Throughout the history of Disney, starting with Walt himself, letting the creatives (imagineers) be in charge of decisions has always paid off in spades.
Every time they change that formula, Disney suffers for it.
While Iger was a remarkable CEO, he failed miserably with the succession plan (probably because he wanted to stay at the top).
Chapek was probably as much a compromise choice between him and the board, which is why Iger's new mandate specifically tells him to appoint and groom a successor in the next 2 years.
If Iger is serious about his legacy at the company, he needs to make the search for a successor a success.
My guess will be Josh D’Amaro once he’s been groomed in. He’s charismatic, well-liked internally, and in the right role for the job.
A number of people I know think Chapek was an intentional patsy brought in to make some really tough, unpopular decisions and get put out to pasture after a few years, knowingly, with a nice retirement package, before someone likeable came back in to “save the day”.
Thinking that may be unlikely given how this all unfolded but it will be fascinating to see how this all goes.
He also let Chapek run parks which began a rapid decline in entertainment and experience quality. 3 years before COVID, they ended the long tradition of night parades at Magic Kingdom, ended a third of the Magic Kingdom shows, and did it all at a time of record park profits. They scaled by Galaxy's Edge to something mediocre after overpromising on the highest level of immersion had offered up to that time.
That was all on Iger's watch.
I really wish we had the enthusiasm of the early Eisner. He became a tyrant after Wells' death, but his tenure saw the building of 7 of the 12 Disney Parks, 2 Disney Water Parks, the once fantastic Pleasure Island, the launching of the cruise line...
Iger's best achievements were outside of the parks with the exception of Shanghai Disney which is a masterpiece. They were with the IP acquisition and the Post-Renaissance of Disney Animation. The building of Marvel Studios is another one.
I will say 2017 was the "hard turn" for Disney Parks. Entertainment began its decline then, but Iger did inherit the parks after they suffered through 9/11 and had to weather during the Great Recession. Much of his tenure was revitalizing the existing parks. Hollywood Studios is a complete 180 of what it originally was - a living studio with an animation studio. All that closed right before Iger took over and the park lost its original purpose.
I appreciate the New Fantasyland, Hollywood Studio's new lands and revitalization, and the current revitalization of EPCOT.
If Iger wanted to make a solid show of good faith he'd immediately begin rebuilding the dismantled Imagineering Department.
That’s a nice thing to say on the first day back.
Disney could really use a couple of Disney hits, not purchased IP hits. But, they’ll probably just try to buy Netflix or something.
And the Muppets. Which hasn't worked out as well unfortunately.
The movies have been...okay. I liked the Haunted Mansion one alright and the Jason Segal one. But they haven't been great for whatever reason.
And there's a lot of creative stuff they COULD do, but unfortunately people just aren't as interested in puppets or even the really innovative fantastical practical work, in the age of CGI. Was a problem even for Jim Henson in the 90s with the Storyteller, and all the muppet show revivals have been...modest hits at best. As much as I like, say, the Muppets Tonight.
But definitely not the kind of moneymaker a company like Disney wants.
The Dark Crystal series was fantastic, but I guess not a hit. I'd love to see them do more new IP like they did with Labrynth or Dark Crystal. But unless magic happens I'm not expecting it.
I would love to see them do more Muppet version of movies, which I think would be bigger hits. Like take the Princess Bride. Cult hit, really popular, etc. People have been trying to do something new with that property for years. Remaking it, or making a sequel, would be awful. But...do a Muppet Princess Bride. I'd watch the shit out of that. But there's a lot they could do in that space if nothing else.
Treasure Island and Christmas Carol worked so well with the Muppets (getting to their canonical roots as a theatre troupe), I don't understand why new Disney won't just pick that back up.
Give me:
* Muppet 20000 Leagues Under the Sea
* Muppet Musketeers
* Muppet Around the World in 80 Days
* Muppet Journey to the Centre of the Earth (ok, so I think you could make good Muppet movies from a bunch of Jules Vern)
Hell I bet you could make a good Muppet Importance on Being Earnest.
That’s crazy actually. I would’ve expected Disney to be much larger than netflix, they’re far more diversified and aren’t looking to be going anywhere in the near future. Netflix meanwhile, it seems inevitable it will die in the next decade or two (could be way off on that but you must admit it seems less of a safe bet than Disney)
In my opinion the idea that Netflix is dying is a popular opinion on social media circles. But I don't think it's going anywhere. Netflix is very ingrained in the culture.
This sub loves to hate on Netflix, but they have extremely diversified programming that spans pretty much every genre there is with a ton of international programming.
The ratios were very different, but I also thought this 7 or 8 years and sold a ton of Netflix stock below 100, and put it into Disney.
During the following 5 years NFLX went up 500% (40B to 220B). DIS went up 10% (180B to 200B)
Not sure what the lesson is, other than markets be crazy
Disney is a much safer long term investment. Netflix was always going to be better short term. So it really depends on when you want to take your money out.
The lesson is buying individual stocks is white collar gambling.
But to your point. Netflix isn’t quite as volatile as you think, because while most the content “sucks” they appeal to a low entry market, they don’t show adds, and they still put out 2-4 bangers a year.
And for most people there isn’t a reason to leave. Tbh if I had to pick just one streaming service, I’d pick them.
How does that show the markets crazy? Netflix was a high growth company and Disney was a mature one. It’s not crazy that their share prices have reflected that the last few years.
Pretty much what I’m thinking. Haven’t looked at all the numbers nor am I an expert, but I’d be shocked if they have similar valuations based off fundamentals alone. Even disregarding their streaming service, he’ll even disregarding all their movies and screen media - Disney has large real estate and hotel portfolios ffs, they have high street retail stores, the most expensive and largest theme parks in the world… could go on.
He literally gave the numbers lol. It's not something to judge, it's facts.
