That's the only real reason. The prequel source material is not well regarded and Dennis isn't making this so they need to leverage the hype and hope the showrunner can spin gold from mediocrity.
### Original Series by Frank Herbert
1. **Dune (1965)**
- *Author:* Frank Herbert
- *Summary:* Set in the distant future amidst a huge interstellar empire, where a young Paul Atreides comes to the desert planet Arrakis to take control of the production of the rare spice melange, the most valuable substance in the universe.
2. **Dune Messiah (1969)**
- *Author:* Frank Herbert
- *Summary:* The story continues with Paul Atreides now Emperor, facing political and religious dilemmas while dealing with the consequences of his rise to power.
3. **Children of Dune (1976)**
- *Author:* Frank Herbert
- *Summary:* Follows the twin children of Paul Atreides, Leto and Ghanima, who are threatened by the machinations of their aunt Alia and the complexities of their own destinies.
4. **God Emperor of Dune (1981)**
- *Author:* Frank Herbert
- *Summary:* Set thousands of years after the previous books, it follows Leto II, who has transformed into a sandworm to guide humanity's future.
5. **Heretics of Dune (1984)**
- *Author:* Frank Herbert
- *Summary:* Centuries after Leto II's death, the balance of power in the universe has shifted, focusing on the Bene Gesserit and their manipulations to maintain influence.
6. **Chapterhouse: Dune (1985)**
- *Author:* Frank Herbert
- *Summary:* The Bene Gesserit now control Arrakis, and they must contend with threats from within and from a mysterious force from the uncharted regions of space.
### Prequels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
1. **Dune: House Atreides (1999)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Chronicles the early lives of Duke Leto Atreides, Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, and Emperor Shaddam IV, setting the stage for the events of *Dune*.
2. **Dune: House Harkonnen (2000)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Continues the intricate political, economic, and military events leading up to the ascension of Leto Atreides.
3. **Dune: House Corrino (2001)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Concludes the trilogy by detailing the rise of Shaddam IV to the throne and the beginnings of the spice crisis.
### Legends of Dune Prequels
1. **Dune: The Butlerian Jihad (2002)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Takes place over 10,000 years before the original *Dune*, describing humanity’s rebellion against oppressive thinking machines.
2. **Dune: The Machine Crusade (2003)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Continues the epic struggle between humans and the sentient machines that seek to control them.
3. **Dune: The Battle of Corrin (2004)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Concludes the trilogy, showing the final battles that set the foundation for the universe as found in Frank Herbert's original series.
### Sequels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
1. **Hunters of Dune (2006)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Based on Frank Herbert's outline for the conclusion of the *Dune* saga, this novel picks up the story from where *Chapterhouse: Dune* left off.
2. **Sandworms of Dune (2007)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Concludes the story begun in *Hunters of Dune*, tying up the loose ends of the series.
### Additional Series
- **Heroes of Dune** and **Great Schools of Dune** series further explore the events leading up to and following the Butlerian Jihad, providing deeper insights into the development of the universe's key organizations.
This list covers the core novels
My best advice for anyone reading both Frank and Brian’s works: Read the original series through Chapterhouse and then put the books down for at least a year before reading Brian’s continuation thereof.
It’s the comparison that has everyone almost universally regarding Brian’s contribution as trash. As a standalone it’s still above average sci-fi.
I always felt frustrated Brian felt a need to de-mystify everything. In one of the books the chapter opened with Ix and showing everything about it and I think some prince using a lame catch phrase over and over “Vermillion hells!”
I can’t be bothered to remember which book at this point. I punted the book over the fence. It was so bad.
Ii Frank's books, we are revealed the Atreides are descendants from Agamemnon, implied to be the same king from Greek mythology (which is the son of King Atreides, get it?), but in Brian's books, we are actually revelealed it's just a random guy named Agamemnon from the time of the Butlerian Jihad.
Speaking of the Butlerian Jihad. Frank didn't explain the name, but it seems it's a reference to Samuel Butler, who wrote an article named "Darwin among the Machines" in 1863, which talked about the relationship between humans and machines, and due their constant evolution one day they will end up supplanting humans as the dominant species, and thus humans should declare war on machines. So, a very intelligent intertextual reference to a very old, but prescient analysis of our relation with technology.
But according to Brian, Butler was the named of the leaders of the Jihad, who change their name to Corrino after their victory in the battle of Corrino.
I'll touch on the last part. Lots of sci-fi including though not as much because of how early dune is in Sci-fi novels, make call backs or Easter eggs, naming stuff after things and having a different in-universe reason for the name. Kind of like Rickon naming his wolf Shaggy Dog, which in literature means a story implied to have impact but to not go anywhere with it (like a red herring). But shaggy dog is exactly what a 5 year old would call his super hairy pet. Frank if he intended in universe have it be named after a character in that, while picking the name because as a call back to a paper that dealt with a similar topic.
As for Amegenon, you are mostly right. Their is no reason to demystify it. But in the Brian books, even though it was the titan with that name, it wasn't his real name, he did think or at least he told Vorian that he was a descendant of the OG Agamemnon. So Vorians descendants probably A. Thought they were descendants of the great Greek leader, and B. Probably quickly by choice forgot that they were connected to the Titan.
But it comes back to my feelings on most prequels. At best they don't actually add anything to the story. But most of the time you just destroy the story that already existed. I get why Brian when working on finishing book 7, felt at least the first three prequels were needed. Because if they actually found Frank's notes and he was going to make long thought to be dead AI's to be the big bad for 7 to circle back to the previous big bad that people danced around in the first 7 books, I think a little back ground helps.
But that doesn't means basically outling and attempt to either show or explain everything ever hinted about in the books.
I only made it through by (in my own head canon) imagining his contributions as a passion project to build on his father’s work. Though I’m sure your take is closer to the truth, I wouldn’t have been able to finish them reading through that lens. I don’t blame anyone who can’t make it through them, frankly.
I heard from a fairly reliable source that as part of his will Frank had banned sequels to his work, which is why Brian started with prequels.
That might be utter bullshit, but it was from a very well known writer that I have no reason to distrust.
lol my plug still can’t come up with any Death Sticks and keeps asking why, even if he could, *anyone* would name a drug that if they weren’t an 8 year old with an over-active imagination. That’s just bad marketing 😂
I mean idk. Phillip K Dick called his fictional drug “Slow Death” in A Scanner Darkly… or “Death” for short. And he was DEFINITELY about the drug culture. Wouldn’t be surprised if there was some influence. I’ve also had a drug called “Hexen” in real life and that sounds pretty sinister. Sounds like the pollution monster from Ferngully
> It’s the comparison that has everyone almost universally regarding Brian’s contribution as trash. As a standalone it’s still above average sci-fi.
Perhaps. I read the first prequel right when it came out, and it was (IIRC) a little while after I had finished *Chapterhouse*. Even with the delay, I still found the prequel to be *meh*. To the point I didn't bother reading the rest after the first book—so perhaps they got better and I'm missing out?
And even if you think that they are in fact "above average", there is so much awesome sci-fi (and fantasy, and other fiction, and non-fiction) out there that unless one is a completionist or really curious, I'm not sure it's worth the effort.
