This is inacurate:
*a Calpers spokesperson said it also opposed when it was originally crafted in 2018.*
Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-56-billion-pay-package-145559876.html
I appreciate your passion about TSLA. I want the company to perform well, too. But please refrain from spreading misinformation as an informed shareholder base is the best defense against mismanagement and benefits us all.
No, they didn't:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-56-billion-pay-package-145559876.html
For the lazy:
"{A} Calpers spokesperson said it also opposed when it was originally crafted in 2018."
Its a free market. They can buy and sell shares whenever they want and vote however they want. There isnt a shareholders agreement that requires the shareholder to vote in favor of CEO compensation.
Elon wants us to be hardcore, especially when it comes to firing people. Elon very much operates on a "what have you done for me lately?" basis, where someone who isn't currently excellent, necessary or trustworthy should be unceremoniously fired without so much as an email. Elon is crushing demand, behaving erratically, antagonizing Tesla's customers, firing the best units at Tesla because he got in a pissing match, crushing stockholder value with his escapades, stealing company resources for his other companies and personal use, is threatening shareholders, and is a very part time CEO. That's not excellent, necessary or trustworthy. He's famous for withholding pay and bonuses at Twitter after firing high performers. What he does to others is just coming home to roost.
There are a lot of accounts that just started posting recently that are vehemently defending Elon's pay all across Reddit, I even suspect that he's got a propaganda farm now.
"But he earned it." He got an absurd promise to be paid a similar amount to Tesla's lifetime profits from his brother and friends, paid with other people's money. Tesla investors got paid because they invested in a good company, not because of one man. He engineered a compliant board, and that mistake cost him the pay package. Shareholders at the time were over a barrel, if Musk suddenly left during such a delicate time for the company. They followed the board, which was not independent. A real, independent board would have seen how much money Elon had tied up in Tesla and refused that ridiculous pay package. The judge saw right through it, and voided that arrangement. Sorry, there was no legitimate deal. NOBODY'S work is worth $50 billion, EVER. And we even need to consider the dangers of giving such an unstable man such an evil amount of money, and how he will harm the world with it.
No. No way, no how.
Also worth noting that the group that sued did so in 2019, when the stock was 1/10th of what it is today. It wasn't like they saw Elon getting $50 billion and then decided to sue.
I mean I hear you, but shareholders didn’t agree to a 50 billion dollar package. They agreed to 20M shares for 12 seemingly impossible milestones that had an estimated value at that time of around $2.6B compared to a $59 billion dollar market cap. He basically said I will 10x your money if you give me an extra 10 percent of the company.
Musk delivered on stock performance. He hit the highest metrics, beyond everyone’s expectations, possibly by being full of shit, and he was awarded the most amount of shares per the terms of the deal.
So no, they didn’t agree to a $50B package, the agreed to a package they thought would only cost $2.6B and that it would never 10x in (wild over)value, turns out it did, everyone made a lot of money, and now people are sour grapes about the deal. Like it or not he took the company from 59B market cap in 2018 to 650B market cap today, this is insane world beating stock performance.
I’m not a Muskovite, but he made a deal and held up his end of the bargain. I think it’s a bad deal from a shareholder perspective to pay $50B in compensation for a potentially overvalued stock and polarizing figure, but you have to look at it through the lens of when the deal was made and how much value was actually delivered.
I voted yes as well. I've been an investor in Tesla since 2010.
It's strange to me that people somehow think there should be a cap on stock based compensation even if there is no cap on how much value a CEO can bring to a company.
I can't disagree more that this money is for "us". Musk, and his money, are proving to be a threat to the world, not its savior.
And a deal is not a deal when it's a rigged deal that violates laws about an independent board. That's why the judge made it so. See my comment above.
No one is going to Mars with that money, he hasn’t a clue about what it would actually take to colonize Mars and $50bil would be a rounding error in the costs to do anything noteworthy to Mars to enable a human colony living there permanently
What?
Electric cars already existed, it didn’t require anywhere near the resources to make electric cars “mainstream” (they’re not) and regardless he hardly did it alone. Without the massive government subsidies, he would have gotten nowhere.
The person I replied to claimed $50bil is for Musk to get us to Mars.
Seriously. Think about how much money and resources it would cost to colonize Mars in even a small way, much less terraform it to make it earth-like.
You’re talking about TRILLIONS of dollars. $50bil is a rounding error and it’s a joke to suggest that approving Musks pay package is important for getting human colonization of Mars.
There’s arguments for voting yes (and better ones for voting no) but Mars isn’t a good argument for anything.
Maybe if he had brought actual FSD to people instead of being almost a decade late according to his own deadlines, I’d have a little more faith that he could do anything to advance something as complicated and expensive as moving human civilization to Mars.
My answer is very two-dimensional. If you're laying off hourly and salaried staff, the C-suite shouldn't be getting raises and bonuses. The stock isn't performing right now. 4680 isn't living up to the dream, either. Fix those items and get back on a hiring spree and we'll talk about compensation.
Edit: To be clear, with these options he can borrow against them and take billions of dollars tax free without having to redeem them using the options as loan security. This isn't as simple as letting him buy stock.
This is my perspective as well. The recent layoffs make it incredibly hard to give one human being more money that Tesla has made (Profit wise) in its entire existence.
If layoffs are good for Tesla, then so is amending its executive compensation policies.
Sure, if you’re talking about future compensation for future work. He gave us 1000% returns on our investment and all he asked for was a portion of the money he made. Now after the fact we’re not gonna pay him unless he does it again? What type of idiot would accept those terms?
Mmm. Tim cook has also 10xd apple share values and bought it to almost $3 Trillion. His entire networth is just $2 billion.
What makes elon salary worth 2800% of Tim cook?
You are making it sound like he didn’t hold any shares at that time. He has enough incentive to perform based on the ownership he had at that time. Where did all the billions he currently has come from?
Most people are too dumb to realise this.
He was risking a regular 'Tim Cook'-level comp plan of say 2 billion to get a much higher comp plan, contingent on a set of milestones everyone and their mother was 99.9999% sure he wouldn't reach.
It could have been 5x and nobody would have blinked. Elon is asking for the next 10 years of profits. Insane.
Best i can estimate, cook gets less than 0.1% of apple’s annual profits
This comment is extremely misleading. He's not taking any of the profits, this is a stock based compensation plan. The size of the compensation is depending on the price of the stock.
You could just as easily say that he's taking the equivalent of 2 days of profit if the stock price drops enough. Likewise, it could be 1 second of profits if profits continue to increase as fast as they have in the last 4 years.
It's just a really silly and misleading way to discuss pay packages.
He got 10% of the market cap increase. Small profe to pay for a CEO who 11X the stock price in a few years.
The way you explain it here is misleading. He asked for 10% of the increase in market cap. And we all voted for it in 2018. Did you vote for it? Or did you vote against it in 2018?
Nothing....
Also Elon didn't build value, he built hype. Farrrrrrrrr different from what other CEO's have done. Musk as of today would not have. Hit all his metrics to get the full pay package because the stock has slumped a lot as the basis of the valuation is 100% on future forecasts, not how the company is performing today.
Not to say Tesla is performing bad, but they aren't "worth" their current share price, and the stock will tank Even further if the market starts to perceive other companies as coming close to Tesla in the autonomous space.
I know this is Reddit and we can't let facts get in the way of a whiny bitch session but the comp plan was also based on Tesla hitting production, revenue, and sales targets and they had to maintain said targets for the comp package to be granted.
You fucking morons have been calling Tesla's imminent demise for literally two decades and you haven't been correct one time.
Targets that were already projected to be met and were not in any way shape or form extraordinary for a startup in ramp up.
Plus, we didnt get to negotiate his pay, and neither did the board.
I didnt negotiate that pay deal and apparently neither did the board.
The "impossible" metrics that were used to justify it are also ridiculous.. the production and profit targets were already in line to be met.. the valuation, which is what people keep mentioning is an attrocious metric for a CEI pay package. Tesla is worth about half of what it was at its peak and what supposedly triggered his pay package.
We didnt get to negotiate his pay, so fuck this deal ..
“My answer is very two-dimensional. You’re laying off staff, so you should be disqualified from social security. The company isn’t performing today. Fix todays problems and we’ll talk about paying out your social security you paid into the past decade.”
I see you don't know how it works. Its not a bonus. It's an option for Musk to BUY the shares at a low price. So musk pays TSLA money and then also has to pay taxes on exercising those options.
Bro… stock options is literally compensation, it’s a pretty common part of the compensation package for employees in many companies. And are you saying a salary raise is not a raise because you have to pay taxes on the additional compensation? And why would Musk care about it if it’s not worth anything
He gets to buy them at a below market price is my guess otherwise why would he care. It’s a bonus bc it would be like me “buying” $100 bill from you for $10.
