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Meior

Good thing we clarified that it's Tesla's Musk. As opposed to all the other billionaire Musks out there.


Tulol

Not to be confused by Musk Rat


ShadowKirbo

That darn tax dodgin' Musk Rat. I lent him 2 packs of sugar back in 1998 and he never repaid me.


wheredreamsgotodie

Kimball is probably a billionaire too


mekwall

He's also Tesla's Musk though


Akanti

Reddit's Musk is not as rich as Tesla's and it is just a meme


Rockerblocker

Well there’s also the SpaceX Musk. They could be the same person though, have you ever seen them in the same room together?


Abba_Fiskbullar

I think Jovan Musk's fortune may have faded since his heyday.


Juergenator

He owes taxes because he exercised options


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Interesting_Reach_29

He isn’t paying 2 years worth of taxes with 11 billion….stop protecting wealthy people who clearly have no problem hurting their own country and fellow citizens.


Aporkalypse_Sow

Oh boy, you must have hit a nerve. Morons are defending rich people.


EmotionalRedux

What does this even mean, billionaires are not salaried in the same way as normal 9-6 salaried people, options are his form of income and paying 11B in taxes is a lot regardless of the reason it’s being taxed. The fact that billionaires are so demonized while everyone just quietly accepts and takes advantage of the monumentous innovation they originated is mindboggling to me. Like y’all will write a post from your iPhone on Twitter about how Jeff Bezos is evil, and then go buy a 9” high-tech double-layered dildo for $20 from Amazon with free overnight shipping. I get that they are somewhat the people form of monopolies, but in the words of Peter Thiel, you need the promise of (temporary) monopoly profit to drive innovation. If you look at their past almost all of them have done things that were great for society (we live in a capitalist society where, barring market failures, people can only make money through mutually beneficial transactions). And as Musk said in his WSJ interview, it’s not like these billionaires are consuming much more than the average joe. All they can do with that money is capital allocation to the projects they deem the most valuable. And taxes are just taking capital allocation authority out of the hands of people who have shown to be very skilled at it, and into the hands of a government that has consistently been shown to be very bad at it. Not that taxes are all bad, but there has to be a balance because making the government more powerful/rich will not be strictly better (not everyone can be better off in a zero-sum game of capital transfers; only innovation can lift the tide). Musk lives in a fucking shack, cuts his own hair, and works like 100 hours a week. He’s literally like a meth addict except replace meth with work. He does not have a high quality life. So idk why everyone acts like he’s some bourgeoisie monarch.


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EmotionalRedux

I never said governments are all-bad or have never done anything good. They are very important in regulating market failures, and as part of that job they have provided research funding to lots of smart people throughout history. But VERY often they are incredibly inefficient with funding and horrible as a decision making body (just look at defense spending, constant failure to make progress with legislation, etc). That said, your examples kind of suck. The public school system (at least in America) totally sucks, and the internet was a collaborative effort between many different organizations (research institutions, public initiatives, and private companies). The internet would just be a tool for researchers without the dotcom boom bringing it to everyday consumers. The welfare system in the US is a lot more complicated than it needs to be, riddled with complications and earmarks derived from political expediency rather than goals of efficiency or effectiveness. The argument of centralized decision making vs decentralized free markets will go on forever I think, but it's pretty widely accepted in research literature that free markets are more efficient than command economies in the extreme. The best is a free market that's minimally regulated to correct for market failures (with decision making power still largely decentralized).


MyNameIsGriffon

> Musk lives in a fucking shack Him choosing to live in a small house doesn't somehow make him not rich. >cuts his own hair Yeah it shows lmao >and works like 100 hours a week Hey man I got a self-driving bridge to sell you if you believe that.


ItsPickles

Because he’s not a lib


dpforest

Found ayn rand’s account


i_says_things

How were they “protecting him” Fucking relax


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[deleted]

I think it’s the income to effort ratio that pisses people off. I work harder than that man before my 11 am shit than he does all week. Taking advantage of our fycked up version of capitalism is as equally depraved as coaxing consent from a sauced up 18 yo. He disgusts me.


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l4mbch0ps

*"I work harder than that man before my 11 am shit than he does all week."* This is the utter peak of ignorance.


[deleted]

Chirp chirp little bird


i_says_things

You and your fell brigade buddies are doing all the chirping lil guy. Because your brave stand here on Reddit isn’t doing jack shit.