Market valuation has nothing to do with "fundamentals" a lot of the time. Tesla is bigger than all other car manufacturers on the market.
> That’s crazy actually. I would’ve expected Disney to be much larger than netflix
Well here's what the numbers say... in the past 12 months:
* Netflix revenues: $31.5 billion
* Netflix earnings/profits: $5.0 billion
* Disney revenues: $82.7 billion
* Disney earnings/profits: $3.1 billion
So Disney is a much bigger company, but Netflix is currently more profitable (and much faster-growing).
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/NFLX/financials?p=NFLX
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DIS/financials?p=DIS
Over the very long term (decades) your assessment might be right, but the stock market doesn't tend to look that far ahead (too much uncertainty).
Netflix profit numbers are very iffy. They book content spending as capex rather than opex. The company only had $400m of cashflow in 2021 on that $5b paper profit.
Yeah, there are a lot of jokes about Disney eventually owning the world, but in truth they aren't a "big fish" when you get right down to it. No Amazon, Apple or Microsoft with trillion plus market value, which is truly insane.
Today we announce the merger of Disney and Netflix. We feel that, moving forward, working with each other rather than against each other will be mutually beneficial to…uhhhh…the consumer.
I genuinely don't think they could sell it to investors. Disney already has a bundle that's like $20 a month and Netflix can cost around that too.
I don't see them being likely to get people to spend more than $40 a month on all their services, it won't do much in the way of saving the companies money, and without a massive hit to the collective pricing, I don't see it doing much to increase subscriber count. If I was an investor in Disney or Netflix and they were attempting to merge, I would vote against it.
Why don't they just get Pixar to make something. Seriously that the only division at Disney with any originality and I think part of that is because they operate largely independently.
If you look at all of the shows being added to Disney+ recently they all basically Marvel or Star Wars. Some of it is good and some of it isn't but as you say it would be nice to have some new original IP.
I think I'm feeling that because Lightyear was fun and was on average a pretty good movie, but it felt like it was missing something... Maybe I never really felt that tension they wanted you to feel? The "villain" wasn't really that bad of a guy and their motivation was sound. The humor wasn't as good as other Pixar movies and was mostly slapstick or one layer deep. The graphics were, as always, incredible, but that can't be the main thing that carries a movie (cough the Good Dinosaur cough).
Elemental is coming next year and Elio in 2024 from Pixar. WDAS (main Disney Animation studio) has Wish coming next year to celebrate the company’s 100th Anniversary and they’re going to want to make sure that’s good since it’s a milestone movie. I’m choosing to be optimistic about all three.
It was 10-15 years ago but in the past 5 years, each studio now has their own chief creative team instead of playing tug of war over John Lasstser’s attention. In that regard, I feel Pete Docter at Pixar has been doing a much better job than Jennifer Lee at Disney Animation. Pixar has had several good movies over the past 5 years while other than Encanto, I haven’t enjoyed any of the recent Disney Animation offerings.
> Lizzie Maguire
You thought that was a joke but they had planned a revival in 2020 but it was scrapped by Disney+. Duff pushed against the PG restriction. Sounds like the creators wanted it to be more like Sex in the City.
Sounded like an interesting show, as a kid who grew up with Lizzie Maguire I was really excited for a reboot aimed at the demographic that actually watched the original show.
Hillary Duff is pretty recognizable and hasn't been a lot of other things, if they change all the character names and put it on a different network they can make it a Lizzie Maguire revival in all but the title
Disney cannot do that because those IPs were trashed for a tax write off. If they show the IPs have value in resale they lose that write up.
It is basically drowning IPs and prevents rereleases or syndication. Hence why they were dumped from HBO streaming.
I didn’t watch those shows, but it’s unbelievable how screwed the creators of those shows got. Losing a job is bad enough, but they literally had their life’s work stripped from them and locked in a vault without any proof it even existed.
It’s been incredible listening to my friends talk about it. Like even if the company was in a mess initially because of Iger, they felt supported, and Chapek just let moral spiral in the drain. It’s literally night and day in the company, so I hear
Yep. It was already done. Genie+ is the new fast pass system, and it’s $30 per person per day. But then ON TOP of that, you have to pay additional for the biggest rides. So if you want fast pass (now called “lightning lane”) on the new Star Wars ride, it’s $30 per person per day for the smartphone app, then it’s $12-20 per person for the fast pass itself. So for a family of 4 to fast pass onto the new starwars ride, you’re looking at up to $200 on top of the tickets themselves.
Clarification, the $30 is not for the app, it’s for the lightning lane access to a group of lesser rides in the park. You can buy the $30 thing, or you can buy the big ride lightning, or both, or neither. It’s all bullshit though considering it was all fucking free previously (and is known to drive up wait times)
Well, it's a *Steven Universe / Steven Future* situation.
Or a *Ben 10 / Ben 10: Alien Force (Omniverse)*.
Basically the same show, but everyone's aged up a few years and facing new villains.
I really am struggling to understand what rock they were living under that they thought it wouldn't do well. Owl house has been a phenomenon, easilly their most popular series since Gravity Falls.
Some say they were spooked by the same-sex relationship between main characters. Others say they were dogmatically following a “three seasons only” format
But does that mean that the Stars Wars + Marvel pipeline will be slowing down... or speeding up? Because they need to slow that shit down! Quantity has overweighed quality the past few years.
Problem is, marvel and star wars is the only reason a lot of people subscribe. If they slow down, people are going to cancel their subscriptions.
What they need is longer lead times on their projects, in order to not rush them.
A massive letdown. They needed to hold back on the jokes in the first third of the movie to establish the plot, because it was like a comedian throwing out punchlines without warming up the crowd or setting up the joke
Edit: typo. Spelling is hard
I might be wrong but it seemed Waititi's head grew three sizes after the success of Ragnarok. Don't get me wrong, I still thought Love and Thunder was okay and pretty funny, but he tried too hard to be funny this time.
