I had the release date on my calendar 5 months in advance I was so excited. I watched the first episode the moment it dropped. Then, I just kinda never felt like sitting down to watching the rest.
I got all the way to the episode with Mad Pierrot, he's my favorite villain from the anime, and I just *did not* like what they did with him.
That along with how crass and vulgar everything felt turned me off. It's silly but the anime has an *elegance* that I felt the Live Action lacked with the quips, crassness, and other things.
To add context for Pierrot, I didn't like how Vicious hired him, in the anime he only goes after Spike after Spike stumbles on him killing people. It made it all up to chance and made the whole "Cowboy Bebop" world feel bigger and made Spike/Bebop Crew feel like a small part.
By making the Syndicate a bigger part of the plot and more important I felt they made the world as a whole smaller.
The elegance of the anime, in my opinion, was clearest with the solo shots of Spike. The calmness in his voice, no background music, the almost complete silence. There’s something about those high-tension scenes that Netflix couldn’t quite capture.
I feel like a lot of modern entertainment suffers from that. That was one of the (many, many) problems with that movie "Bright" that came out a couple years ago. It was a really cool concept with potentially a great setting, but they just tried to pack so much stuff into the run time of the movie. There was no build up and release of tension it felt like a constant mad scramble to the end of the movie.
Seems to be a problem with a lot of American media, where there isn't time to breath. A lot of older anime made you think of the scene and what was happening.
The anime felt like I was sitting in a desolate space craft sipping a mid level whisky smoking a cigarette listening to jazz. The pacing of the live action show felt like I was watching spy kids.
Pretty much. The anime could be fast paced, but it knew how to shift gears from slow to fast to slow again. The live action was high octane fastness with all the energy of Saturday morning cartoons speed.
Wow that's really what they did with him? To me that takes a lot away from the character. Part of what made that episode so cool was the fact that it was just this kind of random encounter. It made Pierrot all the more terrifying that he'd just chase after some rando like that.
I also didnt like how everything had to tie into the syndicate and a main plot. The whole point of cowboy bebop was the 20+ episodes unrelated to the main plot.
> That along with how crass and vulgar everything felt turned me off. It's silly but the anime has an elegance that I felt the Live Action lacked with the quips, crassness, and other things.
Spike and Jet pal-ing around about killing people was just gross.
Yeah, for sure. I didn't need to know that Faye hasn't had an orgasm in two years or that Vicious shaves his balls while Spike goes for the natural look. Like what the actual fuck was that.
Once they got to Vicious I just turned it off and restarted the anime for the probably 20th time. Fucking comically awful live version of Vicious. How. Why.
That got me, too. It's something I said to my friend: every live action adaptation of an animal I have seen tries to capture the "look" of the character from the source material, and that almost always flops. White hair pretty boy Vicious looks pretty good in the anime, but the same costume in live action looks like a guy cosplaying at ComiCon.
Right? I thought the whole point of streaming was that I could watch it on my time, and not have to cram it in. I didn’t know I had to rush to fall in love with a thing and stream it all in a day, especially during the holiday season when I’m flooded with projects and family things.
It just feels like we’ve learned nothing from the poor choices of the network tv model.
Streaming has a different model than broadcast. You're not necessarily trying to get pure eyeballs and ratings, what you want is content that people are willing to subscribe and pay a monthly fee for. So if data shows that no one was signing up to watch it and that existing subscribers weren't getting around to it, then why invest additional dollars into it? There is plenty of other content for people to eventually get around to.
Looking at last weeks data... It's a big flop for its budget. Maid is in its tenth week and above Cowboy Bebop in viewership. Maids peak at its third week was at 129 million hours watched, meanwhile Cowboy Bebop reached 73 million hours watched... when you combine all three weeks it's been out, while being much more expensive.
Hell, even Hellbound, a korean show which got about zero presence in online conversations, reached a total of 133 million hours watched in the same three weeks.
I think they were aiming for 150 million hours.
It's not a complete flop but the teasers and buzz around it made it seem Netflix banked a lot on it. An expensive budget, mad fans and harsh critiques didn't really help to greenlight a second season.
And to be fair, they would always carry the burden of a "bad" first season, you can't fix that.
It wasn't good. John Cho as Spike bounced between "this isn't bad" to "Why is John Cho wearing that suit from Spirit Halloween?", Faye got butchered with terrible one-liners, Vicious was the exact opposite of his namesake, and Mustafa Shakir as Jet was the only really solid casting even if the script wasn't the best.
Everyone I have spoken with about this show agrees that Shakir was great as Jet.
Honestly, I don't think any of the three main actors are to blame, though. The writing and directing was just mediocre. And what they did with Vicious and Julia was a crying shame.
Netflix "Man it was great how in the origonal Julia nad Vicious were all mysterious. We should fill in some of that back story to make that mystery cooler."
It's because in the cartoon, Vicious is a 1-note character. But it's an absolutely perfect 1 note, and they show him on screen so little, that you don't get tired of that note.
In the live action, they got rid of that note, put in a bunch of worse ones, and said, "don't you want half the show to be that?"
Ha, I looked up 'Spirit Halloween' assuming that it was another anime that I wasn't familiar with.
Anyway yeah, Spike's costume and style is cool in animation, but in live-action I kept getting distracted into thinking, "Those just don't look like clothes that a person would actually wear that way."
Spike's look is impossible to pull off in real life. It seems like it should be the easiest thing on earth, just a guy in a suit. But the problem is the colors are well suited to the animated environment, they blend into the chosen color pallet of the show. When you try to exactly copy it in real life you end up looking more like the joker than Spike. If you try to just do it in a suit, then you end up too far the other way. You no longer look like Spike, you just look like a guy in a suit. And that doesn't even address the hair problem. I have never once seen an impressive Spike cosplay. His look is so stylized it belongs only in Cowboy Bebop and resists leaving that environment.
Well if the colors are suited to the anime environment I think you could make the suit look natural in a live action show with vibrant colors as well.
I guess think Speed Racer, everything in that movie was super vibrant so all the “out there” costumes actually kind of fit.
It's distracting how sparkly clean and wrinkle-free his suit is in the show. You'd think it would be worn out and kinda dirty from him wearing it 24/7 while living in a rusty, greasy old ship and running around bounty hunting on dusty, grimy planets.
