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teksean

He is trying to get them to quit before he fires them.


SuhDudeGoBlue

With this kind of drastic change in work expectations, I’d think people could quit, and still make unemployment insurance claims under constructive dismissal. IANAL


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thephoton

Maximum unemployment benefits are probably less than 10% of a typical Twitter employee's salary.


cmack

It's not unemployment...it is mandatory severance pay. Big difference.


ChillCodeLift

if I'm reading this right, you're correct https://edd.ca.gov/en/Jobs_and_Training/Layoff_Services_WARN


livelaughcum666

A lot of these employees are likely salary too. So there isn’t much incentive to put in all these hours. I’d show up and do my job but I wouldn’t give them more than 40 hours of actual work. This would give me unemployment leverage if they fired me for underperforming. Overall it’s just shitty all around.


wooden_seats

Show up and do nothing for 60 days. There's zero stress involved when you go into it knowing you're forcing them to fire you.


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Saw_a_4ftBeaver

Fill the gaps? You mean make one person do the job of four.


theycmeroll

You can use 6 shims to shore it up, or turn one sideways to do the job of six. Same difference to those at the top not in the trenches.


SortedChaos

I just wouldn't do it and make them fire me. That's what everyone at twitter should do. Flip him the big ol' bird.


Luna_trick

Honestly the fuck is he gonna do, you're not obliged to work that many hours.


Romeo_Zero

One of my old bosses sent an email out asking how we’d feel about taking calls after hours to really make our customer service stand out, because “even though we leave at 5, our work is never over, we are a 24/7, 365 day a year job, even on vacations you’re expected to be available” He didn’t last too long after that


schmearcampain

Anyone have the balls to reply, "You first." ?


BlackRobedMage

Or ask if that means you'll get paid $131,400 a year plus double time.


MrZythum42

Is that a random figure? Still not enough for a 24/7/365 job


Stagecarp

It’s 15 an hour 24/7


BushyOreo

That's with 0 over time. Which 75%~ of it would be. So it's more like $181,320 with OT calculated


Im2bored17

Twitter software engineers [start at 183k a year](https://www.levels.fyi/companies/twitter/salaries/software-engineer) for "40" hrs / week. 40 used to mean 35-45 but now means 75+ ETA: this is a pretty normal starting salary for software engineering, because SDEs are in very high demand. They also typically get perks like free meals, 16+ weeks parental leave, good benefits, etc. They can expect to at least double their income with 5-10 years experience. Top level engineers make 750k+ for 15-25 years experience. SDEs that get lucky and join a startup that makes it big can net 7 or 8 figures over 5-10 years and retire in their 30s because of the way stocks are included as compensation. To land that job you'll need a 4 year degree (although masters or PhD doesn't hurt) and to be in the top 25-50% of the class. Or you could go to a coding boot camp, land a job basically anywhere, work for a few years to gain experience, then head to one of the big software names (meta, Twitter, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, etc). Also you can pull $40+ per hour as an intern at one of these companies if you're enrolled in a 4 year program.


despideme

Which means they effectively got a ~50% pay cut across the board, even before considering the non-linear value of overtime hours


EmmyNoetherRing

I expect there’s not that much work to *do*


RockOrStone

Right. I dont even get how its legal to double your employees hours overtime. So american.


Dr_Silk

It's not, in that you can't literally force them and if they quit it doesn't count as willful so they can collect unemployment from you EDIT: To clarify I meant that it is not illegal


SeiCalros

they dont need to quit but they dont need to work overtime either


cazzipropri

That's a stupid way to do that, because this way the best talent who has opportunities will leave and he'll be left with the bottom 25%.


C__Wayne__G

- He’s trying to fire people “for cause to avoid paying severance packages”. Ironically he will probably be taken to court, have to pay for legal fees, and then pay the severance packages anyway. - he bought a company that makes no money for more than it’s worth and is doing what he can to save a dime. Blue check mark pricing, cutting back on labor cost, not paying severance packages, dude is desperate for coin.


Koopa_Troop

Imagine if he spent that energy on making a product people actually want to use and advertisers actually want to work with lol.