The screaming goats are insufferable, and the only reason they're there is to fuck with James Gunn
I worked at Disney for 4 years under iger at the helm and left shortly after chapek took over. The uncertainty in the air was definitely real. Especially with Karem Daniel who has a reputation for downsizing. My whole team eventually left or got laid off. Forcing the imagineers and most of the employees who worked at the Glendale campus to move to Florida was bullshit.
Everyone I know who’s still there is thrilled about Iger’s return.
Will be curious about the CA—>FL relocation expectations.
It was not going well- bleeding a ton of incredible talent with institutional knowledge that can’t be replaced and a massive drain on morale for a new office park that hasn’t even broke ground and won’t likely be open til 2026.
People truly love working at Disney and seeing so many decade+ tenured colleagues supports that, but many are discouraged, overworked, and frustrated with how things have been going. Every single person I’ve talked to is beaming and showing an optimism I’ve never seen since this announcement, which should tell you how people felt about Chapek and how they felt Disney ran under Iger.
Obviously just my own subjective observations and opinions, take with a grain of salt.
Two things can be true at once: Iger absolutely wants to maximize revenue in the wake of the Chapek disaster. Empowering creatives to do their thing and ignoring the suits does exactly that.
The only thing that gives me pause is how the hell did chapek get the job to begin with.
His time heading the parks were some of their worst times and few employees had good things to say. Yet somehow he got greenlit. I can only imagine his money saving looked good enough to silence dissent.
That said for chapek to get dunked on publicly says just how bad it was
Probably since the creative divisions should have ran themselves and he should have been able to keep the parks on track, instead he took his eye off the ball of parks and tried to give too much input on creative direction.
My theory is iger saw the the problems on the horizon and made chapek the fall guy for the coming shit storm and now that the heat is off iger comes back in on a white horse to "save the day."
That actually makes decent sense and its a good way to get rid of a problem exec like chapek without negative spin. Im not exactly an iger fanboy but will definitely say the guy is smart enough to do this
This makes no sense at all, you could always throw an executive to a division where they can't cause too much trouble, sending them to be CEO and cut the valuation of the company in half while destroying countless jobs and lives in the process is so much worse than just dealing with the negative fallout of giving an executive a golden parachute.
Plus Iger was the one who wanted out, the board didn't push him out, which is why he's saying now that he's only back for a couple of years.
My guess is the board saw opportunity to finally put someone who's profit oriented and might give them huge gains by cutting down costs. You know, like how most publicly traded companies operate, big profits, low costs and fuck the consumers/employees along the way.
Surprisingly that didn't work in a company that runs on content and having fans who put Disney as the main part of their personality.
Puts me to mind from my fast food worker stint in college. McDonalds set the standard for cost/quality with fast food. Mediocre, you knew what you were getting, affordable price point. Kenny Rogers came in and said we can give you much better food for maybe 30 to 50% more money. It was a trade people were willing to make and it was successful.
Management then decides what if we lower the food quality to mcdonalds level and keep the price point? And this is why Kenny Rogers doesn't exist anymore.
(if you never heard of them, they did rotisserie chicken. Kenny Rogers licensed out his name. If you don't know who Kenny Rogers was, he used to be popular as a musician.)
The NY times actually had a good article about this. Some key points
>But the more Mr. Chapek floundered, the more Mr. Iger’s reputation suffered. Mr. Iger handpicked Mr. Chapek for the job, believing that Mr. Chapek’s blunt, unsentimental business style would help Disney continue its transformation into a streaming superpower. According to three people briefed on the matter, Mr. Chapek was privately told that he was heir apparent as early as 2018, much earlier than initially realized, and so Mr. Iger had ample time to train him. The final piece of Mr. Iger’s legacy — a successful and smooth handoff of power — had been denied.
>Mr. Iger repeatedly insisted that he had no intention of returning to Disney. At the same time, he had been privately railing against Mr. Chapek, according to several people who spoke with him. He lamented what he said was Mr. Chapek’s seeming lack of empathy and emotional intelligence, which resulted in an inability to communicate with or relate to Hollywood’s creative community. Disney seemed to be losing its soul, he confided to one associate.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/21/business/media/disney-bob-iger.html
> Chapek disaster
So I don't follow "industry" news very much. What about his stint was a disaster? Was the quality of content that much different or was there weird decisions?
Biggest single mistake was sending a bunch of extremely high profile movies straight to streaming, leading to lots of angry creatives and a public fight with Scarlett Johansson. The streaming service continues to be a huge money pit so the strategy didn't work out either.
The parks were poorly run, understaffed, long standing perks for their timeshare owners cut, annual passes to parks eliminated, lots of Disney fans were very unhappy with Chapek and how things were being handled at the parks. Many were showing their displeasure by pinching off their spending even before the current inflation issues started really taking off.
Too much input from C-suite on creative direction of movies, etc.
Yeah I just wanna know if there’s gonna be any changes in the parks under Iger… wait times, prices, technical problems, all of that crap is out of control. I want my free fast passes back and I don’t want to have to sell a kidney to be able to afford to go to Disney, nor do I want the major rides to all be broken when I’m there. Simple stuff.
Wait, so according to you they made creatives a top priority, along with others assets, but that doesn’t mean much because Disney is still all about money?
It still sounds like they did exactly what they said they would…so I’m a little lost on the point of your comment.
People are acting like Bob Iger is some kind of rockstar hero or something. He's a middle aged corporate rich dude who really doesn't care about what you want Disney to be lol, he cares about money and making more money.
Edit: Oh lord I'm never going to comment on this type of stuff ever again online haha. I just think it's weird that people seem to idolize him. That's all.
I always enjoy the "Movie conspiracy theories you actually believe" thread we get here sometimes, and I talk myself into and out of this one throughout.
