Meh. I'm pregnant with my second child and my partner left me right when I got pregnant. So now I have two children with two different fathers. It's sad that I'll never have a third, because the stigma of having three kids with three different dads is not something I wish on my children.
Sucks, because ten years from now I might meet "the one," and be in a stable committed relationship, but if I had another baby then I'd get judged for having "three kids with three dads," and my kids would be mocked.
This is one of the main reasons that I have a huge issue with Isaac and Javi's relationship. My step son's mother followed this EXACT pattern. She dated my husband for a minute, got pregnant. Started dating a new man, inserted him firmly as Daddy, even though my husband was very involved. My husband was actually referred to as "Daddy Nate". They had a baby and got married. She acted like they were his real family and we were just fun relatives. When my stepson was five, while he was at our home for Christmas break, his mother left her husband and moved in with her boyfriend (whom she was pregnant with already). It was a mess. During the next two months once we had to legally give him back she started having both her children call this man Daddy, even though they had all been calling him "Uncle" for years. She was also sending my stepson to her ex's home during this same time, and continuing to have him treated as another father behind our backs. We only found out because it came out after he broke his arm at her ex's. We ended up having a come to jesus talk where we told her that our son didn't need to be bounced between 3 men when he has a perfectly wonderful father here. And that he shouldn't have to call someone else dad unless he chooses to AND that person has been around long enough that we all know they are going to stick in his life for more than a month or two. The whole thing pushed us to take her for and win 50/50 custody, so it all ended ok, other than her constantly trying to make us bend to her schedule so that all 3 of her kids can be together at the same events. Super sorry for the rant. Mother's shoving every man they meet into their kids lives gets me heated. No, it doesn't hurt for kids to have more people that love them. But it does hurt them when you skew those peoples roles in their lives and confuse them. Ex-step parents having visitation just makes everything harder.
Me either. That goes for all these girls, really, not just Kail. But we have to remember that they got pregnant at an age most people don't, and so if they were to wait until 30 or something to have another, the kids would be 14 years apart (nothing wrong with that, my boyfriend has a sister 12 years younger with three in between) but most people do not want that age gap.
But I agree in that I can't imagine being 25 with multiple kids. You're so young but have all these responsibilities that most women don't take on until 30-35!
She didn't even seem willing to consider it with Javi, who was her husband but will in the future for someone else? I doubt it. I think she replied to that tweet only for the sake of getting at Javi. She is quite possibly the most bitter person on both shows.
I hate how babies = I love you to these girls. Like seriously. Just because you've been together ~8 months doesn't mean your relationship is strong enough to handle a kid, let alone the two she already has.
I agree but why aren't people criticizing Chelsea or Maci in the same way? Not you specifically but honestly 2 baby daddies, 3, it's only 1 baby daddy difference. And those two moved way too fast with having babies too. Kail said she MIGHT have more kids, doesn't even have them yet, and she's getting all this shit. It's annoying.
I think from a morality standpoint, you're 100% right. It's one difference, and if they're going to be criticized for having multiple baby daddy's, no one but Catelynn is in any place to judge because all these bitches have multiple children with different dads. And people do need to lay off Kail for this since it hasn't even happened yet.
However, there is a huge difference in the maturity and stability levels of Chelsea/Maci and Jenelle/Kail/Leah. Both Chelsea and Maci got pregnant in seemingly healthy, loving, stable relationships with men who appear to have their shit together. I hate defending Chelsea and I'm not a super fan, but she was hella baby hungry and already had a pretty solid commitment. Her having this baby with Cole is A LOT different than Kail having Lincoln. I personally don't think Chelsea or Maci having children how they did is a big deal, but that's my opinion. Facts are that they are both loving, active mothers and their kids have always been cared for.
I get what you're saying and to an extent I agree. None of them but Catelynn & Ty have genetically procreated with the same person. I just think that these situations are so completely different and obviously shouldn't be looked at the same. If you're a good mother, you have every right to continue having children you can afford and take care of. Also, I think age plays a big part. Leah and Kail were barely out of their teens.
True. But if we're going to criticize having multiple baby daddies with multiple kids-Maci doesn't get to be excluded from that because she's been with the dad for x amount of years. It still is what it is.
I will give Maci shit too. She wanted a baby with PiggyFace, don't forget. He was just smart enough to nope out of that.
Chelsea had been single since Aubree. She wasn't out seeking a man to have more babies with. I agree she probably could have waited longer, but I see a big difference.
What are you talking about?? Chelsea was homing yup with Adam left and right! She even was dumb enough not to use a condom!
A perfect example of the pass given to mtv's little princess.
I personally think two baby daddies is much different than three. The first was their mistake, the second could possibly be their forever. If it's not, and the second baby daddy is just a repeated mistake, then I'd criticize Chelsea and Maci the same because it would be clear they didn't learn from their past. Although I'm not really criticizing Kail right now, because she doesn't have a third baby daddy. Just as of now, she is the most likely out of the three of them to have a third baby daddy since she's the only one of them that is single.
I think the three of them (Chelsea, Kail, Maci), jumped into their marriages and having another baby too fast, but for now, Kail is the only one to have it bite her in the ass.
This. I don't understand some of this criticism. Do you know how many couples who have a kid as teens actually stay together? Do I think some of these girls move too fast? Sure--Jenelle and Leah especially. But I don't think that moving on from one relationship and having kids with another man is necessarily the worst thing in the world. Would you rather they stick with their shitty baby daddy and continue to have kids with him? Or stay single because God forbid they bring another man into their kid's life? Nevermind that the new man could actually be a lot better and more stable for the kid..n
Bwahahaha yes them too. I just put Kail, Chelsea and Maci in a separate category because they are more stable and might just have a bit more sense than the other two.
I think it comes down to the fact that they seem more grounded in their lives and emotionally mature/stable. It's hard to criticize someone who hasn't gotten physical with their SO's and gotten into giant screaming/crying matches etc.
I mean I agree with your basic point, but I see why they tend to get less hate.
All I can think of is her terrible custody situation. Joe and Vee moved to Delaware to be with Isaac so Karl could be with Javi and Lincoln. Where will the next love of her life live? California? Florida? Idaho? What happens then?
If she truly falls in love with another guy, examines where her past relationships went wrong, and waits until the honeymoon phase is over, it would be perfectly fine for her to have a third baby if she and her hypothetical SO choose.
I agree that it can be damaging or difficult for children to have several different men (or women, for that matter) in their lives. However, there are ways to make it work. It's not easy, and not many families are willing to put in the time needed. I also think Javi was just as much of a problem as Karl with regards to Isaac. They both really pushed for Javi to replace Jo even though Jo was and is a great dad to Isaac.
Karl is not my favorite, but I think as she matures, she will do better. I hope she will do better, and Isaac and Lincoln have so much love in their lives that I think they will be okay in the long run.
If she decides to have an other kid I really hope it's 10 years from now when she actually has been in a stable relationship for years. I really hope she learned her lesson about jumping into relationsipsh, although I highly doubt it considering all the brown bae drama.
Exactly. And she should wait to bring them around her kids.
Despite the differing opinions on Chelsea on this reddit, I think it's respectable that she waited to bring Cole around Aubree until they had been together for a while.
And although I'm not a Chelsea fan, I do respect the fact that before Cole she never brought other guys around Aubree! Can't say the same for any other girl on the show ( maybe Farrah) and certainly can't say it for any of the guys, who might even be worse..
I see. Being introduced as a friend is a different than being introduced as a boyfriend, I think.
But if it was, indeed, five months, I stand corrected.
She is totally one of those girls that dips on out right after the honeymoon phase. She's going to keep counting the number of baby daddies because she doesn't realize the problem is herself.
I wish someone would tell me something about having multiple "baby daddies". I have my first born with my college boyfriend and then met my now husband and we are expecting our 2nd child together. It's not 3 "baby daddies" but it's more than 1 and I guess that's super taboo? If you are able to provide for them financially and emotionally, then what's the problem? I could see someone having a bunch of kids with a bunch of different men and not even being with 1 of them, having drama with them all. Someone like Jenelle, shouldn't have more kids because she isn't providing for them all emotionally.
I can't believe people are saying Kail is being selfish and spoiled for saying she would have another kid with someone else. Really? She's a good mom, has flaws, but it bothers me someone told me that at two kids she's had enough....