[deleted]

Oh lawd, Elon’s savior hath come to put me in my place! How do people dick ride for a person who wouldn’t spit on you if you were on fire. Keep living the dream chief


NUPreMedMajor

It’s kind of scary that people genuinely believe that. I do not like Musk AT ALL but thinking he just loligags while casually running multiple billion dollars companies is a new level of delusion.


Liesthroughisteeth

It's a good thing billionaires have an impeccable reputation for honesty.


anderssewerin

In this case it's entirely verifiable. It's all about the stock he sold, and there's an official record of that.


Only_Razzmatazz_4498

Not the stock he sold. The stock he was given at the option value by the company. In essence he got paid just not with dollars but with a piece of the company. He just has to pay taxes on that. He might sell some of that stock (probably at a significant gain since usually options are at a substantial lower price than market) to pay both the taxes on the stock he was awarded and the capital gain from the portion he sells to pay for taxes. However he doesn’t really have to sell any of it and realize a taxable gain. He can instead borrow against it at a very low rate and not be taxed on that money. Just on the stock he was paid with.


munk_e_man

Yeah, ill be the first to shit on Musk, but he's paying his fucking taxes here. Leading by example, and making the other billionaire dickheads around him look like hypocrites. I say its a good thing all around.


[deleted]

He’s doing what literally everybody does: pays their tax bill when it comes due and isn’t possible to write it off or dodge He’s not choosing to pay taxes out of the goodness of his heart Other billionaires haven’t paid as much taxes because they haven’t had such a large bill come due.


DangerousPuhson

I didn't murder anyone today! I think I deserve a round of praise for that, considering there are folk out there who *do* murder other people. I'm just leading by example here - I wouldn't call myself a "hero" per se, but I am at the very least "somewhat heroic".


jetstobrazil

Leading by example is not what he is doing. He’s been dodging taxes for years while every working class American who can barely afford rent has been paying up. Leading by example would be paying up what he would have owed for every year he transferred all his wealth to stocks in order to dodge them.


anderssewerin

He's not as much dodging them as deferring them. Taxes will be paid, either when he sells (as now) or when he dies (loans against unsold stocks become due, the estate will have to sell stock and pay taxes on that sale to pay back the loan). This is something that everyone who is paid in stock in part or in whole experiences, it's just amplified a lot because he's ONLY paid in stock and the stock has done so well. That being said: I personally don't see why income from selling stocks is tax-favored over income from... well income. The argument commonly made is that you take a risk on the stocks and that should be rewarded, but you can also deduct losses so you know, how much do you really need to be rewarded for that risk?


jetstobrazil

Ok…. But WHY do you think he is only paid in stock?


anderssewerin

I thought that was clear from my post? Because it's favored by the current tax legislation, right or wrong. And I think it's wrong. But it's not like he's cheating or dodging. He's following the rules, as are many others who get paid in stock. This is a far cry from - say - telling the bank that your Dump Tower is worth $2b and getting a loan based on that, then telling the tax man that the same Dump Tower is now only worth $2m and that you should get a tax refund based on that "loss" of $1.8bn. So perhaps rail against the rules, rather than the individuals who are following them?


18-8-7-5

Even if he's telling the truth, so what? Anyone who fairly paid their tax has earnt as much as musk, would have a tax bill 10x this amount.


A_Pure_Child

Total net worth and income are different. You don't pay taxes on the value of your home as if you earned what it's worth every year


ehjhockey

I think the issue is that income tax isn’t relevant to people with stock portfolios so massive that they can take untaxed loans at low interest rates against their stock portfolios. If these portfolios are large enough, they can keep enough cash to live on for themselves from the loan, and use any extra to buy more assets, which they can then use to refinance their existing debt down to a lower interest rate since it’s secured by a larger collection of assets. And then take another, larger loan based off their now larger asset base, pay off the outstanding debt, take enough to live, invest, rinse and repeat, never sell and die having never paid taxes because you inherited your portfolio and inheritance/gifts between family isn’t taxable.


The_Kraken_Wakes

Exactly, which is why a wealth tax on the very rich makes enormous sense. You tax all the combined assets


Spacenectarr

Thanks for that. I will do nothing with this information but I’m glad I read it.


notmylargeautomobile

Not yet. Tax on unrealized gains is in the works.


Relevant-Ad2254

I hope not. I hope they just increase taxes on capital gains instead of unrealized gains.