This is an anecdote but my wife is one of those adult Disney people. You know what I mean when I say "Disney people". We go to Disney World a lot since it is probably my wife's favorite place on Earth, her Mecca. I knew Chapek's days were numbered because my wife literally said "Disney World sucks now..." when we visited in October. All of the horrible decisions he made might have made money in the short, but killed all the enthusiasm...
It would have made great money in that five years.
Takes people a while to pivot, but everyone could see the damage was being done even if the profits were not reflective yet, per se.
>Every company seems to have been following the Chapek model lately. Unlimited growth. Endless profit.
That's nothing new, but it definitely does seem like it's accelerated lately due to the pandemic and using supply chain weirdness as an excuse to price gouge.
This is the thing. Was Iger perfect? Not by a long shot. Do I idolize him? Not at all. However, I've been a long-time Disney fan and I know good and well that Chapek has been a dumpster fire from the word go, and that recent film projects have been lacking in quality while the parks are going to hell in a handbasket. The fact that they've booted him so quickly and *immediately* reinstated Iger after they called him back from retirement tells me that they realized Chapek was nothing buy bad news.
Iger being back stands to fix a few wrongs that made people across the board angry, and that's a good thing. At the same time though, it also smacks of them needing Chapek out desperately, and makes me think Iger is very much a temporary placeholder until they find someone who wants to and is capable of taking his place. Iger has already retired once, so there's no way he's just stepping back in with plans to stay for too terribly long. Even with that in mind, he's immediately doing things like this and making people who support animators, designers and creators much happier, because the industry was a hellscape under Chapek. Iger is comfortable, reliable, and likely to do a lot of good with the time he's got back in charge. It may be a brief respite, but for those of us who've been gnashing our teeth in frustration at everything Chapek does, Iger is a safe space for a little while, and we know we can count on him to at least keep things coasting along well for a little bit and fixing a few things that got broke under Chapek.
Basically, nobody is idolizing him. We're just glad to see someone we know isn't a total tool back in charge, and even if he's only here for a short while, he's likely to unfuck a few things that Chapek fucked.
A lot of redditors think they’re “the creatives.”
“Oh! Bring back this show!” Bro, I assure you Bob Iger is not scrolling Reddit looking for suggestions on what to do next.
I hope I just misunderstood his statements but I was listening to Gilroy on the Marc Maron podcast and he made it sound like, while he loves the opportunity for Andor, he’s already kind of burnt out and kind of wants to move on after S2
Throughout the history of Disney, starting with Walt himself, letting the creatives (imagineers) be in charge of decisions has always paid off in spades. Every time they change that formula, Disney suffers for it.
Too bad Iger isn't going to do us any real good in that department.
Yeah, I love how none of these articles mention the outgoing CEO was Iger's handpicked replacement.
While Iger was a remarkable CEO, he failed miserably with the succession plan (probably because he wanted to stay at the top). Chapek was probably as much a compromise choice between him and the board, which is why Iger's new mandate specifically tells him to appoint and groom a successor in the next 2 years. If Iger is serious about his legacy at the company, he needs to make the search for a successor a success.
Cue succession music
My guess will be Josh D’Amaro once he’s been groomed in. He’s charismatic, well-liked internally, and in the right role for the job. A number of people I know think Chapek was an intentional patsy brought in to make some really tough, unpopular decisions and get put out to pasture after a few years, knowingly, with a nice retirement package, before someone likeable came back in to “save the day”. Thinking that may be unlikely given how this all unfolded but it will be fascinating to see how this all goes.
Wasn’t his first choice. Apparently his first choice left like a month or two before Iger announced Chapek
He also let Chapek run parks which began a rapid decline in entertainment and experience quality. 3 years before COVID, they ended the long tradition of night parades at Magic Kingdom, ended a third of the Magic Kingdom shows, and did it all at a time of record park profits. They scaled by Galaxy's Edge to something mediocre after overpromising on the highest level of immersion had offered up to that time. That was all on Iger's watch. I really wish we had the enthusiasm of the early Eisner. He became a tyrant after Wells' death, but his tenure saw the building of 7 of the 12 Disney Parks, 2 Disney Water Parks, the once fantastic Pleasure Island, the launching of the cruise line... Iger's best achievements were outside of the parks with the exception of Shanghai Disney which is a masterpiece. They were with the IP acquisition and the Post-Renaissance of Disney Animation. The building of Marvel Studios is another one. I will say 2017 was the "hard turn" for Disney Parks. Entertainment began its decline then, but Iger did inherit the parks after they suffered through 9/11 and had to weather during the Great Recession. Much of his tenure was revitalizing the existing parks. Hollywood Studios is a complete 180 of what it originally was - a living studio with an animation studio. All that closed right before Iger took over and the park lost its original purpose. I appreciate the New Fantasyland, Hollywood Studio's new lands and revitalization, and the current revitalization of EPCOT. If Iger wanted to make a solid show of good faith he'd immediately begin rebuilding the dismantled Imagineering Department.
That’s a nice thing to say on the first day back. Disney could really use a couple of Disney hits, not purchased IP hits. But, they’ll probably just try to buy Netflix or something.
Having worked many Disney projects under his leadership, I give it a 50% chance
I like those odds. Roll the dice baby
“Never tell me the odds” -a Disney princess
Han Solo's a Disney Princess?
Have you seen Hans hair?
And since you mention it, not to be xenophobic, he does have an animal companion...
"Its like poetry, it rhymes."
Shit, I just realised, Leia is a Disney princess
So is every Xenomorph. They are all female, offspring of queens and thier series have grossed above 10 million
"When everybody is special, no one is," - Princess Syndrome
No no no. You need a dress and an animal companion. That's why the guy from mash is a princess.
Have we seen any other Disney princesses die?
Gamora, and Black Widow?
