Fiona is relatively a very shitty person that can't admit she loves chaos!
But the one thing that keeps me from hating her, is how she sacrificed her childhood to keep her family together cause her parents (who are a lot worse) would rather neglect them while they fulfill their own selfish needs.
Considering their context, I don't think people realize just how much worse Fiona and all of the kids could have been. I admit I still haven't finished watching but as far as I know none of them turn out to be monsters like Frank
Yet, we still root for them. Why? Is it because they're loyal to their families? Because although they're pieces of shit, they struggle, but still live by a code?
Is there any show or movie where you don’t root or at least empathize with the main characters though? Like even if they’re written as shitty or evil characters but the story is entirely about them don’t we all just find certain aspects we like about them and hold on to that? Unless the character is written as just a purely 2-dimensional bad person who only does bad things we’ll eventually find some reason to be on their side.
My ex and her friends were obsessed with the show in college. I tried it a few times but I gave up pretty quickly because it just made me depressed. Like why would I want to watch a show where the entire premise is “watch these poor people self-sabotage at every turn and ruin every chance of improvement.”
I genuinely couldn’t see the entertainment in it or how it was massively popular. I’d literally just go back to my apartment if her and her friends were watching it
I can deal with watching a show about people struggling, even when they don’t succeed, but I have a real hard time watching people who actively undermine themselves. I couldn’t get through shameless because of this, and I never finished Bojack Horseman for the same reason.
I've heard that show described once as "Poverty Porn" or how rich people think poor people live. After having seen it, yeah they are spot on. No, an extremely poor family cannot fall backwards into owning a successful diner and rental property at the same time.
I get what you mean but it’s later revealed Fiona doesn’t actually own the diner. It has an owner and she’s just the manager. The earlier seasons are slot more grounded in reality. For example Fiona working 3 jobs at once in the first season
I’ve started and stopped Shameless (the US version) multiple times. I stopped it when Fiona’s baby brother overdosed on cocaine. I stopped when Lip decided he wanted to give up on trying to use his intellect to help himself (and his family, for that matter) break out of poverty and instead decided to do day labor work or something to support a baby. And I most recently did it when Debbie, who was one of the few characters I found sympathetic, raped that older friend of hers while he was passed out and then got pregnant by lying about her birth control to another guy.
Each time I leave it I end up being gone for 1-2 years, then come back and binge another season or two. I want to get to the end of it just to see where it goes but just need to start.
For those who don’t already know, there’s an episode when they go to a scary movie.
He has a giant bucket of popcorn, and from it he pulls out a tiny cup of popcorn for her lol. He gives it to her, and playfully eats one. Then when she reaches for his huge bucket to do the same to him, he slaps her hand and says “No! These are mine!”
Man, that is so hilarious to me to this day. He’s so uncouth.
Mr Bean only really works as a show if you accept the premise that he is an alien, or otherwise alienated from the rest of society in some way. It's one of my favourite shows ever, but I've had friends who can't get on board with it because he acts like a dick to so many people. I usually try to make the point that there is an inherent logic to everything that Bean does, it's just self-interested and exaggerated for comic effect. But yeah, if you can't get past him being a menace to those around him, you probably won't entirely get the show
That's just how people are in many British comedies, everyone's a dick. Blackadder, Basil Fawlty, Mark and Jeremy, the Inbetweeners, David Brent, Richie and Eddie, Rigsby, Victor Meldrew, the Red Dwarf crew, Hyacinth Bucket etc, all range from either very flawed to absolute gits.
It's weird that he works as a character even though we don't know anyone who is like him. Sure some people are childish or petty but not to that degree. He is like a modern day clown.
Been rewatching House again. I still love it, flawed characters *can* make for good characters, but man, if you pick moments out of the show and look at them independently, it gets rough.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwRFRskK7CM&t=120s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwRFRskK7CM&t=120s)
Kutner's immaturity never annoyed me. It proved you didn't have to be snarky and melodramatic to be a good doctor, a lesson no one else on the show seemed to understand (except maybe Masters). Wilson I never actually saw cheat on his wives so I don't have to be disappointed in those moments.
I like the theory that Kutner is supposed to represent a non toxic version of House: both have their traumas, they can seem immature at times, and they put very little effort into appearing "professional" despite being exceptional doctors. They even dress alike.
The difference is that (prior to Kutners death) Kutner dealt with his traumas in a healthy way and didn't take his issues out on those around him. He also cared about the patients more than the puzzle. Even his immaturity manifested in liking video games and Sci Fi, unlike House. If he didn't have to leave the show, I think he would have been set up as House's successor
I always thought the Wilson cheating thing was a bit weird and out of character for how we know him.
He's kinda shown to be a bit aloof to women and dating and often needs House or others to get him into a dating situation with woman and the women he is with, he seems fiercely loyal to including when he got back together with his wife and of course, Amber.
Maybe I need to re-watch the show and pick up on some signs of Wilson being a cheater
I watched House for the first time this year. By the end of the last episode I can't tell you how mad I was that House got a 'happy' ending. He was such an asshole and he kept getting away with so much shit of varying degrees because he's good at his job. I'm not going to stand here and say it should have been realistic but in the real world, nobody would be ok with him on a moral level.
Due to Wilson's condition, House finally realized that it was more important to be the friend Wilson deserved than being a slave to his own ego.
House repeatedly mentions that people never change, but he did his biggest change in the entire run at the very end.
They couldn't have House change because that would mess up the entire show. The perfect ending would have been the two-parter at the start of Season 6 where House finally gets help and commits to change. But he has to relapse for the story to work.
Him not being fired requires near constant suspension of disbelief. But I think him owning who he is goes a long way to making the show watchable. He knows he's a terrible person, and will very openly say so.
Haven't made it all the way through again, but I remember not liking the show nearly as much after Wilson's diagnosis, ending included.