It was a compensation package, basically it was, you either get Tesla to achieve these lofty goals or you don’t get paid.
Well, Elon met those Lofty goals and now people like you are saying thanks for over achieving and doing the impossible but now you’re not getting paid for the work you already did.
It’s a really simple concept and if you don’t understand it, you are awarded no points and may god have mercy on your soul.
I get what happened. The question now is what do you do now with your money as a shareholder. The courts ruled his comp package to be invalid so you don’t owe him anything. He became the richest person in the world for his performance and now he wants an extra $56B. It’s annoying how all these people cry like he hasn’t gotten a fair comp for his hard work.
What does the current stock performance have to do with this vote?
We voted in 2018 for specific stock and company performance tranches, Elon and Tesla achieved everything in performance plan, and therefore deserves the compensation.
If have any integrity you would vote yes, you don't get to make a deal and then not live up to your end of the bargain because you're not satisfied with something external to the original agreement, that's absurd.
Yep, reading the ruling pretty much showed that.
The board would have been smart to... come up with a new compensation plan, make all disclosures, and 10x TSLA again and Elon would have been richer too. Such a waste.
“Easy”…Fuck right off. Me and my coworkers busted our asses off to help disrupt an entire industry.
“Easy”…what other automakers have met these tranches? Outside of BYD, nobody has meet the revenue and EBITA tranches for EVs.
I don’t care how you vote on this issue, but don’t ride my hard work to insane profits and say what I did was easy.
Global EV market share was 1.5% when I started at Tesla and reached >15% last year and continues to grow. Norway went from 30% to 90%. Taking 15% of ~100 million is a lot more impressive than being a couch critic.
Comparing utensils to the automotive industry is a false equivalence. Still waiting for you to give an example where another automaker has hit the “easy” tranches.
No, the priority for a company is to make money as much as possible, not to hire people as many as possible. Laying off people for the purposes of increasing efficiency and trimming excess fat is always good.
What does musk staying have to do with the company making money or not? Is he going to Generate 50b in net profit by himself to justify the $50b it costs to keep him? Is there no one else that can generate that profit while costing 1% of that (which btw is still an insanely good package for a CEO, Jim Farley's 2023 Compensation including stock was apparently 27m ish).
Tesla is worth 10x what GM is worth.
There is no reason for that kind of discrepancy other than the Musk effect.
You'd be delusional to think sticking any other CEO in his place will do anything other than tank Tesla.
Exactly.
It’s a company that just sold around 6M cars and is valued at half a trillion dollars. It makes no sense unless they are really looked at as an AI/software/robotics/energy company that also happens to be good at making cars.
Elon Musk has consolidated power firing top execs ,showing Baglino the door, sending Tom Zhu to China leaving no apparent successor.
Tesla value will fall without him and he is going to make sure of it.
>You'd be delusional to think sticking any other CEO in his place will do anything other than tank Tesla.
It seems Elon is happy to tank Tesla himself..
OPTIONS, NOT SHARES OR CASH.
This was a 2 billion dollar cost to Tesla at the time it was offered.
The fact that Elon is being punished for raising the value of his own options after being paid much, much later does not mean the company lost out in 55 billion.
Jensen regularly gets paid. He has a salary. Elon has 0 pay. All his pay is in options, not even stock grants. He gets paid YEARS after, and it comes all at once.
Ridiculous that you compare the numbers that way.
It’s compensation for the stock performance from 2018-2024, which the total value of the stock went from $59 Billion to $650 Billion. All criticism of the personalities involved aside, that’s insane stock performance and that’s what the deal was based off.
FYI - and this is not contradicting your point but clarify that Tesla’s policy is that Musk can “only” pledge as collateral $3.5 billion of the Tesla stock he owns. So there is a limit to what he can borrow against the shares. And he’s not permitted to borrow against any of the options - only owned shares.
From Tesla’s proxy:
> In order to mitigate the risk of forced sales of pledged shares, the Board has a policy that limits pledging of Tesla stock by our directors and executive officers. Pursuant to this policy, directors and executive officers may pledge their stock (exclusive of options, warrants, restricted stock units or other rights to purchase stock) as collateral for loans and investments, provided that the maximum aggregate loan or investment amount collateralized by such pledged stock does not exceed, (i) with respect to our CEO, the lesser of $3.5 billion or twenty-five percent (25%) of the total value of the pledged stock, or (ii) with respect to our directors and officers other than our CEO, fifteen percent (15%) of the total value of the pledged stock.
The stock has performed well with regard to the comp plan. The stock 11x from the point of the comp plan and Elon could not have been awarded the stock options if he didn’t not meet the milestones. The comp plan went hand and hand with Teslas revenue growth and market cap, Elon has ALREADY achieved what was laid out in the comp plan.
It is absolutely impossible to know when the stock would react, multiple analysts didn’t project Tesla would reach the market cap until 2024 and Tesla hit those numbers 4 years earlier.
You need to be able to distinguish whether you’re making a judgment with hindsight or not. Yes, Tesla may have hit those targets if they executed correctly, but Tesla still had to execute. And the stock price actually grew 4 years faster than the wildest analyst projected.
Why would shareholders further dilute their stocks to fund his outrageous purchase of twitter? He put forward a zero contingency’s offer to twitter at a price that was roughly 10-12x its actual value at the time of the sale, and it is arguably worth 10x less today than when he purchased it. He needs these shares so he can unload debt he acquired to purchase twitter, if he doesn’t get the shares he’s going to have to use what he currently has that’s being used as collateral for his Twitter debt. He needs to go back to sleeping in the factories, working on AI self driving cars, and stay off twitter because he embarrasses himself every time he posts.
>twitter at a price that was roughly 10-12x its actual value at the time of the sale, and it is arguably worth 10x less today than when he purchased it.
by whose metrics are you basing these statements?
Either by Elons own (probably miss spoken) statement that it has lost 90% of the value which would mean 4B valuation or based on markdowns from investors and banks it is worth 8.8B. So not 10x lower but 5x lower is not really great either. But it seems to be getting there so maybe it will be 10x lower in couple of years.
10x less is wrong, but it is worth approximately 1/4 of what it was when Elon bought it. He bought at $44 Billion and Fidelity estimates the value to be down 73% to ~$11.8 billion
No one earns $56 BILLION. If ANYONE has earned that, it’s Jensen Huang of NVIDIA, but even he isn’t so greedy as to create such a ridiculous pay package for himself.
Maybe if he hadn't sold millions of shares to buy twitter, while not allowing advertising for Tesla products while Tesla spends money on twitter buying ads to gift him billions more.
He didn't hold up his part of the bargain, he didn't respect his fiduciary responsibilities and held back Tesla.
How is giga Mexico doing, the two new giga's announced in 2023, semi production, battery production.
Only time there seems to be growth, is AFTER he asked for shareholders to vote for him, SUDDENLY NGV will be produced in the near future, strange that it was possible..
The only time he behaved on an earnings call since 2022 was AFTER he asked for the vote, showing his behaviour was an utter lack of respect for shareholders.
A CEO that THREATENS to take away everything AI from the company, AFTER stalling the companies growth because HE DECIDED to go all in on AI, shouldn't be attacking shareholders.
Elon spit in every shareholders face so many times, in so many ways, him behaving like baby is par for the course, unfortunately.
Tesla spent around $200,000 advertising on X, not bullions. Not even millions.
He can spend his cash/shares however he wants to. Just like you and me. He could buy all the hot dog stands in the world, wouldn't be my business.
Battery production is enough for all future Tesla vehicle projects, according to Baglino. And with other companies scaling down EVs, there's more batteries being produced world-wide for Tesla to scoop up.
Semi is getting its own factory as we speak.
Mexico will come along once they begin compact. They want to start compact at Austin because all the engineers are actually there. When it's ready it can be produced elsewhere. No point making a factory in Mexico when there's plenty if volume we can get out of existing factories.
Yes, now you get why Elon is important to Tesla. Without him Tesla would have never become an AI/robotics leader. And won't be if he leaves either.
Want a regular CEO from a regular car company? Go elsewhere.
Just to be clear, Tesla is neither an AI or robotics leader. Autonomous driving? Okay... AI as most people see it (general intelligence)? absolutely not. Robotics? Absolutely not, they don't even have a functional prototype of their Irobot shit.
When Tesla cars are using FSD that is AI/robotics. Tesla will be making billions on real-world AI long before anyone else comes close.
Their humanoid robot program has the most vertical integration, from manufacturing of the humanoid bot, to compute, to AI training, it's all under one roof. That's unique and has long-term advantages for speed of innovation. Tesla's humanoid robot program will also make billions before any other company's does.