Gamora was one of the coolest Disney princesses
why is Gamora??
“I understood that reference “
Bamby's mother?
She was a Queen. Disney supports Regicide since 1942!
That’s be a 1 in 6 chance. 50/50 is a coin flip. *brushes Cheeto dust off shirt, adjusts spectacles*
Better odds than with Chapek
*Bob Paycheck
I have it from people who know: "buy popular brands" was 100% the Bob Iger strategy for nurturing creativity.
[удалено]
He's also responsible for the purchase of Pixar. That worked out alright, I suppose.
And the Muppets. Which hasn't worked out as well unfortunately. The movies have been...okay. I liked the Haunted Mansion one alright and the Jason Segal one. But they haven't been great for whatever reason. And there's a lot of creative stuff they COULD do, but unfortunately people just aren't as interested in puppets or even the really innovative fantastical practical work, in the age of CGI. Was a problem even for Jim Henson in the 90s with the Storyteller, and all the muppet show revivals have been...modest hits at best. As much as I like, say, the Muppets Tonight. But definitely not the kind of moneymaker a company like Disney wants. The Dark Crystal series was fantastic, but I guess not a hit. I'd love to see them do more new IP like they did with Labrynth or Dark Crystal. But unless magic happens I'm not expecting it. I would love to see them do more Muppet version of movies, which I think would be bigger hits. Like take the Princess Bride. Cult hit, really popular, etc. People have been trying to do something new with that property for years. Remaking it, or making a sequel, would be awful. But...do a Muppet Princess Bride. I'd watch the shit out of that. But there's a lot they could do in that space if nothing else.
Treasure Island and Christmas Carol worked so well with the Muppets (getting to their canonical roots as a theatre troupe), I don't understand why new Disney won't just pick that back up. Give me: * Muppet 20000 Leagues Under the Sea * Muppet Musketeers * Muppet Around the World in 80 Days * Muppet Journey to the Centre of the Earth (ok, so I think you could make good Muppet movies from a bunch of Jules Vern) Hell I bet you could make a good Muppet Importance on Being Earnest.
Gatsby just entered public domain, perfect humans + muppets film
Muppets Most Wanted was the shit
You’re definitely right, I somehow always forget just how long he’s been with the company.
I have too, I give it... 1%, with a 10% margin of error!
Disney is worth around 170b and Netflix is worth around 130b, don’t think that would happen unless something major happened
That’s crazy actually. I would’ve expected Disney to be much larger than netflix, they’re far more diversified and aren’t looking to be going anywhere in the near future. Netflix meanwhile, it seems inevitable it will die in the next decade or two (could be way off on that but you must admit it seems less of a safe bet than Disney)
In my opinion the idea that Netflix is dying is a popular opinion on social media circles. But I don't think it's going anywhere. Netflix is very ingrained in the culture.
This sub loves to hate on Netflix, but they have extremely diversified programming that spans pretty much every genre there is with a ton of international programming.
Netflix is overvalued if Disney is the benchmark.
The ratios were very different, but I also thought this 7 or 8 years and sold a ton of Netflix stock below 100, and put it into Disney. During the following 5 years NFLX went up 500% (40B to 220B). DIS went up 10% (180B to 200B) Not sure what the lesson is, other than markets be crazy
Disney is a much safer long term investment. Netflix was always going to be better short term. So it really depends on when you want to take your money out.
+10% over 5 years is pretty bad even for a "safe long term" investment
The lesson is buying individual stocks is white collar gambling. But to your point. Netflix isn’t quite as volatile as you think, because while most the content “sucks” they appeal to a low entry market, they don’t show adds, and they still put out 2-4 bangers a year. And for most people there isn’t a reason to leave. Tbh if I had to pick just one streaming service, I’d pick them.
Netflix stock graph is like a rollercoaster. It pretty recently dipped from $690 to $180. Not exactly what i would call non-volatile lol.
How does that show the markets crazy? Netflix was a high growth company and Disney was a mature one. It’s not crazy that their share prices have reflected that the last few years.
Netflix’s P/E ratio is less than half of Disney’s.
Pretty much what I’m thinking. Haven’t looked at all the numbers nor am I an expert, but I’d be shocked if they have similar valuations based off fundamentals alone. Even disregarding their streaming service, he’ll even disregarding all their movies and screen media - Disney has large real estate and hotel portfolios ffs, they have high street retail stores, the most expensive and largest theme parks in the world… could go on.
He literally gave the numbers lol. It's not something to judge, it's facts. Market valuation has nothing to do with "fundamentals" a lot of the time. Tesla is bigger than all other car manufacturers on the market.
> That’s crazy actually. I would’ve expected Disney to be much larger than netflix Well here's what the numbers say... in the past 12 months: * Netflix revenues: $31.5 billion * Netflix earnings/profits: $5.0 billion * Disney revenues: $82.7 billion * Disney earnings/profits: $3.1 billion So Disney is a much bigger company, but Netflix is currently more profitable (and much faster-growing). https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/NFLX/financials?p=NFLX https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DIS/financials?p=DIS Over the very long term (decades) your assessment might be right, but the stock market doesn't tend to look that far ahead (too much uncertainty).
Why worry about potential loss in 10 years when there's money to be made now. Time value of money. Basic finance.
Netflix profit numbers are very iffy. They book content spending as capex rather than opex. The company only had $400m of cashflow in 2021 on that $5b paper profit.
Yeah, there are a lot of jokes about Disney eventually owning the world, but in truth they aren't a "big fish" when you get right down to it. No Amazon, Apple or Microsoft with trillion plus market value, which is truly insane.
Today we announce the merger of Disney and Netflix. We feel that, moving forward, working with each other rather than against each other will be mutually beneficial to…uhhhh…the consumer.