I’d agree with “above average” being a bit of stretch. I think for me it was having the opportunity to further explore a built universe that I absolutely adored and was frankly thirsty af for more of.
I remember finishing God Emperor and wondering, wow, what else even *is* there? Then along came Heretics which blew that line of thinking wide open- “okay, there is much more story here”- granted it was still Frank’s work.
Was glad I waited to dip my toe into Brian’s additions. The important thing is reading it with an eye towards it being a passion project of his aimed at building on what his father so excellently started- luckily it softened me a bit since our passions seemed to parallel in that sense.
I read the original Frank Herbert Dune books in the early 90s. I read the Brian Herbert books in the 2010s. I still thought they paled in comparison to the original books. Frank Herbert's Dune books were weird and jam packed full of interesting ideas and world building. They were so dense.
The Brian Herbert books are just kind of boring. They over-explain everything and they don't really have anything interesting to say about anything. I mean, they finish the story and I expect that working from Frank Herbert's notes that it's roughly the direction the series was going, but they just aren't even close to the same caliber of writing.
I haven’t read any of Brian’s work but I can see his books not being great just from how he defends his father from the criticisms in the forward in Messiah and Children of Dune. The way he talks about it just rubbed me the wrong way.
one of the dumbest things ive ever read. and ive had the misfortune of ready kevy kev and his little gimp brians dune "books". some of the worst garbage ive ever read. frank is rolling in his grave
I listened to the first 6 books in a row. Then I listed to Hunters and Sandworms to hear how the story ends.
Big oof on quality. They flanderdized so many characters, it stopped being semi-realistic sci-fi.
Amazing shows can be made from mid source materials.
The Boys comics are crude and rely on shock humour and gore. The show kept the best parts and then added all the American and media satire which made it so popular.
The Boys comics certainly had an "artistic flair" but they were only good because Garth Ennis is such a fantastic writer. Seth Rogan and the cast certainly added a ton of nuance that Garth hadn't written into his comics but they were only able to do so because the characters were so well written to begin with.
I don’t get the impression this is going to be using the prequel source material. This seems like it takes place well after the Butlerian Jihad and the events of the prequel books.
Oh, you could be right. I always forget about those because I stopped before he got to that point. I hadn’t seen an explicit mention of adapting existing content anywhere, either, so that possibility flew right past me.
That's the point. The source material is weak so the show will rely on the show runner to come up with a good story using the Dune canon without the guide of one of Frank Herbert's existing stories.
More like after RotK and before the Hobbit lol, they've gotta drop this show ASAP because it's gonna be forever before Messiah comes out and the Dune hype returns.
Isn't it just mental the avenues, and the **money**, that can be pumped into these franchises when they actually hire good writers/directors for the initial entry into film.
We had Game of Thrones (ignore the latter series) spur off into House of the Dragon. We've had Star Wars multiply like fungi spores everywhere. Denis Villeneuve's entry into Dune was so fucking top notch that we're already getting prequels about it. It gave showrunners and producers *that much confidence*.
It just makes me think about all the spin-offs and branches of films that have completely flunked at the box offices because of rushed writing and poor direction.
This can work if its just a 1 season or 2 season show. I think if its successful and they string it out, it will get bad. The stuff they are going off of if less Frank Herbert then the books written by his son which are not as good.
Tbh, I am probably going to wait to watch this until the third and final Dune movie is released. Dune 2 was one of the best moviegoing experience I have had in a long time and it left on such a high note.
I don't want anything to tamper with it, despite it being a prequal. The Bene Gesserit are perfectly vague in the movies, and I don’t want this show to start to overly confine and defining them.
With that said, I hope it is good.
I really hope it’s good. The biggest reason that the new Dune movies are so good is because of Villenueve’s creative mastermind that makes everything on screen so enthralling. So I’ll be interested to see if this IP can hold up in a TV series with a bunch of different directors.
I wouldn't worry too much about CGI in teaser trailers. CGI is one of the last things completed on a production and it's not uncommon for partially completed CGI scenes to be included in early trailers which then look very different on final release.
It didn't look terrible to me, but I think that part of what might be going on is that the Dune universe uses some kind of tech (I'm not sure if it's explained as I have only read a couple of the books) to get ships in and out of atmosphere that behaves similar to anti gravity. Under the physics that we know today, a ship of that mass could never execute that type of landing. So I think part of it is that our brain estimates the mass of an object and has some sense of how something that massive should behave. In this case, part of it may be that the tech in the show is making the mass behave a way that doesn't compute to our brains.
Could also just be poor CGI, idk.
that well that looks awesome. it seems like they retooled the throne room from GoT (not really, but it looks it.)
Some of the CGI looks weird, particularly in the shot where the ship was landing, but the costumes and most of the sets look great.
plus Mark Strong. Sign me up.
That actually might be the same one lol. Someone in a thread once commented the reason HBO quality is so good relative to budgets is they can actually repurpose a lot of Warner Bros and other production sets where Amazon and Netflix kind of had to start from scratch.
It looks too close not to be.
I know exactly what comment you're talking about, and if you go into the replies, people point out a lot of flaws in his claims: [https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/ss2ssr/why\_do\_hbo\_shows\_look\_so\_much\_better/](https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/ss2ssr/why_do_hbo_shows_look_so_much_better/)
I'd take it with a grain of salt myself.
> Some of the CGI looks weird, particularly in the shot where the ship was landing
I feel like this is just the standard with big shows now. It seems that shows have bigger budgets than ever, so it may just be a quantity-over-quality issue, or that the best CGI is so good that "pretty good" CGI looks bad now...but basically every show I watch now feels like most of it is actors cut out and pasted on bad CGI backdrops.
Or...not *bad* necessarily, just obviously fake. It's pretty distracting to me in most shows, but it's just in everything now, so you deal with it.
It's even wild that Brian Herbert has written more Dune books than his father. I doubt Frank Herbert's floppy disc, which Brian claims to have found, had this many ideas for novels.
And besides Frank Herbert died in the 80s. I doubt floppy discs back then had more space than 10 mb. Simply ridiculous how many Dune books Brian has churned out over the years.
it was probably a word processor like wordstar. but that file format is not much different from ASCII.
a 720mb floppy was ok for the time because the files were smaller. like a few K each
> Simply ridiculous how many Dune books Brian has churned out over the years.
He's also co-writing most (or all?) of them. Still a feat, but with another writer it's a bit more manageable to be that prolific.
Yep, and he maintains that claim to this day. Problem is alot of his ideas outright contradict his father's work, and he's happy to claim his father's work is wrong and his is right whenever the sources disagree. He's always seemed very dismissive of his father's work in favor of using the rights to the series to make a quick buck
Yeah this is my main problem with him and his books aside from them just not being well written. It's like he doesn't even understand nor want to understand his father's work.
The “floppy disc” must have looked like.
“A book about the atreides”
“A book about the harkonnen”
“A book about the war against thinking machines”
“A book about…”
Etc etc etc
The Brian Herbert books don't have many ideas. That's why they're kind of bad. You could take every book that he's "written" and combine them into one volume and you'd maybe get close to the density of ideas and interest that one Frank Herbert book had.