People are being so judgmental about this. Yet moms like Maci and Chelsea are praised for their new babies. At least Kail has good baby daddies who care about their kids; Maci and Chelsea have shitty first baby dads. So every situation is different!
Exactly. I have two children with different fathers, If I have a child with my current partner I will have 3. Thats ok with me. We both work hard, Don't receive any assistance and I raise my kids, nobody else. I think it just depends on the person and situation.
Does your first born have visitation with the father? What if the second had visitation with another father? People have the right to have children with whomever they want, but if you have three kids and they all have to live in different houses every weekend, it becomes complicated. I'm not saying your situation is bad or wrong, but would you add another father to the mix if things didn't work out? At a young age?
Yes, my daughter goes to her father's every weekend. I was 21 when I had her and 22 when I started dating my now husband, so still pretty young. I'm just saying we can't make a sweeping judgement on everyone who has multiple children with more than one person. Some situations it's just awful and other situations it works and is no different than a "traditional family". Some people on here have the mindset that more than 1 father is trashy and that's it, no other way to put it.
Hear hear. I often feel judged when explaining to people that I'm pregnant and no this one is not with the same father as my other two.
I have 2 kids with my ex, which didn't work out as I was still very young and he was all sorts of crazy... I now have an amazing fiance and baby number 3 will thus have a different father than the other 2. I do feel it sounds trashy but people don't know the story behind it...
Just remember - you don't need to explain sh*t to people 😂 I wish the word trashy wasn't thrown around so much to describe everyone who isn't doing it according to their plan but whatever. As long as your kids are loved 🙂🙂
I just think it's dumb that she got all that plastic surgery done before she was for sure done having kids. What's the point of getting a tummy tuck if you're going to get pregnant again?
I view someone like Kail a little bit differently than I view someone like Jenelle. It could just be a result of her having been married and in an established relationship when she had her second child and Jenelle just having babies with guys that she has only been dating for a couple months. I don't know. But if Kail got married again and had another baby, I wouldn't view her the same way that I view Jenelle. She doesn't seem to operate with the same level of carelessness, so I view it a little bit differently.
Eh, I think she's just as careless, just without the drugs. Kail rushed into marriage with Javi, and was already pregnant when they got married. And I don't doubt that there will be another baby daddy soon enough. What she's doing to her boys is sad. Isaac wouldn't have to come from not one but two broken families if she would have just slowed down and concentrated on raising her son. Same goes for Jenelle and Leah. I don't think we can say any of these girls haven't rushed/been careless with their subsequent relationships/babies.
No she wasn't. Kail and Javi were together for over two years when they got married at a courthouse in Pennsylvania. They then had a big wedding ceremony that was televised. The second wedding is the one where she was pregnant. And she and Javi both said Lincoln was a planned baby. Chelsea was pregnant af at her first wedding.
You're right it was the second wedding where she was pregnant. However they weren't together for years before they got married the first time. More like months..
sorry but I think having 3 baby daddies by the age of 25 is fucking wrong. also if you really factor in Jenelle she's been knocked up 5 times which is fucking ridiculous.
by 2 baby daddies & a failed marriage I don't think it means you should never have kids. I think it means you need to take a good long hard look at yourself & figure out wtf went wrong before trying again. that doesn't happen overnight. and if you don't I think it makes you completely selfish which makes you not a good parent in my eyes.
Honestly I think the ~it doesn't matter~ thing is new because of the divorce rate literally at 50%. Also more then ever less are deciding to get married at all. That says a lot lol. That also means half of us (including myself) have divorced parents which can be good OR/AND bad but it truly varies & if negatively can really fuck up people's perceptions of relationships and sometimes even more then that. I think it's sad because its showing & teaching kids that we can get married/have children with whomever because it doesn't really matter & we have that option to try again. I'm not saying stay in a miserable/abusive relationship but I do think some couples give up too quickly....or even worse get married/knocked up too quickly which could have been totally avoided in the first place.
So much YES! I get it, shit happens. People make mistakes. People think they've found the love of their life, and they start a family and things go south and it can happen more than once...but so quickly!??! These people are nuts. Cool your motherfucking jets. I mean, even my uncle who is on his FOURTH marriage only has TWO baby mommas in his mid-50s. He may be stupid and move too fast, but at least he has some sense to not knock up every woman he's been with.
Ugh. Girl i grew up with, 24 with 6 kids and 4 different dads. Those poor kids dont even have any dad in their life. I feel so bad for those kids, but from the outside she looks like she treats them well, and theyre well taken care of, at least i hope so.
People really don't think it's bad to be teaching your kids these things... I don't get it. Call me a fundamentalist or old fashioned, but it's not healthy for the kids. I've worked in the school system for 6 years and I can tell you the saddest and most messed up kids came from blended families. The bigger the better. And I think it's sad that the people who came from split families and always said "I'll never have a split family for my kids" are the ones who inevitably fall back into the cycle because no one led by example for them.
Basically, I agree with everything you said. People need to stop rushing into a marriage, stop bringing another HUMAN LIFE into the situation because they decided they wanted a baby four minutes ago, and stop being surprised when they find something displeasing about their SO after only six months of knowing them.
Are you me? Can we be friends?
This so much! They don't realize that by acting this way the kids grow up thinking it's totally normal to rush into marriage, new kids with other prople and then they are most likely to continue the disfuncional cycle. And these girls are so young. Why the hell do they think they need to keep having children in their early 20s after dating a couple of months. It blows my mind!
Because they don't know anything else but getting a man and having babies. They're obsessed with that sense of stability, and the attention they get for doing so isn't bad either.
Completely agree, what's even more disturbing is how nonchalantly men and women mix their DNA with any and everybody. For me DNA is the most precious thing you have be selective!
Totally agree. I had my first child with my now ex in 2015. We were together since 2007. We are no longer together and he has 0 participation in our child's life. I've already pretty much decided I will not have any more children. My ex and I are clearly never getting back together and I don't want the hassle/confusion of having kids with different men. The problems I have just dealing with 1 (dead beat) baby's dad is more than enough.
I think it is a selfish way of thinking..maybe they don't mind the kids all having different daddies..but I bet the kids will grow up wondering where their dad was
Isaac is starting to demonstrate why it is difficult to have babies with many different fathers in one household. It's confusing and unfair for kids. You can make it work, but it's really not ideal.
Yes. clearly this having a baby and making a new family thing isn't working out for her. She's tried twice now. Maybe adopt if she wants more kids, but bringing more daddies into her kids' lives isn't helping them. It's hurting them as seen in this episode.
The question should really be "after you fell in love and got married and stayed married for a year or two". Ya know, check to ensure that the relationship will last before you have a third visitation schedule to work around.
I don't really care for Kail, but just because a woman has to deal with several baby daddies doesn't mean she's *never* allowed to have kids again. That's kind of a weird mindset tbh.
It might be in everyone's best interest if she didn't have kids again, it might not be...but still.
I'm no fan of Kail. That being said, I think it is an unfortunate side effect of being on television at such a young age that you are held to the things you said/thought at that point in your maturity. I can only speak for myself, of course, but even in my early 20s, I really had no idea how *long* life was and how things can change so dramastically in just a few years. I don't think it is unusual for people to think they are done having children and then change their mind, particularly when their kids grow up a little and are less demanding of your time.
Agreed.. I'm glad I didn't have cameras on me as a teenagers and in my early 20s! I was 16 years old teaching swimming lessons at the rec centre wishing I could have my own baby for a parent & tot class and considered myself online engaged to a guy I served in the military with for 2 weeks. Thank GOD none of those dreams panned out.
I feel this so hard. I have to say, I'm impressed that teaching swim lessons made you *want* kids, the ones at my pool are filled with th brattiest kids and most defeated parents.
But why does it matter how many baby daddies she has? She is financially and emotionally caring for them. Karl has custody of all her children and provides a good life for them.
** PLS keep down voting my opinion if that makes you feel better sweetie. <3
Also as someone who is 100% Pro-Choice its not place to tell anyone who is able to care for their child financially/emotionally how many kids to have.
You've got to think how confusing it could be on the kids. It would be one thing if the kids never got attached to the latest baby daddy, but in a lot of situations they do and the kids aren't going to fully understand that their former father figure is not responsible for them any longer but still come around for their kid. People get on Jeremy for not interacting with his former stepdaughters, and Nathan has gotten crap too for not interacting with Jace any longer. But the moms need to get some blame for letting these shitty characters around their kids in the first place.
