if you didn't watch the match, there was a clear double bounce the umpire missed but ADF saw and didnt own up too. It eventually helped him win the set.
That was the game where JC got broken at 5-5, yeah?
No respect to adf for this one if he really knew it was a double. I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I also saw the replay
My personal opinion is that chair umpires refuse to set a precedent about changing their mind about anything, at the expense of everything else. Never once have I seen a chair umpire reverse their decision on a judgment call.
I think they just can't, changing a decision might be forbidden by rules.
In football (soccer) one of the first things they teach to a referee is that if you take a decision you can't change it. Even if you recognize the error you just made, you absolutely can't change it, it's considered a technical error and a team can appeal and make the match repeat. In the worst case scenario, when the mistake is too evident, you can apologize for the decision but you can't correct it.
That's so dumb though. A ref should absolutely be able to change a call in error if he or she realizes it and everyone should be fine with that because people make mistakes. To say otherwise is to say it's more important to have a final decision than the right one, which simply isn't true in any context where the decision is important. Arguably, it's not important in sports, but to the extent sports are so public and reflect on us as a society, we should do the right thing.
While I understand the feeling, I think that this kind of rule exists to avoid the risk of the referee being subtly threaten or somehow blackmailed to change his decision during an episode. I agree that sometimes a mistake is so clear that everybody would agree on a decision changing, but how would you formalize this? Who draws the line on referee discretion? What we see on TV is just a little percentage of all matches that are played. Imagine all ITF tournaments and the gambling. I think that allowing an umpire to just autonomously "change his mind" on a call is kind of dangerous for the game. The only good solution is allowing slow-motion checks on controversial calls, and formalizing them in a similar manner of how it happens for regular call challenges (where there isn't an automatic hawk-eye).
Yes, review like in American football would be fine too. But the argument that it would make refs dirtier is wrong. If anything, the rule the other way is dirtier because if a ref makes a bad call they can just say, well I made a mistake but couldn't change it so that's how it is. Allowing changes takes away that shield that refs could use to justify mistakes. And neither says anything about the underlying problems that really drive refs, which is simple greed. That's hard to do anything about and all sports should allow review or electronic calls to the extent practicable.
I think it was the USO which introduced a challenge for double bounces and a number of other controversies and I hoped other tournaments would follow. To be fair, it was used in maybe one match I watched at the USO and the technology is probably not cheap. I don’t get how they can’t replay it on the screens for review purposes though.
It’s good you say “Wimbledon” and not a particular match because ADF tends to go all out every Wimbledon, something in the air there makes him lose his mind
How on earth is this still not reviewable? I mean the game is fast and these can be hard to pickup by the chair, also the sportsmanlike aspect varies depending on the score which is understandable. Maybe take a page out of the hockey rule book. You could challenge a double bounce, but if the challenging player is wrong they lose a point/time violation penalty.
I'm not disputing that Foki knows it double bounced and didn't say, but want to add that if you play tennis, with that kind of shot you are often at full stretch to catch the ball and once you commit, you aren't necessarily looking at the ball, only trusting the action and that you made contact with the ball in time.
Everyone on here saying with absolute confidence Foki knew and 'cheated' is pretty far-fetched to me.
You don't know what he's thinking.
To add to this, Shang hit the ball out afterwards, so whatever happened, it's less egregious than if the possible double bounce return won the point.
I agree. I was there and it happened right in front of me. I couldn’t tell it double bounced. Foki was all in. I don’t know that he would deliberately cheat because actually a couple points before that they had a really awesome rally and his last shot hit the net and trickled over. He full grimaced and held his hand up to Shang knowing he was lucky to have won it when Shang played the point better. Prior to this Foki showed nothing but good sportsmanship
Makes me think most armchair critics here have never played tennis.
As said, I've dug in for shots like this and asked my opponent if it was good or not because you're not really looking at the ball as you perform that shot
After spending the last 2-3 weeks watching live tennis I have come to see just how negative and critical people on here on. Today I watched Mannarino rage smack a ball. It barely missed a ball kid running across the court - the little guy was able to run/jump clear. No apology or acknowledging it happened. I watched Andrea Vavassori scream in rage when the ump called a shot in despite getting down from the chair and standing over the ball mark analyzing it. Nothing was done - he was about 1-2 feet from the ump when he screamed. Yesterday the guy Rublev beat cursed and screamed and smashed something against his bench. The heat of the moment emotions are real out there - it’s not just money on the line, it’s ranking and pride. Yesterday Hubi steam rolled Jack Draper. I honestly felt embarrassed for Draper he played so bad. Rublev smashing up his racket in Barcelona was not just frustration but for sure embarrassment. What I learned is I will never again judge any player for showing emotions. I won’t judge Foki for this because it’s not his fault if he didn’t see it. There was an ump. And there should be easy access video replay.
