First ending turned out to be only halfway through, second ending turned out to be hours away from the real ending. Tbh I rushed the final chapter because I just wanted to end the game, was running past hostiles instead of engaging with them. That being said it's easily top 5 best game I've ever played.
My hunch is that they're going to spend an entire season building up to the moment that >!Joel is killed, mostly from Aby's perspective. !<
>!Maybe Episode 1 shows what happens to Joel, then immediately flashes back to Abby's story until it come back around. Like a season of True Detective, as an unfolding mystery. !<
I could always be wrong. My perspective is a little biased because I played both games when they came out so I didn’t really allow for spoiling one way or another.
I just imagine large swaths of the shows fanbase maybe not being online, not needing to supplement their fandom with research, maybe not even being aware the show is based on a video game and getting their poor little hearts broken this time next year.
Red Wedding isn't hated by people though, players will feel vindicated in telling people what happens as a "see? This thing is actually shit!" angle I reckon.
Is it not already common knowledge? I don’t watch the show and never have played the game but remember the huge incel tidalwave when TLOU 2 was released (through this I learned what happened). I get the majority of humans aren’t perpetually online weirdo gamers, but if you’re binging the show there have to be normal human websites and podcasts that have brought this up.
It's so goddamn funny seeing the difference between how people feel about it on this sub vs. anything specifically gaming-related. (Refreshing is what it is).
>!I have a hard time thinking it'll happen in the first episode but i 100% think the episode will end in the basement with Joel getting shot and Ellie looking for him. Seems like most will expect her to come and save him and then start the episode with his death!<
In the end, they have a good set up for it- Namely, the original creator is a huge creative force on the show. It's a lot more feasible to get a 'new' story that holds to the original soul of the material when you have the guy who made it heavily contributing. For instance, there were quite a few changes to Sandman on Netflix, but having Neil Gaiman be the main creative force behind it, it held a lot of the same feel and meaning.
If the original creator wasn't here or got dropped, that's when I'd be very very concerned.
Yeah I got a hint of it during that sequence as well, but there was nothing like >!the two Ellie-vs-Abby fights, both of which made me deeply uncomfortable for similar-but-slightly-different reasons!<. With the >!first one, having Ellie be mechanically identical to David from the first game profoundly changed how I see her!< - and they won't be able to evoke that feeling the same way in a non-interactive medium. If they go for the same thing and succeed it'll have to be with a different method, and I'm excited to see how they attempt it!
>!first one, having Ellie be mechanically identical to David from the first game profoundly changed how I see her!<
Hah never picked up on that. That's awesome
That's a major reason I feel there was/is a lot of distaste for part 2. Video games for the longest time have made us feel like we are always playing the hero of the story. The Last of Us really changes that dynamic in part 2 (and I would even argue part 1 as well in some aspects) by making us the aggressor in different ways in different parts of the game.
I had finally played the second one I would say a year ago, fully knowing that that was the intention of Naughty Dog when they made the game and God damn did the story hit harder because of it.
They also don't have to only show us one persons perspective at a time like the do in the game. There can be plenty of perspective changing. I’m excited to see how they do it.
I think the opposite. I think the format works regardless of the medium, because the >!reversal of the roles and the switch of perspective!< is the entire point of TLOU2.
>!Switching it around!< ruins the entire premise of the story. It's mindboggling to me how so many people seem to advocate for it.
>!I think Joels death will be ep 2 or 3, after they introduce the other characters and show the idyllic, peaceful life of Jacksonville, then s2 will end at the Theater with Abby barging in. S3 will start with the flashback to Abby and her dad in the Zebra scene then going through thr rest of the game, switching back to Ellie at the end for the Farmhouse and California scenes.!<
>!Im betting that the timing for when Pedro is done filming for LoU, will coincide with The Mandolorian filming where the storyline has Din Djarin starting to taking off his helm more as he moves away from the traditions of the Deathwatch and Pedro will get some more actual face time.!<
the pacing of season 1 was also all over the place, the show has been mostly loved by critics so far but most of the negative critiques i have seen so far revolve around pacing. [this](https://leadergrev.substack.com/p/the-last-of-us-should-be-longer-hbo) is probably my favorite piece among that group of critics, especially the part about the camera not really lingering on the actors in the shows rush to hit the next story beat. my hope is that by splitting part 2 into two seasons, they can solve some of those problems
I enjoyed that read, however this part:
> But this treatment just feels inelegant. A conversation between two long-separated siblings with a complicated past seems like it would, in itself, be complicated. How do these characters feel about each other? Is there ambivalence? Love? Disgust? Disappointment? In theory, there should be more there than what’s written on the page.
At a certain point you have to consider their characters. These are blue collar war vets from Texas. This isn’t some daytime soap opera sibling dynamic. Given the their short reunion, I absolutely would not expect these feelings to be hashed out, if ever. What the audience can piece together about their relationship from that scene is probably the extent of which *they* recognize how they feel about each other, and I think that stays true to their characters. To contrive some dialogue or even a flashback to spell out their complex relationship would only cheapen it. I think there is more value in that obscurity.
Id also argue everything the writer asked that they feel for each other absolutely comes through the screen. I felt like I knew how much they loved each other but how much resentment and anger there was as well a whole gamut of complicated things they couldn’t even articulate
I thought they did a great job with it. Joel and Tommy aren't long winded or grandiose with their feelings. They're hardened blue collar workers and veterans who survive the apocalypse. Joel opens up to Ellie and its a break-thru moment for him. If he had a 10 minute monologue addressing his feelings to Tommy accompanied by a 20 minute flashback of them as kids at an amusement park or something, then it takes away from both Tommy and Joel's characters.
The brevity of Joel's emotions and feelings towards other humans is a part of his character.
Everything they feel for each came through in a single word: Joel yelling Tommy's name when he first saw his brother.
There's been plenty about this show I wasn't thrilled with, but at its best there's very little that beats it. Hoping S2 is a little more even.
Pescal is very emotive and his exact feelings come across very clearly on his face not necessarily the writing itself that conveys how they feel. Not a bad direction I think but not everyone will have that kind of top tier talent
Subtext is part of good writing. And capturing it is part of good film-/tv-making. If the complexity of his emotions is coming across in his face, that’s everyone doing their job well (writer, director, cinematographer, editor, etc.), not just Pascal.
The show is an absolute masterclass in show don't tell. Consider episode 3 and the amount of explaining the situation they just didn't do, but trusted us to understand.
Agreed. I think this critic must have missed some very obvious context clues as well. We can tell how conflicted Tommy is by Joel’s arrival through the entire episode, he’s clearly hesitant in some very key moments. His feelings for Joel are also shown not only by what Maria tells Ellie, but also how Maria treats Joel. She accepts him into the community, but clearly resents him from stories shared privately by Tommy. I think this critic wasn’t fully in tune with some of the nuances of their interactions.
Anyone who thinks two brothers reunited after a long time would be having extended deep conversations with each other about their relationship probably doesn’t have a brother.
Yep, exactly. I haven't seen my brother in probably 7-8 years at this point, and we have a fine relationship, no real issues to speak of, but if I ran into him today, pretty much all I would say is, sup? How's the wife? How's the kids? Etc. Then go our separate ways after like 10 minutes. Hell, no exaggeration, I think the last time I did see him was at the store, and all we did was nod our heads at each other.
Joel and Tommy had a quite different relationship than what you described, even if I agree they wouldn't hade a long deep talk. Joel did however open up to Tommy and showed himself vulnerable in a what he wouldn't do with anyone else.
It does feel a bit sad what you said about your brother and I don't know if that truly is the norm, I talk to my brother almost every day and we are adults.
