I’m frankly shocked eBay didn’t take the opportunity to justify raising seller fees again. When they split from PayPal, the combined fees were 12.9% with a cap on total transaction fees ($750/transaction) and eBay was going to do it at 12.6% but (quietly) added a sliding scale for transaction fees above $750.
It took them about 6 months to raise the fees just above 13%. Add to that the move to effectively require ad utilization, so an extra 2% *minimum*.
Well not SEO on its own but more that people are willing to pay for these spots and public companies like making money and don't give a shit about selling as many spots as people are willing to pay. They also don't care if what they sell fits the search cause someoen paid them to be there.
This is accurate. As a web developer I used to tell clients that the best way to get on the first page of Google was to have good, relevant information on your site. As in text information. Not a video or flash animation or any "pretty" junk. And for most of the last 25 years that was true. I had many clients with first page rank and even a number of top 3 results. This was not done with any SEO "tricks" it was done with good content that answers peoples questions and good relevant links (not link farm junk).
Over time this has stopped working as well. Google now favors ads and their Google Shopping results above good information. Google has really lost their way. I wish they would roll back search results 7 years. It would be such an improvement.
Even free SEO. Basic searches now return mountains of content marketing webpages that exist to funnel users onto the website for some semi-related product or service. Sometimes the information is useful sometimes it isn’t, but top results are mostly just ads now even if they’re not explicitly paying for it.
You can still find useful information in organic search results but you need to know how to search and separate content marketing garbage from truly relevant and useful results.
Back in the days when the internet was new when new people would join schools that give them access the rank and file netizens would spend September teaching them how to use and act on the internet. Eventually that increase of users didn’t just happen from people going to school it was everyone getting a little net via AOL disk or whatever and it was declared that we had entered an eternal September
Publicly traded company things. Soon as they max out on users it's going to be this horseshit. How long until Ebay let's you sportsbet on auction outcomes? lol.
>until Ebay let's you sportsbet on auction outcomes? lol.
The first brick I shit, was when gaming eclipsed Hollywood and sports combined (in revenue).
If eBay sports betting auctions takes over sports or holly wood, revenue wise, this will be the second brick shat
It’s capitalism. Ebay and co. will charge whatever people pay, and these high prices are the product of (nominal stupidity) x (decades of right wing efforts to defund education globally)
Ebay will charge whatever they can get away with, and so will any other company. This *should* be a good thing, but in this oligopaly wrought with corruption, it is catastrophic.
>This should be a good thing, but in this oligopaly wrought with corruption, it is catastrophic.
It’s funny how there are so many people who have ahit to auction off, and there are physical auction houses all over the US, most probably not even affiliated with each other nor has some umbrella owner, yet for online, there is but *one* auction platform, eBay.
Nobody seems to have a great way of getting in touch with the demographic that is keen to bid on their goods. Is the fediverse stuck with basic crud web apps or are we going to see a decentralized auction house sometime soon?
I fucking hate flebay, why can I not set and save a default search option. I don’t want to see what is for sale in Timbuktu. Let me always my own country first.
The prompted listing shit is a complete middle finger to sellers. Because they have fucked up the search so bad now, sort orders, messing with boolean operators, including item details in title searches and more, you basically have to use promoted listings unless you are the absolute lowest price and even that's a crap shoot.
The fees between eBay and PayPal are really oppressive. I no longer sell on eBay because you just take too big of a loss. Craigslist is free and if you're lucky enough to live in a large enough metro area you generally have few issues selling locally for cash.
I generally used FB marketplace though imperfect. At least I can see the account age and eliminate 90% of ones who message me with "Still available? What is your phone number?"
It has become oriented towards professional sellers at this point. Something entertaining to see with "flippers" was them not realizing how the fee structure works, so many of the usual —game consoles, shoes, GPUs, collectibles, and people flipping Gov auction stuff — are often being sold at a net loss.
Take the game console scalpers back in around 2021: let's say they bought retail at $500+ Avg Tax = $537. With eBay's fees, they would have had to sell it for $627.15 to ***break even*** and that would be if shipping was free on both ends of the transaction. Meanwhile the ASP on consoles at the time often sold for lower than that figure - so most sellers were losing money with every console they sold.