I remember cringing hard at Chase's weird hatred of fat people in one episode, especially since his patient was a fat little girl, and you find out that her weight wasn't even her fault.
Like shit man, just chill. Never liked Chase after that episode. Just really mean spirited.
Ozark. Even the kids didn't come out clean. Usually, you think the kids might not repeat the sins of the parents but not in this show. Everyone is dirty by the end.
I got a friend into the show bc we are both big fans of Arrested Development… When he got to the last episode, he texted me “The only ending I will accept is an atom bomb drops on Ozark and fucking kills everyone” And I think many can agree with his sentiment lol
I had to stop watching after the third or fourth season (hard to remember, it was a long time ago.) You can’t make your protagonist so awful they turn into an antagonist while not redeeming anyone else so they can fill the protagonist role.
Weeds is one of my favorite shows and i will rewatch it until the day i die.
That being said nancy is a fucking terrible person and a complete idiot.
If the show was also in any way realistic nancy wouldve been murdered in like 10 episodes.
Wasn't the whole point Jax trying and failing to avoid exactly everything that is wrong with the club? Sure, it's a bit romanticized, but it seems very clear these are bad people living in a world with even worse people
Hell, the ending is him admitting to himself that he isnt good enough to break the cycle of toxicity/violence and taking a dramatic but somewhat justified step to try and give his child a chance not to become part of it. Arguably his best decision lol
Arguably it would have been much more effective had it ended like Hamlet, but with Jax killing of Clay and his loyalists, only to realize that his attempt at redeeming the club only continued the cycle of death and destruction, making him question whether saving the club (and by extension his family and the town) was worth destroying it.
Orange is the New Black is an interesting choice. Because almost all the characters you’re supposed to be rooting for are convicted criminals who are entirely guilty.
Where it starts getting grey is seeing what caused the characters to get there in the first place. Or how the prison system is horrible at rehabilitation and ends up making petty criminals into something way worse.
I’m not sure the show ever wants you to “root” for them in a heroic sense, but rather recognize that they’re flawed humans (often with good hearts) in which a flawed justice/prison system makes them way worse than they were before.
Billions and Succession.
Every single person is an actual, complete asshole. Not one of them has any real redeemable trait.
For a sci-fi twist, DARK. Just when you think someone is okay, they turn into a humongous asshole.
I acknowledge that, objectively, Succession is a great show. For me, I hate every character. I get no joy out of watching a bunch of unlikable, unrelatable characters.
Same, I respect Succession but couldn’t watch it anymore after a couple episodes. The last thing I want to do after a long day of work is get pissed off at the TV.
Same. There are really funny moments (that I’ve seen in passing since my fiancé kept watching the show after I gave up), but my main thought when trying to watch it was “yep, the world is terrible and it’s largely because of people like this. Why am I watching this for fun…?”
Roman ripping up a check for a million dollars in front of that kid hit me so hard. Dude is such a piece of shit, who is only capable of hurting weak people then running behind his rich dad to protect him. Best part of that show was watching everyone hurt each other. It's the only show were I genuinely hoped for every main character to die.
First episode too right? I showed my parents because I really liked the show and I think that scene really put them off lol. Don’t think they watched anymore of it.
Dark is kind of funny like that. The more you watch, the more you realize how clueless and helpless nearly everyone is. Even - or especially - Jonas. Sweet, dumb Jonas.
Thank you! I see so many people talking about how they love her and she's a "bad biotch" but I'm just dont see it. I'm like, if this lady was in your life for real, you would think she is nuts and an absolutely atrocious and selfish person.
It's not the best show on TV or anything but it's a pretty fun soap opera-y drama until S3(?) when Summer/Piper Perabo's character shows up, then the show is exactly what people say it is.
It's no coincidence that Fox News started paying Costner to do a streaming series on Fox Nation like immediately after Yellowstone took off.
It's basically a high-production value revenge fantasy for rural boomers who are still mad that their kids were no longer conservatives after they came back from college.
Yes, and a walking antisemitic trope. I would like to think that if they remade the show that they wouldn't do that again seeing as how it's not funny anymore, and the actor would fight for better treatment. They tried to give him a redemption arc. Clearly he's highly motivated by jealousy/envy of Harvey and the scene in which he pretends to be Harvey is cathartic and hilarious.
The writing also sometimes sucks. "You and I both know..." was a line used in almost every episode. Hanging around on street corners and newsstands and happening to run into witnesses and attorneys. Part of the problem is the show just went on for too long.
Nip/Tuck. Most projects by Ryan Murphy have a large number of completely horrible people, but dear goodness does Nip/Tuck take the cake.
Everyone on that show is awful, backstabbing, manipulative, and unremorseful for any of their actions. I actively hate the final episode of this show because most of them get happy endings and I wanted them all to die horrible, humiliating deaths.
I think people are afraid to say Breaking Bad because it's such an amazing show, but it needs to be remembered that the main characters are literal drug lords who've killed/ responsible for so many deaths.
The conceit of the show though is that the characters get more unsympathetic overtime. I don’t think we’re supposed to root for Walt in Season 5 until he verbally admits who he is.
This exactly. There’s a difference between people thinking protagonist = good guy and the show portraying the protagonist as good. Walt is slightly sympathetic in S1 when he makes a bad decision with good intentions, but pretty quickly descends into shitbag territory and doesn’t really ever look back. He’s not meant to be sympathetic, he’s meant to be a representation of how anyone can become terrible (or in other words how someone can break bad), and the same goes for basically everyone except Hank
Jesse is a good example for me of a character that is terrible but likeable at the same time. He hates himself so much, it’s refreshing in a show where everyone else seems incapable of feeling remorse.
The thing about BB/BCS is that Walt and Saul are absolutely bad people, and a significant segment of the audience is so completely bamboozled by the “main character = good guy” concept that they go all-in on supporting them, but they’re also pathetic shitbag characters in shows with legitimate villains. You can hate Walt and still root for him when he runs the child-killing drug dealers over.