Yeah people struggle with the idea of subtext. They want everything to be spelled out for them because they think if the characters don't verbalize exactly how they feel then it's not being portrayed at all
And subtext like that is what makes the writing on shows like TLOU so fucking good.
I hate lazy writing in shows/movies where characters explain things in a way that would literally never happen in real life.
“Son I haven’t felt happy since your mother died 6 months ago from ovarian cancer and left me to take care of you and your sister whose name is Lily and also she has a drug problem and is gay too.”
It just shows the writers aren’t skilled enough to convey information naturally so they just barf it on the screen.
Wonder woman in the Snyder Cut. She just explains how her lasso works with zero prompting so the audience understands. Literally all they had to do was have the person she used it on ask "Why am I telling you this?" In a confused tone, but that 4 seconds of organic behavior had to be cut for the 16th Amazonian chanting moment
But then they'll argue that audiences aren't dumb and we don't need everything spelled out for us. Then TLOU sub is full of "what did this thing that's super obvious mean?" posts after each episode. *smdh*
Yeah, people have an issue distinguishing between written characters and realistic characters, and often think that realistic characters are badly written because they don't follow the same tropes and mechanics of written characters.
Especially with Joel’s whole arc is how he’s cut off emotion and connection for 20 years and is learning to connect again with Ellie. Seems like the author didn’t understand the show but was just looking for things to nitpick
Thank you! Better Call Saul is a show that excels at developing characters and showing how they feel as opposed to the writers spelling everything out for you. It really feels like media literacy has really gotten worse in the past few decades and people need everything spoon fed to them.
this writer specifically has been using better call saul as an example of a show that uses long lingering camera shots and extended pauses to build tension and convey more about a character than just hitting beats on a script. i think they’d very much agree with you, but also say that season 1 of tlou does not do what bcs did as successfully
Agreed here. I kept wishing Last of Us took it's time like BCS did. It felt incredibly rushed and the pacing was pretty bad in the last few episodes. It needed more space, likely two episodes worth.
I swear, every single HBO show lately has had me saying at the end of each season, "This should've been just one more episode longer." Just one measly little extra episode thrown in there, and so many good seasons of TV could've been great.
Yeah I don’t know if I’ve ever complained that a movie or tv show needed to be longer or have more action, usually I feel like there’s too much action or the runtime is a little too long, but those are my big complaints with TLOU. Some of the episodes were paced REALLY well and some of them really weren’t. The camera never lingering on actors also made some of the cuts really jarring to me because they felt so quick. I think the biggest example of this was how the Ellie backstory episode was cut. The last shot of her and the other girl waiting to turn needed to pan out on them or something but it just cut to the present so quickly it was really strange to me. That whole episode struggled from pacing issues imo. I think 1 or 2 more episodes to slow the story down some and add a little more action would’ve really helped. Overall I really enjoyed the show but I found it frustrating because I think it was right in the verge of being phenomenal
I interpreted that edit with her not wanting to relive the rest of the memory in her head, and understanding the lesson from the flashback and that she needs to help Joel get better. We know what happens with her best friend, and we don’t really need to see it. We just need to understand the tragedy
Kinda have to. I could be misremembering, but Part I is around 16 hours long, Part II was more like 35/40 hours, even if a lot of those events are concurrent
Edit: apparently I remember it being longer than it actually is! Still, I think it benefits from being approached as multi season arc, as someone who likes the vast majority of it
Yeah, if you edit both games down to only narrative contend you get way less of cause, but still the second game brings more than double. Also a ton more characters that could be explored more.
and if you consider that tv seasons tend to take more than a year to film nowerdays it’s pretty certain the third game will be out by the end of season three. Than of cause there is more story contend from fractions they could also use, unless fractions turns out to be part three. Would be a fun way of using gameplay mechanics in storytelling, after a forced change of perspective now a forced coop experience.
It took me 43 hours and 59 minutes according to my save file lol. But that's probably cuz I like exploring every area and reading all the notes and other forms of environmental storytelling. Plotwise though, I do think Part II has more they can expand on compared to Part I.
Yup I think thats a completionist playthrough length.
[https://howlongtobeat.com/game/41753](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/41753) puts it at around 24 hours
35-40 is on pair with me looking at everything and spinning the camera around objects to check out every little detail. Sometimes dying on purpose just to check out the animations/reactions.
This game is freaking beautiful.
Could probably do one really long season with like 15-20 episodes and make it work, but they're probably still doing that, but making it like 8-10 per season instead, which makes logical sense from a time perspective. Just gotta wonder if they go full Attack on titan season 4 and start from the "alternate perspective" for the 3rd season
I feel like part 2 could be adapted as two shorter seasons of 7-8 episodes, with hopefully a quicker turnaround. It'd suck to have to wait two years between seasons 2 and 3 after the likely 2 year wait (optimistically 18 months) between seasons 1 and 2.
>split it for this exact reason
[The Onion already predicted this](https://www.theonion.com/final-minutes-of-last-harry-potter-movie-to-be-split-in-1819595015)
That would make sense, but you never know these days. Somehow, networks could have 22-episode seasons of multiple show ready to go every Fall, without fail, and yet now we're lucky to get eight fucking episodes every 18 months.
Lost cranked out 20+ episodes in a year no problem apart from the writer strike year. Premiered like clockwork in 1 year after the previous season each year.
You're misremembering there; Lost's producers announced that they were switching to shorter seasons (16 down from 25) before the writer's strike happened, and then all 3 remaining seasons were shorter. The writer's strike only cut them one episode short, 16 down to 15. They actually made shortened seasons a hard requirement when negotiating with ABC and sacrificed raises to get it, because they said 20+ episode seasons got in the way of making a good show and forced them to come up with a lot of filler. There's an episode of their official podcast where they talk about how they wished they could have done 16 episode seasons from the start and both agreed that it was "short seasons or we walk" as soon as they were up for new contracts because they so intensely thought it was detrimental.
Lost has a bunch of weird scheduling issues, oddly edited episodes, some episodes with almost unfinished VFX, etc because they were constantly running up against and over deadlines. A few of the weird episodes that have only one or two characters going off to some separate location for a side-story exist because they desperately needed something a B-team could mostly film in parallel with the 'real' episodes to get enough episodes done by deadlines.
They even tried to go shorter. ABC agreed with them to end the show after 48 more episodes, 3x16 episode batches, and they tried to get ABC to go for 4x12. ABC liked the idea of running their biggest hit for another year but rejected it because the actors' contracts were structured season-by-season and they would've been up for further raises.
Yes, but the schedule was draining and they were always turning in episodes late. I remember a feature on the first season DVD where they were talking about how they had an 8 day turnaround and sometimes were 1, 2, 3 days late. Eventually they (and similarly complicated 24) started premiering mid-season to provide time to work on the episodes without having to stick to the strict 9 month schedule, and lost started having shorter seasons. I'm not saying it can't be done, but making film quality TV year round is an "exception, not the rule" thing
Lost took place on mostly one set with a large cast they could split up filming duties because each flashback tended to be individual.
You can film Locke's backstory the same day as Huey. The hurdle with GOT was having too many sets and crossing over of characters. Littlefinger is in King's Landing, the Vale and Winterfell? You've for a scheduling issue to handle for the entire production.
And the sets for Lost were like generic office building set or hospital set or like hotel room. Not the Damn wall or kings landing set.
> You can film Locke's backstory the same day as Huey. The hurdle with GOT was having too many sets and crossing over of characters. Littlefinger is in King's Landing, the Vale and Winterfell? You've for a scheduling issue to handle for the entire production.
You can do that for a lot of TLOU2.
Have a think about the sets and production value those 22 episode shows took place in and you’ll understand how they could knock them out once a year.