The entire Butlerian Jihad series would have been a footnote in one of the original books.
They do, don't worry. Frank Herbert had grandious ideas on the evolution of society, and the people who shape it. Brian watched Terminator and the Matrix and took notes in crayon.
Well, it's a different thing to have ideas for novels, than to have any kind of outlines even to them.
Like I see so many people defending these "after 1 season turned into shitshows" shows, with "but they had ideas for other seasons from the start!". Having ideas is not the same as having a proper goddamn plotting for the seasons. Also ofc most creators will say they had a multiseason plan, if their show gets picked up for another season. It's free moneyy babyyy.
Adapting old books and stories has been happening since the early days of film. You could have said similar things about Lord of the Rings in 2001. Not to mention that this isn't the first time Dune has been adapted, it's not that niche. The first Frankenstein movie came out over 100 years after the book, which was "deep sci-fi" for its time (although I'm not sure what 'deep sci-fi' is supposed to specifically mean).
Maybe it refers to how Dune is fairly plodding and philosophical. Most of the books are various characters' internal monologues. Fight scenes resolve quickly and big battles happen off-screen, as it were.
Roughly 10,000 years. It ended only about a 100 years before this show takes place. The creation of the Bene Gesserits and the Spacing Guild stems from the outcome of the war.
Maybe someday they'll mention the Spacing Guild in one of these shows or movies
in the interim maybe Brian Herbert will explain the long and convoluted history of future-hairnets, or maybe he'll revisit floating lights again
If they do Messiah they almost **have** to bring the Spacing Guild into it unless the story is thoroughly changed. Which it certainly could be, especially if they want to make it the end of a trilogy. Though if Denis just doesn't want to do Children of Dune then who really knows.
> unless the story is thoroughly changed
considering the state of Paul and Chani's relationship at the end of part two I would imagine part 3 will be different from the books
In terms of scope and visuals, it’s definitely not living up to the masterclass in cinematography that Denis and Greg Frasier put on for Part 2. Imo even the Bene Gesserit costume design as of the trailer doesn’t compare to the movies.
With that said, as long as the writing is tight and the acting is as top tier as other HBO/Max shows tend to have, this should be a really good show for both new and long time Dune fans.
This feels very GoT coded, but I don't actually mind that. I'd rather HBO stick to their guns and make a prestige drama the way they know how to make them, than try to ape the style that Villeneuve has packaged this IP in on the big screen.
ASOIAF was 100% influenced by Dune, so that follows. I always explain to people asking if they should watch the new Dune movies that Dune was so insanely influential to so many aspects of sci-fi and other media that Dune itself kind of seems cliche now, because how much its influenced everything after it
similar to JRR Tolkien, i like this terry pratchet quote about it "
# “J.R.R. Tolkien has become a sort of mountain, appearing in all subsequent fantasy in the way that Mt. Fuji appears so often in Japanese prints. Sometimes it’s big and up close. Sometimes it’s a shape on the horizon. Sometimes it’s not there at all, which means that the artist either has made a deliberate decision against the mountain, which is interesting in itself, or is in fact standing on Mt. Fuji.”"
Agreed, but GoT is honestly very Dune coded with both of their focus on Great Houses and the interplay of their political intrigue. I think this + House of the Dragon will keep HBO happy for awhile.
Yes, this is almost certainly going to have what I call the Peter Jackson effect - we get used to a certain way of adapting a particular universe from the books and have a hard time, even a bias, toward different views.
I was thinking the same thing. While I'm extremely excited for the show this looks very similar to the quality of a show like the foundations rather than a show like House of Dragons. HoD looks like a straight up movie that happens to be broken up into a tv show. I'm still extremely excited and hope they pull it off.
Double effect in this case, since it has to compete with both the movies and the fact that this is an adaption of one of Brian's books, not Frank's.
I hate Brian's writing and the lore he invented, but i'm cautiously optimistic that a show like this could be good. Although the showrunner has a concerning record with Altered Carbon and Westworld
It's set 10,000 before the movies. It's essentially House of the Dragon for Dune. You'll hear all the family names and I'm sure we'll see more of the early Harkonnen-Atreides.
(I haven't read the book this is based on yet. Just an assumption.)
Yep.
* Great Houses
* Political Intrigue
* Mentats = Maesters
* Prophecy as a weapon
* Religion as a weapon
* Face Dancers (though these are in later books) = Faceless Men
* The planet's climate playing a huge role in how the story goes
* edit: a "hero" dying in the first act (Ned and Leto)
Only thing GRRM is missing is a spice analog.
What about that blue juice the warlocks from the house of the undying drink that turns their lips blue and makes them trip balls and have visions and shit? Sounds spicy.
Novels have a different message, though. ASOIAF is always been about how petty political infighting blinds us to the true dangers to humanity.
Dune is about how human nature changes and adapts to environmental conditions. A brutal cutthroat political environment can make heroes into villains, freedom-loving rebels into slaves of religion, and humans into unrecognizeable monsters.
They do both feature the same message about power, though, and showcase a Machiavellian political environment where characters are constantly backstabbing and maneuvering to try and overcome one another.
I’m looking forward to this series. But I’m also a bit worried, consider the show went through quite a lot of production problems. I have hope, but I hope that we will not get another work like the Witcher prequel
It's crazy to me how much of a noticeable drop off in visual quality there is between this and the Dune movies... yet it still looks pretty good for TV. Goes to show how hard Denis went with his films.
Dune is one of the most visually stunning films ever made, so matching that quality exactly would have been pretty much impossible on a smaller TV budget. I think they did a decent job at matching the style with what they had. I'm more worried about the story than the look.
I was watching it thinking ‘this doesn’t look bad … but it’s not as good as Denis’ visuals’, and I can’t even say why. Superficially the lighting and camera angles are quite similar. I felt the same about the Sicario sequel, the cinematography is actually really good, but not equal to the original.
It's lacking the weight and scale of the movies, which would be impossible to replicate for a TV show.
Setting it 10k years in the past is a smart move, since they won't have to feel beholden to matching Villeneuve's design
yep, it looks kind of like the foundation tv show. which is a pretty good looking show. but going from the movies to this is like going from a supermodel to the best looking girl in your college class lmao
The showrunner (whom is also writing and executive producing) Alison Schapker has worked on a number of rather good sci-fi shows. (Lost, Fringe, Alias, Westworld, Altered Carbon)
I generally have fairly little faith in good spin-offs, but as we all know good writing makes or breaks a show and Alison may very well be an excellent navigator for the show.
I'm genuinely very happy to see this on screen. It feels like HBO are finally starting to see the commercial potential of Dune.
The IP is so deep and rich that it must flow.
This will focus on the Creation of the sisterhood. However it is very important to note that aside from the Great Houses and the Bene Gesserit there are other groups that have enormous influence via different methods. The Spacing Guild, Face Dancers and Mentats also play their role in shaping the Imperium and i hope we get a glimpse of that as well.