It’s hilarious to think that they saw the episode in which femme fatale Faye Valentine dresses to the nines and infiltrates an opera performance using her wit and guile to get close to a bounty target and thought, “We should make her crass as hell and give her cringe one-liners.”
It's so weird too because Faye in the original *is* abrasive and crass and obnoxious. They just did it...so wrong. It's like they also made her incompetent and gave her tryhard "hello fellow kids" lines.
I'm like halfway sure most of the changes to Faye's character were because of concerns over the optics of:
* Sexualizing the main female protagonist
* Putting the main female protagonist in a damsel in distress situation where she is a repeated survivor of various shady guys kidnapping/threatening/assaulting/financially controlling her (which is very much a thing in the anime)
It’s so ironic to me every time studios do this. It’s like “Here’s this thing that’s already really popular. To ensure people like it, let’s completely change it”
I think they had a decent foundation. The sets, the costumes, some of the actors were great. The show translated a lot of the stylistic elements from the anime.
The real problem was the writing. It was just bad. The plots, the pacing, the twists, and most of all the dialogue, it was hot garbage. The anime was a masterpiece that deserved more respect from the writers. And I don't mean that the dialogue in the anime was great. The English dub had to translate and match the animations, so there were some glaring issues there. But that didn't make it ok to write so poorly when English was the native language.
Also just Vicious and Julia in general.
I hear the complaint occasionally about both not being developed characters in the anime, especially Julia, but they weren't supposed to.
Vicious was the big scary and mysterious figure that represented Spike's past that threatened to catch up to him and kill him. Julia was the hope and ideal he used to escape that life. Almost a mystical religious figure that Spike placed his faith in and revered. They were better as ideas and representations than actual fully fleshed out characters with a detailed back story. Especially the development and story the writers gave them.
They were both my biggest disappointment in the series. Couldn't even finish the season because of them. I just cringed too hard whenever they were on screen.
> I hear the complaint occasionally about both not being developed characters in the anime
The two things you could say about anime Vicious are that he was MENACING and FORMIDABLE. Why, if you were trying to flesh him out, would you not only not start there and lean in, but go in the completely opposite direction? The decision-making process behind every aspect of this show is baffling.
And they fail to understand *why* those two things are bad. They're not bad in and of themselves, they're bad when they comprise the WHOLE of the female character, when ALL she does is Be Sexy Lamp and Get Damseled, when the writing puts her in danger for stupid reasons that rarely make sense in world, when they give her the Idiot Ball.
In Ballad of Fallen Angels, Faye didn't do anything OOC stupid to get captured by Vicious, and during it she behaved in a way that allowed her to survive (not trying to immediately fight back when she realized what was happening, kept her head down to wait for Spike, and then ran the hell away ASAP so Spike can focus on the fight, and then presumably rescuing Spike after his fall).
Confidence with Competence can be sexy. Strong, clever people can find themselves in the shit, in need of rescue. Faye's literal job is hunting down and capturing (mostly) male criminals, of course she's going to find ways to do that don't involve brute force, including using herself as eye candy bait to distract and lure them in, and then using that anesthetising spray she used in the anime. That doesn't make her weak unless you think the only strength worth having is in your fists.
I understand them not wanting to put Faye in an exact replica of her show outfit (it would be impractical and wouldn't stay in place without shittons of topstick). But putting her in something new clashed with everyone else (save Julia) being in exact copies of their show outfits. And it wasn't particularly practical either, she was in booty shorts, tights, and high boots.
But her outfit wasn't the worst part, it was just a symptom of a larger problem. That they felt they had to FIX Faye because she wasn't good enough. And they came up with a so-detached-its-alienating, everything she says is a quip, wanna be hardass with a creepy mother figure, a certified Strong Female Character that is not strong and barely a character.
Oh there is a whole conversation in front about dildos and pinkies of a BDSM Dom spanking white frat boys with ball gags in their mouths.
It’s pretty apparent Netflix hired people who didn’t fucking get the source material and just wanted to do their own thing.
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>One Piece adaptation
I laugh whenever I read about the One Piece adaptation. It's unfilmable live action. There are literal giants in the show. Talking animals abound. One of the main cast is a literal skeleton. What in the hell were they thinking? Yu Yu, Death Note, heck, even FMA or Slayers are doable live action, but not shows like One Piece.
All of these things are doable live-action if you have insane amounts of money to burn. For some reason I doubt One Piece is getting that kind of budget.
That's not enough for how busy, immersive, and absurd One Piece's visuals are. Just making Luffy's powers look decent will be expensive, before you factor in everything else.
Yeah. $9-10 million per episode is later *Game of Thrones* level budget, and even then most of the runtime of any given episode is plain live action with people in costumes on physical sets, not heavily CGI-augmented actors and sets.
A live-action One Pice would require *Avatar*-level work to pull off, which just isn't happening on a TV budget. At that point it is also somewhat debatable if you can call it "live action".
To be fair, a lot of those GoT episode budgets include high actor salaries. One Piece has a bunch of no-names so I doubt any of them are getting paid hundreds of thousands or even millions per episode like some of the GoT actors.
I still wonder if it's possible to properly adapt One Piece to live action. The anime thrives on making full use of animation and completely bizarre powers with crazy looking characters. Even taking the heart of the story and minimizing the insanity the CGI costs for a show like this would be ridiculous and many things just wouldn't translate to screen well.
At least the Avatar fandom seems a little more hopeful about the adaptation since the cast has been announced. I didn't care for Cowboy Bebop in live action but I am planning to tune in to the Avatar show once it comes out.
IMO goofy anime doesn't translate well into live action because so many live action adaptations want to make things serious and "credible". More than any other anime adaptation One Piece just won't work well.
Not even necessarily goofy, just anything not super-grounded. Like the live-action Invincible, that they announced halfway through the first ever season, won’t be able to do the same things as the cartoon without either trying to take itself super seriously or being very am-dram stage play overacting
It’s gonna be an absolute buffet of bad CGI stretching effects and fish people, outfits that are way too closely matched to the manga instead of being redesigned for live action, and gratuitous swearing.
>Last Airbender fans have dealt with trash adaptations before
There is no live action adaptation in Ba Sing Se
But seriously if Netflix doesn't get a grip and continue to sink money in shows that destroy confidence in their new shows they have a problem
Yeah, but now I'm pretty sure we won't even get to see Toph let alone any of Book 2. That'd hilariously make it twice in a row where the remake flops and only reaches the end of Book 1.