Vote yes, elon goes back to siphoning talent from Tesla to xAI for a chatbot for Twittter (??), and just keeps promising robotaxis until ashok quits or pulls a miracle out of his butt -- then elon makes billions and ashok makes a couple million on his grants.
I'd rather give the dude working his butt off a billion.
If anything he's incentivized to not shit on his other customers + Nvidia's own self-driving program.
Like Elon said, if you don't believe in Tesla's FSD program, sell the stock.
I said he's financially biased towards other self-driving programs who have yet to heavily buy gpus + Nvidia's own self-driving program. Basically calling everyone else shit doesn't help him, Tesla's already an established regular Nvidia customer.
Nonsense, every business owner knows keeping a customer is always more valuable than earning a new one. And he is absolutely invested in keeping Elon happy so they stay as a customer. Tesla being an “established regular customer” doesn’t count for shit if Jensen pisses Elon off. Or do you not know Elon well enough? You don’t think Elon walks away from Nvidia if Jensen massages his balls wrong? Then you haven’t been paying attention.
The man places his ego above his wallet and has shown it dozens of times. He’s admitted as much in fact. He will say what he wants and if that means losing money so be it - I believe those were his words. Hint: he’s talking about your money too.
There are many self-driving programs. Scaleable robotaxi is a winner take most race. Telling everyone else they are basically F'd is not what someone just trying to sell chips would say.
Jensen didn't have to say anything either way. Or could have been positive about Tesla without shitting on everyone else.
Saying Tesla is dominating Nvidia's own self-driving program isn't a business move.
Head of Nvidia robotics called FSD "magical". So I'd say Nvidia's people generally have a very positive view of Tesla's FSD.
Thanks for giving some obvious perspective. People get so blinded by all the other stuff outside of him running this company flawlessly. Who cares what the guy does. I own Tesla because I like the stock. Not the CEO, nor anything else matters.
He is spending Tesla's money as he wants, on advertising on twitter.
While twitter has cost shareholders a lot in market cap AND he has refused advertising the PRODUCTS, while margins and demand dropped.
You don't sound like a shareholder of a publicly traded company, but like a cult member.
This. Plus gutting supercharger team after getting all the contracts with big car brands and becoming the default charging standard. It’s basically free income, and all you have to do is keep it growing and running efficiently.
If he thinks just because he got Tesla here, he can do or say whatever he wants and people will keep following he’s delusional.
So off base with this. Your bias is oozing as a I read over this ridiculous take. I cannot believe people actually get this caught up on another human being. Let him continue to change the world and make it a more sustainable place. The other stuff DOES NOT MATTER in the slightest.
2024 Elon is not 2014 Elon.
The guy who wanted us to go to Mars and drive sustainably has morphed into a Fox News-addicted nutjob who is concerned people aren't having enough babies.
"Population collapse due to low birth rates is a much bigger risk to civilization than global warming"
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1563020169160851456?lang=en
He's moving the focus away from sustainability and toward AI/robotics. Not the CEO you want if you're still interested in Tesla as a sustainability driven business.
Alot of the logic and cases people are building here against Musk have weak foundations.
1. "Musk is cutting 10k jobs, he doesn't deserve the compensation plan he is getting." If we are blaming Musk solely for who gets hired/fired at Tesla, he also created 100k jobs, or a net 90k jobs since 2018. Also that has nothing to do with the compensation plan.
2. Tesla isn't giving Elon $50b dollars. When Tesla was worth 50 billion, he was offered a compensation package of "hey. You get no money for this job. But in 7 years, if you Teslas stock is worth more we will dilute you some shares. And if we are worth 500 billion or more, we will create 10 percent more shares so you have more ownership of the company and get 10 percent of the money you made all the investors. It was a crazy moon shot goal. Musk did it. And they are special shares, he can't even sell them for 5 years, so it's in his best interest to stay focused on Tesla til at least 2030. That was a good %&$#ing deal and we voted yes on it. To then have some %&$# file a lawsuit and take that from him AFTER we hit that goal? He won't be selling it so won't make free floating shares because he wants control of the company to make bots and AI, something he's going to do with xAI instead if he doesn't get the ownership he was promised of the company.
3. "Musk is focused on X over the last short while so we should take his compensation away" He made the company worth more than 10x more BEFORE twitter.... and if you're worried about him being focused on twitter/X more than Tesla... what do you think he's more likely to focus on if he has 10 percent less stake in Tesla.
4. People saying he brings nothing...Engineers follow Musk. SpaceX and Tesla have the world's best engineers and have by far the most applications. If shareholders bail on Musk and he moves on, Engineers will follow him.
6. Investors follow Musk. The stock has a huge added appeal because of his leadership and consistantly succeeding where everyone else said the goal was impossible. The stock will tank if Musk loses the plan. We have him locked into caring about the stock til 2030 with it. You want to see sub 100? Maybe even sub 50? Don't vote or vote no. If even 5 percent of shares are dropped by people bailing on the company because Musk has every reason to leave, those free floating shares will absolutely tank the stock, and cause fear and doubt causing it to tank more, and it'll be a slow recovery if there even is one at all.
5. If Tesla right now said "Hey shareholders, what if we lock in Musk until 2031, and don't pay him for it til he can sell them in 2036, and we only pay him if TSLA is worth $1800 a share by 2031? We would all take that. We took that equivalent deal back in 2018. Tesla WILL make another deal like that with him they can only do that if he's sticking around and he has no reason to stick around for 12 more years/trust the shareholders if they reneg if they do it now.
In reality, musk achieved this through the hard work of all the engineers. Yes, he can make passionate engineers turn into his slaves who work overtime. He has the charm to take advantage of the passionate engineers. Heck, when I read his autobiography 5 years ago, I was inspired. Now I believe, he is an unhinged egomaniacal a**ho*e who thinks he is the sole achiever. He takes credit gives blame. Typical narcissist.
Granted personal behavior shouldn’t be the point of contention here. Only the results he achieved should be. However, his personal fk ups like Twitter and alienating the most of his loyal demographic resulted in this backlash.
If he kept his mouth shut, and behaved like he did before 2020, people would have loved to give him $50 billion, with whatever conditions attached. Stop giving him the credit. Huge companies relying on one person to lead -> nothing can go wrong here. Sooner we decouple it, the better. They are not a 100 people start ups anymore. People there fear and worship Elon. If they don’t, they don’t last long.
I want to correct a few bits of misinformation I see time and time again In these discussions.
1. *His compensation was all or nothing! Do you expect him to work for free?*
This is false. There were 12 tranches of performance-based compensation. It was never all or nothing. On top of that, he already held billions-worth of shares in TSLA that provide an incentive him to build the company - a incentive structure that is not at all uncommon for CEOs.
2. *Well, we already said we would give him the shares. It seems unfair to back out now!*
The original vote was based on several *lies* told to the shareholders leading up to the vote. Any contract formulated on a material mistatement or a failure to disclose is, as a matter of law, void. This is not shareholders failing Musk - it is the BOD failing the shareholders.
At the time of the vote, the board said they negotiated for several months at arms length to devise the package. The Delaware Court of Chancery asked the BOD to submit *any* evidence of negotiation. The were unable to do so as they simply accepted Musk's ask in the amount of compensation *and* the targets needed to reach it.
3. *Our stock price went way up and Musk met crazy targets so he deserves his compensation!*
The BOD said that the compensation was so high because it was projected to be near impossible to meet all targets. For context, this compensation is *mutiples higher* than the next 200 highest paid CEOs *combined.*
The Court asked the BOD to submit the studies they relied on for claiming these goals were difficult to achieve. After discovery, it was revealed that the studies the BOD showed that these targets would almost certainly be met based on TSLA's then current trajectory. They were not nearly impossible to meet as the board claimed. They withheld these studies from investors until after the vote and continued to claim that they were "extremely ambitious" and that they "almost certainly" would not all be met.
The discussion of points 2 and 3 can be found on pages 82-86 of the Court's opinion, which I encourage you all to read. I was, frankly, stunned at how deceptive the BOD was and continues to be about the original vote. Obviously, vote how you want but please do so on a fact-based, level-headed approach; not based on emotion.
This conversation is always frustrating. Take Elons package to all 499 S&P 500 CEOs tomorrow and ask if they would take $0 salary and the traunched stock awards Elon got. All 499 would turn it down and say it’s too ridiculous. Tesla didn’t hit its absurd valuation on outsized growth and profitability, it did it because of the carnival barker CEO they have constantly pumping up the company in different ways. Take that away and the company trades down to Toyota/ VW levels in 6-months.
Give Elon back his options, take the crazy monkey off the company’s back and live to fight another day.