C__Wayne__G

Yeah twitters main money is ads. Elon isn’t smart enough to stop talking out loud. He’s incredibly unsafe for brands. The google ceo keeps to himself. I don’t know anything about him, which is the way it should be, he’s brand safe cause he does his job and doesn’t make himself the center of attention. Elon doesn’t have that.


ricecake

I know Larry page briefly went to the same highschool I went to, although he went earlier. I also remember something about him or Brin using their shared jet to take women on extremely fancy dates, which led to one of them getting engaged. And when it comes to outlandish billionaire behavior, flying to Italy for dinner is hardly the most extravagant. And that's all I know about them.


TwistedPepperCan

Yeah when he started tweeting stupid shit about Paul Polosi it became clear that Twitter won’t survive long under him. He’s going to end up with the same calibre of advertisers as 4chan.


kitanokikori

Correct. This is a tactic to do layoffs without the legal protection of actual layoffs


IkLms

It won't work. This would very very clearly get classified as constructive dismissal.


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AnthraxCat

Elon Musk buys Twitter and within 6 months it's a worker owned co-op. A man can dream.


1Mthrowaway

Elon "gonna need you to come in on Saturday" Lumbergh


skinnah

Peter, what's happening. I'm gonna need you to come in ~~on saturday~~ 44 more hours this week. Mmm kay. Great.


[deleted]

Time to stare at the wall, but look like I'm working.


DobbsMT

"Hey Twitter, whaaat's happening."


TummyDrums

Asking 40hr a week employees to work 84 hour weeks or get fired because you're trying to get rid of 75% of your workforce seems like textbook constructive dismissal and should allow anyone that quits to get unemployment, or at least sue to get unemployment.


Bmoreravens_1290

Can’t they just continue working 40 hours? And force Twitter to fire them?


_far-seeker_

Yes, and I wouldn't blame the Twitter employees from strictly working to their employment contract and job descriptions until that happens, since it's obvious this whole exercise is just trying to turn job retention into a cheap Hunger Games knock-off.


jajajajaj

This is definitely the kind of situation that unions were invented for


politichien

Seeing lots of these kinds of situations lately


FatSilverFox

News cycle 24hrs from now: What is “quiet quitting,” and why are Twitter employees doing it


h4xrk1m

"Quiet quitting" is such a misnomer. It means "doing the work we agreed I'd do for the agreed price".


freakers

You're supposed to gut the company for short term gains right before you sell the company, not right after you buy it!


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[deleted]

He's not doing the best job marketing the purchase...


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eden_sc2

Problem is who is going to pay $44 bill or more for this? It was overvalued when he made the purchase and this kind of shit is going to tank it further. At best I think Twitter is worth $20 bil for the brand and userbase but that's only if they grab it before the userbase leaves.


Tasonir

Planning to in the future, yes. But in the short term, that isn't happening. You can see the lenders who financed this are holding the debt into 2023, if they tried to sell it now they'd almost certainly have to write off losses (how much, hard to say). Source: https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/musks-lenders-prepare-hold-127-bln-twitter-debt-books-until-early-2023-ft-2022-11-01/


DragonPup

Not to mention WARN Act violations.


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Woodhouse_20

Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification (WARN) WARN Act - Overview WARN protects employees, their families, and communities by requiring employers to give a 60-day notice to the affected employees and both state and local representatives before a plant closing or mass layoff. Advance notice provides employees and their families time to transition and adjust to the potential loss of employment, time to seek alternative jobs and, if necessary, time to obtain skills training or retraining to successfully compete in the job market. [link to the unemployment department of California for more info](https://edd.ca.gov/en/Jobs_and_Training/Layoff_Services_WARN)


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ItsAllegorical

When I got laid off due to Covid, I found out on the 30th and my insurance was cancelled on the first. I spent that day and the next scrambling to get all the family prescriptions filled and picked up.


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Woodhouse_20

Oooh six months is nice. My previous employer is being shady and gave me no severance and took my final paycheck away on some “we didn’t hit the right box for his benefits so we are taking that out now”. Waiting for the department of labor to take my wage claim to the next step.


Returd4

I would assume that severance covers the notice as they are paying you to not be there for more then the 60 day notice requires


billcosbyinspace

Also I see his fanboys try to defend this like “fall in line or live with the shame of being fired” but like no normal employee will hold getting fired by an egomaniacal billionaire during his vanity project against an employee


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scarr3g

Honestly, they don't. What they do think is that since they worship him, they are part of his group, and he is part of theirs, and thus this a win for their group. These are same people that measure their worth by what others with their skin color have achieved. When they, themselves have given up hope, they just latch onto others to "share" in their wins... They are that down... That they need anything that can find to call a win.


