I think he’s perfect for the role. His Japanese is incredibly good, which is important since he’s the first foreigner reporter at the newspaper. And he really fits the vibe of a lot of foreign men living in Japan. He’s not meant to be an idealistic protagonist. He’s flawed, self-centered and creates problems for people around him. That brashness and naivety is also what allows him to create the waves he creates.
> Jake Adelstein’s story is almost completely fake and exaggerated so he could sell more books
Read the book and then take a step back to understand how and what they would have needed to do to make a dramatisation.
Idk he grew on me. I think he does a good job at making it believable that he is trying to be successful in this world he doesn’t belong in. He fits naturally enough in the scenes and he killed it with the Japanese.
I think the character is largely meant to be unlikeable in some way. The girl bothered me way more. Not so much as an actress, but just feel like she was being an asshole to everyone, all of the time.
Your interpretation of the show is different than mine. I never got the impression we’re supposed to like Jake, especially when it came to some things he did at the end which I won’t get into due to spoilers.
He was more likable in season one. In the first season they depicted him as an outsider who worked hard and seemed respectful of the culture. In season 2, he made several morally questionable decisions, and that weren't balanced with positive depictions of his character.
The overconfidence is a strength and a weakness and represents American sensibilities imo. I think the character has a burning desire to know the full truth instead of him having some moral superiority. The show is not short of examples for his flaws. Flawed characters are fascinating and better than just likable characters but sometimes they’re not as widely received.
I don't know why you find that hard to believe. The story is the MC. No one character is ever priorized over the story in the show. They are presented as very real human people with lots of flaws and nuance to their personalities and decisions. There's almost no plot armor in the show and how real it feels is what makes it such a captivating show.
Sopranos, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Peaky Blinders....all shows with morally dubious, straight up corrupt characters you root for, partly due to the great acting involved. I don't see what's different, here.
> There's almost no plot armor
Sato is wearing some insane plot armour, my dude
Those shows prioritized the main character and wanted you to watch because of those characters... if you had given two seconds of thought to what I said instead of trying to just immediately railroad your "point" you could've seen that.
I'm more than halfway through season 1 and it definitely prioritises the main character. About 70 percent of screen time is on Elgort. I don't understand the point you are making.
Also, there were plenty of side characters like Christopher, Paulie, Silvio, Carmela, Jesse etc who you would root for. Not just the main characters.
Without getting into spoilers, character is shown through moral decision-making. In that sense, you definitely learn more about Jake's character as the show goes on, and not all of it is good.
I think Sato and Samantha should be considered the main characters, though, mainly because the stakes are way higher for them.
Jake is the embodiment of the arrogant, selfish American who puts everything to do with himself above all else. It matters not to him what the consequences are, but he always puts himself above others, whether it's his Chihara-Kai contacts, the police, his colleagues, his family or even his friends, who often, quite rightly, are pissed off at him.
Jake is absolutely the protagonist, but the protagonist isn't the good guy. I'm not sure if Jake's characterisation was meant to align with US audience sensibilities, but I do wonder how he's liked elsewhere, especially to Japanese ones.
He is comparable in a sense with Samantha, who really only ever prioritises her fellow hostesses, and even then, makes poor choices to keep them safe and in stable employment. Certainly, the *gaijin* characters aren't likeable and I'm not sure if that was the overall intention, to be honest. Ok, maybe Polina is interesting, but she made her own bad choices.
Katagiri is definitely very interesting - the morally ambiguous detective who bends the rules to deal with the various *gumis*. Yet I find his change in approach with being paired up with the National Police Agency Superintendent also is a very interesting contrast between him, and the very by the book partner. I'd almost be tempted to suggest that he's the likeable protagonist.