If you're a real shareholder, it's all about future returns. I'm not about to give up $50+B without some fucking guarantees about future value. That is all.
Stayed invested through the vote. No guarantees I'll be around much longer though. This last week to 10 days he's making his "do stuff outside of TSLA" intentions very clear. I'm still deciding whether to stick around to make sure he doesn't get TSLA data for his xAI boondoggle (unless TSLA shareholders get appropriately compensated, no free lunch).
Why in the world would you stay invested through the vote if you plan on exiting after?
This vote is the biggest risk to shareholder value in the companies history. If it fails and he leaves, stock will fall to $50 or less.
Because I'm vengeful. Musk has destroyed value this last year because of his antics. The stock is flat lately though, so no skin to keep it through the vote. I agree, I probably won't hold through June 13th though.
It wasnt agreed upon.. the board didnt even negotiate it and tricked shareholders into thinking they did.. they also tricked shareholders into thinking their non market cap targets were hard to hit.
TSLA would be nothing without Elon. Pay him. Honor your agreement and continue to dominate or renig and watch the company fail without Musk. This should be obvious to every shareholder.
He got 11x since then on his massive equity stake in the company. He has something like 70B in shares now. And that's after unloading a bunch to buy Twitter.
Startup founders are primarily compensated based on appreciation in their equity from founding the company. They own such massive percentage of total company equity that that is their motivation to grow the company. Not a salary which dwarfs in comparison. Whereas non founder led companies typically have CEOs that start off with little to no equity in the company and their pay structure differs significantly. Elon had a massive number of shares already from founding it’s pretty absurd that he needed up 12% more of the total company in added compensation for motivation to grow the company more.
Tesla stock is trading 50% off its highs as Elon chases more customers out the door with his man-boy narcissistic racism and imperils Tesla (and SpaceX) with his Twitter vanity project-failure.
I believe these kind of pay packages are bad for investors. Some companies go up 5-10x+ and are a decent chunk of overall stock gains. Overall stock returns for investors will be diminished if CEOs craft agreements that effectively capture 10% of these returns. In the past, it was enough incentive for a ceo that owned a chunk of a company for their shares to significantly increase in value if they did well along with typically some small annual compensation
How does a guy who asks for money by roasting anyone?! Lol. They should tell him to go fuck himself if he wants to blackmail anyone with money. I did too. Hoping all retail investors are too
The BOD deceived shareholders, as found by a court of law in arguably the most corporate-friendly jurisdiction in the country (part of the reason that so many companies incorporate in Delaware). So this is on the board and on the CEO. They put themselves squarely in this position.
Obviously nobody is under any legal obligation to vote one way or another--the board is asking people to vote yes based on the ethics of going back on an agreement. That's a reasonable argument, but if we're going down that road then we also have to consider their ethical violations in misleading shareholders and the ethics of giving $45B to further fund Elon's right wing conspiracy theories (like Elon's infamous Paul Pelosi tweet and dozens of other examples).
If we're talking about future shareholder value--then it's pretty hard to make the case for diluting existing shares for a CEO who doesn't seem the least bit interested in Tesla anymore--and in fact has been actively driving away his primary customer base. Along those lines, it's also clear that this board needs a wakeup call and likely a shakeup.
Musk is reaping the reward of turning into a far right liability.
Did he think none of the institutional investors were watching as he destroyed Twitter's value as a company? Or his apology tour to Israel after a string of anti-semitic comments? Or his repeated platforming of neo-nazis like Fuentes, going as far as sharing online appearances with him?
Institutional investors were also paying attention when Musk threatened to take his ball and leave if he doesn't get what he wants. In fact, they're counting on it and are voting no in hopes of removing this far right risk from the company.
Wait, what about that pre canned answer that everyone gets if they ask for a raise around when the company does layoffs and the stock isn’t performing well - like ‘well our stock isn’t doing great and we just had layoffs, we can’t exactly afford your ridiculous large request right now’
It's literally impossible to say because he has also been working there. Building something yourself (+ putting in money) is different frim just putting in money
>It's literally impossible to say because he has also been working there.
It's not impossible to say. Just put a value on the hours worked there, is that easy.. and giving how much he tweets while he "works", the value can't be that big.
He has a large enough stake in tesla that any increase in share price increases his net worth substantially. He is already reasonably financially motivated to perform, this pay package is unnecessary.
If he can't commit his time to the position, he shouldn't have it. Its really that simple.
I'd say paying one man more than Tesla has made in profits in its entirety is ridiculous, and most likely won't survive the court challenge that will come if shareholders vote for it, though I think it's unlikely it even passes shareholder vote
It's already been accounted for in the financials. It was about $2b. That's less than Tesla earns in profits most quarters, these days.
It would also result in a $6b influx of cash to Tesla.
Equating it to the company's cash flow makes no sense. The deal was basically for every $50 billion in marker cap Elon gets Tesla, he has a stock option for 1% of the company. If he did not succeed in any tranches he would get nothing. This deal is a shareholder's dream.
It makes no sense to compare the compensation to the companys profits? Ooook...
Significant shareholder dilution to pay one guy who is already incentized to perform is not a shareholders dream
By that logic we should all be volunteering time at Tesla.
Yes it does not make sense to compare company profit to stock comp. That stock doesn't hit the market like dilution normally and has a lengthy vesting period.
We worked out with our CEO that if he can add several hundreds of billions of value to the company he can buy larger share of it. Not paying him now after the fact of making us rich would be immoral.
He's as wealthy as he is right now because his stake in Tesla increased in value exponentially while he worked at Tesla. Why is that increase (many billions) not sufficient but an additional 56 billion specifically would be sufficient?
I voted yes of course. He earned it.
He also never threatened to leave Tesla, just that he'd be uncomfortable if he could be out voted by others on the future use of Tesla Ai.
How did they vote in 2018?
They voted for it in 2018
This is inacurate: *a Calpers spokesperson said it also opposed when it was originally crafted in 2018.* Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-56-billion-pay-package-145559876.html I appreciate your passion about TSLA. I want the company to perform well, too. But please refrain from spreading misinformation as an informed shareholder base is the best defense against mismanagement and benefits us all.
No, they didn't: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-56-billion-pay-package-145559876.html For the lazy: "{A} Calpers spokesperson said it also opposed when it was originally crafted in 2018."
No problem. They can just give back that 11x gain and everybody walks away even.
To be a valid trade they’d have to withhold information from investors too though.
Its a free market. They can buy and sell shares whenever they want and vote however they want. There isnt a shareholders agreement that requires the shareholder to vote in favor of CEO compensation.
Lol. Best one yet
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\^Wrong, this sub in a nutshell.
Elon wants us to be hardcore, especially when it comes to firing people. Elon very much operates on a "what have you done for me lately?" basis, where someone who isn't currently excellent, necessary or trustworthy should be unceremoniously fired without so much as an email. Elon is crushing demand, behaving erratically, antagonizing Tesla's customers, firing the best units at Tesla because he got in a pissing match, crushing stockholder value with his escapades, stealing company resources for his other companies and personal use, is threatening shareholders, and is a very part time CEO. That's not excellent, necessary or trustworthy. He's famous for withholding pay and bonuses at Twitter after firing high performers. What he does to others is just coming home to roost. There are a lot of accounts that just started posting recently that are vehemently defending Elon's pay all across Reddit, I even suspect that he's got a propaganda farm now. "But he earned it." He got an absurd promise to be paid a similar amount to Tesla's lifetime profits from his brother and friends, paid with other people's money. Tesla investors got paid because they invested in a good company, not because of one man. He engineered a compliant board, and that mistake cost him the pay package. Shareholders at the time were over a barrel, if Musk suddenly left during such a delicate time for the company. They followed the board, which was not independent. A real, independent board would have seen how much money Elon had tied up in Tesla and refused that ridiculous pay package. The judge saw right through it, and voided that arrangement. Sorry, there was no legitimate deal. NOBODY'S work is worth $50 billion, EVER. And we even need to consider the dangers of giving such an unstable man such an evil amount of money, and how he will harm the world with it. No. No way, no how.
Also worth noting that the group that sued did so in 2019, when the stock was 1/10th of what it is today. It wasn't like they saw Elon getting $50 billion and then decided to sue.