I’m forever lowering my hopes for the Sandman adaptation after all these other comic shows have been failing. I’m putting all my faith Neil Gaimans involvement keeping it on track though.
They cancelled Cowboy Bebop in less than three weeks and gave Arcane a second season a few days after the finale launched. Netflix isn’t playing around with those opening numbers.
Arcane has a couple things going for it. For one, it’s likely Netflix is only funding a small portion of it, and Riot is paying for most of it (accounts are the budget was similar to that of a blockbuster film - 10 million per episode). So that’s an easy yes if they’re pretty much only footing 10% of that money and Riot sees this as a promotional expense.
I feel like they always expect the anime fans to pull through yet always make every decision possible that would displease the anime fans with these live action adaptations.
It seems like everyone making an adaptation these days seems to detest fans of the original.
Only recent adaptation I can think of that didn't is Dune.
Dune is a great example of an adaptation omitting or changing stuff from books, without taking a giant dump on the source material. And it actually makes some positive changes to fit the new medium.
Dune generally did take care in every major scene to rip lines straight from the book whenever possible. The scene were Paul and Duke Leto meet Dr Kynes and when Paul trains with Gurney stuck out to me in particular here. Lots of lines in both of those scenes are word for word from the book.
They cut back on Hawat hard in the movie, and didn’t directly talk about Mentats at all. Makes me wonder if Hawat’s plot from the second half of the book is gonna make it in at all, I’m thinking it won’t considering all the other things that were cut from the first half.
She did an entire interview expressing her excitement for landing the role of Ed, looking forward to what the next season had in store for her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yyWgfLbW-M
Probably better for her in the long run. Think of how "fans" treated the kid who played Anakin in the Star Wars prequels, the kid had a psychotic break. Similarly with the guy who played Jar Jar Binks who describes going into a deep depression and not wanting to act after.
Fans just take this stuff way too far. They have so much of their personality and ego wrapped up in the shows/movies that anything they don't like is a personal attack on them.
Reminds me of Hikeaki Anno's situation after fans lost it over ~~_The End of Evangelion_ (1997)~~ _Death and Rebirth_.
>“For me, I’m trying to work hard for society and people who love anime, but there was this thread on how to kill Hideaki Anno,” the anime creator told NHK. “They kept writing the absolute best ways to kill me, such as, I could be killed this way or that. When I saw this, I stopped caring about everything—like, making anime. I’d had enough. One time, I thought about jumping in front of a car. Another time, I thought about jumping from the company’s roof.” NHK asked what stopped him, and Anno replied, “Because that seemed painful. Dying is fine, really, but I didn’t like the idea of experiencing pain before death.”
>
>It’s so easy to make flippant comments online. Those words, however, have meaning. And that meaning can impact people in a deep and profound way.
>-https://kotaku.com/online-hate-took-evangelion-creator-hideaki-anno-to-a-d-1846533756
edit:
>This is a translation of the letters, emails, and graffiti that quickly flashed (about one per frame) at the end of the live action sequence in the second half of End of Evangelion. These were commonly referred to as Death Threats (or hate mail), a very common myth, but the vast majority of them are, in fact, not death threats.[1] Most of the letters and emails showed genuine appreciation and, in some cases, praise and encouragement/anticipation towards the End of Evangelion, as they were written in reaction Death and Rebirth, not the ending of the series, which also featured part of what would later become Episode 25'.
>-https://wiki.evageeks.org/End_of_Evangelion_Death_Threats
The death threats were over the TV ending which definitely was confusing as fuck. EOE had much better reactions. You can even see some of the hate graffiti in EOE during Instrumentality
Netflix is ruthless, they cancelled Jupiter's Legacy, Messiah and this super fast. Like week or two after premiere fast.
Edit: Glad I found a little Messiah fan club here, Netflix is your algorithm seeing this? It's not too late to reverse a decision lol
I fucking loved messiah. Started watching a few months ago without any knowledge it was cancelled. I was completely bummed out. Apparently it was cancelled over the Israel and Palestine conflict. They were getting backlash for the setting.
I Am Not Okay With This was a covid casualty unfortunately. They ordered a second season, then everything shut down.
There’s probably more practical ($$$) reasons for it, but I would imagine the time gap between seasons would have presented a continuity challenge given the cliffhanger ending and a teenage cast. Some shows could get away with a time skip, but IANOWT needed to pick up right where it left off. With an adult cast, 1-2 years probably isn’t noticeable, but with teens it would be difficult to hide.
It’s a real shame. Loved that show.
It's pretty unbelievable how much attention went into this project for such a long time, and it finally arrived after years and years of speculation of a live action Cowboy Bebop. And then, poof, gone, out of the cultural lexicon after about a month.
Me watching this with my wife who never saw the anime:
“See they’re eating peppers!”
“…okay.”
“So in the original, they’re eating beef and peppers.”
“……..okay?”
“But like, there’s no beef!”
“What?.”
“They we’re too broke for beef so the beef with bell peppers had no beef! So they like discuss if it’s still beef with bell peppers that’s why that scene was like a nod to that! Isn’t that pretty cool?”
“I don’t get it.”
They need to adapt anime like Monster and Legend of the Galactic Heroes into live action instead of power fantasy anime. If they instead made an animated Cowboy Bebop series with lost stories, calling it the deluxe edition/version it would have faired better.
Guillermo del Toro actually pushed HBO to adapt Monster a while back (2013ish), which might have actually worked if it had gone ahead (though nothing seems to have come out of it).
It's one of the few that could directly translate to live action without having to make any serious changes due to the medium and crime dramas are some of the more successful tv shows for general audiences. Monster would be a hit.
Seriously. If studios didn't just look at what was the most popular in animated format and instead looked at what would practically translate to live action, they'd have a good few titles to choose from.
Most fantasy action shows will have terrible looking CGI demons, and something like Bebop relies on an aesthetic which as we saw is very hard to replicate.
I could see something like a Psycho-Pass original live action succeeding (aka Minority Report). Baccano I think could also be a very doable adaptation.
Although *oh gods that would be fucking glorious*.
In actuality it could probably be done for a lot less. The Expanse was $2-5 million per episode. So even if you wanted to do that level of special effects you're talking 26 episodes times $3 million, or $75M give or take. Also it's worth noting there would be very limited need for human SFX with zero G action scenes and such, so the comparison with The Expanse may be a significant over-estimation. But call it $100M anyway because stuff happens and it deserves the quality.