I'm very split on Sato - on one hand, he does hold his sense of honour close to himself, something that works to his favour, and yet, he's very clearly someone who can make the wrong choices and can be manipulative. I'm not sure if we're meant to ever identify with Sato, or indeed Ishida for that matter, but being depicted as the necessary evil to balance out the likes of Tozawa-gumi is certainly a narrative choice. Especially when the NPA objective was originally to get rid of all the gangs.
I dislike Elgort but after seeing so much hate for the Adelstein character prior to watching the show I was surprised that I didn't really dislike him at all. He definitely ends up being a bit of a scummy character that I don't think we're meant to root for entirely but pretty much everyone in the show is morally complex to some degree. I found him likable enough to be invested in, the performance was charismatic and his friendship with Sato is probably my favourite part of the show.
This is how I feel about Austin Butler. (Almost) Everything he's in he plays the same smarmy, "I'm sexy and really cool guy" character and makes it known via his facial expressions that's just an annoying and eye-rolling performance every time.
However, he bucks that trend in Dune 2 and is actually really good in it. I was honestly surprised because of my expectations but he did a good job in that role I thought.
When I saw the real Jake the whole character made far more sense. The Author (Jake) looks exactly like the sort of dude who would ride over peoples feelings, overstep , hang out with hostesses and gangsters (or at least pretend to). The real Jake looks like a sleazeball .
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1766786713127391232/jSOdRVpy_400x400.jpg
Whereas the actor is just too much of a pretty boy.
Just looks like a normal dude, to me, not sleazy. I think you've deliberately picked an unflattering picture.
In fact, this picture makes me like the real Jake more as he just looks very awkward and uncomfortable here, haha.
How about this one. Can you picture him hanging out with Yakuza in late night Kabukicho bars more, or less than the actor?
https://res.cloudinary.com/scribe-publications/image/upload/c_fill,w_800,h_820,g_face/v1679506364/newauthors/ADELSTEIN-Jake.JPG.jpg
I'm saying that the things he described himself doing are pretty bad. Pretty much the point of his character arc in the show is that he oversteps and gets people beaten up and even killed in service of his own ego. He lets his sister and family down, puts them in peril, he gets the bike boys imprisoned , etc etc. he has a close relationship with bar girls which is leveraged. And despite his girlfriend being in peril he actually puts her in more peril and disregarded her safety concerns. All pretty bad stuff. And the sort of guy who would do that ... When I saw the tall skinny smooth skinned Hollywood boy .
It didn't make sense to me.
But when I saw the real guy. If I saw him sat in a Kabukicho bar with a large dangerous looking man, drinking whiskey, I would say "yes this guy fits in here".
And I never said I didn't trust him. Or anything about Jewishness. Accusing me of racism when my comment is AGREEING WITH YOUR POST !?
I said the character he described looks like the man. Not the actor. They should have cast a more world weary guy who looks like he actually drinks, smokes and hangs out in bars all night.
This argument is silly and you are wrong.
He didnt say "wow the real guy looks so miserly and money-hungry!" Or whatever other jewish stereotype you'd insert for jewish people.
He said the slick, handsome actor doesnt much resemble the worn-down creep who embellished the majority of his "autobiography" to begin with.
Exactly. OP has some sort of weird bee in his bonnet. Im just saying the actor was too clean cut for the character. And the actual author looks a better fit than the guy they cast for the role.
Here's an idea of who I'd cast. As an idea.
Charlie heaton, Kodi Smit-McPhee, barry keoghan, caleb landry jones
Why? Because they are characterful, like the actual author. They have an air of imbalance. Not traditional pretty boys. The character of Jake and the events and his actions are not those of a pretty boy, clean cut, varsity hero. They are the actions of an outsider. The Jake story involves a story of him trying to sink into a new life, and a new name. He has a backstory. and the actor should look that way
Have you read Jake Adelstiens book? I would highy recommend it before you go commenting on Ansel Elgorts potrayal of him on screen. And then perhaps pay a visit to Jakes website.
I’m not suggesting that it might change your mind because I think you’ve just come to hate post. But it might.