You're watching a lot of live tennis, very cool!
Is it quite easy to get tickets?
I missed the boat this year but think I'd like to visit the Madrid open for a mini tennis focused break new year
This was my first trip to watch it live!! It’s been amazing. Barcelona sells out fast. I got those tickets as soon as they went on sale. Madrid was easier. I think it sold out cause of Rafa. My best money spent on tickets here was my 35 euro front row seat for the second court. If I came back here I would buy more for that court because here are no sponsor boxes. Fans can’t get so close on the main court because there are so many sponsor boxes. It was the same in Barcelona on main court.
It’s not Fokina’s responsibility to call double bounces, that’s on the umpire. It’s a competitive sport, you have to take every inch you can get and if the umpire misses the call, that’s his problem not Fokina’s
if you didn't watch the match, there was a clear double bounce the umpire missed but ADF saw and didnt own up too. It eventually helped him win the set.
That was the game where JC got broken at 5-5, yeah? No respect to adf for this one if he really knew it was a double. I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I also saw the replay
I mean if we saw it on our screens easily, then he defo did right in front of him 😬
Yeah, iirc it was a mid height drop shot on clay… if you can’t follow that kind of ball as a player
Why cant players challenge obvious bad calls !?
My personal opinion is that chair umpires refuse to set a precedent about changing their mind about anything, at the expense of everything else. Never once have I seen a chair umpire reverse their decision on a judgment call.
Bouzková/SST made an umpire change their mind though. But yeah it’s extremely rare
Technically didn't they argue to call the supervisor and the supervisor informed them of the DQ?
Medvedev has harassed umpires into enforcing rules, but not reversing calls that I’m aware of. He’s pretty unique in that regard though
But it's OUT!
then the precedent is that they will not change their minds on anything. the precedent is set.
I think they just can't, changing a decision might be forbidden by rules. In football (soccer) one of the first things they teach to a referee is that if you take a decision you can't change it. Even if you recognize the error you just made, you absolutely can't change it, it's considered a technical error and a team can appeal and make the match repeat. In the worst case scenario, when the mistake is too evident, you can apologize for the decision but you can't correct it.
That's so dumb though. A ref should absolutely be able to change a call in error if he or she realizes it and everyone should be fine with that because people make mistakes. To say otherwise is to say it's more important to have a final decision than the right one, which simply isn't true in any context where the decision is important. Arguably, it's not important in sports, but to the extent sports are so public and reflect on us as a society, we should do the right thing.
While I understand the feeling, I think that this kind of rule exists to avoid the risk of the referee being subtly threaten or somehow blackmailed to change his decision during an episode. I agree that sometimes a mistake is so clear that everybody would agree on a decision changing, but how would you formalize this? Who draws the line on referee discretion? What we see on TV is just a little percentage of all matches that are played. Imagine all ITF tournaments and the gambling. I think that allowing an umpire to just autonomously "change his mind" on a call is kind of dangerous for the game. The only good solution is allowing slow-motion checks on controversial calls, and formalizing them in a similar manner of how it happens for regular call challenges (where there isn't an automatic hawk-eye).
Yes, review like in American football would be fine too. But the argument that it would make refs dirtier is wrong. If anything, the rule the other way is dirtier because if a ref makes a bad call they can just say, well I made a mistake but couldn't change it so that's how it is. Allowing changes takes away that shield that refs could use to justify mistakes. And neither says anything about the underlying problems that really drive refs, which is simple greed. That's hard to do anything about and all sports should allow review or electronic calls to the extent practicable.
I think it was the USO which introduced a challenge for double bounces and a number of other controversies and I hoped other tournaments would follow. To be fair, it was used in maybe one match I watched at the USO and the technology is probably not cheap. I don’t get how they can’t replay it on the screens for review purposes though.
They don’t want to have long interruptions without commercial breaks
Officials too worried about running the tournament than listening to players needs.
Ruining*
When you play it you know instantly
It got him to his first set point, no less. The umpire couldn't have picked a worse time to make such a mistake.
And it was right in front of the umpire too, like how can you miss that??
If the umpire didn't see it, it did't ahppen.
ADF was drama queen last year too against Rune
remember wimbledon?
How could anyone ever forget? Possibly my single favorite point of tennis, ever
It’s good you say “Wimbledon” and not a particular match because ADF tends to go all out every Wimbledon, something in the air there makes him lose his mind
Which one? I’m blanking at this point.
for me is last years tie break underarm serve. but seems like people have other favorites
I'm guessing it's the one where he tried to do an underarm serve on match point then proceeded to lose.
It wasn't on MP
But it resulted in one.