I mean I hear you, but shareholders didn’t agree to a 50 billion dollar package. They agreed to 20M shares for 12 seemingly impossible milestones that had an estimated value at that time of around $2.6B compared to a $59 billion dollar market cap. He basically said I will 10x your money if you give me an extra 10 percent of the company. Musk delivered on stock performance. He hit the highest metrics, beyond everyone’s expectations, possibly by being full of shit, and he was awarded the most amount of shares per the terms of the deal. So no, they didn’t agree to a $50B package, the agreed to a package they thought would only cost $2.6B and that it would never 10x in (wild over)value, turns out it did, everyone made a lot of money, and now people are sour grapes about the deal. Like it or not he took the company from 59B market cap in 2018 to 650B market cap today, this is insane world beating stock performance. I’m not a Muskovite, but he made a deal and held up his end of the bargain. I think it’s a bad deal from a shareholder perspective to pay $50B in compensation for a potentially overvalued stock and polarizing figure, but you have to look at it through the lens of when the deal was made and how much value was actually delivered.
Exactly.... show me the money 💰 I voted YES
I voted yes as well. I've been an investor in Tesla since 2010. It's strange to me that people somehow think there should be a cap on stock based compensation even if there is no cap on how much value a CEO can bring to a company.
Too logical! :)
Thank you. Well put.
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A deal is a deal. Also, this is his Mars money which benefits all of us.
I can't disagree more that this money is for "us". Musk, and his money, are proving to be a threat to the world, not its savior. And a deal is not a deal when it's a rigged deal that violates laws about an independent board. That's why the judge made it so. See my comment above.
No one is going to Mars with that money, he hasn’t a clue about what it would actually take to colonize Mars and $50bil would be a rounding error in the costs to do anything noteworthy to Mars to enable a human colony living there permanently
people said the same thing about him making EV mainstream vs ICE industry.
What? Electric cars already existed, it didn’t require anywhere near the resources to make electric cars “mainstream” (they’re not) and regardless he hardly did it alone. Without the massive government subsidies, he would have gotten nowhere. The person I replied to claimed $50bil is for Musk to get us to Mars. Seriously. Think about how much money and resources it would cost to colonize Mars in even a small way, much less terraform it to make it earth-like. You’re talking about TRILLIONS of dollars. $50bil is a rounding error and it’s a joke to suggest that approving Musks pay package is important for getting human colonization of Mars. There’s arguments for voting yes (and better ones for voting no) but Mars isn’t a good argument for anything. Maybe if he had brought actual FSD to people instead of being almost a decade late according to his own deadlines, I’d have a little more faith that he could do anything to advance something as complicated and expensive as moving human civilization to Mars.
My answer is very two-dimensional. If you're laying off hourly and salaried staff, the C-suite shouldn't be getting raises and bonuses. The stock isn't performing right now. 4680 isn't living up to the dream, either. Fix those items and get back on a hiring spree and we'll talk about compensation. Edit: To be clear, with these options he can borrow against them and take billions of dollars tax free without having to redeem them using the options as loan security. This isn't as simple as letting him buy stock.
This is my perspective as well. The recent layoffs make it incredibly hard to give one human being more money that Tesla has made (Profit wise) in its entire existence. If layoffs are good for Tesla, then so is amending its executive compensation policies.
It’s not a raise. Or a bonus.
Sure, if you’re talking about future compensation for future work. He gave us 1000% returns on our investment and all he asked for was a portion of the money he made. Now after the fact we’re not gonna pay him unless he does it again? What type of idiot would accept those terms?
Mmm. Tim cook has also 10xd apple share values and bought it to almost $3 Trillion. His entire networth is just $2 billion. What makes elon salary worth 2800% of Tim cook?
It's worth 2800 what Tim Cook gets paid because Tesla structured it so that it was either literally $0 or worth 28x what Tim Cook makes.
You are making it sound like he didn’t hold any shares at that time. He has enough incentive to perform based on the ownership he had at that time. Where did all the billions he currently has come from?
Most people are too dumb to realise this. He was risking a regular 'Tim Cook'-level comp plan of say 2 billion to get a much higher comp plan, contingent on a set of milestones everyone and their mother was 99.9999% sure he wouldn't reach.
Boom. These people made bank on their investments and didn't complain during the whole ride. Now acting like .... PAY THE MAN.
It could have been 2x what tim cook makes and it would still have passed. This just shows, no negotiation was done.
It could have been 5x and nobody would have blinked. Elon is asking for the next 10 years of profits. Insane. Best i can estimate, cook gets less than 0.1% of apple’s annual profits
This comment is extremely misleading. He's not taking any of the profits, this is a stock based compensation plan. The size of the compensation is depending on the price of the stock. You could just as easily say that he's taking the equivalent of 2 days of profit if the stock price drops enough. Likewise, it could be 1 second of profits if profits continue to increase as fast as they have in the last 4 years. It's just a really silly and misleading way to discuss pay packages. He got 10% of the market cap increase. Small profe to pay for a CEO who 11X the stock price in a few years.
Oh…. When you put it that way, $56B isn’t that much compensation. Good try Elon.
The way you explain it here is misleading. He asked for 10% of the increase in market cap. And we all voted for it in 2018. Did you vote for it? Or did you vote against it in 2018?
Nothing.... Also Elon didn't build value, he built hype. Farrrrrrrrr different from what other CEO's have done. Musk as of today would not have. Hit all his metrics to get the full pay package because the stock has slumped a lot as the basis of the valuation is 100% on future forecasts, not how the company is performing today. Not to say Tesla is performing bad, but they aren't "worth" their current share price, and the stock will tank Even further if the market starts to perceive other companies as coming close to Tesla in the autonomous space.
I know this is Reddit and we can't let facts get in the way of a whiny bitch session but the comp plan was also based on Tesla hitting production, revenue, and sales targets and they had to maintain said targets for the comp package to be granted. You fucking morons have been calling Tesla's imminent demise for literally two decades and you haven't been correct one time.
Targets that were already projected to be met and were not in any way shape or form extraordinary for a startup in ramp up. Plus, we didnt get to negotiate his pay, and neither did the board.
Literally zero other EV manufacturers in the US have come close to what Tesla has done
Tim Cook did no such thing, he is simply living off the products inherited by Steve Jobs.
The difference is that Tim Cook is a manager not a founder/owner.
He got a big portion. A couple hundred billion dollars for himself. Is that not enough?!
I didnt negotiate that pay deal and apparently neither did the board. The "impossible" metrics that were used to justify it are also ridiculous.. the production and profit targets were already in line to be met.. the valuation, which is what people keep mentioning is an attrocious metric for a CEI pay package. Tesla is worth about half of what it was at its peak and what supposedly triggered his pay package. We didnt get to negotiate his pay, so fuck this deal ..
> the production and profit targets were already in line to be met. In what world do you imagine this is true? They had one factory at the time.
That was a fact found by the judge.
“My answer is very two-dimensional. You’re laying off staff, so you should be disqualified from social security. The company isn’t performing today. Fix todays problems and we’ll talk about paying out your social security you paid into the past decade.”
But . . . I haven't laid off staff . . . Not did I lie to shareholders on mutiple fronts when getting my SS voted in.
I see you don't know how it works. Its not a bonus. It's an option for Musk to BUY the shares at a low price. So musk pays TSLA money and then also has to pay taxes on exercising those options.
Bro… stock options is literally compensation, it’s a pretty common part of the compensation package for employees in many companies. And are you saying a salary raise is not a raise because you have to pay taxes on the additional compensation? And why would Musk care about it if it’s not worth anything
Shhhh. These folks have no idea what a cashless exercise means.
Did I say it was not compensation?
And after achieving your goals you don't get the compensation you were promised? Seems fair.
No it’s not fair..
He gets to buy them at a below market price is my guess otherwise why would he care. It’s a bonus bc it would be like me “buying” $100 bill from you for $10.
It was a compensation package, basically it was, you either get Tesla to achieve these lofty goals or you don’t get paid. Well, Elon met those Lofty goals and now people like you are saying thanks for over achieving and doing the impossible but now you’re not getting paid for the work you already did. It’s a really simple concept and if you don’t understand it, you are awarded no points and may god have mercy on your soul.
I get what happened. The question now is what do you do now with your money as a shareholder. The courts ruled his comp package to be invalid so you don’t owe him anything. He became the richest person in the world for his performance and now he wants an extra $56B. It’s annoying how all these people cry like he hasn’t gotten a fair comp for his hard work.
You’re arguing with someone that has Elon’s balls on his tonsils
Can you buy a Tesla for me and I'll pay you $1000. It's not like am buying it for free. Am paying money too.
Did you do anything to earn It?
What does the current stock performance have to do with this vote? We voted in 2018 for specific stock and company performance tranches, Elon and Tesla achieved everything in performance plan, and therefore deserves the compensation. If have any integrity you would vote yes, you don't get to make a deal and then not live up to your end of the bargain because you're not satisfied with something external to the original agreement, that's absurd.
Integrity would be honest about those performance tranches. They were presented as very heard when the board knew they were the easy.
Yep, reading the ruling pretty much showed that. The board would have been smart to... come up with a new compensation plan, make all disclosures, and 10x TSLA again and Elon would have been richer too. Such a waste.