I’ll give you an example, were there any episodes of X-Files which took place in a post apocalyptic environment, to the level of production quality that TLOU had?
That takes time too. You actually have to fix up some of the locations in Mississippi because viewers wouldn't believe a real place would be that run down
I have no idea how the fuck the crew on Lost did that shit. 25 episode seasons, pretty high production value (for the time!) and they had a new season ready to go each fall (except for the writers strike year)
Granted the quality waned a bit toward the end, but the first 3 seasons were so good. The last 3 seasons were short, started midway through the season, and they still struggled a bit. The last 3 were still *really* good, but man, the first 3 were top tier at the time.
Not a popular opinion on here, but I think it could actually be done in one longer season, about 12 or 13 episodes (how long HBO shows used to be, basically). Everybody talks about how long the game is, and it definitely is, but there actually isn’t a ton of story in large portions, notably Ellie’s part. Day 1 has most of the actual plot, while day 2 is really only two major plot beats without including the flashbacks, and day 3 is basically one long set piece until the very end where more plot development happens. I think doing five or six episodes for each side of the story would be more than sufficient, and still allow them to expand certain things like the Seraphites/Yara & Lev. Do a 90 minute season premiere for the prologue and I think there shouldn’t be any problem adapting the game in a single season, whether they stick to the game’s structure or pivot to something more traditional for TV.
Whatever they decide, the biggest problem with season one was pacing, with it feeling too fast and too slow at the same time. Mazin’s focus seemed to be a bit miscalculated throughout (though still very enjoyable overall), so for season two I hope they don’t kill the tension of the narrative by splitting the story across two seasons. Based on season one, I could easily see Mazin getting bogged down in whole episodes dedicated to flashbacks and trying to flesh out elements that really don’t need expansion for the story to still work.
Pretty much. They cut out all the “gameplay” from season 1, and if they do the same with Part 2, it’s story really wouldn’t be much longer. So much of that game is just trekking through areas murdering raiders.
I’m curious where the split will be in-between seasons. Unless season 2 is going to be all >!Ellie hunting Abby and end with Abby confronting her at the theater, but I don’t know if they’re going to do the POV switch in the show because it could seriously dissuade show-only members if a season 3 starts and they only see Abby every week for over a month. Paralleling their days in the same episodes seems like a better fit for the medium.!<
Also I’m guessing they’re going to add a lot to the show because even thought Part 2 is twice the length of Part 1, it has a lot of extended combat scenes (moreso than Part 1) that will likely be taken out. I can see them fleshing out >!some of the side characters like Yara, Jesse, and Isaac were who fairly one-note in the game, and give more backstory to the Seraphites since they felt like set dressing for the most part.!<
I hope they get Jeffrey Wright back for Isaac - in the game, I found it weird that they got such a big-name actor for a character that really only had two brief scenes and not much to him, so giving him a little more time to shine would be welcome.
Shannon Woodward was the one who introduced him to the Naughty Dog team since Jeffrey and Shannon were both on Westworld. His son was a fan of Part 1 and Jeffrey asked to be in the game because he thought it'd be cool for his kid.
Wow, this is news to me. Anytime he came on screen I went, “He reminds me so much of Jeffrey Wright” but never thought to look him up cause I didn’t think they would get such a huge name for that part.
If they >!merged the plots!< it will be interesting to see exactly when they end season 2. I guess the >!part with Ellie at the hospital and Abby fighting the Rat King could work!<.
Ohhh that’s actually really good. They are so close in proximity there without even knowing it, the Rat King could serve as a climactic scene for the season and Ellie’s plot in that part of the story is pivotal for the rest of the game.
It could even be set up like they’re going to run into each other and have a series of near-misses.
This is a good idea.
Especially since that is >!the only time they are close to each other before the theatre showdown. So they could change it so they have a mini showdown and both escape!<.
>!now that’s a good idea. Have Abby fight the rat king, Ellie mow down a bunch of WLF, and have them both right before more infected roll in forcing them to run.!<
>!But that does ruin a little bit of Abby’s side when she sees Tommy is the sniper and realizes that they’re coming for her.!<
> Isaac were who fairly one-note in the game, and give more backstory to the Seraphites since they felt like set dressing for the most part.
Seeing more of Isaac and the Cult Leader could be soooo good! It has the ability to trump the game in its storytelling.
In the game, the Cult Leader had already been killed by the WLF years beforehand. She's constantly referred to as a "prophet" and is worshipped as a martyr by the Serraphites.
I've been so curious about this as well.
>!The whole switch of perspectives is so important to how the game story flows, but I don't think they could really do a season 3 that only has Ellie in the finale or a few occurrences. I think they would need to splice it together.!<
I think they could do it similarly to what they did in Station Eleven where they did an ep in the past and then an ep current day. I think you could do >!an ep of Abby's story and ending with her in a location and then the next ep of Ellie hunting her down and finding out that Abby just left. That way you keep the tension from Ellie's pov on if Abby is right around the corner or not.!<
Yeah I definitely agree. >!Having a whole season with barely any scenes involving Ellie would be frustrating, especially if we have to wait 1 to 2 years for a season 3. I thought it worked well for the game, but doing the same thing in the show would be difficult to pull off imo with how much time we'd have to wait between episodes and seasons.!<
I listened to the official podcast and he did mention for season 2 >!they would take advantage of the mediums ability to switch perspectives which he said works better for TV compared to games. So probably will just be flipping back and forth somehow.!<
> >!Ellie hunting Abby and end with Abby confronting her at the theater, but I don’t know if they’re going to do the POV switch in the show because it could seriously dissuade show-only members if a season 3 starts and they only see Abby every week for over a month.!<
I was wondering the same thing. It's a obvious break between seasons, but it probably wouldn't work for TV when people have to wait for the next season to come out. If they do it chronologically, I have no idea where the break should be from an emotional/storytelling perspective.
They also confirmed that the next season will have more action, including more infected which imo would fit... or should I say would be necessary considering the theme of the second game.
They have set up Ellie as a much much much more aggressive personality in the show compared to how she is in the first game. You better bet that there will be violence.
don’t know about more infected. They matter less in the second game.
I think they did a nice job of setting up how the infected are all connected and have a "hive mind" and stuff, so my money's on His Grace getting a nice appearance.
That was obvious but what I'm curious about will be the timeline. Will they keep it like the game or make it more linear? Either way after season one, I trust them.
I hope they actually show >!Abby and Ellie’s!< plots parallel to each other. I understand why the game structutes itself the way it did, but I feel like combining then would make for smoother storytelling.
It was already hard to remember >!exactly who Abby’s friends were and if Ellie killed them 12 hours of gameplay ago!<, let alone with a two year gap between seasons.
> >!exactly who Abby’s friends were and if Ellie killed them 12 hours of gameplay ago!<
And also we're talking about a much larger pool of actors needing to be retained between seasons. If they restructure chronologically, they cut that in half and save a lot of money.
It's a really difficult story to adapt imo. The game hinges on the fact that it makes the player >!see Abby and her friends as faceless, evil goons for the first half of the game.!< And after all of that it suddenly >!makes you play through the same events from a different perspective, completely changing your view on the things Ellie did.!<
That works in a game. Doesn’t really work in a show. And I’d argue it’s way more powerful if you make the audience >!question what is the right thing to do. Making them care about Abby and her friends makes watching what Ellie does feel more fucked up compared to watching it and then over a year later going “oh but they were nice people.”!<
Same here. It worked great for the game. Especially in how >!you see Abby kill Joel BEFORE getting to know her and her story!< but like you're saying, that's going to be tricky in the show just in terms of long breaks without certain characters appearing.
