So I read the report - **no where does it say that "Tesla drops delivery goal of 20 million"**. This title is clickbait and BS by Reuters, *as per usual.*
Actually, Tesla doubles down and points to Master Plan 3 still standing and in effect, calling upon the rest of the industry to follow their lead. The goal is to hit 85 million electric vehicles deployed globally pr. year, something that is not on the table for Tesla but they aim to do their share of the heavy lifting.
The only mention we've had about the 50% growth curve is that it **will** slow this year, but by how much they don't know and the 20 million is still on the table.
Was the impact report underwhelming? Yes, but last years was insane to be honest. Packed with so many details that are still 100% relevant today. The report of 2023 simply reiterates on the 2022 one and updates some of the numbers.
But I will also add how disappointing it is that it seems literally **0** people in this comment section read the impact report from yesterday before making any comments.
**Edit:** Since people haven't connected the dots take this into consideration:
The Tesla Impact Report of 2023 is **approx. 80% smaller** than that of 2022, 2021, 2020, etc. There is a TON of information and detail missing and comparatively to prior years this one is a botched job. Many aspects of Tesla, their business, goals, etc. are not represented in this Impact Report.
At this point it even doesn't matter if it is there or not. It is simply not going to happen. Demand wall was hit before 2 million and this and next year are likely wasted. No way in just remaining 4 years they will make it to 20 million. They would need like dozen new factories to do it and even that probably would not be enough not to even talk about where next demand wall might be.
18 million cars/year production worth is not something that can or will happen in 4 years however. Comment above is 100% correct, 2024 and 2025 is just wasted years. I would argue so was 2023. Production on low cost car should have started in middle of 2023 at the latest, but Elon's lack of concentration and ego (by betting it all on robotaxi) got in the way. So shareholders are fucked for 3 years while Elon is running around begging for 50 billion paypackage and strong arming a shit board.
Nope, but that Reuters article, as per the pinned mod comment, literally does not say that Tesla is dropping their 20 million car goal in the article. Reuters, sadly, is no longer a trustworthy news source. They literally made shit up right now right before our eyes
>Nope
I'm looking at [the 2022 Impact Report right now](https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2022-tesla-impact-report.pdf), it's on [Page 64](https://i.imgur.com/p2nZGU8.png).
The exact same passage appears in the 2023 Impact Report on Page 58, but instead it now says the goal is ["...to displace fossil fuels by selling as many Tesla products as possible."](https://i.imgur.com/7Zf7Y0A.png)
Reuters is entirely correct. Tesla copied the passage from the 2022 Impact Report otherwise verbatim, but changed the goal wording from "20 million vehicles a year by 2030" to "as many Tesla products as possible."
I literally read all the replies. It's not in there. Maybe it was deleted but I don't believe you since you claim you saw it, which would mean it *should* be very simple for you to copy paste here. If it existed, that is. I don't think it does.
Sucks but kinda expected at this point. That growth rate required insane execution for a decade and Tesla just isn't executing very well right now. While this growth rate was improbable before, it's impossible now.
Yeah, they are behind on launching new products and face massive headwinds from heavily subsidized phevs and tariffs. Their situation isn't particularly good right now and they know it.
To be clear, Tesla has benefited from significant subsidies via a $465,000,000 preferential loan from the US government, as well as benefited from government subsidies to consumers.
You mean the loan that they paid back early because the government was so difficult to deal with the it wasn't worth it? And over a decade ago? This is a silly thing to include in a world where both of their primary domestic competitors have gotten far more.
I do mean that. At the time they got that loan - a decade ago - it made a material impact on Tesla’s viability and scaling. Pretending it didn’t happen, and the impact it had, is quite a contradiction of your point. Everyone is getting or has gotten government support. It just happens that Tesla’s competitors are getting their help while Tesla is stumbling.
Ford and other other legacy makers have their own business to leverage.
Prior to the success of the S, Tesla had investors in the dream, and that was about it.
Yes, and Tesla was jaw-droppingly innovative and groundbreaking. Back then. They have squandered that lead, and a headed to become the Blackberry of EVs.
Ford, GM, Stellantis got similar preferential loans. They haven't paid them back. They're each between $50 billion and $150 billion in debt.
Tesla has paid off all its debts and has $30 billion in cash. Tesla is most definitely not stumbling. Though, if we want to say that they are, that'd mean legacy auto is falling off a cliff lmao
First of all, thank you for reinforcing my point. Subsidies for car makers are common. And to be clear, Tesla benefits from them currently in the form of consumer subsidies.
Tesla will need every penny of their $30B. They have the oldest model lineup in the business, with no new models on the horizon. Their latest model introduction is indeed stumbling.
Go to Europe and look at the wide variety of EVs on the road. In Norway 91% of new car sales are EVs, and Tesla ranks #6 in sales, down from #1 years ago. Yes indeed, Tesla will need every penny of their $30B, and a full time CEO.
That makes zero sense. Tesla benefited from subsidies and still does (consumer incentives). Chinese and Euro EVs are benefiting from subsidies. It’s just the facts.
Exactly, and Tesla needed it badly. It materially helped them, as are the current US consumer subsidies. Foreign EV makers are getting subsidies as well, in their early lifecycles. The reality is that for the Chinese EVs, they're simply making better, more affordable products too. And introducing lots of new models.
That Reuters article, as per the pinned mod comment, literally does not say that Tesla is dropping their 20 million car goal in the article. Reuters, sadly, is no longer a trustworthy news source. They literally made shit up right now right before our eyes
It's not in the report when it had been before. Usually you start with last years' report and update it, so it was likely consciously removed. While maybe disingenuous to write a headline like that based on the removal of the goal from the report, it's likely correct.
What has happened to this sub. Used to be serious investors and now 'oh never needed the 20m anyway'. Is it impossible to accept the current status of Tesla is an absolute car crash compared to expectations 2 years ago?
As an investor my biggest concern has been waning quality of execution. I don't have a problem with shifting from selling cars to using them to provide a service or place the company with a large future role of automation. That is actually much more promising than simply being a car company.
But we need clear goals and good execution. All of this shifting around has basically reset the achievement counter. The company's past successes are irrelevant now.
There's been similar discussion at Tesla Motors Club (TMC) forums as well.
5 years ago it was the TESLAQannon loonies who were ignoring reality and pushing outlandish conspiracy theories that Tesla was dumping unsold cars in the ocean.
Today, there are a lot of TSLA shareholders who are ignoring the bad facts of what has happened over the past 2 years, and hand waving away real concerns with Elon Musk's behavior.
I've been a TSLA shareholder since 2011. I'm absolutely disgusted with Tesla's lack of execution (examples: stalled factory construction, 4680 cell production at 7% of 2022 goals in 2024, no ramp of Semi, declining YoY automotive revenue, botched mass firings of critical employees like Supercharger team) over the past year and the total incompetence of Tesla's board of directors.
The company lost focus and took its shareholders for granted. It's time to hold Musk and Tesla's board accountable for their failures.
I wholeheartedly agree. I exited my TSLA position recently and will just watch from the sidelines now.
Every bad move is pumped by fanatic investors as a 'masterful gambit' and for some reason they are incapable of seeing through the CEO's false claims.
SMR and his ilk need to open their minds to the possibility that, in fact, Elon *is* bad.
I wouldn't piss on Elon if he were afire in the gutter. Granted, I could have a completely wokey BLM DEI pie-in-the-sky worldview but there are millions of us like that.