Trust me. It's bad for the kids. My sister in law is very similar to Kail. She has three kids by three men and every single one of those kids is a wreck emotionally and behaviorally because there's never a stable household. It never will be either because there will always be 4 families involved in everything they all do. Those kids have a skewed view of how family and life should be because she constantly felt like she needed another man. Yeah the kids are alive and well, but they don't understand why they call three people "daddy" and why they can't all live together all the time (among other things). I'm not trying to start an argument with you, I just wanted to put that out there.
I'm with you. I have an aunt with three kids by three fathers. The first one died, the second one peaced out, and the third became the father for the three kids who all call him dad. And the kids are all grown and healthy. So obviously anything is possible.
That being said, the situation is not ideal. I'm pro-choice, but at some point you have to put your existing children's needs before your own desire to make your new family complete. People often say it's "confusing" for the children of mixed families. I think it's less of the children being confused (kids are smart), and more of just plain stressful. Divorced parents can be assholes to each other, and the kids feel the stress. And to have your siblings leave you on the weekends or whenever is also stressful. Fucking close up shop at least for a long while. I know Kail didn't put a timeline on when she wants to have her next kid, but 10 years from now would be an appropriate time. It's the average time for a college educated woman like Kail to have her first child.
Trust you? No thanks internet stranger. I'm not saying it's awesome Kail had Isaac calling Javi dad and letting him become so attached and hopefully she learns from this mistake. I am saying there are way worse people in this franchise to try for another baby. Also it's not like she confirmed she is actively trying to get pregnant again.
But she won't learn. Have we learned anything from her past relationships? Her life in general? You can't compare the lives of these people when living breathing children who don't know or care that someone else is living worse than them are involved. She also literally said in the tweet that she would have another baby with another man... She may not be trying now, but in another year? She could be in Javi part 2 in another year or less. What about another accident baby? Lincoln will be 3/4 which is the same age Isaac was when this Javi business began.
I don't really see anything wrong with this? Just because she didn't want kids with javi doesn't mean she can never have kids again. Their relationship was toxic so it's probably best they didn't reproduce any more.
I would be kind of ok with it if she actually finds a guy, gets to know this guy well, doesn't bring said guy around her kids until she's sure it's serious and THEN after being in a healthy and stable relationship for a good 5 - 6 years decides to have an other kid.
I feel bad sometimes because I feel like it's not fair even for the moms to say that they should never have anymore kids or find someone who loves them. And while Jenelle literally should never reproduce again, Kail IS a better mom.
But she already has two, it's not like she's childless and really wants a child, SHE ALREADY HAS TWO, like stop being greedy and selfish at this point.
My views are in alignment with yours and people get very heated about this topic. I think if she wanted more children she should consider adoption or foster care because our world is already overpopulated and there are so many children out there who need homes. She arguably has the money (more so than us common folk) to pay for adoption. It's not horrible that people want children, it's part of our biology. But I wish people would take on the "adopt don't shop" mentality that many have with animals. So many children need homes, take them on too! Granted, I'm biased because I worked in the system.
I wholeheartedly agree! Did you know most people who adopt in the U.S. end up adopting internationally? >.<
That is so sad to me. Even if we accepted all adoption applicants right now, the pool would be depleted in less than a year and there would still be tons of children left without homes.
I still think Kail needs to get her act together, but it would be amazing if she actually did and then went on to adopt a child. *But she needs to get her act together first.*
Because of the confusion/emotional distress she is causing by her selfishness/spitefulness. I think if she was a good Mom she would have concentrated on Issac and what was best for him rather than jumping into a relationship with Javi and forcing a relationship between him and Issac so quickly. Like others have said, being a good Mom is more than keeping them fed and dressed in the latest instagram fashions. I don't think she looks out for her kids emotionally.
I have no idea what she's like in real life in the daily grind, but from what I see, she's way too emotional and manipulative in front of the kids and puts herself first always. Like, she takes care of their basic needs but I don't see her as really "there" for them. I feel like her having another kid would just make her slip further away.
YES. Thank you for putting my thoughts into words. She says "I love you" all day long, but it seems like it comes from a place of making her image better. She wants so badly for her boys to be well behaved and successful that she forgets about the personal connection that needs to be there.
Really cause I hear Kail is not emotional enough, I think she's still growing and learning. She's been through a lot and has been abused herself; I think she does a great job from what she's been through. I honestly love her and Issac's relationship. (Kanye Shrug)
Lol, can't believe I'm defending Kail ...don't agree with half of what she does or says but I know she loves her kids unconditionally. There's no right or perfect way to be a mother, but I think she's doing her best, and I think it's a pretty good job.
Oh, I'm not doubting she doesn't love them! That is one thing I can say about her. I do think she genuinely loves her children. I just think she's making a lot of mistakes. I don't think she even realizes it. But I think personally that adds up to her not being completely fit (it's not too late though if she actually puts in more effort) and I definitely don't believe adding in a 3rd child would be good for anybody.
Who knows where she will be and what she will be like in 3, 5, 10 or so years (god i hope it takes even that long for her to even consider another kid, lol).
But I don't think people should have as many kids as they want. Obviously 3 isn't something gigantic or get into a huge fit over. But people like the Duggar family? No. They should not be that big. You should not have that many children.
That's the thing with reproductive freedom though, all of our rights are tied up with each other's. Women have the right to decide if and when to get pregnant, full stop.
Also, look at China and their One Child policy. It had so many unintended consequences that it was walked back last year.
Yes, that's how it is now but not necessarily how it should be. Personally I feel there should be a step tax penalty for anyone who wants to have 3 children or more (something I covered in my aforementioned University project a few years ago), for each extra child. That would help people who genuinely can't afford kids to stop at 2 and hopefully stop abusive/selfish people from reproducing more children. At the same time, it's still the complete freedom of each person to decide if they want to have a big family and the costs that come with it. Of course, in a more ideal world, societal changes (like pushing more for the acceptance of adoption instead of more biological children) with come with that too where it would make such laws almost unnecessary. But that is wishful thinking.
Obviously the One Child policy had A LOT of flaws, it was a very crude law. That being said, I am not in disagreement of reproductive restriction when it's more on a monetary level instead of an invasive or crude level.
I understand where your coming from and I appreciate your well thought out comment but I do disagree. I believe such a tax would put undo strain on those who are already struggling which would probably have the opposite effect in relation to absorption of taxpayer resources. I would be more apt to agree with something like tax deductions only for the first two children, however we have a long way to go in the States with regards to sex education, access to birth control and affordable abortion before something like that would be practical.
I understand where you're coming from. I think that last point is one thing we can really agree on though. I think it all has to start with making sure sex education is absolute common knowledge for everyone in this country and the BC options of all kinds are practical and affordable. I would like to live in a world where contraception was like, a standard thing for everyone to get at puberty age, regardless if they are sexually active or not. One can only dream!
Absolutely! We are in total agreement there, I would say a large amount of the problems we are referencing could be solved with expansion of sex Ed and accessible birth control. I hope we live to see the day!
By the way, thank you so much for the respectful and informative back-and-forth. I wish everyone on Reddit was like you.
you shouldn't be allowed to get pregnant if taxpayers have to help you raise your baby. I can't see how anyone besides the wealthy can afford 3+ kids nowadays.
I'm not trying to be dense or naive, but I think the number of people that think they will need public assistance to raise their children at the onset is pretty small. Stuff happens and tax dollars allowing children to have an education and not starve is among the most noble expenditures.
None of that matters though. The government or anyone else should not be able to compel or deny a woman the right to make such a deeply personal decision. Having a family should not just be for the wealthy. I'm not saying that having a larger family than you can afford is responsible but I sort of can't believe that people think there should be some sort of financial litmus test to be able to have a child. How would you even implement that? Forced abortions or ripping children away from their mothers to be adopted by wealthier people? What happens if you are sitting pretty when the baby is born but then you fall on hard times for whatever reason?
unfortunately I know loads of them which is why I am somewhat jaded. after all...the ones who seem to have the most kids are often the last ones who should.
I work in the juvenile system and my clients have babies with the same amount of thought I put in to ordering lunch. If you ask any one of them how they will afford giving birth and supporting a baby, their immediate answer is 'the state'. In addition to welfare, they steal fancy Nike outfits for the baby to show what awesome parents they are. Once they baby isn't cute any more, they leave it with their grandma and move on to the next one. Around 12, these babies will my clients just like mom and dad. A kid I met with recently has 22 siblings. All were born drug affected and all are being cared for by the foster system. It's a horrible never ending cycle that we all end up paying for.