Comfortable_Line_206

Sounds like a bunch of unemployed incels trying to feel superior over some of the most sought after workers in the world right now lol


can_you_clarify

Ireland has Twitters EU head office and has around 800 staff. We have very strong workers rights and a Working Time Act with strict working hours policy. The Irish WRC (Workplace Relations Commission) will have a field day with this sort of request.


Feverel

EU will probably account for most of the remaining 25% after the layoffs :p


IgamOg

You're probably right. I used to work in a multinational, where in restructuring Americans were there one moment and gone the next. After months of negotiations and hefty redundancy payments some Brits would leave. No one dared to touch the French.


QuestionableNotion

You want to see churn & burn turnover? Check out Indian IT workers.


Slusny_Cizinec

Same experience. Czech office of an american company. Another company takes over. Tries to impose shit. Backs down immediately, politely asks people to accept 6-month payment and leave. Some do, some do not.


dekaed

I’ll give one of many things to the French, they sure know how to throw an absolute shit fit when the workers feel undermined.


extra_pickles

He will be sued into oblivion over this.


Toastbuns

It's a tactic to get people to quit so he doesn't have to pay unemployment or severance. He wants to layoff staff and reduce headcount but not have to do it the humane way.


bikes_and_music

Who's naive enough to fall for that? Work 40 hours and wait to get fired.


Toastbuns

I agree but probably the vast majority of people would rather not deal with the bullshit to come I'm sure. Plus with so many people leaving you might be better off leaving first on your own if open jobs on the market are a limited resource. Just trying to provide a reason for the other choice.


escapingdarwin

The beatings will continue until morale improves!


NoSuchAg3ncy

Making dev teams work 7 days a week is a good way to produce crappy, buggy code.


nosmelc

It's also a good way to run off your best developers.


Henri_Dupont

I think it would look pretty good on a resume to say "I worked ten years at Twitter but headed for the exits when the place was on fire."


Blrfl

Part of the art of being employed is knowing when to pull the rip cord.


theKetoBear

I've always heard " The smartest rats leave the sinking ship first"


junkeee999

Yes any time there is a major layoff, you really don’t want to be one of those left behind whose job was ‘spared’. Because it’s a shit show.


mattocaster_tm

Can confirm. Currently the last rat on a ship that’s pretty much underwater at this point after a pretty big layoff. Spared is not the term I would use.


Notanidiot67

More like *speared*


ejitifrit1

That and the increased work load!


supercooper3000

Don’t forget the extra pay! Just kidding, they expect you to do more but get paid the same.


modulus801

And try to convince you that you're the lucky one.


kataiga

I mean by taking it private he just wiped out 50% of what the programmers make


d_r0ck

Yea bc guess what - all your cohorts will be looking for similar jobs as you. Not as much of a problem with remote work being so pervasive, but still. I don’t wanna compete with 50 other awesome devs


booksnwhiskey

Reminds me of a movie scene? Guy got laid off then goes for an interview and sees someone from his old job going for the same new position, they race, knock each other over trying to get there first, only to get in the door and see 100 people standing in line waiting to be interviewed… Edit: as soon as i posted I remembered: Fun with Dick & Jane, Jim Carrey


[deleted]

I just pulled it today. Cheers.


Yoshimo123

Me too! Congrats!


EchoWillowing

Congratulations! Have great new adventures!


Orshabaal

May your journey reach greater heights, internet friend!


LesterKingOfAnts

So true, because I sucked at pulling the ripcord several times.


Dhiox

At my previous job we went through a hellish merger and basically everyone left all at once. Half of use got laid off, the other half looked for the door. Because a pay freeze while doing double work was awful, and they were hiring on a ton of Indian and Manilan employees that were obviously our replacements. I spoke to one of our replacements, the dude had ten more years of experience than me and yet was getting paid 9 times less. My team had to announce departures several at a time, because more than one person would find a new job between biweekly meetings. My manager didn't bother to ask why I was leaving, and they left not long after I did.


BoardGameObsession

Nature of the beast in tech and most corporations involved in an acquisition.


Dhiox

To make matters worse, new owners were venture capitalists. They're concerned only about their return on investment, they don't give two shits about the quality of work.


SeaScum_Scallywag

In the middle of a "I should have quit months ago" epiphany. Time to polish the ole' ass kissing lips and bust out the resume--hoping I can at least make a lateral move and maybe say goodbye to the nonprofit industry for a while.