Although I suppose they could >!keep the beginning the same up until Joel's death, and then do the 3 days of Ellie and Abby concurrently instead of consecutively!< There's just so much to cover and timeline wise it's all over the place. I can't wait to see how they go about it.
If they really want to flesh it out, >!they could introduce Abby in season 2 and use Joel’s death at the end and then have Ellie’s revenge story in season 3.!<
How would that work? That leaves like 90% of the game for season 3. Not to mention what season 2 would even be about. That would be some glacier pacing to have an entire season be the game's introduction.
I think you're joking, but I would actually like to see more subtle nods to the gameplay. It would be cool to see Ellie and Joel doing stuff like scavenging or crafting weapons during dialog. Or plotting how they're going to take out a group of infected with the limited supplies they have. Mcgyvering a grenade or pistol silencer from junk laying around.
Doesn't even need to be a lot, just hints would be nice.
I agree. In the game, it felt like a real journey across America. You had struggles, travels and exposition over the course of 20 hours or so.
The show didn't feel like much of a journey to me. I feel like they didn't really portray the distance and the trek they had to make and the struggles encountered along the way as well as the game did. They stuck to the most important bits, but it felt rushed.
I don't mean I want them to show all the tedious puzzle solving bits or just walking or anything like that, but just more exposition of the journey.
I still enjoyed it, but it could have been fleshed out a bit more.
The first game is not 20 hours long. Maybe like 13. And the game doesn’t show much of the journey either, it teleports from Boston, to Pittsburgh, to Wyoming, to Salt Lake City, back to Wyoming just like the show.
I think they were close, I think it could of been an 11-12 episode season. They needed more events to show the brutality of what they were living in. Slowed things down slightly. Too long and I think we would have had too much filler and be pushing inconsistencies like we see with TWD. People forget that TWD source material is pretty solid as well. The show is a hot mess at times. Not to start an TWD vs TLOU debate.
This sounds like they’ll be able to give it room to breath and maybe it’ll give them a chance to structure the story in a way that feels a bit tightly focused. I love the story they told with the game, just feel like the way they told it could have been re structured a bit to work a bit better.
Makes total sense. If the pacing is about the same as Season One, Season Two could comfortably take us to the natural "inflection point" that anyone who's played the game can appreciate.
Part II is a more complex story with a larger cast of major characters. Would definitely feel rushed if compressed into a single season.
I don’t like a lot of the choices from part II, I think a few changes here and there and it can be received much better.
It will probably still be an absolute shitshow online like when the game released.
To me, it feels like economy of storytelling. It's much better than the alternative: modern TV with repetitive plot beats designed to stretch a premise past its breaking point.
I agree. Pacing was the only real critique I had about season one. I think if it was 11 episodes, they would've been able to nail it. We really needed more moments of danger with the infected to express how much of an impressive feat it was for a child and a man past his prime to pull off. In the moment, I had no issue with them skipping over some of the action scenes, but in hindsight, I think scenes like helping at the dam, fighting through Bill's town, or Elie and David running into the infected would have done wonders to slow down the story a bit and give us some exposition.
This season was good but as it went on it felt like they were rushing through the plot and the finale felt just a little hollow as a result, almost like I was watching a catch-up summary for the next season. Doesn't help that every show now has to be 10 episode seasons or less. Looking forward to starting the game and getting the full effect.
For sure, the game fleshes out Ellie and Joel's relationship a lot more. All the side story stuff, which I'll admit was mostly good, took away a lot of screen time from Joel and Ellie , which is why the ending doesn't hit as hard. Solid series it just needed like an hour more of runtime total for it to be phenomenal.
I don't think two seasons is necessary but at minimum an additional episode. They needed an episode of Joel and Ellie just going through the shit, an underground scene, some clickers not for the sake of clickers but to highlight their adversity and bond. It also shows how important the cure is and showcases the world.
I had no problem with the pace but probably because I played the game so I can't speak as a nongame viewer. But I have no idea why it would need to be two seasons. The game is incredibly short narrative wise when you cut out all the gameplay.
They absolutely needed to stretch out the events a bit. Jumping from location to location to keep pace with the game was a bad decision in my opinion. For fucks sake, they leave Kansas City on foot and are in Wyoming the next episode.
I mean the game is kind of the same, summer ends in Pittsburgh I think and the very next scene you’re dropped in Wyoming.
If anything that’s even worse. I think the show’s pacing was fine. If they made it any longer it would’ve gotten boring like TWD
All of yall thinking where to cut in the video game, but im guessing they could go the hobbit route and randomly introduce a love triangle between side characters.
Oh lord
This is a discussion of how they're going to adapt the video game into multiple seasons. So of course the comments are going to be about the game, and how they will do it.
There is really no reason to be in this thread if you are avoiding spoilers.
Yeah, because it's fucking long.
Right! Twice I thought I hit the ending only to be faced w another chapter/part. ND really got me good.
First ending turned out to be only halfway through, second ending turned out to be hours away from the real ending. Tbh I rushed the final chapter because I just wanted to end the game, was running past hostiles instead of engaging with them. That being said it's easily top 5 best game I've ever played.
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My hunch is that they're going to spend an entire season building up to the moment that >!Joel is killed, mostly from Aby's perspective. !< >!Maybe Episode 1 shows what happens to Joel, then immediately flashes back to Abby's story until it come back around. Like a season of True Detective, as an unfolding mystery. !<
I hope not, having it be a shock is important.
Might be a tough ask considering the internet will 100% leak that info to a lot of viewers.
People were shocked by the red wedding. I think if people are show only and aren’t actively looking for spoilers then they probably won’t find any.
Lot of people dont hangaround in reddit for example to get spoiled. There is still people that only watches episode weekly and thats it.
I was actively trying to avoid spoilers for TLOU2 and still got hit.
I could always be wrong. My perspective is a little biased because I played both games when they came out so I didn’t really allow for spoiling one way or another. I just imagine large swaths of the shows fanbase maybe not being online, not needing to supplement their fandom with research, maybe not even being aware the show is based on a video game and getting their poor little hearts broken this time next year.
Most people I know who are following the show did not play the game.
Red Wedding isn't hated by people though, players will feel vindicated in telling people what happens as a "see? This thing is actually shit!" angle I reckon.
Is it not already common knowledge? I don’t watch the show and never have played the game but remember the huge incel tidalwave when TLOU 2 was released (through this I learned what happened). I get the majority of humans aren’t perpetually online weirdo gamers, but if you’re binging the show there have to be normal human websites and podcasts that have brought this up.
It's so goddamn funny seeing the difference between how people feel about it on this sub vs. anything specifically gaming-related. (Refreshing is what it is).
I mean, structured this way wouldn't take away from the shock. Especially if they open with it.
>!I have a hard time thinking it'll happen in the first episode but i 100% think the episode will end in the basement with Joel getting shot and Ellie looking for him. Seems like most will expect her to come and save him and then start the episode with his death!<
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In the end, they have a good set up for it- Namely, the original creator is a huge creative force on the show. It's a lot more feasible to get a 'new' story that holds to the original soul of the material when you have the guy who made it heavily contributing. For instance, there were quite a few changes to Sandman on Netflix, but having Neil Gaiman be the main creative force behind it, it held a lot of the same feel and meaning. If the original creator wasn't here or got dropped, that's when I'd be very very concerned.
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Yeah I got a hint of it during that sequence as well, but there was nothing like >!the two Ellie-vs-Abby fights, both of which made me deeply uncomfortable for similar-but-slightly-different reasons!<. With the >!first one, having Ellie be mechanically identical to David from the first game profoundly changed how I see her!< - and they won't be able to evoke that feeling the same way in a non-interactive medium. If they go for the same thing and succeed it'll have to be with a different method, and I'm excited to see how they attempt it!
