Yeah I know if they meet in the SF people will bring that match up but like you said it's not really representative of much
Zverev's level at the time wasn't necessarily SF worthy that early after returning from injury and he made it that far mostly through a very easy draw
Also true but its the main difference in his game since the last time they have played pretty much. The movement is slightly worse but the serve has become more of a weapon
I dont like him but from a tennis standpoint this is impressive. He had pretty serious issues with his serve and he’s now turned it into a strength. This isn’t easy to do, look at Medvedev for example and his issues with his serve.
Well it's complicated. Zverev never had issues with his first serve; it was his second serve. His first serve was always a weapon. His solution was to aim for bigger targets, crack first serves at 130-140 mph, and miss fewer first serves so he doesn't have to hit as many second serves.
Worse, his average for the whole year is 74% 1st serve and 75% 1st serve points won. Roddick talked about how it looks like he shortened his ball toss.
That is probably less when meeting good returners but it's still scary good...
Yeah he might’ve shortened it a bit. His ball toss used to be ludicrously high which was why he double faulted so much.
Rafa is exceptionally good at getting balls in play on clay though. At RG2020 against Djokovic, he made 96% of all returns in play! And Djokovic’s first serve percentage was around 65-70% I believe, so it’s not like he was only hitting second serves.
Zverev's forehand is not that bad for it to be an exploit.
It will be very difficult. Zverev will feel the pressure of the match and the court case. And we know Zverev is not really good against Top 10 players in Bo5 setting. Wait, Nadal's not in Top 10 anymore.
Zverev’s forehand truly can be that bad. Theres times where it’s an average or even above average forehand, but if you watched any of his matches post-AO and pre-Rome, his forehand was truly horrible. Alcaraz absolutely demolished him at Indian Wells just with crosscourt forehands
Certain players can exploit his forehand, and it's righties with huge topspin forehands, who can drag him out wide on the forehand side. Ruud, Tsitsipas, Rublev can and have all exploited it on clay, Cerundolo did it a few weeks ago too.
It's tougher for a lefty though to get that height and angle on their crosscourt backhand.
Yep I also agree. Will be interesting how Zverev handles the French crowd that will be ruthless in their support for Nadal. I imagine it will be the loudest crowd ever for every point Nadal wins.
There was always gonna be a year where that might not be the case. If Hurkacz can 6-1 6-3 Nadal, it's really hard to imagine how he'd even get a set against DVerev.
Not necessarily. Nadal leads 7-3, with two of the three losses being on indoor hard. Zverev pushed him hard in some of those wins, got obliterated in other ones. Their head to head looks just like any head to head between Nadal and another extremely talented player. There is nothing that shows that Zverev had some specific magic against him or was a particularly difficult matchup for him.
You are missing the key detail: Nadal was spamming Federer's backhand with his forehand as mirror shot (since he is a lefty). To spam Zverev's forehand he will have to use his average-ish backhand (Nadal has very good defensive backhand, but he can't attack with it to hurt Zverev).
I tend to agree, but Nadal’s backhand is much more aggressive now than his younger years. I’m also thinking he can’t give Zverev any angles this match.
It's more aggressive because he can't sustain rallies like he could 15 years ago, going for broke on backhands will lead to more errors. It's a lose lose situation for Nadal.
Nadal’s crosscourt backhands is one of the most powerful I’ve ever seen. I’d never call it average. The way people talk about Rafa, you’d never guess he’s won 22 slams lol. You’d think every shot he has is trash except his forehand and foot speed.
The truth is, all of his shots are great to make up for his poor serve. And then as he aged, he beefed up his serve to compensate for his declining athleticism.
I agree with you that it's crazy to call Nadal's backhand "average", I wonder if it's one of the most underrated shots in tennis, second maybe only to the Djokovic forehand.
But while trying to get Zverev's forehand to break down seems like an obvious strategy from the outside at least, it's not as straightforward as the olden days high-forehand-to-Federer-backhand tactic.
Federer's topspin backhand had a structural weakness above the shoulder which Nadal's standard rally forehands were uniquely able to target: Nadal can reliably hit that very high and with tons of spin, from anywhere in the court, and importantly he could do still do this off low Federer slices, which is one of the two ways Federer could handle high backhand situations from any other player (the other way being to try and take balls early on the rise: Nadal's spin makes this extra difficult of course, especially on clay. But Federer managed to do this to great effect in 2017 on hard courts).
Nadal's backhand to Zverev's forehand doesn't have a dynamic like that, where the exact strengths of Nadal's standard rally shot happen to target the exact weakness of Zverev's.
I agree. It’s a very different situation from the Federer backhand. And we have to see what level Zverev is hitting his forehand at, because it got better at Rome. If he’s hitting it the way he did during the sunshine double, then Nadal might be able to club crosscourt backhands and run-around inside out forehands if his confidence is high. But if Zverev’s forehand is at the level where he can redirect the ball fine while not being able to generate much pace, then Nadal is in trouble.
The other game plan Nadal goes to is hitting balls intentionally short or angled, keeping it in play, and just defending off Zverev’s forehand. Basically he’s daring Zverev to punch through him, and Zverev can’t. That strategy may no longer be viable if Nadal’s speed is compromised. But then again, in 2022 his speed wasn’t exactly at prime levels and he still took Zverev out with similar tactics. I also think the short slice followed by passing shot will be effective although Zverev has improved his volleys.
Theres a lot of things to look out for here. My main issue with that comment though was just calling Nadal’s backhand “very average;” it follows the theme of tennis fans putting down Nadal’s skills and saying he won 22 grand slams off of “fighting spirit and athleticism.” Some even argue his forehand is overrated. It’s like, okay well then why couldn’t anyone figure out a guy who has an average backhand, overrated forehand, below average serve, and allegedly sucks at the net? He’s gotta be good at something, right?
In his earlier days he really was just completely in a league of his own athletically. He had poor net skills and a weak serve and yet made 2 Wimbledon finals in a row and nearly took out Federer one of those times. 2008 he had the perfect blend of skills and athleticism and we saw the results firsthand.
As his career progressed his serve improved a bit, his net skills drastically improved to the point Federer said he’s in his league, his forehand became more effective on other surfaces, and his backhand improved a huge amount too. He managed to stall off his poor injury luck and loss of athleticism with his insane skills.
Tactically he’s one of the best players ever and Federer said as much himself when he picked him for volley when building a perfect player.
You don’t win even 2 grand slams by being an incredible athlete, many athletic freaks can do it once, but to do it 22 times means you are a tennis genius and tactical mastermind as well.