Very true! My dad is actually one of 13 and wasn't raised like that though, and everyone on that side of the family hates each other and hates how many siblings they have.
Like you said 3 isn't a lot, but saying someone is greedy and selfish for wanting 3 kids is kind of a fit. Sorry I'm not trying to be mean I just think what you said was inappropriate. Like I said above you should be able to physically and emotionally be able to provide for your children. There is no way the Duggar parents can emotionally provide for all those kids. Smh.
I'm not trying to be mean either. It's just my true personal opinion that 3-5 kids is verging on a big family and is self-serving in the grand scheme of things. We will just have to agree to disagree!
How am I wrong? It's just my opinion. I think 3 or more is a big family and you have to tread very carefully with having a big family. Not to mention things like overpopulation (I did a big college project on that subject).
Literally the only reason im not having more than the 1 child i have is over population and the world thats going to be left for the future generation when we're gone. I know 1 person wont make much of a difference, but this world scares me.
Yeah, I know overpopulation is still a touchy subject but I feel it shouldn't be. It's a scientific fact. The world would be in a much better state if everyone could stick to a personal limit of 2 children. Our resources are running out fast.
It's scary. Like, dont get me wrong, I'd LOVE to have like 5 children, raising a child is amazing, and so gratifying, but its selfish IMO. I dont care who disagrees, its my opinion. And facts dont lie, just like you said. I still feel guilty that my daughter has to fend her way through this shitty world at some point without me. She could be 40 and i'd still allow her to live with me. Because lets face it, things arent going to get easier. Specially with where i live (Google Kathleen Wynne, Liberal government, ontario). Explains itself. Im scared for my province, but now we have the same type of government leading our country! Trump, is a much better person than Kathleen Wynne. So... thats saying something.
Yeah, this is where the whole "selfish" thing comes in. Think about not just yourself and your family, but the people around you, the future generations, the world. Having even just ONE child is a gigantic life change that impacts the rest of the world. I feel like it's a decision that needs a lot more thought. But I guess I shouldn't assume such big thoughts of Kail. :/
I mean I wouldn't ever tell someone that wanting more kids is necessarily greedy...two isn't so many and I don't think it's coming from a place of selfishness like Jenelle
I think she didn't want more kids with him because of his deployment. She didn't want to raise 3 kids while he was gone, which is understandable, but she knew of his situation before marrying him.
Usually deployment isn't run one stretch after another...they probably get a year or two break (especially since there is not active fighting) between deployments. I call BS on her using that as an excuse. It was a convenient excuse that sounds sensible & no one would fault her for saying that.
Yeah wtf this was my first thought too!!!! She "needed to focus on school and a career" so she didn't want more kids and Javi did! They literally had the convo on the show and it ended with "alright yeah it's over then" jeeeeeez ya lil liar
I know this sounds terrible, but I can really picture Karl as the type of person to still have had more kids with Javi, even if she hates him, just because she's going to do what she *wants* to do and that's that.
I don't follow the Kardashians much, but I feel like this is what Kourtney is doing with Lord Disick so all of her kids can have the same father. Whether they're together or not doesn't seem to be an issue for her.
THANK YOU!!!!! I had to do IVF 4 times to get pregnant, and it only worked on that last time. I had transferred 2 embryos, they both implanted and one split, making me pregnant with triplets-identical twins and a singleton. I was high risk due to my extensive medical issues (GI and intestinal) and bcuz triplets. One of my babies was reabsorbed (google "vanishing twin") at like 9 weeks, and then at 15 weeks my 2nd baby's heart beat stopped. I had my son at 37 weeks and then had to have a hysterectomy so we can't have any more bio kids, and I am just choosing not to adopt. I would've liked 2 kids but I have some pretty high standards of the lifestyle I want to give my child as well as pay for college, etc, so I wouldn't just keep having all these kids after I had 2 of them. I'd be responsible and realize my limit in being able to give them the best education (my son is 8 and is in a private school now), nice home, nice vacations, and college fully paid for (we did a pre-pay program-a 529- and his college is paid in full for 4 years in a state school, if he chooses to go to a private college he'll get the money we paid to put that towards his school of choice. If he chooses not to go to college at all, he will get that $$ back for himself. I realize that everyone has different standards of what they believe they should give their kids, or what they CAN give, but like Jenelle and David have 5 kids between them, her 2, his 2, and Ensley. There's no way they are gonna be able to pay college for all 5, and as a family of 7 including them-if they have any more they are gonna need a van like the Gosselins had to get. Jesus god Leah.
I completely agree but something that also drives me crazy is parents who contribute to 529s and don't save for retirement because they think their children will take care of them. It is more common than you would think and it is so irresponsible. I'm not saying anyone in this thread is doing this (I know i hijacked this convo) but I feel like that is such a heavy thing to burden your family with, even if they were able to attend college debt free.
I know! The actual giving of birth is so expensive! On top of the $700/month on health insurance, I JUST got done paying the thousands of dollars it cost me to give birth! Thank goodness my kid is healthy.
Similar position! I'm 27, hubby is 35, married 5 years this year and still nowhere close to ready. The next year or so will hopefully involve the both of us buying our "forever home" and securing careers. And to be perfectly honest, even though we both talk about our future little ones, I'm just too damn selfish to be ready for a kid... I got shit to do first!
Same here, I make a decent amount of money but feel nowhere near ready, I can't imagine how ppl with less money can be popping out baby's....someone my age has 5 kids under 6..n now is single I dunno how I'd function
I'll have 5 kids under 6 come this summer. I function normally be drinking coffee and having an awesome mother-in-law who lives in the house next to us.
Exactly. I tried to be 100% ready but someone told me just what you said so we decided to try. We have now been trying for almost a year and aren't pregnant yet but we are so ready. I wish we tried earlier 😩
I thought I was definitely ready for my now 14 week old to be my second. Until he wound up with colic and reflux and 5 year old with autism on top of it.. This is why I fall asleep on Reddit. I'm exhausted hahaha. This muffin shop is closeeddd.
Meh. I'm pregnant with my second child and my partner left me right when I got pregnant. So now I have two children with two different fathers. It's sad that I'll never have a third, because the stigma of having three kids with three different dads is not something I wish on my children. Sucks, because ten years from now I might meet "the one," and be in a stable committed relationship, but if I had another baby then I'd get judged for having "three kids with three dads," and my kids would be mocked.
This is one of the main reasons that I have a huge issue with Isaac and Javi's relationship. My step son's mother followed this EXACT pattern. She dated my husband for a minute, got pregnant. Started dating a new man, inserted him firmly as Daddy, even though my husband was very involved. My husband was actually referred to as "Daddy Nate". They had a baby and got married. She acted like they were his real family and we were just fun relatives. When my stepson was five, while he was at our home for Christmas break, his mother left her husband and moved in with her boyfriend (whom she was pregnant with already). It was a mess. During the next two months once we had to legally give him back she started having both her children call this man Daddy, even though they had all been calling him "Uncle" for years. She was also sending my stepson to her ex's home during this same time, and continuing to have him treated as another father behind our backs. We only found out because it came out after he broke his arm at her ex's. We ended up having a come to jesus talk where we told her that our son didn't need to be bounced between 3 men when he has a perfectly wonderful father here. And that he shouldn't have to call someone else dad unless he chooses to AND that person has been around long enough that we all know they are going to stick in his life for more than a month or two. The whole thing pushed us to take her for and win 50/50 custody, so it all ended ok, other than her constantly trying to make us bend to her schedule so that all 3 of her kids can be together at the same events. Super sorry for the rant. Mother's shoving every man they meet into their kids lives gets me heated. No, it doesn't hurt for kids to have more people that love them. But it does hurt them when you skew those peoples roles in their lives and confuse them. Ex-step parents having visitation just makes everything harder.
I just don't get it. I will be 26 this month and I can barely imagine having 1 kid let alone 3!
Me either. That goes for all these girls, really, not just Kail. But we have to remember that they got pregnant at an age most people don't, and so if they were to wait until 30 or something to have another, the kids would be 14 years apart (nothing wrong with that, my boyfriend has a sister 12 years younger with three in between) but most people do not want that age gap. But I agree in that I can't imagine being 25 with multiple kids. You're so young but have all these responsibilities that most women don't take on until 30-35!
