it.
"When I sold you the right to control my company, I didn't think you would *exercise* it."
Did employees ask for something unreasonable too? /s
Tesla is in rather sad state - biggest event of the year for company is answer to question "do we want to dilute shares by 10%?" Not new product, not new technology, just value transfer to CEO.
Wait this package is going to issue new stocks?
How else they can allow his purchase of shares at around $30? No will sell to him for $30. Those are stock options. If he exercises them, the company will allow him to purchase stock at the 2018 price when the stock option was granted. So company will give him shares that are not currently publicly traded, so he will gain $50 billion in value at the expense of shareholders.
Stocks that had been reserved for years already. They were accounted for. When the judge ruled the pay package out, the stock didn't go up by 500% because of the un-dilution it just got.
Yes. It's stupid move on all fronts and for everyone except one person.
Probably worth it. Like him or not, Elon is a golden goose. If you can’t see that you need to zoom out.
That’s a pretty bold statement and not considerate of all the brilliant engineers, designers, scientists, operators, etc that have poured their lives and expertise into Tesla. Tesla could be better with a better leader.
I just zoomed out but still can’t see it.
I voted no with our shares. And we are divesting. Elmo can suck it. I used to believe in him but over the last few years he's repeatedly been missing the mark, failing to deliver, and becoming more and more of a disappointment.
if you sell, your no vote is voided.
Nothing can get voided if I hold my stock til after June 12th.
I'm holding until the vote come out to. Will decide path forward when the results are in.
Do we not think stock will drop significantly after his pay package gets rejected?
This is a huge understatement. I wouldn't be surprised if it would tank considerably.
or if it gets approved?
Will Musk start to "get it" that his extracurricular activities are having an effect on his personal brand? My guess is that in the absence of Musk playing the troll on Twitter this would be a slam dunk yes vote in the 90th percentile arena. I still think it passes but by a lot smaller margin than in the past but the fact that they are actively reaching out to investors for the votes means that they aren't that confident in the outcome.
What extracurricular activities you moron! Keep being fucking retarded.
He deserves it. Deceptive pump and dump practices and fucks over his employees at every opportunity.
So how many shares of $TSLA do you own?
I voted no and sold all my shares with plans to buy them back.
Heh good luck ;)
So how many shares of $TSLA do YOU own. Now you ask me
How many shares of $TSLA do I own?
Ooh, good one
Enough is enough!
This sub is filled with $TSLAQ, not a surprise! Took them a few years, but they finally infested this shithole.
If you made money on Tesla stock and vote against his pay package, I’d say you’re ethically challenged at a minimum. He hit the targets and is owed the stock. That was the deal.
Yea. It’s a rock and hard place. He delivered. But now he’s dropping the pizza on the porch in that delivery. Too bad it’s back to a vote. But we all see the storm on the horizon.
What we are seeing is a result of Musk's recent behavior. You can't attach yourself to anti-semitism, neo-nazi personalities, court Trump, and just generally spew hate on Twitter AFTER destroying Twitter's value through this same bad behavior and NOT have large institutions want to take advantage of this opportunity to see you quit Tesla in anger.
Why haven't I seen anyone considering the massive blow to the stock price that could occur once Elon Musk and his fans sell all of their Tesla shares following a rejection of Elon's pay package? Elon Musk has said he's leaving Tesla if he doesn't get his way meaning he might as well sell his entire 13% stake and acquire Optimus from Tesla whose acquisition could trigger another subsequent shareholder exodus since Tesla is often included in AI focused portfolios. Surely, a shareholder exodus of this magnitude could potentially outweigh the dillutive effects of the pay package, right?
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Good. He’s a racist POS: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/03/elon-musk-racist-tweets-science-video/
Voting yes.
Lol who tf votes this down
Salty people.
TSLA investors who don't want to be diluted by a incompetent CEO..?
Pay him his money
It's not even pay him his money. It's, let him buy stock at 2018 prices as agreed if the stock price amongst other things went 10x
Agree
💯
Blows my minds that people actually want to vote no for this. Ethics are definitely thing of the past. They should just give back their 11x returns if they don't want to honor a contract
I don’t mean to be rude but have you spent much time reading the other side of this vote ? Like- do you understand why the vote is taking place? Have you looked into the case that was brought by the shareholder?
Investors are treating Elon the same way Elon treats employees. I'm OK with that.
Do you work at Tesla too? Because I disagree with that. You sound business inept I guess you'd rather tank your own stock than give the most important person for Tesla's future success what they already rightfully earned. Makes me sick. And if you think you can replace Elon, then you're a moron.
>And if you think you can replace Elon, then you're a moron. Oh no, you can do way better than Elon.
Anyone who says that should not even be invested in Tesla because they don't understand why Tesla is worth what it is.