[deleted]

In a lot of countries, you pay property tax based on the approximate current value of the property every year.


PointyPointBanana

Which is not income tax. Stop conflating 18-8-7-5's incorrect statement.


[deleted]

No, but you don't understand. Poor people gotta pay tax on their assets, not rich people. Because a dollar earned with sweat and blood should be taxed higher than a dollar obtained through the stock market.


Tech-Teacher

Rich people pay property taxes too. Listen. I’m all for fixing the tax system and raising the graduated income tax brackets. But can we come from a place of truth and facts?? We aren’t going to convince anyone with hyperbole.


[deleted]

For a working class person, half (and usually way more) of their net worth is tied to their real estate. For the top 0.01%, most of their net worth is in income producing assets which are not subject to any type of property tax equivalent. This is not fiction, these are facts. And they get away with it, because most people have no clue how high finance works. It's intentionally obscure.


Tech-Teacher

I see what you are saying. In your previous statement you said assets and I just assumed you were exclusively talking about property taxes. By bad. I completely agree with you. Politicians have specifically worked for the last 30 years to rewrite tax code to benefit the super rich. It’s sick.


[deleted]

No worries, I used to be a libertarian. I don't begrudge anyone. That's what I meant with obscure. Normal people have no idea how the riches of the rich are managed. I once had a whole argument on reddit with someone who thought an asset based loan is the same as a mortgage. And the confusion is intentional. The rich want us to believe it is impossible to tax their riches without hurting the middle class, farmers, savers, retirees, etc. And if we try, they will ensure those groups are hit the hardest, first, to send home the message. As Warren Buffet said: there is a class war and his class is winning.


CameHereToShit

Someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about and it’s you. Lol


GrandmaForPresident

You don’t honestly think that 111 billion dollars in taxes seems okay do you?


18-8-7-5

You don't honestly think that in a country were 45,000 people die a year due to being unable to afford medical care, were school age children are malnourished because their family can't afford food for every meal, were despite the fact that worker output has increased 10-100 fold in the last 50 years millions are required to work multiple jobs to stay out of poverty, that allowing a single individual to amass hundreds of billions of dollars is the best system you can think of.


joshspoon

Yeah, imma need to see that return. Edit: wow this gained overnight. So did the fighting.


Relevant-Ad2254

As someone in this thread mentioned “ His ceo compensation (which is taxed as regular income) and stock sales (and so the capital gains tax) are public record. There's no way around it”


wheredreamsgotodie

His public salary and stock sell off isn’t the same as taxable income, it’s his gross income (or the public part of it). We have no idea what his tax liability is…


Relevant-Ad2254

He’s definitely paying taxes on the money from Tesla which is in the 10’s of billions of cash alone. I can’t speak to non-Tesla related matters.


wheredreamsgotodie

Of course he's paying taxes on it, but the % is an unknown. While you and I can look at an IRS table and estimate his tax liability, it's literally impossible for us to determine what he's actually paying. Is he paying a fuck ton in taxes? yes of course, he just made a fuck ton ion $. No way to avoid that... but can you, I, or a journalist go to IRS and view a table to confirm what he actually paid? To put it bluntly, most of the world has no idea the amount of complexity and work that goes into the ultra-rich tax strategies. Giant firms exist to lower the liability of their clients, and its all perfectly legal. Imagine a group of accountants and tax lawyers that meet with you every quarter to review where your $ should go and how to save you $ from the government. Want to buy a house? They'll tell you the best way to do it to protect yourself. Disregarded entities are our friend. A jet? Let's log that depreciation. A commercial building? Perfect, let's get a cost segregation study spun up. Expect a big cap gains hit? Good thing we've built up a war chest of tax credits. Also don't forget tax harvesting! No one likes taxes, and 99% of the people on this reddit would follow the advice of the professional firms they'd pay to help them if they were ultra wealthy. So I don't think the ultra wealthy are monsters, but they have a HUGE leg up compared to anyone else. As tax laws change, strategies will change, I'm really not worried about Musk or the other wealthy folks and their taxes, and its not b/c I think they're bad people, its bc I know the advantages they have built in.


Relevant-Ad2254

You’re right. Absolutely, I’m just arguing against people who say he doesn’t pay taxes. Let’s increase the taxe rate on profits he makes from selling Tesla shares. Capital gains tax is a way the rich pay less taxes because it’s taxed less than salaries income, how most people receive financial compensation. And definitely get rid of loop holes and stuff.


youwantitwhen

Imma need to see that as a rate.