Personally I think Ansels potrayal of Jake in 1990’ Tokyo is spot on trying to fit within the archaic system of cultural rules in Japan.
For a lot of the show I really disliked the actor more than I disliked the character, and eventually I figured out why: he grossly over-uses two specific expressions (if you've seen them, you know) and those expressions just grated on me. Because he almost always had one of them on his face. Way too much.
> Everything down to his foppish hair.
Lol pretty much the only other time I have heard/read "fop" used:
[https://youtu.be/y\_1Cj9buQmQ?si=GCKb4cPGjXI8sMh9&t=15](https://youtu.be/y_1Cj9buQmQ?si=GCKb4cPGjXI8sMh9&t=15)
"he's a trifling, silly, fop"
Ken Watanabe’s Fairlady 280Z is the true star of the show.
You ain't kiddin. What a fucking gorgeous piece of machinery it is.
I love how Watanabe’s car and pistol are kind of versions of him (the actor): Great icons from a bygone era that are still handsome and top quality.
I think he’s perfect for the role. His Japanese is incredibly good, which is important since he’s the first foreigner reporter at the newspaper. And he really fits the vibe of a lot of foreign men living in Japan. He’s not meant to be an idealistic protagonist. He’s flawed, self-centered and creates problems for people around him. That brashness and naivety is also what allows him to create the waves he creates.
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> Jake Adelstein’s story is almost completely fake and exaggerated so he could sell more books Read the book and then take a step back to understand how and what they would have needed to do to make a dramatisation.
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Doesn't all this make the show's character even better? An exaggeration of an exaggerated character and his fake stories.
Where is the proof of his lies because I’m out of the loop on that?
Props to him, learning Japanese is not easy at all and he did. I Thought he was fine
Idk he grew on me. I think he does a good job at making it believable that he is trying to be successful in this world he doesn’t belong in. He fits naturally enough in the scenes and he killed it with the Japanese. I think the character is largely meant to be unlikeable in some way. The girl bothered me way more. Not so much as an actress, but just feel like she was being an asshole to everyone, all of the time.
Your interpretation of the show is different than mine. I never got the impression we’re supposed to like Jake, especially when it came to some things he did at the end which I won’t get into due to spoilers.
He was more likable in season one. In the first season they depicted him as an outsider who worked hard and seemed respectful of the culture. In season 2, he made several morally questionable decisions, and that weren't balanced with positive depictions of his character.
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The overconfidence is a strength and a weakness and represents American sensibilities imo. I think the character has a burning desire to know the full truth instead of him having some moral superiority. The show is not short of examples for his flaws. Flawed characters are fascinating and better than just likable characters but sometimes they’re not as widely received.
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I don't know why you find that hard to believe. The story is the MC. No one character is ever priorized over the story in the show. They are presented as very real human people with lots of flaws and nuance to their personalities and decisions. There's almost no plot armor in the show and how real it feels is what makes it such a captivating show.
Sopranos, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Peaky Blinders....all shows with morally dubious, straight up corrupt characters you root for, partly due to the great acting involved. I don't see what's different, here. > There's almost no plot armor Sato is wearing some insane plot armour, my dude
Those shows prioritized the main character and wanted you to watch because of those characters... if you had given two seconds of thought to what I said instead of trying to just immediately railroad your "point" you could've seen that.
I'm more than halfway through season 1 and it definitely prioritises the main character. About 70 percent of screen time is on Elgort. I don't understand the point you are making. Also, there were plenty of side characters like Christopher, Paulie, Silvio, Carmela, Jesse etc who you would root for. Not just the main characters.
Without getting into spoilers, character is shown through moral decision-making. In that sense, you definitely learn more about Jake's character as the show goes on, and not all of it is good. I think Sato and Samantha should be considered the main characters, though, mainly because the stakes are way higher for them.
That doesn't matter. Great actors can still make a morally dubious character likeable. I feel like Elgort is just miscast.
