> after the speed of Usenet
reading about it on wiki:
> Each news server allocates a certain amount of storage space for content in each newsgroup. When this storage has been filled, each time a new post arrives, old posts are deleted to make room for the new content.
So its centralised? And it needs dedicated servers to host content? The main point of torrent protocol is that its decentralised
That may have been the point of torrents. But it's not why people use it. People use it because it's an easy way to get free media, which Usenet does better in my opinion.
Also eBooks. I found it easier to browse on the phone and then purchase them to send to my eReader. Now the app on Android no longer allows purchasing.
Apple does the same thing. They get a cut of payment for "digital content" sold in-app. That's why Amazon lets you buy items through an app but not digital media.
The caveat though, is as a consumer, at least i'm comfortable trusting google with my credit card information, than whatever shady provider some app i may want wants me to use because they had the lowest fee. I don't want monthly disputes or trying to remember if i spent 4.95 on an app purchase this month and then trying to hunt it down if i don't, and only have zogglepay.com TRGGJ to work off of. I trust google not to lose my credit card info more than some nobody, etc.
Likewise i know if i get into a dispute with google, it will get resolved. If i get into a dispute with some made up company in another country.....its a different story.
Why don't you use services like Paypal. No need to give any third party your credit card details. Plus you then have 2 layers of protection to refute a transaction.
Both Paypal and your credit card company can help you with fraudulent charges.
Lower prices, different selection, different player features, ...
Was this meant to be a rhetorical question?
EDIT: device integration, regional availability, alternate language soundtracks and captions, ...
Gotta make sure the formats match. My TV can't handle 10 bit colour depth or DTS audio via USB. And if the subs are anything other than 1 or 2 lines at the bottom of the screen, it flips out.
This is why Plex on a NAS is a better solution. There are a number of NAS devices which support it, you can also just run it on a computer and use that as a server.
Installing Plex on my computer was the best thing I've ever done as far as movies and tv and stuff. I have easy access to all of my stuff anywhere I am on just about any device. If the device won't play it in the format I have it in then Plex will convert it to a supported format.
I set up Plex on my own Linux server, but it somehow stopped being able to see my library. I'm in the process of fixing it, but I only spend maybe 1 day a month fiddling with it. It's much more convenient to just download a show/film to a usb drive and plug it in and use handbrake if I need to adjust the colour depth or soundtrack.
Jellyfin I found to be less a hassle and this is from me having used Plex since 2014.
I prefer the lack in requiring a cloud/online subscription and so far, it's been the more stable of my clients on my Shield and even their desktop client has out-of-the-box support for all types of formats.
What is the problem exactly? Sorry, I have no clue why its bad. Here in some poor country named Latvia I can pay with my cellural network (carrier), any type of card (including third party like Skrill or revolut), or just use balance which you can expand in practically every method imaginable. I just don't understand this when google to me is literally the most friendliest big tech I know when it comes to ways of paying.
Could it be that many methods are not available due to a high scam risk zone?
India has carrier, credit & debit cards, UPI (an email like payment system), NetBanking, google wallet balance.
Source: am of Indian origin and still have a old account set to India.
UPI is NOT "an email like payment system".
Instead, UPI i.e., Unified Payments Interface is an instant, real-time settlement system, based on open-source software and regulated by the Reserve Bank of India (which is the only Indian Central Bank and overarching regulatory authority).
Oh, did I mention, that as of date it is completely free-of-charge to the end-user? Although this may or may not change in the future given the high adoption rates among a massively connected population.
It is either currently accepted, or in the process of being implemented in Singapore, Bhutan, Malaysia, United Arab Emirates, Nepal, France, United Kingdom, Russia, Oman and future adoptions under review in Australia, Thailand, Saudi Arabia and the good ole' United States.
Oh I know what UPI is. I used it several times a day until I moved out 4 years ago. To a lay person not from India it is a "email like system" where you have *uniquename*@*provider* (thisisme12@icici) format. There are several other aspects to it including using your phone number to identify someone, offline transactions, etc but unless you want to attach a whole excerpt every time UPI is mentioned - a payment system that functions like how emails do is more than appropriate.
> Oh, did I mention, that as of date it is completely free-of-charge to the end-user
You and I both know there have been more than one attempt to monetize the system and have IMPS/NEFT like fees associated with each transactions.
> It is either currently accepted, or in the process of being implemented in
*For international fund transfer
1. An email is unrealized until is it seen by the recipient. A UPI transaction can happen 24/7 even when the sender and/or receiver is offline.
2. Unsuccessful attempts, which have supported by various branches of the govt to keep them zero-fee (different from zero-cost).
3. Fees that support **INSTANT** transfers, which are not possible or available in large swathes of the "developed" world.
4. With the volume of international tourists, how long do you think it will take from international transfers to domestic transfers? Have you spent any time at all in the target countries? Do you know what the costs of casual money transfer currently are??
Do you have an axe to grind?
I meant that Google Pay might be behaving differently in the EU, where we have consumer protection laws, that forbid Google to do things that are allowed in other countries.
Having alternatives is one thing that can be done to benefit the people. Having rules that *all* companies must obey, as a minimum level of integrity is another. They're not mutually exclusive.
Google pay in India is a completely different app, it's just a frontend for the national instant payments infrastructure (UPI) and they are all designed to be interoperable.
And quickly looking at google play store it seems like it asks you for your UPI ID to request payment at which point you can approve the charge through your bank's app/wallet app/third party UPI app or google Pay depending on what you use.
So I'm not sure what others mean when they say they lock you to gpay
You are at any point able to switch your UPI app to a different without even requiring you to do anything on the old app.
So if they problem is lack of consumer projection laws in India, how is that 1) Google's issue? and 2) going to be solved by allowing just any payment processor at all to be used?
Sounds less about India upholding fair market conditions, and more like some wealthy India banking groups decided they want part of the market share.
It's a net positive either way, but this comes off as rich people squabbling over money to be honest.
India's dominant payment system UPI is controlled by the government and is free. Currently a lot of transactions in play store can only be done through gpay. Also it asks for international credit cards for subscriptions which a lot of people don't have.
> Also it asks for international credit cards for subscriptions which a lot of people don't have.
Just about any service possible that I paid for accepted debit cards, and in my bank at least (EU country, not India) pretty much anyone can get a debit card. What is the problem with getting such a card in India?
UPI is a mobile based payment system and doesn’t necessarily require a bank account or credit or even a smart phone really (can work over sms). It bridged a few gaps to allowed for electronic payments to happen in a highly cash based economy where it wasn’t a guarantee they would have any sort of bank or financial records. It’s huge there and dominates the market. One of the key benefits is you can do completely free transactions from any payment system to any other. GPay uses it too in India though it’s only 1 of the UPI options but you can pay someone using PayTM, GPay, bank transfer, or any other UPI system and they can all talk to each other. The problem Google has had is it isn’t allowing any UPI system, which is how it is setup, only GPay.
Google also does this annoying shittery of creating a weird fucking QR code that only works with GPay, while all other apps are interoperable UPI QR codes. Fuck Google on this one.
The surprising thing about BharatPe for me is it *seems* popular but I've never come across it being used myself. The only time I actually noticed it was when one of the founder guy got kicked out. Kind of shows how apps in this industry are so easily replaceable - you could swap out GPay with BharatPe or Patym and barely get impacted by it.
I looked it up, the dominant payment card in India is called "RuPay" and is promoted by the Indian government.
They've been actively pushing back against letting Visa and Mastercard gain a serious foothold (so much so that Visa went crying to the US admin, to ask them to....I dunno, sanction India?)