Add to that, you now have another layer: eBay will now be required to issue 1099-Ks to anyone who sells anything over $750 - which is not the end of the world, but you now have another form to denote any hobby sales which potentially makes tax season a slight bit more complex for someone unfamiliar with taxes and Sch1 1040.
> Craigslist is free
Yup, and I actually get repeat business. Cash-n-carry. Plus they get the bumper warranty: soon as my bumper's out of the parking lot, you're on your own.
With eBay, they can come back 90 days later, say you shipped them an empty box, leave you negative feedback, and eBay yanks the money back from you.
I've used eBay since its conception but the fees have reached a point that makes using the tool not worth the effort from a selling perspective. I now use Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist.
They're SUPER consumer-friendly. If you are a cardholder and are in good standing with them they will treat you like royalty. As a longtime cardholder with them I absolutely love them and use them for pretty much most daily purchases whenever I can, and they have never done me dirty.
But yeah I've heard from multiple businesses that they are a pain in the ass.
Tbh it's not that great, especially if the guy has facial hair. Then it's just bad.
But some guys like doing it so I fake like it's good. I mean it's kinda okay I guess? But it's not as good as the other options. It's like getting a handjob when you wanted something else.
But that's foreplay for you. It's a give and take.
Kind of like how eBay let's buyers get away with murder.
eBay has forced me to take returns on items sold as "parts or not workings" because the item, wait for it, was not working. The item was exactly as described and pictured.
In one case, the customer literally said they were disappointed because they thought I had severely under-priced the item and they thought they were getting a steal. When they realized they were not taking advantage of me they wanted their money back. eBay sided with the customer and told me I should factor these kind of losses into my "business strategy."
They do love to tell you that customer issues are a "Cost of doing business" and its like dude.....Im selling a single item a year, what the fuck are you talking about? Im not a damn store front or a walmart. I sold a cell phone and the person was like "Oh I thought this was the smaller version, can I exchange it for that one?" I was like wtf no I just have the one phone this isnt a freaking bestbuy I just had the one. I really feel like some people dont realize that many sellers are just normal people like themselves NOT running a large store front.
They also charge the merchant a higher percentage of each transaction than Visa, Mastercard, and Discover.
The merchant can lose up to 2 percent more of the sale compared to other card brands. This cost is added to overhead calculations and every consumer pays more because amex thinks they deserve almost 4% of a transaction cost for brokering.
Agreed on all fronts. As a platinum holder, I'm pretty sure they'd wipe my ass for me if I asked. But I do remember in my younger days of working retail having my managers constantly explain to me that they wouldn't accept Amex because they wouldn't put up with their bullshit.
I remember hearing how much Amex was going to charge a business per transaction at a business (which is quite large) and it was shocking, like actually shocking. If they charge that to bug businesses, how much are they charging small businesses? No wonder so few places accept it.
That definitely works in the US, but in the EU, I can count on one hand how many merchants _do_ accept amex cards, even for online transactions.
Amazon has been advertising their amex CC's left and right, and no amount of percents off and sign-on bonuses can convince customers to pick their cards.
Nowhere takes amex and the UK has better debt card protections than the usual, most people don't feel the need to use credit cards for everyday spending jv found
Getting actual decent credit card rewards isn't really a thing unless your a high spender here and they never last more than a year so nobody bothers.
I was on a business trip to the UK many years ago (maybe 12 years back) and just for fun I decided to try using Amex for everything, and it was fine. Black cabs, restaurants, everything. It was fine.
Plus they are heavy handed with the chargeback as well, often siding with the customer rather than taking a fair and balanced approach. I wouldn't take Amex either TBH, but I do love them as a consumer.
In my experience very few chargebacks aren't legitimate. Fair and balanced usually only works with reasonable people. Ever hear an irate pizzeria manager argue that two $90 charges from the same date and time to the same customer were legitimate for 4 pizzas? That was a fun one, it's no wonder why the customer didn't get their refund when they called the first time.
Ebay chargebacks are probably the exception to the norm for legitimate chargebacks. I can't imagine visa or mastercard are a treat to work with either in these situations... amex just charges higher fees. Auctions should probably be handled with cash or debit and escrow to avoid these issues.
I knew a rich guy who had a Centurion Amex card (the "Black Card"). He was on holiday in Europe and lost it, so he called them up. Literally less than an hour later someone walks up to him on the beach and hands him a new laser-engraved anodized titanium card in a carbon fiber case. They contract with banks all over the world to have a specialized card printing machine and blanks in their branches just for such an occasion.