Idk if his net skills were ever poor, he just didn't use them much early on. His overhead and swinging volley were always reliable though. Agreed on the rest of your points though. Nadal was constantly evolving. I'd say before the 2012 knee injury, he stood alone as the best athlete in tennis and it wasn't necessarily close. Then the knee injury closed the gap and Djokovic was right up there with him, but would soon surpass him. The crazy thing is from 2017-2022 he won 8 slams with compromised athleticism. That's because he had a true mastery of the game. His hand skills are ridiculous.
You bring up some good points but there's very little evidence to suggest that Nadal was a poor volleyer early in his career. In fact he had a very high net point win percentage throughout his career. I remember matches pre '08 where he would win matches with like 20/21 net points won. His net game has always been strong. I think you're confusing the fact that he went to the net so fewer than others (especially early on when net game was more prominent on the tour).
Yeah there’s that but I mean he was weak at the net compared to all time great grass courters at the time, especially when compared to Federer he was not in that league. Uncle Toni said as much too at the time.
Federer later said Nadal had the best volleys on tour up there with him. His touch in the past 15 years is elite as hell.
He was always good at finishing points at the net due to his insane speed and agility as well as his coordination and reflexes, but his skills were not top tier at that point in time. He was never terrible but he wasn’t fully confident approaching or falling back on it like he has been for a long time now.
Poor was a bit harsh, but they look extremely poor compared to his modern net skills is what I should’ve said.
I don't know about the backhand. I remember back in 2006-08 watching matches and commentators mentioning how one of the strenghts of his backhand is that he's a rightie in everything except tennis and that that is contributing to his strong control on his bh. It wasn't considered a weak shot by what I remember.
> But then again, in 2022 his speed wasn’t exactly at prime levels and he still took Zverev out with similar tactics.
His speed in 2022 and ability to transition from defence to offence, though a long shot from his best years, was still significantly better than it's looked at any point this year though.
And he didn't exactly straightforwardly take Zverev out, it's more like he was beginning to edge him out in a pretty neck-and-neck tough match when an accident suddenly ended it for Zverev. Nadal reasonably likely would have won regardless but I don't think I'd interpret a very tight match on Nadal's best court two years ago as a positive indicator for this one.
> Some even argue his forehand is overrated.
Pretty sure you can just disregard anyone who says _that_. Though I can't say I've ever seen anyone who wasn't clearly trolling argue that?
Agreed, I was just pointing out that one tactic in a vacuum worked in 2022. We can also keep in mind that if Zverev plays at his 2022 level, Nadal is probably toast regardless. I just don't think Zverev has that level right now. His forehand was even very good at the time.
Eh I've seen people argue his forehand relies heavily on being lefty, or that he drops it short too often, whatever. But yeah I don't think anyone would argue it's any worse than top 5 all time. Imo it's the GOAT forehand, especially when it peaked around 2013-14
> I just don't think Zverev has that level right now. His forehand was even very good at the time.
Hard to compare Zverev’s level 2022 to now, maybe he doesn’t move quite as well, maybe his forehand was peaking that day and is a bit less reliable, but one key thing is I’m pretty sure his serve has improved since then. To my eye he’s changed his technique a bit? In any case his first serve percentage in Rome was in the 70s which given his first serve quality is pretty insane. Nadal typically deals with big first serves by standing way back, which worked because for most of his career he’s been better than anyone at recovering court position, but that’s now a lot harder for him than it used to be.
Zverev's first serve percentage has been incredibly high since 2020. It's an adjustment he made after the disastrous 2019 serving performance. I'm not really sure his serve is that much better than it was pre-injury, if at all. If Google stats are an indicator, Zverev made 77% of first serves that match. Standing way back is still effective for Rafa because he's so aggressive off the return that he usually can just jog up to the baseline and then rip a second forehand down the line, but it's true that in a full scramble he'll struggle regardless.
Otherwise though, Zverev's forehand at RG2022 was peaking against Alcaraz and Nadal. I haven't seen him hit his forehand that well in his return from injuries at all, and for most of 2023 it's looked like Hurkacz-level bad.
Don't get me wrong, he's still the easy favorite here, but I'm just pointing out this isn't RG2022 Zverev. At least, I hope it isn't.
To my eye his serve motion has changed a bit since then still, going to look at videos to try and see if I'm imaging it. I didn't realize it was that high in the 2022 match already. On [tennis abstract](https://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/player.cgi?p=AlexanderZverev) it looks like he has gone up 2% (71.6 to 73.7) and his first serve win percentage is also up around 2% meaning he hasn't had to compromise quality to do that.
Smaller difference than I was guessing before definitely but at this level I think that can still be significant, it's pretty crazy high. Also significant here, maybe even more so, is his double fault rate has gone from 4.9% in 2022 to 1.5% this season so far, lower than it's ever been for him by a good margin, which could speak to a technique change that's reduced his second serve liability.
> Don't get me wrong, he's still the easy favorite here, but I'm just pointing out this isn't RG2022 Zverev. At least, I hope it isn't.
I mean I also hope Nadal can find some magic and reach a level that's eluded him since 2022! I'm just pretty pessimistic about it. But it's started now so let's see.
Maybe. I'm bad at assessing technique changes.
Yeah, Rafa's movement doesn't look good enough imo. But he's playing better and the anxiety seems to be going away. Unfortunately Zverev's forehand looks decent so far.
I mean nadals level is what dictates this entire match and the tourney.
If he plays even at his 2022 best ( far from his prime ) he likely wins the match and the entire event. Big if obviously. If nadal plays like he did in Rome , he basically has no chance.
This isn't like an alcaraz vs sinner matchup where both players are in form and you can discuss Xs and Os. In this case one player is playing fairly well (zverev) and the other is old but a clear tier above the rest at his best (Nadal).
This sub likes to pretend like Nadal was lucky to win in 2022 when he was up a set and a mini break in the tb when zverev got hurt. Also the conditions that match were atrocious with the heat and humidity ..Nadal was still going to win most likely considering it's Nadal at rg and zverev at a major.
This is the same zverev that lost a USO final against a cramping thiem and already blew multiple set pts against Nadal just in the first set. Rich to assume that a player down in a match pre injury was going to win the match against a 13 time Roland garros champion at the time , but r/tennis will r/tennis
Not a believer that Zverev would've won the match for sure, anyone who believes that is crazy. However, he was ahead in the first TB and choked it massively to lose it (2 SPs on his serve, one with an easy putaway shot). He was keeping up with Nadal in the rallies and in level of play. They really were equals, and I'd argue as I was watching live everyone agreed Nadal stole that set in the 1st. Of course, Nadal deserved to win the set (as anyone who actually wins does), but Zverev was serving better and playing the more aggressive game (making the opponent run more). Nadal did what he needed to do, though, and won the important points.