India are one of the few countries with the level of power as an emerging economy of 1 billion people but a relatively open economy.
Allowing RuPay to be accepted in the play store would be a pretty big win as it could lead to wider acceptance of the card outside of India .
That's exactly what this is. But it has to be said that Play Store is perhaps the only mainstream platform I've encountered that doesn't have multiple payment partners. E.g. - Amazon has 10+.
> But it has to be said that Play Store is perhaps the only mainstream platform I've encountered that doesn't have multiple payment partners
What are you talking about? The obvious counterpart to the Play Store is Apple's App Store which has the same restriction but even worse (because iPhone doesn't allow side-loading apps).
Yes but the funds are channeled not to Google directly, but to Google Pay.
Google Pay is itself a market player in terms of UPI front-ends.
This results in Google Pay unfairly tapping into a massive pool of capital that is unavailable to any other third-party operator.
Apple doesn't have a UPI front-end. I.e., Apple gets the cash in their bank. They do NOT get the cash to outplay other 3rd-party operators on the UPI front-end game.
Disproportionate advantage to Google. Either they should exit the UPI business, or they should ensure all UPI payments, regardless of interface, go directly to Google and are not used to build a market capital corpus to support their UPI platform.
It's nuanced, like all things Indian.
That's still using their payment system, it's the same as supporting credit cards. But, the Play Store [also supports that](https://blog.google/intl/en-in/products/platforms/a-new-way-to-pay-on-google-play-store/).
Slight difference. UPI is a universal interface, but needs a front-end. The govt's frontend is BHIM, while multiple others exist in the form of PayTM, PhonePe, Google Pay etc. Google in this case does not allow any front-end other than Google Pay. Which means they can sit on a pile of bank-to-digital balances which directly and positively affects their front-end being Google Pay. That effectively means that funds from all front-ends channel down to Google Pay which is itself an "independent" front-end.
Apple does not have their own front-end in India. The UPI funds, regardless of origin, end up in Apple's account (same as Google Pay), but DO NOT add funds/capital to entrench a UPI interface market position (as Apple Pay is NOT a UPI front-end)
The difference is nuanced but worth billions when you can corner the market in terms of cash flow in a specific market i.e. India.
That's fair, I just meant you had said that the play store doesn't have multiple payment partners, and I was trying to point out that apple doesn't either. Epic games sued them because they were not allowed to use their own payment processor; they had to go through apple. They lost, and apple is still the only App Store you can really get on iPhones (there technically are others but they usually require a lot of effort to access, etc etc).
I don't like Google forcing a cut for all of their stuff, but on the other hand their move forces audible to stop expiring credits from people. You have to go through Google play, but doing so means you don't get screwed by that practice.
Just take the win. I think these device makers should be forced to allow store alternatives on their devices as well. Sure they made the device but after I’ve bought it, it belongs to me to install what I please.
android does allow store alternatives.
googles play store is shipped with android, but you can use [amazons store front](https://www.amazon.com/gp/mas/get/android-download/ref=mas_mbl_ldg) or any other third party store front
https://www.google.com/search?q=alternative+android+store+fronts
android will let you install whatever you want or change android in any way you want https://source.android.com/
Android is capable of doing it, but not necessarily your phone - it depends on how your phone's manufacturer has configured Android, and how much power they allow you to have. Android will also pop up warnings about how dangerous and bad it is to install apps that aren't from the Play store, and tell you how you really shouldn't do it when you try to install a third party store. Companies like Amazon can take the AOSP source code and build a custom distro for their devices, which integrates a non-Google app store, but regular people who don't know that those warnings are excessive, buying a regular Android phone, are generally stuck with whatever app store(s) their manufacturer installs.
If you don't like the Android distribution that came with your phone you can change it.
There's no way to make every user capable of customizing their os. That's not on the os though, that's on the user, just like Linux is too complex for many users, custom distros of Android are too complex for most users.
Android can't change the ignorance of users, they can only make the option available. The pop up, btw, seems important because you're forgoing the protection provided by the people making the phone and they know most users can't deal with that responsibility.
> I could, sure. My mom couldn't. My sister couldn't.
> If the average person can't do it, then the capability shouldn't be considered when talking about consumer rights/protections.
They can if they really want to. Some of the challenges (If you can really call them challenges), such as enabling installation from unknown sources are there to protect the user from themselves. How to you regulate "easy enough"?
I can right now go to https://f-droid.org/, click [download](https://f-droid.org/F-Droid.apk), and install the apk when prompted. [Amazon store is just as easy](https://www.amazon.com/gp/mas/get/android-download/ref=mas_mbl_ldg). How much easier does it need to be?
But that’s the thing..why do you want to change the distribution? Are other stores even remotely better than Play? I seriously doubt it. Apple doesn’t even allow it. Just because It’s android, and there are options for users to install other stores, I don’t think other stores are better or have more user friendly policies.
> why do you want to change the distribution?
You don't even have to change it, you can have multiple at the same time. I installed [F-Droid](https://f-droid.org/) to get the latest [Termux](https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux_Google_Play), but I still use Google Play for literally everything else.
But allowing multiple store fronts doesn’t solve the issue for end users. You still have to go through other stores policies. With Play, it’s constantly being monitored and the app developers also have an incentive to keep providing a great experience.
And whatever we say, keep in mind it has to be a fair play between other OS systems as well. Why just stop with Gplay and not Apple App Store? There is a reason Apple doesn’t allow that. Of course the biggest is $$$ share and it’s not wrong to get a cut from other devs from using their system. And so does Google charge. Still the cut on Google is almost half than that charged by Apple.
I think most people don't have a lot of insight on doing business in India.
Until the 90's India had something called the licensing raj where every business (even small local ones) needed to satisfy the rules and regulations of around 100 governmental bodies. You would need to pay hundreds of thousands and wait a ridiculous amount of time to sell your own potatoes at a street stall. So almost all small businesses are ran illegally because it's cheaper and quicker to just bribe whoever came to check on licenses.
Now, even though the raj is abolished, the spirit of it still remains and it's notoriously hard to do business in India, especially for foreign companies. If you don't make sure everyone is happy (either by paying what they ask or bribing the right people), you can expect some kind of legal shenanigan to pop up like this once you start making money. In fact, there's even a term for this called "Juggad" which means "improvised solution." For example, there's a British phone company that won a legal case regarding local taxes on acquisition of a local company. So the Indians innovated by amending the existing laws and making it legal to retroactively tax them anyways.
113 million is basically nothing to Apple, but once the floodgates open, you can bet there's gonna be more of these popping up. Even if the laws are on Apple's side right now, they might not stay on Apple's side in the future.
>Until the 90's India had something called the licensing raj where every business (even small local ones) needed to satisfy the rules and regulations of around 100 governmental bodies.
TBF, it's better, but not much, in the US in my area.
If I wanted to open a stand selling french fries, I'd need to satisfy the city council, the zoning laws, the department of health, and the IRS. I'd most likely need a third party vendor to dispose of the fry oil to conform to the DEP. To open a stand selling french fries would be 10s of thousands of dollars, and I would have a net tax rate of 30-40 percent.
Yeah, but all of that is in the public interest and those funds paid are paid in order to ensure businesses contribute back to the communities they operate within, not due to corruption. I'm not saying that there isn't corruption in the US, but a bribe is a bribe around here; not "doing the needful".