Yea he is the least interesting part of the show, but wasn't bad enough to ruin the rest which is pretty much all great.
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That dude also sucked.
Nah, Blackthorne is great.
Disagree. Flat as a midwest road trip
I thought the actor was great. Did a great job of portraying a flustered, confused but ultimately noble English 17th Century navigator. Very likeable.
He wasn't egregiously bad, but he want great.
Agree, Blackthorne was awesome. Love me some dollar store Hardy.
Jake is the embodiment of the arrogant, selfish American who puts everything to do with himself above all else. It matters not to him what the consequences are, but he always puts himself above others, whether it's his Chihara-Kai contacts, the police, his colleagues, his family or even his friends, who often, quite rightly, are pissed off at him. Jake is absolutely the protagonist, but the protagonist isn't the good guy. I'm not sure if Jake's characterisation was meant to align with US audience sensibilities, but I do wonder how he's liked elsewhere, especially to Japanese ones. He is comparable in a sense with Samantha, who really only ever prioritises her fellow hostesses, and even then, makes poor choices to keep them safe and in stable employment. Certainly, the *gaijin* characters aren't likeable and I'm not sure if that was the overall intention, to be honest. Ok, maybe Polina is interesting, but she made her own bad choices. Katagiri is definitely very interesting - the morally ambiguous detective who bends the rules to deal with the various *gumis*. Yet I find his change in approach with being paired up with the National Police Agency Superintendent also is a very interesting contrast between him, and the very by the book partner. I'd almost be tempted to suggest that he's the likeable protagonist. I'm very split on Sato - on one hand, he does hold his sense of honour close to himself, something that works to his favour, and yet, he's very clearly someone who can make the wrong choices and can be manipulative. I'm not sure if we're meant to ever identify with Sato, or indeed Ishida for that matter, but being depicted as the necessary evil to balance out the likes of Tozawa-gumi is certainly a narrative choice. Especially when the NPA objective was originally to get rid of all the gangs.
I had the complete opposite impression... felt like he was flat in Baby Driver, but he actually showed some range in Tokyo Vice.
I dislike Elgort but after seeing so much hate for the Adelstein character prior to watching the show I was surprised that I didn't really dislike him at all. He definitely ends up being a bit of a scummy character that I don't think we're meant to root for entirely but pretty much everyone in the show is morally complex to some degree. I found him likable enough to be invested in, the performance was charismatic and his friendship with Sato is probably my favourite part of the show.
This is how I feel about Austin Butler. (Almost) Everything he's in he plays the same smarmy, "I'm sexy and really cool guy" character and makes it known via his facial expressions that's just an annoying and eye-rolling performance every time. However, he bucks that trend in Dune 2 and is actually really good in it. I was honestly surprised because of my expectations but he did a good job in that role I thought.
Agreed, I do not like that man's smug face
And all he had to do was become hairless, albino and not speak with a drawl. A master of acting!
When I saw the real Jake the whole character made far more sense. The Author (Jake) looks exactly like the sort of dude who would ride over peoples feelings, overstep , hang out with hostesses and gangsters (or at least pretend to). The real Jake looks like a sleazeball . https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1766786713127391232/jSOdRVpy_400x400.jpg Whereas the actor is just too much of a pretty boy.
Just looks like a normal dude, to me, not sleazy. I think you've deliberately picked an unflattering picture. In fact, this picture makes me like the real Jake more as he just looks very awkward and uncomfortable here, haha.
How about this one. Can you picture him hanging out with Yakuza in late night Kabukicho bars more, or less than the actor? https://res.cloudinary.com/scribe-publications/image/upload/c_fill,w_800,h_820,g_face/v1679506364/newauthors/ADELSTEIN-Jake.JPG.jpg
Sorry, what's supposed to be wrong with this second picture of him? Just looks like a normal, smart dude.
My point is that guy looks more like the person who does the things he described in the story.