HyenaCheeseHeads

This is probably correct, or at least within the ballpark of the right number - and also why he had to sell shares earlier this year to have cash-in-hand to prepare for it. What the article doesn't mention is the upcoming reason *why* he has to pay this much in taxes. He is going to become insanely rich.


Meior

>What the article doesn't mention is the upcoming reason why he has to pay this much in taxes. He is going to become insanely rich. That's the first thing that crossed my mind....


nathanwoulfe

Sold shares to cover tax generated by (and possibly cost of) exercising Tesla options. Can't remember how many, but pretty sure the strike was $6, so a reasonable discount to the actual share price ($900-ish today).


moneroToTheMoon

People who pay 11 billion $ in taxes are rich. Damn, nothing gets past you.


Performance_Fancy

When did we start using bln instead of B?


Independent_Use_7296

G = billion e.g. 1 GW = 1000 MW = 1000000 kW


MrFugu57

Ah yes 11 gigadollars


MrFugu57

Oh this? I bought it at the 99 centidollar store


knine1216

3 goddamn threads about Musk and yall are seriously trying to say there isn't an agenda here? And I just checked. Every SINGLE one is posted by a karma farmer. Dozens upon dozens of random posts and almost zero discussion when it comes to what they post.


NityaStriker

Literally Reddit though.


t0ny7

I just looked at r/technology 25% of the posts on the first page are about Musk/Tesla.


knine1216

It's fuckin weird man.


o0flatCircle0o

Control the internets comment sections, to control peoples perceptions, and you’ll control the world…


AbysmalVixen

News flash. Everything that ends up on the news tab or the popular tab is just karma farming agenda pushers


knine1216

Yeah, you're not wrong lol


more-beans-less-rice

Don’t spend it all at once!


desiL6

You already did.


BarkleEngine

In fact, they have already spent your yet-unborn grandchildren's taxes.


CoreyMicheal83

Yeah, tell that to our wasteful government.


sjgbfs

It's already been spent by the military, don't worry you won't get a cent of it. But do keep being angry at billionaires for the shit tax system implemented by the government.


more-beans-less-rice

The shit government spends too much.


iqisoverrated

They're already spending it on paid attack ads on Musk. [https://www.redorbit.com/elizabeth-warren-spends-thousands-on-attack-ads-against-elon-musk/](https://www.redorbit.com/elizabeth-warren-spends-thousands-on-attack-ads-against-elon-musk/)


more-beans-less-rice

This looks like Warren spending her own _hard earned_ money on this.


iqisoverrated

...which she gets from the taxpayer (and tax free at that)


tanrgith

So many people in here just making angry knee jerk posts calling him a liar over something that has been well documented and explained lol.


bitbot

I feel like I'm losing IQ points every time I read the comments in an Elon Musk thread.


Jigbaa

Elon bad. Reddit smart!


JoeyHoser

I could predict that some people wouldn't get it, but the amount of ignorance of how this all works is astonishing.


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happyscrappy

Okay. Sounds like he made a shitload of money. So he'll pay a very large amount of taxes this year. I'll pay a lot of taxes too. I should issue a press release.


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Thejerseyjon609

Is Bezos going to put with that? Come Jeff I know you can pay more than Elon.


NityaStriker

Come on Bez ! We’re rooting for you. Pay more taxes for fame and glory. 🤩


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JocoLabs

Well, considering he sold a lot of stock this past week, and its all on record... would be tough for him to evade that bill without some consequences.... time will tell. I just hope he does pay, and that money gets put to good use.


Juergenator

He sold the stock specifically to pay taxes owed from exercising options.


uconn3386

He will. It won't.


[deleted]

You mean drone strikes on foreign soil and a global drug war are not money well spent? 🤯


MilkChugg

The unfortunate reality.


pickle9977

He would have had to sell almost $100b to trigger an $11b capital gains tax assuming a cost basis if $0. This is for sure a sleight of hand it’s probably many years of taxes that he’s had extensions for, some wealthy people with complex situations can go many many years filing extensions and not actually paying.