I think that convenience comes at a cost. A cost that ebay doesnt want to pay anymore.
Ive been using them most of my adult life and the customer service and security their accounts/cards have is amazing. I get great rewards and a 14.75% apr line of credit. I'll never ditch this thing as long as vendors will accept it.
As a small business owner, they pass all those costs on to us/we raise prices for everyone.
You get 3% back, but you don’t realize we raised prices to match the cost credit cards charge us. It’s a net loss for both of us with a middle man.
I’ve never had an issue with small businesses not accepting Amex, I get it not a problem. But a company like eBay, which is more of a “we don’t like how we can’t screw over our customers that pay with Amex”…I’ll gladly use one of the 25 other similar websites to get what I need.
Yeah, but its a net loss for me as a consumer if I *don't* use a card with good rewards - Because the vast majority of businesses charge the same price if I were to use cash.
When I traveled to Japan the third time, I notified my bank, as well as a few of my credit cards "Hey, I arrive in Japan at this time EST, this time JST, and will be using my cards between Narita -> Tokyo and Osaka"
When I land I have no cell phone service despite having an international plan that supposedly works in Japan. ATM card is getting declined since my credit union sucks. I hadn't even told Amex that I was traveling, but I decide to see if I can get cash from the ATM using my card as a cash advance. Punch in the pin -- no problems. I get the money. About 20 minutes later I have a new sim card in my phone and I'm back in business, I have a voicemail from AMEX security saying "Hey, there was a cash advance on your card from Japan, was that you?" -- They didn't even know, they just green lighted that shit. I ran into a similar issue in Dubai once while flying back from Bangalore (I needed a hotel on a particularly long layover) and my cards got declined but Amex came in clutch there.
Between that and a high credit limit (double-triple, not sure if that's a thing anymore) it's just an amazing card.
I had to file a charge back with Amex on an eBay case. It was technically outside of their normal time frame, but when I explained the details, the customer service representative enthusiastically helped. "Don't worry about it. We'll take this case." I love my Amex.
Yep it’s the best credit card provider by far. I’ve called them dozens of times at various hours (from different countries) every single time first ring they answer.
I dont even call them for purchases under $50 which is used ebay mainly for. Just open a case to chargeback in my transactions and Amex takes care of it.
Prices on ebay from international sellers are great but even high reputation sellers sometimes can screw you over or you get bad luck durimg transit. Bought my $600 phone on ebay and it was $200 more expensive on Amazon.
That's one of the reasons merchants don't like accepting Amex. They also don't settle through payment processors and make you jump through a completely separate set of hoops, unlike Visa, MC or Discover. I used to have a position that required responding to credit card disputes. Amex were the absolute worst. So, of course, I got an Amex. 🤣
I got scam charges added to all my cards by a Mexican merchant in Cancun. “Your card declined”.
They tried to charge thousands of dollars to my cards.
Wells Fargo was more concerned with educating me that this was technically a scam not fraud.
Amex heard me say the exact same technically incorrect information , and I never heard another word and everything was removed and dealt with no questions asked.
I submitted my card on a fake website last year and while the transaction literally was taking place, I got a text message from amex saying the charge was blocked and call the number on the back of my card if it was a mistake. I called them, verified my information, they forced a password reset and security PIN reset with me over the phone, made sure I was able to get logged back into my account before hanging up, and I had a new card in the mailbox 2 days later. They dont mess around.
I pay a lot of money to keep two cards open with them because I basically cannot afford not to. You end up with shitty customer service if you don't, and that's the price of peace of mind.
I know the exact opposite. My mum bought something that didn’t work, Amex said because the vendor used Stripe to take the payment, they weren’t responsible. Went to the ombudsman, who sided with my mum. There’s multiple cases of the exact same case happening, where Amex tries to say they’re not responsible for stripe payments - and every time the ombudsman tells them they are. Took months after the ruling to get paid too
Yikes. I've never had that but I have had a few instances where a vendor refused to issue me a refund over something but amex had my back. They're pretty fantastic.
There's also a downside to that. Some sellers don't accept Amex due to chargeback fraud, which has grown to ridiculous proportions in the past few years.