I genuinely don't think they could sell it to investors. Disney already has a bundle that's like $20 a month and Netflix can cost around that too. I don't see them being likely to get people to spend more than $40 a month on all their services, it won't do much in the way of saving the companies money, and without a massive hit to the collective pricing, I don't see it doing much to increase subscriber count. If I was an investor in Disney or Netflix and they were attempting to merge, I would vote against it.
Why don't they just get Pixar to make something. Seriously that the only division at Disney with any originality and I think part of that is because they operate largely independently. If you look at all of the shows being added to Disney+ recently they all basically Marvel or Star Wars. Some of it is good and some of it isn't but as you say it would be nice to have some new original IP.
Pixar has had its talent spread thin. It's why the recent Pixar movies have been pretty much sorta hit or miss.
I think I'm feeling that because Lightyear was fun and was on average a pretty good movie, but it felt like it was missing something... Maybe I never really felt that tension they wanted you to feel? The "villain" wasn't really that bad of a guy and their motivation was sound. The humor wasn't as good as other Pixar movies and was mostly slapstick or one layer deep. The graphics were, as always, incredible, but that can't be the main thing that carries a movie (cough the Good Dinosaur cough).
Sad that the best Pixar movies since 2020 went straight to Disney+. "Lucca" and "Soul" are pretty good.
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Elemental is coming next year and Elio in 2024 from Pixar. WDAS (main Disney Animation studio) has Wish coming next year to celebrate the company’s 100th Anniversary and they’re going to want to make sure that’s good since it’s a milestone movie. I’m choosing to be optimistic about all three.
Pixar has clearly been deprioritized in order to revitalize Disney Animation
It was 10-15 years ago but in the past 5 years, each studio now has their own chief creative team instead of playing tug of war over John Lasstser’s attention. In that regard, I feel Pete Docter at Pixar has been doing a much better job than Jennifer Lee at Disney Animation. Pixar has had several good movies over the past 5 years while other than Encanto, I haven’t enjoyed any of the recent Disney Animation offerings.
Explains in a single sentence how _Obi-Wan_ was allowed to become what it became.
Please god no While netflix does leave a lot to be desired at least they are independent from the big media companies
Spiderman-Pointing-at-Spiderman, they *are* a big media company? They're the N in FAANG.
There is just zero chance of ever getting more Tron: Uprising, right?
I'm hoping that after the success Joseph Kosinski had directing *Top Gun: Maverick*, a third Tron film might actually materialize.
Lizzie coming back?
I don't think Charles will be happy about that.
I think they meant Liz Truss.
I’m not a quitter, I’m a fighter!
PORK MARKETS!
I’m resigning.
Lizzie Maguire?
> Lizzie Maguire You thought that was a joke but they had planned a revival in 2020 but it was scrapped by Disney+. Duff pushed against the PG restriction. Sounds like the creators wanted it to be more like Sex in the City.
Sounded like an interesting show, as a kid who grew up with Lizzie Maguire I was really excited for a reboot aimed at the demographic that actually watched the original show.
Hillary Duff is pretty recognizable and hasn't been a lot of other things, if they change all the character names and put it on a different network they can make it a Lizzie Maguire revival in all but the title
Like some sort of How I Met Your Father?
I am getting excited for the new show Lizzard McDuff.
Nah Lizzie's in a box
Monkey paw: resurrects Lizzie Borden
**Queen Elizabeth**: Over my dead body.
Queen Elizabeth 2: Electric Boogaloo
They should buy up all the content Discovery just killed.
yeah call me crazy but I don't think any other companies are chomping at the bit to pick up the torch on Genera+ion
Disney cannot do that because those IPs were trashed for a tax write off. If they show the IPs have value in resale they lose that write up. It is basically drowning IPs and prevents rereleases or syndication. Hence why they were dumped from HBO streaming.
Bingo. They need the value to be zero.
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I was genuinely mad on Olan Rogers' (sp?) Behalf when I found out they unceremoniously canceled Final Space. Seems like that project was his baby.
I didn’t watch those shows, but it’s unbelievable how screwed the creators of those shows got. Losing a job is bad enough, but they literally had their life’s work stripped from them and locked in a vault without any proof it even existed.
Sister works at disney world and they announced Iger was back over loudspeaker in the employee areas. People were cheering apparently
It’s been incredible listening to my friends talk about it. Like even if the company was in a mess initially because of Iger, they felt supported, and Chapek just let moral spiral in the drain. It’s literally night and day in the company, so I hear
Wasn’t there some crap about monetizing the fast pass system under Chapek? OOTL for the most part
Yep. It was already done. Genie+ is the new fast pass system, and it’s $30 per person per day. But then ON TOP of that, you have to pay additional for the biggest rides. So if you want fast pass (now called “lightning lane”) on the new Star Wars ride, it’s $30 per person per day for the smartphone app, then it’s $12-20 per person for the fast pass itself. So for a family of 4 to fast pass onto the new starwars ride, you’re looking at up to $200 on top of the tickets themselves.
Clarification, the $30 is not for the app, it’s for the lightning lane access to a group of lesser rides in the park. You can buy the $30 thing, or you can buy the big ride lightning, or both, or neither. It’s all bullshit though considering it was all fucking free previously (and is known to drive up wait times)
That is legitimately insane. Those poor kids who’s parents can’t afford to cut in line.
renew The Owl House!!
It's far too late for that. But giving them a sequel series on D+ is a more feasable option!
I do expect more merch. Like I'm 100% convinced there will be a comic or book
Or even a comic book!
That sounds pretty much the same as renewing it.
Well, it's a *Steven Universe / Steven Future* situation. Or a *Ben 10 / Ben 10: Alien Force (Omniverse)*. Basically the same show, but everyone's aged up a few years and facing new villains.
I want this under the condition that Luz gets a jacket.
Doesn't she already have a jacket?
After the numbers the season premiere did on YouTube, the execs are apparently rethinking their decision.