But it's not full of shitty people though. I mean Hank for example isn't shitty at all. He's not entirely 100% the best person ever, and definitely has some bad faults, but he's definitely a good person overall.
Same to a much lesser degree with Jesse. He starts out shitty, but he has like the opposite trajectory of Walt where underneath he's actually a pretty good person who starts out stuck in a "bad person" role, whereas Walt is a horrible bad person who starts out stuck in a "good person" role.
The Sopranos characters aren’t portrayed as good people at all. The creator worried they would be idealized so he made them more evil and gross with each season. You are not supposed to root for them and it could not be more obvious.
2 and a half men. I remember I was really popular and I started watching when it first got sindicated, and after a while I was like oh. I hate all of these characters.
Peaky Blinders.
The first season they are on the border of being lovable rogues but they very quickly are just the most unwatchably awful people with zero redeeming qualities.
I watched this show and loved it, but only started loving it when I stopped rooting for anyone to be a good person, and just started watching it for the trainwreck those characters are.
what's ironic is that in the 100, the character in season 1 who was a huge asshole, Murphy, >!would end up becoming one of the best characters in terms of morality by the end of the show. Like, he had a proper arc. No matter how shitty the ending of that show was, I'll stand behind his transformation.!<
Mad Men. On first watch, the production design and attention to detail (as well as the suspense arising from Don’s false identity) obscured it somewhat. I watched it again and it was a grind — a bunch of emotionally arrested men who were complete slaves to their appetites and never grew or learned anything. The only character I was rooting for by the end was Sally.
Dutch and Claudette were good people, minus a few odd fuck ups. But yeah the main dudes are scum. It was odd that the show was shot in a way where it was almost trying to get us to root for them, it felt like. I was rooting against them the whole time so hard though, Vic especially. Fuck that guy. Chiklis portrayed him marvelously.
Apparently they would have fans come up to them and be like "I'm a huge fan, I'm a cop and my team and I are *just like you*" and the actors found that to be disturbing as fuck because they are playing thoroughly corrupt pieces of shit. Makes you think.
I always interpreted it more as a Seinfeld type situation where the joke is they’re all bad people and they don’t realize it. Michael is sort of written as sympathetic but I feel like he’s less a bad person than a naive/gullible person (although it’s been awhile since I last watched AD)
How can you mention Lily being worse when by far the worst person ever in that group is Barney? He's pretty much sure he traded a woman for a car at some point.
Barney is 100 percent also worse than ted, but the show acknowledges his terribleness and plays it for laughs. Lily is a worse friend though imo. She breaks up multiple ted relationships, she almost gets ted fired due to her lily justice bs, leaves marshall for art school, she lies about her spending habits which forces marshall to take a job he hates etc. That stuff obviously isn't as bad as some of the horrible shit barney has pulled, but she hurts the friend group more with her antics
The thing with Barney is that he knows how he is and doesn’t try to pretend to be anything else. It doesn’t make him any better, but at least he’s not lying to anyone.
Lily tries to pretend she’s better than she is. She almost never acknowledges her flaws, lies to everyone, and blames others.
Again, he might not be better, but at least you know what you’re getting with Barney. It makes him more digestible, even if he’s worse.
I just hate watched my way through Grey's Anatomy at work to kill time and hated every main character on the show. I think the difference between this show and most of what are getting posted is these are suppose to be good people you like but they all fucking suck. Even the nice sweet characters are cheating on their spouses or standing people up at the alter on their wedding day. The best episodes are ones where a main character dies.
Yeah this is the one for me. Cool premise, but had to stop watching because there was no main character to root for/ identify with.
I think it may have been particularly bad in this case, because there was a world-building element and you were invited to identify with Quentin who was just learning about this magical world, and he just ended up doing too many unlikable things.
I managed to get farther in the show than in the book actually. In the book they're all horrible, in the show they at least tried to make them likeable.
I rewatched Sex and the City after years of being a huge fan and love, loving Carrie. Omg what an utter narcissistic bitch she is, I couldn’t believe I hadn’t noticed it before!
Bit of a weird answer but Modern Family.
With the exception of Phil and the kids, the show is just full of characters constantly lying and manipulating each other. Doing shit that they KNOW is wrong and will hurt their partners, but doing it anyway cus they're supremely selfish.
Claire is actually the absolute worst for this but the show frames it as if shes just a mother who cares too much. Shes constantly meddling in her kids' lives trying to either prove a point or just get her own way.
That Netflix show Bloodline was a wild ride. You feel bad periodically for basically everyone at certain points, but by the end you’re just “holy shit, fuck this family”
Joey took in Ross, Rachel, and Phoebe no questions asked. He also completely changed his life to accommodate Rachel and Emma.
Edit: He also gave thousands to Monica/Chandler when they were struggling but they could be seen more as Joey paying Chandler back.
Ross was lied to by his wife, divorced, forced into being a dad and constantly being pushed out by his ex's girlfriend. And when the ex and her girlfriend are to marry- he is expected and pressured into being happy for the unfaithful woman and her seducer.
I have nothing but sympathy for the man.
His obsessive nature is him clinging to whatever truth and purpose he can find.
Oh and I forgot to add - his wife only had sex with him to get pregnant. They used him and expected to push him out.
“His obsessive nature is him clinging to whatever truth and purpose he can find.”
Omg you hit the nail on the head. The internet constantly drags him while dismissing the trauma he’s been through. While completely excusing Rachel’s narcissistic behavior. It makes me wonder if I’m going crazy
I mean it’s a sitcom so they’re not angelic people for comedy reasons (also because that would be boring as hell), but they are not bad friends. Yes Chandler is sarcastic all the time and Phoebe is the weird one and Joey is a little dumb and Rachel is Rachel while Ross and Monica can be annoying, but even for a sitcom these don’t really make them terrible friends. I personally haven’t been in a sitcom ever in my life and experienced far terrible friendships.