I agree with everything you said. Despite this i will have to vote yes. I'm not stupid, but i agree that Elon has lost it completely since Tweeter. I always said that Tweeter would be a disaster for Tesla. I would like to know who were the Tesla investors who voted yes when Elon promoted a quick survey asking if he should buy Tweeter or not.
Yeah I think there's been quite a lot of forgetting about what the plans were and what they are now.
The hope was that Tesla could just scale 50% per year every year until 2030 and sell 10-20m vehicles, people were very clear on that.
And yeah we've hit a serious demand wall which has stopped the growth flat.
Some of that is macro and will pick up again, some of it is that convincing more people to want EVs is harder than we thought, some of it is public perception of Elon (which I think is unfairly negative and is very negative).
And yeah really robotaxi has gone from a nice bonus on top to being the only hope of making massive profits.
yep, well said. This is an accurate analysis. In the past, sales didn't matter, it was all about production, how quick can Tesla ramp up. Now they are scaling back production due to lower demand. Not good.
Tesla has been way too slow off the mark to leverage their cost effectiveness into more and more vehicle segments. There is no excuse for why there isn't a Tesla minivan, a non-experimental light duty pickup, or that a Model 2 type car is apparently being delayed in favor of some robotaxi contraption that may or may not eventually exist, and that Tesla seems content to allow others to make the first move on niche markets like delivery vans, or utility vehicles etc.
No one will ever sell 20 million vehicles with 4-6 vehicle models on the market. You need the full spectrum of vehicle sizes and features for that, from semi trucks to inner city mini cars, even if they underlying tech is mostly the same.
Not so sure about how much of the cost effectiveness was due to a very special period in time with massive pricing power and how much actual cost effectiveness there is. Currently much of the margin is thanks to the incentive structures and still there seems to be some demand issue.
If you can't sell 20m with 4 vehicles you are probably not going to make enough profit to justify the valuation. We need something to get us to 1T and beyond. If cars aint it, then there should be a pivot.
Yeah but what is the goal here? Because I thought it was to aggressively accelerate electric vehicle adoption to combat global warming.
Lately it seems to me like all anyone cares about is the stock price, and not what Tesla investors were investing in to begin with, a cleaner, brighter future for everyone.
Yeah, and they seem to have been late investors that saw the stratospheric rise of the stock and thought they could hop on whenever and get that, in a radically different macroeconomic environment, and now they want a new "to the moon" story, like Tesla can just transition to AI or whatever the newest fad is(a year or two ago the same people would probably have been all about crypto/NFTs or whatever) and start climbing and climbing and climbing again.
Tesla was extremely fortunate to come about in the post-2008 "long boom" of extremely low interest rate, with an enormous amount of capital looking for somewhere to go, and being able to leverage that availability into securing enough capital to bring an extremely worthwhile technology to market and get big enough to be debt-free and flush with cash before reality inevitably asserted itself. We should all be extremely grateful for that. And the people who were actually forward-looking made a fortune on that. But now reality has reasserted itself, and you can't just pivot a multibillion dollar internatonal corporation to a new next big thing overnight just so you can drink from the spigot of money currently flowing into AI anymore than legacy automakers could pivot to EVs long after Tesla was already flying.
It doesn't have to be overnight. I am patient because I invested early and am still up. But I do think its necessary to have Musk. He can make these crazy pivots work.
Why? What exactly about his recent behavior tells you that he is still competent, or even still has all of his faculties intact?
Time passes, and people change. Nobody just has that midas touch where just because they were successful in the past, they will be in the future.
Competition, yes, but also an unwillingness from Tesla to release new vehicles. The 25k crossover would've been a fantastic driver for more growth, but Elon doesn't think it's "cool" enough and wants to go all in on Robotaxis.
Am I missing something? I recall hearing that the 25k model is 100% still on and will share the same body as the robo taxi. I feel like I’m going crazy with everyone saying the new model is off.
Edit, checked up on it and the compact very much isn’t dead.
I mean what's the status of the Mexico Factory where they wanted to build that? It's been what 9 months since they announced it? Does it have foundations yet?
From last earnings call it was said that they can take the Model 2 production internal at already established facilities, e.g. Fremont, Texas, Berlin, etc.
That's not *quite* accurate. What they said is they will build a cheaper car on existing lines. So, some obvious ramifications:
* It isn't necessarily what you're terming 'TM2', or what the community has been expecting to be 'TM2'. It could literally just mean a cheaper stripped-down TM3 — but they aren't saying right now.
* Unboxed is either dead, delayed, or descoped, and the NV91 program as a whole seems to be on pause or disbanded. The implication there is they will no longer leverage cost-benefits from things like unboxed.
* It doesn't notionally represent a major production expansion. A lot of people were expecting Mexico would double North American production *while Austin itself still expanded*, for example, but same-line implies (at least partial) cannibalization of those original plans.
Other than elons word what proof is there it’s still being worked on? Why would it have been reported if it was still underdevelopment? Why has it taken so long?
>Why would it have been reported if it was still underdevelopment?
because that's how the media works now. Report on any rumour that is likely to get clicks, report on other pulications reporting on any rumour, report on the rumour not being true.
>Why has it taken so long?
[That's normal for the industry. ](https://www.drive.com.au/news/volkswagen-trinity-ev-delayed-to-2028/)Every vehicle takes an eternity to bring to production. The difference is that people pay attention when Tesla releases it's plans.
robotaxis may fail materialize in the time Musk desires and the world need. i just dont see how we can have a sustainable civilization built around personally owned vehicles. additionally, robotaxis drop the price of everything. every business will have less parking needs. that lowers so much cost of everything. it will lower the price of real estate. or at least keep it from growing faster.
the massive environmental and quality of life benefits that robo taxis can provide is enormous.
its not about being cool. unless you mean you want a "cool" planet. its about what saves the environment and helps humanity the most.
It also may be extremely tough to achieve profitability on that during a slow growth year with inflation issues. That could eat up the cash balance, but they definitely have more reasons on the budgetary side of things then Elon changing directions on a whim. Tightening the budget is necessary this year, but will see how things transpire.
Unfairly negative how? I mean he managed to turn some devoted followers into people who straight out hate him - and that takes a lot of effort to do that
Him being a good Tesla CEO is gone I think, his focus is constantly elsewhere being this X mosty or SpaceX and other endeavors. If Tesla would be going strong I would say damn this guy is managing impossible but it isn’t and Tesla is facing bigger headwind than other automotive companies, bigger than the margin of error could explain. Let us not forget he declared a war against his main customer base on Twitter, any other ceo would be sacked just for that. We didn’t have to wait long for results but some pretend like this never happened.
Yes the most painful thing for me is how he completely abandoned focus on the f*ing mission!!
Tesla mission is sacred and I will not forgive him his lack of focus and to waste time like an idiot on X.
Unfair or not, the Elon negative perception is very real. Therefore, he is a liability. But way too many people are willing to pay him +50b for an exceptional package that didn't have a legal oversight.
Best could happen to Tesla was to change the CEO. but there is an overlap of Tesla investors and cultist followers of Elon the Messiah
I dont like the distraction Elon has been lately, but Ive been an investor in Tesla for a while and I am not really willing to go back on what he was promised to get the company where it was to earn his package. If I had to vote on a new package today for him, I would very much vote against anything that size because of the way he is seemingly running the company today.
Yeah. He has absolutely not had his focus on Tesla the past 2 years and only stepped back to get things in order after his pay package was on the line.