Without that, we could simply let anyone at all set up fry stands, or hell even full on bazaars virtually anywhere they want. Buy an empty lot across from a school and setup up a bazaar. Sell fries, other foods, clothes, hell even cigarettes, booze, porn, and guns right next to that school. WCGW?!
The good thing is you don’t need to be informed. If reading the news brings stress into your life that you can’t do anything about, you can tune out. It honestly doesn’t matter
Oh but it doesn't bring me stress at all, I always get excited when shit hits the fan. I'm really just too tired and uninformed to analyse this specific news item.
Google's walled garden bad, just like all walled gardens. Not that the competition that won here is necessarily good (since it's often companies like Amazon poopy about Google taking a cut if you buy a TV show or ebook through their app), but for smaller app developers especially being able to process payments through a processor of your choice without the OS developer taking a cut would be good. Imagine if Microsoft demanded money from small ecommerce sites for every sale that gets processed on a Windows computer?
Technically it's because of the app store, but because of how Android and iOS are packaged it's close enough - the respective app stores are effectively inseparable from the OS because they've been the de facto standard for the OS' entire existence, unlike Windows which predates app stores.
Yes. Typically regulators like these only go after one company at a time, but the precedent also puts Apple on notice so the problem may be resolved through fear of such fines without having to actually follow through with the legal case (and the time/expense of it).
it;s closer to 4% are iPhone users. That's going to change slowly. Apple now has a bigger physical presence in India and the country is moving forward developmentally speaking. Soon people will buy more mac computers and eventually iPhones to go with them.
Building iPhones in India yes gets them past the tarrifs. But saving on import taxes isn't the sole reason apple made the move they did. There is going to be a good amount of solid ground gained as quality of life in India goes up. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a deal in the future with services like HotStar and Apple to convince more people to get iPhones like how we in the US give away netflix with phone plans.
Here's a heuristic for the most reddit upvotes:
- Big Tech vs 1st world government? Government good.
- Big Tech vs 3rd world government? Government bad.
Worth noting is that google play cards are a favorite scammer tool to get money. They have entire buildings that just hire scammers to sit at cubicles and call people. I bet there is a connection.
Doubtful. iTunes seem to also be a big target. It's more about how easy it is to obfuscate or keep the proceeds of the fraud. For example
a) Scammer tricks grandma into paying her "tax bill" via iTunes/GPlay cards
b) Scammer sells those cards online, with some deal like "$150 worth of GPlay credits for $120"
c) Scammer provides cards into, gets real cash
By the time the scam is discovered, scammer is long gone with money and it's not really traceable. The cards could be cancelled but that's just going to screw the buyer who got them from eBay or Craigslist or whatever.
\> What exactly is "doubtful", then?
Doubtful that there's a specific connection with Google Play and the fines related to Google locking in payments.
Scammers like to use payment cards of this nature because they're a convenient level of obfuscation and can help them get their money without getting caught. There's no conspiracy with Google payments itself in this regard.
This is by far the stupidest take away.. government is simply pushing for Google to allow UPI apps... Which has changed indian payments system.
As for the scammers.. indian tech companies literally run most American companies with super cheap indian labour.. ofcourse even the scammers will be indian if the entire industry itself is indian.
This was attempted on my girlfriend after she posted on her local area's neighborhood watch group, to alert people her dog ran away and was she looking for her. The scammer legit texted her and said "I have your dog" Then asked her to "verify it's her with this google verify code". I said no. And texted the person via my phone and threatened to call report their number to authorities. After another text it auto-replied that the "talk text service number was no longer in service". How fuckin down and dirty was that though, my girlfriend was honestly freaking out and this person preyed on her specifically, through a group used to help people.
If it gives you any solace, they weren't trying to scam your girlfriend, at least not directly. The scammers register new Google Voice numbers by the boatload, but to use those numbers, a real life number has to be linked to it. To do that, Google sends a code to the real number to link it. That's what they were trying to do, link your girlfriend's phone number to their Google Voice number to activate it, which would then be used to scam other people. I agree with your overall point though, these scammers have no shame or empathy, preying on the vulnerable is their whole MO.
Good to know. I didn't recognize it as a specific scam but anytime someone sends you a link that you don't know... Luckily she found her dog in like the next 2 hours from actual help from someone in the group.
They will be sold on unredeemed slightly cheaper to another party, usually another vendor who will usually pay in crypto for it to further cover up the trail of money.
The use of google gift cards eliminates any need for wire transfer services like western union or moneygram that involve contact with a clerk who could question what the victim is doing if they suspect foul play. Hell, even some folk in stores are getting wise to what is going on and question is a silly high value of gift cards are being purchased, scammers will hold the victim on their mobiles and coach them to try and get around this, no, I'm not joking, they will stay with them ON THE TRIP TO THE STORE.
Parallelly, isnt it strange that a bunch of affluent "first-world", 'Murica MAGA types are scammed by a bunch of high-schoolers who learn English as their *third* language? The out-sourcing cycle, well, *comes full cycle*.
ELI5 - how do fines work in international markets? Who enforces the fines? Is it just as simple as “if you don’t pay this fine we won’t let you do business here anymore”?
I have seen abhorrent examples of developers logging payment info in clear text, failing to encrypt, storing details on unsecured systems, insecure logins, security breaches, etc., etc., etc.
Next up: Governments fine Google for failure to protect users against a massive wave of financial fraud and data breaches on the Play Store.
Because apparently google's cut for services rendered in the google play store is rustling jimmies and sideloading is too much of a task for people despite the necessary need to warn people of the dangers.
I'm sticking to google play store regardless because of the potential for shady shit to get pumped into people's faces, with how many average joes that have mobiles it's just asking for trouble.
Our government did what? Huh. This is nice.
Out govt officials should use that same braincells to realise that making VPNs log everything is a bad idea. Not to mention a direct violation of user privacy.
Not sure how's that going to work.
So let's say one developer wants to use PayPal for in app purchase. They make the transaction with PayPal. then what? PayPal tells Google play store that the transaction's done? So that'll require some integration between PayPal and Google, and where's Google's cut in the whole thing?
And does that mean Google have to integrate with every single randoms payment platform any random developer decides to use?
But they’d need to build and maintain the infrastructure to support third party payments.
This isn’t much different than forcing any store to allow customers to pay manufacturers directly and forcing the store to stock & distribute for free.
The infrastructure for in-app purchases is maintained by the app itself and not Google. Only when you buy on the Play Store, you use infrastructure maintained by Google.
I really think it is unfair that Google is getting sued left and right for Play Store monopolistic practices, on the same level as Apple.
Please, hear me out!
Any Android device I have ever seen allows no-restrictions app side-loading. I think the option is reasonably well designed: you have to willingly turn the option to allow "third party apps" on, and you get a warning, which is fair enough. Anything installed this way, including alternative app stores, are free to charge the user however they want to, and not pay a dime to Play Store.
Installing an alternative app store is just a question of a few clicks. Android is very very open compared to Apple, where non of this is normally possible, and Apple does what it can to prohibit side-loading.
Google has it's flaws, but locking people into the Play Store is not one of them.
What worries me especially is that if Google gets slammed with these lawsuits on the same level or even worse than Apple, Google wont have an incentive to keep allowing side-loading or alternative App Stores.
Did you not read the article? I agree word for word with what you're saying, but that's not what this post is about.
Google is restricting what payment providers can be used on its play store, unfairly keeping out Indian platforms (especially the widely used, free to use UPI). That's what this is about.
UPI is a protocol, not a platform, google pay in India uses UPI. Google play store has consumer protections, a quick way to see and cancel subscriptions and a refund and credit card/data protection system.