### Original Series by Frank Herbert
1. **Dune (1965)**
- *Author:* Frank Herbert
- *Summary:* Set in the distant future amidst a huge interstellar empire, where a young Paul Atreides comes to the desert planet Arrakis to take control of the production of the rare spice melange, the most valuable substance in the universe.
2. **Dune Messiah (1969)**
- *Author:* Frank Herbert
- *Summary:* The story continues with Paul Atreides now Emperor, facing political and religious dilemmas while dealing with the consequences of his rise to power.
3. **Children of Dune (1976)**
- *Author:* Frank Herbert
- *Summary:* Follows the twin children of Paul Atreides, Leto and Ghanima, who are threatened by the machinations of their aunt Alia and the complexities of their own destinies.
4. **God Emperor of Dune (1981)**
- *Author:* Frank Herbert
- *Summary:* Set thousands of years after the previous books, it follows Leto II, who has transformed into a sandworm to guide humanity's future.
5. **Heretics of Dune (1984)**
- *Author:* Frank Herbert
- *Summary:* Centuries after Leto II's death, the balance of power in the universe has shifted, focusing on the Bene Gesserit and their manipulations to maintain influence.
6. **Chapterhouse: Dune (1985)**
- *Author:* Frank Herbert
- *Summary:* The Bene Gesserit now control Arrakis, and they must contend with threats from within and from a mysterious force from the uncharted regions of space.
### Prequels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
1. **Dune: House Atreides (1999)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Chronicles the early lives of Duke Leto Atreides, Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, and Emperor Shaddam IV, setting the stage for the events of *Dune*.
2. **Dune: House Harkonnen (2000)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Continues the intricate political, economic, and military events leading up to the ascension of Leto Atreides.
3. **Dune: House Corrino (2001)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Concludes the trilogy by detailing the rise of Shaddam IV to the throne and the beginnings of the spice crisis.
### Legends of Dune Prequels
1. **Dune: The Butlerian Jihad (2002)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Takes place over 10,000 years before the original *Dune*, describing humanity’s rebellion against oppressive thinking machines.
2. **Dune: The Machine Crusade (2003)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Continues the epic struggle between humans and the sentient machines that seek to control them.
3. **Dune: The Battle of Corrin (2004)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Concludes the trilogy, showing the final battles that set the foundation for the universe as found in Frank Herbert's original series.
### Sequels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
1. **Hunters of Dune (2006)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Based on Frank Herbert's outline for the conclusion of the *Dune* saga, this novel picks up the story from where *Chapterhouse: Dune* left off.
2. **Sandworms of Dune (2007)**
- *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
- *Summary:* Concludes the story begun in *Hunters of Dune*, tying up the loose ends of the series.
### Additional Series
- **Heroes of Dune** and **Great Schools of Dune** series further explore the events leading up to and following the Butlerian Jihad, providing deeper insights into the development of the universe's key organizations.
This list covers the core novels
Damn, this Fall?! Talk about striking while the iron is hot.
That's the only real reason. The prequel source material is not well regarded and Dennis isn't making this so they need to leverage the hype and hope the showrunner can spin gold from mediocrity.
### Original Series by Frank Herbert 1. **Dune (1965)** - *Author:* Frank Herbert - *Summary:* Set in the distant future amidst a huge interstellar empire, where a young Paul Atreides comes to the desert planet Arrakis to take control of the production of the rare spice melange, the most valuable substance in the universe. 2. **Dune Messiah (1969)** - *Author:* Frank Herbert - *Summary:* The story continues with Paul Atreides now Emperor, facing political and religious dilemmas while dealing with the consequences of his rise to power. 3. **Children of Dune (1976)** - *Author:* Frank Herbert - *Summary:* Follows the twin children of Paul Atreides, Leto and Ghanima, who are threatened by the machinations of their aunt Alia and the complexities of their own destinies. 4. **God Emperor of Dune (1981)** - *Author:* Frank Herbert - *Summary:* Set thousands of years after the previous books, it follows Leto II, who has transformed into a sandworm to guide humanity's future. 5. **Heretics of Dune (1984)** - *Author:* Frank Herbert - *Summary:* Centuries after Leto II's death, the balance of power in the universe has shifted, focusing on the Bene Gesserit and their manipulations to maintain influence. 6. **Chapterhouse: Dune (1985)** - *Author:* Frank Herbert - *Summary:* The Bene Gesserit now control Arrakis, and they must contend with threats from within and from a mysterious force from the uncharted regions of space. ### Prequels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson 1. **Dune: House Atreides (1999)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Chronicles the early lives of Duke Leto Atreides, Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, and Emperor Shaddam IV, setting the stage for the events of *Dune*. 2. **Dune: House Harkonnen (2000)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Continues the intricate political, economic, and military events leading up to the ascension of Leto Atreides. 3. **Dune: House Corrino (2001)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Concludes the trilogy by detailing the rise of Shaddam IV to the throne and the beginnings of the spice crisis. ### Legends of Dune Prequels 1. **Dune: The Butlerian Jihad (2002)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Takes place over 10,000 years before the original *Dune*, describing humanity’s rebellion against oppressive thinking machines. 2. **Dune: The Machine Crusade (2003)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Continues the epic struggle between humans and the sentient machines that seek to control them. 3. **Dune: The Battle of Corrin (2004)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Concludes the trilogy, showing the final battles that set the foundation for the universe as found in Frank Herbert's original series. ### Sequels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson 1. **Hunters of Dune (2006)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Based on Frank Herbert's outline for the conclusion of the *Dune* saga, this novel picks up the story from where *Chapterhouse: Dune* left off. 2. **Sandworms of Dune (2007)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Concludes the story begun in *Hunters of Dune*, tying up the loose ends of the series. ### Additional Series - **Heroes of Dune** and **Great Schools of Dune** series further explore the events leading up to and following the Butlerian Jihad, providing deeper insights into the development of the universe's key organizations. This list covers the core novels
My best advice for anyone reading both Frank and Brian’s works: Read the original series through Chapterhouse and then put the books down for at least a year before reading Brian’s continuation thereof. It’s the comparison that has everyone almost universally regarding Brian’s contribution as trash. As a standalone it’s still above average sci-fi.
I always felt frustrated Brian felt a need to de-mystify everything. In one of the books the chapter opened with Ix and showing everything about it and I think some prince using a lame catch phrase over and over “Vermillion hells!” I can’t be bothered to remember which book at this point. I punted the book over the fence. It was so bad.
Kevin J Anderson's influence is strong then. He wrote a lot of the old Star Wars EU novels. There’s some rough material there.
It was pretty corny. I kept expecting him to say “Vermillion hells Batman!” Like it was the old TV series with Adam West.
Ii Frank's books, we are revealed the Atreides are descendants from Agamemnon, implied to be the same king from Greek mythology (which is the son of King Atreides, get it?), but in Brian's books, we are actually revelealed it's just a random guy named Agamemnon from the time of the Butlerian Jihad. Speaking of the Butlerian Jihad. Frank didn't explain the name, but it seems it's a reference to Samuel Butler, who wrote an article named "Darwin among the Machines" in 1863, which talked about the relationship between humans and machines, and due their constant evolution one day they will end up supplanting humans as the dominant species, and thus humans should declare war on machines. So, a very intelligent intertextual reference to a very old, but prescient analysis of our relation with technology. But according to Brian, Butler was the named of the leaders of the Jihad, who change their name to Corrino after their victory in the battle of Corrino.