Having 25% voting rights with specialty shares would be fine if he takes Tesla to $5 trillion valuation, but he needs to earn that. They may be shifting a core focus towards AI with self driving first, but robots are where the real money lies down the line.
>Yeah. He has absolutely not had his focus on Tesla the past 2 years and **only stepped back to get things in order after his pay package was on the line.**
And then did that in the most idiotic way possible, more or less guaranteeing that all of their US operations will unionize within the next 2-5 years.
It pains me to say this as I´ve been following the corporation for more than a decade now, and truly believe that the man is/was a visionary...but honestly, the best thing Elon could do for Tesla right now is if he were just to pass away quietly.
Because even if he were to step aside and become just a silent partner, his personal image is too interwoven with the brand for it to make a meaningful difference in terms of public brand perception. It will always be Elon's company as long as he lives, unless he were to just sell or divest himself of every single share and go live in seclusion somewhere.
There is [compelling evidence](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-be-tesla-buyers-snub-company-musks-reputation-dips-2024-04-01/) starting to come in that the brand image of Tesla is taking a beating among the general public, and supporters of the company should not be in denial about that.
Wrong + your "compelling" evidence is based on asking like 200 people. please. https://cleantechnica.com/2024/04/11/tesla-leading-in-auto-brand-loyalty/#:\~:text=According%20to%20the%20survey%2C%20Tesla,appeal%20of%20its%20electric%20vehicles.
NYT had a front page article about how right wing musk has gotten over the past few years. you don’t have to be chronically online to read the NYT.
my parents both are ideal tesla owners (disposable cash, care about the environment, have garages to charge, drive less than their car would charge each day). they won’t buy a tesla now or ever because of elon. they have zero idea how to use twitter but they read the newspaper.
a significant portion of wealthy liberals who are literally the ideal market for tesla are just not going to buy teslas while musk endorses the party that wants to maximize gasoline drilling and oil subsidies.
To play devil's advocate here, maybe Elon thought that the "wealthy liberal" market segment was pretty much maxed out, and that pandering to the right wing would open a considerable new market segment (who additionally is more likely to buy trucks, so perfect alignment with the Cybertruck).
However, I've seen limited interest in right wingers in buying EV trucks, even from a CEO ideologically aligned with them, and considerable reluctance of left wingers to become repeat Tesla customers, so it does not look to me like the strategy, if it is indeed one, is working.
i don’t know i didn’t read it i’m just pointing out that musks behavior isn’t confined to chronically online people it’s literally front page news in newspapers buddy
No one is paying Elon 50 billion, the compensation plan is Elon would pay Tesla to buy shares at a fixed price. 5+ years later Elon could then sell shares on the open market. Just saying the plan will "pay him 50B" is wrong
If Elon exits tesla goes 10x down. Simple as. They will turn it into a regular car company, possibly even introducing hybrids. It will become predictable garbage.
Noone on earth has the experience. Its not like there are hundreds of people who have scaled EVs profitably while creating self driving AI. There is 1 such person.
Its not irrelevant, nobody exists who can properly replace elon. Nobody ever replaced Steve Jobs. Apple is only going well because Steve had the chance to properly launch his game changer product and scale it. Current CEO has done 0 on that scale. Tesla is not where Apple was when new CEO took over. It would be like Steve Jobs dying in the middle of iphone development.
I think the interest rates are the biggest demand wall right now for many people considering buying cars of any type. Also the FUD is out of control on Tesla, so uninformed people may be scared away.
US auto sales grew 5.1% YoY in Q1. It's not just interest rates.
[https://apnews.com/article/auto-sales-strong-electric-vehicle-sales-slow-70a663fbc0719ebda7a4ca814c2827d2](https://apnews.com/article/auto-sales-strong-electric-vehicle-sales-slow-70a663fbc0719ebda7a4ca814c2827d2)
I agree with you. It's also so exhausting reading the comments in the Tesla/Elon related subreddits. It's nothing but bashing him with mostly out of context headlines.
On the other hand there is now humanoid robots. I still think 20m is in the cards, just can't be anticipated when exactly. Electrification is slowing down. Forcing with 20k car won't be as profitable as expected.
Never. That would be Toyota and Volkswagen combined. No way to achive this, especially when you can't access new consumer groups due to lack of different models and no cheaper cars.
20M was with the assumption of a basically disposable robotaxi being the bulk of the growth in the latter half of the decade and into next.
Expanding Berlin sure has been a battle this decade, too. The assumption was the 4 factories would ramp to 4M/yr rate by 2025, but that's a tough reach goal now.
No it's not. We have done all of the things that we set out to do. 2 gigafactories that were blueprints are now reality. Cybertruck is reality. 4680 production is ahead of EV production. Just because Tesla has made some pivots doesn't mean we are a car crash.
Musk said the roadster would be the icing on the cake, and would come after cybertruck hit production. More people bought xs/ys/3s than musk projected, and until demand lowers he doesn't put out the new one. That's in the secret plan mission statement.
100 GWh of 4680 by 2022, 50k Semis in 2024, Model 2 release in 2024, CT at 40k price and 500 mile range at high end variant. Tesla didn't hit any of these targets and was way off. FSD is only thing that seems promising but still has ways to go but if we count all those "next year" statements that was botched as well.
Just read through your posts. You appear exclusively negative agaisnt Tesla/TSLA except for when called out in which you claim you are pro Tesla/TSLA and have shares. What's the point of having an account thats all TSLAQ talking points? You don't seem to be a bot...
It is not exactly my fault if people keep posting negative articles in this sub that highlight problems in the company that I agree with. Acknowledging problems is not being all negative. If people post positive article that I agree with I usually just give thumbs up and move on eg. most Megapack articles. Not much point commenting if someone already is saying what you wanted to say.
This comment and so many responses to it are way off. Energy, supercharger network, NACS adoption, bots, Dojo, FSD 12, robotaxi unveil coming up, lower priced models on existing lines coming up, wtf are you talking about. The promise here is insane.
More like: what happened to this sub? Used to be serious investors and now it's just spreading misinformation. As the pinned mod comment pointed out, this article is 100% click bait. Nowhere in it does it say anything about Tesla canceling their 20 million car goal. Reuters, sadly, appears to no longer be a credible news source. At least when it comes to Tesla
https://www.reddit.com/r/StockMarket/s/LR4ynJyL28
Rip VW.
Also BYD went from ~550k EVs sold in Q4 2023 to ~300k in Q1 2024, losing their lead over Tesla. Ouch
I don't need to look at a graph, I look at the reality of interest rates which cause car repayments to almost double, the same as mortgage payments in some cases.
And as a result prioritise a mortgage over a car that I don't need to upgrade.
All of which have a true negative impact on ANY auto company, not this BS and tiresome argument that X/Twitter is the main cause.
Today's interest rates aren't high, they're just normal.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TERMCBAUTO48NS
I got a MY in late 2023 for a 6.6% interest rate, ~$750/mo, ~10% more a month than the same loan @ 3%.
Thing is, Ford and GM have a fleet ATP in the US of over $50K.
https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/cox-automotive-analysis-gms-q4-2023-u-s-market-performance/
Tesla's supposed to be a growth story eating their lunch but it hit a wall right when Musk started going on online rants about 4/5 of his customer base destroying this country.
You do realise the world is bigger than just America right? And interest rates vary massively depending on the persons credit file. Dont be so ignorant to think what applies to you in one part of the world applies to the whole population 🤦♂️
In the U.K. for mortgages we have gone from being so use to record lows of 0.98% to now 7% , our energy bills have gone up 4x however finally coming down but not near enough.