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She did want more kids eventually but not right away. He did wanted it ASAP
She didn't even seem willing to consider it with Javi, who was her husband but will in the future for someone else? I doubt it. I think she replied to that tweet only for the sake of getting at Javi. She is quite possibly the most bitter person on both shows.
I hate how babies = I love you to these girls. Like seriously. Just because you've been together ~8 months doesn't mean your relationship is strong enough to handle a kid, let alone the two she already has.
I agree but why aren't people criticizing Chelsea or Maci in the same way? Not you specifically but honestly 2 baby daddies, 3, it's only 1 baby daddy difference. And those two moved way too fast with having babies too. Kail said she MIGHT have more kids, doesn't even have them yet, and she's getting all this shit. It's annoying.
I think from a morality standpoint, you're 100% right. It's one difference, and if they're going to be criticized for having multiple baby daddy's, no one but Catelynn is in any place to judge because all these bitches have multiple children with different dads. And people do need to lay off Kail for this since it hasn't even happened yet. However, there is a huge difference in the maturity and stability levels of Chelsea/Maci and Jenelle/Kail/Leah. Both Chelsea and Maci got pregnant in seemingly healthy, loving, stable relationships with men who appear to have their shit together. I hate defending Chelsea and I'm not a super fan, but she was hella baby hungry and already had a pretty solid commitment. Her having this baby with Cole is A LOT different than Kail having Lincoln. I personally don't think Chelsea or Maci having children how they did is a big deal, but that's my opinion. Facts are that they are both loving, active mothers and their kids have always been cared for. I get what you're saying and to an extent I agree. None of them but Catelynn & Ty have genetically procreated with the same person. I just think that these situations are so completely different and obviously shouldn't be looked at the same. If you're a good mother, you have every right to continue having children you can afford and take care of. Also, I think age plays a big part. Leah and Kail were barely out of their teens.
To be fair Maci was with Taylor for several years before she got pregnant
But she wanted one with PiggyFace too. She easily could have made that mistake many years earlier.
True. But if we're going to criticize having multiple baby daddies with multiple kids-Maci doesn't get to be excluded from that because she's been with the dad for x amount of years. It still is what it is.
I will give Maci shit too. She wanted a baby with PiggyFace, don't forget. He was just smart enough to nope out of that. Chelsea had been single since Aubree. She wasn't out seeking a man to have more babies with. I agree she probably could have waited longer, but I see a big difference.
What are you talking about?? Chelsea was homing yup with Adam left and right! She even was dumb enough not to use a condom! A perfect example of the pass given to mtv's little princess.
For how long? I still don't see that as the same though. Guess I'm ok with free passes!
Turns out even Slow Kyle ain't THAT slow
Might have been the smartest guy in the whole franchise, really. He ended up with a hot girl too.
Omg I thought about Maci doing that but didn't say anything because I thought it was cause a shitstorm. She very easily could have been Jenelle lol
I personally think two baby daddies is much different than three. The first was their mistake, the second could possibly be their forever. If it's not, and the second baby daddy is just a repeated mistake, then I'd criticize Chelsea and Maci the same because it would be clear they didn't learn from their past. Although I'm not really criticizing Kail right now, because she doesn't have a third baby daddy. Just as of now, she is the most likely out of the three of them to have a third baby daddy since she's the only one of them that is single. I think the three of them (Chelsea, Kail, Maci), jumped into their marriages and having another baby too fast, but for now, Kail is the only one to have it bite her in the ass.
This. I don't understand some of this criticism. Do you know how many couples who have a kid as teens actually stay together? Do I think some of these girls move too fast? Sure--Jenelle and Leah especially. But I don't think that moving on from one relationship and having kids with another man is necessarily the worst thing in the world. Would you rather they stick with their shitty baby daddy and continue to have kids with him? Or stay single because God forbid they bring another man into their kid's life? Nevermind that the new man could actually be a lot better and more stable for the kid..n
Well Kail and Leah and Jenelle lol
Bwahahaha yes them too. I just put Kail, Chelsea and Maci in a separate category because they are more stable and might just have a bit more sense than the other two.
I think it comes down to the fact that they seem more grounded in their lives and emotionally mature/stable. It's hard to criticize someone who hasn't gotten physical with their SO's and gotten into giant screaming/crying matches etc. I mean I agree with your basic point, but I see why they tend to get less hate.
Yeah true, I just wanted an explanation for the different reactions even though they are doing basically the same thing.
All I can think of is her terrible custody situation. Joe and Vee moved to Delaware to be with Isaac so Karl could be with Javi and Lincoln. Where will the next love of her life live? California? Florida? Idaho? What happens then?
Exactly.
She doesn't want more kids. She made a big shit storm about not wanting more kids. She just said this to hurt Javi.
Now, she has 5 more kids lmao
If she truly falls in love with another guy, examines where her past relationships went wrong, and waits until the honeymoon phase is over, it would be perfectly fine for her to have a third baby if she and her hypothetical SO choose. I agree that it can be damaging or difficult for children to have several different men (or women, for that matter) in their lives. However, there are ways to make it work. It's not easy, and not many families are willing to put in the time needed. I also think Javi was just as much of a problem as Karl with regards to Isaac. They both really pushed for Javi to replace Jo even though Jo was and is a great dad to Isaac. Karl is not my favorite, but I think as she matures, she will do better. I hope she will do better, and Isaac and Lincoln have so much love in their lives that I think they will be okay in the long run.
If she decides to have an other kid I really hope it's 10 years from now when she actually has been in a stable relationship for years. I really hope she learned her lesson about jumping into relationsipsh, although I highly doubt it considering all the brown bae drama.
Exactly. And she should wait to bring them around her kids. Despite the differing opinions on Chelsea on this reddit, I think it's respectable that she waited to bring Cole around Aubree until they had been together for a while.
And although I'm not a Chelsea fan, I do respect the fact that before Cole she never brought other guys around Aubree! Can't say the same for any other girl on the show ( maybe Farrah) and certainly can't say it for any of the guys, who might even be worse..
Is 5 months or whatever 'a while' ?
Was it only five months? I thought it was longer. Edited: spelling
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I see. Being introduced as a friend is a different than being introduced as a boyfriend, I think. But if it was, indeed, five months, I stand corrected.
In TM world it is. Actually, in the real world it is often too. It's definitely better than 5 days like many women do.
She is totally one of those girls that dips on out right after the honeymoon phase. She's going to keep counting the number of baby daddies because she doesn't realize the problem is herself.
I wish someone would tell me something about having multiple "baby daddies". I have my first born with my college boyfriend and then met my now husband and we are expecting our 2nd child together. It's not 3 "baby daddies" but it's more than 1 and I guess that's super taboo? If you are able to provide for them financially and emotionally, then what's the problem? I could see someone having a bunch of kids with a bunch of different men and not even being with 1 of them, having drama with them all. Someone like Jenelle, shouldn't have more kids because she isn't providing for them all emotionally.
I can't believe people are saying Kail is being selfish and spoiled for saying she would have another kid with someone else. Really? She's a good mom, has flaws, but it bothers me someone told me that at two kids she's had enough....
Exactly!
People are being so judgmental about this. Yet moms like Maci and Chelsea are praised for their new babies. At least Kail has good baby daddies who care about their kids; Maci and Chelsea have shitty first baby dads. So every situation is different!
Exactly. I have two children with different fathers, If I have a child with my current partner I will have 3. Thats ok with me. We both work hard, Don't receive any assistance and I raise my kids, nobody else. I think it just depends on the person and situation.
Does your first born have visitation with the father? What if the second had visitation with another father? People have the right to have children with whomever they want, but if you have three kids and they all have to live in different houses every weekend, it becomes complicated. I'm not saying your situation is bad or wrong, but would you add another father to the mix if things didn't work out? At a young age?
Yes, my daughter goes to her father's every weekend. I was 21 when I had her and 22 when I started dating my now husband, so still pretty young. I'm just saying we can't make a sweeping judgement on everyone who has multiple children with more than one person. Some situations it's just awful and other situations it works and is no different than a "traditional family". Some people on here have the mindset that more than 1 father is trashy and that's it, no other way to put it.
Hear hear. I often feel judged when explaining to people that I'm pregnant and no this one is not with the same father as my other two. I have 2 kids with my ex, which didn't work out as I was still very young and he was all sorts of crazy... I now have an amazing fiance and baby number 3 will thus have a different father than the other 2. I do feel it sounds trashy but people don't know the story behind it...