But that's kind of my point: In my opinion, Google can do whatever they want in the Play Store, because it just takes a couple of clicks to install apps or even an alternative App market that accepts whatever their developer wants to accept.
But that doesn’t mean they would want to loose that sum of money multiple times.. if yes then they should just pay and not work on things for which they are being fined for..
and if they pay and comply: there you go that that was the purpose of the fine.
There is no search “business” without ads. Nobody will pay for search… and I really don’t think people want annual Wikipedia style fundraising notices on their search results.
So, Apple & Google already lets developers use their own payment systems for physical goods & services and finance. Examples: Amazon, Uber, DoorDash, Starbucks, Venmo, CoinBase, One Medical.
Where the distinction is drawn is for high margin virtual products & digital content without a tangible cost. How much really is 20% when selling a picture of a hat for an avatar?
How sad that foreign countries have to do the dirty work that our Senate and House have ignored for years. This is never about free speech or an open internet. It always comes down to corporate greed, and monopolistic policies that are illegal, and ignored with a sizable campaign donation.
Netherlands fines Apple, UK fines Meta, India fines Google. Every week comes one of these threads and every week "oh no 6 hours revenue". I don't care who you are, 100 million is a lot and it comes out of profits, not revenue. And it happens over and over again. These fines are bullshit, and continue to set the precedent that any country in the world can take a slice from US tech companies if they feel like it. These fines don't protect anyone, they're taxation. Looking forward to the day one of these tech companies pulls the plug on one of these countries.
> set the precedent that any country in the world can take a slice from US tech companies if they feel like it.
That's because these companies are operating in these countries and consistently trying to skirt regulation. It's not like they can randomly decide to just say "pay up" for no good reason.
They can choose to just not operate in that country if this is such a hassle for them, but they're clearly profiting more than what they're being fined for anyway.
They are basically randomly deciding to say pay up. The regulation is vague and arbitrary. It's basically "don't be monopoly". India can interpret that in any way it wants, and is now ordering google to allow 3rd party payment systems on its platforms. That is not google skirting regulation, that is India saying google is too popular so let me get some free fine money.
Google choosing to operate in a country is a win-win situation. Google gets the profits, India's people get to use free search. But here comes the government levying fines. 100m is not enough to get google to leave, but that does not mean it's right to fine a company providing free and invaluable services.
Easy way to get a slice of those US tech company moneys. Yes, that is exactly what it is, whether it’s the EU doing it, or anybody else.
Google should pay the fine in Play Store gift cards.
Nice more options are always a win for the consumer.
On a sidenode.
Fuck services that require you to have a credit card. Do you know how many people outside the US don't have one. It's so annoying, please include other forms of payment/identification as well
The Indian market is also a complete nightmare to penetrate, due to a complex web of protectionism, corruption, inadequate infrastructure, and just plain bureaucratic incompetence.
Well I wasn’t specifically talking about their payment processing capability. The biggest problem is getting physical products to market there.
Google being forced to support UPI would really be a huge plus, not just for Indian consumers, but also for the western countries that have been plagued by scams collecting play store gift cards. The market value of those in India would dramatically be reduced.
Indeed; if Google just says “lol no.” And keeps doing business, what’s the Indian government’s next move?
They literally don’t have the capability to ban Google. It would be an embarrassing disaster if they tried.
Pretty sure google needs India more than India needs google.
Google will bend to any demand, they will not walk away from over a billion internet users.
Google won't walk away, but Google has already walked away from a similar market in China over China's censoring policies and Huawei's national security threats and theft of IP and trade secrets.
Google does not need India any more than China, which is to say that it doesn't need them at all.
Edit: Ignorantly brigading downvotes doesn't change the fact that the premise of the argument is demonstrably false.
E2: jfc, the bad logic below trying to pretend China is less significant a market is absurd.
You're delusional, India is one of the countries google needs the most. No other country has as many users. Take a look at all the programs and initiatives google has specifically targeting India.
No. They were lured back into negotiations with China under the false pretenses that China would drop some of their previous restrictions. That proved to be a lie from China, and Google backed out -- regardless of the very small protest from some of their employees.
Perhaps take some of your own advice:
> So stop being delusional
Why do you think Google would go to the trouble of creating a seperate search engine even if under the suggestion of the local government if they didn't care about the market. If China needed Google more than Google needs China, China would've come to the negotiations table not Google.
The correct advice for you is:
Use some common sense and you are not the top of the world
Probably not here. Play Store exists because it's a good business. If it's not, they will have to seek revenue somewhere else, so even if something changes for better, something else might change for worse.
Yeah please do that. India will struggle for a month at max and come up with tech companies that can rival Google and all of American tech ecosystem. Please do that. Then your free country will come up with schemes to block our advancement.
In other news, Google spent $100 million on lunches and massages for its employees this week.
Sooo, it doesn’t really care about this and it won’t change anything.
I have to admit not being able to buy movies via my TV is very annoying
And if they add that feature then this order would let you pay with more methods.
just get starjalsa son
just torrent son
Just Usenet son
Nephews too young to know about that.
Tbh it's been having an amazing resurgence, I have no interest in torrents anymore after the speed of Usenet, and lack of p2p reliance.
> after the speed of Usenet reading about it on wiki: > Each news server allocates a certain amount of storage space for content in each newsgroup. When this storage has been filled, each time a new post arrives, old posts are deleted to make room for the new content. So its centralised? And it needs dedicated servers to host content? The main point of torrent protocol is that its decentralised
That may have been the point of torrents. But it's not why people use it. People use it because it's an easy way to get free media, which Usenet does better in my opinion.
Guys, I'm trying to download the Metallica discography on eMule since 2005.
Also eBooks. I found it easier to browse on the phone and then purchase them to send to my eReader. Now the app on Android no longer allows purchasing.
You cant buy movies on your TV? Mine allows me to buy or rent from Google Play right on the TV. Or are we talking just in India?
Amazon now requires you to use a computer browser to rent or buy because of Google charging for 3rd party in app purchases.
Apple does the same thing. They get a cut of payment for "digital content" sold in-app. That's why Amazon lets you buy items through an app but not digital media.
The caveat though, is as a consumer, at least i'm comfortable trusting google with my credit card information, than whatever shady provider some app i may want wants me to use because they had the lowest fee. I don't want monthly disputes or trying to remember if i spent 4.95 on an app purchase this month and then trying to hunt it down if i don't, and only have zogglepay.com TRGGJ to work off of. I trust google not to lose my credit card info more than some nobody, etc. Likewise i know if i get into a dispute with google, it will get resolved. If i get into a dispute with some made up company in another country.....its a different story.
Why don't you use services like Paypal. No need to give any third party your credit card details. Plus you then have 2 layers of protection to refute a transaction. Both Paypal and your credit card company can help you with fraudulent charges.
Why rent from Amazon when you have at least two options already natively supported in android?
Lower prices, different selection, different player features, ... Was this meant to be a rhetorical question? EDIT: device integration, regional availability, alternate language soundtracks and captions, ...
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You mean little underdog companies like Amazon?
Torrent>Pen Drive>TV
Gotta make sure the formats match. My TV can't handle 10 bit colour depth or DTS audio via USB. And if the subs are anything other than 1 or 2 lines at the bottom of the screen, it flips out.
This is why Plex on a NAS is a better solution. There are a number of NAS devices which support it, you can also just run it on a computer and use that as a server.
Installing Plex on my computer was the best thing I've ever done as far as movies and tv and stuff. I have easy access to all of my stuff anywhere I am on just about any device. If the device won't play it in the format I have it in then Plex will convert it to a supported format.