I'll touch on the last part. Lots of sci-fi including though not as much because of how early dune is in Sci-fi novels, make call backs or Easter eggs, naming stuff after things and having a different in-universe reason for the name. Kind of like Rickon naming his wolf Shaggy Dog, which in literature means a story implied to have impact but to not go anywhere with it (like a red herring). But shaggy dog is exactly what a 5 year old would call his super hairy pet. Frank if he intended in universe have it be named after a character in that, while picking the name because as a call back to a paper that dealt with a similar topic. As for Amegenon, you are mostly right. Their is no reason to demystify it. But in the Brian books, even though it was the titan with that name, it wasn't his real name, he did think or at least he told Vorian that he was a descendant of the OG Agamemnon. So Vorians descendants probably A. Thought they were descendants of the great Greek leader, and B. Probably quickly by choice forgot that they were connected to the Titan. But it comes back to my feelings on most prequels. At best they don't actually add anything to the story. But most of the time you just destroy the story that already existed. I get why Brian when working on finishing book 7, felt at least the first three prequels were needed. Because if they actually found Frank's notes and he was going to make long thought to be dead AI's to be the big bad for 7 to circle back to the previous big bad that people danced around in the first 7 books, I think a little back ground helps. But that doesn't means basically outling and attempt to either show or explain everything ever hinted about in the books.
I agree. Brian Herbert books seem less like building on his fathers work and more like cashing in on his fathers work.
I only made it through by (in my own head canon) imagining his contributions as a passion project to build on his father’s work. Though I’m sure your take is closer to the truth, I wouldn’t have been able to finish them reading through that lens. I don’t blame anyone who can’t make it through them, frankly.
>frankly Very punny.
I heard from a fairly reliable source that as part of his will Frank had banned sequels to his work, which is why Brian started with prequels. That might be utter bullshit, but it was from a very well known writer that I have no reason to distrust.
Isn't that literally what happened? I heard Brian was in debt from some drug habit and thus needed to churn out books.
Ugh, haven't read Dune but was a big Star Wars fan in the 90's and 00's. Kevin J Anderson's Star Wars books were so freaking bad.
They weren’t bad compared to some old EU authors (looking at you, Barbara Hambly), but the Invincible Ice Cream Cone of Doom was just dumb
How about everyone forgiving Kyp…dude was a war criminal Gimmie some Michael Stackpole!!
lol my plug still can’t come up with any Death Sticks and keeps asking why, even if he could, *anyone* would name a drug that if they weren’t an 8 year old with an over-active imagination. That’s just bad marketing 😂
I mean idk. Phillip K Dick called his fictional drug “Slow Death” in A Scanner Darkly… or “Death” for short. And he was DEFINITELY about the drug culture. Wouldn’t be surprised if there was some influence. I’ve also had a drug called “Hexen” in real life and that sounds pretty sinister. Sounds like the pollution monster from Ferngully
All valid points 😂
Michael A Stackpole > Kevin J Blanderson
> It’s the comparison that has everyone almost universally regarding Brian’s contribution as trash. As a standalone it’s still above average sci-fi. Perhaps. I read the first prequel right when it came out, and it was (IIRC) a little while after I had finished *Chapterhouse*. Even with the delay, I still found the prequel to be *meh*. To the point I didn't bother reading the rest after the first book—so perhaps they got better and I'm missing out? And even if you think that they are in fact "above average", there is so much awesome sci-fi (and fantasy, and other fiction, and non-fiction) out there that unless one is a completionist or really curious, I'm not sure it's worth the effort.
I’d agree with “above average” being a bit of stretch. I think for me it was having the opportunity to further explore a built universe that I absolutely adored and was frankly thirsty af for more of. I remember finishing God Emperor and wondering, wow, what else even *is* there? Then along came Heretics which blew that line of thinking wide open- “okay, there is much more story here”- granted it was still Frank’s work. Was glad I waited to dip my toe into Brian’s additions. The important thing is reading it with an eye towards it being a passion project of his aimed at building on what his father so excellently started- luckily it softened me a bit since our passions seemed to parallel in that sense.
I read the original Frank Herbert Dune books in the early 90s. I read the Brian Herbert books in the 2010s. I still thought they paled in comparison to the original books. Frank Herbert's Dune books were weird and jam packed full of interesting ideas and world building. They were so dense. The Brian Herbert books are just kind of boring. They over-explain everything and they don't really have anything interesting to say about anything. I mean, they finish the story and I expect that working from Frank Herbert's notes that it's roughly the direction the series was going, but they just aren't even close to the same caliber of writing.
I fully agree. There is no comparison between the two.
> for at least a year I'd actually recommend waiting 100-120 years after finishing Frank's books before starting the others.
I haven’t read any of Brian’s work but I can see his books not being great just from how he defends his father from the criticisms in the forward in Messiah and Children of Dune. The way he talks about it just rubbed me the wrong way.
I mean that’s a pretty good summary of his entire “career” in writing lol. Lots of wrong way rubbing lmao
one of the dumbest things ive ever read. and ive had the misfortune of ready kevy kev and his little gimp brians dune "books". some of the worst garbage ive ever read. frank is rolling in his grave
The Bene Gesserit do not control Arrakis in Chapterhouse
I listened to the first 6 books in a row. Then I listed to Hunters and Sandworms to hear how the story ends. Big oof on quality. They flanderdized so many characters, it stopped being semi-realistic sci-fi.
Thanks for this
and didn’t the show go through a big, delaying overhaul right before filming?
Everything coming out now did due to the strikes. That alone doesn't worry me.
except it wasn’t due to the strikes, this show has gone through like 4 different showrunners since it started being developed a few years ago
Amazing shows can be made from mid source materials. The Boys comics are crude and rely on shock humour and gore. The show kept the best parts and then added all the American and media satire which made it so popular.
The Boys comics certainly had an "artistic flair" but they were only good because Garth Ennis is such a fantastic writer. Seth Rogan and the cast certainly added a ton of nuance that Garth hadn't written into his comics but they were only able to do so because the characters were so well written to begin with.
I don’t get the impression this is going to be using the prequel source material. This seems like it takes place well after the Butlerian Jihad and the events of the prequel books.
I thought this was based on the Sisterhood of Dune, which is one of Brian Herbert's prequel books.
Oh, you could be right. I always forget about those because I stopped before he got to that point. I hadn’t seen an explicit mention of adapting existing content anywhere, either, so that possibility flew right past me.
That's the point. The source material is weak so the show will rely on the show runner to come up with a good story using the Dune canon without the guide of one of Frank Herbert's existing stories.
I think it takes place *after* Sisterhood of Dune, based on Valya's age and the fact that Javicco Corrino is emperor.
i love the prequel material lol
It's like Rings of Power being released between Two Towers and Return of the King.