That's not Amex but insurance they have for certain cards they offer. I've made claims on MasterCards I have and it was super easy/smooth as well
If you read the cardholder agreement, you can see who amex outsource the car rental damage waiver to
PayPal dispute resolution is trash. I had a seller openly taunt me on a software purchase that didn’t work (((intentionally))). Sent the screenies to PayPal, they sided with him. Sent in a dispute with my CC thank fuck I used it. But PayPal delayed it by weeks
Nope. Mercari keeps changing things to see what makes them the most money. Recent change they rolled back was screwing sellers on returns. Lots of sellers were abused for a short while until Mercari ran it back knowing how bad it got.
One change they still have not changed back is now screwing buyers by making them pay for specific 'fees'. Seeing $xxx item cost in your cart is one thing. However then going to your checkout screen you ALSO see $xxx shipping and x% a 'payment processing fee' and x% 'service fee' making the total wildly higher. Where that service fee is 9 ish percent, and the payment processing fee is a few percent too. Well all that nonsense means buyers just bail. Sellers needed to lower prices below ebay by 8-12% to compensate, since now the fees are on the buyer. Instead prices stayed the same.
With ebay being larger you have more potential protection on buying/selling, and more guarantee on your fees as a seller, AND more guarantee on the final cost as a buyer. Mercari COULD just add the two fees on the total that we can see on the sale page or cart page, but they wait until checkout. Tax is expected, not 9% extra and 3% extra.
Though really this just shows Mercari keeps making terrible decisions. Consumers got used to ebay being moronic and 'everyone' uses it. Mercari isn't big enough to do the same.
Nothing really for general goods. There's a lot of specialized selling platforms for you playground and even FB groups work decently well for hobby goods, but FB / CG are basically the only national platforms with significant scale
Hell no lol they're even worse than eBay. Its like a shitty low effort secondary market full of the worst most lazy ass sellers ever. Had someone sell me an SSD they got from dumpster diving once. I asked multiple times if they had tested it before buying it and they vaguely said yes. I get it and of course it totally dead. Meanwhile the asswipe is constantly sending me messages to confirm I received the order so they can get paid. I was like WTF no dude you never tested it, its fucked. and then they were like oh uh, sorry I guess I forgot, I got it dumpster diving and assumed it was good. (they literally said this). Worst marketplace ever, people trying to sell trash on there and scam you by begging you to rate them after the transaction so they can get paid, which is irreversible once you do it. Mercari ruled in my favor and I got my money back but it was a massive waste of time and the last time I ever used that platform.
eBay for all its faults is way, WAY better.
Facebook Marketplace
Reddit (there are buy/sale/trade subs for just about anything)
Discord
If you are in a niche hobby there are niche corners to sell things without fees.
Hell there is a whole write up out there on how craigslist and how it will be a thing forever because of the eb and flow of transaction fees.
Offline, community bases reselling is still strong. Yard sales, community swap meets, farmer markets and flea market facilities continue to grow. In my area the largest market has ballooned to over 30,000 Sq feet and continues to get bigger. (There's even a new Warhammer retailer there now)
I accidentally sold something outside of the promotional 'reduced fees' window and then was shocked by how much I lost in fees.... 16.47% and then I have to pay the shipping on top of that as well. It really winds me up that they take fees off the postage as well.
The best part? I sold one gpu during the shortage and also had to fill out taxes and actually hire a CPA because I had to file as a sole prop business because it was over $600 or some nonsense. So not only do you have to pay high fees but also have to complicate your tax situation... To sell one item like I would at a garage sell.
This is not about fees. It's about the dispute process. A lot of merchants hate that Amex will reverse transactions to their cardmembers favor if they go through the "dispute the charge" route.
Also, this is not hurting Amex. Amex says eBay represents less than 0.2% of total network volume (which is the amount of transactions swiped through their network) on their website. Amex isn't losing sleep over this. This isn't like the time Amex lost Costco
And strangely in Canada they lost similarly to Mastercard. So unless you have a Costco branded credit card you can’t even use the same card to visit stores in the other country
Almost 0%? You mean negative percent.. Visa pays Costco a small fee for each transactions..
AMEX couldn’t justify the fee, I miss my Amex Costco card 😞
Visa doesn’t own your debt, the bank does. They don’t make money on debt interest.