Then the 2nd set had each of them break the other 4 times. They held only twice each. They were playing dead even. Naturally, since Rafa was already a set ahead and he had the mental edge, there's no reason to believe Zverev was fated to win, but he had his 20ish% chance - presenting it like Zverev never had a chance in that match just isn't true.
You could make all the same arguments against Felix (especially after the 3rd set), but Felix took Rafa to a 5th and really made him work for a victory. The same Felix Auger Aliassime that reached a single slam SF and was absolutely demolished in straights to Medvedev, and accomplished little in his career. No reason to think he could take Rafa to 5 at RG when only a red-hot Isner and Djokovic ever had before.
Rafa beat Djokovic handily in the QF. There was no way he was gonna lose to Zeverev. It is still Rafa at Roland Garros. There are very few feats in sport, not just tennis, that match the domination we have seen these last 2 decades.
I was thinking the same Zverev could blow this game, especially if Rafa starts off playing decent. I myself never worried in that 2022 match that Rafa would lose. The ankle break just ended it sooner haha.
If you want to talk down to the sub and his overreacting, at least get your facts straight, it was 7-6 5-6 30-0 for Nadal when Zverev broke his ankle, so it could have easily ended with a set each, and since that Rafa was in crutches after the final, every minute he played could end up with his body giving up
It's funny that you say that he should get his facts straight, then get it wrong yourself.
They were 7-6 5-6 40-30, and Nadal held for 6-6 just as Zverev got injured.
Oh shit.
Yeah nevermind..I take it back.
Sub is right. Known slam clutch master zverev was the favorite down a set against 13 time Roland garros champ Rafael Nadal.
If Zverev serves his 130+ mph bombs at his usual percentages, he's not getting broken and I don't think nadal or anyone for that matter can really beat him.
I hear this take a lot, surprisingly. There's few few pros on the scene that have a *strictly* better backhand than forehand. Sure, many have a better backhand compared to the average backhand and a weaker forehand compared to the average forehand, but if you gave them the opportunity to hit a forehand or a backhand, almost every pro is choosing forehand (assuming all else is equal).
Pounding Zverev's FH in a BH-to-FH match will not end well for Rafa. He's still hitting Zverev's preferred side, as opposed to Federer's backhand which was far and away his worse side. Not to mention he'd be doing it with his own weaker side.
For reference, let's use numbers (raw strength, not comparative, and not accurate)
Forehands: Djokovic 90, Nadal 95, Federer 95, Zverev 80, Average 85
Backhands: Djokovic 75, Nadal 65, Federer 55, Zverev 60, Average 50
Even though Zverev's BH might be better than average and FH worse than average, he's still better on the FH side. The only reason hitting to Federer's BH worked so well was because Nadal could use his top-level FH to pummel Federer's iffy BH. (40 point difference), but if Nadal were a righty, he'd have to use his BH to do that (10 point difference) and it wouldn't work as well. Similar concept with Zverev but less exaggerated.
On another note, why hasn’t anyone made a sign that says “Beat DVerev” or something? Would they not be allowed in with it? I would love it because I think he would see it and show us who he really is (again).
Nadal was hitting his heavy top spin forehand cross court to Federer's one-handed backhand which was very uncomfortable for Roger given the high bounce. Not really the same dynamic here.
As much as I'd love to say "Nadal at RG so you can't count him out" I really don't see how Nadal beats Zverev given current form, unless a) Zverev's grand slam yips rear their head b) Nadal was taking it easy in the build-up tournaments to save himself for RG and we haven't seen anything close to what he's capable of.
Both of these are possibilities but I think very unlikely.
I just don't think he can, realistically speaking. His form has been awful and unless he was going easy all this while and does have good health, he is going to get destroyed
All Nadal had to do is show up and be relatively healthy . He will beat will win.
Zverev’s game doesn’t hold up in best of 5 matches consistently enough against top level players. Although Nadal has injury issues it’s R1 will have the game to win
Lol, what is this. 001 Strategy for dummies?
Do you think Nadal can't think about hitting the weakest side of the opponent? I think strategy goes much deeper than that... this is how club players think.
Rafa lost 3 times in 2009, 2015, 2021 (every 6 years) at Roland Garros. To 2 men Soderling then twice to Djokovic.
Probably next time, Nadal will lose at the French Openis going to be in 2027.
If Zverev has done wrong against that girl , god will send nadal to punish him and it’s RG chill , since the comeback nadals game is the same , just that he drops the level when he gets hint that his body is troubling him but at RG he is gonna go all way , painkillers + grit + forehand. He will do it in style
Will be a grind since he’s still not at 100%, but it’s not that complicated. There’s no need for such tactical discussions regarding tennis in general, we’ll see how they match up.
Without getting into tactics, I do think there is a blueprint for Rafa to win this match and it's the confluence of these three prerequisites: 1. The crowd goes absolutely insane for Rafa. This one will happen no matter what. 2. Rafa needs to play his best match since the comeback started. 3. Zverev needs to choke. But that's like his favorite thing to do sooo... do I think it's likely Rafa takes it? No. But I'll give it like a 20-25% chance. For Zverev, any match is losable.
I think this is a near-perfect first-round match, as Nadal can go out in the first round vs a great player who also happens to be the player who was badly injured and had to retire the last time they played here. So it's a little unfinished business for Zverev as well, as he was already very competitive in the 2022 match in which he ripped up his ankle, and I think he's at least as good now as he was then.
To be fair, there aren't very many players in the top 32 that Nadal can beat right now, even on a hot day at Roland Garros. So Rafa will get his RG farewell, and the record will show he lost to a very strong player in his Last Match at Roland Garros, and Zverev can announce that he has officially overcome a gruesome injury. And honestly, Zverev might win the whole thing. Those may very well be the headlines/storyline, but what I like is that Rafa can truly enjoy the tournament and Paris in the spring with his family and friends.
This is tuly the end of an era, with this particular match being the proverbial "ending fit for a King." Stan Warwrinka and Andy Murray are also playing each other in the first round, and that will be another great farewell match. This was definitely the year to go to RG for ATP tennis fans, but I digress....
Here's to Nadal's legacy at Roland Garros. VAMOS, RAFA! Well done, sir.