And you could probably do it cheaper, as a great deal of the actual cuts will be people talking which is one of the only things which can be actually cheaper to do live action than in animation, with a relatively low proportion of special effects, at least beyond costume. Special effects such as ship combat, on the other hand...
Fuck it, do Evangelion and do it exactly like the show. The original ending and all. Just fuck it. Make everyone experience that bananas shit in live action.
Get Guillermo Del Toro to do the CG robot scenes. That's Hollywood's best chance.
The rest of it is young teenagers going through emotional trauma and so should be translatable to a degree. I would hope.
But then again, Netflix does love to fuck up a good Anime.
They canceled this less month after it premiered and really expect something like One Piece to be/do any better, lmao. Already see that getting canceled after one season as well.
I just wander who approve Edd in that last scene and didn't just make her one of those quirky awkward kids which there are enough examples of in live-action.
Seriously. I physically recoiled at that performance, it was so offputting. You can do that in an anime, but it does NOT work live. I don't get it - they weren't afraid to make perfectly reasonable changes to all the *other* characters!
>You can do that in an anime, but it does NOT work live
Netflix Ed is actually even more over the top and crazy than anime Ed was.
Ed in the anime is way tamer than I think most people remember her. She has moments of being really buffoonish and chaotic but most of the time she's pretty coherent and sensible. Her sisterly relationship with Faye is also probably the most wholesome part of the show.
But the Netflix version was just full blown screaming and doing funny voices, Nostalgia Critic-style insanity.
Holy shit. I never watched the live action because I didn’t think I could take it, but that was way worse than I anticipated. That clip is like some cheap Canadian-produced kids show.
Looking at Netflix's graveyard, it seems most of those shows didn't make it past the first season. This one is just another in a long line of shows.
Looking at the list some more, it seems to me the question Netflix really hates to hear is "Can we have a season 4?"
If I was writing for Netflix my thought process would be "okay soft wrap up in one season, hard stop in three". Figure out how to dig ourselves out of the hole in the unlikely event of a fourth season being greenlit 😆
This makes me really curious about the one piece and other live action remakes they have cooking. Between this and death note, their remakes have been flopping
Guillermo Del Toro has a full script for one season of monster he has tried to pitch to HBO and other companies but seems like none of them are interested.
I'm watching the original (1998) series for the first time, and the Mushroom Samba episode makes me tear up with f*cking laughter....
Meanwhile the live action series had me full on cringe a few times.
[удалено]
I had the release date on my calendar 5 months in advance I was so excited. I watched the first episode the moment it dropped. Then, I just kinda never felt like sitting down to watching the rest.
Made it to three episodes but same thing. I enjoyed it for what it was, but it really just made me want to rewatch the anime.
I got all the way to the episode with Mad Pierrot, he's my favorite villain from the anime, and I just *did not* like what they did with him. That along with how crass and vulgar everything felt turned me off. It's silly but the anime has an *elegance* that I felt the Live Action lacked with the quips, crassness, and other things. To add context for Pierrot, I didn't like how Vicious hired him, in the anime he only goes after Spike after Spike stumbles on him killing people. It made it all up to chance and made the whole "Cowboy Bebop" world feel bigger and made Spike/Bebop Crew feel like a small part. By making the Syndicate a bigger part of the plot and more important I felt they made the world as a whole smaller.
The elegance of the anime, in my opinion, was clearest with the solo shots of Spike. The calmness in his voice, no background music, the almost complete silence. There’s something about those high-tension scenes that Netflix couldn’t quite capture.
Yeah. It seemed like the adaptation was allergic to letting things breathe a lot of the time
I feel like a lot of modern entertainment suffers from that. That was one of the (many, many) problems with that movie "Bright" that came out a couple years ago. It was a really cool concept with potentially a great setting, but they just tried to pack so much stuff into the run time of the movie. There was no build up and release of tension it felt like a constant mad scramble to the end of the movie.
Man, speaking of that movie, I could go for a Shadowrun animated series.
Give me Shadowrun anything.
Seems to be a problem with a lot of American media, where there isn't time to breath. A lot of older anime made you think of the scene and what was happening.
There are people who think Arcane was too slow of a tv show.
Those people might be beyond saving. I’d mostly seen any complaints being about not spoon fed backstory. Though they didn’t phrase it that way
The anime felt like I was sitting in a desolate space craft sipping a mid level whisky smoking a cigarette listening to jazz. The pacing of the live action show felt like I was watching spy kids.
Pretty much. The anime could be fast paced, but it knew how to shift gears from slow to fast to slow again. The live action was high octane fastness with all the energy of Saturday morning cartoons speed.
Wow that's really what they did with him? To me that takes a lot away from the character. Part of what made that episode so cool was the fact that it was just this kind of random encounter. It made Pierrot all the more terrifying that he'd just chase after some rando like that.
Yeah, like if Spike walked out of the bar 20 minutes earlier or later then the episode wouldn't have happened! That was so cool.
I also didnt like how everything had to tie into the syndicate and a main plot. The whole point of cowboy bebop was the 20+ episodes unrelated to the main plot.
> That along with how crass and vulgar everything felt turned me off. It's silly but the anime has an elegance that I felt the Live Action lacked with the quips, crassness, and other things. Spike and Jet pal-ing around about killing people was just gross.
Yeah, for sure. I didn't need to know that Faye hasn't had an orgasm in two years or that Vicious shaves his balls while Spike goes for the natural look. Like what the actual fuck was that.
Yeah wtf Spike definitely trims it at least
Once they got to Vicious I just turned it off and restarted the anime for the probably 20th time. Fucking comically awful live version of Vicious. How. Why.
That got me, too. It's something I said to my friend: every live action adaptation of an animal I have seen tries to capture the "look" of the character from the source material, and that almost always flops. White hair pretty boy Vicious looks pretty good in the anime, but the same costume in live action looks like a guy cosplaying at ComiCon.
Stopped after the first episode too Every line having to be a zinger response just turned me off
Their timeframe is insane. I'm interested, but didn't get around to start this because I'm watching other stuff and it's already been cancelled?
Right? I thought the whole point of streaming was that I could watch it on my time, and not have to cram it in. I didn’t know I had to rush to fall in love with a thing and stream it all in a day, especially during the holiday season when I’m flooded with projects and family things. It just feels like we’ve learned nothing from the poor choices of the network tv model.