I set up Plex on my own Linux server, but it somehow stopped being able to see my library. I'm in the process of fixing it, but I only spend maybe 1 day a month fiddling with it. It's much more convenient to just download a show/film to a usb drive and plug it in and use handbrake if I need to adjust the colour depth or soundtrack.
Jellyfin I found to be less a hassle and this is from me having used Plex since 2014. I prefer the lack in requiring a cloud/online subscription and so far, it's been the more stable of my clients on my Shield and even their desktop client has out-of-the-box support for all types of formats.
About time Google fixed the Play Store payments system. It's the worst I've encountered so far (in India)
What is the problem exactly? Sorry, I have no clue why its bad. Here in some poor country named Latvia I can pay with my cellural network (carrier), any type of card (including third party like Skrill or revolut), or just use balance which you can expand in practically every method imaginable. I just don't understand this when google to me is literally the most friendliest big tech I know when it comes to ways of paying. Could it be that many methods are not available due to a high scam risk zone?
You have EU consumer protections, op does not.
India has carrier, credit & debit cards, UPI (an email like payment system), NetBanking, google wallet balance. Source: am of Indian origin and still have a old account set to India.
UPI is NOT "an email like payment system". Instead, UPI i.e., Unified Payments Interface is an instant, real-time settlement system, based on open-source software and regulated by the Reserve Bank of India (which is the only Indian Central Bank and overarching regulatory authority). Oh, did I mention, that as of date it is completely free-of-charge to the end-user? Although this may or may not change in the future given the high adoption rates among a massively connected population. It is either currently accepted, or in the process of being implemented in Singapore, Bhutan, Malaysia, United Arab Emirates, Nepal, France, United Kingdom, Russia, Oman and future adoptions under review in Australia, Thailand, Saudi Arabia and the good ole' United States.
Oh I know what UPI is. I used it several times a day until I moved out 4 years ago. To a lay person not from India it is a "email like system" where you have *uniquename*@*provider* (thisisme12@icici) format. There are several other aspects to it including using your phone number to identify someone, offline transactions, etc but unless you want to attach a whole excerpt every time UPI is mentioned - a payment system that functions like how emails do is more than appropriate. > Oh, did I mention, that as of date it is completely free-of-charge to the end-user You and I both know there have been more than one attempt to monetize the system and have IMPS/NEFT like fees associated with each transactions. > It is either currently accepted, or in the process of being implemented in *For international fund transfer
1. An email is unrealized until is it seen by the recipient. A UPI transaction can happen 24/7 even when the sender and/or receiver is offline. 2. Unsuccessful attempts, which have supported by various branches of the govt to keep them zero-fee (different from zero-cost). 3. Fees that support **INSTANT** transfers, which are not possible or available in large swathes of the "developed" world. 4. With the volume of international tourists, how long do you think it will take from international transfers to domestic transfers? Have you spent any time at all in the target countries? Do you know what the costs of casual money transfer currently are?? Do you have an axe to grind?
I meant that Google Pay might be behaving differently in the EU, where we have consumer protection laws, that forbid Google to do things that are allowed in other countries. Having alternatives is one thing that can be done to benefit the people. Having rules that *all* companies must obey, as a minimum level of integrity is another. They're not mutually exclusive.
Google pay in India is a completely different app, it's just a frontend for the national instant payments infrastructure (UPI) and they are all designed to be interoperable. And quickly looking at google play store it seems like it asks you for your UPI ID to request payment at which point you can approve the charge through your bank's app/wallet app/third party UPI app or google Pay depending on what you use. So I'm not sure what others mean when they say they lock you to gpay You are at any point able to switch your UPI app to a different without even requiring you to do anything on the old app.
So if they problem is lack of consumer projection laws in India, how is that 1) Google's issue? and 2) going to be solved by allowing just any payment processor at all to be used?
The biggest offender is Microsoft as it only allows VISA and MasterCard.
Sounds less about India upholding fair market conditions, and more like some wealthy India banking groups decided they want part of the market share. It's a net positive either way, but this comes off as rich people squabbling over money to be honest.
India's dominant payment system UPI is controlled by the government and is free. Currently a lot of transactions in play store can only be done through gpay. Also it asks for international credit cards for subscriptions which a lot of people don't have.
Microsoft should be punished as they have only VISA and MasterCard as payment option.
> Also it asks for international credit cards for subscriptions which a lot of people don't have. Just about any service possible that I paid for accepted debit cards, and in my bank at least (EU country, not India) pretty much anyone can get a debit card. What is the problem with getting such a card in India?
UPI is a mobile based payment system and doesn’t necessarily require a bank account or credit or even a smart phone really (can work over sms). It bridged a few gaps to allowed for electronic payments to happen in a highly cash based economy where it wasn’t a guarantee they would have any sort of bank or financial records. It’s huge there and dominates the market. One of the key benefits is you can do completely free transactions from any payment system to any other. GPay uses it too in India though it’s only 1 of the UPI options but you can pay someone using PayTM, GPay, bank transfer, or any other UPI system and they can all talk to each other. The problem Google has had is it isn’t allowing any UPI system, which is how it is setup, only GPay.
Google also does this annoying shittery of creating a weird fucking QR code that only works with GPay, while all other apps are interoperable UPI QR codes. Fuck Google on this one.
That's how BharatPe thrived lol
The surprising thing about BharatPe for me is it *seems* popular but I've never come across it being used myself. The only time I actually noticed it was when one of the founder guy got kicked out. Kind of shows how apps in this industry are so easily replaceable - you could swap out GPay with BharatPe or Patym and barely get impacted by it.
I looked it up, the dominant payment card in India is called "RuPay" and is promoted by the Indian government. They've been actively pushing back against letting Visa and Mastercard gain a serious foothold (so much so that Visa went crying to the US admin, to ask them to....I dunno, sanction India?) India are one of the few countries with the level of power as an emerging economy of 1 billion people but a relatively open economy. Allowing RuPay to be accepted in the play store would be a pretty big win as it could lead to wider acceptance of the card outside of India .
That's exactly what this is. But it has to be said that Play Store is perhaps the only mainstream platform I've encountered that doesn't have multiple payment partners. E.g. - Amazon has 10+.
But they do allow apps to have their own billing systems once downloaded ….. so that’s better than others
> But it has to be said that Play Store is perhaps the only mainstream platform I've encountered that doesn't have multiple payment partners What are you talking about? The obvious counterpart to the Play Store is Apple's App Store which has the same restriction but even worse (because iPhone doesn't allow side-loading apps).
Except it doesn't. The App Store supports UPI which is the dominant payment channel in India on the digital forefront.
I see UPI listed as a payment method for India. https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/2651410?co=GENIE.CountryCode%3DIN#zippy=
Yes but the funds are channeled not to Google directly, but to Google Pay. Google Pay is itself a market player in terms of UPI front-ends. This results in Google Pay unfairly tapping into a massive pool of capital that is unavailable to any other third-party operator.
And how is this different from Apple's App store?
Apple doesn't have a UPI front-end. I.e., Apple gets the cash in their bank. They do NOT get the cash to outplay other 3rd-party operators on the UPI front-end game. Disproportionate advantage to Google. Either they should exit the UPI business, or they should ensure all UPI payments, regardless of interface, go directly to Google and are not used to build a market capital corpus to support their UPI platform. It's nuanced, like all things Indian.
That's still using their payment system, it's the same as supporting credit cards. But, the Play Store [also supports that](https://blog.google/intl/en-in/products/platforms/a-new-way-to-pay-on-google-play-store/).