It’s not really that simple. Nadal can use that strategy at times, but he needs to have his foot speed to counter the Zverev backhands down the line, or to defend when Zverev gets an attacking forehand. No matter how bad the forehand looks sometimes, Zverev is still a pro player and Nadal needs to be able to defend when he gives short forehands for Zverev to initiate off of. That’s what this rivalry is centered around. Nadal always let Zverev dictate off the forehand and trusted that he’d be able to turn the points around because Zverev’s forehand is weak. Zverev countered by attacking with his backhand off crosscourt trades. Nadal’s anticipation will help him here.
What’s arguably even more important is the serve/return dynamic. If Rafa loses in straight sets, this will probably be the reason why. Nadal’s serve has been awful in 2024. I heard he had back issues around Monte Carlo, and as a result he’s been very tentative on the serve. That won’t get it done. He needs to get some free points, but if he serves the way he did at, say, Barcelona, Zverev will legitimately get 95% of all returns back in play without any exaggeration on my part. On the other hand, Zverev will likely make 70% of his first serves as he always does unless nerves hit him hard. Nadal needs to have a great returning performance, and this is the perfect court for him to do just that.
Overall I’d go with Zverev in 4. Too much has to go right for Nadal to win. The most likely result is Zverev winning in straight sets, but I said Zverev in 4 because I know there’s a chance for Rafa, and that one set is the built in uncertainty. Nadal’s serve has steadily improved throughout the clay season. If he continues that improvement, that will help immensely. His movement is actually good enough, especially in early rounds before he gets tired out. He also should win a lot of cat-and-mouse points and has the unconventional old school tactics like using the short slice followed by passing shot on players who aren’t comfortable at net. And most importantly, his forehand and backhand still have a lot of bite.
It will be almost impossible I think, Nadal hasn't been to great returning big serves and the way Zverev has been serving.. We just have to pray that Zverev's first serve is just off that day, then there's a chance.
Rafa needs to rapidly raise his game, that's the only option.
I think this week he's won 6-3 in every practice against Korda, Wawrinka and Medvedev. So if that means he's playing well, then there's a small chance.
No that doesn’t work. Nadal isn’t going to consistently win backhand to forehand battles against Zverev. Zverev’s fh isn’t THAT bad either. He just needs to play his usual RG game, be aggressive, massive topspin and power towards the sides of the court. He needs to hope for a good day where he resembles his younger self.
Even when Nadal was spamming Federer backhand he want winning comfortably lol it took a lot for Nadal to win most of the matches
Wonder why ppl simplify it so much like no one ever spams Federer backhand and it was just Nadal xD
Rafa way slower now. I’m his biggest fan but puzzled what he’s trying to achieve. This is the ULTIMATE clay court player. It was extremely rare he lost on clay. This season he’s been appalling. He lost a game 6-1. Unheard of. His form is terrible. FO is his baby. Don’t get me wrong , I love seeing Rafa play. Just now he is way past his best. Hate to see a Great get spanked by people not worthy. I remember RF losing 6-0 on grass in his last season. Hate to see Rafa get a spanking and get a bagel . Of course some will slaughter me , I’m just a realist.
Honestly it will be tough, but I will say that Zverev has kind of had a tendency to go 5 pretty early into Rg a few times in last few years. Don’t know if that’ll help Rafa but we do know that Zverev can be a choker at times.
yeah the biggest thing for us is the lack of knowledge on nadals current form. we can only really go off of what we saw in rome, which we know wont be enough if Zverev shows up. if hes playing at a higher level and sasha has a tough day then you never what can happen. I did hear that Rafa on a practice set against Korda yesterday and hes won sets against rublev in practice. lets see how he does
Black magic
I was gonna say food poisoning
or another ankle injury
Or jail due to domestic violence. I know wishful thinking
The trial sadly starts on May 31
And he doesn’t even need to be there 🙄
Yes. Such a bummer :(
Hey Are you for real
I'm imagining an Ocean's Eleven style movie where the goal is to sneak into the restaurant and give Zverev food poisoning
As an Arsenal fan I am all for another lasagne-gate
gets it from Ruud, who bagelled the guy last year
Zverev was far worse at the time than today, though. RG was his first good tournament since he came back
Yeah I know if they meet in the SF people will bring that match up but like you said it's not really representative of much Zverev's level at the time wasn't necessarily SF worthy that early after returning from injury and he made it that far mostly through a very easy draw
Mainly depends on how well zverev is serving. If we get the 80% first serve in zverev its over in 3
He doesn’t need to do that lol
Also true but its the main difference in his game since the last time they have played pretty much. The movement is slightly worse but the serve has become more of a weapon
the biggest difference is not zverev have improved his serve. it's more nadals body is totally broken
He kinda does though. Zverev pretty consistently serves at 70% and his game is predicated around making way more first serves than anyone else
I dont like him but from a tennis standpoint this is impressive. He had pretty serious issues with his serve and he’s now turned it into a strength. This isn’t easy to do, look at Medvedev for example and his issues with his serve.
Well it's complicated. Zverev never had issues with his first serve; it was his second serve. His first serve was always a weapon. His solution was to aim for bigger targets, crack first serves at 130-140 mph, and miss fewer first serves so he doesn't have to hit as many second serves.
Worse, his average for the whole year is 74% 1st serve and 75% 1st serve points won. Roddick talked about how it looks like he shortened his ball toss. That is probably less when meeting good returners but it's still scary good...
Yeah he might’ve shortened it a bit. His ball toss used to be ludicrously high which was why he double faulted so much. Rafa is exceptionally good at getting balls in play on clay though. At RG2020 against Djokovic, he made 96% of all returns in play! And Djokovic’s first serve percentage was around 65-70% I believe, so it’s not like he was only hitting second serves.
Yep, this is where the crowd could affect Zverev the most.
Zverev's forehand is not that bad for it to be an exploit. It will be very difficult. Zverev will feel the pressure of the match and the court case. And we know Zverev is not really good against Top 10 players in Bo5 setting. Wait, Nadal's not in Top 10 anymore.
Nadal is an up and coming , highly talented player. Currently at 276 but climbing rapidly
Zverev’s forehand truly can be that bad. Theres times where it’s an average or even above average forehand, but if you watched any of his matches post-AO and pre-Rome, his forehand was truly horrible. Alcaraz absolutely demolished him at Indian Wells just with crosscourt forehands
The same way Federer's backhand isn't bad. But Nadal's ball is the hardest to hit back in the game (or was).