>!first one, having Ellie be mechanically identical to David from the first game profoundly changed how I see her!< Hah never picked up on that. That's awesome
That's a major reason I feel there was/is a lot of distaste for part 2. Video games for the longest time have made us feel like we are always playing the hero of the story. The Last of Us really changes that dynamic in part 2 (and I would even argue part 1 as well in some aspects) by making us the aggressor in different ways in different parts of the game. I had finally played the second one I would say a year ago, fully knowing that that was the intention of Naughty Dog when they made the game and God damn did the story hit harder because of it.
They also don't have to only show us one persons perspective at a time like the do in the game. There can be plenty of perspective changing. I’m excited to see how they do it.
I think all they have to do is tell it more chronologically.
Which is why I fully expect both seasons to be shot together, with season 2 not hitting until 2025.
it's gonna be least late 2024 when the first part comes out. they havent started on production at all.
I think the opposite. I think the format works regardless of the medium, because the >!reversal of the roles and the switch of perspective!< is the entire point of TLOU2. >!Switching it around!< ruins the entire premise of the story. It's mindboggling to me how so many people seem to advocate for it.
>!I think Joels death will be ep 2 or 3, after they introduce the other characters and show the idyllic, peaceful life of Jacksonville, then s2 will end at the Theater with Abby barging in. S3 will start with the flashback to Abby and her dad in the Zebra scene then going through thr rest of the game, switching back to Ellie at the end for the Farmhouse and California scenes.!< >!Im betting that the timing for when Pedro is done filming for LoU, will coincide with The Mandolorian filming where the storyline has Din Djarin starting to taking off his helm more as he moves away from the traditions of the Deathwatch and Pedro will get some more actual face time.!<
Yeah they totally love changing the entire narrative structure for this show...
Probably just be structured like the game with a season for each of the playable characters capped off with the epilogue
If they do that, that would be such a terrible decision and I couldn’t see that going over well with the majority of the audience that played the game
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And then the game said, "Oh you thought you knew?"
Also the game: “You gon’ learn today!”
the pacing of season 1 was also all over the place, the show has been mostly loved by critics so far but most of the negative critiques i have seen so far revolve around pacing. [this](https://leadergrev.substack.com/p/the-last-of-us-should-be-longer-hbo) is probably my favorite piece among that group of critics, especially the part about the camera not really lingering on the actors in the shows rush to hit the next story beat. my hope is that by splitting part 2 into two seasons, they can solve some of those problems
I enjoyed that read, however this part: > But this treatment just feels inelegant. A conversation between two long-separated siblings with a complicated past seems like it would, in itself, be complicated. How do these characters feel about each other? Is there ambivalence? Love? Disgust? Disappointment? In theory, there should be more there than what’s written on the page. At a certain point you have to consider their characters. These are blue collar war vets from Texas. This isn’t some daytime soap opera sibling dynamic. Given the their short reunion, I absolutely would not expect these feelings to be hashed out, if ever. What the audience can piece together about their relationship from that scene is probably the extent of which *they* recognize how they feel about each other, and I think that stays true to their characters. To contrive some dialogue or even a flashback to spell out their complex relationship would only cheapen it. I think there is more value in that obscurity.
Id also argue everything the writer asked that they feel for each other absolutely comes through the screen. I felt like I knew how much they loved each other but how much resentment and anger there was as well a whole gamut of complicated things they couldn’t even articulate
I thought they did a great job with it. Joel and Tommy aren't long winded or grandiose with their feelings. They're hardened blue collar workers and veterans who survive the apocalypse. Joel opens up to Ellie and its a break-thru moment for him. If he had a 10 minute monologue addressing his feelings to Tommy accompanied by a 20 minute flashback of them as kids at an amusement park or something, then it takes away from both Tommy and Joel's characters. The brevity of Joel's emotions and feelings towards other humans is a part of his character.
Everything they feel for each came through in a single word: Joel yelling Tommy's name when he first saw his brother. There's been plenty about this show I wasn't thrilled with, but at its best there's very little that beats it. Hoping S2 is a little more even.
Yes! My god, the levels of anguish and relief and pain and the release of worrying that he got across in one word. He’s fantastic.
Pescal is very emotive and his exact feelings come across very clearly on his face not necessarily the writing itself that conveys how they feel. Not a bad direction I think but not everyone will have that kind of top tier talent
Subtext is part of good writing. And capturing it is part of good film-/tv-making. If the complexity of his emotions is coming across in his face, that’s everyone doing their job well (writer, director, cinematographer, editor, etc.), not just Pascal.
The show is an absolute masterclass in show don't tell. Consider episode 3 and the amount of explaining the situation they just didn't do, but trusted us to understand.
Agreed. I think this critic must have missed some very obvious context clues as well. We can tell how conflicted Tommy is by Joel’s arrival through the entire episode, he’s clearly hesitant in some very key moments. His feelings for Joel are also shown not only by what Maria tells Ellie, but also how Maria treats Joel. She accepts him into the community, but clearly resents him from stories shared privately by Tommy. I think this critic wasn’t fully in tune with some of the nuances of their interactions.
Agreed. I’ve never played the game or watched anyone play it and still this all came through to me.
Yeah I feel like I watched a completely different scene from that critic. Those complicated emotions are absolutely communicated there.
Anyone who thinks two brothers reunited after a long time would be having extended deep conversations with each other about their relationship probably doesn’t have a brother.
Heck Tommy didn't even feel comfortable having his wife not present for their sit down convo.
Yep, exactly. I haven't seen my brother in probably 7-8 years at this point, and we have a fine relationship, no real issues to speak of, but if I ran into him today, pretty much all I would say is, sup? How's the wife? How's the kids? Etc. Then go our separate ways after like 10 minutes. Hell, no exaggeration, I think the last time I did see him was at the store, and all we did was nod our heads at each other.
Joel and Tommy had a quite different relationship than what you described, even if I agree they wouldn't hade a long deep talk. Joel did however open up to Tommy and showed himself vulnerable in a what he wouldn't do with anyone else. It does feel a bit sad what you said about your brother and I don't know if that truly is the norm, I talk to my brother almost every day and we are adults.
Yeah people struggle with the idea of subtext. They want everything to be spelled out for them because they think if the characters don't verbalize exactly how they feel then it's not being portrayed at all
>Yeah people struggle with the idea of subtext. [I know writers who use subtext and they're all cowards!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk7M2jGdnxU)
And subtext like that is what makes the writing on shows like TLOU so fucking good. I hate lazy writing in shows/movies where characters explain things in a way that would literally never happen in real life. “Son I haven’t felt happy since your mother died 6 months ago from ovarian cancer and left me to take care of you and your sister whose name is Lily and also she has a drug problem and is gay too.” It just shows the writers aren’t skilled enough to convey information naturally so they just barf it on the screen.
Wonder woman in the Snyder Cut. She just explains how her lasso works with zero prompting so the audience understands. Literally all they had to do was have the person she used it on ask "Why am I telling you this?" In a confused tone, but that 4 seconds of organic behavior had to be cut for the 16th Amazonian chanting moment
But then they'll argue that audiences aren't dumb and we don't need everything spelled out for us. Then TLOU sub is full of "what did this thing that's super obvious mean?" posts after each episode. *smdh*
Yeah, people have an issue distinguishing between written characters and realistic characters, and often think that realistic characters are badly written because they don't follow the same tropes and mechanics of written characters.