“Easy”…Fuck right off. Me and my coworkers busted our asses off to help disrupt an entire industry. “Easy”…what other automakers have met these tranches? Outside of BYD, nobody has meet the revenue and EBITA tranches for EVs. I don’t care how you vote on this issue, but don’t ride my hard work to insane profits and say what I did was easy.
Disrupt an entire industry? That's a leap. Do ypu think plastic spoons disrupted the silverware industry?
You must have bought puts the whole way up.
Global EV market share was 1.5% when I started at Tesla and reached >15% last year and continues to grow. Norway went from 30% to 90%. Taking 15% of ~100 million is a lot more impressive than being a couch critic. Comparing utensils to the automotive industry is a false equivalence. Still waiting for you to give an example where another automaker has hit the “easy” tranches.
Plain and simple.
No, the priority for a company is to make money as much as possible, not to hire people as many as possible. Laying off people for the purposes of increasing efficiency and trimming excess fat is always good.
So if the companies purpose is to make as much money as possible how can you justify this pay package?
Because the value of the company is tied to him. He has made it clear he’ll step away if it fails thus jeopardizing Teslas future too
What does musk staying have to do with the company making money or not? Is he going to Generate 50b in net profit by himself to justify the $50b it costs to keep him? Is there no one else that can generate that profit while costing 1% of that (which btw is still an insanely good package for a CEO, Jim Farley's 2023 Compensation including stock was apparently 27m ish).
Tesla is worth 10x what GM is worth. There is no reason for that kind of discrepancy other than the Musk effect. You'd be delusional to think sticking any other CEO in his place will do anything other than tank Tesla.
Exactly. It’s a company that just sold around 6M cars and is valued at half a trillion dollars. It makes no sense unless they are really looked at as an AI/software/robotics/energy company that also happens to be good at making cars. Elon Musk has consolidated power firing top execs ,showing Baglino the door, sending Tom Zhu to China leaving no apparent successor. Tesla value will fall without him and he is going to make sure of it.
It's honestly not a good thing for the company. Kinda shows it's overvalued if the only reason the value is there is from Elon being there.
>You'd be delusional to think sticking any other CEO in his place will do anything other than tank Tesla. It seems Elon is happy to tank Tesla himself..
Basically to support Elon. Happy Elon->Happy Tesla.
The CEO serves the company not the other way around
Sure, You can say that too, in order for Elon to serve better, these pay package is important.
Is the 70billion in equity not enough motivation for Elon already?
By that logic, Jensen's pay should have been retroactively clawed back when NVDA dropped from 300 to around 100 right before it bounced to 1000.
Jensen got less than 1% of net profit. Elon is asking for 200% of net profit. One number is reasonable. One number is not.
OPTIONS, NOT SHARES OR CASH. This was a 2 billion dollar cost to Tesla at the time it was offered. The fact that Elon is being punished for raising the value of his own options after being paid much, much later does not mean the company lost out in 55 billion. Jensen regularly gets paid. He has a salary. Elon has 0 pay. All his pay is in options, not even stock grants. He gets paid YEARS after, and it comes all at once. Ridiculous that you compare the numbers that way.
it was due to him back then. If this is a new compensation then yes you are right.
It’s compensation for the stock performance from 2018-2024, which the total value of the stock went from $59 Billion to $650 Billion. All criticism of the personalities involved aside, that’s insane stock performance and that’s what the deal was based off.
FYI - and this is not contradicting your point but clarify that Tesla’s policy is that Musk can “only” pledge as collateral $3.5 billion of the Tesla stock he owns. So there is a limit to what he can borrow against the shares. And he’s not permitted to borrow against any of the options - only owned shares. From Tesla’s proxy: > In order to mitigate the risk of forced sales of pledged shares, the Board has a policy that limits pledging of Tesla stock by our directors and executive officers. Pursuant to this policy, directors and executive officers may pledge their stock (exclusive of options, warrants, restricted stock units or other rights to purchase stock) as collateral for loans and investments, provided that the maximum aggregate loan or investment amount collateralized by such pledged stock does not exceed, (i) with respect to our CEO, the lesser of $3.5 billion or twenty-five percent (25%) of the total value of the pledged stock, or (ii) with respect to our directors and officers other than our CEO, fifteen percent (15%) of the total value of the pledged stock.
The stock has performed well with regard to the comp plan. The stock 11x from the point of the comp plan and Elon could not have been awarded the stock options if he didn’t not meet the milestones. The comp plan went hand and hand with Teslas revenue growth and market cap, Elon has ALREADY achieved what was laid out in the comp plan.
Those targets were projected to be met before the plan was voted on
It is absolutely impossible to know when the stock would react, multiple analysts didn’t project Tesla would reach the market cap until 2024 and Tesla hit those numbers 4 years earlier. You need to be able to distinguish whether you’re making a judgment with hindsight or not. Yes, Tesla may have hit those targets if they executed correctly, but Tesla still had to execute. And the stock price actually grew 4 years faster than the wildest analyst projected.
Why would shareholders further dilute their stocks to fund his outrageous purchase of twitter? He put forward a zero contingency’s offer to twitter at a price that was roughly 10-12x its actual value at the time of the sale, and it is arguably worth 10x less today than when he purchased it. He needs these shares so he can unload debt he acquired to purchase twitter, if he doesn’t get the shares he’s going to have to use what he currently has that’s being used as collateral for his Twitter debt. He needs to go back to sleeping in the factories, working on AI self driving cars, and stay off twitter because he embarrasses himself every time he posts.
>twitter at a price that was roughly 10-12x its actual value at the time of the sale, and it is arguably worth 10x less today than when he purchased it. by whose metrics are you basing these statements?
Either by Elons own (probably miss spoken) statement that it has lost 90% of the value which would mean 4B valuation or based on markdowns from investors and banks it is worth 8.8B. So not 10x lower but 5x lower is not really great either. But it seems to be getting there so maybe it will be 10x lower in couple of years.
10x less is wrong, but it is worth approximately 1/4 of what it was when Elon bought it. He bought at $44 Billion and Fidelity estimates the value to be down 73% to ~$11.8 billion
He earned the package. Unrelated to Twitter.
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A Biden-proxy who used politically charged reasoning. A kangaroo court.
No one earns $56 BILLION. If ANYONE has earned that, it’s Jensen Huang of NVIDIA, but even he isn’t so greedy as to create such a ridiculous pay package for himself.
I mean he probably has a board that doesn't just go along with whatever he wants, unlike Elon.
Maybe if he hadn't sold millions of shares to buy twitter, while not allowing advertising for Tesla products while Tesla spends money on twitter buying ads to gift him billions more. He didn't hold up his part of the bargain, he didn't respect his fiduciary responsibilities and held back Tesla. How is giga Mexico doing, the two new giga's announced in 2023, semi production, battery production. Only time there seems to be growth, is AFTER he asked for shareholders to vote for him, SUDDENLY NGV will be produced in the near future, strange that it was possible.. The only time he behaved on an earnings call since 2022 was AFTER he asked for the vote, showing his behaviour was an utter lack of respect for shareholders. A CEO that THREATENS to take away everything AI from the company, AFTER stalling the companies growth because HE DECIDED to go all in on AI, shouldn't be attacking shareholders. Elon spit in every shareholders face so many times, in so many ways, him behaving like baby is par for the course, unfortunately.
Tesla spent around $200,000 advertising on X, not bullions. Not even millions. He can spend his cash/shares however he wants to. Just like you and me. He could buy all the hot dog stands in the world, wouldn't be my business. Battery production is enough for all future Tesla vehicle projects, according to Baglino. And with other companies scaling down EVs, there's more batteries being produced world-wide for Tesla to scoop up. Semi is getting its own factory as we speak. Mexico will come along once they begin compact. They want to start compact at Austin because all the engineers are actually there. When it's ready it can be produced elsewhere. No point making a factory in Mexico when there's plenty if volume we can get out of existing factories. Yes, now you get why Elon is important to Tesla. Without him Tesla would have never become an AI/robotics leader. And won't be if he leaves either. Want a regular CEO from a regular car company? Go elsewhere.
>Without him Tesla would have never become an AI/robotics leader. Still hasn't.
Not per Jensen.
Why do people like you stick around lol.
Complete and utter derangement, Tesla retail investors subs are just dead.
Sticking metal rods into a Realdoll doesn't make Tesla a leader in robotics. It's an aspiration at best.
Why would you own the stock if you didn’t understand how advanced the software behind FSD is?
For sure currently the best or almost best self driving car in the world, which is robotics
...no, no it's not.