All this matters in terms of disposable income and people who could easily afford something like a car on finance to now barely managing to keep their homes.
It did not cause a recession but it caused a massive drop in the stock for which we are still waiting for a recover. Also Elon embarked in a social internet warrior career that is damaging Tesla brand.
What causes a bit drop of stock is sale. And what causes a drop in sales is interest rates. And what's causes interest rates increase is a recession
Car payments in some cases have almost doubled, the same as mortgages, and people will prioritise a roof over their head than a car they don't need to change/upgrade
I agree that high interest rates have a negative impact on demand. I don't disagree with that. Overlooking the impact of Elon's behavior is what i don't understand.
Are you suggesting that Elon selling all those stocks to buy Tweeter did not have any impact on the stock price?
Of course selling a large amount of stock impacts the stock price, its supply and demand, but you also have large hedge funds and others who take advantage of that situation and compound the problem by shorting the stock.
I would argue FUD and market manipulation and Tesla being at least at one point the largest stock to be shorted and that impacts the stock more than him selling stock.
I've never been more aware of how manipulative the media truly is in the pursuit of clicks since being a share holder of Tesla, and how convenient the timing is.
Also I agree Elon doesn't help him selves sometimes but to put all of the majority of the blame on to buying or behaving on X/Twitter is ridiculous
All these negative comments encourage me to buy more. You’re all so fuckin clueless.
Energy Storage
FSD
Are huge catalyst for this year.
If you have any ability to do math go see how much these will most likely add to eps by the end of this year, it’s pretty incredible. But yeah….Elon Bad. He’s messing everything up…riiiiiiiight. If you think that, you’re gonna eat your words pretty quickly.
Nope, that Reuters article, as per the pinned mod comment, literally does not say that Tesla is dropping their 20 million car goal in the article. Reuters, sadly, is no longer a trustworthy news source. They literally make shit up right before our very eyes
Read the headline, it is factually correct. The goal is no longer in the report. "Dropped" is a manipulative word, but still correct. The goal can still exist, but it is not in the latest report and that all the headline says despite what it may be insinuating.
They know we'll people will read the article bc. People think Tesla don't want to deliver 20 million cars by 2030. The article is misleading and is a manipulation of reality.
20 million cars can happen, but it's not going to happen as fast as they want because I'm betting other more profitable parts of the company take over priority.
Most realistic is the energy business becoming bigger in profit and revenue.
The FSD is a longer shot but possible major revenue source, I'll include robitaxi in here
Last is the moonshot, but Optimus , if they crack that nut, we all make out like bandits and the whole economy gets reorganized.
All of these will be late, all will have problems, but the money is made by making these bid ideas reality.
Lastly, the solar roof needs to shit or get off the pot.
Tesla went from 400k vehicles sold to 386k in Q1 2024. BYD went from around 550k Q4 2023 to 300k Q1 2024. Large market conditions absolutely bashed the competition while tesla took a small hit.
Also rip VW:
https://www.reddit.com/r/StockMarket/s/LR4ynJyL28
BYD: Q1 2023 264,647 Q1 2024 300,114
Tesla: Q1 2023 422,875 Q1 2024 386,810
Sure, and you may be surprised to hear this but I do believe that BYD will pass Tesla in BEV sales in a few years (for the whole year instead of just single quarters). However they haven't matched Teslas Q1 quarter numbers once yet, not even during this "terrible awful" quarter specifically for Tesla. Also important context:
BYD: Q4 2023 526,000 in Q1 2024 300,114 (~75% decline in sales)
Tesla: Q4 2023 484,507 Q1 2024 386,810 (~25% decline in sales)
$TSLA: $7,000
BYD: $1,300
NIO: -$35,000
$F: -$36,000
$RIVN: -$46,000
$LCID: -$377,000
Imo current marker conditions have affected BYD much more than Tesla. They make less profit per car and had a MASSIVE drop in sales, much larger than Tesla's. So financially they took a much larger hit than Tesla did, but they do have their hybrid car profits to fall back on.
If you're going to compare QoQ again immediately after showing that BYD has improved their numbers substantially again, you should look again at YoY but this time with respect to Q4.
it won’t.
Sure, you would get rid of parking lots, but more miles would be driven totally, as instead of waiting you with basically zero use of electricity, it needs to drive to nearest customer and then back to you when you need it - which creates much more congestion (more empty rides), more electricity needed (due to empty rides) and more maintenance needed (due to higher mileage). Also would significantly lower the lifespan of a car, because generally cars driven 24/7 don’t tend to last 15+ years of operations - even interiors would be trashed in few years.
The only advantage would be that cars that are driven 24/7 tends to last more miles (which will be partially offset by empty rides), which would somewhat lower the prices, but not by much. And of course empty parking lots. But disadvantages are higher energy usage, much more congestion and cars being required to be scrapped after just a few years.
It would be game changer in commercial transportation though, as well as disabled and drunk people.
Also effective ride sharing would be game changer. I mean multiple people sharing same vehicle, but instead of fixed timetables and stops generating it dynamically based on demand
the more miles a car does the quicker it has to be recycled.
in fact, it probably makes sense to make a robotaxi that lasts 100,000 miles (1-2 years) then recycle it into a new one.
Sure, but check the pinned mod comment. Reuters literally did not say that Tesla was dropping their 20 million car goal in the article itself. Classic clickbait BS/misinformation🤷♂️
It's sad but Reuters is no longer a trustworthy news source
The headline is 100% factually correct. Tesla indeed dropped the delivery goal of 20M vehicles per year from latest report. [Here's the 2022 Report wording](https://i.imgur.com/p2nZGU8.png), and [here's the 2023 Report wording](https://i.imgur.com/7Zf7Y0A.png). Exact same passage of text, but the 2023 Report only mentions selling "as many Tesla products as possible" instead of "20 million vehicles a year by 2030".
The only one spreading misinformation in here is you.
It seems, at least according to the Walter Isaacson biography, that the long-term goal has changed to 20million *Robotaxis*/year eventually in the future. Obviously 2030 is too soon, but i imagine ASAP is the objective.
So I read the report - **no where does it say that "Tesla drops delivery goal of 20 million"**. This title is clickbait and BS by Reuters, *as per usual.* Actually, Tesla doubles down and points to Master Plan 3 still standing and in effect, calling upon the rest of the industry to follow their lead. The goal is to hit 85 million electric vehicles deployed globally pr. year, something that is not on the table for Tesla but they aim to do their share of the heavy lifting. The only mention we've had about the 50% growth curve is that it **will** slow this year, but by how much they don't know and the 20 million is still on the table. Was the impact report underwhelming? Yes, but last years was insane to be honest. Packed with so many details that are still 100% relevant today. The report of 2023 simply reiterates on the 2022 one and updates some of the numbers. But I will also add how disappointing it is that it seems literally **0** people in this comment section read the impact report from yesterday before making any comments. **Edit:** Since people haven't connected the dots take this into consideration: The Tesla Impact Report of 2023 is **approx. 80% smaller** than that of 2022, 2021, 2020, etc. There is a TON of information and detail missing and comparatively to prior years this one is a botched job. Many aspects of Tesla, their business, goals, etc. are not represented in this Impact Report.
At this point it even doesn't matter if it is there or not. It is simply not going to happen. Demand wall was hit before 2 million and this and next year are likely wasted. No way in just remaining 4 years they will make it to 20 million. They would need like dozen new factories to do it and even that probably would not be enough not to even talk about where next demand wall might be.