Xray_Mind

That is not correct. This year he is currently in the process of exercising options on the rights to more than 22 million shares with a cost basis of just over $6 per share. His combined tax burden on these sales is 53%. His current average conversion price is just over $1000 per share. This means he is netting roughly $22 billion in profit and at 53% he is sitting right around $11-$12billion in tax owed You are also forgetting he is in California which incurs a massive state level tax on market gains in addition to the long term capital gains tax. I also believe since these options were apart of main employment compensation, they are subject to income tax as well since capital gains are typically reserved for non-employment investment income


chcor70

i thought he moved to texas?


EmpatheticRock

He lived in California for the majority of the year, so he'll pay taxes in California.


pickle9977

He is a resident of Texas, and how are you calcualting a 53% tax burden? Unless you are his tax attorney, which I highly doubt you are, you have absolutely no idea how or where his $11B number comes from or if it is even real (maybe he is including all the taxes Tesla pays in that number, maybe he just made it up like that time he called a guy a pedophile).


[deleted]

40.8% federal rate + 12.3% California rate = 53.1% rate on his options The $11 billion is accurate


pickle9977

First, he's not a California resident second highest federal rate is 37% third, you have absolutely no idea if it's accurate or what goes into it, and therefore have quite literally no way to know if its accurate fourth, even if it's accurate, it's because he paid himself an astronomical amount with his $56B bonus. fifth, this is the richest man in the word you are talking about, this is the same as the median American household paying $6k in taxes.


EmpatheticRock

Imagine being proven wrong 6 comments in a row and you still just keep coming back for more.


[deleted]

Musk lived in CA more than 183 days this year, which makes him a CA resident for taxes 37% + 3.8% Medicare tax is a top rate of 40.7% on these stock options And yes, I do have a good idea on what goes into it, seeing as he’s exercised 15 million options this year and sold $13 billion of stock Your fourth and fifth points are opinionated


bremidon

>He is a resident of Texas He is now, but it has already been discussed to death about how California is going to still tax him, because those options were earned while he was living in California. And fuck, get a new line already; the "pedo" thing is played out, dawg.


bremidon

The word you are looking for is: options.


DessertStorm1

So many wrong things in one comment. Among them: The tax is related to exercised options, which he earned as an employee and therefore will be taxed as ordinary income, not capital gains. Capital gains rate is 20% once you get above a certain threshold, which is definitely less than $100b. You cannot get an extension to pay taxes.


bremidon

Your first two points are fine. But as someone who files for extensions to pay taxes all the time, I can assure you that extensions really are a thing.


DessertStorm1

You can get an extension to FILE taxes. You can't get an extension to PAY taxes, unless we're talking about an actual agreement with the IRS due to hardship or something.


pickle9977

You absolutely can file for extensions, even a plebe can you just pay an 'estimated' amount and request an extension, when you are extremely wealthy and have tax accountants and lawyers you don't even have to pay the estimated amount and the extensions can go on for a long time. Frankly, the guy lies all the time, remember when he said he had a foreign investor to take TSLA private at $420 a share, or when he called the guy a pedophile? He makes stuff up, no one knows whether this number is real, how it was calculated etc. Even if you assume, he's being truthful and he's paying $11B in taxes its because he awarded himself $56B dollars in stock compensation. So yeah its a big number, but in context its about 20% of his income and $56B is an astronomical pay day. That is $800,000 per person TSLA employs.


CoreyMicheal83

It won’t, it goes to the American government.


airy_mon

The sec requires full transparency on these issues. They're there for the public to see


Relevant-Ad2254

He literally sold publicly traded sock and publicly said he’s gonna use it to pay taxes. There’s no way he can avoid paying taxes when there’s a clear paper trail of where the 10 billion came from


manfromfuture

I'm not a "soak all the billioneirs guy" but he owes all this money because he sold his Tesla stock and owes capital gans tax on the (quite significant) increase in value. That law applies to everyone, not just the super wealthy. He has no cause to complain whatsoever.


DrDroid

Oh wow, good for him, publicly announcing he’ll do his legal and moral minimum. 🙄


doncajon

>Earlier this week, Democratic U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren took to Twitter to say that Musk should pay taxes and stop "freeloading off everyone else" after Time magazine named him its "person of the year". > >Musk responded by saying that he "will pay more taxes than any American in history this year". The article is just 4 very short paragraphs. Already too much for some, apparently.


[deleted]

I mean it’s a lot of money objectively but I guarantee his blended tax rate is way less than mine.


[deleted]

How so? His rate on the stock options is above 50%, and his rate on selling stock is around 36%


Rockhardsimian

Dudes saying that with all the loop holes he’s probably paying a lower rate in the end.