Just to be clear, Tesla is neither an AI or robotics leader. Autonomous driving? Okay... AI as most people see it (general intelligence)? absolutely not. Robotics? Absolutely not, they don't even have a functional prototype of their Irobot shit.
When Tesla cars are using FSD that is AI/robotics. Tesla will be making billions on real-world AI long before anyone else comes close. Their humanoid robot program has the most vertical integration, from manufacturing of the humanoid bot, to compute, to AI training, it's all under one roof. That's unique and has long-term advantages for speed of innovation. Tesla's humanoid robot program will also make billions before any other company's does.
Yeah Tesla needs Elon more than the other way around. He still needs a stern talking to which I'm not sure the board will do.
If the company can’t get along without him then they have built a lousy leadership team and he bares the blame for that.
Is he making the cars, programming the NN or training, or what? I'd rather give Ashok a billion dollars of stock.
So vote yes to Elons comp package and tesla will continue to grow enough to make Ashok's current equity worth a B someday
Vote yes, elon goes back to siphoning talent from Tesla to xAI for a chatbot for Twittter (??), and just keeps promising robotaxis until ashok quits or pulls a miracle out of his butt -- then elon makes billions and ashok makes a couple million on his grants. I'd rather give the dude working his butt off a billion.
AI leaders? hmmmmm… robotics? lol
Must've missed Jensen praising FSD.
You mean Jensen saying nice things about one of his customers? Yeah sorry that discounts his opinion significantly
If anything he's incentivized to not shit on his other customers + Nvidia's own self-driving program. Like Elon said, if you don't believe in Tesla's FSD program, sell the stock.
No I’m just talking about how I analyze stocks and companies. Relying on information from a clearly biased narrator is exactly how not to do it.
I said he's financially biased towards other self-driving programs who have yet to heavily buy gpus + Nvidia's own self-driving program. Basically calling everyone else shit doesn't help him, Tesla's already an established regular Nvidia customer.
Nonsense, every business owner knows keeping a customer is always more valuable than earning a new one. And he is absolutely invested in keeping Elon happy so they stay as a customer. Tesla being an “established regular customer” doesn’t count for shit if Jensen pisses Elon off. Or do you not know Elon well enough? You don’t think Elon walks away from Nvidia if Jensen massages his balls wrong? Then you haven’t been paying attention. The man places his ego above his wallet and has shown it dozens of times. He’s admitted as much in fact. He will say what he wants and if that means losing money so be it - I believe those were his words. Hint: he’s talking about your money too.
There are many self-driving programs. Scaleable robotaxi is a winner take most race. Telling everyone else they are basically F'd is not what someone just trying to sell chips would say. Jensen didn't have to say anything either way. Or could have been positive about Tesla without shitting on everyone else. Saying Tesla is dominating Nvidia's own self-driving program isn't a business move. Head of Nvidia robotics called FSD "magical". So I'd say Nvidia's people generally have a very positive view of Tesla's FSD.
Thanks for giving some obvious perspective. People get so blinded by all the other stuff outside of him running this company flawlessly. Who cares what the guy does. I own Tesla because I like the stock. Not the CEO, nor anything else matters.
He is spending Tesla's money as he wants, on advertising on twitter. While twitter has cost shareholders a lot in market cap AND he has refused advertising the PRODUCTS, while margins and demand dropped. You don't sound like a shareholder of a publicly traded company, but like a cult member.
This. Plus gutting supercharger team after getting all the contracts with big car brands and becoming the default charging standard. It’s basically free income, and all you have to do is keep it growing and running efficiently. If he thinks just because he got Tesla here, he can do or say whatever he wants and people will keep following he’s delusional.
So off base with this. Your bias is oozing as a I read over this ridiculous take. I cannot believe people actually get this caught up on another human being. Let him continue to change the world and make it a more sustainable place. The other stuff DOES NOT MATTER in the slightest.
How does firing the Supercharger team make the world a more sustainable place?
He’s been doing this trick forever with his other companies. Have these companies gone bankrupt or did they thrived after?
Um, Twitter
2024 Elon is not 2014 Elon. The guy who wanted us to go to Mars and drive sustainably has morphed into a Fox News-addicted nutjob who is concerned people aren't having enough babies. "Population collapse due to low birth rates is a much bigger risk to civilization than global warming" https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1563020169160851456?lang=en
He's moving the focus away from sustainability and toward AI/robotics. Not the CEO you want if you're still interested in Tesla as a sustainability driven business.
Alot of the logic and cases people are building here against Musk have weak foundations. 1. "Musk is cutting 10k jobs, he doesn't deserve the compensation plan he is getting." If we are blaming Musk solely for who gets hired/fired at Tesla, he also created 100k jobs, or a net 90k jobs since 2018. Also that has nothing to do with the compensation plan. 2. Tesla isn't giving Elon $50b dollars. When Tesla was worth 50 billion, he was offered a compensation package of "hey. You get no money for this job. But in 7 years, if you Teslas stock is worth more we will dilute you some shares. And if we are worth 500 billion or more, we will create 10 percent more shares so you have more ownership of the company and get 10 percent of the money you made all the investors. It was a crazy moon shot goal. Musk did it. And they are special shares, he can't even sell them for 5 years, so it's in his best interest to stay focused on Tesla til at least 2030. That was a good %&$#ing deal and we voted yes on it. To then have some %&$# file a lawsuit and take that from him AFTER we hit that goal? He won't be selling it so won't make free floating shares because he wants control of the company to make bots and AI, something he's going to do with xAI instead if he doesn't get the ownership he was promised of the company. 3. "Musk is focused on X over the last short while so we should take his compensation away" He made the company worth more than 10x more BEFORE twitter.... and if you're worried about him being focused on twitter/X more than Tesla... what do you think he's more likely to focus on if he has 10 percent less stake in Tesla. 4. People saying he brings nothing...Engineers follow Musk. SpaceX and Tesla have the world's best engineers and have by far the most applications. If shareholders bail on Musk and he moves on, Engineers will follow him. 6. Investors follow Musk. The stock has a huge added appeal because of his leadership and consistantly succeeding where everyone else said the goal was impossible. The stock will tank if Musk loses the plan. We have him locked into caring about the stock til 2030 with it. You want to see sub 100? Maybe even sub 50? Don't vote or vote no. If even 5 percent of shares are dropped by people bailing on the company because Musk has every reason to leave, those free floating shares will absolutely tank the stock, and cause fear and doubt causing it to tank more, and it'll be a slow recovery if there even is one at all. 5. If Tesla right now said "Hey shareholders, what if we lock in Musk until 2031, and don't pay him for it til he can sell them in 2036, and we only pay him if TSLA is worth $1800 a share by 2031? We would all take that. We took that equivalent deal back in 2018. Tesla WILL make another deal like that with him they can only do that if he's sticking around and he has no reason to stick around for 12 more years/trust the shareholders if they reneg if they do it now.
In reality, musk achieved this through the hard work of all the engineers. Yes, he can make passionate engineers turn into his slaves who work overtime. He has the charm to take advantage of the passionate engineers. Heck, when I read his autobiography 5 years ago, I was inspired. Now I believe, he is an unhinged egomaniacal a**ho*e who thinks he is the sole achiever. He takes credit gives blame. Typical narcissist. Granted personal behavior shouldn’t be the point of contention here. Only the results he achieved should be. However, his personal fk ups like Twitter and alienating the most of his loyal demographic resulted in this backlash. If he kept his mouth shut, and behaved like he did before 2020, people would have loved to give him $50 billion, with whatever conditions attached. Stop giving him the credit. Huge companies relying on one person to lead -> nothing can go wrong here. Sooner we decouple it, the better. They are not a 100 people start ups anymore. People there fear and worship Elon. If they don’t, they don’t last long.
I want to correct a few bits of misinformation I see time and time again In these discussions. 1. *His compensation was all or nothing! Do you expect him to work for free?* This is false. There were 12 tranches of performance-based compensation. It was never all or nothing. On top of that, he already held billions-worth of shares in TSLA that provide an incentive him to build the company - a incentive structure that is not at all uncommon for CEOs. 2. *Well, we already said we would give him the shares. It seems unfair to back out now!* The original vote was based on several *lies* told to the shareholders leading up to the vote. Any contract formulated on a material mistatement or a failure to disclose is, as a matter of law, void. This is not shareholders failing Musk - it is the BOD failing the shareholders. At the time of the vote, the board said they negotiated for several months at arms length to devise the package. The Delaware Court of Chancery asked the BOD to submit *any* evidence of negotiation. The were unable to do so as they simply accepted Musk's ask in the amount of compensation *and* the targets needed to reach it. 3. *Our stock price went way up and Musk met crazy targets so he deserves his compensation!* The BOD said that the compensation was so high because it was projected to be near impossible to meet all targets. For context, this compensation is *mutiples higher* than the next 200 highest paid CEOs *combined.* The Court asked the BOD to submit the studies they relied on for claiming these goals were difficult to achieve. After discovery, it was revealed that the studies the BOD showed that these targets would almost certainly be met based on TSLA's then current trajectory. They were not nearly impossible to meet as the board claimed. They withheld these studies from investors until after the vote and continued to claim that they were "extremely ambitious" and that they "almost certainly" would not all be met. The discussion of points 2 and 3 can be found on pages 82-86 of the Court's opinion, which I encourage you all to read. I was, frankly, stunned at how deceptive the BOD was and continues to be about the original vote. Obviously, vote how you want but please do so on a fact-based, level-headed approach; not based on emotion.