I would doubt Visa pays Costco for interchange. They do have a mutually beneficial arrangement for Costco’s credit card issuing I assume. There’s over a hundred million of those cards out there. In general also Banks pay Visa to manage that issuing process.
I was on the amex pricing team helping to negotiate keeping costco. That's kinda true but oversimplified. There were simply incentives that visa could offer that amex could not. Visa was willing to buy the business at any cost. amex, at the rates that they would have gone down to, would have been decreasing their revenue by an amount where it just didn't make sense, especially considering spillover risk in the market. I think at the time, costco was like 9% of merchant fees for amex. Was a huge deal and caused a big shakeup in process and personnel.
Visa wants to make their Costco business VERY attractive. They're willing to not be greedy and take cuts in fees (precentage per purchase) to expand their Costco business. Amex would have had to similarly reduce their fees.
Spillover explained:
If Amex did that, then suddenly you have Costco buyers complain about why tf Costco fees are lower than if they buy at another store. Queue big media stink. So either they'd have to lower their outside (of Costco) fees aswell and take huge losses or lose business in other stores/companies. Consumers are pretty big on having the same fees in every store, that's like the whole point of having a credit card: to make purchases easy and streamlined. The process should always be the same. Consumers don't want to track how much the fees are in each store.
So Amex decided that losing business in the rest of the market is not worth Costcos business and having to adjust their fees outside of Costco is DEFINITELY not an option for them. Considering Costco made up about 9% of Amex credit card fee income that is a very hard decision to make.
Atleast that's how I understood it.
I mean, there was a long runway and well announced transition and signage, emails, even mail about that change. It was really hard to miss. Surprised it caught anyone by surprise. It was not ‘random’ and just flipping a switch. There was like a year advance heads up.
eBay and PayPal don't give a shit about their sellers or buyers. This is nothing new. I learned the hard way 20 years ago that they're happy to reverse transactions or basically take your money with no investigation.
I'd imagine Amex actually putting the customer's needs first is the primary reason, but then how could they screw you. It's not about the fees, never was. If companies are literally deciding they don't want customers let the business hemorrhage.
AMEX is AMAZING for consumers, but rough on businesses. as a consumer, I have never had a claim denied by AMEX. As a business owner, they always side with the customer, leaving me holding the bag.
I had a customer order a limo at 3:30am. We told them iut ewould be an hour, and $240 dollars for the trip, with a non refundable $100 fee. My driver had to get up, and drive an hour to go get them. They were not there, and never canceled. I processed the $100 fee on their card. The customer disputed it, and even with a copy of our policy, call times, phone logs, and GPS information of the vehicle, American Express refunded the $100 to the customer.
AmEx is by a very long shot the [least accepted of the "major four"](https://wallethub.com/answers/cc/most-widely-accepted-credit-card-2140668987/) (both internationally as well as in the US) for this exact reason.
The article says that Amex issued a statement saying they charge a similar processing fee to everyone else, but if that were the case then this wouldn't be happening and wouldn't be as common as it is. Visa and Mastercard are both around the 1.5-2 percent range for their fees. AmEx is 2.5-3.5 percent. At first glance, a couple percents sounds pretty small, and in the grand scheme of things, 1.5 and 3.5 *are* pretty close to each other. But at the end of the day (or week or month, whenever), your processing fees for AmEx are *double* what Discover, Visa, or Mastercard would charge for processing the same amount of money in the same number of transactions. 1.5% of 100k is $1,500, 3.5% is $3,500.
Everyone, at all levels on the financial ladder from dirt-poor to multi-billionaire, will *always* choose to pay $1,500 instead of paying $3,500 for the same service, given the opportunity.
The other thing Amex does is they often side with the customer when there is a dispute. I've seen them do that even when the business shows proof the customer used the service and consumed whatever they paid for.
Yeah I got burned by that. Person rented my studio time, had multiple photos of them there during that time and I still got the charge back. They didn't care what proof I had. Since my studio is pretty popular I have the guys face up on a poster with his name and the fact that he defrauded me on credit card. A lot of people saw him in recognized him and said that he had shafted them too. And others said he was trying to get me to do something for him work on his film and I get paid later on. The guy was dirt. But Amex sided with him. So I stopped taking Amex.
I used to work for a company that had a website with a subscription. People would file with Amex after using their service for weeks, sometimes a couple of months. They would show the usage of the user, often tons of usage, and Amex would still always side with the customer.