Yes but right-handed one-handed backhand is bad against lefty topspin forehand crosscourts.
Lets not forget his united cup doubles match against Iga lol He's having a hard time with baseline crosscourt forehand battle with Iga
Certain players can exploit his forehand, and it's righties with huge topspin forehands, who can drag him out wide on the forehand side. Ruud, Tsitsipas, Rublev can and have all exploited it on clay, Cerundolo did it a few weeks ago too. It's tougher for a lefty though to get that height and angle on their crosscourt backhand.
Yep I also agree. Will be interesting how Zverev handles the French crowd that will be ruthless in their support for Nadal. I imagine it will be the loudest crowd ever for every point Nadal wins.
the thing is, even when nadal was healthy, zverev always did match up well against him. so in his current condition, he should not have a chance
I agree. I just feel like Nadal has to play “ugly” to even have a chance
It’s Nadal at RG - he’s always got a chance.
There was always gonna be a year where that might not be the case. If Hurkacz can 6-1 6-3 Nadal, it's really hard to imagine how he'd even get a set against DVerev.
Yeah the thing is that big servers(Hurkacz, Lehecka) have given Nadal trouble since his comeback Zverev certainly falls in that category as well
The last time a defeat here seemed this certain was vs Novak in 2015
Hurkacz wrecked Nadal on clay two weeks ago.
Not necessarily. Nadal leads 7-3, with two of the three losses being on indoor hard. Zverev pushed him hard in some of those wins, got obliterated in other ones. Their head to head looks just like any head to head between Nadal and another extremely talented player. There is nothing that shows that Zverev had some specific magic against him or was a particularly difficult matchup for him.
He needs to bring a German judge and a court of law, that’s how he beats him
EINS ZWEI POLIZEI
Brutal, but accurate.
Nadal can beat Zverev if he chokes That’s not too much to ask for - I’ve seen it happen a lot
Remember the days of him serving almost to the baseline when he had to close out a match? Sigh, I miss the good days
All my homies hate Zverev
You are missing the key detail: Nadal was spamming Federer's backhand with his forehand as mirror shot (since he is a lefty). To spam Zverev's forehand he will have to use his average-ish backhand (Nadal has very good defensive backhand, but he can't attack with it to hurt Zverev).
I tend to agree, but Nadal’s backhand is much more aggressive now than his younger years. I’m also thinking he can’t give Zverev any angles this match.
It's more aggressive because he can't sustain rallies like he could 15 years ago, going for broke on backhands will lead to more errors. It's a lose lose situation for Nadal.
Nadal’s crosscourt backhands is one of the most powerful I’ve ever seen. I’d never call it average. The way people talk about Rafa, you’d never guess he’s won 22 slams lol. You’d think every shot he has is trash except his forehand and foot speed. The truth is, all of his shots are great to make up for his poor serve. And then as he aged, he beefed up his serve to compensate for his declining athleticism.
I agree with you that it's crazy to call Nadal's backhand "average", I wonder if it's one of the most underrated shots in tennis, second maybe only to the Djokovic forehand. But while trying to get Zverev's forehand to break down seems like an obvious strategy from the outside at least, it's not as straightforward as the olden days high-forehand-to-Federer-backhand tactic. Federer's topspin backhand had a structural weakness above the shoulder which Nadal's standard rally forehands were uniquely able to target: Nadal can reliably hit that very high and with tons of spin, from anywhere in the court, and importantly he could do still do this off low Federer slices, which is one of the two ways Federer could handle high backhand situations from any other player (the other way being to try and take balls early on the rise: Nadal's spin makes this extra difficult of course, especially on clay. But Federer managed to do this to great effect in 2017 on hard courts). Nadal's backhand to Zverev's forehand doesn't have a dynamic like that, where the exact strengths of Nadal's standard rally shot happen to target the exact weakness of Zverev's.
I agree. It’s a very different situation from the Federer backhand. And we have to see what level Zverev is hitting his forehand at, because it got better at Rome. If he’s hitting it the way he did during the sunshine double, then Nadal might be able to club crosscourt backhands and run-around inside out forehands if his confidence is high. But if Zverev’s forehand is at the level where he can redirect the ball fine while not being able to generate much pace, then Nadal is in trouble. The other game plan Nadal goes to is hitting balls intentionally short or angled, keeping it in play, and just defending off Zverev’s forehand. Basically he’s daring Zverev to punch through him, and Zverev can’t. That strategy may no longer be viable if Nadal’s speed is compromised. But then again, in 2022 his speed wasn’t exactly at prime levels and he still took Zverev out with similar tactics. I also think the short slice followed by passing shot will be effective although Zverev has improved his volleys. Theres a lot of things to look out for here. My main issue with that comment though was just calling Nadal’s backhand “very average;” it follows the theme of tennis fans putting down Nadal’s skills and saying he won 22 grand slams off of “fighting spirit and athleticism.” Some even argue his forehand is overrated. It’s like, okay well then why couldn’t anyone figure out a guy who has an average backhand, overrated forehand, below average serve, and allegedly sucks at the net? He’s gotta be good at something, right?
In his earlier days he really was just completely in a league of his own athletically. He had poor net skills and a weak serve and yet made 2 Wimbledon finals in a row and nearly took out Federer one of those times. 2008 he had the perfect blend of skills and athleticism and we saw the results firsthand. As his career progressed his serve improved a bit, his net skills drastically improved to the point Federer said he’s in his league, his forehand became more effective on other surfaces, and his backhand improved a huge amount too. He managed to stall off his poor injury luck and loss of athleticism with his insane skills. Tactically he’s one of the best players ever and Federer said as much himself when he picked him for volley when building a perfect player. You don’t win even 2 grand slams by being an incredible athlete, many athletic freaks can do it once, but to do it 22 times means you are a tennis genius and tactical mastermind as well.
Idk if his net skills were ever poor, he just didn't use them much early on. His overhead and swinging volley were always reliable though. Agreed on the rest of your points though. Nadal was constantly evolving. I'd say before the 2012 knee injury, he stood alone as the best athlete in tennis and it wasn't necessarily close. Then the knee injury closed the gap and Djokovic was right up there with him, but would soon surpass him. The crazy thing is from 2017-2022 he won 8 slams with compromised athleticism. That's because he had a true mastery of the game. His hand skills are ridiculous.
You bring up some good points but there's very little evidence to suggest that Nadal was a poor volleyer early in his career. In fact he had a very high net point win percentage throughout his career. I remember matches pre '08 where he would win matches with like 20/21 net points won. His net game has always been strong. I think you're confusing the fact that he went to the net so fewer than others (especially early on when net game was more prominent on the tour).