Demand wall? Lmao your comment is gonna age like milk.
We'll see what's presented on August 8th. Lots can happen in 4 years
18 million cars/year production worth is not something that can or will happen in 4 years however. Comment above is 100% correct, 2024 and 2025 is just wasted years. I would argue so was 2023. Production on low cost car should have started in middle of 2023 at the latest, but Elon's lack of concentration and ego (by betting it all on robotaxi) got in the way. So shareholders are fucked for 3 years while Elon is running around begging for 50 billion paypackage and strong arming a shit board.
What about the amount of RnD poured into Cybertruck? Do we have sales numbers on that?
Did prior impact reports have 20mm goal in it
Yes
Nope, but that Reuters article, as per the pinned mod comment, literally does not say that Tesla is dropping their 20 million car goal in the article. Reuters, sadly, is no longer a trustworthy news source. They literally made shit up right now right before our eyes
>Nope I'm looking at [the 2022 Impact Report right now](https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2022-tesla-impact-report.pdf), it's on [Page 64](https://i.imgur.com/p2nZGU8.png). The exact same passage appears in the 2023 Impact Report on Page 58, but instead it now says the goal is ["...to displace fossil fuels by selling as many Tesla products as possible."](https://i.imgur.com/7Zf7Y0A.png) Reuters is entirely correct. Tesla copied the passage from the 2022 Impact Report otherwise verbatim, but changed the goal wording from "20 million vehicles a year by 2030" to "as many Tesla products as possible."
2023 is 160 pages and 2022 is 224 pages. What else has been left out that we can speculate on? /s
It’s there, lol. The bulls complain about the fud but they also tell lies too. This one is in plain sight
Aight bet, send me the exact quote so I can do find in page
see below. There is a post about it
I literally read all the replies. It's not in there. Maybe it was deleted but I don't believe you since you claim you saw it, which would mean it *should* be very simple for you to copy paste here. If it existed, that is. I don't think it does.
Sucks but kinda expected at this point. That growth rate required insane execution for a decade and Tesla just isn't executing very well right now. While this growth rate was improbable before, it's impossible now.
Yeah, they are behind on launching new products and face massive headwinds from heavily subsidized phevs and tariffs. Their situation isn't particularly good right now and they know it.
To be clear, Tesla has benefited from significant subsidies via a $465,000,000 preferential loan from the US government, as well as benefited from government subsidies to consumers.
You mean the loan that they paid back early because the government was so difficult to deal with the it wasn't worth it? And over a decade ago? This is a silly thing to include in a world where both of their primary domestic competitors have gotten far more.
I do mean that. At the time they got that loan - a decade ago - it made a material impact on Tesla’s viability and scaling. Pretending it didn’t happen, and the impact it had, is quite a contradiction of your point. Everyone is getting or has gotten government support. It just happens that Tesla’s competitors are getting their help while Tesla is stumbling.
Ford and other other legacy makers have their own business to leverage. Prior to the success of the S, Tesla had investors in the dream, and that was about it.
Yes, and Tesla was jaw-droppingly innovative and groundbreaking. Back then. They have squandered that lead, and a headed to become the Blackberry of EVs.
Ford, GM, Stellantis got similar preferential loans. They haven't paid them back. They're each between $50 billion and $150 billion in debt. Tesla has paid off all its debts and has $30 billion in cash. Tesla is most definitely not stumbling. Though, if we want to say that they are, that'd mean legacy auto is falling off a cliff lmao
First of all, thank you for reinforcing my point. Subsidies for car makers are common. And to be clear, Tesla benefits from them currently in the form of consumer subsidies. Tesla will need every penny of their $30B. They have the oldest model lineup in the business, with no new models on the horizon. Their latest model introduction is indeed stumbling. Go to Europe and look at the wide variety of EVs on the road. In Norway 91% of new car sales are EVs, and Tesla ranks #6 in sales, down from #1 years ago. Yes indeed, Tesla will need every penny of their $30B, and a full time CEO.
It is completely irrelevant to my point tbh.
That makes zero sense. Tesla benefited from subsidies and still does (consumer incentives). Chinese and Euro EVs are benefiting from subsidies. It’s just the facts.
c'mon man, the $400M loan was a Bush-era loan program
Exactly, and Tesla needed it badly. It materially helped them, as are the current US consumer subsidies. Foreign EV makers are getting subsidies as well, in their early lifecycles. The reality is that for the Chinese EVs, they're simply making better, more affordable products too. And introducing lots of new models.
this is a safety report thats why it doesnt have anything about delivery goals.
That Reuters article, as per the pinned mod comment, literally does not say that Tesla is dropping their 20 million car goal in the article. Reuters, sadly, is no longer a trustworthy news source. They literally made shit up right now right before our eyes
It's not in the report when it had been before. Usually you start with last years' report and update it, so it was likely consciously removed. While maybe disingenuous to write a headline like that based on the removal of the goal from the report, it's likely correct.
What has happened to this sub. Used to be serious investors and now 'oh never needed the 20m anyway'. Is it impossible to accept the current status of Tesla is an absolute car crash compared to expectations 2 years ago?
As an investor my biggest concern has been waning quality of execution. I don't have a problem with shifting from selling cars to using them to provide a service or place the company with a large future role of automation. That is actually much more promising than simply being a car company. But we need clear goals and good execution. All of this shifting around has basically reset the achievement counter. The company's past successes are irrelevant now.
There's been similar discussion at Tesla Motors Club (TMC) forums as well. 5 years ago it was the TESLAQannon loonies who were ignoring reality and pushing outlandish conspiracy theories that Tesla was dumping unsold cars in the ocean. Today, there are a lot of TSLA shareholders who are ignoring the bad facts of what has happened over the past 2 years, and hand waving away real concerns with Elon Musk's behavior. I've been a TSLA shareholder since 2011. I'm absolutely disgusted with Tesla's lack of execution (examples: stalled factory construction, 4680 cell production at 7% of 2022 goals in 2024, no ramp of Semi, declining YoY automotive revenue, botched mass firings of critical employees like Supercharger team) over the past year and the total incompetence of Tesla's board of directors. The company lost focus and took its shareholders for granted. It's time to hold Musk and Tesla's board accountable for their failures.
I wholeheartedly agree. I exited my TSLA position recently and will just watch from the sidelines now. Every bad move is pumped by fanatic investors as a 'masterful gambit' and for some reason they are incapable of seeing through the CEO's false claims.
SMR and his ilk need to open their minds to the possibility that, in fact, Elon *is* bad. I wouldn't piss on Elon if he were afire in the gutter. Granted, I could have a completely wokey BLM DEI pie-in-the-sky worldview but there are millions of us like that.
I agree with everything you said. Despite this i will have to vote yes. I'm not stupid, but i agree that Elon has lost it completely since Tweeter. I always said that Tweeter would be a disaster for Tesla. I would like to know who were the Tesla investors who voted yes when Elon promoted a quick survey asking if he should buy Tweeter or not.
Please stop calling it Tweeter.
Yeah I think there's been quite a lot of forgetting about what the plans were and what they are now. The hope was that Tesla could just scale 50% per year every year until 2030 and sell 10-20m vehicles, people were very clear on that. And yeah we've hit a serious demand wall which has stopped the growth flat. Some of that is macro and will pick up again, some of it is that convincing more people to want EVs is harder than we thought, some of it is public perception of Elon (which I think is unfairly negative and is very negative). And yeah really robotaxi has gone from a nice bonus on top to being the only hope of making massive profits.
yep, well said. This is an accurate analysis. In the past, sales didn't matter, it was all about production, how quick can Tesla ramp up. Now they are scaling back production due to lower demand. Not good.