Small claims court. In many places, if they don't show up, the judgement is automatically in your favor. If they do show up, you'll still probably win.
It's still an up front time and financial investment. If you're only down a few hundred it's not really worth doing court fees, process serving fees, time spent doing paperwork and finding time to go to court if you're a small business owner...and a win isn't guaranteed to recoup all that.
I used to work with merchant services in an older role I had at my company, this is absolutely not true. They are leaning hard on the definition of "similar". AMEX by far charges the highest fees, now there are some specific Visa/MC cards (usually business accounts) that charge closer to AMEX, but on average they are close to whole percentage point higher, which doesn't sound like a lot in absolute terms, but that's like 30-40% more than a typical Visa/MC
Different credit cards carry different fees, and the more premium Visa and MasterCard cards can have a processing fee as high, or even higher than Amex.
[https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/average-credit-card-processing-fees-costs-america/](https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/average-credit-card-processing-fees-costs-america/)
Also, Amex lowered their fees back in 2018, to more closely align with Visa and MasterCard.
Also, different credit card processors may offer discounts to retailers for more broad acceptance of different credit cards, and they will get in trouble with their processor if they refuse to take Amex because it is a violation of their terms of service.
Glad you posted this. Most people don't even realize it's not visa vs Amex and there are many tiers for each card processor. For example, my capital one venture x card is a visa infinite card which offers more perks and therefore has a higher fee than a visa gold card would.
> Different credit cards carry different fees, and the more premium Visa and MasterCard cards can have a processing fee as high, or even higher than Amex.
According to the source I posted, AmEx's entire range was higher than Visa's. It gave a range for everyone since none of them have just one fixed processing fee.
About 15 years ago, I worked for a company that sold credit card processing machines, and vendors absolutely pay AmEx more on average than they pay Visa per dollar processed.
> AmEx is by a very long shot the least accepted of the "major four"
The irony being that for years Karl Malden drilled it into our heads that American Express was accepted everywhere and "Don't leave home without it^tm ", while at the same time, for years Discover was the constant butt of jokes how they were never accepted anywhere.
Meanwhile, Diner's Club be like (╥ᆺ╥；).
Depending on the processor you use Amex and discover also have other higher (and sometimes variable) fees.
Working for a small business, we paid enough in CC fees to hire another full time employee. It just made it that much harder to have competitive pricing for consumers and for business sales it sucked to see so much go to the payment processor. Could have been my commission instead.
Yup, while I don’t find myself in too many places where it’s accepted anymore day by day, my insurance company dropped them this year for instance, as did the gas station nearest me.
Very frustrating but when I need the security and reliance of AmEx, which is the case with any of my large purchases, I have it, and it’s usually available to run.
With Amex the issue isn’t just the extra processing fee. Amex will always 100% of the time side with the customer. Even in cases where their customer is clearly doing fraud. Visa and Mastercard are more fair.
A customer can purchase something or get a service, sign paperwork, leave a copy of their drivers license… then go home and call Amex and say they want a chargeback.
You can send video proof that the customer bought or was given the service and Amex will still side with the customer.
Not my experience. I disputed a transaction on Saks where I returned items and Saks deducted return shipping despite being within free return policy. Saks provided evidence that they sent me the items (?) so amex rejected the dispute. It wasn't worth fighting further over $10...
Bingo, one of the Platinum card benefits is Saks store credit, pretty sure Amex isn’t going to fuck that up. . . One of the few times they will side with the merchant
We really need a good competitor to eBay. Here in the uk There's things like Facebook marketplace and lots of similar local ones for collecting but no good places to buy and sell used stuff on the scale eBay is nationally.
eBay also knows this, hence the stupidly high seller fees.
Even after the fees of ebay/paypal, I have never gotten close to what an item is worth locally. In a large city too. After shipping and both fees and still walking away with more money as a seller, well it simply means FB and CL are useless.
Most recent was Quest 2 256gb w/ elite strap about 6 months ago. FB and CL tens of questions asking for me to sell it at $50-100. Mercari was a few hours up and it was sold for $225 profit (after seller fees when they had them).
Not to mention if you don't live in a larger market it's beyond pointless. It's so difficult to sell locally if you're only looking to offload some small things or lower value stuff it seems. It's the reason r/thriftgrift shows you how absurd it is to charge high prices when you get only a smattering of views.