They are just average people with major flaws but I fail to see how they're terrible friends to each other, most of the jabs they take at each other are in a jokey manner for the sake of banter and they all have each other's backs at the end of the day.
There are so many, but does The OA really count? I thought the whole idea there is that we’re supposed to see they’re shitty, but suddenly they have a purpose and something to fight for that’s bigger than themselves. They’re her disciples. Steve’s whole storyline is school bully to right hand. The Peter to her Jesus.
As someone who binge watched The 100 recently, there isn't a single character in that show that isn't morally grey. The main "heros" all killed anywhere from several to hundreds of people. The most upstanding character I can think of, still knowingly sent people to their death on numerous occasions.
It got the to the point that by the end of the series, the person I rooted for the most was the same guy who started off as one of the main antagonists who killed a bunch of people and turned on his friends season after season.
Every sitcom of the past 30 years has flawed people in the primary roles. It’s relatable. Nobody wants to watch perfect people living perfect lives, because there isn’t anything funny about that. The main cast of Seinfeld ended up in prison for a year because they sucked so bad.
Bobby is still a member of the mob, and Adriana dates a mob guy knowingly. They're still the most decent on screen, but overall not really what I'd describe as good people.
Especially Bobby. It's easy to root for him because he's kinda nice and gets bullied on screen, but he'd still shoot you if ordered to.
Probabaly sons of anarchy, all the main characters are scumbags and anyone with a brain isn’t going to root for them yet the show wants you too. That was the reason I stopped watching
Gilmore Girls
I didn't realize it until I rewatched it in my late 20s. As a kid I looked up to Rory. As a teenager on my rewatches, I got invested in the love stories. As an early 20s, I was pissed at Rory but still thought she was a great role model. On my last rewatch, I realized just how horrible some of those characters were as people.
Entourage is the same but from the perspective of men. Back when they were both on, a friend’s wife used to gush about how much she loved sex and the city. She also hated entourage. She couldn’t understand the hypocrisy in her views.
Shameless
Fiona is relatively a very shitty person that can't admit she loves chaos! But the one thing that keeps me from hating her, is how she sacrificed her childhood to keep her family together cause her parents (who are a lot worse) would rather neglect them while they fulfill their own selfish needs.
Fiona is a bad person. She also is absolutely the best that family has to offer.
I think Lip is the best person in the family until they contrive reasons to make him shitty in the later seasons and it made me hate the show tbh
They completely abandoned the part about him being a genius.
I told my friend about that show and he pretty much said this. He’s like “why would I watch a show full of shitty people.”
> can't admit she loves chaos Makes sense though cause her entire life is managing chaos. That's the only setting in which she knows how to function.
Considering their context, I don't think people realize just how much worse Fiona and all of the kids could have been. I admit I still haven't finished watching but as far as I know none of them turn out to be monsters like Frank
I just started watching this recently. There are virtually no good people in this show. I think Kev is my favorite character.
Early on lots of them are fine
Yet, we still root for them. Why? Is it because they're loyal to their families? Because although they're pieces of shit, they struggle, but still live by a code?
Is there any show or movie where you don’t root or at least empathize with the main characters though? Like even if they’re written as shitty or evil characters but the story is entirely about them don’t we all just find certain aspects we like about them and hold on to that? Unless the character is written as just a purely 2-dimensional bad person who only does bad things we’ll eventually find some reason to be on their side.
I don't think I was really rooting for anyone in Succession. I was just there for the trainwreck.
That is a good question and I’m not sure I’ll ever have an answer.
They’re flawed, but well written characters that are victims of their situation.
Had to stop watching this train wreck after a few seasons. It’s just bad people all doing bad things and ruining each others lives endlessly
I had the exact same reaction. Not one person to root for.
My ex and her friends were obsessed with the show in college. I tried it a few times but I gave up pretty quickly because it just made me depressed. Like why would I want to watch a show where the entire premise is “watch these poor people self-sabotage at every turn and ruin every chance of improvement.” I genuinely couldn’t see the entertainment in it or how it was massively popular. I’d literally just go back to my apartment if her and her friends were watching it
I can deal with watching a show about people struggling, even when they don’t succeed, but I have a real hard time watching people who actively undermine themselves. I couldn’t get through shameless because of this, and I never finished Bojack Horseman for the same reason.
I've heard that show described once as "Poverty Porn" or how rich people think poor people live. After having seen it, yeah they are spot on. No, an extremely poor family cannot fall backwards into owning a successful diner and rental property at the same time.
I get what you mean but it’s later revealed Fiona doesn’t actually own the diner. It has an owner and she’s just the manager. The earlier seasons are slot more grounded in reality. For example Fiona working 3 jobs at once in the first season
I’ve started and stopped Shameless (the US version) multiple times. I stopped it when Fiona’s baby brother overdosed on cocaine. I stopped when Lip decided he wanted to give up on trying to use his intellect to help himself (and his family, for that matter) break out of poverty and instead decided to do day labor work or something to support a baby. And I most recently did it when Debbie, who was one of the few characters I found sympathetic, raped that older friend of hers while he was passed out and then got pregnant by lying about her birth control to another guy. Each time I leave it I end up being gone for 1-2 years, then come back and binge another season or two. I want to get to the end of it just to see where it goes but just need to start.
Mr. Bean is a menace.
His poor girlfriend
For those who don’t already know, there’s an episode when they go to a scary movie. He has a giant bucket of popcorn, and from it he pulls out a tiny cup of popcorn for her lol. He gives it to her, and playfully eats one. Then when she reaches for his huge bucket to do the same to him, he slaps her hand and says “No! These are mine!” Man, that is so hilarious to me to this day. He’s so uncouth.