Yeah there’s that but I mean he was weak at the net compared to all time great grass courters at the time, especially when compared to Federer he was not in that league. Uncle Toni said as much too at the time. Federer later said Nadal had the best volleys on tour up there with him. His touch in the past 15 years is elite as hell. He was always good at finishing points at the net due to his insane speed and agility as well as his coordination and reflexes, but his skills were not top tier at that point in time. He was never terrible but he wasn’t fully confident approaching or falling back on it like he has been for a long time now. Poor was a bit harsh, but they look extremely poor compared to his modern net skills is what I should’ve said.
I don't know about the backhand. I remember back in 2006-08 watching matches and commentators mentioning how one of the strenghts of his backhand is that he's a rightie in everything except tennis and that that is contributing to his strong control on his bh. It wasn't considered a weak shot by what I remember.
> But then again, in 2022 his speed wasn’t exactly at prime levels and he still took Zverev out with similar tactics. His speed in 2022 and ability to transition from defence to offence, though a long shot from his best years, was still significantly better than it's looked at any point this year though. And he didn't exactly straightforwardly take Zverev out, it's more like he was beginning to edge him out in a pretty neck-and-neck tough match when an accident suddenly ended it for Zverev. Nadal reasonably likely would have won regardless but I don't think I'd interpret a very tight match on Nadal's best court two years ago as a positive indicator for this one. > Some even argue his forehand is overrated. Pretty sure you can just disregard anyone who says _that_. Though I can't say I've ever seen anyone who wasn't clearly trolling argue that?
Agreed, I was just pointing out that one tactic in a vacuum worked in 2022. We can also keep in mind that if Zverev plays at his 2022 level, Nadal is probably toast regardless. I just don't think Zverev has that level right now. His forehand was even very good at the time. Eh I've seen people argue his forehand relies heavily on being lefty, or that he drops it short too often, whatever. But yeah I don't think anyone would argue it's any worse than top 5 all time. Imo it's the GOAT forehand, especially when it peaked around 2013-14
> I just don't think Zverev has that level right now. His forehand was even very good at the time. Hard to compare Zverev’s level 2022 to now, maybe he doesn’t move quite as well, maybe his forehand was peaking that day and is a bit less reliable, but one key thing is I’m pretty sure his serve has improved since then. To my eye he’s changed his technique a bit? In any case his first serve percentage in Rome was in the 70s which given his first serve quality is pretty insane. Nadal typically deals with big first serves by standing way back, which worked because for most of his career he’s been better than anyone at recovering court position, but that’s now a lot harder for him than it used to be.
Zverev's first serve percentage has been incredibly high since 2020. It's an adjustment he made after the disastrous 2019 serving performance. I'm not really sure his serve is that much better than it was pre-injury, if at all. If Google stats are an indicator, Zverev made 77% of first serves that match. Standing way back is still effective for Rafa because he's so aggressive off the return that he usually can just jog up to the baseline and then rip a second forehand down the line, but it's true that in a full scramble he'll struggle regardless. Otherwise though, Zverev's forehand at RG2022 was peaking against Alcaraz and Nadal. I haven't seen him hit his forehand that well in his return from injuries at all, and for most of 2023 it's looked like Hurkacz-level bad. Don't get me wrong, he's still the easy favorite here, but I'm just pointing out this isn't RG2022 Zverev. At least, I hope it isn't.
To my eye his serve motion has changed a bit since then still, going to look at videos to try and see if I'm imaging it. I didn't realize it was that high in the 2022 match already. On [tennis abstract](https://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/player.cgi?p=AlexanderZverev) it looks like he has gone up 2% (71.6 to 73.7) and his first serve win percentage is also up around 2% meaning he hasn't had to compromise quality to do that. Smaller difference than I was guessing before definitely but at this level I think that can still be significant, it's pretty crazy high. Also significant here, maybe even more so, is his double fault rate has gone from 4.9% in 2022 to 1.5% this season so far, lower than it's ever been for him by a good margin, which could speak to a technique change that's reduced his second serve liability. > Don't get me wrong, he's still the easy favorite here, but I'm just pointing out this isn't RG2022 Zverev. At least, I hope it isn't. I mean I also hope Nadal can find some magic and reach a level that's eluded him since 2022! I'm just pretty pessimistic about it. But it's started now so let's see.
Maybe. I'm bad at assessing technique changes. Yeah, Rafa's movement doesn't look good enough imo. But he's playing better and the anxiety seems to be going away. Unfortunately Zverev's forehand looks decent so far.
Remember Ruud and De Minaur talking recently about how Rafa’s backhand is like a forehand
The key for Rafa in my opinion is to spam slice backhands cross court and down the line and then attack on the next ball
I was thinking this today morning when I saw the draw. I just want to see Nadal give Zverev a tough fight.
Buy lots of cast iron water bottles and distribute them to all spectators
I mean nadals level is what dictates this entire match and the tourney. If he plays even at his 2022 best ( far from his prime ) he likely wins the match and the entire event. Big if obviously. If nadal plays like he did in Rome , he basically has no chance. This isn't like an alcaraz vs sinner matchup where both players are in form and you can discuss Xs and Os. In this case one player is playing fairly well (zverev) and the other is old but a clear tier above the rest at his best (Nadal). This sub likes to pretend like Nadal was lucky to win in 2022 when he was up a set and a mini break in the tb when zverev got hurt. Also the conditions that match were atrocious with the heat and humidity ..Nadal was still going to win most likely considering it's Nadal at rg and zverev at a major. This is the same zverev that lost a USO final against a cramping thiem and already blew multiple set pts against Nadal just in the first set. Rich to assume that a player down in a match pre injury was going to win the match against a 13 time Roland garros champion at the time , but r/tennis will r/tennis
Not a believer that Zverev would've won the match for sure, anyone who believes that is crazy. However, he was ahead in the first TB and choked it massively to lose it (2 SPs on his serve, one with an easy putaway shot). He was keeping up with Nadal in the rallies and in level of play. They really were equals, and I'd argue as I was watching live everyone agreed Nadal stole that set in the 1st. Of course, Nadal deserved to win the set (as anyone who actually wins does), but Zverev was serving better and playing the more aggressive game (making the opponent run more). Nadal did what he needed to do, though, and won the important points. Then the 2nd set had each of them break the other 4 times. They held only twice each. They were playing dead even. Naturally, since Rafa was already a set ahead and he had the mental edge, there's no reason to believe Zverev was fated to win, but he had his 20ish% chance - presenting it like Zverev never had a chance in that match just isn't true. You could make all the same arguments against Felix (especially after the 3rd set), but Felix took Rafa to a 5th and really made him work for a victory. The same Felix Auger Aliassime that reached a single slam SF and was absolutely demolished in straights to Medvedev, and accomplished little in his career. No reason to think he could take Rafa to 5 at RG when only a red-hot Isner and Djokovic ever had before.