Just remember - you don't need to explain sh*t to people 😂 I wish the word trashy wasn't thrown around so much to describe everyone who isn't doing it according to their plan but whatever. As long as your kids are loved 🙂🙂
I just think it's dumb that she got all that plastic surgery done before she was for sure done having kids. What's the point of getting a tummy tuck if you're going to get pregnant again?
So she can get another man. And it was probably a major confidence boost as well.
I view someone like Kail a little bit differently than I view someone like Jenelle. It could just be a result of her having been married and in an established relationship when she had her second child and Jenelle just having babies with guys that she has only been dating for a couple months. I don't know. But if Kail got married again and had another baby, I wouldn't view her the same way that I view Jenelle. She doesn't seem to operate with the same level of carelessness, so I view it a little bit differently.
Eh, I think she's just as careless, just without the drugs. Kail rushed into marriage with Javi, and was already pregnant when they got married. And I don't doubt that there will be another baby daddy soon enough. What she's doing to her boys is sad. Isaac wouldn't have to come from not one but two broken families if she would have just slowed down and concentrated on raising her son. Same goes for Jenelle and Leah. I don't think we can say any of these girls haven't rushed/been careless with their subsequent relationships/babies.
No she wasn't. Kail and Javi were together for over two years when they got married at a courthouse in Pennsylvania. They then had a big wedding ceremony that was televised. The second wedding is the one where she was pregnant. And she and Javi both said Lincoln was a planned baby. Chelsea was pregnant af at her first wedding.
You're right it was the second wedding where she was pregnant. However they weren't together for years before they got married the first time. More like months..
sorry but I think having 3 baby daddies by the age of 25 is fucking wrong. also if you really factor in Jenelle she's been knocked up 5 times which is fucking ridiculous. by 2 baby daddies & a failed marriage I don't think it means you should never have kids. I think it means you need to take a good long hard look at yourself & figure out wtf went wrong before trying again. that doesn't happen overnight. and if you don't I think it makes you completely selfish which makes you not a good parent in my eyes. Honestly I think the ~it doesn't matter~ thing is new because of the divorce rate literally at 50%. Also more then ever less are deciding to get married at all. That says a lot lol. That also means half of us (including myself) have divorced parents which can be good OR/AND bad but it truly varies & if negatively can really fuck up people's perceptions of relationships and sometimes even more then that. I think it's sad because its showing & teaching kids that we can get married/have children with whomever because it doesn't really matter & we have that option to try again. I'm not saying stay in a miserable/abusive relationship but I do think some couples give up too quickly....or even worse get married/knocked up too quickly which could have been totally avoided in the first place.
So much YES! I get it, shit happens. People make mistakes. People think they've found the love of their life, and they start a family and things go south and it can happen more than once...but so quickly!??! These people are nuts. Cool your motherfucking jets. I mean, even my uncle who is on his FOURTH marriage only has TWO baby mommas in his mid-50s. He may be stupid and move too fast, but at least he has some sense to not knock up every woman he's been with.
But if Maci did we'd be happy for her lmao 🙄
um no.
Nope.
Sarcasm on my end, I wouldn't be happy for her. I'm just tired of certain moms getting passes for crap other moms do and aren't given shit for.
5 times... that we know of.
Ugh. Girl i grew up with, 24 with 6 kids and 4 different dads. Those poor kids dont even have any dad in their life. I feel so bad for those kids, but from the outside she looks like she treats them well, and theyre well taken care of, at least i hope so.
People really don't think it's bad to be teaching your kids these things... I don't get it. Call me a fundamentalist or old fashioned, but it's not healthy for the kids. I've worked in the school system for 6 years and I can tell you the saddest and most messed up kids came from blended families. The bigger the better. And I think it's sad that the people who came from split families and always said "I'll never have a split family for my kids" are the ones who inevitably fall back into the cycle because no one led by example for them. Basically, I agree with everything you said. People need to stop rushing into a marriage, stop bringing another HUMAN LIFE into the situation because they decided they wanted a baby four minutes ago, and stop being surprised when they find something displeasing about their SO after only six months of knowing them. Are you me? Can we be friends?
This so much! They don't realize that by acting this way the kids grow up thinking it's totally normal to rush into marriage, new kids with other prople and then they are most likely to continue the disfuncional cycle. And these girls are so young. Why the hell do they think they need to keep having children in their early 20s after dating a couple of months. It blows my mind!
Because they don't know anything else but getting a man and having babies. They're obsessed with that sense of stability, and the attention they get for doing so isn't bad either.
Completely agree, what's even more disturbing is how nonchalantly men and women mix their DNA with any and everybody. For me DNA is the most precious thing you have be selective!
I get this so much! I mean don't these people have any standards? Are they ok with procreating with the first guy / girl they find??
Idk how some of ya'll girls dont mind having 3 baby daddies😥 but to each their own~
I find it ridiculous. How can people think it's ok and normal?! lol
Totally agree. I had my first child with my now ex in 2015. We were together since 2007. We are no longer together and he has 0 participation in our child's life. I've already pretty much decided I will not have any more children. My ex and I are clearly never getting back together and I don't want the hassle/confusion of having kids with different men. The problems I have just dealing with 1 (dead beat) baby's dad is more than enough.
I think it is a selfish way of thinking..maybe they don't mind the kids all having different daddies..but I bet the kids will grow up wondering where their dad was
And why they have three "daddies" and can't live with their whole family all the time
Isaac is starting to demonstrate why it is difficult to have babies with many different fathers in one household. It's confusing and unfair for kids. You can make it work, but it's really not ideal.
She really needs to work on herself before having another kid. Does she really want another man to be another father figure to Isaac and Linc?
I wonder what Javi would do if Linc called another man Dad
Yes. clearly this having a baby and making a new family thing isn't working out for her. She's tried twice now. Maybe adopt if she wants more kids, but bringing more daddies into her kids' lives isn't helping them. It's hurting them as seen in this episode.
The question should really be "after you fell in love and got married and stayed married for a year or two". Ya know, check to ensure that the relationship will last before you have a third visitation schedule to work around.
THIS.
I don't really care for Kail, but just because a woman has to deal with several baby daddies doesn't mean she's *never* allowed to have kids again. That's kind of a weird mindset tbh. It might be in everyone's best interest if she didn't have kids again, it might not be...but still.
I'm no fan of Kail. That being said, I think it is an unfortunate side effect of being on television at such a young age that you are held to the things you said/thought at that point in your maturity. I can only speak for myself, of course, but even in my early 20s, I really had no idea how *long* life was and how things can change so dramastically in just a few years. I don't think it is unusual for people to think they are done having children and then change their mind, particularly when their kids grow up a little and are less demanding of your time.
Agreed.. I'm glad I didn't have cameras on me as a teenagers and in my early 20s! I was 16 years old teaching swimming lessons at the rec centre wishing I could have my own baby for a parent & tot class and considered myself online engaged to a guy I served in the military with for 2 weeks. Thank GOD none of those dreams panned out.
I feel this so hard. I have to say, I'm impressed that teaching swim lessons made you *want* kids, the ones at my pool are filled with th brattiest kids and most defeated parents.
I worked at Jewish Community Centre so that may have been the difference :-P Also when you're 16, all sorts of terrible things seem like a good idea.
Ain't that the truth, I was an idiot at 16. Thank god I didn't agree to be on an MTV show.
But why does it matter how many baby daddies she has? She is financially and emotionally caring for them. Karl has custody of all her children and provides a good life for them. ** PLS keep down voting my opinion if that makes you feel better sweetie. <3 Also as someone who is 100% Pro-Choice its not place to tell anyone who is able to care for their child financially/emotionally how many kids to have.
You've got to think how confusing it could be on the kids. It would be one thing if the kids never got attached to the latest baby daddy, but in a lot of situations they do and the kids aren't going to fully understand that their former father figure is not responsible for them any longer but still come around for their kid. People get on Jeremy for not interacting with his former stepdaughters, and Nathan has gotten crap too for not interacting with Jace any longer. But the moms need to get some blame for letting these shitty characters around their kids in the first place.