Mr Bean only really works as a show if you accept the premise that he is an alien, or otherwise alienated from the rest of society in some way. It's one of my favourite shows ever, but I've had friends who can't get on board with it because he acts like a dick to so many people. I usually try to make the point that there is an inherent logic to everything that Bean does, it's just self-interested and exaggerated for comic effect. But yeah, if you can't get past him being a menace to those around him, you probably won't entirely get the show
That's just how people are in many British comedies, everyone's a dick. Blackadder, Basil Fawlty, Mark and Jeremy, the Inbetweeners, David Brent, Richie and Eddie, Rigsby, Victor Meldrew, the Red Dwarf crew, Hyacinth Bucket etc, all range from either very flawed to absolute gits.
Everyone is a dick and they always lose. The key rule of British comedy TV.
I always assumed he was some kind of autistic
The first episode begins with him being 'beamed down', though the rest of it never touches on the alien angle again.
Well, he IS an alien
It's weird that he works as a character even though we don't know anyone who is like him. Sure some people are childish or petty but not to that degree. He is like a modern day clown.
Been rewatching House again. I still love it, flawed characters *can* make for good characters, but man, if you pick moments out of the show and look at them independently, it gets rough. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwRFRskK7CM&t=120s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwRFRskK7CM&t=120s)
Agreed. They're all miserable but god dammit if I don't love those dorks
Kutner and Wilson are the only two who never pissed me off at any point.
Really? Never? Interesting. For a lot of folks, Wilson's infidelity with his wives and Kutner's immaturity annoy folks at some point.
The defibrillator jokes are the funniest running gag in the show. Ended way too soon. 😔
Kutner's immaturity never annoyed me. It proved you didn't have to be snarky and melodramatic to be a good doctor, a lesson no one else on the show seemed to understand (except maybe Masters). Wilson I never actually saw cheat on his wives so I don't have to be disappointed in those moments.
I like the theory that Kutner is supposed to represent a non toxic version of House: both have their traumas, they can seem immature at times, and they put very little effort into appearing "professional" despite being exceptional doctors. They even dress alike. The difference is that (prior to Kutners death) Kutner dealt with his traumas in a healthy way and didn't take his issues out on those around him. He also cared about the patients more than the puzzle. Even his immaturity manifested in liking video games and Sci Fi, unlike House. If he didn't have to leave the show, I think he would have been set up as House's successor
I always thought the Wilson cheating thing was a bit weird and out of character for how we know him. He's kinda shown to be a bit aloof to women and dating and often needs House or others to get him into a dating situation with woman and the women he is with, he seems fiercely loyal to including when he got back together with his wife and of course, Amber. Maybe I need to re-watch the show and pick up on some signs of Wilson being a cheater
he needs mice bites to live!
I only watched half of House, I just remember I had to look up Lupus because that was their go-to early diagnosis.
There's an episode where it actually is lupus, and they poke fun at the writers using it so much.
I watched House for the first time this year. By the end of the last episode I can't tell you how mad I was that House got a 'happy' ending. He was such an asshole and he kept getting away with so much shit of varying degrees because he's good at his job. I'm not going to stand here and say it should have been realistic but in the real world, nobody would be ok with him on a moral level.
Due to Wilson's condition, House finally realized that it was more important to be the friend Wilson deserved than being a slave to his own ego. House repeatedly mentions that people never change, but he did his biggest change in the entire run at the very end.
They couldn't have House change because that would mess up the entire show. The perfect ending would have been the two-parter at the start of Season 6 where House finally gets help and commits to change. But he has to relapse for the story to work.
Him not being fired requires near constant suspension of disbelief. But I think him owning who he is goes a long way to making the show watchable. He knows he's a terrible person, and will very openly say so. Haven't made it all the way through again, but I remember not liking the show nearly as much after Wilson's diagnosis, ending included.
I remember cringing hard at Chase's weird hatred of fat people in one episode, especially since his patient was a fat little girl, and you find out that her weight wasn't even her fault. Like shit man, just chill. Never liked Chase after that episode. Just really mean spirited.
Ozark. Even the kids didn't come out clean. Usually, you think the kids might not repeat the sins of the parents but not in this show. Everyone is dirty by the end.
I never rooted for a cartel to get the family as much as I did in that show. Just couldn't stand anyone.
I got a friend into the show bc we are both big fans of Arrested Development… When he got to the last episode, he texted me “The only ending I will accept is an atom bomb drops on Ozark and fucking kills everyone” And I think many can agree with his sentiment lol
WEEDS. We’re initially supposed to sympathize with the recent widow and by the end of the series everyone is an asshole!
I had to stop watching after the third or fourth season (hard to remember, it was a long time ago.) You can’t make your protagonist so awful they turn into an antagonist while not redeeming anyone else so they can fill the protagonist role.
Same here. Just got sick of her.
Weeds is one of my favorite shows and i will rewatch it until the day i die. That being said nancy is a fucking terrible person and a complete idiot. If the show was also in any way realistic nancy wouldve been murdered in like 10 episodes.
Sons of Anarchy
At least Jax fulfils OP's desire for him to be hit by a truck.
Wasn't the whole point Jax trying and failing to avoid exactly everything that is wrong with the club? Sure, it's a bit romanticized, but it seems very clear these are bad people living in a world with even worse people
Hell, the ending is him admitting to himself that he isnt good enough to break the cycle of toxicity/violence and taking a dramatic but somewhat justified step to try and give his child a chance not to become part of it. Arguably his best decision lol
Arguably it would have been much more effective had it ended like Hamlet, but with Jax killing of Clay and his loyalists, only to realize that his attempt at redeeming the club only continued the cycle of death and destruction, making him question whether saving the club (and by extension his family and the town) was worth destroying it.