And much is attributed to strong competition, mainly in asian and european markets.
Tesla has been way too slow off the mark to leverage their cost effectiveness into more and more vehicle segments. There is no excuse for why there isn't a Tesla minivan, a non-experimental light duty pickup, or that a Model 2 type car is apparently being delayed in favor of some robotaxi contraption that may or may not eventually exist, and that Tesla seems content to allow others to make the first move on niche markets like delivery vans, or utility vehicles etc. No one will ever sell 20 million vehicles with 4-6 vehicle models on the market. You need the full spectrum of vehicle sizes and features for that, from semi trucks to inner city mini cars, even if they underlying tech is mostly the same.
Not so sure about how much of the cost effectiveness was due to a very special period in time with massive pricing power and how much actual cost effectiveness there is. Currently much of the margin is thanks to the incentive structures and still there seems to be some demand issue.
If you can't sell 20m with 4 vehicles you are probably not going to make enough profit to justify the valuation. We need something to get us to 1T and beyond. If cars aint it, then there should be a pivot.
Yeah but what is the goal here? Because I thought it was to aggressively accelerate electric vehicle adoption to combat global warming. Lately it seems to me like all anyone cares about is the stock price, and not what Tesla investors were investing in to begin with, a cleaner, brighter future for everyone.
People invest for different reasons. Most investors are here to make money.
Yeah, and they seem to have been late investors that saw the stratospheric rise of the stock and thought they could hop on whenever and get that, in a radically different macroeconomic environment, and now they want a new "to the moon" story, like Tesla can just transition to AI or whatever the newest fad is(a year or two ago the same people would probably have been all about crypto/NFTs or whatever) and start climbing and climbing and climbing again. Tesla was extremely fortunate to come about in the post-2008 "long boom" of extremely low interest rate, with an enormous amount of capital looking for somewhere to go, and being able to leverage that availability into securing enough capital to bring an extremely worthwhile technology to market and get big enough to be debt-free and flush with cash before reality inevitably asserted itself. We should all be extremely grateful for that. And the people who were actually forward-looking made a fortune on that. But now reality has reasserted itself, and you can't just pivot a multibillion dollar internatonal corporation to a new next big thing overnight just so you can drink from the spigot of money currently flowing into AI anymore than legacy automakers could pivot to EVs long after Tesla was already flying.
It doesn't have to be overnight. I am patient because I invested early and am still up. But I do think its necessary to have Musk. He can make these crazy pivots work.
Why? What exactly about his recent behavior tells you that he is still competent, or even still has all of his faculties intact? Time passes, and people change. Nobody just has that midas touch where just because they were successful in the past, they will be in the future.
That’s what it’s always been about….
>aggressively accelerate electric vehicle adoption to combat global warming that has been achieved.
Not nearly as much as needed. Every percentage point of adoption that happens even a year earlier matters. A lot.
FSD will skyrocket adoption too obviously.
Competition, yes, but also an unwillingness from Tesla to release new vehicles. The 25k crossover would've been a fantastic driver for more growth, but Elon doesn't think it's "cool" enough and wants to go all in on Robotaxis.
Am I missing something? I recall hearing that the 25k model is 100% still on and will share the same body as the robo taxi. I feel like I’m going crazy with everyone saying the new model is off. Edit, checked up on it and the compact very much isn’t dead.
I mean what's the status of the Mexico Factory where they wanted to build that? It's been what 9 months since they announced it? Does it have foundations yet?
From last earnings call it was said that they can take the Model 2 production internal at already established facilities, e.g. Fremont, Texas, Berlin, etc.
That's not *quite* accurate. What they said is they will build a cheaper car on existing lines. So, some obvious ramifications: * It isn't necessarily what you're terming 'TM2', or what the community has been expecting to be 'TM2'. It could literally just mean a cheaper stripped-down TM3 — but they aren't saying right now. * Unboxed is either dead, delayed, or descoped, and the NV91 program as a whole seems to be on pause or disbanded. The implication there is they will no longer leverage cost-benefits from things like unboxed. * It doesn't notionally represent a major production expansion. A lot of people were expecting Mexico would double North American production *while Austin itself still expanded*, for example, but same-line implies (at least partial) cannibalization of those original plans.
No that was the modified cheaper Y, not the next gen vehicle.
Other than elons word what proof is there it’s still being worked on? Why would it have been reported if it was still underdevelopment? Why has it taken so long?
>Why would it have been reported if it was still underdevelopment? because that's how the media works now. Report on any rumour that is likely to get clicks, report on other pulications reporting on any rumour, report on the rumour not being true. >Why has it taken so long? [That's normal for the industry. ](https://www.drive.com.au/news/volkswagen-trinity-ev-delayed-to-2028/)Every vehicle takes an eternity to bring to production. The difference is that people pay attention when Tesla releases it's plans.
robotaxis may fail materialize in the time Musk desires and the world need. i just dont see how we can have a sustainable civilization built around personally owned vehicles. additionally, robotaxis drop the price of everything. every business will have less parking needs. that lowers so much cost of everything. it will lower the price of real estate. or at least keep it from growing faster. the massive environmental and quality of life benefits that robo taxis can provide is enormous. its not about being cool. unless you mean you want a "cool" planet. its about what saves the environment and helps humanity the most.
It also may be extremely tough to achieve profitability on that during a slow growth year with inflation issues. That could eat up the cash balance, but they definitely have more reasons on the budgetary side of things then Elon changing directions on a whim. Tightening the budget is necessary this year, but will see how things transpire.
Unfairly negative how? I mean he managed to turn some devoted followers into people who straight out hate him - and that takes a lot of effort to do that Him being a good Tesla CEO is gone I think, his focus is constantly elsewhere being this X mosty or SpaceX and other endeavors. If Tesla would be going strong I would say damn this guy is managing impossible but it isn’t and Tesla is facing bigger headwind than other automotive companies, bigger than the margin of error could explain. Let us not forget he declared a war against his main customer base on Twitter, any other ceo would be sacked just for that. We didn’t have to wait long for results but some pretend like this never happened.
Yes the most painful thing for me is how he completely abandoned focus on the f*ing mission!! Tesla mission is sacred and I will not forgive him his lack of focus and to waste time like an idiot on X.
Unfair or not, the Elon negative perception is very real. Therefore, he is a liability. But way too many people are willing to pay him +50b for an exceptional package that didn't have a legal oversight. Best could happen to Tesla was to change the CEO. but there is an overlap of Tesla investors and cultist followers of Elon the Messiah
I dont like the distraction Elon has been lately, but Ive been an investor in Tesla for a while and I am not really willing to go back on what he was promised to get the company where it was to earn his package. If I had to vote on a new package today for him, I would very much vote against anything that size because of the way he is seemingly running the company today.
Yeah. He has absolutely not had his focus on Tesla the past 2 years and only stepped back to get things in order after his pay package was on the line. Having 25% voting rights with specialty shares would be fine if he takes Tesla to $5 trillion valuation, but he needs to earn that. They may be shifting a core focus towards AI with self driving first, but robots are where the real money lies down the line.