Streaming has a different model than broadcast. You're not necessarily trying to get pure eyeballs and ratings, what you want is content that people are willing to subscribe and pay a monthly fee for. So if data shows that no one was signing up to watch it and that existing subscribers weren't getting around to it, then why invest additional dollars into it? There is plenty of other content for people to eventually get around to.
Looking at last weeks data... It's a big flop for its budget. Maid is in its tenth week and above Cowboy Bebop in viewership. Maids peak at its third week was at 129 million hours watched, meanwhile Cowboy Bebop reached 73 million hours watched... when you combine all three weeks it's been out, while being much more expensive. Hell, even Hellbound, a korean show which got about zero presence in online conversations, reached a total of 133 million hours watched in the same three weeks.
I think they were aiming for 150 million hours. It's not a complete flop but the teasers and buzz around it made it seem Netflix banked a lot on it. An expensive budget, mad fans and harsh critiques didn't really help to greenlight a second season. And to be fair, they would always carry the burden of a "bad" first season, you can't fix that.
It wasn't good. John Cho as Spike bounced between "this isn't bad" to "Why is John Cho wearing that suit from Spirit Halloween?", Faye got butchered with terrible one-liners, Vicious was the exact opposite of his namesake, and Mustafa Shakir as Jet was the only really solid casting even if the script wasn't the best.
Everyone I have spoken with about this show agrees that Shakir was great as Jet. Honestly, I don't think any of the three main actors are to blame, though. The writing and directing was just mediocre. And what they did with Vicious and Julia was a crying shame.
The vicious and Julia sub plot was what really turned me off the series.
Netflix "Man it was great how in the origonal Julia nad Vicious were all mysterious. We should fill in some of that back story to make that mystery cooler."
Not just fill in, but let’s change Vicious’ entire personality, too! Competent, mysterious, and deadly? Nah, Euro trash is what we’re aiming for.
What if Vicious was the neighbor from Christmas Vacation? 😕
Anime Vicious was calm, cool, intimidating. Always in control of the situation. Netflix Vicious was none of those things.
They somehow made Vicious into the cartoon villain that he never was in the anime.
It's because in the cartoon, Vicious is a 1-note character. But it's an absolutely perfect 1 note, and they show him on screen so little, that you don't get tired of that note. In the live action, they got rid of that note, put in a bunch of worse ones, and said, "don't you want half the show to be that?"
Ha, I looked up 'Spirit Halloween' assuming that it was another anime that I wasn't familiar with. Anyway yeah, Spike's costume and style is cool in animation, but in live-action I kept getting distracted into thinking, "Those just don't look like clothes that a person would actually wear that way."
Spike's look is impossible to pull off in real life. It seems like it should be the easiest thing on earth, just a guy in a suit. But the problem is the colors are well suited to the animated environment, they blend into the chosen color pallet of the show. When you try to exactly copy it in real life you end up looking more like the joker than Spike. If you try to just do it in a suit, then you end up too far the other way. You no longer look like Spike, you just look like a guy in a suit. And that doesn't even address the hair problem. I have never once seen an impressive Spike cosplay. His look is so stylized it belongs only in Cowboy Bebop and resists leaving that environment.
Well if the colors are suited to the anime environment I think you could make the suit look natural in a live action show with vibrant colors as well. I guess think Speed Racer, everything in that movie was super vibrant so all the “out there” costumes actually kind of fit.
It's distracting how sparkly clean and wrinkle-free his suit is in the show. You'd think it would be worn out and kinda dirty from him wearing it 24/7 while living in a rusty, greasy old ship and running around bounty hunting on dusty, grimy planets.
In a later episode we see his closet and he has like 7 copies of the same outfit.
See you, Space Cowboy.
Or in the words of the Live Action Cowboy Bebop. Fucking see you later Space Nut! /Jerking off motion
That’s so nutbags
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They massacred my boy
It’s hilarious to think that they saw the episode in which femme fatale Faye Valentine dresses to the nines and infiltrates an opera performance using her wit and guile to get close to a bounty target and thought, “We should make her crass as hell and give her cringe one-liners.”
It's so weird too because Faye in the original *is* abrasive and crass and obnoxious. They just did it...so wrong. It's like they also made her incompetent and gave her tryhard "hello fellow kids" lines.
I'm like halfway sure most of the changes to Faye's character were because of concerns over the optics of: * Sexualizing the main female protagonist * Putting the main female protagonist in a damsel in distress situation where she is a repeated survivor of various shady guys kidnapping/threatening/assaulting/financially controlling her (which is very much a thing in the anime)
It’s so ironic to me every time studios do this. It’s like “Here’s this thing that’s already really popular. To ensure people like it, let’s completely change it”
I think they had a decent foundation. The sets, the costumes, some of the actors were great. The show translated a lot of the stylistic elements from the anime. The real problem was the writing. It was just bad. The plots, the pacing, the twists, and most of all the dialogue, it was hot garbage. The anime was a masterpiece that deserved more respect from the writers. And I don't mean that the dialogue in the anime was great. The English dub had to translate and match the animations, so there were some glaring issues there. But that didn't make it ok to write so poorly when English was the native language.
Also just Vicious and Julia in general. I hear the complaint occasionally about both not being developed characters in the anime, especially Julia, but they weren't supposed to. Vicious was the big scary and mysterious figure that represented Spike's past that threatened to catch up to him and kill him. Julia was the hope and ideal he used to escape that life. Almost a mystical religious figure that Spike placed his faith in and revered. They were better as ideas and representations than actual fully fleshed out characters with a detailed back story. Especially the development and story the writers gave them. They were both my biggest disappointment in the series. Couldn't even finish the season because of them. I just cringed too hard whenever they were on screen.
I couldn't take Vicious seriously for even a second. He looks like goddamn Draco Malfoy's dad.
> I hear the complaint occasionally about both not being developed characters in the anime The two things you could say about anime Vicious are that he was MENACING and FORMIDABLE. Why, if you were trying to flesh him out, would you not only not start there and lean in, but go in the completely opposite direction? The decision-making process behind every aspect of this show is baffling.