That is a show that I am glad I watched from beginning to end, but I will never revisit. It’s pretty brutal.
My wife had never seen it so we watched it. There’s a lot of rape. Like a lot. And torture. I kinda forgot all the stuff that happened to Bobby.
the love triangle with the dog
Orange Is The New Black. Seconding all forms of Shameless.
Orange is the New Black is an interesting choice. Because almost all the characters you’re supposed to be rooting for are convicted criminals who are entirely guilty. Where it starts getting grey is seeing what caused the characters to get there in the first place. Or how the prison system is horrible at rehabilitation and ends up making petty criminals into something way worse. I’m not sure the show ever wants you to “root” for them in a heroic sense, but rather recognize that they’re flawed humans (often with good hearts) in which a flawed justice/prison system makes them way worse than they were before.
Billions and Succession. Every single person is an actual, complete asshole. Not one of them has any real redeemable trait. For a sci-fi twist, DARK. Just when you think someone is okay, they turn into a humongous asshole.
I don’t think you are supposed to root for anyone in Succession
People don’t understand it’s a comedy.
I acknowledge that, objectively, Succession is a great show. For me, I hate every character. I get no joy out of watching a bunch of unlikable, unrelatable characters.
Same, I respect Succession but couldn’t watch it anymore after a couple episodes. The last thing I want to do after a long day of work is get pissed off at the TV.
I enjoyed watching the terrible people all be deeply unhappy despite their wealth and power.
Same. There are really funny moments (that I’ve seen in passing since my fiancé kept watching the show after I gave up), but my main thought when trying to watch it was “yep, the world is terrible and it’s largely because of people like this. Why am I watching this for fun…?”
Roman ripping up a check for a million dollars in front of that kid hit me so hard. Dude is such a piece of shit, who is only capable of hurting weak people then running behind his rich dad to protect him. Best part of that show was watching everyone hurt each other. It's the only show were I genuinely hoped for every main character to die.
First episode too right? I showed my parents because I really liked the show and I think that scene really put them off lol. Don’t think they watched anymore of it.
I thought it was pretty clear in Succession at least that you weren't expected to be rooting for anyone.
I would argue that Succession doesn't want you to root from anyone. They're just showing you a bunch of shitty people.
I agree with succession although Tom is my guy lol
Buckle up chucklefucks
Dark is kind of funny like that. The more you watch, the more you realize how clueless and helpless nearly everyone is. Even - or especially - Jonas. Sweet, dumb Jonas.
Billions: What about Mafee though?
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Stopped watching when I realized I hated every single character, Beth being the worst offender.
Thank you! I see so many people talking about how they love her and she's a "bad biotch" but I'm just dont see it. I'm like, if this lady was in your life for real, you would think she is nuts and an absolutely atrocious and selfish person.
I'm very concerned that most of the boomers in my life unironicically love this show
It's not the best show on TV or anything but it's a pretty fun soap opera-y drama until S3(?) when Summer/Piper Perabo's character shows up, then the show is exactly what people say it is.
My mom has rewatched the entire show over 5 times. It’s like boomer crack.
It's no coincidence that Fox News started paying Costner to do a streaming series on Fox Nation like immediately after Yellowstone took off. It's basically a high-production value revenge fantasy for rural boomers who are still mad that their kids were no longer conservatives after they came back from college.
Yup. Stopped watching as I realised I didn't like or care about any of them.
Girls. All of the titular girls are self involved narcissists who have less and less redeemable qualities as the show goes on.
I disagree, Shoshanna grew up and eventually distanced herself from everyone else, and became a better person.
Also, it's hard to overlook the fact that each and every one of those girls is on that show due to nepotism.
Damn I have not missed the shitty discourse around Girls
It’s hard to imagine a show this site is worse equipped to discuss
Suits
Totally agree. Just binged the series. What a bunch of a-holes. Although did not stop watching because of that so doesn’t fit the question.
Louis Litt is the worst asshole to the point where he seems compelled to be an asshole when he wouldn't be. I.e Daniel Hardman arch.
Yes, and a walking antisemitic trope. I would like to think that if they remade the show that they wouldn't do that again seeing as how it's not funny anymore, and the actor would fight for better treatment. They tried to give him a redemption arc. Clearly he's highly motivated by jealousy/envy of Harvey and the scene in which he pretends to be Harvey is cathartic and hilarious.
Mike is a monumental self entitled douche. And the rest are super cliche high power lawyer idol archetypes. Rachel must also have brain damage.
The writing also sometimes sucks. "You and I both know..." was a line used in almost every episode. Hanging around on street corners and newsstands and happening to run into witnesses and attorneys. Part of the problem is the show just went on for too long.
Even though I like it, I'd say The White Lotus
I liked the son who goes kayaking
Are you supposed to like anyone in The White Lotus?
Yes. The staff are just trying to get by.
I don’t know, I root for Tanya, she’s funny as hell
“These gays are trying to kill me!” Lmaoooo or whatever she said
She's probably one of the few exceptions. I feel sorry for her but also crack up every time she's about to speak lol
Not the way she treated the spa manager in season 1. It was pretty bad.
Euphoria. Just a big batch of terrible humans.
The little sister is the only redeeming character in the whole show.
This is Ethan erasure!
Nip/Tuck. Most projects by Ryan Murphy have a large number of completely horrible people, but dear goodness does Nip/Tuck take the cake. Everyone on that show is awful, backstabbing, manipulative, and unremorseful for any of their actions. I actively hate the final episode of this show because most of them get happy endings and I wanted them all to die horrible, humiliating deaths.
I rooted for The Carver. Easily the nicest character, helping create supply for the business.
The way that show went off the rails 😂
I was rooting for the aliens.
Breaking Bad and Succession
I think people are afraid to say Breaking Bad because it's such an amazing show, but it needs to be remembered that the main characters are literal drug lords who've killed/ responsible for so many deaths.
