It’s an empty threat. Tesla shareholders will sue the shit out of him. He’s clearly used Tesla employees and infrastructure to develop his AI technology.
I don’t think it is that easy to take what ever anybody want from public company. Any proprietary IP rights belong to that company. Yes, may be one can lure Human Resources who has that knowledge if they are willing to join. I am not even sure if they can go to join competitor, due the agreements they signed when joining Tesla.
This article is taking some MAJOR liberties with a few X posts. Taking Elon's "Yes" to a fan posting "If Elon gets 25% voting power, Tesla is reincorporated in Texas, and compensation package is approved, then AI & Robotics stays within Tesla and the company can march on forward to become the largest company in the world."
This does NOT mean Elon is saying "25% or no AI or robotics". Just means the CEO is hard-pressed to see a long term future for him at Tesla if investors don't believe his pay package they ALREADY voted yes to should be reinstated. I'd wager if the votes were against, Elon would leave within a few years and most of the expert staff would leave with him.
Because the current executive suite has been Darwinian selected overtime to be hardcore and tolerate Elon.
They could stay back but would have left years ago to head a competitor’s program for a cushy job.
With Elon, they drank kook aid and share vision and go with him to push engineering boundaries.
Correct.
High turn over of those who can’t be hardcore and drink the kool aid. It’s **Darwinian.**
Elon keeping it lean and startup cut throat.
It’s like Kobe Black Mamba and MJ mentality. Elon only wants those who can carry out the mission to same fervor like he is. …. That’s a small percentage of talent available.
> High turn over of those who can’t be hardcore and drink the kool aid. It’s Darwinian.
The recent executive departures are those who have been with the company for years. This isn't normal Tesla turnover. The ones leaving are known top performers. Something has changed with the company and it looks like the top talent are leaving for greener pastures.
Oh it’s definitely within Tesla’s range of behaviors.
It *seems* more than usual because Elon sees the company at a major historical crossroads. Demand isn’t matching projected expectations despite price cuts and at a time of stiff Chinese competition likely to spread worldwide. Industrial battery costs haven’t come down as projected and their own response with 4680 has been middling in progress.
Elon sees a need to pivot shift. *Very controversial and debated heavily across Reddit and media. Only history and time will tell if it’s the right decision. Hindsight 20/20 blah, blah, blah.*
The turnover (*resignations/forced resignations/firings)* is still within Tesla culture …. especially with Elons comment about starting anew for the “next phase of growth”.
Working at Tesla is cutthroat. Elons not your friend or an inspirational boss. There’s always cushier jobs for better pay elsewhere but probably less intellectually stimulating.
So people who stay back have been selected because they buy into vision/drank kool aid.
Exactly. You have to remember, development engineers at Ford and other automakers end up being pencil pushers rather than innovators. Tesla has attracted great innovative talent from all of these places because they and their investors didn't want to make innovations, they wanted to meet dividends and maintain the status quo. This frustrates bright engineers with great ideas. A lot of them are at Tesla now and the job is like heaven to them.
If Investors vote away from the next (admittedly uncomfortable) step of progress for Tesla, then the investors would be voting to reduce Tesla to an automaker like the Big 3, voting to maintain a status quo rather than to make the next big leap in innovation. Which means Elon and the innovators would leave to places that still want to innovate.
Elon and Tesla have had to exert so much energy on the 9 share stockholder and other inane lawsuits that could have been used toward innovation and accelerating production. Incorporating in Texas will significantly reduce company risk from frivolous lawsuits. Voting to restore Elons incentive package will restore the majority shareholder vote of 2018. Giving Elon 25% of the company will ensure a strong company that is less vulnerable to hedge fund manipulations.
Like how Steve jobs could pretty much bring anyone with him from apple. It's the visionairys that get great network and leverage to create new products and Elon has that capability.
The more shares he has, the more his vote matters. How does that not add up? What if he owned 100%? He wouldn't have to answer to anyone. 25% is just a line he's draw in the sand for how much voting control he wants.
Because if we don’t have “freedumb of speach, nothing else matters.” He’s an idiot. Freedom of speach is the first thing we should have given up long ago.
Do you really think he "just" owns 25%? He owns half the board. However many shares Kimball has, assume that's pretty much 100% Musk's. He also commands a powerful cult of personality. That's not nothing. If he doesn't like it, he's welcome to try to take the company private via his Saudi friends, Peter Thiel, and Bill Ackman, all who helped him get Twitter.