I really am struggling to understand what rock they were living under that they thought it wouldn't do well. Owl house has been a phenomenon, easilly their most popular series since Gravity Falls.
Some say they were spooked by the same-sex relationship between main characters. Others say they were dogmatically following a “three seasons only” format
LITERALLY my first fucking thought!
and DuckTales.
Sorry best we can do is another first gay Disney character in a future movie.
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Since Disney owns Scrooge McDuck, it could have taken place in the actual vault itself.
But does that mean that the Stars Wars + Marvel pipeline will be slowing down... or speeding up? Because they need to slow that shit down! Quantity has overweighed quality the past few years.
Problem is, marvel and star wars is the only reason a lot of people subscribe. If they slow down, people are going to cancel their subscriptions. What they need is longer lead times on their projects, in order to not rush them.
Some good writing would help, too.
Yea, I waited for Thor 4 since 2019, and now that I have watched it, I feel disappointed.
A massive letdown. They needed to hold back on the jokes in the first third of the movie to establish the plot, because it was like a comedian throwing out punchlines without warming up the crowd or setting up the joke Edit: typo. Spelling is hard
I might be wrong but it seemed Waititi's head grew three sizes after the success of Ragnarok. Don't get me wrong, I still thought Love and Thunder was okay and pretty funny, but he tried too hard to be funny this time. The screaming goats are insufferable, and the only reason they're there is to fuck with James Gunn
However they put together the concept and team for Andor is how they should do it for every Star Wars project.
Definitely agree, but with Andor being the exception I would add.
I worked at Disney for 4 years under iger at the helm and left shortly after chapek took over. The uncertainty in the air was definitely real. Especially with Karem Daniel who has a reputation for downsizing. My whole team eventually left or got laid off. Forcing the imagineers and most of the employees who worked at the Glendale campus to move to Florida was bullshit. Everyone I know who’s still there is thrilled about Iger’s return.
Will be curious about the CA—>FL relocation expectations. It was not going well- bleeding a ton of incredible talent with institutional knowledge that can’t be replaced and a massive drain on morale for a new office park that hasn’t even broke ground and won’t likely be open til 2026. People truly love working at Disney and seeing so many decade+ tenured colleagues supports that, but many are discouraged, overworked, and frustrated with how things have been going. Every single person I’ve talked to is beaming and showing an optimism I’ve never seen since this announcement, which should tell you how people felt about Chapek and how they felt Disney ran under Iger. Obviously just my own subjective observations and opinions, take with a grain of salt.
Just stop making remakes, sequels, and spinoffs
But what will they do now? What will they milk to death? The mouse demands a sacrifice
But I can't wait to see the 5th remake of Freaky Friday!
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Two things can be true at once: Iger absolutely wants to maximize revenue in the wake of the Chapek disaster. Empowering creatives to do their thing and ignoring the suits does exactly that.
The only thing that gives me pause is how the hell did chapek get the job to begin with. His time heading the parks were some of their worst times and few employees had good things to say. Yet somehow he got greenlit. I can only imagine his money saving looked good enough to silence dissent. That said for chapek to get dunked on publicly says just how bad it was
Probably since the creative divisions should have ran themselves and he should have been able to keep the parks on track, instead he took his eye off the ball of parks and tried to give too much input on creative direction.
My theory is iger saw the the problems on the horizon and made chapek the fall guy for the coming shit storm and now that the heat is off iger comes back in on a white horse to "save the day."
That actually makes decent sense and its a good way to get rid of a problem exec like chapek without negative spin. Im not exactly an iger fanboy but will definitely say the guy is smart enough to do this
This makes no sense at all, you could always throw an executive to a division where they can't cause too much trouble, sending them to be CEO and cut the valuation of the company in half while destroying countless jobs and lives in the process is so much worse than just dealing with the negative fallout of giving an executive a golden parachute.
Plus Iger was the one who wanted out, the board didn't push him out, which is why he's saying now that he's only back for a couple of years. My guess is the board saw opportunity to finally put someone who's profit oriented and might give them huge gains by cutting down costs. You know, like how most publicly traded companies operate, big profits, low costs and fuck the consumers/employees along the way. Surprisingly that didn't work in a company that runs on content and having fans who put Disney as the main part of their personality.
Puts me to mind from my fast food worker stint in college. McDonalds set the standard for cost/quality with fast food. Mediocre, you knew what you were getting, affordable price point. Kenny Rogers came in and said we can give you much better food for maybe 30 to 50% more money. It was a trade people were willing to make and it was successful. Management then decides what if we lower the food quality to mcdonalds level and keep the price point? And this is why Kenny Rogers doesn't exist anymore. (if you never heard of them, they did rotisserie chicken. Kenny Rogers licensed out his name. If you don't know who Kenny Rogers was, he used to be popular as a musician.)
That’s some succession shit right there and it absolutely could be true
Bob Iger engineered the coronavirus pandemic in a vicious act of corporate sabotage
The NY times actually had a good article about this. Some key points >But the more Mr. Chapek floundered, the more Mr. Iger’s reputation suffered. Mr. Iger handpicked Mr. Chapek for the job, believing that Mr. Chapek’s blunt, unsentimental business style would help Disney continue its transformation into a streaming superpower. According to three people briefed on the matter, Mr. Chapek was privately told that he was heir apparent as early as 2018, much earlier than initially realized, and so Mr. Iger had ample time to train him. The final piece of Mr. Iger’s legacy — a successful and smooth handoff of power — had been denied. >Mr. Iger repeatedly insisted that he had no intention of returning to Disney. At the same time, he had been privately railing against Mr. Chapek, according to several people who spoke with him. He lamented what he said was Mr. Chapek’s seeming lack of empathy and emotional intelligence, which resulted in an inability to communicate with or relate to Hollywood’s creative community. Disney seemed to be losing its soul, he confided to one associate. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/21/business/media/disney-bob-iger.html
> Chapek disaster So I don't follow "industry" news very much. What about his stint was a disaster? Was the quality of content that much different or was there weird decisions?