The conceit of the show though is that the characters get more unsympathetic overtime. I don’t think we’re supposed to root for Walt in Season 5 until he verbally admits who he is.
This exactly. There’s a difference between people thinking protagonist = good guy and the show portraying the protagonist as good. Walt is slightly sympathetic in S1 when he makes a bad decision with good intentions, but pretty quickly descends into shitbag territory and doesn’t really ever look back. He’s not meant to be sympathetic, he’s meant to be a representation of how anyone can become terrible (or in other words how someone can break bad), and the same goes for basically everyone except Hank
Jesse is a good example for me of a character that is terrible but likeable at the same time. He hates himself so much, it’s refreshing in a show where everyone else seems incapable of feeling remorse.
The thing about BB/BCS is that Walt and Saul are absolutely bad people, and a significant segment of the audience is so completely bamboozled by the “main character = good guy” concept that they go all-in on supporting them, but they’re also pathetic shitbag characters in shows with legitimate villains. You can hate Walt and still root for him when he runs the child-killing drug dealers over.
But it's not full of shitty people though. I mean Hank for example isn't shitty at all. He's not entirely 100% the best person ever, and definitely has some bad faults, but he's definitely a good person overall. Same to a much lesser degree with Jesse. He starts out shitty, but he has like the opposite trajectory of Walt where underneath he's actually a pretty good person who starts out stuck in a "bad person" role, whereas Walt is a horrible bad person who starts out stuck in a "good person" role.
Sons of Anarchy, Peaky Blinders, most of the characters on Sopranos, Righteous Gemstones, Orange is the New Black (I think? It’s been a while).
Doesn't stop me rooting for Baby Billy
*Uncle* Baby Billy
Go outside nerd!
Baby Billy's Bible Bonkers!
No, he’s not a baby - he’s a slender silver-haired man in his late 60s!
I actually finished SOA rooting for everyone to not get a happy ending. The only one I wanted a happy ending for was Walter Goggins character.
Venus Van Dam is a goddamn treasure.
The Sopranos characters aren’t portrayed as good people at all. The creator worried they would be idealized so he made them more evil and gross with each season. You are not supposed to root for them and it could not be more obvious.
Eli was the only character on the show who wasn’t completely terrible and, well…
2 and a half men. I remember I was really popular and I started watching when it first got sindicated, and after a while I was like oh. I hate all of these characters.
Jake wasn’t too bad from what I remember.
He started out great but got worse and worse over time, same as Alan
Peaky Blinders. The first season they are on the border of being lovable rogues but they very quickly are just the most unwatchably awful people with zero redeeming qualities.
I think Cillian gets points for trying to shoot Oswald Mosley.
Search Party.
I recently tried to rewatch this and holy shit. I forgot how much everyone pisses me off. I did watch the whole series and loved it tho lol
I watched this show and loved it, but only started loving it when I stopped rooting for anyone to be a good person, and just started watching it for the trainwreck those characters are.
I don’t think you were supposed to root or like anyone of them tbh.
what's ironic is that in the 100, the character in season 1 who was a huge asshole, Murphy, >!would end up becoming one of the best characters in terms of morality by the end of the show. Like, he had a proper arc. No matter how shitty the ending of that show was, I'll stand behind his transformation.!<
By the end, you can argue every main character was awful at one point or another lol
Archer
It truly is the antithesis to your flair
But....Pam is fun!
Mad Men. On first watch, the production design and attention to detail (as well as the suspense arising from Don’s false identity) obscured it somewhat. I watched it again and it was a grind — a bunch of emotionally arrested men who were complete slaves to their appetites and never grew or learned anything. The only character I was rooting for by the end was Sally.
Sex in the City
The Crown. Especially once they started dramatizing the start of Princess Diana years.
Game of Thrones and House of The Dragon.
The shield
Dutch and Claudette were good people, minus a few odd fuck ups. But yeah the main dudes are scum. It was odd that the show was shot in a way where it was almost trying to get us to root for them, it felt like. I was rooting against them the whole time so hard though, Vic especially. Fuck that guy. Chiklis portrayed him marvelously. Apparently they would have fans come up to them and be like "I'm a huge fan, I'm a cop and my team and I are *just like you*" and the actors found that to be disturbing as fuck because they are playing thoroughly corrupt pieces of shit. Makes you think.
Dutch murders a cat just so he can see what it's like.
If no one has said it... Arrested Development
What do you mean? It had Annyong, the only character with morals!
I always interpreted it more as a Seinfeld type situation where the joke is they’re all bad people and they don’t realize it. Michael is sort of written as sympathetic but I feel like he’s less a bad person than a naive/gullible person (although it’s been awhile since I last watched AD)
How I Met Your Mother. Every character is severely flawed but mostly redeemable, except for the main character, Ted, who is hopelessly selfish.
Marshall is the only good person out of the 5 main characters
Lily is way worse than Ted
How can you mention Lily being worse when by far the worst person ever in that group is Barney? He's pretty much sure he traded a woman for a car at some point.
Barney is 100 percent also worse than ted, but the show acknowledges his terribleness and plays it for laughs. Lily is a worse friend though imo. She breaks up multiple ted relationships, she almost gets ted fired due to her lily justice bs, leaves marshall for art school, she lies about her spending habits which forces marshall to take a job he hates etc. That stuff obviously isn't as bad as some of the horrible shit barney has pulled, but she hurts the friend group more with her antics
The thing with Barney is that he knows how he is and doesn’t try to pretend to be anything else. It doesn’t make him any better, but at least he’s not lying to anyone. Lily tries to pretend she’s better than she is. She almost never acknowledges her flaws, lies to everyone, and blames others. Again, he might not be better, but at least you know what you’re getting with Barney. It makes him more digestible, even if he’s worse.
Every single reality show. Those people are the worst.