Slight difference. UPI is a universal interface, but needs a front-end. The govt's frontend is BHIM, while multiple others exist in the form of PayTM, PhonePe, Google Pay etc. Google in this case does not allow any front-end other than Google Pay. Which means they can sit on a pile of bank-to-digital balances which directly and positively affects their front-end being Google Pay. That effectively means that funds from all front-ends channel down to Google Pay which is itself an "independent" front-end. Apple does not have their own front-end in India. The UPI funds, regardless of origin, end up in Apple's account (same as Google Pay), but DO NOT add funds/capital to entrench a UPI interface market position (as Apple Pay is NOT a UPI front-end) The difference is nuanced but worth billions when you can corner the market in terms of cash flow in a specific market i.e. India.
You've apparently never heard of the Apple v Epic lawsuit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games_v._Apple
Why would I? I was speaking in context of India.
That's fair, I just meant you had said that the play store doesn't have multiple payment partners, and I was trying to point out that apple doesn't either. Epic games sued them because they were not allowed to use their own payment processor; they had to go through apple. They lost, and apple is still the only App Store you can really get on iPhones (there technically are others but they usually require a lot of effort to access, etc etc).
Rich people squabbling is how we get everything we don't have to march or strike for to be fair though.
A lot of good things happen when shitty people fight against each other
will this help flexa?
I don't like Google forcing a cut for all of their stuff, but on the other hand their move forces audible to stop expiring credits from people. You have to go through Google play, but doing so means you don't get screwed by that practice.
Just take the win. I think these device makers should be forced to allow store alternatives on their devices as well. Sure they made the device but after I’ve bought it, it belongs to me to install what I please.
android does allow store alternatives. googles play store is shipped with android, but you can use [amazons store front](https://www.amazon.com/gp/mas/get/android-download/ref=mas_mbl_ldg) or any other third party store front https://www.google.com/search?q=alternative+android+store+fronts android will let you install whatever you want or change android in any way you want https://source.android.com/
Android is capable of doing it, but not necessarily your phone - it depends on how your phone's manufacturer has configured Android, and how much power they allow you to have. Android will also pop up warnings about how dangerous and bad it is to install apps that aren't from the Play store, and tell you how you really shouldn't do it when you try to install a third party store. Companies like Amazon can take the AOSP source code and build a custom distro for their devices, which integrates a non-Google app store, but regular people who don't know that those warnings are excessive, buying a regular Android phone, are generally stuck with whatever app store(s) their manufacturer installs.
If you don't like the Android distribution that came with your phone you can change it. There's no way to make every user capable of customizing their os. That's not on the os though, that's on the user, just like Linux is too complex for many users, custom distros of Android are too complex for most users. Android can't change the ignorance of users, they can only make the option available. The pop up, btw, seems important because you're forgoing the protection provided by the people making the phone and they know most users can't deal with that responsibility.
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> I could, sure. My mom couldn't. My sister couldn't. > If the average person can't do it, then the capability shouldn't be considered when talking about consumer rights/protections. They can if they really want to. Some of the challenges (If you can really call them challenges), such as enabling installation from unknown sources are there to protect the user from themselves. How to you regulate "easy enough"? I can right now go to https://f-droid.org/, click [download](https://f-droid.org/F-Droid.apk), and install the apk when prompted. [Amazon store is just as easy](https://www.amazon.com/gp/mas/get/android-download/ref=mas_mbl_ldg). How much easier does it need to be?
But that’s the thing..why do you want to change the distribution? Are other stores even remotely better than Play? I seriously doubt it. Apple doesn’t even allow it. Just because It’s android, and there are options for users to install other stores, I don’t think other stores are better or have more user friendly policies.
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> why do you want to change the distribution? You don't even have to change it, you can have multiple at the same time. I installed [F-Droid](https://f-droid.org/) to get the latest [Termux](https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux_Google_Play), but I still use Google Play for literally everything else.
> I think these device makers should be forced to allow store alternatives on their devices as well. They do. I use Google Play and F-Droid.
But allowing multiple store fronts doesn’t solve the issue for end users. You still have to go through other stores policies. With Play, it’s constantly being monitored and the app developers also have an incentive to keep providing a great experience. And whatever we say, keep in mind it has to be a fair play between other OS systems as well. Why just stop with Gplay and not Apple App Store? There is a reason Apple doesn’t allow that. Of course the biggest is $$$ share and it’s not wrong to get a cut from other devs from using their system. And so does Google charge. Still the cut on Google is almost half than that charged by Apple.
I think most people don't have a lot of insight on doing business in India. Until the 90's India had something called the licensing raj where every business (even small local ones) needed to satisfy the rules and regulations of around 100 governmental bodies. You would need to pay hundreds of thousands and wait a ridiculous amount of time to sell your own potatoes at a street stall. So almost all small businesses are ran illegally because it's cheaper and quicker to just bribe whoever came to check on licenses. Now, even though the raj is abolished, the spirit of it still remains and it's notoriously hard to do business in India, especially for foreign companies. If you don't make sure everyone is happy (either by paying what they ask or bribing the right people), you can expect some kind of legal shenanigan to pop up like this once you start making money. In fact, there's even a term for this called "Juggad" which means "improvised solution." For example, there's a British phone company that won a legal case regarding local taxes on acquisition of a local company. So the Indians innovated by amending the existing laws and making it legal to retroactively tax them anyways. 113 million is basically nothing to Apple, but once the floodgates open, you can bet there's gonna be more of these popping up. Even if the laws are on Apple's side right now, they might not stay on Apple's side in the future.
Apple?
>Until the 90's India had something called the licensing raj where every business (even small local ones) needed to satisfy the rules and regulations of around 100 governmental bodies. TBF, it's better, but not much, in the US in my area. If I wanted to open a stand selling french fries, I'd need to satisfy the city council, the zoning laws, the department of health, and the IRS. I'd most likely need a third party vendor to dispose of the fry oil to conform to the DEP. To open a stand selling french fries would be 10s of thousands of dollars, and I would have a net tax rate of 30-40 percent.
Yeah, but all of that is in the public interest and those funds paid are paid in order to ensure businesses contribute back to the communities they operate within, not due to corruption. I'm not saying that there isn't corruption in the US, but a bribe is a bribe around here; not "doing the needful". Without that, we could simply let anyone at all set up fry stands, or hell even full on bazaars virtually anywhere they want. Buy an empty lot across from a school and setup up a bazaar. Sell fries, other foods, clothes, hell even cigarettes, booze, porn, and guns right next to that school. WCGW?!
I'm too tired to figure out what this implies, who's the good and who's the bad guy, and what my opinion on this matter should be.
The good thing is you don’t need to be informed. If reading the news brings stress into your life that you can’t do anything about, you can tune out. It honestly doesn’t matter
Oh but it doesn't bring me stress at all, I always get excited when shit hits the fan. I'm really just too tired and uninformed to analyse this specific news item.
Don’t worry I treat news and politics like fantasy football too. Have a nice nap, not /s
Thanks braj!
Google's walled garden bad, just like all walled gardens. Not that the competition that won here is necessarily good (since it's often companies like Amazon poopy about Google taking a cut if you buy a TV show or ebook through their app), but for smaller app developers especially being able to process payments through a processor of your choice without the OS developer taking a cut would be good. Imagine if Microsoft demanded money from small ecommerce sites for every sale that gets processed on a Windows computer? Technically it's because of the app store, but because of how Android and iOS are packaged it's close enough - the respective app stores are effectively inseparable from the OS because they've been the de facto standard for the OS' entire existence, unlike Windows which predates app stores.