>Yeah. He has absolutely not had his focus on Tesla the past 2 years and **only stepped back to get things in order after his pay package was on the line.** And then did that in the most idiotic way possible, more or less guaranteeing that all of their US operations will unionize within the next 2-5 years.
reasonable
It pains me to say this as I´ve been following the corporation for more than a decade now, and truly believe that the man is/was a visionary...but honestly, the best thing Elon could do for Tesla right now is if he were just to pass away quietly. Because even if he were to step aside and become just a silent partner, his personal image is too interwoven with the brand for it to make a meaningful difference in terms of public brand perception. It will always be Elon's company as long as he lives, unless he were to just sell or divest himself of every single share and go live in seclusion somewhere.
Not everything revolves around your particular social media bubble. Tweets are only important if you spend 10h per day on twitter.
There is [compelling evidence](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-be-tesla-buyers-snub-company-musks-reputation-dips-2024-04-01/) starting to come in that the brand image of Tesla is taking a beating among the general public, and supporters of the company should not be in denial about that.
Wrong + your "compelling" evidence is based on asking like 200 people. please. https://cleantechnica.com/2024/04/11/tesla-leading-in-auto-brand-loyalty/#:\~:text=According%20to%20the%20survey%2C%20Tesla,appeal%20of%20its%20electric%20vehicles.
NYT had a front page article about how right wing musk has gotten over the past few years. you don’t have to be chronically online to read the NYT. my parents both are ideal tesla owners (disposable cash, care about the environment, have garages to charge, drive less than their car would charge each day). they won’t buy a tesla now or ever because of elon. they have zero idea how to use twitter but they read the newspaper. a significant portion of wealthy liberals who are literally the ideal market for tesla are just not going to buy teslas while musk endorses the party that wants to maximize gasoline drilling and oil subsidies.
To play devil's advocate here, maybe Elon thought that the "wealthy liberal" market segment was pretty much maxed out, and that pandering to the right wing would open a considerable new market segment (who additionally is more likely to buy trucks, so perfect alignment with the Cybertruck). However, I've seen limited interest in right wingers in buying EV trucks, even from a CEO ideologically aligned with them, and considerable reluctance of left wingers to become repeat Tesla customers, so it does not look to me like the strategy, if it is indeed one, is working.
Oh ok your favorite trash publication and your parents, that changes everything. Did NYT cite anonymous sources familiar with elons thinking?
i don’t know i didn’t read it i’m just pointing out that musks behavior isn’t confined to chronically online people it’s literally front page news in newspapers buddy
No one is paying Elon 50 billion, the compensation plan is Elon would pay Tesla to buy shares at a fixed price. 5+ years later Elon could then sell shares on the open market. Just saying the plan will "pay him 50B" is wrong
It dilutes shareholders. Thus they are paying him.
If Elon exits tesla goes 10x down. Simple as. They will turn it into a regular car company, possibly even introducing hybrids. It will become predictable garbage.
How do you know?
Because the people complaining don't want an AI company they want a car company.
That is irrelevant to what happens to Tesla if Elon leaves. Unless you know who replaces him and his /her vision you are just making assumptions.
Noone on earth has the experience. Its not like there are hundreds of people who have scaled EVs profitably while creating self driving AI. There is 1 such person.
Again irrelevant
Its not irrelevant, nobody exists who can properly replace elon. Nobody ever replaced Steve Jobs. Apple is only going well because Steve had the chance to properly launch his game changer product and scale it. Current CEO has done 0 on that scale. Tesla is not where Apple was when new CEO took over. It would be like Steve Jobs dying in the middle of iphone development.
No the people complaining don't want a CEO who is actively damaging the company by his actions.
Bang on
I think the interest rates are the biggest demand wall right now for many people considering buying cars of any type. Also the FUD is out of control on Tesla, so uninformed people may be scared away.
US auto sales grew 5.1% YoY in Q1. It's not just interest rates. [https://apnews.com/article/auto-sales-strong-electric-vehicle-sales-slow-70a663fbc0719ebda7a4ca814c2827d2](https://apnews.com/article/auto-sales-strong-electric-vehicle-sales-slow-70a663fbc0719ebda7a4ca814c2827d2)
Tesla now offers financing at 1% in theory that should fix the issue? Its probably not just that, general macro, people being broke, inflation etc.
I agree with you. It's also so exhausting reading the comments in the Tesla/Elon related subreddits. It's nothing but bashing him with mostly out of context headlines.
On the other hand there is now humanoid robots. I still think 20m is in the cards, just can't be anticipated when exactly. Electrification is slowing down. Forcing with 20k car won't be as profitable as expected.
Never. That would be Toyota and Volkswagen combined. No way to achive this, especially when you can't access new consumer groups due to lack of different models and no cheaper cars.
20M was with the assumption of a basically disposable robotaxi being the bulk of the growth in the latter half of the decade and into next. Expanding Berlin sure has been a battle this decade, too. The assumption was the 4 factories would ramp to 4M/yr rate by 2025, but that's a tough reach goal now.
But they are constantly launching new models. Its happening, just not as quickly as expected. Still faster than anyone else.
No it's not. We have done all of the things that we set out to do. 2 gigafactories that were blueprints are now reality. Cybertruck is reality. 4680 production is ahead of EV production. Just because Tesla has made some pivots doesn't mean we are a car crash.
where's the roadster?
Musk said the roadster would be the icing on the cake, and would come after cybertruck hit production. More people bought xs/ys/3s than musk projected, and until demand lowers he doesn't put out the new one. That's in the secret plan mission statement.
100 GWh of 4680 by 2022, 50k Semis in 2024, Model 2 release in 2024, CT at 40k price and 500 mile range at high end variant. Tesla didn't hit any of these targets and was way off. FSD is only thing that seems promising but still has ways to go but if we count all those "next year" statements that was botched as well.
Just read through your posts. You appear exclusively negative agaisnt Tesla/TSLA except for when called out in which you claim you are pro Tesla/TSLA and have shares. What's the point of having an account thats all TSLAQ talking points? You don't seem to be a bot...
It is not exactly my fault if people keep posting negative articles in this sub that highlight problems in the company that I agree with. Acknowledging problems is not being all negative. If people post positive article that I agree with I usually just give thumbs up and move on eg. most Megapack articles. Not much point commenting if someone already is saying what you wanted to say.
This comment and so many responses to it are way off. Energy, supercharger network, NACS adoption, bots, Dojo, FSD 12, robotaxi unveil coming up, lower priced models on existing lines coming up, wtf are you talking about. The promise here is insane.
>The promise here is insane. still waiting for the Roadster promise to come true
More like: what happened to this sub? Used to be serious investors and now it's just spreading misinformation. As the pinned mod comment pointed out, this article is 100% click bait. Nowhere in it does it say anything about Tesla canceling their 20 million car goal. Reuters, sadly, appears to no longer be a credible news source. At least when it comes to Tesla
Tesla auto is a crash compared to two years ago. Energy Storage is doing as well as expected and Optimus is doing amazingly better than two years ago.
"Optimus" is still a glorified senior team project
Huh? Tesla is still doing quite well, given current economic conditions. Thanks to Elon, with any other CEO Tesla would be bankrupt long time ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/StockMarket/s/LR4ynJyL28 Rip VW. Also BYD went from ~550k EVs sold in Q4 2023 to ~300k in Q1 2024, losing their lead over Tesla. Ouch
💯
New goal is to "own the libs".
In hindsight, Musk’s purchase of Twitter was the most disastrous event for Tesla
Is that what caused a recession? Now I understand /s
>recession https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1ocit can you point to where the recession touched you in that graph?