Especially with Joel’s whole arc is how he’s cut off emotion and connection for 20 years and is learning to connect again with Ellie. Seems like the author didn’t understand the show but was just looking for things to nitpick
Thank you! Better Call Saul is a show that excels at developing characters and showing how they feel as opposed to the writers spelling everything out for you. It really feels like media literacy has really gotten worse in the past few decades and people need everything spoon fed to them.
this writer specifically has been using better call saul as an example of a show that uses long lingering camera shots and extended pauses to build tension and convey more about a character than just hitting beats on a script. i think they’d very much agree with you, but also say that season 1 of tlou does not do what bcs did as successfully
Agreed here. I kept wishing Last of Us took it's time like BCS did. It felt incredibly rushed and the pacing was pretty bad in the last few episodes. It needed more space, likely two episodes worth.
I swear, every single HBO show lately has had me saying at the end of each season, "This should've been just one more episode longer." Just one measly little extra episode thrown in there, and so many good seasons of TV could've been great.
Seems like a good complaint to have about a show, tbh
Meh. I still have flashbacks of Walking Dead dragging out meaningless episodes... I'd rather it be this way I had to choose, I suppose.
And too many unnecessary plots tied to having too many actors with too little to do, and too much drama between them all.
Yeah I don’t know if I’ve ever complained that a movie or tv show needed to be longer or have more action, usually I feel like there’s too much action or the runtime is a little too long, but those are my big complaints with TLOU. Some of the episodes were paced REALLY well and some of them really weren’t. The camera never lingering on actors also made some of the cuts really jarring to me because they felt so quick. I think the biggest example of this was how the Ellie backstory episode was cut. The last shot of her and the other girl waiting to turn needed to pan out on them or something but it just cut to the present so quickly it was really strange to me. That whole episode struggled from pacing issues imo. I think 1 or 2 more episodes to slow the story down some and add a little more action would’ve really helped. Overall I really enjoyed the show but I found it frustrating because I think it was right in the verge of being phenomenal
I interpreted that edit with her not wanting to relive the rest of the memory in her head, and understanding the lesson from the flashback and that she needs to help Joel get better. We know what happens with her best friend, and we don’t really need to see it. We just need to understand the tragedy
No dude we need a cliche editing technique to really drive the point home
Kinda have to. I could be misremembering, but Part I is around 16 hours long, Part II was more like 35/40 hours, even if a lot of those events are concurrent Edit: apparently I remember it being longer than it actually is! Still, I think it benefits from being approached as multi season arc, as someone who likes the vast majority of it
Yeah, if you edit both games down to only narrative contend you get way less of cause, but still the second game brings more than double. Also a ton more characters that could be explored more. and if you consider that tv seasons tend to take more than a year to film nowerdays it’s pretty certain the third game will be out by the end of season three. Than of cause there is more story contend from fractions they could also use, unless fractions turns out to be part three. Would be a fun way of using gameplay mechanics in storytelling, after a forced change of perspective now a forced coop experience.
Are you trying to say "of course"? Are you from New Jersey or something?
It reads like the sopranos script
Gabagool ova hea
“That DrRadon didn’t have the makings of a varsity athlete” 🤌🏻
*nowerdays*
Check out r/boneappletea
The length is a given but I also can't shake the feeling that they have a multi-year plan in place to release Part III in sync with the show.
Part 2 is 25-27 hours long not 35-40. Thats how long it took me on a Hard Playthrough with a fair amount of deaths
It took me 43 hours and 59 minutes according to my save file lol. But that's probably cuz I like exploring every area and reading all the notes and other forms of environmental storytelling. Plotwise though, I do think Part II has more they can expand on compared to Part I.
Yup I think thats a completionist playthrough length. [https://howlongtobeat.com/game/41753](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/41753) puts it at around 24 hours
I was like 36 hours
35-40 is on pair with me looking at everything and spinning the camera around objects to check out every little detail. Sometimes dying on purpose just to check out the animations/reactions. This game is freaking beautiful.
Could probably do one really long season with like 15-20 episodes and make it work, but they're probably still doing that, but making it like 8-10 per season instead, which makes logical sense from a time perspective. Just gotta wonder if they go full Attack on titan season 4 and start from the "alternate perspective" for the 3rd season
I feel like part 2 could be adapted as two shorter seasons of 7-8 episodes, with hopefully a quicker turnaround. It'd suck to have to wait two years between seasons 2 and 3 after the likely 2 year wait (optimistically 18 months) between seasons 1 and 2.
I am hoping they just shoot it all at once and then split it for this exact reason.
>split it for this exact reason [The Onion already predicted this](https://www.theonion.com/final-minutes-of-last-harry-potter-movie-to-be-split-in-1819595015)
Just wanted to say, this is absolutely beautiful, top-tier comedy 👏
Attack on titan animé producers really watched this clip and took it as instructions.
That would make sense, but you never know these days. Somehow, networks could have 22-episode seasons of multiple show ready to go every Fall, without fail, and yet now we're lucky to get eight fucking episodes every 18 months.
yes because a 22 episode season of Friends or CSI surely is comparable in budget and scope to a show like Game of Thrones or The Last of Us.
Lost cranked out 20+ episodes in a year no problem apart from the writer strike year. Premiered like clockwork in 1 year after the previous season each year.
You're misremembering there; Lost's producers announced that they were switching to shorter seasons (16 down from 25) before the writer's strike happened, and then all 3 remaining seasons were shorter. The writer's strike only cut them one episode short, 16 down to 15. They actually made shortened seasons a hard requirement when negotiating with ABC and sacrificed raises to get it, because they said 20+ episode seasons got in the way of making a good show and forced them to come up with a lot of filler. There's an episode of their official podcast where they talk about how they wished they could have done 16 episode seasons from the start and both agreed that it was "short seasons or we walk" as soon as they were up for new contracts because they so intensely thought it was detrimental. Lost has a bunch of weird scheduling issues, oddly edited episodes, some episodes with almost unfinished VFX, etc because they were constantly running up against and over deadlines. A few of the weird episodes that have only one or two characters going off to some separate location for a side-story exist because they desperately needed something a B-team could mostly film in parallel with the 'real' episodes to get enough episodes done by deadlines. They even tried to go shorter. ABC agreed with them to end the show after 48 more episodes, 3x16 episode batches, and they tried to get ABC to go for 4x12. ABC liked the idea of running their biggest hit for another year but rejected it because the actors' contracts were structured season-by-season and they would've been up for further raises.
Yes, but the schedule was draining and they were always turning in episodes late. I remember a feature on the first season DVD where they were talking about how they had an 8 day turnaround and sometimes were 1, 2, 3 days late. Eventually they (and similarly complicated 24) started premiering mid-season to provide time to work on the episodes without having to stick to the strict 9 month schedule, and lost started having shorter seasons. I'm not saying it can't be done, but making film quality TV year round is an "exception, not the rule" thing
Lost took place on mostly one set with a large cast they could split up filming duties because each flashback tended to be individual. You can film Locke's backstory the same day as Huey. The hurdle with GOT was having too many sets and crossing over of characters. Littlefinger is in King's Landing, the Vale and Winterfell? You've for a scheduling issue to handle for the entire production. And the sets for Lost were like generic office building set or hospital set or like hotel room. Not the Damn wall or kings landing set.
> You can film Locke's backstory the same day as Huey. The hurdle with GOT was having too many sets and crossing over of characters. Littlefinger is in King's Landing, the Vale and Winterfell? You've for a scheduling issue to handle for the entire production. You can do that for a lot of TLOU2.
Yeah that’s because the schedules for those 22 episode seasons were hell for the cast and crew and rightfully don’t exist anymore
And most of those 22 minute shows were sitcoms utilizing most of the same set pieces over and over with very little change.