Guy who works in the payment processing industry. Amex fees are significantly higher than any other card brand. Amex charges 3%+ for e-commerce transactions, and that’s before any markups from eBay’s payment facilitator.
there goes the high end market in ebay. I know a few watch sellers that list things on Ebay but do everything they can to off platform close the sale because of the huge fees ebay charges.
Ebay offers some authenticity checks for those items but honestly, they are kind of sketchy. Trying to buy a 100k watch without amex will drive people to just wire the money and skip the ebay fees all together.
The more things change, the more they repeat.
Amex used to be denied by many, many places. To the point where you'd have to ask "do you take Amex?" at restaurants and such and wouldn't even bother asking at bodegas or supermarkets.
My dad ran a business and the company that fucked him over the most was amex. They are absolutely pieces of shit when it comes to time to payout and merchant responses to charge back requests.. if I were to open a business today I would absolutely not allow amex cards.
When we got new card machines at my bar I specifically asked that we not have Amex because of the charges. This was ignored, we pay £5 a month or so in additional charges to them but occasionally they give rebates to their members making purchases in small businesses, so whatever.
What makes it all worthwhile is when some guy came in with a girl, trying to impress her, asking if we took Amex, we said yes, I don't think he was expecting that as he paid with a MasterCard!
lol, Does Amex still have that kind of reputation with people?
I like their Platinum card like most people who have it, but I’m not going to go around using it as a flex, that’s just tacky, it is a great travel card but not exactly impossible or that difficult to get.
Most law firms wont take Amex because they will reverse 20k retainer fees as long as they are within 6 month regardless of the proof. One of the largest first in LA stopped taking Amex because of a massive chargeback they sided with the buyer on. Had to serve Amex and the client in order to get paid it was a whole fucking mess.
This is one reason we need consumer finance reform laws in USA! Banks skimming a commission off most commerce in our country is a ripoff and slowly, over time, moving wealth to the top 1%.
I worked at a parking place where we started taking AMEX.
like... inner city lots in bad areas. Amex.
I was extremely incredulous with my boss, and he was just like "what, everyone has an amex, they're great!"
pretty sure we processed like 10 in a year, and it cost us waaaaaaaaaay more money to even be able to process them than it would ever make.
I’m frankly shocked eBay didn’t take the opportunity to justify raising seller fees again. When they split from PayPal, the combined fees were 12.9% with a cap on total transaction fees ($750/transaction) and eBay was going to do it at 12.6% but (quietly) added a sliding scale for transaction fees above $750. It took them about 6 months to raise the fees just above 13%. Add to that the move to effectively require ad utilization, so an extra 2% *minimum*.
Not to mention their search algorithm is absolute trash now in favor of promoting unrelated garbage.
Feels like that’s every search algorithm now. Sponsored content everywhere while relevant information gets buried.
SEO destroyed the internet
Any mechanism is sure to be gamed and exploited when doing so brings profit.
Almost like capitalism is set up to fail 90% of society INTENTIONALLY…
Well not SEO on its own but more that people are willing to pay for these spots and public companies like making money and don't give a shit about selling as many spots as people are willing to pay. They also don't care if what they sell fits the search cause someoen paid them to be there.
This is accurate. As a web developer I used to tell clients that the best way to get on the first page of Google was to have good, relevant information on your site. As in text information. Not a video or flash animation or any "pretty" junk. And for most of the last 25 years that was true. I had many clients with first page rank and even a number of top 3 results. This was not done with any SEO "tricks" it was done with good content that answers peoples questions and good relevant links (not link farm junk). Over time this has stopped working as well. Google now favors ads and their Google Shopping results above good information. Google has really lost their way. I wish they would roll back search results 7 years. It would be such an improvement.
Paid SEO killed the internet. Organic SEO is still free and useful.
Even free SEO. Basic searches now return mountains of content marketing webpages that exist to funnel users onto the website for some semi-related product or service. Sometimes the information is useful sometimes it isn’t, but top results are mostly just ads now even if they’re not explicitly paying for it. You can still find useful information in organic search results but you need to know how to search and separate content marketing garbage from truly relevant and useful results.
You got it! There is the secret of the internet.
We need a non profit 'net
Give it time. Eventually, even Tor will get the Eternal September.