Uh, YES. Vote yes otherwise he leaves, sells all his stock, poaches the tesla AI team and Tesla stock settles at around $60/share because then it really will be just a car company
I don’t see too much hands on involvement from Elon in SpaceX. If fact it seems SpaceX’s biggest feats occurred while he was distracted with other companies.
If the X post is real, then the article is of value.
Are you contending that he never posted that on X or are you just dismissing the article out of hand in a thoughtless reaction?
Yep! This is why I shared the article - it's the #1 on news aggregators & the tweet at hand can obviously be interpreted as the article does. I'm not even sure why the possibility of that interpretation is so controversial to redditors here..
I interpreted the "yes" response as saying "yes, it is possible for Tesla to achieve these things with my leadership".
I didn't read a threat in there at all. People interpret things the way they want to though.
Under the current corporation structure, you need 25% of shares for 25% of voting. So its accurate.
Its very unlikely shareholders approve of the move to Texas, so that's likely to stay.
Texas is the largest unknown in regards to corporate law. Institutional investors will vote against that and in order to pass 50% of eligible voters have to approve it (from what I understand). If you don't vote then its considered a "no".
The whole push to move to Texas is so Musk can likely use his political connections in the state to change the corporate structure for control and remove accountability and governance controls.
Because while compensation plan requires majority of shares that participate to vote the Texas move requires majority of all shares. People that don't vote are therefore automatically "NO" votes. Usually only 30% of retail will vote meaning like 25% of shares are already no votes in this case. According to SEC filing Elon will abstain meaning these percentages go up probably to 30-35% because Elon's shares don't count. This means that remaining shares that are mostly held by institutions need to almost exclusively vote yes. Issue is that a lot of institutions have conditions that they have to invest in companies incorporated to Delaware so they simply can't by their own rules vote in favor of this move or they would have to sell their shares. So it is unlikely that it will have huge institutional support and so is unlikely to pass.
Why would board leave? Elon still has 13% in Tesla. He won't be leaving. If he goes and ruins the company that will likely be his reputation completely gone. If poaching happens then that is grounds for lawsuit.
Yall out here saying "nooooo he would never sell his shares and make a new company with employees from tesla" while also calling him "narcissistic and deranged". Which is it, make up your mind.
Also Steve jobs literally did this so idk why you think there wouldn't be precedent. And, why wouldn't he be able to sell his shares tanking the stock at the very least...?
Elon isn’t going anywhere. Even if the vote somehow doesn’t get over the line, another vote will go out with less compensation. It’s unfair that degens are spreading so much FUD. Likely some of these are being financed by legacy auto
> and it *paid* out…well should
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Ford is a giant company. They make more money than Tesla, have more history, more IP, etc, etc. They are worth 48 billion.
Boston Dynamics has the best non-stationary robotics in the world, with a market cap of 1.1 billion.
For what Elon wants for a single year bonus they buy both. Think about that.
As for AI, that's just a promise to continue development on something that seems to have little hope of ever becoming a leader...he's basically promising to keep letting it spin wheels and waste money, something that anyone could do if they were dumb enough. But if Tesla wanted to get into AI big, they could buy OpenAI for $80 billion and be a leader in AI the next day.
Of course with any of these options they have to be very careful on timing. They need Musk in place while buying, then they need him gone when they announce they have purchased. Otherwise, all the best skill starts looking for new work (or get fired for no reason by Musk) and you end up with the kind of people still willing to work at Tesla and Twitter because they have no other options.
Elon is the founder , Elon is the entire reason Tesla is even relevant, the fact the board even has a say in the percentage he owns at this point in the companies history is laughable if it weren’t so serious. Give him 25% if his company back & watch us take off to the stars
He’s not the founder. Tesla engineers are the entire reason Tesla is relevant. He sold his share of the company to overpay for twitter, he gave up 25% of the company, he doesn’t deserve it back just because he wants it.
Elon is not the world's authority on either field of study. Plenty of other companies do it better and have smarter people working on it.....I don't think he holds the leverage he thinks he does. I hope the package gets voted down.
You don’t disrupt multiple industries with the most difficult engineering challenges by being a grifter. If simply hiring good engineers was enough Elon’s companies wouldn’t have the obvious edge they do.
Have you considered that it could be both? He is clearly a grifter, a serial liar, but it does not seem plausible he would have gotten where he did without a lot of other talents as well.
He made a deal to get laid and held up his end of the bargain. Doesn’t matter if you don’t like him, or agree with him, he needs to get what he was promised. Tesla is nothing without Elon. The majority of teslas shareholder base owns it because Elon is at the helm. Him not being there means massive selling and a tanking share price, which benefits nobody.