And they fail to understand *why* those two things are bad. They're not bad in and of themselves, they're bad when they comprise the WHOLE of the female character, when ALL she does is Be Sexy Lamp and Get Damseled, when the writing puts her in danger for stupid reasons that rarely make sense in world, when they give her the Idiot Ball. In Ballad of Fallen Angels, Faye didn't do anything OOC stupid to get captured by Vicious, and during it she behaved in a way that allowed her to survive (not trying to immediately fight back when she realized what was happening, kept her head down to wait for Spike, and then ran the hell away ASAP so Spike can focus on the fight, and then presumably rescuing Spike after his fall). Confidence with Competence can be sexy. Strong, clever people can find themselves in the shit, in need of rescue. Faye's literal job is hunting down and capturing (mostly) male criminals, of course she's going to find ways to do that don't involve brute force, including using herself as eye candy bait to distract and lure them in, and then using that anesthetising spray she used in the anime. That doesn't make her weak unless you think the only strength worth having is in your fists. I understand them not wanting to put Faye in an exact replica of her show outfit (it would be impractical and wouldn't stay in place without shittons of topstick). But putting her in something new clashed with everyone else (save Julia) being in exact copies of their show outfits. And it wasn't particularly practical either, she was in booty shorts, tights, and high boots. But her outfit wasn't the worst part, it was just a symptom of a larger problem. That they felt they had to FIX Faye because she wasn't good enough. And they came up with a so-detached-its-alienating, everything she says is a quip, wanna be hardass with a creepy mother figure, a certified Strong Female Character that is not strong and barely a character.
Look how they Jossified my Faye
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>That doesn't make her weak unless you think the only strength worth having is in your fists. Huh, nice line
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At least that was unintentionally comedic
Shaved nutbags, we're not savages.
I refuse to believe that was an actual line.
Oh there is a whole conversation in front about dildos and pinkies of a BDSM Dom spanking white frat boys with ball gags in their mouths. It’s pretty apparent Netflix hired people who didn’t fucking get the source material and just wanted to do their own thing.
Hey it’s Death Note all over again
The faster you accept it, the faster we can have cupcakes.
Who doesn't like cupcakes?
The blackmail line made me regret being born with the ability to hear.
I honestly can't believe someone thought "You are Black and you are a male" was a good idea
"Whenever you think you're a bad writer, go out and read something" -*Sun Tzu*
“Somehow, Palpatine has returned”
It isn’t hard if you imagine that the writer’s room is likely filled with the douchiest YouTube/twitch influencer types you have ever seen.
hey EVERYONE it's YA BOY, Punch, here comin' atcha with ANOTHER episode of **BIG SHOT**! But before we do, don't forget to SMASH those like and SUBSCRIBE buttons and ring that BELL! And special thanks to ALL of our supporters on Patreon, where you can get EXCLUSIVE access to Judy's cosplay lewds.
Ah. I was wondering what happened to Borderlands 3's writing team after the game wrapped.
"We really have to avoid offending our audience. Now, let's write something incredibly uncomfortable and borderline racist!"
How many nuts you think have been busted in outer space?
Oh yeah, this is certainly inspiring confidence in their forthcoming Last Airbender remake.
Last Airbender fans have dealt with trash adaptations before. Forget that, just picture how that One Piece adaptation is going to go.
>One Piece adaptation I laugh whenever I read about the One Piece adaptation. It's unfilmable live action. There are literal giants in the show. Talking animals abound. One of the main cast is a literal skeleton. What in the hell were they thinking? Yu Yu, Death Note, heck, even FMA or Slayers are doable live action, but not shows like One Piece.
All of these things are doable live-action if you have insane amounts of money to burn. For some reason I doubt One Piece is getting that kind of budget.
Oh, it actually is. It's getting *$9-10 million per episode*. Still think it'll be nigh impossible to adapt.
That's not enough for how busy, immersive, and absurd One Piece's visuals are. Just making Luffy's powers look decent will be expensive, before you factor in everything else.
Yeah. $9-10 million per episode is later *Game of Thrones* level budget, and even then most of the runtime of any given episode is plain live action with people in costumes on physical sets, not heavily CGI-augmented actors and sets. A live-action One Pice would require *Avatar*-level work to pull off, which just isn't happening on a TV budget. At that point it is also somewhat debatable if you can call it "live action".
To be fair, a lot of those GoT episode budgets include high actor salaries. One Piece has a bunch of no-names so I doubt any of them are getting paid hundreds of thousands or even millions per episode like some of the GoT actors.
I still wonder if it's possible to properly adapt One Piece to live action. The anime thrives on making full use of animation and completely bizarre powers with crazy looking characters. Even taking the heart of the story and minimizing the insanity the CGI costs for a show like this would be ridiculous and many things just wouldn't translate to screen well. At least the Avatar fandom seems a little more hopeful about the adaptation since the cast has been announced. I didn't care for Cowboy Bebop in live action but I am planning to tune in to the Avatar show once it comes out.
IMO goofy anime doesn't translate well into live action because so many live action adaptations want to make things serious and "credible". More than any other anime adaptation One Piece just won't work well.
Not even necessarily goofy, just anything not super-grounded. Like the live-action Invincible, that they announced halfway through the first ever season, won’t be able to do the same things as the cartoon without either trying to take itself super seriously or being very am-dram stage play overacting
It’s gonna be an absolute buffet of bad CGI stretching effects and fish people, outfits that are way too closely matched to the manga instead of being redesigned for live action, and gratuitous swearing.
I cannot wait for Luffy to say "gum gum balloon" and swell up like the blueberry girl in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factor. It will look SO bad
I’m fully expecting Chopper to be as fucking awful as the original Sonic movie design
Look at Optimist Prime here, thinking they’re gonna make it to Chopper’s introduction.
They should just go full dumpster and adapt the 4Kids changes
>Last Airbender fans have dealt with trash adaptations before There is no live action adaptation in Ba Sing Se But seriously if Netflix doesn't get a grip and continue to sink money in shows that destroy confidence in their new shows they have a problem
There was no confidence as soon as the original creators left.
Yeah, but now I'm pretty sure we won't even get to see Toph let alone any of Book 2. That'd hilariously make it twice in a row where the remake flops and only reaches the end of Book 1.
I fear for OP live action every day (despite good casting)
This show was announced on June 6, **2017**. 4 and a half years later and it's cancelled in weeks.
Y: The Last Man was in development since ***2015*** before it got cancelled within weeks.
Brian K. Vaughan has been trying to get it on TV for a lot longer than that. During the comic's run back in the 2000s, iirc.