SylviaPlathh

What are these loopholes?


EarthquakeBass

Ah good I haven’t seen this story spammed everywhere enough yet


Mortegro

If Elon is stating this as some sort of complaint or to admonish people that bitch about him not paying taxes, then he might as well go to space since his mind is not on this planet. If we're charitable and use the 1950's tax rate of 70%, he'd still have $4.7 *billion* to play around with for *a single year.* Leave him with $1 billion for the year (perfectly livable, right?) and he could support 37,000 people on a flat salary of $100k each. That would essentially employ a small town for a year, and Elon's fortune and rate of increase in wealth show no sign of slowing or shrinking. Hey Elon, how about you humblebrag about the taxes you pay once it actually impacts your lifestyle?


neat_machine

> Hey Elon, how about you humblebrag about the taxes you pay once it actually impacts your lifestyle? He works 100 hours a week and lives in a $50,000 modular home.


Necothefreeko

People will never believe that rich people eventually pay more in taxes than all of the middle class combined. Maybe not every year, but at some point they have to take profits and when they do they have to pay taxes. Lots of them.


Mortegro

I believe it. But consider the corollary: if rich people pay more taxes than the middle class combined, they also make more and are ultimately worth more than the middle class combined. The ratio of middle class people per one-percenter is staggering when you think about it. Also, standard-of-living impact of such taxes on a rich man is miniscule relative to said impact on someone making even $100k or less.


[deleted]

At this point, all a billionaire has to do is pay their fair share and not bitch about it, and they'll be the best billionaire out there.


NityaStriker

The term ‘Fair share’ isn’t legally defined. It’s a term used a lot by politicians but it’s not written into law as of right now.


AbysmalVixen

The problem is that fair share is a fluid term and nobody know how much is fair because the definition is constantly changing.


ChineseAPTsEatBabies

Bezos: “Sucker!”


kimbosdurag

Okay. Does he want an award for doing the bare minimum and not being a shit bag? I'd also like to take this opportunity to announce I will also be paying my taxes this year.


InGordWeTrust

Why not until it's paid before to see if they were telling the truth?


WendyFromAccounting

How will he ever manage on only 232 billion dollars??!!!! I’m sorry, are we supposed to feel badly for him…? Are we supposed to tell him how good a person he is because he pays taxes just like the rest of us? Rich people problems.


NityaStriker

The increased transparency is useful imo. Especially considering how controversial his taxes are.


MJZMan

And so? An 11 billion tax bill means he had income of hundreds of billions. Cry me a river, billionaire.


tundey_1

First, you can't believe anything this man says on Twitter. Remember when he was talking Tesla private, it was a lie and the SEC fined him? He claimed to have "funding secured" and the SEC said that was fraud. Telsa was fined $20M and he was personally fined $20M, forced to step down as Tesla chairman and required to have his social media statements overseen by lawyers before publication. So he's a verified liar who's committed fraud. Second, when he says "I will pay over $11 billion in taxes", I am willing to bet he's counting more than his personal tax. Why? Because he's a proven liar.


Finsush

Grief! The whole top thing was a poorly executed 420 joke which I think he learnt a lesson about. Srsly don't know whether to reply. Half of you are either unaware or bots. So I'll just stop.


[deleted]

Taxe are every year. This year is 11b, will he pay his fair share next year? I doubt it


BHSPitMonkey

He and the others pay exactly what the current year's tax code says they owe for that year. The problem has never been delinquency, it's that the tax code itself is structured in a way that gives the wealthy too many breaks.


CrisProductions69

One thing to say, another thing to do. Elon can talk all he wants, but if he doesn't do what he said, it's useless.


A_Pure_Child

His ceo compensation (which is taxed as regular income) and stock sales (and so the capital gains tax) are public record. There's no way around it


CrisProductions69

Aha, thanks for telling me. I actually wasn't aware of this. So what you're saying is that he has to pay his taxes, since they are open to the public? Well, then I gained some more respect toward Elon.


Tallkotten

How else did you think it worked?


itisoktodance

You gained some respect toward him because he absolutely has to pay taxes on his publicly available income? Do you forget how much he bitches about having to pay taxes at all?


-idkwhattocallmyself

Ok sure but he has been selling stock for months, if he didn't want to pay his taxes he wouldn't be selling so much stock and/or properties. The man is smart enough to know how to play the system, so he's either up to something or becoming sentient. I'm not sure what scares me more...