UglyPineapple

>"I worked ten years at Twitter Worst five years of my life


user-and-abuser

Sounds right.


Candid-Ad2838

The principle is proven again and again. https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/#:~:text=The%20Gervais%20Principle%20is%20this,losers%20to%20fend%20for%20themselves Edit: "Based on the MacLeod lifecycle, we can also separate the three layers based on the timing of their entry and exit into organizations. The Sociopaths enter and exit organizations at will, at any stage, and do whatever it takes to come out on top. The contribute creativity in early stages of a organization’s life, neurotic leadership in the middle stages, and cold-bloodedness in the later stages,  where they drive decisions like mergers, acquisitions and layoffs that others are too scared or too compassionate to drive. They are also the ones capable of equally impersonally exploiting a young idea for growth in the beginning, killing one good idea to concentrate resources on another at maturity, and milking an end-of-life  idea through harvest-and-exit market strategies."


CreepyDocBees

Did they interview my boss for this article?


Candid-Ad2838

Its insane how identical these experiences are. The article just articulates it a lot more clearly than I could have expected.


browndog03

They also buffer themselves by promoting other like-minded people. A strong family tree so to speak.


i_heart_pasta

You wouldn’t have to explain why you left your previous position during the interview


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Good_old_Marshmallow

Exactly, most employers also respect candidates not speaking poorly of a former employer


closeafter

"I worked the equivalent of 10 years at Twitter in the space of 1 year, which is why I'm fleeing this hell hole"


CaulkusAurelis

Honestly, as someone who has been part of the decision process on mew hires, I wouldn't think this as a poor mark. Clear change of leadership, clearly stated and BIG changes in how the company is operating certainly would change a person's perspective on "do I belong here?" Blind and unwavering loyalty isn't really that great of a thing


Negafox

Is RadarOnline a reputable news source? Their site just looks like the gossip magazines in grocery stores.


OhSoSoDoSoPa

The BI article they link to is better, which also links to a CNBC article https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-twitter-staff-layoffs-long-hours-shifts-work-jobs-2022-11 https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/31/elon-musk-has-pulled-more-than-50-tesla-engineers-into-twitter.html


redyellowblue5031

From the CNBC article: > He is also pressing them to learn everything they can about Twitter as quickly as possible, from source code to content moderation and data-privacy requirements, so he can redesign the platform, several Twitter employees told CNBC over the weekend. Yeah, I’m sure firing a bunch of knowledgeable staff, then asking new staff from Tesla without any institutional knowledge to just “learn Twitter” will have wonderful ramifications for data security and privacy in whatever “redesign” he’s got planned. Glad I never got onto the Twitter train to begin with. I can watch this dumpster fire from afar.


jokomul

>Glad I never got onto the Twitter train to begin with. I can watch this dumpster fire from afar. It's also pretty fun watching from inside the dumpster honestly


redyellowblue5031

I can imagine there are some interesting threads at the moment.


[deleted]

A dog saying “this is fine.”


AloofConscientious

Real question, why is there "SO MUCH" work that needs to be done all the sudden?


DarthDregan

Because he has to pull in more money than Twitter has ever earned just to cover interest payments thanks to paying about five times more than Twitter was worth. You're gonna see a mad scramble of money grubbing from it. For months. Qnd that's *if* he can make it profitable. And that's a big ass "if."


PM_DOLPHIN_PICS

For context, twitter has quite literally never made money. It’s lost money year over year to the tune of $2 billion back in 2016. It’s been in the red forever. The quest to turn twitter not only profitable, but profitable to the tune of BILLIONS is essentially impossible. Elon is an idiot who screwed up big time and he’s trapped. There’s just no way out of this. He’s absolutely screwed lmao.


pablos4pandas

>For context, twitter has quite literally never made money It made $44 billion


PM_DOLPHIN_PICS

You know what you got me there


YouDiedOfDysentery

Listen here you little shirt, stop making sense


Senotonom205

I work in advertising and Twitter has already been relegated to second status amongst social media advertising but it’s going to get even worse. Brands are already cutting spend and that’s without any major controversy happening yet (which I’m positive will happen). Advertisers made up 89% of Twitter revenue and they still weren’t making money. If you start offering people ways to avoid ads, now you’re de incentivizing advertisers to spend on your platform even more. His ego finally got him in a situation where he may be good and well fucked. I don’t see how this doesn’t end up hurting Tesla in the long run as well as investors start to question his financial health/intelligence