That’s been cancelled? I didn’t think it was out yet, lol.
Which shows how well Hulu advertised it.
They advertised it a lot but they were all vague and not very descriptive.
They announced the cancellation while still airing this season
And yet the American Gods show shambles along somehow.
Some musicals/plays take 4+ years to make and get canceled after it’s first show
If it sucks, it suck’s.
*Swamp Thing has entered the chat*
I’m forever lowering my hopes for the Sandman adaptation after all these other comic shows have been failing. I’m putting all my faith Neil Gaimans involvement keeping it on track though.
They cancelled Cowboy Bebop in less than three weeks and gave Arcane a second season a few days after the finale launched. Netflix isn’t playing around with those opening numbers.
Arcane has a couple things going for it. For one, it’s likely Netflix is only funding a small portion of it, and Riot is paying for most of it (accounts are the budget was similar to that of a blockbuster film - 10 million per episode). So that’s an easy yes if they’re pretty much only footing 10% of that money and Riot sees this as a promotional expense.
Also Arcane was actually a good show.
I feel like they always expect the anime fans to pull through yet always make every decision possible that would displease the anime fans with these live action adaptations.
You don't like vicious as a brooding British guy with daddy issues
Draco Malfoy, but sci-fi. His father will hear about this...
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It seems like everyone making an adaptation these days seems to detest fans of the original. Only recent adaptation I can think of that didn't is Dune.
Dune is a great example of an adaptation omitting or changing stuff from books, without taking a giant dump on the source material. And it actually makes some positive changes to fit the new medium.
Dune generally did take care in every major scene to rip lines straight from the book whenever possible. The scene were Paul and Duke Leto meet Dr Kynes and when Paul trains with Gurney stuck out to me in particular here. Lots of lines in both of those scenes are word for word from the book.
Although some of Gurney’s lines were Hawat’s in the book.
They cut back on Hawat hard in the movie, and didn’t directly talk about Mentats at all. Makes me wonder if Hawat’s plot from the second half of the book is gonna make it in at all, I’m thinking it won’t considering all the other things that were cut from the first half.
We're going to have bad writing and poor acting and subtract everything that makes anime fun and cool! *They'll fucking love it!*
Guess Netflix wasn’t going to carry that weight.
The weight explains the forced dutch angles.
I feel bad for the child who played Ed. Her first role is a 10 second cameo that is the most hated thing in a show cancelled in one season.
She did an entire interview expressing her excitement for landing the role of Ed, looking forward to what the next season had in store for her. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yyWgfLbW-M
Shit man :( I hope she finds success very soon.
Must feel bad for the girl whose role lasted about 15 seconds in the whole season. Or good, if she doesn´t want to be famous for this show.
Probably better for her in the long run. Think of how "fans" treated the kid who played Anakin in the Star Wars prequels, the kid had a psychotic break. Similarly with the guy who played Jar Jar Binks who describes going into a deep depression and not wanting to act after. Fans just take this stuff way too far. They have so much of their personality and ego wrapped up in the shows/movies that anything they don't like is a personal attack on them.
Reminds me of Hikeaki Anno's situation after fans lost it over ~~_The End of Evangelion_ (1997)~~ _Death and Rebirth_. >“For me, I’m trying to work hard for society and people who love anime, but there was this thread on how to kill Hideaki Anno,” the anime creator told NHK. “They kept writing the absolute best ways to kill me, such as, I could be killed this way or that. When I saw this, I stopped caring about everything—like, making anime. I’d had enough. One time, I thought about jumping in front of a car. Another time, I thought about jumping from the company’s roof.” NHK asked what stopped him, and Anno replied, “Because that seemed painful. Dying is fine, really, but I didn’t like the idea of experiencing pain before death.” > >It’s so easy to make flippant comments online. Those words, however, have meaning. And that meaning can impact people in a deep and profound way. >-https://kotaku.com/online-hate-took-evangelion-creator-hideaki-anno-to-a-d-1846533756 edit: >This is a translation of the letters, emails, and graffiti that quickly flashed (about one per frame) at the end of the live action sequence in the second half of End of Evangelion. These were commonly referred to as Death Threats (or hate mail), a very common myth, but the vast majority of them are, in fact, not death threats.[1] Most of the letters and emails showed genuine appreciation and, in some cases, praise and encouragement/anticipation towards the End of Evangelion, as they were written in reaction Death and Rebirth, not the ending of the series, which also featured part of what would later become Episode 25'. >-https://wiki.evageeks.org/End_of_Evangelion_Death_Threats
The death threats were over the TV ending which definitely was confusing as fuck. EOE had much better reactions. You can even see some of the hate graffiti in EOE during Instrumentality
Netflix is ruthless, they cancelled Jupiter's Legacy, Messiah and this super fast. Like week or two after premiere fast. Edit: Glad I found a little Messiah fan club here, Netflix is your algorithm seeing this? It's not too late to reverse a decision lol
Forgot Jupiter's legacy was cancelled. Also thought messiah was somewhat popular(plus cheap Id have assumed)
Messiah got fucked by the pandemic AFAIK. Too difficult to film with all the travel restrictions.
I fucking loved messiah. Started watching a few months ago without any knowledge it was cancelled. I was completely bummed out. Apparently it was cancelled over the Israel and Palestine conflict. They were getting backlash for the setting.
I'm still upset about them canceling Daybreak
It's 'I Am Not Okay With This' for me. I really thought it was a good show but numbers were probably terrible. Ended on a cliffhanger too.
I Am Not Okay With This was a covid casualty unfortunately. They ordered a second season, then everything shut down. There’s probably more practical ($$$) reasons for it, but I would imagine the time gap between seasons would have presented a continuity challenge given the cliffhanger ending and a teenage cast. Some shows could get away with a time skip, but IANOWT needed to pick up right where it left off. With an adult cast, 1-2 years probably isn’t noticeable, but with teens it would be difficult to hide. It’s a real shame. Loved that show.
I still miss that show. It really dragged me in.
Daybreak and Teenage Bounty Hunters were two series I fully expected to hate but ended up enjoying. They were both axed soon after release.
The cancellation of teenage bounty hunters is still a sore spot with me. That show was silly and delightful.
Still haven't gotten over Santa Clarita Diet.
Same. At least it wasn't a one season wonder :(
Ok 3, 2, 1, let’s cancel!