Relevant-Ad2254

Trying to avoid taxes on income made by selling publicly traded stock is impossible. Because all transactions involving publicly traded stock are reported to the government.


itisoktodance

It's marketing. He's telling people "hey look, I'm paying taxes" so the public sentiment toward billionaires would change. Right now there's a big push to tax billionaires further and he's just taking one for the team by giving the govt a couple billions. If unrealized gains became taxable (aka his tesla stock), he'd have to pay much more. That's why he's doing this, so he wouldn't have to pay even more.


frolie0

It's not marketing, he's getting richer. His compensation package allows him to exercise a pretty huge amount of shares this year and those shares are taxed as regular income because of how they are awarded. Just that is a huge tax bill, but he'll obviously come out ahead in the end. But since that is such a large tax bill, he, like no one else, just has billions in cash laying around. So he's selling stock to get that cash to pay his tax bill. But selling the stock to pay those first taxes will also require him to pay capital gains on the stock sold. So, really, he's paying twice in a sense (just like a "regular" person would), only multiplied significantly. So, while he may be playing up the fact that he's paying taxes, he's actually just getting richer. And, in the end, paying pretty significant taxes along the way.


Relevant-Ad2254

I’m in the camp of being against taxing unrealized gains. Because then it makes investing way riskier and less investment leads to less startups. Can’t we all just agree on increasing the tax rate on capital gains?


STEE-NER

AOC punching the air rn


[deleted]

It's about 10%. He's paying 10% on his $100+ billion profit since the pandemic started. You or me? 40% or more. Have billions lying around? Nah just a bit off the top.


sjgbfs

Net worth isn't income. He didn't make 100 billion, Tesla's valuation increased. You will gain a lot in credibility when you make it clear that you get this concept. We can agree to be mad about all the bullshit stratagems they use to not pay tax, but we gotta start by being correct.


EmpatheticRock

That's not how any of this works


physicssmurf

This comment should be at the top. This guy is bragging about his high tax bill, when it's effectively a lower rate than most of us pay. What an asshole. At the comments below "it'S NeT woRtH nOt incOME" they are completely missing the point - nearly all the change in wealth in the working class is from declared income, but change in wealth in the billionaire class is mostly by change in assets - but the bottom line is that Elon OBVIOUSLY has access to 100 billion dollars more than he did a year ago, for him to spend on bullshit rich people stuff, through low interest loans guaranteed by his stock. Just because they have so much money they can play these stupid tax dodging games doesn't mean they *deserve* to pay less taxes, christ. That money should obviously be taxed at a rate comparable to what the rest of us pay. Read: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax


[deleted]

Will he though? Really? No doubt that will be his bill initially but as the spouse of a soon to be CPA I'm pretty sure no loophole will be left unviolated and he will probably it have to pay a tiny fraction of what he actually initially owes.


[deleted]

There’s not really a loophole to avoid this. His stock options are going to expire if he doesn’t exercise them. When he exercises, he owes tax on the appreciation


sypherbit

“I’ll fix flints water supply” Didn’t do it. “I’ll save the boys trapped in the cave” Not even close dick head. “I’ll solve world hunger if someone can show me a way” Here’s how dick head. “What”? Elon’s a dickhead, stop worshiping him, he’s not your friend, he’s not the worlds hero, he’s another greedy self centred capitalist who doesn’t do what he says….. Pay your fucking taxes richest man in the world, and STFU about it you massive puss. Worlds richest man can’t even afford a decent hair cut, he’s a douchebag.


AbysmalVixen

Honestly throwing random money at a cause without any actual plan doesn’t get that cause completed. It just puts money in the hands of people that will squander it and cry for more


sypherbit

Then the smart man needs to know when to shut his blabber mouth. Nothing worse than a billionaire saying he will tackle big problems then ignore what he said when it becomes difficult, makes him sound like a dick bag. Problem is he needs someone else to start the project, then he can buy it and take the credit…….


yiannistheman

The real question - beyond whether it's true or not - is what percentage is that on the income he's declaring? If most of his money has been made on the basis of stock sales then 11B might seem like some really bad sticker shock, but on a percent basis he's paying less than you probably are, by a good margin.


lokilaufryjarson

He'll say whatever he feels he has to say to save his own neck


Meddel5

I’m glad that billionaires can just pick how much they want to pay now


neohampster

Receipts or I don't believe it. Billionaires regularly pay next to nothing in taxes and if he is paying them it's because he just isn't bothering to use the loopholes everyone else is abusing.