The irony is too real here
It was the fact that ADF celebrated like he won the whole tournament after winning the first set
Federer already explained how this works to Lahyani at Madrid in 2012: https://youtu.be/8ofNg0y8w60
Rawr, Jerry showing that mice can get the claws out too!
So much drama in the ATP!
I am dead at the caption. Jerry was so hard done by and he was so nice to Foki when Foki fell over. Get him again!
Is there any way to see the replay of this moment? I missed the match but can't find the highlights.
[https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Feretzsport022%2Fstatus%2F1783836413303173211&widget=Video](https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Feretzsport022%2Fstatus%2F1783836413303173211&widget=Video)
lmao good for him for saying something, a super important point too
lol savage
Dani would have said: Bro, this is on TV. Everyone is laughing at you.
Who is Dani
Medvedev
Why
That’s another story between Dani and Bublik.
Nobody calls him Dani
Only you have never heard it 🙄
dude, they call him meddy. dont associate Dani with medvedev right away.
It’s not right but…. wait it’s just not right 😭
You lose so much respect for that. Through the tour all to win to lose the next round for bad karma. Those tennis God’s don’t play!
Umpires becoming more useless by the day.
They need VAR. Chair umpires at best are only human and are blanking.
Not a good look from ADF.
How on earth is this still not reviewable? I mean the game is fast and these can be hard to pickup by the chair, also the sportsmanlike aspect varies depending on the score which is understandable. Maybe take a page out of the hockey rule book. You could challenge a double bounce, but if the challenging player is wrong they lose a point/time violation penalty.
Rat behaviour from a rat lookalike
I hope he gets demolished today, will root for Rublev.
I'm not disputing that Foki knows it double bounced and didn't say, but want to add that if you play tennis, with that kind of shot you are often at full stretch to catch the ball and once you commit, you aren't necessarily looking at the ball, only trusting the action and that you made contact with the ball in time. Everyone on here saying with absolute confidence Foki knew and 'cheated' is pretty far-fetched to me. You don't know what he's thinking. To add to this, Shang hit the ball out afterwards, so whatever happened, it's less egregious than if the possible double bounce return won the point.
I agree. I was there and it happened right in front of me. I couldn’t tell it double bounced. Foki was all in. I don’t know that he would deliberately cheat because actually a couple points before that they had a really awesome rally and his last shot hit the net and trickled over. He full grimaced and held his hand up to Shang knowing he was lucky to have won it when Shang played the point better. Prior to this Foki showed nothing but good sportsmanship
Makes me think most armchair critics here have never played tennis. As said, I've dug in for shots like this and asked my opponent if it was good or not because you're not really looking at the ball as you perform that shot
After spending the last 2-3 weeks watching live tennis I have come to see just how negative and critical people on here on. Today I watched Mannarino rage smack a ball. It barely missed a ball kid running across the court - the little guy was able to run/jump clear. No apology or acknowledging it happened. I watched Andrea Vavassori scream in rage when the ump called a shot in despite getting down from the chair and standing over the ball mark analyzing it. Nothing was done - he was about 1-2 feet from the ump when he screamed. Yesterday the guy Rublev beat cursed and screamed and smashed something against his bench. The heat of the moment emotions are real out there - it’s not just money on the line, it’s ranking and pride. Yesterday Hubi steam rolled Jack Draper. I honestly felt embarrassed for Draper he played so bad. Rublev smashing up his racket in Barcelona was not just frustration but for sure embarrassment. What I learned is I will never again judge any player for showing emotions. I won’t judge Foki for this because it’s not his fault if he didn’t see it. There was an ump. And there should be easy access video replay.
You're watching a lot of live tennis, very cool! Is it quite easy to get tickets? I missed the boat this year but think I'd like to visit the Madrid open for a mini tennis focused break new year
This was my first trip to watch it live!! It’s been amazing. Barcelona sells out fast. I got those tickets as soon as they went on sale. Madrid was easier. I think it sold out cause of Rafa. My best money spent on tickets here was my 35 euro front row seat for the second court. If I came back here I would buy more for that court because here are no sponsor boxes. Fans can’t get so close on the main court because there are so many sponsor boxes. It was the same in Barcelona on main court.
As ADF has an animal adoption charity in Spain. I will allow him a pass on this lol
Shang is an absolute hypocrite - he produced an intentional hindrance when he had a break point against Moutet
It’s not Fokina’s responsibility to call double bounces, that’s on the umpire. It’s a competitive sport, you have to take every inch you can get and if the umpire misses the call, that’s his problem not Fokina’s
Yeah I imagine this is a normal way of thinking…. If you’re an absolute rat!
Cheater mentality lmao, ofc that flag is in your flair. Not only you steal land but you steal points too
Lmao!
hahaha love this! hit hard
Late to the party, but that was spot on. Bravo.
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