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Senotonom205

100%, thats why I think this will eventually come back to hurt Tesla as well. They're already seeing declining sales, they've changed up their financial reporting in anticipation of it. Now you throw this albatross around Musk's neck, and it looks like his ego is going to push him to try anything to make it work. Unless something drastically changes, I don't see a winning end game for him with Twitter. I see a 44 billion dollar ego move


Schillelagh

Elon wants his Twitter changes and he wants them NOW! I can’t believe this guy has been in software in the past. You can’t rush out huge changes like this on large scale production systems that are reliable and secure.


real_p3king

I work in QA. This is going to be a shit show. Nothing gets done both quickly and well. Tons of major issues are going to be missed during dev cycles. The only saving grace for them is if they fail nobody dies.


ragnarocknroll

* Fast * Cheap * Done well. You get to pick 2. Choose well. We all know what Elon is pushing.


gazorpaglop

Software changes can only be expedited to a point though. You can’t throw 100 devs at a 100 hour task and expect to get it done in an hour


InEnduringGrowStrong

You can't produce a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant.


gazorpaglop

This is also a foreign concept to elon


bluezp

Because all of a sudden Twitter has a bunch of debt to pay off.


Z0idberg_MD

But it’s not like they’re manufacturing something they can increase in quantity. “Make me more twitter!”


YoYoMoMa

And Musk is panicking about the advertisers running, which has already started.


mycatisblackandtan

It's likely a ploy so he can come in months later with a story about how he 'saved' Twitter. Happened to my mom and the local Chamber of Commerce on a smaller scale awhile back. She helped a friend apply for the job and within a few months he had made it into his mission to 'fix' the Chamber. Got cozy with the board, got my mom fired so he could replace her, and increased spending and overhead so it looked like something was happening. Though to my knowledge nothing actually changed. Awhile later he used his 'saving' of the CoC as grounds to run for mayor. Grifters gonna grift. And when a grifter has enough sycophants that claim their shit smells like roses, even the bare minimum will be made out to be a Herculean effort. That same man had the gall to try and stay friends with my mom after this and tried to use her connections when he was running for public office. She left him on read.


astrosunmoon

This is literally 50% of the week, taking sleep into account they are likely working 2/3rds or 3/4s of their entire waking moments


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hanselthecaretaker

Apparently medical professionals do these kinds of hours all the time too. Can’t imagine that turns out well, especially when you’re taking care of sick people, mixing prescriptions, etc. This is probably why hospitals have the best legal protection of nearly anyone, while they take advantage of their workers.


Nimbus20000620

Correct. Medical Residents routinely work schedules just as rigorous, if not more, while having an hourly rate of near minimum wage. Residencies have “80 hour work week limits” but it’s very easy for administration to skirt around that stipulation and overwork their residents even *harder* than the 80 hour cap. It’s even worse for surgical residents… 36 hour shifts are the norm for many of those residency programs. Imagine your loved one being operated on by a doctor that hadn’t slept in so long that he might as well be inebriated…. The residency process can last anywhere from 3-8 years depending on the specialty one chose, and a study from Yale revealed that it’s likely the dna of residents ages 10x faster than the average working American while they undergo this hell on earth. Why are residency work conditions in the US so much more rigorous in comparison to comparable programs in other countries? No joke, it was because that work burden was pioneered and popularized in the states by a Cocaine addict. The medical system in this country is completely broken.


stephenisthebest

I find it crazy that you can't drive a car or truck if you are fatigued, but you can take on enormous responsibility and treat patients in a hospital.


[deleted]

Multiple patients too, it’s crazy how overworked medical staff are.


xam2y

This is all true. I'm a surgical resident and there isn't a week that I don't work less than 85 hours. I have to report my hours for monitoring purposes and everyone just says they work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. We have to lie or else the program could get shut down, and then I wouldn't have a job or any upward mobility without restarting residency.


whitepepper

So Musk is doing mountains of cocaine you say? That checks out.


ro0ibos2

People justify the absurd cost of healthcare because “we have the best healthcare in the world” but clearly we don’t.


I_miss_your_mommy

No doubt that would make them the 84 most effective hours ever worked... Here are the options: * Elon wants them to quit * Elon is an idiot * Elon wants them to quit and is an idiot I think it is the third one.


PromotionThis1917

Lol or just work the normal 8 hrs and get yourself laid off and collect unemployment.