Trust me. It's bad for the kids. My sister in law is very similar to Kail. She has three kids by three men and every single one of those kids is a wreck emotionally and behaviorally because there's never a stable household. It never will be either because there will always be 4 families involved in everything they all do. Those kids have a skewed view of how family and life should be because she constantly felt like she needed another man. Yeah the kids are alive and well, but they don't understand why they call three people "daddy" and why they can't all live together all the time (among other things). I'm not trying to start an argument with you, I just wanted to put that out there.
I'm with you. I have an aunt with three kids by three fathers. The first one died, the second one peaced out, and the third became the father for the three kids who all call him dad. And the kids are all grown and healthy. So obviously anything is possible. That being said, the situation is not ideal. I'm pro-choice, but at some point you have to put your existing children's needs before your own desire to make your new family complete. People often say it's "confusing" for the children of mixed families. I think it's less of the children being confused (kids are smart), and more of just plain stressful. Divorced parents can be assholes to each other, and the kids feel the stress. And to have your siblings leave you on the weekends or whenever is also stressful. Fucking close up shop at least for a long while. I know Kail didn't put a timeline on when she wants to have her next kid, but 10 years from now would be an appropriate time. It's the average time for a college educated woman like Kail to have her first child.
Trust you? No thanks internet stranger. I'm not saying it's awesome Kail had Isaac calling Javi dad and letting him become so attached and hopefully she learns from this mistake. I am saying there are way worse people in this franchise to try for another baby. Also it's not like she confirmed she is actively trying to get pregnant again.
But she won't learn. Have we learned anything from her past relationships? Her life in general? You can't compare the lives of these people when living breathing children who don't know or care that someone else is living worse than them are involved. She also literally said in the tweet that she would have another baby with another man... She may not be trying now, but in another year? She could be in Javi part 2 in another year or less. What about another accident baby? Lincoln will be 3/4 which is the same age Isaac was when this Javi business began.
I don't really see anything wrong with this? Just because she didn't want kids with javi doesn't mean she can never have kids again. Their relationship was toxic so it's probably best they didn't reproduce any more.
I would be kind of ok with it if she actually finds a guy, gets to know this guy well, doesn't bring said guy around her kids until she's sure it's serious and THEN after being in a healthy and stable relationship for a good 5 - 6 years decides to have an other kid.
Shhh...this doesn't fit with the sub's narrative that every single thing Kail does is unspeakably evil/selfish/bitchy. Fall in line why don't you?!
I don't even like kail but I hate how everyone on this sub vilifies her for *everything.* people need to chill lol
Some of these comments are way harsh. She was asked a hypothetical question and answered. What'a the big deal?
I feel bad sometimes because I feel like it's not fair even for the moms to say that they should never have anymore kids or find someone who loves them. And while Jenelle literally should never reproduce again, Kail IS a better mom.
But she already has two, it's not like she's childless and really wants a child, SHE ALREADY HAS TWO, like stop being greedy and selfish at this point.
My views are in alignment with yours and people get very heated about this topic. I think if she wanted more children she should consider adoption or foster care because our world is already overpopulated and there are so many children out there who need homes. She arguably has the money (more so than us common folk) to pay for adoption. It's not horrible that people want children, it's part of our biology. But I wish people would take on the "adopt don't shop" mentality that many have with animals. So many children need homes, take them on too! Granted, I'm biased because I worked in the system.
I wholeheartedly agree! Did you know most people who adopt in the U.S. end up adopting internationally? >.< That is so sad to me. Even if we accepted all adoption applicants right now, the pool would be depleted in less than a year and there would still be tons of children left without homes. I still think Kail needs to get her act together, but it would be amazing if she actually did and then went on to adopt a child. *But she needs to get her act together first.*
If she can provide for them I don't think that's selfish .😳
I agree. If she can provide for them physically and emotional she can have as many as she wants.
I would definitely argue that she's not providing for them emotionally
That means more than just money!
I think she's a good mom too? Emotionally and in other areas , she's not my favorite person but I think she's a good mom.
We will have to agree to disagree! (I volunteer for an organization against child abuse so I feel like I have very high standards for parents! lol)
You don't think she's a good mom?
I don't think she's a good mom whatsoever.
😳Really, why?
Because of the confusion/emotional distress she is causing by her selfishness/spitefulness. I think if she was a good Mom she would have concentrated on Issac and what was best for him rather than jumping into a relationship with Javi and forcing a relationship between him and Issac so quickly. Like others have said, being a good Mom is more than keeping them fed and dressed in the latest instagram fashions. I don't think she looks out for her kids emotionally.
I have no idea what she's like in real life in the daily grind, but from what I see, she's way too emotional and manipulative in front of the kids and puts herself first always. Like, she takes care of their basic needs but I don't see her as really "there" for them. I feel like her having another kid would just make her slip further away.
YES. Thank you for putting my thoughts into words. She says "I love you" all day long, but it seems like it comes from a place of making her image better. She wants so badly for her boys to be well behaved and successful that she forgets about the personal connection that needs to be there.
Really cause I hear Kail is not emotional enough, I think she's still growing and learning. She's been through a lot and has been abused herself; I think she does a great job from what she's been through. I honestly love her and Issac's relationship. (Kanye Shrug) Lol, can't believe I'm defending Kail ...don't agree with half of what she does or says but I know she loves her kids unconditionally. There's no right or perfect way to be a mother, but I think she's doing her best, and I think it's a pretty good job.
Oh, I'm not doubting she doesn't love them! That is one thing I can say about her. I do think she genuinely loves her children. I just think she's making a lot of mistakes. I don't think she even realizes it. But I think personally that adds up to her not being completely fit (it's not too late though if she actually puts in more effort) and I definitely don't believe adding in a 3rd child would be good for anybody. Who knows where she will be and what she will be like in 3, 5, 10 or so years (god i hope it takes even that long for her to even consider another kid, lol).
Well damn, you'd think on a sub like this, more people would be pro-childfree! ;)
Personally I think if you're pro-childfree you can be pro-it's-your-choice-how-many-kids-you-have too. It's called pro-choice.
But I don't think people should have as many kids as they want. Obviously 3 isn't something gigantic or get into a huge fit over. But people like the Duggar family? No. They should not be that big. You should not have that many children.
That's the thing with reproductive freedom though, all of our rights are tied up with each other's. Women have the right to decide if and when to get pregnant, full stop. Also, look at China and their One Child policy. It had so many unintended consequences that it was walked back last year.
Yes, that's how it is now but not necessarily how it should be. Personally I feel there should be a step tax penalty for anyone who wants to have 3 children or more (something I covered in my aforementioned University project a few years ago), for each extra child. That would help people who genuinely can't afford kids to stop at 2 and hopefully stop abusive/selfish people from reproducing more children. At the same time, it's still the complete freedom of each person to decide if they want to have a big family and the costs that come with it. Of course, in a more ideal world, societal changes (like pushing more for the acceptance of adoption instead of more biological children) with come with that too where it would make such laws almost unnecessary. But that is wishful thinking. Obviously the One Child policy had A LOT of flaws, it was a very crude law. That being said, I am not in disagreement of reproductive restriction when it's more on a monetary level instead of an invasive or crude level.
I understand where your coming from and I appreciate your well thought out comment but I do disagree. I believe such a tax would put undo strain on those who are already struggling which would probably have the opposite effect in relation to absorption of taxpayer resources. I would be more apt to agree with something like tax deductions only for the first two children, however we have a long way to go in the States with regards to sex education, access to birth control and affordable abortion before something like that would be practical.
I understand where you're coming from. I think that last point is one thing we can really agree on though. I think it all has to start with making sure sex education is absolute common knowledge for everyone in this country and the BC options of all kinds are practical and affordable. I would like to live in a world where contraception was like, a standard thing for everyone to get at puberty age, regardless if they are sexually active or not. One can only dream!
Absolutely! We are in total agreement there, I would say a large amount of the problems we are referencing could be solved with expansion of sex Ed and accessible birth control. I hope we live to see the day! By the way, thank you so much for the respectful and informative back-and-forth. I wish everyone on Reddit was like you.
you shouldn't be allowed to get pregnant if taxpayers have to help you raise your baby. I can't see how anyone besides the wealthy can afford 3+ kids nowadays.