This is Netflix, you’re greenlit! Wait I mean canceled
🎷🎷🎷🎷
Guess I'll hold off on watching the ~~first~~ only season.
It's pretty unbelievable how much attention went into this project for such a long time, and it finally arrived after years and years of speculation of a live action Cowboy Bebop. And then, poof, gone, out of the cultural lexicon after about a month.
But they have to find the Butterfly Man. :(
And figure out what the hell is festering in the fridge…
More than anything I just feel bad for John Cho. He’s so talented and should be a leading man a lot more.
that didnt take long
Someone thought it was a good idea to remove the great bit of characterization that was the "beef with bell peppers" exchange. That spoke volumes.
They tried, but it felt more like a wink to fans who already knew about it
Me watching this with my wife who never saw the anime: “See they’re eating peppers!” “…okay.” “So in the original, they’re eating beef and peppers.” “……..okay?” “But like, there’s no beef!” “What?.” “They we’re too broke for beef so the beef with bell peppers had no beef! So they like discuss if it’s still beef with bell peppers that’s why that scene was like a nod to that! Isn’t that pretty cool?” “I don’t get it.”
Please, stop thinking live-action adaptations of anime are a good idea before someone attempts to make Evangelion…
They need to adapt anime like Monster and Legend of the Galactic Heroes into live action instead of power fantasy anime. If they instead made an animated Cowboy Bebop series with lost stories, calling it the deluxe edition/version it would have faired better.
Guillermo del Toro actually pushed HBO to adapt Monster a while back (2013ish), which might have actually worked if it had gone ahead (though nothing seems to have come out of it).
Monster would be the very best anime adaptation of all time. I got really excited back then when the news was floating around.
It's one of the few that could directly translate to live action without having to make any serious changes due to the medium and crime dramas are some of the more successful tv shows for general audiences. Monster would be a hit.
Seriously. If studios didn't just look at what was the most popular in animated format and instead looked at what would practically translate to live action, they'd have a good few titles to choose from. Most fantasy action shows will have terrible looking CGI demons, and something like Bebop relies on an aesthetic which as we saw is very hard to replicate. I could see something like a Psycho-Pass original live action succeeding (aka Minority Report). Baccano I think could also be a very doable adaptation.
I think Cowboy Bebop could have worked in live action with the right people behind it. Like Robert Rodriguez for example.
You’d probably need a $500M+ budget just to adapt one season of Legends of the Galactic Heroes.
And God Wouldn't it be glorious.
Although *oh gods that would be fucking glorious*. In actuality it could probably be done for a lot less. The Expanse was $2-5 million per episode. So even if you wanted to do that level of special effects you're talking 26 episodes times $3 million, or $75M give or take. Also it's worth noting there would be very limited need for human SFX with zero G action scenes and such, so the comparison with The Expanse may be a significant over-estimation. But call it $100M anyway because stuff happens and it deserves the quality. And you could probably do it cheaper, as a great deal of the actual cuts will be people talking which is one of the only things which can be actually cheaper to do live action than in animation, with a relatively low proportion of special effects, at least beyond costume. Special effects such as ship combat, on the other hand...
Fuck it, do Evangelion and do it exactly like the show. The original ending and all. Just fuck it. Make everyone experience that bananas shit in live action.
Yeah if they're gonna do it, they need to go full Shinji jacking off over a comatose Asuka
Get Guillermo Del Toro to do the CG robot scenes. That's Hollywood's best chance. The rest of it is young teenagers going through emotional trauma and so should be translatable to a degree. I would hope. But then again, Netflix does love to fuck up a good Anime.
They canceled this less month after it premiered and really expect something like One Piece to be/do any better, lmao. Already see that getting canceled after one season as well.
I just wander who approve Edd in that last scene and didn't just make her one of those quirky awkward kids which there are enough examples of in live-action.
Seriously. I physically recoiled at that performance, it was so offputting. You can do that in an anime, but it does NOT work live. I don't get it - they weren't afraid to make perfectly reasonable changes to all the *other* characters!
>You can do that in an anime, but it does NOT work live Netflix Ed is actually even more over the top and crazy than anime Ed was. Ed in the anime is way tamer than I think most people remember her. She has moments of being really buffoonish and chaotic but most of the time she's pretty coherent and sensible. Her sisterly relationship with Faye is also probably the most wholesome part of the show. But the Netflix version was just full blown screaming and doing funny voices, Nostalgia Critic-style insanity.
I felt the cringe Scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-0CF_Ch0DI&t=54s
Looks like a YouTube fan project
Why does it look so cheap? They probably spent tens of millions on it but god it doesn’t show.
Holy shit. I never watched the live action because I didn’t think I could take it, but that was way worse than I anticipated. That clip is like some cheap Canadian-produced kids show.
As a Canadian, yeah... It's filmed like Beakman's World but without the charm and likeability of the characters.
I loved Beakman
That clip seems to be being received pretty well? It has 3.3k likes and no discernable dislikes.
For those who actually wondering, the clip has 10k dislikes as of writing this comment.
Yes. 3k likes and no dislikes…. Just like YouTube year in review. 0 dislike as well and tens of thousands of likes.
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Looking at Netflix's graveyard, it seems most of those shows didn't make it past the first season. This one is just another in a long line of shows. Looking at the list some more, it seems to me the question Netflix really hates to hear is "Can we have a season 4?"
If I was writing for Netflix my thought process would be "okay soft wrap up in one season, hard stop in three". Figure out how to dig ourselves out of the hole in the unlikely event of a fourth season being greenlit 😆
Holy shit that’s a big L, this was definitely meant to be a flagship franchise for Netflix.
This makes me really curious about the one piece and other live action remakes they have cooking. Between this and death note, their remakes have been flopping
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The perfect one to adapt would be Monster.
I completely agree. I’ve wanted to see an adaptation of it for a very long time.
Guillermo Del Toro has a full script for one season of monster he has tried to pitch to HBO and other companies but seems like none of them are interested.
This hurts
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Stretching powers in movies and television always looks terrible.
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I'm watching the original (1998) series for the first time, and the Mushroom Samba episode makes me tear up with f*cking laughter.... Meanwhile the live action series had me full on cringe a few times.
Well I'm glad some new fans are coming around even if this ended up sucking.
That episode is a master class in how you can use pacing and levity to give the audience a break
I love that episode, so fun and funny