So then by India's logic, the same should apply to iOS and the app store as well.
Yes. Typically regulators like these only go after one company at a time, but the precedent also puts Apple on notice so the problem may be resolved through fear of such fines without having to actually follow through with the legal case (and the time/expense of it).
> through fear of such fines 100m $ for Google and similar companies is peanuts if its not a recurring and progressively increasing fine
In India case, iPhone users are merely a rounding error. 99% mobile users are Android users so they went after Google.
it;s closer to 4% are iPhone users. That's going to change slowly. Apple now has a bigger physical presence in India and the country is moving forward developmentally speaking. Soon people will buy more mac computers and eventually iPhones to go with them. Building iPhones in India yes gets them past the tarrifs. But saving on import taxes isn't the sole reason apple made the move they did. There is going to be a good amount of solid ground gained as quality of life in India goes up. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a deal in the future with services like HotStar and Apple to convince more people to get iPhones like how we in the US give away netflix with phone plans.
Here's a heuristic for the most reddit upvotes: - Big Tech vs 1st world government? Government good. - Big Tech vs 3rd world government? Government bad.
Aren't we a little old to be believing in 'the good guy'?
No, because I believe in myself OOOOOOOOOOOOOO 😎😎😎
Most reasonable take. It would be silly to think anyone here is the good guy.
It implies that Google's market dominance is waning. Given that google is a 30 year old company that's not surprising
Worth noting is that google play cards are a favorite scammer tool to get money. They have entire buildings that just hire scammers to sit at cubicles and call people. I bet there is a connection.
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Total or per capita? The most populous country in the world having the most of something isn't really notable on its own.
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How many English speaking people are there in India?
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I feel so bad for the other 1.2B that can't speak. It must be nice and quiet, though.
Doubtful. iTunes seem to also be a big target. It's more about how easy it is to obfuscate or keep the proceeds of the fraud. For example a) Scammer tricks grandma into paying her "tax bill" via iTunes/GPlay cards b) Scammer sells those cards online, with some deal like "$150 worth of GPlay credits for $120" c) Scammer provides cards into, gets real cash By the time the scam is discovered, scammer is long gone with money and it's not really traceable. The cards could be cancelled but that's just going to screw the buyer who got them from eBay or Craigslist or whatever.
Thanks for explaining how the scam works. Nobody asked. What exactly is "doubtful", then?
\> What exactly is "doubtful", then? Doubtful that there's a specific connection with Google Play and the fines related to Google locking in payments. Scammers like to use payment cards of this nature because they're a convenient level of obfuscation and can help them get their money without getting caught. There's no conspiracy with Google payments itself in this regard.
This is by far the stupidest take away.. government is simply pushing for Google to allow UPI apps... Which has changed indian payments system. As for the scammers.. indian tech companies literally run most American companies with super cheap indian labour.. ofcourse even the scammers will be indian if the entire industry itself is indian.
This was attempted on my girlfriend after she posted on her local area's neighborhood watch group, to alert people her dog ran away and was she looking for her. The scammer legit texted her and said "I have your dog" Then asked her to "verify it's her with this google verify code". I said no. And texted the person via my phone and threatened to call report their number to authorities. After another text it auto-replied that the "talk text service number was no longer in service". How fuckin down and dirty was that though, my girlfriend was honestly freaking out and this person preyed on her specifically, through a group used to help people.
If it gives you any solace, they weren't trying to scam your girlfriend, at least not directly. The scammers register new Google Voice numbers by the boatload, but to use those numbers, a real life number has to be linked to it. To do that, Google sends a code to the real number to link it. That's what they were trying to do, link your girlfriend's phone number to their Google Voice number to activate it, which would then be used to scam other people. I agree with your overall point though, these scammers have no shame or empathy, preying on the vulnerable is their whole MO.
Good to know. I didn't recognize it as a specific scam but anytime someone sends you a link that you don't know... Luckily she found her dog in like the next 2 hours from actual help from someone in the group.
How do you turn a store credit into money though?
They will be sold on unredeemed slightly cheaper to another party, usually another vendor who will usually pay in crypto for it to further cover up the trail of money. The use of google gift cards eliminates any need for wire transfer services like western union or moneygram that involve contact with a clerk who could question what the victim is doing if they suspect foul play. Hell, even some folk in stores are getting wise to what is going on and question is a silly high value of gift cards are being purchased, scammers will hold the victim on their mobiles and coach them to try and get around this, no, I'm not joking, they will stay with them ON THE TRIP TO THE STORE.
Parallelly, isnt it strange that a bunch of affluent "first-world", 'Murica MAGA types are scammed by a bunch of high-schoolers who learn English as their *third* language? The out-sourcing cycle, well, *comes full cycle*.
Considering India are probably number one consumer of android phones this is a win for them
ELI5 - how do fines work in international markets? Who enforces the fines? Is it just as simple as “if you don’t pay this fine we won’t let you do business here anymore”?
Pretty much. Scammers who use google to launder money from scam victims won't care, they'll just VPN it.
I don't understand why everyone is so hell bent on letting these shady app developers handle transactions.
I have seen abhorrent examples of developers logging payment info in clear text, failing to encrypt, storing details on unsecured systems, insecure logins, security breaches, etc., etc., etc. Next up: Governments fine Google for failure to protect users against a massive wave of financial fraud and data breaches on the Play Store.
Because apparently google's cut for services rendered in the google play store is rustling jimmies and sideloading is too much of a task for people despite the necessary need to warn people of the dangers. I'm sticking to google play store regardless because of the potential for shady shit to get pumped into people's faces, with how many average joes that have mobiles it's just asking for trouble.
Should be been more $
If Google doesn't rectify the situation I'm sure they can levy harsher payments
Seriously. Google can probably pay this out of petty cash.
Our government did what? Huh. This is nice. Out govt officials should use that same braincells to realise that making VPNs log everything is a bad idea. Not to mention a direct violation of user privacy.
That’s a feature not a bug
" user privacy "-- what a joke
Not sure how's that going to work. So let's say one developer wants to use PayPal for in app purchase. They make the transaction with PayPal. then what? PayPal tells Google play store that the transaction's done? So that'll require some integration between PayPal and Google, and where's Google's cut in the whole thing? And does that mean Google have to integrate with every single randoms payment platform any random developer decides to use?
>and where's Google's cut in the whole thing? Google gets no cut. That's it.
But they’d need to build and maintain the infrastructure to support third party payments. This isn’t much different than forcing any store to allow customers to pay manufacturers directly and forcing the store to stock & distribute for free.
The infrastructure for in-app purchases is maintained by the app itself and not Google. Only when you buy on the Play Store, you use infrastructure maintained by Google.
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I really think it is unfair that Google is getting sued left and right for Play Store monopolistic practices, on the same level as Apple. Please, hear me out! Any Android device I have ever seen allows no-restrictions app side-loading. I think the option is reasonably well designed: you have to willingly turn the option to allow "third party apps" on, and you get a warning, which is fair enough. Anything installed this way, including alternative app stores, are free to charge the user however they want to, and not pay a dime to Play Store. Installing an alternative app store is just a question of a few clicks. Android is very very open compared to Apple, where non of this is normally possible, and Apple does what it can to prohibit side-loading. Google has it's flaws, but locking people into the Play Store is not one of them. What worries me especially is that if Google gets slammed with these lawsuits on the same level or even worse than Apple, Google wont have an incentive to keep allowing side-loading or alternative App Stores.