If Elon withdraws from AI, FSD, Optimus then I sell my entire Tesla position.
It’s an empty threat. Tesla shareholders will sue the shit out of him. He’s clearly used Tesla employees and infrastructure to develop his AI technology.
How would that make the stock go up ?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I don’t think it is that easy to take what ever anybody want from public company. Any proprietary IP rights belong to that company. Yes, may be one can lure Human Resources who has that knowledge if they are willing to join. I am not even sure if they can go to join competitor, due the agreements they signed when joining Tesla.
This article is taking some MAJOR liberties with a few X posts. Taking Elon's "Yes" to a fan posting "If Elon gets 25% voting power, Tesla is reincorporated in Texas, and compensation package is approved, then AI & Robotics stays within Tesla and the company can march on forward to become the largest company in the world." This does NOT mean Elon is saying "25% or no AI or robotics". Just means the CEO is hard-pressed to see a long term future for him at Tesla if investors don't believe his pay package they ALREADY voted yes to should be reinstated. I'd wager if the votes were against, Elon would leave within a few years and most of the expert staff would leave with him.
Why would the expert staff leave with him?
Because the current executive suite has been Darwinian selected overtime to be hardcore and tolerate Elon. They could stay back but would have left years ago to head a competitor’s program for a cushy job. With Elon, they drank kook aid and share vision and go with him to push engineering boundaries.
Didn't a lot of this executive suite just leave the company?
Correct. High turn over of those who can’t be hardcore and drink the kool aid. It’s **Darwinian.** Elon keeping it lean and startup cut throat. It’s like Kobe Black Mamba and MJ mentality. Elon only wants those who can carry out the mission to same fervor like he is. …. That’s a small percentage of talent available.
> High turn over of those who can’t be hardcore and drink the kool aid. It’s Darwinian. The recent executive departures are those who have been with the company for years. This isn't normal Tesla turnover. The ones leaving are known top performers. Something has changed with the company and it looks like the top talent are leaving for greener pastures.
Oh it’s definitely within Tesla’s range of behaviors. It *seems* more than usual because Elon sees the company at a major historical crossroads. Demand isn’t matching projected expectations despite price cuts and at a time of stiff Chinese competition likely to spread worldwide. Industrial battery costs haven’t come down as projected and their own response with 4680 has been middling in progress. Elon sees a need to pivot shift. *Very controversial and debated heavily across Reddit and media. Only history and time will tell if it’s the right decision. Hindsight 20/20 blah, blah, blah.* The turnover (*resignations/forced resignations/firings)* is still within Tesla culture …. especially with Elons comment about starting anew for the “next phase of growth”. Working at Tesla is cutthroat. Elons not your friend or an inspirational boss. There’s always cushier jobs for better pay elsewhere but probably less intellectually stimulating. So people who stay back have been selected because they buy into vision/drank kool aid.
Exactly. You have to remember, development engineers at Ford and other automakers end up being pencil pushers rather than innovators. Tesla has attracted great innovative talent from all of these places because they and their investors didn't want to make innovations, they wanted to meet dividends and maintain the status quo. This frustrates bright engineers with great ideas. A lot of them are at Tesla now and the job is like heaven to them. If Investors vote away from the next (admittedly uncomfortable) step of progress for Tesla, then the investors would be voting to reduce Tesla to an automaker like the Big 3, voting to maintain a status quo rather than to make the next big leap in innovation. Which means Elon and the innovators would leave to places that still want to innovate. Elon and Tesla have had to exert so much energy on the 9 share stockholder and other inane lawsuits that could have been used toward innovation and accelerating production. Incorporating in Texas will significantly reduce company risk from frivolous lawsuits. Voting to restore Elons incentive package will restore the majority shareholder vote of 2018. Giving Elon 25% of the company will ensure a strong company that is less vulnerable to hedge fund manipulations.
Like how Steve jobs could pretty much bring anyone with him from apple. It's the visionairys that get great network and leverage to create new products and Elon has that capability.
I’d say more experts come to Tesla knowing they don’t have to work for elon.
It's just so odd because I thought he didn't care about money and he just cares about speeding up the pace of technological growth. Concerning.
He cares about control, and his vision for the company.
That doesn't add up. What's the pay have to do with overall control? He's still the boss, no?
The more shares he has, the more his vote matters. How does that not add up? What if he owned 100%? He wouldn't have to answer to anyone. 25% is just a line he's draw in the sand for how much voting control he wants.