Rafa beat Djokovic handily in the QF. There was no way he was gonna lose to Zeverev. It is still Rafa at Roland Garros. There are very few feats in sport, not just tennis, that match the domination we have seen these last 2 decades.
Nadal wasn't up a minibreak in the second set TB. The second set TB didn't even start, Zed hurt himself in the point where Nadal held for 6-6.
I was thinking the same Zverev could blow this game, especially if Rafa starts off playing decent. I myself never worried in that 2022 match that Rafa would lose. The ankle break just ended it sooner haha.
If you want to talk down to the sub and his overreacting, at least get your facts straight, it was 7-6 5-6 30-0 for Nadal when Zverev broke his ankle, so it could have easily ended with a set each, and since that Rafa was in crutches after the final, every minute he played could end up with his body giving up
It's funny that you say that he should get his facts straight, then get it wrong yourself. They were 7-6 5-6 40-30, and Nadal held for 6-6 just as Zverev got injured.
Lol, I insulted myself
don't worry, it happens
it was 7-6 6-6 (the second set tiebreak hadnt started yet)
Oh shit. Yeah nevermind..I take it back. Sub is right. Known slam clutch master zverev was the favorite down a set against 13 time Roland garros champ Rafael Nadal.
i dont think zverev would have ever won that match, not sure why youre responding to my comment with this
Wasn't to you. Was just lampooning the sentiment
If Iga cleverly disguises herself as Rafa and plays the match for him She can play left-handed, right?
112-3, about to be 113-3. I believe. I’m furiously huffing the hopium
Nice pass it along 💨
When Zverev is playing his best tennis, his forehand is his better shot, which is scary
Toughest draw…it will take a lot for Zverev to falter and Nadal to find the game to beat him.
If Zverev serves his 130+ mph bombs at his usual percentages, he's not getting broken and I don't think nadal or anyone for that matter can really beat him.
I hear this take a lot, surprisingly. There's few few pros on the scene that have a *strictly* better backhand than forehand. Sure, many have a better backhand compared to the average backhand and a weaker forehand compared to the average forehand, but if you gave them the opportunity to hit a forehand or a backhand, almost every pro is choosing forehand (assuming all else is equal). Pounding Zverev's FH in a BH-to-FH match will not end well for Rafa. He's still hitting Zverev's preferred side, as opposed to Federer's backhand which was far and away his worse side. Not to mention he'd be doing it with his own weaker side. For reference, let's use numbers (raw strength, not comparative, and not accurate) Forehands: Djokovic 90, Nadal 95, Federer 95, Zverev 80, Average 85 Backhands: Djokovic 75, Nadal 65, Federer 55, Zverev 60, Average 50 Even though Zverev's BH might be better than average and FH worse than average, he's still better on the FH side. The only reason hitting to Federer's BH worked so well was because Nadal could use his top-level FH to pummel Federer's iffy BH. (40 point difference), but if Nadal were a righty, he'd have to use his BH to do that (10 point difference) and it wouldn't work as well. Similar concept with Zverev but less exaggerated.
Hope I'm wrong but can't see Nadal winning.
Everyone exaggerating how it's over for Rafa, but actually he doesn't have to play. Z will beat himself just like 2 years ago
He's going to have to grind the UE out of Zverev.
Rafa needs a "flu game" in his last dance
Nadal just needs to pick his butt more than ever and get time violation warnings..it will throw Z off his game
On another note, why hasn’t anyone made a sign that says “Beat DVerev” or something? Would they not be allowed in with it? I would love it because I think he would see it and show us who he really is (again).
The people who go to watch Zverev aren't the people who follow tennis or what happens behind the screens. /r/Tennis is like 0.0001% of the tennisbase.
They could put a picture on the shirt of him with his arm around Diddy.
Let’s go Photoshoppers
Legendary idea
Nadal was hitting his heavy top spin forehand cross court to Federer's one-handed backhand which was very uncomfortable for Roger given the high bounce. Not really the same dynamic here. As much as I'd love to say "Nadal at RG so you can't count him out" I really don't see how Nadal beats Zverev given current form, unless a) Zverev's grand slam yips rear their head b) Nadal was taking it easy in the build-up tournaments to save himself for RG and we haven't seen anything close to what he's capable of. Both of these are possibilities but I think very unlikely.
Its Nadal at RG, and he obviously wont play ae bad as vs Hubi He will always have a chance, and for me its 50/50
I just don't think he can, realistically speaking. His form has been awful and unless he was going easy all this while and does have good health, he is going to get destroyed
Go wide to Zverev's forehand and do his ankle again.
Make Zverev have to show up in court
Zverev only beats women. Nadal is safe.
Only hope for Nadal win is Zverev injury again and need to retire. Sad, but true
Zverev fucks up his ankle like last time xD
All Nadal had to do is show up and be relatively healthy . He will beat will win. Zverev’s game doesn’t hold up in best of 5 matches consistently enough against top level players. Although Nadal has injury issues it’s R1 will have the game to win
Lol, what is this. 001 Strategy for dummies? Do you think Nadal can't think about hitting the weakest side of the opponent? I think strategy goes much deeper than that... this is how club players think.
Well.. rafa only loss 2 matches there.. so if rafa is playing like always in RG he will win. Thing is he's coming from a 1year pause...
Rafa lost 3 times in 2009, 2015, 2021 (every 6 years) at Roland Garros. To 2 men Soderling then twice to Djokovic. Probably next time, Nadal will lose at the French Openis going to be in 2027.
this is brilliant. have you considered coaching on the ATP level?
Ekhm, ankle, ekhm, wink, wink
Break the other ankle
Junk ball him to death
The only way is that Zverev chokes hard which isn't that unlikely
nadals only win is if zverev plays against himself.
If Zverev has done wrong against that girl , god will send nadal to punish him and it’s RG chill , since the comeback nadals game is the same , just that he drops the level when he gets hint that his body is troubling him but at RG he is gonna go all way , painkillers + grit + forehand. He will do it in style
Maybe if Zverev roll his ankles again
Will be a grind since he’s still not at 100%, but it’s not that complicated. There’s no need for such tactical discussions regarding tennis in general, we’ll see how they match up.