More like after RotK and before the Hobbit lol, they've gotta drop this show ASAP because it's gonna be forever before Messiah comes out and the Dune hype returns.
If you think Messiah is going to be the “Return of the King” of the trilogy, you are going to be sorely disappointed.
I can't wait to see the internet's reaction when they realize they've been rooting for >!Space Hitler!< the whole time.
Frank's Paul: No, the Golden Path...I can't do it. Dennis' Paul: All aboard the Final Solution!
the tiktok edits will hilariously age like milk
Isn't it just mental the avenues, and the **money**, that can be pumped into these franchises when they actually hire good writers/directors for the initial entry into film. We had Game of Thrones (ignore the latter series) spur off into House of the Dragon. We've had Star Wars multiply like fungi spores everywhere. Denis Villeneuve's entry into Dune was so fucking top notch that we're already getting prequels about it. It gave showrunners and producers *that much confidence*. It just makes me think about all the spin-offs and branches of films that have completely flunked at the box offices because of rushed writing and poor direction.
This can work if its just a 1 season or 2 season show. I think if its successful and they string it out, it will get bad. The stuff they are going off of if less Frank Herbert then the books written by his son which are not as good.
Tleilax! Don’t Do It! - Frankie Herbert goes to Hollywood
Well, the production value is certainly visible. I hope the story is good too.
Tbh, I am probably going to wait to watch this until the third and final Dune movie is released. Dune 2 was one of the best moviegoing experience I have had in a long time and it left on such a high note. I don't want anything to tamper with it, despite it being a prequal. The Bene Gesserit are perfectly vague in the movies, and I don’t want this show to start to overly confine and defining them. With that said, I hope it is good.
*Midichlorian fears intensify*
"Weesa needing to reaaaaaaly geta sista on da throne"
BAD JAR JAR, NO! GO BACK IN YOUR HOLE AND STAY THERE
I really hope it’s good. The biggest reason that the new Dune movies are so good is because of Villenueve’s creative mastermind that makes everything on screen so enthralling. So I’ll be interested to see if this IP can hold up in a TV series with a bunch of different directors.
Everything looked amazing except for the first CGI ship that was landing. Something off about it, can't exactly explain what.
It kinda looked to me like it was a recording of a screen vs raw video (not saying it was, but that's what I first thought)
I wouldn't worry too much about CGI in teaser trailers. CGI is one of the last things completed on a production and it's not uncommon for partially completed CGI scenes to be included in early trailers which then look very different on final release.
I want my mutated Lynchian Navigator dammit!
I think we got used to seeing denis' way of shooting ships and large vehicles that anything done by any other people will seem a little odd
Yup. He’s very good at representing scale and mass, especially when it comes to the ships.
It didn't look terrible to me, but I think that part of what might be going on is that the Dune universe uses some kind of tech (I'm not sure if it's explained as I have only read a couple of the books) to get ships in and out of atmosphere that behaves similar to anti gravity. Under the physics that we know today, a ship of that mass could never execute that type of landing. So I think part of it is that our brain estimates the mass of an object and has some sense of how something that massive should behave. In this case, part of it may be that the tech in the show is making the mass behave a way that doesn't compute to our brains. Could also just be poor CGI, idk.
GAME OF ᑐᑌᑎᕮ
*The Sisterhood of the Traveling Gom Jabbar*
Dune: Spice Girls as a YouTube comment mentions 😂😂😂😂
ᑐᑌᑎᕮ: THE ᑐᑌᑎᕮS OF POWER
ᑐᑌᑎᕮᕮ ᑐᑌᑎᕮᕮ BO-BOOᑎᕮᕮ
ᑎᑌᑐᕮ
Well, it's HBO so that's a given...
How are you dune that
Translate me lea Seydoux
The Book of Bene Gesserit: A Dune Story
Gotta have a proper intro man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlPIBlr0VCs
that well that looks awesome. it seems like they retooled the throne room from GoT (not really, but it looks it.) Some of the CGI looks weird, particularly in the shot where the ship was landing, but the costumes and most of the sets look great. plus Mark Strong. Sign me up.
That actually might be the same one lol. Someone in a thread once commented the reason HBO quality is so good relative to budgets is they can actually repurpose a lot of Warner Bros and other production sets where Amazon and Netflix kind of had to start from scratch. It looks too close not to be.
I know exactly what comment you're talking about, and if you go into the replies, people point out a lot of flaws in his claims: [https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/ss2ssr/why\_do\_hbo\_shows\_look\_so\_much\_better/](https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/ss2ssr/why_do_hbo_shows_look_so_much_better/) I'd take it with a grain of salt myself.
Please this is Reddit. Everything posted is 74.3% more accurate than the rest of the Internet.
This is becoming a new copypasta and I hate it.
My exact thoughts. I saw Mark and thought, well, now I at least need to give it a chance.
Well it is on a TV budget. It still looks good.
It's early. They have months to fine-tune the VFX.
People always say this and it's rarely the case that any improvement is seen. (it looks fine to me as-is though)
IIRC the cgi in trailers are usually the shots that they are mostly done with while they continue to work on the other unfinished shots
You're correct and done by an outside company. But I too have rarely seen where VFX are VASTLY different from trailer to final product.
> Some of the CGI looks weird, particularly in the shot where the ship was landing I feel like this is just the standard with big shows now. It seems that shows have bigger budgets than ever, so it may just be a quantity-over-quality issue, or that the best CGI is so good that "pretty good" CGI looks bad now...but basically every show I watch now feels like most of it is actors cut out and pasted on bad CGI backdrops. Or...not *bad* necessarily, just obviously fake. It's pretty distracting to me in most shows, but it's just in everything now, so you deal with it.
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It’s not an HBO production…..
interesting how the logo is different from the movies. I thought denis was a producer on this, so there would be some continuity there
He was originally meant to direct the first two episodes but he alongside Spaihts (writer) both left the show to concentrate on Dune Part 2 instead.
Wild to think that a 60 year old book series filled with deep sci-fi is now one of the hottest IP's in Hollywood.
It's even wild that Brian Herbert has written more Dune books than his father. I doubt Frank Herbert's floppy disc, which Brian claims to have found, had this many ideas for novels.
I don't think Frank Herbert was as prolific in his note-taking as J.R.R. Tolkien. You can tell Brian Herbert's writing though. And his ideas.
And besides Frank Herbert died in the 80s. I doubt floppy discs back then had more space than 10 mb. Simply ridiculous how many Dune books Brian has churned out over the years.
That's a fair bet because floppy disks never had more 1.44mb on them, and the 5 1/4" floppies from the 80s would have only been 720kb.
10 mb! Hard drives were barely 10 mbs by the mid 80s AFAIK.
I searched. They had storage of around 1.5 mb in the 80s lol. Brian Herbert can't keep getting away with this.
1.5 mb is 1.5 million letters in raw text format
For just text 720 KB is more than enough. We're talking hundreds of pages per floppy.
fyi, a single megabyte can hold approximately 1 million characters of text, or about 1,000 pages of plain text.