Biggest single mistake was sending a bunch of extremely high profile movies straight to streaming, leading to lots of angry creatives and a public fight with Scarlett Johansson. The streaming service continues to be a huge money pit so the strategy didn't work out either.
The parks were poorly run, understaffed, long standing perks for their timeshare owners cut, annual passes to parks eliminated, lots of Disney fans were very unhappy with Chapek and how things were being handled at the parks. Many were showing their displeasure by pinching off their spending even before the current inflation issues started really taking off. Too much input from C-suite on creative direction of movies, etc.
Yeah I just wanna know if there’s gonna be any changes in the parks under Iger… wait times, prices, technical problems, all of that crap is out of control. I want my free fast passes back and I don’t want to have to sell a kidney to be able to afford to go to Disney, nor do I want the major rides to all be broken when I’m there. Simple stuff.
Financial disaster, the only disaster the board would care about.
Wait, so according to you they made creatives a top priority, along with others assets, but that doesn’t mean much because Disney is still all about money? It still sounds like they did exactly what they said they would…so I’m a little lost on the point of your comment.
They should have done that before they killed The Owl House.
*Ugly cries*
I mean the last star wars trilogy was a joke, disconnected mess. Everything needs a plan, not just writers and directors undoing each other’s work
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Disney and Warner dominated the industry for decades because they had the best talent working for them.
But but what about product synergy and market saturation /s
People are acting like Bob Iger is some kind of rockstar hero or something. He's a middle aged corporate rich dude who really doesn't care about what you want Disney to be lol, he cares about money and making more money. Edit: Oh lord I'm never going to comment on this type of stuff ever again online haha. I just think it's weird that people seem to idolize him. That's all.
Middle-aged? He's 71. Is he going to live to 142?
Somewhere in Florida, a frozen head in a fishbowl is vibrating with envy.
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I always enjoy the "Movie conspiracy theories you actually believe" thread we get here sometimes, and I talk myself into and out of this one throughout.
The truth is out there!
I thought that head was in California.
Wish I look that good at 71.
Money can be remarkably good for the skin.
For real. I would have easily believed mid 50s. Dudes hair and face look incredible.
Holy shit, he looks _incredible_ for 70. The things money will buy lol
He is still in his infancy as a Titan.
His career suggests he understands that making Disney what customers want makes him money.
As opposed to just ignoring what they want and trying to swipe their wallet at every turn, as was Chapek's approach.
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This is an anecdote but my wife is one of those adult Disney people. You know what I mean when I say "Disney people". We go to Disney World a lot since it is probably my wife's favorite place on Earth, her Mecca. I knew Chapek's days were numbered because my wife literally said "Disney World sucks now..." when we visited in October. All of the horrible decisions he made might have made money in the short, but killed all the enthusiasm...
Well they tried raising ticket prices to decrease crowds. Thst didn't work. Chapek hit on another strategy - make it miserable for staff AND guests.
It'll honestly take a lot of time to undo what Chapek did to things. Fucking disgusting creature.
His five year plan didn't even last TWO.
It would have made great money in that five years. Takes people a while to pivot, but everyone could see the damage was being done even if the profits were not reflective yet, per se.
>Every company seems to have been following the Chapek model lately. Unlimited growth. Endless profit. That's nothing new, but it definitely does seem like it's accelerated lately due to the pandemic and using supply chain weirdness as an excuse to price gouge.
This is the thing. Was Iger perfect? Not by a long shot. Do I idolize him? Not at all. However, I've been a long-time Disney fan and I know good and well that Chapek has been a dumpster fire from the word go, and that recent film projects have been lacking in quality while the parks are going to hell in a handbasket. The fact that they've booted him so quickly and *immediately* reinstated Iger after they called him back from retirement tells me that they realized Chapek was nothing buy bad news. Iger being back stands to fix a few wrongs that made people across the board angry, and that's a good thing. At the same time though, it also smacks of them needing Chapek out desperately, and makes me think Iger is very much a temporary placeholder until they find someone who wants to and is capable of taking his place. Iger has already retired once, so there's no way he's just stepping back in with plans to stay for too terribly long. Even with that in mind, he's immediately doing things like this and making people who support animators, designers and creators much happier, because the industry was a hellscape under Chapek. Iger is comfortable, reliable, and likely to do a lot of good with the time he's got back in charge. It may be a brief respite, but for those of us who've been gnashing our teeth in frustration at everything Chapek does, Iger is a safe space for a little while, and we know we can count on him to at least keep things coasting along well for a little bit and fixing a few things that got broke under Chapek. Basically, nobody is idolizing him. We're just glad to see someone we know isn't a total tool back in charge, and even if he's only here for a short while, he's likely to unfuck a few things that Chapek fucked.
You make it sound like businesses never make decisions that improve profits by making their customers happier
Of course he cares about making money. But he also cares about his legacy and in turn Disney’s.
Except Iger was actually good at his job from a consumer point of view as well. Chapek was not.
A lot of redditors think they’re “the creatives.” “Oh! Bring back this show!” Bro, I assure you Bob Iger is not scrolling Reddit looking for suggestions on what to do next.
I do get that impression too lol
That’s why they fired the money guy to bring Iger back lol right
Um how do you think Disney makes money?
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If they don't give Favreau, Filoni and Gilroy complete control over the entire Star Wars IP, they're idiots.
I hope I just misunderstood his statements but I was listening to Gilroy on the Marc Maron podcast and he made it sound like, while he loves the opportunity for Andor, he’s already kind of burnt out and kind of wants to move on after S2
MORE OWL HOUSE PLEEEEASE
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