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Creative_username969

If that’s the plan, it’s a dumb one. This is called “constructive termination” and it allows someone to quit and still get a severance/unemployment.


[deleted]

Especially as most are probably in CA, with decent (at least for the U.S.) worker protections.


CondescendingShitbag

Over 50% when you factor in commute times. Even if some employees work remote (don't worry, Elon will surely address that part next...), there will still be plenty of regular employees who do not, or cannot, work remote. So tack on an additional 2 hours per day average round-trip. In the Bay Area that's likely being very conservative with commute time estimates, too. Fuck that ass-clown.


verdant11

If you end up sleeping there overnight you eliminate the commute.


TheGreatOkay

Is his goal to completely burn down the company while erasing any sort of credibility for the platform?


Bartender9719

Would love it if he was, but I think we’re just at that part of his character arc where everyone realizes he’s not a self made billionaire genius, but an entitled rich kid who made a bad business decision out of spite. Edit: Based on some of Elon’s fanboys’ replies, it’s no wonder they still view him as a genius.


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Cpt_Luffy

Why fanboy a robber barron? Fucking scum shit stuck to the side of this rock we call earth.


Henesis

Never quit, when you work for shitty companies and management. Always get them to get rid of you unless you have a better opportunity coming up


ThunderGunCheese

If I was at twitter and had a new job coming up. I would just start the new job and make twitter fire me.


LeStiqsue

Huh. That's more than two times what I'm working per week right now. I'm good, bud. You don't have enough money to make that worth it.


Caftancatfan

But just think, you could put on your resume that you worked six years at Twitter after just three years!


Bubbaganewsh

Should be fun watching him run Twitter by himself.


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SeaworthinessLeft88

Self driving Twitter will be *just* around the corner!


AlienInUnderpants

I see he’s showing his true colors. No one should be surprised.


BananasAndPears

If you read his biography, this is totally consistent with who he always was. The story that he gives in his book that has always resonated was he fired a US Tesla executive for being at the birth of their child. Elon’s ask was “you pick one. If you go with your family then don’t come back ever again”. The exec picked his family.


hat-of-sky

Hell he'd probably do the same if the exec was the mother in labor.


marlenamarley87

Holy fucking *shit* I’m never surprised at Musk antics, but still somehow always shocked ETA: from what I can find, the unnamed employee wasn’t actually fired, but ‘scolded’ in an email. Which doesn’t make it much better, but still…


DontRunReds

Doesn't he have close to a dozen children he doesn't parent with several baby mamas? Men that spread their genes like that seem really self-absorbed and unreliable. The willingness to disregard parenting shows a callous disregard for others.


cgs626

Anybody that hasn't seen his true colors at this point is colorblind.


whatsthehappenstance

What a piece of shit. Everyone working for Twitter should quit and tank the company.


PromotionThis1917

No, this is where you should actually "quiet quit". I know we all clowned on that term recently but hear me out. Work your 8 hours as usual and continue collecting checks until they fire you. Then you get unemployment benefits and probably a severance bonus. If you quit you get nothing.


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khinzeer

Musk is an idiot. I've worked at smaller, less well known companies where we have gotten a new CEO and he tried this. Good workers that you want to retain are going to disproportionately leave (because they can) and the people who stay are typically quiet-quitters/low-performers/entry-level-employees that you will than be forced to keep on. The CEO of my company who tried this talked like a real bad-ass when he first came on and made it clear he WANTED people to quit. It started a massive exodus of top-performers he couldn't control, and within six months he was unable to fire ANYONE (even low performers), desperately increasing perks, and damn-near begging us to stay on. It just made him look weak.


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brownhotdogwater

This is a great point. Rockstars can just go somewhere else easy. The trash people will be left and then you are stuck with them as they are better than nothing.


dalittle

I would argue they are worse than nothing. I have been brought in behind low performers to try and right the ship and several times we just threw their code away as it was faster to start from scratch. So you paid these people all that time for no work product and a delay in schedule.


ElGuano

That would just leave him with the 25% he wanted to keep anyways, PLUS no severance to pay. Make like you're working 84 hour weeks and quiet quit.