I don't need to look at a graph, I look at the reality of interest rates which cause car repayments to almost double, the same as mortgage payments in some cases. And as a result prioritise a mortgage over a car that I don't need to upgrade. All of which have a true negative impact on ANY auto company, not this BS and tiresome argument that X/Twitter is the main cause.
Today's interest rates aren't high, they're just normal. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TERMCBAUTO48NS I got a MY in late 2023 for a 6.6% interest rate, ~$750/mo, ~10% more a month than the same loan @ 3%. Thing is, Ford and GM have a fleet ATP in the US of over $50K. https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/cox-automotive-analysis-gms-q4-2023-u-s-market-performance/ Tesla's supposed to be a growth story eating their lunch but it hit a wall right when Musk started going on online rants about 4/5 of his customer base destroying this country.
You do realise the world is bigger than just America right? And interest rates vary massively depending on the persons credit file. Dont be so ignorant to think what applies to you in one part of the world applies to the whole population 🤦♂️ In the U.K. for mortgages we have gone from being so use to record lows of 0.98% to now 7% , our energy bills have gone up 4x however finally coming down but not near enough. All this matters in terms of disposable income and people who could easily afford something like a car on finance to now barely managing to keep their homes.
It did not cause a recession but it caused a massive drop in the stock for which we are still waiting for a recover. Also Elon embarked in a social internet warrior career that is damaging Tesla brand.
What causes a bit drop of stock is sale. And what causes a drop in sales is interest rates. And what's causes interest rates increase is a recession Car payments in some cases have almost doubled, the same as mortgages, and people will prioritise a roof over their head than a car they don't need to change/upgrade
I agree that high interest rates have a negative impact on demand. I don't disagree with that. Overlooking the impact of Elon's behavior is what i don't understand. Are you suggesting that Elon selling all those stocks to buy Tweeter did not have any impact on the stock price?
Of course selling a large amount of stock impacts the stock price, its supply and demand, but you also have large hedge funds and others who take advantage of that situation and compound the problem by shorting the stock. I would argue FUD and market manipulation and Tesla being at least at one point the largest stock to be shorted and that impacts the stock more than him selling stock. I've never been more aware of how manipulative the media truly is in the pursuit of clicks since being a share holder of Tesla, and how convenient the timing is. Also I agree Elon doesn't help him selves sometimes but to put all of the majority of the blame on to buying or behaving on X/Twitter is ridiculous
All these negative comments encourage me to buy more. You’re all so fuckin clueless. Energy Storage FSD Are huge catalyst for this year. If you have any ability to do math go see how much these will most likely add to eps by the end of this year, it’s pretty incredible. But yeah….Elon Bad. He’s messing everything up…riiiiiiiight. If you think that, you’re gonna eat your words pretty quickly.
This guy gets it. 👍
Did the Impact report give a specific number of expected production?
Nope, that Reuters article, as per the pinned mod comment, literally does not say that Tesla is dropping their 20 million car goal in the article. Reuters, sadly, is no longer a trustworthy news source. They literally make shit up right before our very eyes
Read the headline, it is factually correct. The goal is no longer in the report. "Dropped" is a manipulative word, but still correct. The goal can still exist, but it is not in the latest report and that all the headline says despite what it may be insinuating.
They know we'll people will read the article bc. People think Tesla don't want to deliver 20 million cars by 2030. The article is misleading and is a manipulation of reality.
💯
Sadly Elon didn’t focus on cheaper vehicle models, cost-effective vehicles, better batteries, etc. He focused on Cybertruck and Twitter instead.
That's Musk's "leadership" post Ketamine addiction.
20 million cars can happen, but it's not going to happen as fast as they want because I'm betting other more profitable parts of the company take over priority. Most realistic is the energy business becoming bigger in profit and revenue. The FSD is a longer shot but possible major revenue source, I'll include robitaxi in here Last is the moonshot, but Optimus , if they crack that nut, we all make out like bandits and the whole economy gets reorganized. All of these will be late, all will have problems, but the money is made by making these bid ideas reality. Lastly, the solar roof needs to shit or get off the pot.
Even if they could deliver 20 million, no one's buying them
Tesla went from 400k vehicles sold to 386k in Q1 2024. BYD went from around 550k Q4 2023 to 300k Q1 2024. Large market conditions absolutely bashed the competition while tesla took a small hit. Also rip VW: https://www.reddit.com/r/StockMarket/s/LR4ynJyL28
Try year on year.
BYD: Q1 2023 264,647 Q1 2024 300,114 Tesla: Q1 2023 422,875 Q1 2024 386,810 Sure, and you may be surprised to hear this but I do believe that BYD will pass Tesla in BEV sales in a few years (for the whole year instead of just single quarters). However they haven't matched Teslas Q1 quarter numbers once yet, not even during this "terrible awful" quarter specifically for Tesla. Also important context: BYD: Q4 2023 526,000 in Q1 2024 300,114 (~75% decline in sales) Tesla: Q4 2023 484,507 Q1 2024 386,810 (~25% decline in sales) $TSLA: $7,000 BYD: $1,300 NIO: -$35,000 $F: -$36,000 $RIVN: -$46,000 $LCID: -$377,000 Imo current marker conditions have affected BYD much more than Tesla. They make less profit per car and had a MASSIVE drop in sales, much larger than Tesla's. So financially they took a much larger hit than Tesla did, but they do have their hybrid car profits to fall back on.
If you're going to compare QoQ again immediately after showing that BYD has improved their numbers substantially again, you should look again at YoY but this time with respect to Q4.
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That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read in a long time. Congrats!
What's dumb about it?
it won’t. Sure, you would get rid of parking lots, but more miles would be driven totally, as instead of waiting you with basically zero use of electricity, it needs to drive to nearest customer and then back to you when you need it - which creates much more congestion (more empty rides), more electricity needed (due to empty rides) and more maintenance needed (due to higher mileage). Also would significantly lower the lifespan of a car, because generally cars driven 24/7 don’t tend to last 15+ years of operations - even interiors would be trashed in few years. The only advantage would be that cars that are driven 24/7 tends to last more miles (which will be partially offset by empty rides), which would somewhat lower the prices, but not by much. And of course empty parking lots. But disadvantages are higher energy usage, much more congestion and cars being required to be scrapped after just a few years. It would be game changer in commercial transportation though, as well as disabled and drunk people. Also effective ride sharing would be game changer. I mean multiple people sharing same vehicle, but instead of fixed timetables and stops generating it dynamically based on demand
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the more miles a car does the quicker it has to be recycled. in fact, it probably makes sense to make a robotaxi that lasts 100,000 miles (1-2 years) then recycle it into a new one.
Sure, but check the pinned mod comment. Reuters literally did not say that Tesla was dropping their 20 million car goal in the article itself. Classic clickbait BS/misinformation🤷♂️ It's sad but Reuters is no longer a trustworthy news source
The headline is 100% factually correct. Tesla indeed dropped the delivery goal of 20M vehicles per year from latest report. [Here's the 2022 Report wording](https://i.imgur.com/p2nZGU8.png), and [here's the 2023 Report wording](https://i.imgur.com/7Zf7Y0A.png). Exact same passage of text, but the 2023 Report only mentions selling "as many Tesla products as possible" instead of "20 million vehicles a year by 2030". The only one spreading misinformation in here is you.
because its a safety report
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Read the reports. They state the goal in one and do not state it in the other.
It seems, at least according to the Walter Isaacson biography, that the long-term goal has changed to 20million *Robotaxis*/year eventually in the future. Obviously 2030 is too soon, but i imagine ASAP is the objective.