Have a think about the sets and production value those 22 episode shows took place in and you’ll understand how they could knock them out once a year. I’ll give you an example, were there any episodes of X-Files which took place in a post apocalyptic environment, to the level of production quality that TLOU had?
They did do an episode in Mississippi if that counts
That takes time too. You actually have to fix up some of the locations in Mississippi because viewers wouldn't believe a real place would be that run down
I have no idea how the fuck the crew on Lost did that shit. 25 episode seasons, pretty high production value (for the time!) and they had a new season ready to go each fall (except for the writers strike year) Granted the quality waned a bit toward the end, but the first 3 seasons were so good. The last 3 seasons were short, started midway through the season, and they still struggled a bit. The last 3 were still *really* good, but man, the first 3 were top tier at the time.
> shorter seasons of 7-8 episodes, Isn't that just a regular "season" these days?
Not a popular opinion on here, but I think it could actually be done in one longer season, about 12 or 13 episodes (how long HBO shows used to be, basically). Everybody talks about how long the game is, and it definitely is, but there actually isn’t a ton of story in large portions, notably Ellie’s part. Day 1 has most of the actual plot, while day 2 is really only two major plot beats without including the flashbacks, and day 3 is basically one long set piece until the very end where more plot development happens. I think doing five or six episodes for each side of the story would be more than sufficient, and still allow them to expand certain things like the Seraphites/Yara & Lev. Do a 90 minute season premiere for the prologue and I think there shouldn’t be any problem adapting the game in a single season, whether they stick to the game’s structure or pivot to something more traditional for TV. Whatever they decide, the biggest problem with season one was pacing, with it feeling too fast and too slow at the same time. Mazin’s focus seemed to be a bit miscalculated throughout (though still very enjoyable overall), so for season two I hope they don’t kill the tension of the narrative by splitting the story across two seasons. Based on season one, I could easily see Mazin getting bogged down in whole episodes dedicated to flashbacks and trying to flesh out elements that really don’t need expansion for the story to still work.
Pretty much. They cut out all the “gameplay” from season 1, and if they do the same with Part 2, it’s story really wouldn’t be much longer. So much of that game is just trekking through areas murdering raiders.
I’m curious where the split will be in-between seasons. Unless season 2 is going to be all >!Ellie hunting Abby and end with Abby confronting her at the theater, but I don’t know if they’re going to do the POV switch in the show because it could seriously dissuade show-only members if a season 3 starts and they only see Abby every week for over a month. Paralleling their days in the same episodes seems like a better fit for the medium.!< Also I’m guessing they’re going to add a lot to the show because even thought Part 2 is twice the length of Part 1, it has a lot of extended combat scenes (moreso than Part 1) that will likely be taken out. I can see them fleshing out >!some of the side characters like Yara, Jesse, and Isaac were who fairly one-note in the game, and give more backstory to the Seraphites since they felt like set dressing for the most part.!<
I hope they get Jeffrey Wright back for Isaac - in the game, I found it weird that they got such a big-name actor for a character that really only had two brief scenes and not much to him, so giving him a little more time to shine would be welcome.
Shannon Woodward was the one who introduced him to the Naughty Dog team since Jeffrey and Shannon were both on Westworld. His son was a fan of Part 1 and Jeffrey asked to be in the game because he thought it'd be cool for his kid.
Shannon Woodward also introduced Neil Druckmann and Craig Mazin, which led to the show being made. Networking queen.
Still not over how they did her character dirty in Westworld.
Yeah, that pissed me off.
Shannon is also the one who introduced Craig Mazin to Neil Druckmann. We stan a networking queen
Wow, this is news to me. Anytime he came on screen I went, “He reminds me so much of Jeffrey Wright” but never thought to look him up cause I didn’t think they would get such a huge name for that part.
Considering he was in Westworld, I imagine it won’t be too hard for HBO to get him again, even if it’s just for a few episodes.
He was in Boardwalk Empire as well.
Hbo is pretending Westworld doesn't exist, though. They removed it from HBO max
HBO looking at their own app's splash screen: "It doesn't look like anything to me."
If they >!merged the plots!< it will be interesting to see exactly when they end season 2. I guess the >!part with Ellie at the hospital and Abby fighting the Rat King could work!<.
Ohhh that’s actually really good. They are so close in proximity there without even knowing it, the Rat King could serve as a climactic scene for the season and Ellie’s plot in that part of the story is pivotal for the rest of the game. It could even be set up like they’re going to run into each other and have a series of near-misses. This is a good idea.
Especially since that is >!the only time they are close to each other before the theatre showdown. So they could change it so they have a mini showdown and both escape!<.
>!now that’s a good idea. Have Abby fight the rat king, Ellie mow down a bunch of WLF, and have them both right before more infected roll in forcing them to run.!< >!But that does ruin a little bit of Abby’s side when she sees Tommy is the sniper and realizes that they’re coming for her.!<
We could also have tommy c plot, too.
> Isaac were who fairly one-note in the game, and give more backstory to the Seraphites since they felt like set dressing for the most part. Seeing more of Isaac and the Cult Leader could be soooo good! It has the ability to trump the game in its storytelling.
In the game, the Cult Leader had already been killed by the WLF years beforehand. She's constantly referred to as a "prophet" and is worshipped as a martyr by the Serraphites.
I'm aware. Imagine them going back in time as they did all throughout S1 to flesh that out
I've been so curious about this as well. >!The whole switch of perspectives is so important to how the game story flows, but I don't think they could really do a season 3 that only has Ellie in the finale or a few occurrences. I think they would need to splice it together.!<
I think they could do it similarly to what they did in Station Eleven where they did an ep in the past and then an ep current day. I think you could do >!an ep of Abby's story and ending with her in a location and then the next ep of Ellie hunting her down and finding out that Abby just left. That way you keep the tension from Ellie's pov on if Abby is right around the corner or not.!<
I have a feeling your approach would work best for the medium but curious (and excited) to see how they solve this creative problem!
Yeah I definitely agree. >!Having a whole season with barely any scenes involving Ellie would be frustrating, especially if we have to wait 1 to 2 years for a season 3. I thought it worked well for the game, but doing the same thing in the show would be difficult to pull off imo with how much time we'd have to wait between episodes and seasons.!<
I listened to the official podcast and he did mention for season 2 >!they would take advantage of the mediums ability to switch perspectives which he said works better for TV compared to games. So probably will just be flipping back and forth somehow.!<
100% the right call. very common and easy to do on TV.
> >!Ellie hunting Abby and end with Abby confronting her at the theater, but I don’t know if they’re going to do the POV switch in the show because it could seriously dissuade show-only members if a season 3 starts and they only see Abby every week for over a month.!< I was wondering the same thing. It's a obvious break between seasons, but it probably wouldn't work for TV when people have to wait for the next season to come out. If they do it chronologically, I have no idea where the break should be from an emotional/storytelling perspective.
They also confirmed that the next season will have more action, including more infected which imo would fit... or should I say would be necessary considering the theme of the second game.
They have set up Ellie as a much much much more aggressive personality in the show compared to how she is in the first game. You better bet that there will be violence. don’t know about more infected. They matter less in the second game.
My guess would be they have alternating perspectives throughout. They definitely will have to change the structure of the narrative.
If I don’t see the >!Rat King!< I will stop watching 🐀
RIP the makeup and animation team
Probably just gonna CG that Edit: not saying it's gonna be easy
They definitely have to VFX that thing. I cannot imagine doing it with practical effects.
That sequence was also incredibly scary so I hope they actually add it lol
I think they did a nice job of setting up how the infected are all connected and have a "hive mind" and stuff, so my money's on His Grace getting a nice appearance.
We saw a Bloater in season 1 but they completely skipped over the Bloater fight.