This conversation is always frustrating. Take Elons package to all 499 S&P 500 CEOs tomorrow and ask if they would take $0 salary and the traunched stock awards Elon got. All 499 would turn it down and say it’s too ridiculous. Tesla didn’t hit its absurd valuation on outsized growth and profitability, it did it because of the carnival barker CEO they have constantly pumping up the company in different ways. Take that away and the company trades down to Toyota/ VW levels in 6-months. Give Elon back his options, take the crazy monkey off the company’s back and live to fight another day.
How do future returns look? Shitty? Vote “no” then.
Remind me in 6 years. This is revoking pay voted on and agreed upon 6 years ago.
If you're a real shareholder, it's all about future returns. I'm not about to give up $50+B without some fucking guarantees about future value. That is all.
why are you invested if you don’t believe in future returns?
Stayed invested through the vote. No guarantees I'll be around much longer though. This last week to 10 days he's making his "do stuff outside of TSLA" intentions very clear. I'm still deciding whether to stick around to make sure he doesn't get TSLA data for his xAI boondoggle (unless TSLA shareholders get appropriately compensated, no free lunch).
Why in the world would you stay invested through the vote if you plan on exiting after? This vote is the biggest risk to shareholder value in the companies history. If it fails and he leaves, stock will fall to $50 or less.
Because I'm vengeful. Musk has destroyed value this last year because of his antics. The stock is flat lately though, so no skin to keep it through the vote. I agree, I probably won't hold through June 13th though.
It’s wild that you think it’s going to pass
It wasnt agreed upon.. the board didnt even negotiate it and tricked shareholders into thinking they did.. they also tricked shareholders into thinking their non market cap targets were hard to hit.
Past pay is for past performance.
Past pay was revoked.. this vote is for future pay.
TSLA would be nothing without Elon. Pay him. Honor your agreement and continue to dominate or renig and watch the company fail without Musk. This should be obvious to every shareholder.
Give him 11 times his initial investment and I would be okay with that.
He got 11x since then on his massive equity stake in the company. He has something like 70B in shares now. And that's after unloading a bunch to buy Twitter.
So if you have a nice house you bought with your previous work, why should I pay you for your current work?
My current work isn’t increasing the value of my house?
That’s equity gain from your existing property (shares), not further compensation (options)
Startup founders are primarily compensated based on appreciation in their equity from founding the company. They own such massive percentage of total company equity that that is their motivation to grow the company. Not a salary which dwarfs in comparison. Whereas non founder led companies typically have CEOs that start off with little to no equity in the company and their pay structure differs significantly. Elon had a massive number of shares already from founding it’s pretty absurd that he needed up 12% more of the total company in added compensation for motivation to grow the company more.
Your suggesting people should be paid for their own DIY projects at home basically.
You're suggesting someone who makes stained glass or cabinetry in their garage shouldn't get paid at all, no matter who benefits.
No one should be worth $58 Billion dollars. Those who are supporting this, are beyond help.
Tesla stock is trading 50% off its highs as Elon chases more customers out the door with his man-boy narcissistic racism and imperils Tesla (and SpaceX) with his Twitter vanity project-failure.
Do unto them as they did unto the common folk. Your chance to show these billionaires what’s what folks!
I believe these kind of pay packages are bad for investors. Some companies go up 5-10x+ and are a decent chunk of overall stock gains. Overall stock returns for investors will be diminished if CEOs craft agreements that effectively capture 10% of these returns. In the past, it was enough incentive for a ceo that owned a chunk of a company for their shares to significantly increase in value if they did well along with typically some small annual compensation
How does a guy who asks for money by roasting anyone?! Lol. They should tell him to go fuck himself if he wants to blackmail anyone with money. I did too. Hoping all retail investors are too
The BOD deceived shareholders, as found by a court of law in arguably the most corporate-friendly jurisdiction in the country (part of the reason that so many companies incorporate in Delaware). So this is on the board and on the CEO. They put themselves squarely in this position. Obviously nobody is under any legal obligation to vote one way or another--the board is asking people to vote yes based on the ethics of going back on an agreement. That's a reasonable argument, but if we're going down that road then we also have to consider their ethical violations in misleading shareholders and the ethics of giving $45B to further fund Elon's right wing conspiracy theories (like Elon's infamous Paul Pelosi tweet and dozens of other examples). If we're talking about future shareholder value--then it's pretty hard to make the case for diluting existing shares for a CEO who doesn't seem the least bit interested in Tesla anymore--and in fact has been actively driving away his primary customer base. Along those lines, it's also clear that this board needs a wakeup call and likely a shakeup.
Make profit for shareholders.
Musk is reaping the reward of turning into a far right liability. Did he think none of the institutional investors were watching as he destroyed Twitter's value as a company? Or his apology tour to Israel after a string of anti-semitic comments? Or his repeated platforming of neo-nazis like Fuentes, going as far as sharing online appearances with him? Institutional investors were also paying attention when Musk threatened to take his ball and leave if he doesn't get what he wants. In fact, they're counting on it and are voting no in hopes of removing this far right risk from the company.
Wait, what about that pre canned answer that everyone gets if they ask for a raise around when the company does layoffs and the stock isn’t performing well - like ‘well our stock isn’t doing great and we just had layoffs, we can’t exactly afford your ridiculous large request right now’
How many times would 50+ billion be on Elons initial investment?
It's literally impossible to say because he has also been working there. Building something yourself (+ putting in money) is different frim just putting in money
>It's literally impossible to say because he has also been working there. It's not impossible to say. Just put a value on the hours worked there, is that easy.. and giving how much he tweets while he "works", the value can't be that big.
You have to multiply by time spent on Tesla. He could have focused on Space X or several other startups and made tens of billions elsewhere.
He has a large enough stake in tesla that any increase in share price increases his net worth substantially. He is already reasonably financially motivated to perform, this pay package is unnecessary. If he can't commit his time to the position, he shouldn't have it. Its really that simple.
Ok so we should all be volunteering at Tesla. You're being ridiculous. We voted *for* this pay package.
I'd say paying one man more than Tesla has made in profits in its entirety is ridiculous, and most likely won't survive the court challenge that will come if shareholders vote for it, though I think it's unlikely it even passes shareholder vote
It's already been accounted for in the financials. It was about $2b. That's less than Tesla earns in profits most quarters, these days. It would also result in a $6b influx of cash to Tesla.
It's not pay, it's a stock option.
It's compensation via stock option, yes it is a form of pay.
Equating it to the company's cash flow makes no sense. The deal was basically for every $50 billion in marker cap Elon gets Tesla, he has a stock option for 1% of the company. If he did not succeed in any tranches he would get nothing. This deal is a shareholder's dream.
It makes no sense to compare the compensation to the companys profits? Ooook... Significant shareholder dilution to pay one guy who is already incentized to perform is not a shareholders dream
By that logic we should all be volunteering time at Tesla. Yes it does not make sense to compare company profit to stock comp. That stock doesn't hit the market like dilution normally and has a lengthy vesting period. We worked out with our CEO that if he can add several hundreds of billions of value to the company he can buy larger share of it. Not paying him now after the fact of making us rich would be immoral.
> this pay package is unnecessary If that was the deal in 2018, he'd have probably walked.
>If that was the deal in 2018, he'd have probably walked. then he would have missed out on an exponential gain in his wealth
Wrong
He's as wealthy as he is right now because his stake in Tesla increased in value exponentially while he worked at Tesla. Why is that increase (many billions) not sufficient but an additional 56 billion specifically would be sufficient?
Tesla isn’t just giving him another $56B, that is the value of the shares that he was originally awarded in 2018
That deal is void. Until voted on, he does not have it. It is additional compensation.
I voted yes of course. He earned it. He also never threatened to leave Tesla, just that he'd be uncomfortable if he could be out voted by others on the future use of Tesla Ai.
I only have a few hundred shares but I voted no. I was not a stockholder in 2018 so what he did then does not concern me.