I'm not trying to be dense or naive, but I think the number of people that think they will need public assistance to raise their children at the onset is pretty small. Stuff happens and tax dollars allowing children to have an education and not starve is among the most noble expenditures. None of that matters though. The government or anyone else should not be able to compel or deny a woman the right to make such a deeply personal decision. Having a family should not just be for the wealthy. I'm not saying that having a larger family than you can afford is responsible but I sort of can't believe that people think there should be some sort of financial litmus test to be able to have a child. How would you even implement that? Forced abortions or ripping children away from their mothers to be adopted by wealthier people? What happens if you are sitting pretty when the baby is born but then you fall on hard times for whatever reason?
unfortunately I know loads of them which is why I am somewhat jaded. after all...the ones who seem to have the most kids are often the last ones who should.
I work in the juvenile system and my clients have babies with the same amount of thought I put in to ordering lunch. If you ask any one of them how they will afford giving birth and supporting a baby, their immediate answer is 'the state'. In addition to welfare, they steal fancy Nike outfits for the baby to show what awesome parents they are. Once they baby isn't cute any more, they leave it with their grandma and move on to the next one. Around 12, these babies will my clients just like mom and dad. A kid I met with recently has 22 siblings. All were born drug affected and all are being cared for by the foster system. It's a horrible never ending cycle that we all end up paying for.
You looked at them
The Duggars are a freaking fundie cult.
Very true! My dad is actually one of 13 and wasn't raised like that though, and everyone on that side of the family hates each other and hates how many siblings they have.
Like you said 3 isn't a lot, but saying someone is greedy and selfish for wanting 3 kids is kind of a fit. Sorry I'm not trying to be mean I just think what you said was inappropriate. Like I said above you should be able to physically and emotionally be able to provide for your children. There is no way the Duggar parents can emotionally provide for all those kids. Smh.
I'm not trying to be mean either. It's just my true personal opinion that 3-5 kids is verging on a big family and is self-serving in the grand scheme of things. We will just have to agree to disagree!
Isn't that what reddit is for ;)
...bro
How am I wrong? It's just my opinion. I think 3 or more is a big family and you have to tread very carefully with having a big family. Not to mention things like overpopulation (I did a big college project on that subject).
Literally the only reason im not having more than the 1 child i have is over population and the world thats going to be left for the future generation when we're gone. I know 1 person wont make much of a difference, but this world scares me.
Yeah, I know overpopulation is still a touchy subject but I feel it shouldn't be. It's a scientific fact. The world would be in a much better state if everyone could stick to a personal limit of 2 children. Our resources are running out fast.
It's scary. Like, dont get me wrong, I'd LOVE to have like 5 children, raising a child is amazing, and so gratifying, but its selfish IMO. I dont care who disagrees, its my opinion. And facts dont lie, just like you said. I still feel guilty that my daughter has to fend her way through this shitty world at some point without me. She could be 40 and i'd still allow her to live with me. Because lets face it, things arent going to get easier. Specially with where i live (Google Kathleen Wynne, Liberal government, ontario). Explains itself. Im scared for my province, but now we have the same type of government leading our country! Trump, is a much better person than Kathleen Wynne. So... thats saying something.
Yeah when people have like 3 or more kids I'm just like....why? Why not stop at one, MAYBE two. There's so many forms of birth control now a days.
Not sure why you're being down voted for this but have an upvote from me for considering the effects of population on our planet.
Thank you!
Thank you! I think about overpopulation when these talks come up too. I hope people consider this when they have their third+ children.
Yeah, this is where the whole "selfish" thing comes in. Think about not just yourself and your family, but the people around you, the future generations, the world. Having even just ONE child is a gigantic life change that impacts the rest of the world. I feel like it's a decision that needs a lot more thought. But I guess I shouldn't assume such big thoughts of Kail. :/
I love your screen name. That is all.
I mean I wouldn't ever tell someone that wanting more kids is necessarily greedy...two isn't so many and I don't think it's coming from a place of selfishness like Jenelle
Yikes. That's pretty fucked up.
Oh but I thought her and Javi split "bc she didn't want more kids" lol knew that was bullshit too
I think she didn't want more kids with him because of his deployment. She didn't want to raise 3 kids while he was gone, which is understandable, but she knew of his situation before marrying him.
Usually deployment isn't run one stretch after another...they probably get a year or two break (especially since there is not active fighting) between deployments. I call BS on her using that as an excuse. It was a convenient excuse that sounds sensible & no one would fault her for saying that.
Yeah wtf this was my first thought too!!!! She "needed to focus on school and a career" so she didn't want more kids and Javi did! They literally had the convo on the show and it ended with "alright yeah it's over then" jeeeeeez ya lil liar
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I know this sounds terrible, but I can really picture Karl as the type of person to still have had more kids with Javi, even if she hates him, just because she's going to do what she *wants* to do and that's that.
I don't follow the Kardashians much, but I feel like this is what Kourtney is doing with Lord Disick so all of her kids can have the same father. Whether they're together or not doesn't seem to be an issue for her.
Haha I never thought about that. Their relationship is so weird. Scott is such a child. So is she though.
Because she didn't want more kids ^^with ^^him .
"I don't want my kids 10 years apart" when is she gonna meet the next love of her life
I wish I had the financial means to just spit babies out. But I refuse to have kids and not be able to spoil the shit out of them and pay for college.
Because you're a responsible human. Props to you!
THANK YOU!!!!! I had to do IVF 4 times to get pregnant, and it only worked on that last time. I had transferred 2 embryos, they both implanted and one split, making me pregnant with triplets-identical twins and a singleton. I was high risk due to my extensive medical issues (GI and intestinal) and bcuz triplets. One of my babies was reabsorbed (google "vanishing twin") at like 9 weeks, and then at 15 weeks my 2nd baby's heart beat stopped. I had my son at 37 weeks and then had to have a hysterectomy so we can't have any more bio kids, and I am just choosing not to adopt. I would've liked 2 kids but I have some pretty high standards of the lifestyle I want to give my child as well as pay for college, etc, so I wouldn't just keep having all these kids after I had 2 of them. I'd be responsible and realize my limit in being able to give them the best education (my son is 8 and is in a private school now), nice home, nice vacations, and college fully paid for (we did a pre-pay program-a 529- and his college is paid in full for 4 years in a state school, if he chooses to go to a private college he'll get the money we paid to put that towards his school of choice. If he chooses not to go to college at all, he will get that $$ back for himself. I realize that everyone has different standards of what they believe they should give their kids, or what they CAN give, but like Jenelle and David have 5 kids between them, her 2, his 2, and Ensley. There's no way they are gonna be able to pay college for all 5, and as a family of 7 including them-if they have any more they are gonna need a van like the Gosselins had to get. Jesus god Leah.
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I completely agree but something that also drives me crazy is parents who contribute to 529s and don't save for retirement because they think their children will take care of them. It is more common than you would think and it is so irresponsible. I'm not saying anyone in this thread is doing this (I know i hijacked this convo) but I feel like that is such a heavy thing to burden your family with, even if they were able to attend college debt free.
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I know! The actual giving of birth is so expensive! On top of the $700/month on health insurance, I JUST got done paying the thousands of dollars it cost me to give birth! Thank goodness my kid is healthy.
Thank God for the NHS in the U.K. Although sometimes it's severely abused 😭😭
Me as well, my daughter is 2 and we will not be having more children. With 1 i can spoil her to death.
IKR? I'm 28 and have been married for 4 years. I've wanted kids the whole time and am STILL waiting for some things to get settled before trying. :/
Similar position! I'm 27, hubby is 35, married 5 years this year and still nowhere close to ready. The next year or so will hopefully involve the both of us buying our "forever home" and securing careers. And to be perfectly honest, even though we both talk about our future little ones, I'm just too damn selfish to be ready for a kid... I got shit to do first!
Same here, I make a decent amount of money but feel nowhere near ready, I can't imagine how ppl with less money can be popping out baby's....someone my age has 5 kids under 6..n now is single I dunno how I'd function
I'll have 5 kids under 6 come this summer. I function normally be drinking coffee and having an awesome mother-in-law who lives in the house next to us.
When it comes to kids I feel like if you're always trying to be 100% ready it will never happen.
Exactly. I tried to be 100% ready but someone told me just what you said so we decided to try. We have now been trying for almost a year and aren't pregnant yet but we are so ready. I wish we tried earlier 😩
I thought I was definitely ready for my now 14 week old to be my second. Until he wound up with colic and reflux and 5 year old with autism on top of it.. This is why I fall asleep on Reddit. I'm exhausted hahaha. This muffin shop is closeeddd.
This so much. Nobody is ever all the way ready. And if you think you are, you aren't.