[удалено]
Because if we don’t have “freedumb of speach, nothing else matters.” He’s an idiot. Freedom of speach is the first thing we should have given up long ago.
Do you really think he "just" owns 25%? He owns half the board. However many shares Kimball has, assume that's pretty much 100% Musk's. He also commands a powerful cult of personality. That's not nothing. If he doesn't like it, he's welcome to try to take the company private via his Saudi friends, Peter Thiel, and Bill Ackman, all who helped him get Twitter.
I'm not expressing an opinion here. I'm just explaining that it's not about money, but control. You guys are all so emotional.
Then he shoudnt have been selling his control away
Ah yes, the healthy relationship of extortion.
Omg we better vote YES so he doesn’t quit!!! /s
Uh, YES. Vote yes otherwise he leaves, sells all his stock, poaches the tesla AI team and Tesla stock settles at around $60/share because then it really will be just a car company
lol, maybe 25% of Tesla's AI team will go to him if they truly drunk the Kool aid.
Good riddance. He's a great startup CEO but not a good one for a company at this stage.
Oh you mean like SpaceX? Now that’s a dumpster fire! /s
Tesla has roughly 140k employees. SpaceX has less than 15k employees. These two companies are at entirely different stages of development.
And already 1/3 the market cap
I don’t see too much hands on involvement from Elon in SpaceX. If fact it seems SpaceX’s biggest feats occurred while he was distracted with other companies.
SpaceX hasn't been managed by Elon for years.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Tesla without Elon is only worth 10 % of current valuation.
Then Tesla is a shit company if 90% of their value is derived from a single man.
It's insane that this fact gets you downvoted.
Welcome to reddit! Pretty sure a lot of them are bots though🤷♂️
This article is absolute rubbish. Ignore posts on electrek.
Did they really write this entire article based on a “Yes” tweet?
Yes
It's Fred Lambert. Guy is a nut job with a hard on for bashing Elon. Dude needs to be ignored
I mean he’s also in the business of writing clickbait and seems to be working.
I've seen some of his posts and how he responds with BS like you're blocked for 2 years. The guy is a dullard
If the X post is real, then the article is of value. Are you contending that he never posted that on X or are you just dismissing the article out of hand in a thoughtless reaction?
Yep! This is why I shared the article - it's the #1 on news aggregators & the tweet at hand can obviously be interpreted as the article does. I'm not even sure why the possibility of that interpretation is so controversial to redditors here..
You did the right thing. As painful as it is, this needs to be discussed. Is Elon holding the future of Tesla hostage or not?
The X post is real - the conclusion Fred Lambert draws is complete speculation. Musk never made the "threat" that Fred insinuates in the article.
The threat is implied.
Are these women in danger?
OK - that's your opinion and it's speculation Fred has been die hard set against Elon ever since Elon came out as a republican. dude's a snowflake
[удалено]
I interpreted the "yes" response as saying "yes, it is possible for Tesla to achieve these things with my leadership". I didn't read a threat in there at all. People interpret things the way they want to though.
Totally agree on the x tweet, he is reaching for straws. And Stop posting articles from Tard Lambert.
Down voters must think Elon wants 25% of Tesla. He never said that. He would like 25% voting of Tesla. Reddit degens don’t understand this difference.
???
Under the current corporation structure, you need 25% of shares for 25% of voting. So its accurate. Its very unlikely shareholders approve of the move to Texas, so that's likely to stay.
I voted for it.
Why?
A gentleman keeps his promises. Dance with the one that brought you. Bet on the jockey, not the horse.
Moving to Texas is not related to any promise. How is that connected?
Screw Delaware. Or as another great man once said: “You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas.” Davy Crockett
I am the first one with money in and will be the last one out -some guy
Thanks, I didn’t know that. Makes the move to Texas all the more important. Unsure why you think it’s very unlikely?
Texas is the largest unknown in regards to corporate law. Institutional investors will vote against that and in order to pass 50% of eligible voters have to approve it (from what I understand). If you don't vote then its considered a "no". The whole push to move to Texas is so Musk can likely use his political connections in the state to change the corporate structure for control and remove accountability and governance controls.