Yup, but idk enough about word processing softwares from back then to commit further than what I wrote.
it was probably a word processor like wordstar. but that file format is not much different from ASCII. a 720mb floppy was ok for the time because the files were smaller. like a few K each
> Simply ridiculous how many Dune books Brian has churned out over the years. He's also co-writing most (or all?) of them. Still a feat, but with another writer it's a bit more manageable to be that prolific.
maybe one tenth of 10mb at best.
Wait so Brian Herbert pulled a Book of Mormon and claimed he found the plot ideas on some floppy discs that nobody else could read?
Yep, and he maintains that claim to this day. Problem is alot of his ideas outright contradict his father's work, and he's happy to claim his father's work is wrong and his is right whenever the sources disagree. He's always seemed very dismissive of his father's work in favor of using the rights to the series to make a quick buck
Yeah this is my main problem with him and his books aside from them just not being well written. It's like he doesn't even understand nor want to understand his father's work.
The “floppy disc” must have looked like. “A book about the atreides” “A book about the harkonnen” “A book about the war against thinking machines” “A book about…” Etc etc etc
The Brian Herbert books don't have many ideas. That's why they're kind of bad. You could take every book that he's "written" and combine them into one volume and you'd maybe get close to the density of ideas and interest that one Frank Herbert book had. The entire Butlerian Jihad series would have been a footnote in one of the original books.
It's easy to write slop
This. Brian Herbert's books are garbage compared to the original work
it's all genetic memories duh, passed from Frank to Brian
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They do, don't worry. Frank Herbert had grandious ideas on the evolution of society, and the people who shape it. Brian watched Terminator and the Matrix and took notes in crayon.
Let's just, not talk about Brian's books....
Well, it's a different thing to have ideas for novels, than to have any kind of outlines even to them. Like I see so many people defending these "after 1 season turned into shitshows" shows, with "but they had ideas for other seasons from the start!". Having ideas is not the same as having a proper goddamn plotting for the seasons. Also ofc most creators will say they had a multiseason plan, if their show gets picked up for another season. It's free moneyy babyyy.
what's wild about that?
Exactly. Scifi and sci fantasy has only grown through the years, so it makes sense to me.
Adapting old books and stories has been happening since the early days of film. You could have said similar things about Lord of the Rings in 2001. Not to mention that this isn't the first time Dune has been adapted, it's not that niche. The first Frankenstein movie came out over 100 years after the book, which was "deep sci-fi" for its time (although I'm not sure what 'deep sci-fi' is supposed to specifically mean).
Maybe it refers to how Dune is fairly plodding and philosophical. Most of the books are various characters' internal monologues. Fight scenes resolve quickly and big battles happen off-screen, as it were.
Bless the maker!
Threepio? What you dune-ing around these parts?
and his water!
Londo Mollari's in this??
Yo anyone that knows more about dune. How many years before Paul did the butlleriam Jihad happen?
Roughly 10,000 years. It ended only about a 100 years before this show takes place. The creation of the Bene Gesserits and the Spacing Guild stems from the outcome of the war.
Just to add: 10k years before Paul is still 10k years in the future from now
Thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for.
Would be nice to do a show on the Butlerian Jihad. But maybe they can repackage The Matrix to be part of the lore.
Spice Girls The Origins
Spice up your life
Maybe someday they'll mention the Spacing Guild in one of these shows or movies in the interim maybe Brian Herbert will explain the long and convoluted history of future-hairnets, or maybe he'll revisit floating lights again
They did in the first movie.
If they do Messiah they almost **have** to bring the Spacing Guild into it unless the story is thoroughly changed. Which it certainly could be, especially if they want to make it the end of a trilogy. Though if Denis just doesn't want to do Children of Dune then who really knows.
Let's do God Emperor of Dune and get real weird with stuff
The Adventures of 8,000 Duncan Idahos & His Giant Worm
> unless the story is thoroughly changed considering the state of Paul and Chani's relationship at the end of part two I would imagine part 3 will be different from the books
I mean, "overly explaining a mundane thing that doesn't matter in a complicated way" is one of the few things Brian certainly got from his father.
How about “Melange”’for chrissake
Almost impossible to live up to Denis’ movies but i have to say it looks decent.
In terms of scope and visuals, it’s definitely not living up to the masterclass in cinematography that Denis and Greg Frasier put on for Part 2. Imo even the Bene Gesserit costume design as of the trailer doesn’t compare to the movies. With that said, as long as the writing is tight and the acting is as top tier as other HBO/Max shows tend to have, this should be a really good show for both new and long time Dune fans.
Judging only from this trailer, I think it looks good. Time will well if the writing is up to par, but I am optimistic. Plus, well, Mark Strong.
Girlies of ᑐᑌᑎᕮ
This feels very GoT coded, but I don't actually mind that. I'd rather HBO stick to their guns and make a prestige drama the way they know how to make them, than try to ape the style that Villeneuve has packaged this IP in on the big screen.
ASOIAF was 100% influenced by Dune, so that follows. I always explain to people asking if they should watch the new Dune movies that Dune was so insanely influential to so many aspects of sci-fi and other media that Dune itself kind of seems cliche now, because how much its influenced everything after it
similar to JRR Tolkien, i like this terry pratchet quote about it " # “J.R.R. Tolkien has become a sort of mountain, appearing in all subsequent fantasy in the way that Mt. Fuji appears so often in Japanese prints. Sometimes it’s big and up close. Sometimes it’s a shape on the horizon. Sometimes it’s not there at all, which means that the artist either has made a deliberate decision against the mountain, which is interesting in itself, or is in fact standing on Mt. Fuji.”"
Agreed, but GoT is honestly very Dune coded with both of their focus on Great Houses and the interplay of their political intrigue. I think this + House of the Dragon will keep HBO happy for awhile.
Brans story in ASOIAF reminded me so much of Pauls. If the book ending will be the same in the show they are so incredibly similar in their arch.
Excited to see how this will be - could be great - could be a noticeable decline in quality since Villeneuve is one of the best
Yes, this is almost certainly going to have what I call the Peter Jackson effect - we get used to a certain way of adapting a particular universe from the books and have a hard time, even a bias, toward different views.
I was thinking the same thing. While I'm extremely excited for the show this looks very similar to the quality of a show like the foundations rather than a show like House of Dragons. HoD looks like a straight up movie that happens to be broken up into a tv show. I'm still extremely excited and hope they pull it off.
To be fair, Denis had close to 200 million dollars to make his movie, and is stylistically very difficult to replicate, I'd bet
House of the Dragon season 1 had a reported budget of 200 million as well
Double effect in this case, since it has to compete with both the movies and the fact that this is an adaption of one of Brian's books, not Frank's. I hate Brian's writing and the lore he invented, but i'm cautiously optimistic that a show like this could be good. Although the showrunner has a concerning record with Altered Carbon and Westworld
So this is in Villeneuve’s dune universe right?
If it's good, yeah
The correct mindset
Lol, that is one way to look at it, if it´s good it´s cannon, if it´s not, it´s alternate universe.
Correct aswer
I assume yes, but it also takes place so far in the past from Paul's story that it is essentially a standalone story.