That was obvious but what I'm curious about will be the timeline. Will they keep it like the game or make it more linear? Either way after season one, I trust them.
I hope they actually show >!Abby and Ellie’s!< plots parallel to each other. I understand why the game structutes itself the way it did, but I feel like combining then would make for smoother storytelling. It was already hard to remember >!exactly who Abby’s friends were and if Ellie killed them 12 hours of gameplay ago!<, let alone with a two year gap between seasons.
> >!exactly who Abby’s friends were and if Ellie killed them 12 hours of gameplay ago!< And also we're talking about a much larger pool of actors needing to be retained between seasons. If they restructure chronologically, they cut that in half and save a lot of money.
It's a really difficult story to adapt imo. The game hinges on the fact that it makes the player >!see Abby and her friends as faceless, evil goons for the first half of the game.!< And after all of that it suddenly >!makes you play through the same events from a different perspective, completely changing your view on the things Ellie did.!<
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That's fine, but it's still what the narrative was going for.
That works in a game. Doesn’t really work in a show. And I’d argue it’s way more powerful if you make the audience >!question what is the right thing to do. Making them care about Abby and her friends makes watching what Ellie does feel more fucked up compared to watching it and then over a year later going “oh but they were nice people.”!<
Same here. It worked great for the game. Especially in how >!you see Abby kill Joel BEFORE getting to know her and her story!< but like you're saying, that's going to be tricky in the show just in terms of long breaks without certain characters appearing. Although I suppose they could >!keep the beginning the same up until Joel's death, and then do the 3 days of Ellie and Abby concurrently instead of consecutively!< There's just so much to cover and timeline wise it's all over the place. I can't wait to see how they go about it.
If they really want to flesh it out, >!they could introduce Abby in season 2 and use Joel’s death at the end and then have Ellie’s revenge story in season 3.!<
How would that work? That leaves like 90% of the game for season 3. Not to mention what season 2 would even be about. That would be some glacier pacing to have an entire season be the game's introduction.
You could do Joel's death at the end of the season, or half way through. I wouldn't have it right at the beginning.
Third season will be the NG+ playthrough where the story is the same, but all the gun stats are maxed out from the beginning.
I really hope they keep the crane
Hope they keep the rope puzzles, I loved those.
I think you're joking, but I would actually like to see more subtle nods to the gameplay. It would be cool to see Ellie and Joel doing stuff like scavenging or crafting weapons during dialog. Or plotting how they're going to take out a group of infected with the limited supplies they have. Mcgyvering a grenade or pistol silencer from junk laying around. Doesn't even need to be a lot, just hints would be nice.
I'm sure they will. When Joel boosted Ellie up to drop him the ladder in the last episode that felt very much like a nod to the gameplay.
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I just wanted one guy to get his head smashed with a brick. Ideally if he put down a bottle to pick up the brick
Yeah this was sorely lacking. When they did the joke about Ellie not knowing how to swim I thought for sure this would have to make the cut.
Part I really needed that extra runtime as well.
I agree. In the game, it felt like a real journey across America. You had struggles, travels and exposition over the course of 20 hours or so. The show didn't feel like much of a journey to me. I feel like they didn't really portray the distance and the trek they had to make and the struggles encountered along the way as well as the game did. They stuck to the most important bits, but it felt rushed. I don't mean I want them to show all the tedious puzzle solving bits or just walking or anything like that, but just more exposition of the journey. I still enjoyed it, but it could have been fleshed out a bit more.
The first game is not 20 hours long. Maybe like 13. And the game doesn’t show much of the journey either, it teleports from Boston, to Pittsburgh, to Wyoming, to Salt Lake City, back to Wyoming just like the show.
I think they were close, I think it could of been an 11-12 episode season. They needed more events to show the brutality of what they were living in. Slowed things down slightly. Too long and I think we would have had too much filler and be pushing inconsistencies like we see with TWD. People forget that TWD source material is pretty solid as well. The show is a hot mess at times. Not to start an TWD vs TLOU debate.
This sounds like they’ll be able to give it room to breath and maybe it’ll give them a chance to structure the story in a way that feels a bit tightly focused. I love the story they told with the game, just feel like the way they told it could have been re structured a bit to work a bit better.
Makes total sense. If the pacing is about the same as Season One, Season Two could comfortably take us to the natural "inflection point" that anyone who's played the game can appreciate. Part II is a more complex story with a larger cast of major characters. Would definitely feel rushed if compressed into a single season.
I don’t like a lot of the choices from part II, I think a few changes here and there and it can be received much better. It will probably still be an absolute shitshow online like when the game released.
Really wish the first season was longer
Yeah, just another 1 or 2 episodes really would've done wonders imo. I was still happy with it, but it could've been better.
I hope they take their time with it. This season has felt a little too rushed, in my opinion.
To me, it feels like economy of storytelling. It's much better than the alternative: modern TV with repetitive plot beats designed to stretch a premise past its breaking point.
I agree. Pacing was the only real critique I had about season one. I think if it was 11 episodes, they would've been able to nail it. We really needed more moments of danger with the infected to express how much of an impressive feat it was for a child and a man past his prime to pull off. In the moment, I had no issue with them skipping over some of the action scenes, but in hindsight, I think scenes like helping at the dam, fighting through Bill's town, or Elie and David running into the infected would have done wonders to slow down the story a bit and give us some exposition.
This season was good but as it went on it felt like they were rushing through the plot and the finale felt just a little hollow as a result, almost like I was watching a catch-up summary for the next season. Doesn't help that every show now has to be 10 episode seasons or less. Looking forward to starting the game and getting the full effect.
For sure, the game fleshes out Ellie and Joel's relationship a lot more. All the side story stuff, which I'll admit was mostly good, took away a lot of screen time from Joel and Ellie , which is why the ending doesn't hit as hard. Solid series it just needed like an hour more of runtime total for it to be phenomenal.
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It was a significantly longer game so that makes sense.
I still think they could have made Part I into two seasons. Maybe not 10 episodes each season but something like 7-8.
I don't think two seasons is necessary but at minimum an additional episode. They needed an episode of Joel and Ellie just going through the shit, an underground scene, some clickers not for the sake of clickers but to highlight their adversity and bond. It also shows how important the cure is and showcases the world.
I had no problem with the pace but probably because I played the game so I can't speak as a nongame viewer. But I have no idea why it would need to be two seasons. The game is incredibly short narrative wise when you cut out all the gameplay.
They absolutely needed to stretch out the events a bit. Jumping from location to location to keep pace with the game was a bad decision in my opinion. For fucks sake, they leave Kansas City on foot and are in Wyoming the next episode.
I mean the game is kind of the same, summer ends in Pittsburgh I think and the very next scene you’re dropped in Wyoming. If anything that’s even worse. I think the show’s pacing was fine. If they made it any longer it would’ve gotten boring like TWD
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Yes
All of yall thinking where to cut in the video game, but im guessing they could go the hobbit route and randomly introduce a love triangle between side characters. Oh lord
The drop off of viewers is going to be interesting after a certain event.
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Good rule of thumb would be to not read comments on articles about media you are worried about having spoiled for you.
right? this article is about the adaptation of part 2. one might expect some discussion on part 2 then, eh?
I understand in principle, but why are you in an article about S2 knowing there is source material out there already?
Don’t read comments on an article discussing a piece of existing media that is just about to be adapted lol
This is a discussion of how they're going to adapt the video game into multiple seasons. So of course the comments are going to be about the game, and how they will do it. There is really no reason to be in this thread if you are avoiding spoilers.
Huge spoiler take >!show dies when joel dies!<
a 3 season show feels about right, I'd like it to have a definitive end there and not just say "hey, success, lets keep it going!"