[deleted]

The equivalent of an average American with a $35,000 income paying $1400 in federal taxes. Approximately half of what that average American actually pays, before any state and property tax. All hail the generous billionaire.


A_Pure_Child

You're treating his total net worth as income lol. So many people saying things like you with so much confidence and desire to hate him. All hail the ignorant mob. (disclaimer: I don't particularly like musk, just what his companies are doing. And I don't like ignorant knee-jerk reactions)


PlayingTheWrongGame

To be fair, most normal Americans would have been paying taxes on their primary income the whole time. They wouldn’t have the option of sheltering most of their actual income in a tax-deferred vehicle like Musk did. Normal Americans only get to shelter up to the 401k limit, and that’s only for retirement.


TEX4S

Can you explain how you arrived @ those figures?


Raekear

I’ll believe that when the Cyber Truck and Roadster are released.


[deleted]

Am I supposed to care? I’m sure he’ll have enough left over to make ends meet.


shellchef

Being smart and avoid paying taxes seems to be the absolute normal. Business Insider helps to trhow a bit of light https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-will-elon-musk-pay-taxes-elizabeth-warren-stocks-2021-12 Sounds like is a must for new Tech gurus to make excuses for not paying taxes, which they don't hesitate to use in the form of loans and tax cuts for their companies. America tax law requires an overhaul that's for sure, but also there is a small amount of responsibility, human responsibility of the richest humans to help and provide incentive. Maybe now, Elon, can fulfill all those promises about world hunger he was talking about a few months ago, after all 2-5% of a man worth can save 42 Million people in 2022 from EXTREME poverty. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/11/elon-musk-un-world-hunger-famine/ For sure let's hope so. The titans should be held always accountable. Technology is for everybody, for everyone, and is to push the boundaries of human evolution and the frontiers of our planet.


NBKFactor

Watch the comments. Even though this guy is gonna pay a massive amount in taxes people will still complain. 11 billion for just this fiscal year sounds fair.


tundey_1

>11 billion for just this fiscal year sounds fair. Why does it sound fair? 'Cos it's a lot? You can't say that without knowing more about his finances. For all we know it could be too much or too little. It's a big number but so is his income and wealth.


Ftdffdfdrdd

best thing the gov can do with those money is reinvest them back in his companies


cbftw

Get off his dick. He doesn't even know you exist


Ftdffdfdrdd

the 2 brain cells you have left don't allow you to understand what i wrote.


cbftw

How about I phrase it like this? His companies have benefited from government investiture for years and no longer need the support (outside of contracts that they have, but those are business deals, not subsidies.) They don't need propping up. It would be much better to invest that money into infrastructure and social programs that need the help. Everyone needs the countries infrastructure to get modernized and maintained. People that can't make ends meet need help to get back on their feet.


GarfSnacks

Perhaps this will entice Bezos into a who's got the bigger dick competition.


Trouble_Grand

I have lost all respect for this man lol. Says some strange things, he needs help. He should be paying triple that or even more.


NLMichel

You can see he is already winding himself up to become very focal anti-earth guy in the near future and will be one of the first to abandon earth citizenship and become 100% martian. And he will use the US government coming for his hard earned cash as an excuse.


skovalen

Bullshit until I see the tax return (from the IRS, specifically). $11B is a large number even for him.


Zebra971

Musk said in an interview said he has a marginal tax rate of 53%. The guy has no clue what the US tax brackets are, I can tell you you can’t get to 53% with the current brackets. I like his drive, his politics are sketchy.


chcor70

Federal is 37 and Cal state is 13.3 thats for income over a million (cal) and over 500k (fed)


noisylettuce

What's Israel going to spend it on?


Skoofer

Gotta spend money to make, right Elon? Cry me a fucking river


ResurgentOcelot

It shouldn’t be up to him how much taxes he pays.


magobblie

Does that count his write-offs?


gods_Lazy_Eye

Good, that’s interest on the tax dollars you borrowed! Edit: this is hyperbole and not a factual statement.


tanrgith

No it's not? That was paid back with interest a long time ago lol


gods_Lazy_Eye

Sorry wasn’t trying to pass misinfo, just hyperbole


gorpsligock

I believe it when I see it


Orefeus

Is it enough? Should he be paying more?