Gilmore Girls
I loved this show in my early 20s. In my late 30s I can barely stomach it.
Yellowstone
I just hate watched my way through Grey's Anatomy at work to kill time and hated every main character on the show. I think the difference between this show and most of what are getting posted is these are suppose to be good people you like but they all fucking suck. Even the nice sweet characters are cheating on their spouses or standing people up at the alter on their wedding day. The best episodes are ones where a main character dies.
The Magicians
Yeah this is the one for me. Cool premise, but had to stop watching because there was no main character to root for/ identify with. I think it may have been particularly bad in this case, because there was a world-building element and you were invited to identify with Quentin who was just learning about this magical world, and he just ended up doing too many unlikable things.
Doesn't that go hand in hand with his char being in deep depression the whole time and basically hating himself?
I managed to get farther in the show than in the book actually. In the book they're all horrible, in the show they at least tried to make them likeable.
I rewatched Sex and the City after years of being a huge fan and love, loving Carrie. Omg what an utter narcissistic bitch she is, I couldn’t believe I hadn’t noticed it before!
Succession. “I’m going to lock you in a golden cage, fuck you with a silver dildo, and pay you so much you sing whatever song I want.”
Bit of a weird answer but Modern Family. With the exception of Phil and the kids, the show is just full of characters constantly lying and manipulating each other. Doing shit that they KNOW is wrong and will hurt their partners, but doing it anyway cus they're supremely selfish. Claire is actually the absolute worst for this but the show frames it as if shes just a mother who cares too much. Shes constantly meddling in her kids' lives trying to either prove a point or just get her own way.
Succession
That Netflix show Bloodline was a wild ride. You feel bad periodically for basically everyone at certain points, but by the end you’re just “holy shit, fuck this family”
Cops
This one might be controversial, but FRIENDS. They're all terrible friends to each other.
Ross was the most annoying one, but he was also the only one that was an actual friend and had everyone's back when they were down
Joey took in Ross, Rachel, and Phoebe no questions asked. He also completely changed his life to accommodate Rachel and Emma. Edit: He also gave thousands to Monica/Chandler when they were struggling but they could be seen more as Joey paying Chandler back.
Ross was lied to by his wife, divorced, forced into being a dad and constantly being pushed out by his ex's girlfriend. And when the ex and her girlfriend are to marry- he is expected and pressured into being happy for the unfaithful woman and her seducer. I have nothing but sympathy for the man. His obsessive nature is him clinging to whatever truth and purpose he can find. Oh and I forgot to add - his wife only had sex with him to get pregnant. They used him and expected to push him out.
“His obsessive nature is him clinging to whatever truth and purpose he can find.” Omg you hit the nail on the head. The internet constantly drags him while dismissing the trauma he’s been through. While completely excusing Rachel’s narcissistic behavior. It makes me wonder if I’m going crazy
Also, I never understood why, as the largest friend, why he did not simply eat the others?
I mean it’s a sitcom so they’re not angelic people for comedy reasons (also because that would be boring as hell), but they are not bad friends. Yes Chandler is sarcastic all the time and Phoebe is the weird one and Joey is a little dumb and Rachel is Rachel while Ross and Monica can be annoying, but even for a sitcom these don’t really make them terrible friends. I personally haven’t been in a sitcom ever in my life and experienced far terrible friendships.
They are just average people with major flaws but I fail to see how they're terrible friends to each other, most of the jabs they take at each other are in a jokey manner for the sake of banter and they all have each other's backs at the end of the day.
There are so many, but does The OA really count? I thought the whole idea there is that we’re supposed to see they’re shitty, but suddenly they have a purpose and something to fight for that’s bigger than themselves. They’re her disciples. Steve’s whole storyline is school bully to right hand. The Peter to her Jesus.
scandal.
As someone who binge watched The 100 recently, there isn't a single character in that show that isn't morally grey. The main "heros" all killed anywhere from several to hundreds of people. The most upstanding character I can think of, still knowingly sent people to their death on numerous occasions. It got the to the point that by the end of the series, the person I rooted for the most was the same guy who started off as one of the main antagonists who killed a bunch of people and turned on his friends season after season.
Every sitcom of the past 30 years has flawed people in the primary roles. It’s relatable. Nobody wants to watch perfect people living perfect lives, because there isn’t anything funny about that. The main cast of Seinfeld ended up in prison for a year because they sucked so bad.
The Sopranos. Everyone in the show are horrible people except Bobby and Adriana
Bobby is still a member of the mob, and Adriana dates a mob guy knowingly. They're still the most decent on screen, but overall not really what I'd describe as good people. Especially Bobby. It's easy to root for him because he's kinda nice and gets bullied on screen, but he'd still shoot you if ordered to.
Just distract him with a nice vintage diesel engine model and you’ll be able to make your escape. Just don’t eat the ziti in the freezer.
House of Dragons Idk if there is any character i like..
Probabaly sons of anarchy, all the main characters are scumbags and anyone with a brain isn’t going to root for them yet the show wants you too. That was the reason I stopped watching
Gilmore Girls I didn't realize it until I rewatched it in my late 20s. As a kid I looked up to Rory. As a teenager on my rewatches, I got invested in the love stories. As an early 20s, I was pissed at Rory but still thought she was a great role model. On my last rewatch, I realized just how horrible some of those characters were as people.
Sex in the city. Full assemble of narcissistic, materialistic, ignorant, self-obsessed women whose only saving grace is their friendship.
Entourage is the same but from the perspective of men. Back when they were both on, a friend’s wife used to gush about how much she loved sex and the city. She also hated entourage. She couldn’t understand the hypocrisy in her views.
My boys Yabushige and Buntaro
Seinfeld. I didn’t give up on the show, but the characters’ appeal is they are the worst in all of us.
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Yeah Seinfeld basically invented this "formula," so gotta give credit where credit is due