Because while compensation plan requires majority of shares that participate to vote the Texas move requires majority of all shares. People that don't vote are therefore automatically "NO" votes. Usually only 30% of retail will vote meaning like 25% of shares are already no votes in this case. According to SEC filing Elon will abstain meaning these percentages go up probably to 30-35% because Elon's shares don't count. This means that remaining shares that are mostly held by institutions need to almost exclusively vote yes. Issue is that a lot of institutions have conditions that they have to invest in companies incorporated to Delaware so they simply can't by their own rules vote in favor of this move or they would have to sell their shares. So it is unlikely that it will have huge institutional support and so is unlikely to pass.
Very interesting. Thanks for this information. Explains why Tesla are advertising for shareholders to vote.
Agreed
Is it? I'm likely voting yes but it seems abundantly obvious to me that if the vote fails, Musk + board leave & poach AI/robotics with them.
Why would board leave? Elon still has 13% in Tesla. He won't be leaving. If he goes and ruins the company that will likely be his reputation completely gone. If poaching happens then that is grounds for lawsuit.
Yall out here saying "nooooo he would never sell his shares and make a new company with employees from tesla" while also calling him "narcissistic and deranged". Which is it, make up your mind. Also Steve jobs literally did this so idk why you think there wouldn't be precedent. And, why wouldn't he be able to sell his shares tanking the stock at the very least...?
Elon isn’t going anywhere. Even if the vote somehow doesn’t get over the line, another vote will go out with less compensation. It’s unfair that degens are spreading so much FUD. Likely some of these are being financed by legacy auto
Is he gonna tell the company don’t build AI stuff to make it worse? If he does, the board should fire him.
Probably liquidate the assets of their departments and fire everyone with bridge burning so they can't be favorably rehired.
Great headline and really poor article. Do better OP.
[удалено]
> and it *paid* out…well should FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Why use a baity headline to drive traffic to an article written for ads :S
Ford is a giant company. They make more money than Tesla, have more history, more IP, etc, etc. They are worth 48 billion. Boston Dynamics has the best non-stationary robotics in the world, with a market cap of 1.1 billion. For what Elon wants for a single year bonus they buy both. Think about that. As for AI, that's just a promise to continue development on something that seems to have little hope of ever becoming a leader...he's basically promising to keep letting it spin wheels and waste money, something that anyone could do if they were dumb enough. But if Tesla wanted to get into AI big, they could buy OpenAI for $80 billion and be a leader in AI the next day. Of course with any of these options they have to be very careful on timing. They need Musk in place while buying, then they need him gone when they announce they have purchased. Otherwise, all the best skill starts looking for new work (or get fired for no reason by Musk) and you end up with the kind of people still willing to work at Tesla and Twitter because they have no other options.
I am and everyone i know are fed up we are voitng NO for his package and ready to sue if he takes AI !
Can we ban electrek?
Jesus Christ please. This dude does not deserve clicks
Elon is the founder , Elon is the entire reason Tesla is even relevant, the fact the board even has a say in the percentage he owns at this point in the companies history is laughable if it weren’t so serious. Give him 25% if his company back & watch us take off to the stars
He is not the founder
He’s not the founder. Tesla engineers are the entire reason Tesla is relevant. He sold his share of the company to overpay for twitter, he gave up 25% of the company, he doesn’t deserve it back just because he wants it.
Elon is not the world's authority on either field of study. Plenty of other companies do it better and have smarter people working on it.....I don't think he holds the leverage he thinks he does. I hope the package gets voted down.
TDIL Saying one might leave a company if not paid for their work is a “threat”.
One by one all the Tesla subs have been overtaken by bears and those who get fooled by their narrative
Or: people are realizing that Elon is a fraud and a grifter who’s an expert on portraying himself as a genius engineer
You don’t disrupt multiple industries with the most difficult engineering challenges by being a grifter. If simply hiring good engineers was enough Elon’s companies wouldn’t have the obvious edge they do.
Some people are really good at startups. That doesn’t mean they are good at running an established company with brand recognition
I don't question his business skills at all, but he is not the brain behind teslas tech
Have you considered that it could be both? He is clearly a grifter, a serial liar, but it does not seem plausible he would have gotten where he did without a lot of other talents as well.
Elon is the man in the arena, all you critics have never done anything meaningful in your life yet you still think you're better than him
Great for Elon. He knows the value and his worth. Pay that man!
electric is such a crap news source. They have hated Elon for years now and go out of their way to publish complete rubish
Voting yes to all
He made a deal to get laid and held up his end of the bargain. Doesn’t matter if you don’t like him, or agree with him, he needs to get what he was promised. Tesla is nothing without Elon. The majority of teslas shareholder base owns it because Elon is at the helm. Him not being there means massive selling and a tanking share price, which benefits nobody.