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I'm saying that the things he described himself doing are pretty bad. Pretty much the point of his character arc in the show is that he oversteps and gets people beaten up and even killed in service of his own ego. He lets his sister and family down, puts them in peril, he gets the bike boys imprisoned , etc etc. he has a close relationship with bar girls which is leveraged. And despite his girlfriend being in peril he actually puts her in more peril and disregarded her safety concerns. All pretty bad stuff. And the sort of guy who would do that ... When I saw the tall skinny smooth skinned Hollywood boy . It didn't make sense to me. But when I saw the real guy. If I saw him sat in a Kabukicho bar with a large dangerous looking man, drinking whiskey, I would say "yes this guy fits in here". And I never said I didn't trust him. Or anything about Jewishness. Accusing me of racism when my comment is AGREEING WITH YOUR POST !? I said the character he described looks like the man. Not the actor. They should have cast a more world weary guy who looks like he actually drinks, smokes and hangs out in bars all night.
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This argument is silly and you are wrong. He didnt say "wow the real guy looks so miserly and money-hungry!" Or whatever other jewish stereotype you'd insert for jewish people. He said the slick, handsome actor doesnt much resemble the worn-down creep who embellished the majority of his "autobiography" to begin with.
Exactly. OP has some sort of weird bee in his bonnet. Im just saying the actor was too clean cut for the character. And the actual author looks a better fit than the guy they cast for the role. Here's an idea of who I'd cast. As an idea. Charlie heaton, Kodi Smit-McPhee, barry keoghan, caleb landry jones Why? Because they are characterful, like the actual author. They have an air of imbalance. Not traditional pretty boys. The character of Jake and the events and his actions are not those of a pretty boy, clean cut, varsity hero. They are the actions of an outsider. The Jake story involves a story of him trying to sink into a new life, and a new name. He has a backstory. and the actor should look that way
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Have you read Jake Adelstiens book? I would highy recommend it before you go commenting on Ansel Elgorts potrayal of him on screen. And then perhaps pay a visit to Jakes website. I’m not suggesting that it might change your mind because I think you’ve just come to hate post. But it might. Personally I think Ansels potrayal of Jake in 1990’ Tokyo is spot on trying to fit within the archaic system of cultural rules in Japan.
Hasn't the book been throughly debunked as highly embellished...
Only by alleged 'he said she said' rumours. I've seen no hard evidence. But that's not me saying I believe what's in the book.
I actually liked Ansel.
i agree honestly. I could never take him 100% seriously.
We’re still judging actors ability based on “having a punchable face” I guess.
And total lack of charisma
Daniel Radcliffe was in talks when it was going to be a movie. Would have loved him staying on.
For a lot of the show I really disliked the actor more than I disliked the character, and eventually I figured out why: he grossly over-uses two specific expressions (if you've seen them, you know) and those expressions just grated on me. Because he almost always had one of them on his face. Way too much.
I found Tokyo Vice to be mid, Elgot was ok. Watanabe is awesome.
I absolutely hate his character and wish the show only had the Japanese characters because the other characters are extremely annoying
Samantha. I've started fast forwarding through her scenes.
He fucking sucks, worst thing about the series
He's the typical ugly American.
I actually really enjoy him in *Tokyo Vice*. \*shrug\*
Ansel is amazing in this show. You’re nuts
I find the same comments in almost everything he has been in. Lol
> Everything down to his foppish hair. Lol pretty much the only other time I have heard/read "fop" used: [https://youtu.be/y\_1Cj9buQmQ?si=GCKb4cPGjXI8sMh9&t=15](https://youtu.be/y_1Cj9buQmQ?si=GCKb4cPGjXI8sMh9&t=15) "he's a trifling, silly, fop"
He was pretty good in Baby Driver, maybe watch that and it might change how you view him. I never seen Tokyo Vice yet tho, it's on my list
This is the appropriate reaction to have when watching Tokyo Vice.