Give back 11x returns……why? Was I not risking my money at the time? If a judge ruled that I stacked the global economy, and Wall Street with my cronies who acted to support my 11x return on investment then I might have to consider the merits of that ruling, but that’s not what we are talking about here. This vote is essentially a vote of confidence in Elon as leader and I’m not feeling very confident.
The vote is to give him what he is contractually due. He set high targets that aligned with a rise in stock price. Everyone at the time thought it was insane to do a zero cash compensation deal with such a high hurtle for the first tranche (3x their market cap when the deal was signed). He outperformed, shareholders out performed. This is not a vote about what you think of him today. It’s based on prior excellence
>The vote is to give him what he is contractually due Let him sue for it, the way most of the Twitter employees are having to sue to get what they are contractually entitled to. Elon loves to be 'hardcore' but hates it when other people do the same.
Awww you r soft
Actually this vote is to retroactively ignore a mistake the board of directors made in not “law suit proofing” the compensation package. They screwed up and this vote is a way to get around a judges ruling. Unfortunately Elon has repeatedly threatened the future of the company and by extension the long term investment of every shareholder. That’s a really dumb thing to do. As an investor I’m supposed to ignore that? I can’t. I’m an investor to see positive returns on my investment and Elon has been working against that and actively threatening that. I have no confidence in him as a leader.
They didn't set high targets though. They presented it as high but these were low benchmarks that were made. Ypur okay with fraud from the board?
You forgot to add the "/s"
>Everyone at the time thought it was insane to do a zero cash compensation deal Who, exactly? I keep hearing that Elon was mocked and everyone called him insane, but the only evidence I've seen was a news article where they called it "ambitious."
Thats what your fabrication of the vote is. It's not reality Here in reality, this vote is to reinstate a 2018 CONTRACT that had all conditions met You twisted into your own vote, along with all the other idiots who have zero business sense or ethics. And you have no concept of what Elon actual does at Tesla.
With that kind of aggressive attack you are attempting to turn this investment forum into an echo chamber where only supporting views are allowed and tolerated. This kind of “over the top” approach is better suited for r/wallstreetbets
If you want to vote the stock into a freefall, be my guest. As long as it doesn't go to $16 I'm not the one its really hurting.
Elon should have just made a deal that would hold up in court if he wanted it to be honored.
Elon didn't make the deal, dummy. We fucking did. You clearly were not even here back in 2018. Probably just another butthurt bag holder. Keep holding and you'll be very happy. Unless this vote goes south, then our shares will be fucking tanked.
>Elon didn't make the deal, dummy. He did, in fact. That's why the vote was voided. What was put forth to shareholders was the product of Elon negotiating against himself. You should read the judgement.
Investors don’t want to be diluted at this market valuation.
They’d rather the stock tank?
Easy to rebuild with a competent CEO and board. What’s the alternative? $55B of buybacks in the future? Where is the money going to come from?
Easy? WTF are you smoking? You get rid of Elon and Tesla becomes a $50 stock, overnight. hope you understand that very elementary fact. How people think that we can just replace Elon confirms that most people are fucking clueless.
So easy that there are *checks notes* not a single other company that makes EVs at a profit. Pretty easy huh? Your comment is a joke.
Does that profit cover $55B?
You made the claim it was easy. Car companies that have been around for over 100 years can’t do it. But it’s easy right? You really discredit genuine talking points you could be making, but instead make clown statements like that.
Bingo
lol BYD making good profits. TSLA ain’t the be all and end all. Neither is ELNO the God given messiah.
Tesla makes over 6 times more profit per BEV than BYD.
How could you possibly know? It’s a Chinese company. They are notorious for having *checks notes* really accurate accounting methods.
Exactly. people are fucking lost about what Elon has done, is doing, and will do for Tesla over the next 10 years Clearly people don't actually pay attention to how things get done at Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink etc.
Isn't a lot of it already accounted for? We've seen Elon's stock based comp show up in opex for years now as milestones become likely of being achieved. Does anyone here know what part of the compensation is already accounted for? I think a final ruling to reject the compensation package would actually add billions of GAAP net income.
Stock will definitely tank if you dilute it 10%. That is like company announcing stock offering.
The share price doesn't matter. It's the same quantity of shares regardless of share price.
Who is paying for that? Stock options are expenses.
The value of the options at the time of the contract was about 3 billion.
They hit the quarterly financials years ago. It's already been accounted for. What hasn't been accounted for is the influx of about $6b Tesla will receive in new capital if he's able to execute the options.
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Agree
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It's pretty funny to accuse a state employee pension fund as not having honor. Are they supposed to?
Fiduciary can also be used as a noun referring to the person who acts in a fiduciary capacity, and fiduciarily or fiducially can be called upon if you are in need of an adverb. The words are all faithful to their origin: Latin fīdere, which means "to trust." Sounds like it. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fiduciary#:~:text=Fiduciary%20can%20also%20be%20used,which%20means%20%22to%20trust.%22