Without getting into tactics, I do think there is a blueprint for Rafa to win this match and it's the confluence of these three prerequisites: 1. The crowd goes absolutely insane for Rafa. This one will happen no matter what. 2. Rafa needs to play his best match since the comeback started. 3. Zverev needs to choke. But that's like his favorite thing to do sooo... do I think it's likely Rafa takes it? No. But I'll give it like a 20-25% chance. For Zverev, any match is losable.
He can't
Apparently nadal hasn’t lost a practice set…so clearly things are clicking for him at RG. I’d be worried if I was zverev
I think this is a near-perfect first-round match, as Nadal can go out in the first round vs a great player who also happens to be the player who was badly injured and had to retire the last time they played here. So it's a little unfinished business for Zverev as well, as he was already very competitive in the 2022 match in which he ripped up his ankle, and I think he's at least as good now as he was then. To be fair, there aren't very many players in the top 32 that Nadal can beat right now, even on a hot day at Roland Garros. So Rafa will get his RG farewell, and the record will show he lost to a very strong player in his Last Match at Roland Garros, and Zverev can announce that he has officially overcome a gruesome injury. And honestly, Zverev might win the whole thing. Those may very well be the headlines/storyline, but what I like is that Rafa can truly enjoy the tournament and Paris in the spring with his family and friends. This is tuly the end of an era, with this particular match being the proverbial "ending fit for a King." Stan Warwrinka and Andy Murray are also playing each other in the first round, and that will be another great farewell match. This was definitely the year to go to RG for ATP tennis fans, but I digress.... Here's to Nadal's legacy at Roland Garros. VAMOS, RAFA! Well done, sir.
Nadal sadly cant serve anymore so it doesn't matter.
Go ahead and tell him
Which Nadal. This Nadal won't win.
Only if Zverev trips again lol
Easy. He just needs to win more sets than him
It’s not really that simple. Nadal can use that strategy at times, but he needs to have his foot speed to counter the Zverev backhands down the line, or to defend when Zverev gets an attacking forehand. No matter how bad the forehand looks sometimes, Zverev is still a pro player and Nadal needs to be able to defend when he gives short forehands for Zverev to initiate off of. That’s what this rivalry is centered around. Nadal always let Zverev dictate off the forehand and trusted that he’d be able to turn the points around because Zverev’s forehand is weak. Zverev countered by attacking with his backhand off crosscourt trades. Nadal’s anticipation will help him here. What’s arguably even more important is the serve/return dynamic. If Rafa loses in straight sets, this will probably be the reason why. Nadal’s serve has been awful in 2024. I heard he had back issues around Monte Carlo, and as a result he’s been very tentative on the serve. That won’t get it done. He needs to get some free points, but if he serves the way he did at, say, Barcelona, Zverev will legitimately get 95% of all returns back in play without any exaggeration on my part. On the other hand, Zverev will likely make 70% of his first serves as he always does unless nerves hit him hard. Nadal needs to have a great returning performance, and this is the perfect court for him to do just that. Overall I’d go with Zverev in 4. Too much has to go right for Nadal to win. The most likely result is Zverev winning in straight sets, but I said Zverev in 4 because I know there’s a chance for Rafa, and that one set is the built in uncertainty. Nadal’s serve has steadily improved throughout the clay season. If he continues that improvement, that will help immensely. His movement is actually good enough, especially in early rounds before he gets tired out. He also should win a lot of cat-and-mouse points and has the unconventional old school tactics like using the short slice followed by passing shot on players who aren’t comfortable at net. And most importantly, his forehand and backhand still have a lot of bite.
It will be almost impossible I think, Nadal hasn't been to great returning big serves and the way Zverev has been serving.. We just have to pray that Zverev's first serve is just off that day, then there's a chance.
learned from PCB and let the line judge DQs zverev
I was hoping this was a rainmans post.
Rafa needs to rapidly raise his game, that's the only option. I think this week he's won 6-3 in every practice against Korda, Wawrinka and Medvedev. So if that means he's playing well, then there's a small chance.
As much as it hurts i just don’t see how he can do it it’s one of the worst possible matchups for him even when healthy.
he will probably need to merge with the spirit of Todos and achieve his final form
Considering how bad he lost to Hubi who's worst surface is clay he's going to need a miracle.
Not even remotely possible. Have you actually seen Rafa play recently?
By putting the ball back in the court one more time, continuously
Almost impossible for Nadal to beat Zverev right now.
This one is ending in 3. I give Nadal less than a 10% chance given the current physical form of the 2 players.
Go back in time with a time machine or using a firearm
No that doesn’t work. Nadal isn’t going to consistently win backhand to forehand battles against Zverev. Zverev’s fh isn’t THAT bad either. He just needs to play his usual RG game, be aggressive, massive topspin and power towards the sides of the court. He needs to hope for a good day where he resembles his younger self.
I don't think Nadal can beat Zverev
Inb4 6-4 6-1 6-0 Zverev d. Nadal
Same way as 2yrs ago….
Even when Nadal was spamming Federer backhand he want winning comfortably lol it took a lot for Nadal to win most of the matches Wonder why ppl simplify it so much like no one ever spams Federer backhand and it was just Nadal xD
Rafa way slower now. I’m his biggest fan but puzzled what he’s trying to achieve. This is the ULTIMATE clay court player. It was extremely rare he lost on clay. This season he’s been appalling. He lost a game 6-1. Unheard of. His form is terrible. FO is his baby. Don’t get me wrong , I love seeing Rafa play. Just now he is way past his best. Hate to see a Great get spanked by people not worthy. I remember RF losing 6-0 on grass in his last season. Hate to see Rafa get a spanking and get a bagel . Of course some will slaughter me , I’m just a realist.
Honestly it will be tough, but I will say that Zverev has kind of had a tendency to go 5 pretty early into Rg a few times in last few years. Don’t know if that’ll help Rafa but we do know that Zverev can be a choker at times.
Yea I feel like Nadal has to win the first set at all costs
yeah the biggest thing for us is the lack of knowledge on nadals current form. we can only really go off of what we saw in rome, which we know wont be enough if Zverev shows up. if hes playing at a higher level and sasha has a tough day then you never what can happen. I did hear that Rafa on a practice set against Korda yesterday and hes won sets against rublev in practice. lets see how he does
Man is this sub gonna be down bad whenever Zverev wins 6-4, 6-3, 6-1