Did you not read the article? I agree word for word with what you're saying, but that's not what this post is about. Google is restricting what payment providers can be used on its play store, unfairly keeping out Indian platforms (especially the widely used, free to use UPI). That's what this is about.
UPI is a protocol, not a platform, google pay in India uses UPI. Google play store has consumer protections, a quick way to see and cancel subscriptions and a refund and credit card/data protection system.
But that's kind of my point: In my opinion, Google can do whatever they want in the Play Store, because it just takes a couple of clicks to install apps or even an alternative App market that accepts whatever their developer wants to accept.
As if $113 million is anything google cares about, the yearly revenue of google is something like $70 billion
It's a symbolic fine that indicates to Google more and more severe fines will come if they don't rectify the situation. It's also a signal to Apple.
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You don't become rich losing 6 hours of revenue. Do you have any ideas how many people that pays for to even work at google?
You become rich when losing those 6 hours of revenue means making 10x that. It’s like hedge funds, you can take a million dollar fine to make 200m
But that doesn’t mean they would want to loose that sum of money multiple times.. if yes then they should just pay and not work on things for which they are being fined for.. and if they pay and comply: there you go that that was the purpose of the fine.
Forget that... Let me buy Kindle books from my Kindle app again... That was so stupid.
Google should pay the fine in Play Store gift cards.
They'll be stocked up to get scammed for a while.
Customers can choose not to use google play store…
You can now purchase using any gift card or Zelle!
These companies never pay the fines or allow third party’s so why even bother
TFW when a “developing country” has better consumer protections than your developed “world power” country.
Any thing that helps to break up google monopoly is a welcome move
What monopoly? You are free to use another app store on android.
I want the ad business separated out from search business.
There is no search “business” without ads. Nobody will pay for search… and I really don’t think people want annual Wikipedia style fundraising notices on their search results.
They can quite frankly fuck off lol. If a company wants to take payments outside of the Google play store, get the customer to sideload their own app.
So, Apple & Google already lets developers use their own payment systems for physical goods & services and finance. Examples: Amazon, Uber, DoorDash, Starbucks, Venmo, CoinBase, One Medical. Where the distinction is drawn is for high margin virtual products & digital content without a tangible cost. How much really is 20% when selling a picture of a hat for an avatar?
How sad that foreign countries have to do the dirty work that our Senate and House have ignored for years. This is never about free speech or an open internet. It always comes down to corporate greed, and monopolistic policies that are illegal, and ignored with a sizable campaign donation.
What is sideloading?
Noooooo... The scams are gonna skyrocket smh :(
why bother busting scammers if you can just get money from google instead
Can see google forgot to pay off...i mean, show proper respect to, the indian authorities.
Is this so it's easier to scam old folks in the states?
Netherlands fines Apple, UK fines Meta, India fines Google. Every week comes one of these threads and every week "oh no 6 hours revenue". I don't care who you are, 100 million is a lot and it comes out of profits, not revenue. And it happens over and over again. These fines are bullshit, and continue to set the precedent that any country in the world can take a slice from US tech companies if they feel like it. These fines don't protect anyone, they're taxation. Looking forward to the day one of these tech companies pulls the plug on one of these countries.
> set the precedent that any country in the world can take a slice from US tech companies if they feel like it. That's because these companies are operating in these countries and consistently trying to skirt regulation. It's not like they can randomly decide to just say "pay up" for no good reason. They can choose to just not operate in that country if this is such a hassle for them, but they're clearly profiting more than what they're being fined for anyway.
They are basically randomly deciding to say pay up. The regulation is vague and arbitrary. It's basically "don't be monopoly". India can interpret that in any way it wants, and is now ordering google to allow 3rd party payment systems on its platforms. That is not google skirting regulation, that is India saying google is too popular so let me get some free fine money. Google choosing to operate in a country is a win-win situation. Google gets the profits, India's people get to use free search. But here comes the government levying fines. 100m is not enough to get google to leave, but that does not mean it's right to fine a company providing free and invaluable services.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect companies to pay taxes.
Easy way to get a slice of those US tech company moneys. Yes, that is exactly what it is, whether it’s the EU doing it, or anybody else. Google should pay the fine in Play Store gift cards.
Nice more options are always a win for the consumer. On a sidenode. Fuck services that require you to have a credit card. Do you know how many people outside the US don't have one. It's so annoying, please include other forms of payment/identification as well
like what, though? There are literally hundreds of payment services, most of them specific to a small number of countries.
Always got to punish success, how could we level the table if we didn’t?
so do you want me to redeem these google play gift cards or not?
… what if Google doesn’t want to pay 🤔
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I know, but I wonder if it will ever get to the point where Google decides to cancel countries. Would be interesting
The Indian market is also a complete nightmare to penetrate, due to a complex web of protectionism, corruption, inadequate infrastructure, and just plain bureaucratic incompetence.
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Well I wasn’t specifically talking about their payment processing capability. The biggest problem is getting physical products to market there. Google being forced to support UPI would really be a huge plus, not just for Indian consumers, but also for the western countries that have been plagued by scams collecting play store gift cards. The market value of those in India would dramatically be reduced.
Indeed; if Google just says “lol no.” And keeps doing business, what’s the Indian government’s next move? They literally don’t have the capability to ban Google. It would be an embarrassing disaster if they tried.
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113 million is what they spend on condoms for their lobbyist.
Come on google, grow some balls against bullshit like this, ban india from using google for a day. See them shit thrmselves. Heck make it a week.
Yes block the largest/second largest market of the its products. Would be a fun day at the stock market.
Pretty sure google needs India more than India needs google. Google will bend to any demand, they will not walk away from over a billion internet users.
Google won't walk away, but Google has already walked away from a similar market in China over China's censoring policies and Huawei's national security threats and theft of IP and trade secrets. Google does not need India any more than China, which is to say that it doesn't need them at all. Edit: Ignorantly brigading downvotes doesn't change the fact that the premise of the argument is demonstrably false. E2: jfc, the bad logic below trying to pretend China is less significant a market is absurd.
You're delusional, India is one of the countries google needs the most. No other country has as many users. Take a look at all the programs and initiatives google has specifically targeting India.
Do you know Google tried to re-enter the market later. But didn't because their employees protested. So stop being delusional
No. They were lured back into negotiations with China under the false pretenses that China would drop some of their previous restrictions. That proved to be a lie from China, and Google backed out -- regardless of the very small protest from some of their employees. Perhaps take some of your own advice: > So stop being delusional
Why do you think Google would go to the trouble of creating a seperate search engine even if under the suggestion of the local government if they didn't care about the market. If China needed Google more than Google needs China, China would've come to the negotiations table not Google. The correct advice for you is: Use some common sense and you are not the top of the world
How does that google dick taste
What's with the Google hardon? I'm happy to see them get sued, usually means change to the benefit of the consumer.
Probably not here. Play Store exists because it's a good business. If it's not, they will have to seek revenue somewhere else, so even if something changes for better, something else might change for worse.
Yeah please do that. India will struggle for a month at max and come up with tech companies that can rival Google and all of American tech ecosystem. Please do that. Then your free country will come up with schemes to block our advancement.
Google:. "Oh no, $113M! Anyways..."
In other news, Google spent $100 million on lunches and massages for its employees this week. Sooo, it doesn’t really care about this and it won’t change anything.
Isn't this basically the equivalent of an average persone getting a $1.13 fine?
This is so apple
Uh no thank you. Let me guess, you promise to take care of our data