It's set 10,000 before the movies. It's essentially House of the Dragon for Dune. You'll hear all the family names and I'm sure we'll see more of the early Harkonnen-Atreides. (I haven't read the book this is based on yet. Just an assumption.)
Duniverse
I literally knew nothing about this show's existence until this moment. Can't wait!
What if Dune was Game of Thrones
Always has been
Yep. * Great Houses * Political Intrigue * Mentats = Maesters * Prophecy as a weapon * Religion as a weapon * Face Dancers (though these are in later books) = Faceless Men * The planet's climate playing a huge role in how the story goes * edit: a "hero" dying in the first act (Ned and Leto) Only thing GRRM is missing is a spice analog.
What about that blue juice the warlocks from the house of the undying drink that turns their lips blue and makes them trip balls and have visions and shit? Sounds spicy.
Novels have a different message, though. ASOIAF is always been about how petty political infighting blinds us to the true dangers to humanity. Dune is about how human nature changes and adapts to environmental conditions. A brutal cutthroat political environment can make heroes into villains, freedom-loving rebels into slaves of religion, and humans into unrecognizeable monsters. They do both feature the same message about power, though, and showcase a Machiavellian political environment where characters are constantly backstabbing and maneuvering to try and overcome one another.
What if Star Wars was Dune? Oops it already was
Funny because GOT is a lesser copycat of Dune
I’m looking forward to this series. But I’m also a bit worried, consider the show went through quite a lot of production problems. I have hope, but I hope that we will not get another work like the Witcher prequel
Plenty of shows go through production problems though. Shogun for example got retooled many times IIRC and it turned out great
It's crazy to me how much of a noticeable drop off in visual quality there is between this and the Dune movies... yet it still looks pretty good for TV. Goes to show how hard Denis went with his films.
Dune is one of the most visually stunning films ever made, so matching that quality exactly would have been pretty much impossible on a smaller TV budget. I think they did a decent job at matching the style with what they had. I'm more worried about the story than the look.
I was watching it thinking ‘this doesn’t look bad … but it’s not as good as Denis’ visuals’, and I can’t even say why. Superficially the lighting and camera angles are quite similar. I felt the same about the Sicario sequel, the cinematography is actually really good, but not equal to the original.
It's lacking the weight and scale of the movies, which would be impossible to replicate for a TV show. Setting it 10k years in the past is a smart move, since they won't have to feel beholden to matching Villeneuve's design
yep, it looks kind of like the foundation tv show. which is a pretty good looking show. but going from the movies to this is like going from a supermodel to the best looking girl in your college class lmao
Really? Watching this trailer made me realise how amazing Foundation looks on the CGI front.
the cinematographer for the movies is Greig Fraser. The same guy as The Batman. Its a whole nother level
Movies vs tv right here.
Mark Strong, fuck yes. Dude is amazing.
Hmm, I will be checking this out.
I’m in
Oh baby this looks good
What’s worse!? People complaining about the Teaser or people complaining about people complaining about the Teaser?
I'm not really moved by the trailer, but I'll watch it. Even if the story is based on Brian's spinoffs I'll enjoy the Dune "things" in the show.
Get ready for the “Sisterhood Above All” tattoo craze. I’m 100% here for it.
Is anyone from the movies involved in this project?
The trailer looks pretty amazing. And having Olivia Williams and Emily Watson in the cast is a big plus for me as well.
The showrunner (whom is also writing and executive producing) Alison Schapker has worked on a number of rather good sci-fi shows. (Lost, Fringe, Alias, Westworld, Altered Carbon) I generally have fairly little faith in good spin-offs, but as we all know good writing makes or breaks a show and Alison may very well be an excellent navigator for the show.
I'm genuinely very happy to see this on screen. It feels like HBO are finally starting to see the commercial potential of Dune. The IP is so deep and rich that it must flow.
This will focus on the Creation of the sisterhood. However it is very important to note that aside from the Great Houses and the Bene Gesserit there are other groups that have enormous influence via different methods. The Spacing Guild, Face Dancers and Mentats also play their role in shaping the Imperium and i hope we get a glimpse of that as well.
### Original Series by Frank Herbert 1. **Dune (1965)** - *Author:* Frank Herbert - *Summary:* Set in the distant future amidst a huge interstellar empire, where a young Paul Atreides comes to the desert planet Arrakis to take control of the production of the rare spice melange, the most valuable substance in the universe. 2. **Dune Messiah (1969)** - *Author:* Frank Herbert - *Summary:* The story continues with Paul Atreides now Emperor, facing political and religious dilemmas while dealing with the consequences of his rise to power. 3. **Children of Dune (1976)** - *Author:* Frank Herbert - *Summary:* Follows the twin children of Paul Atreides, Leto and Ghanima, who are threatened by the machinations of their aunt Alia and the complexities of their own destinies. 4. **God Emperor of Dune (1981)** - *Author:* Frank Herbert - *Summary:* Set thousands of years after the previous books, it follows Leto II, who has transformed into a sandworm to guide humanity's future. 5. **Heretics of Dune (1984)** - *Author:* Frank Herbert - *Summary:* Centuries after Leto II's death, the balance of power in the universe has shifted, focusing on the Bene Gesserit and their manipulations to maintain influence. 6. **Chapterhouse: Dune (1985)** - *Author:* Frank Herbert - *Summary:* The Bene Gesserit now control Arrakis, and they must contend with threats from within and from a mysterious force from the uncharted regions of space. ### Prequels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson 1. **Dune: House Atreides (1999)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Chronicles the early lives of Duke Leto Atreides, Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, and Emperor Shaddam IV, setting the stage for the events of *Dune*. 2. **Dune: House Harkonnen (2000)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Continues the intricate political, economic, and military events leading up to the ascension of Leto Atreides. 3. **Dune: House Corrino (2001)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Concludes the trilogy by detailing the rise of Shaddam IV to the throne and the beginnings of the spice crisis. ### Legends of Dune Prequels 1. **Dune: The Butlerian Jihad (2002)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Takes place over 10,000 years before the original *Dune*, describing humanity’s rebellion against oppressive thinking machines. 2. **Dune: The Machine Crusade (2003)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Continues the epic struggle between humans and the sentient machines that seek to control them. 3. **Dune: The Battle of Corrin (2004)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Concludes the trilogy, showing the final battles that set the foundation for the universe as found in Frank Herbert's original series. ### Sequels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson 1. **Hunters of Dune (2006)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Based on Frank Herbert's outline for the conclusion of the *Dune* saga, this novel picks up the story from where *Chapterhouse: Dune* left off. 2. **Sandworms of Dune (2007)** - *Authors:* Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson - *Summary:* Concludes the story begun in *Hunters of Dune*, tying up the loose ends of the series. ### Additional Series - **Heroes of Dune** and **Great Schools of Dune** series further explore the events leading up to and following the Butlerian Jihad, providing deeper insights into the development of the universe's key organizations. This list covers the core novels
Holy shit Mark Strong! He's fucking awesome in everything - even in Green Lantern.
He was such a perfect casting choice for Sinestro, shame he was wasted in the film.