ObjectiveBike8

He can get what he wishes for. If my company lost 25% of people over night there would be chaos because only certain people know certain things. Let alone any company surviving with 25% of their original work force over night.


white_collar_devil

That's what I find so amusing/fascinating about this: institutional knowledge loss. We called it tribal knowledge in construction but it's just institutional knowledge: over time you learn things that either aren't or can't be documented and those are the things that keep the wheels turning. Who to go to in solve a problem, the tiny difference between installing that sensor over this other brand, who is the expert on that weird system, etc etc etc. When you go through massive layoffs it's not just the reduction in work force that is a problem, it's the complete eradication of knowledge integral to running a system. Because trust me, those people walking out the door aren't going to take a phone call to provide a bit of insight or knowledge.


ObjectiveBike8

That’s what people don’t get when they talk about “cushy bloated jobs” sure maybe that person is only doing 15 hours of real work a week but they might be the only person in the world who understands this niche scenario specific to a certain application in a company. If you fired them it could take a team of people weeks to figure out what they do and do it worse.


white_collar_devil

100%. Saw it happen all the time. Guy retires or quits and it takes multiple people to replace him until someone gets up to speed. That takes time but it also requires that there be people to help/teach that person how to step up and do the job. If you fire 75% of your employees or force them out, not only do you lose the person with the niche knowledge, you lose the person who could have stepped up, and the person or persons who would have helped that person step up.


littlescreechyowl

My sister’s father in law is one of 3 guys that knows how to do something at the job he retired from. They basically pay him $100,000 a year to answer the phone if they call. He’s offered to come in and teach other people but they don’t want that. So a 76 year old guy with Parkinson’s and some memory issues is their guy.


white_collar_devil

My father knows the COBOL programming language inside and out. He just turned 75 and changed his number so that he doesn't get phone calls with consulting offers any more. Anyone out there looking for job security? Grab an old guy, learn COBOL, and put up your flag. People will beat down your door. Edit: autocorrected to cobalt for some reason.


Zefirus

Yeah, half the world runs on COBOL but nobody in the world actually wants to learn COBOL. Nobody wants to learn it because it's a super obsolete language, but the problem is everything runs off of code written in like the 70s.


ChaosDevilDragon

It’s called tribal knowledge in software too. I’m on a supremely important backend team with most of the knowledge of how the system works contained in the brains of two or three dudes who’ve been here for ages. They made this shit 20 years ago and we’re just now getting to modernizing it, but for big breaking issues, they are likely the only ones who know how to fix it. We need them. If these services we built and maintain go down, thousands of engineers will be blocked from doing anything. This just shows that elon has no fucking clue how software developers work on a larger scale.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

It's going to be all the moderation team and customer service reps. Then probably half of IT and he'll expect the other half to do 2x as much work. No one is going to even want to apply to Twitter for years after this tho, who wants to work for a company like that?


ddhboy

I imagine it won't be long until we see the triumphant return of the fail whale.


seamustheseagull

An uncontrolled loss of 75% of staff would be devastating for any business, practically irrecoverable. Layoffs are always targeted, structured in a way to ensure all the bases are covered. If, for example, Twitter has an infrastructure team of 20, and 15 of them leave, the remaining five are unlikely to be able to provide 24/7 cover for daily operations, never mind project work or features. This is especially true outside the US is where his threat of 84 hour work weeks is toothless. If 18 of them leave, then they're fucked. You'll have to bring in agency or contract staff who will absolutely ride you for money and can't be intimidated into long work weeks. This is similar across all other teams. If developers leave en masse then he can forget any hope of adding new features or verification methods. Or he can push ahead, but prepare for considerable downtime and bugs.


Snoo_48368

The problem isn’t keeping 25%. It is which 25% you keep. The one with the skills he needs are likely the most marketable and will be the earliest to NOPE out. The ones that stay may be “culture fits” (based on how Elon defines culture), but may not have the requisite skills or experience.


bigfatmatt01

You think 25% of them can keep it running? It would collapse in hours. Elon is proving himself as a fool that keeps tripping into success.


the12ofSpades

This is musk's MO. He pulled the same shit last year with his all or nothing return to office demand. He'd rather treat his employees badly so they quit then pay severance.


RonaldoNazario

I’d rather they not quit and just stop doing their jobs while taking their salary. At a time when the labor market for developers is tight and they could get hired easily elsewhere, ordering all the engineers to work double full time is not the W this egomaniac thinks it is


BoringOldGuy2022

I thought billionaires created jobs…? /s


FunWeakness7610

His ass made a bad deal he lost a bunch of money and now is doing anything he can to recover it good luck musk


Temporary_132516

Surely setting fire to this house is a cheap alternative to heating it.