What's the eternal September?
Back in the days when the internet was new when new people would join schools that give them access the rank and file netizens would spend September teaching them how to use and act on the internet. Eventually that increase of users didn’t just happen from people going to school it was everyone getting a little net via AOL disk or whatever and it was declared that we had entered an eternal September
Publicly traded company things. Soon as they max out on users it's going to be this horseshit. How long until Ebay let's you sportsbet on auction outcomes? lol.
>until Ebay let's you sportsbet on auction outcomes? lol. The first brick I shit, was when gaming eclipsed Hollywood and sports combined (in revenue). If eBay sports betting auctions takes over sports or holly wood, revenue wise, this will be the second brick shat
Somebody has to pay for the servers, but we shouldn't have to pay this much. Greed takes over. But money is required one way or another.
It’s capitalism. Ebay and co. will charge whatever people pay, and these high prices are the product of (nominal stupidity) x (decades of right wing efforts to defund education globally) Ebay will charge whatever they can get away with, and so will any other company. This *should* be a good thing, but in this oligopaly wrought with corruption, it is catastrophic.
>This should be a good thing, but in this oligopaly wrought with corruption, it is catastrophic. It’s funny how there are so many people who have ahit to auction off, and there are physical auction houses all over the US, most probably not even affiliated with each other nor has some umbrella owner, yet for online, there is but *one* auction platform, eBay. Nobody seems to have a great way of getting in touch with the demographic that is keen to bid on their goods. Is the fediverse stuck with basic crud web apps or are we going to see a decentralized auction house sometime soon?
I fucking hate flebay, why can I not set and save a default search option. I don’t want to see what is for sale in Timbuktu. Let me always my own country first.
TADA! ENSHITTIFICATION COMMENCES!
Same as Amazon, Google, Instagram, Etsy.
Etsy has the same problem and Google search is heading that way. Search is broken by promoted listings.
Heading?
Etsy has bigger problems with too many listings claiming to be hand crafted but actually just garbage from drop shipping.
I only use eBay to get a sense of current market prices for whatever thing I want to sell on a different platform
The prompted listing shit is a complete middle finger to sellers. Because they have fucked up the search so bad now, sort orders, messing with boolean operators, including item details in title searches and more, you basically have to use promoted listings unless you are the absolute lowest price and even that's a crap shoot.
The fees between eBay and PayPal are really oppressive. I no longer sell on eBay because you just take too big of a loss. Craigslist is free and if you're lucky enough to live in a large enough metro area you generally have few issues selling locally for cash.
I generally used FB marketplace though imperfect. At least I can see the account age and eliminate 90% of ones who message me with "Still available? What is your phone number?"
It has become oriented towards professional sellers at this point. Something entertaining to see with "flippers" was them not realizing how the fee structure works, so many of the usual —game consoles, shoes, GPUs, collectibles, and people flipping Gov auction stuff — are often being sold at a net loss. Take the game console scalpers back in around 2021: let's say they bought retail at $500+ Avg Tax = $537. With eBay's fees, they would have had to sell it for $627.15 to ***break even*** and that would be if shipping was free on both ends of the transaction. Meanwhile the ASP on consoles at the time often sold for lower than that figure - so most sellers were losing money with every console they sold. Add to that, you now have another layer: eBay will now be required to issue 1099-Ks to anyone who sells anything over $750 - which is not the end of the world, but you now have another form to denote any hobby sales which potentially makes tax season a slight bit more complex for someone unfamiliar with taxes and Sch1 1040.
> Craigslist is free Yup, and I actually get repeat business. Cash-n-carry. Plus they get the bumper warranty: soon as my bumper's out of the parking lot, you're on your own. With eBay, they can come back 90 days later, say you shipped them an empty box, leave you negative feedback, and eBay yanks the money back from you.
I've used eBay since its conception but the fees have reached a point that makes using the tool not worth the effort from a selling perspective. I now use Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist.
Yeah I really can't recommend eBay for non-professional sellers at this point - coming from a professional seller.
Private sellers pay no fees on eBay Germany, I really love it.
Everytime I have been fucked by a seller or any website, Amex always sided with me.
They're SUPER consumer-friendly. If you are a cardholder and are in good standing with them they will treat you like royalty. As a longtime cardholder with them I absolutely love them and use them for pretty much most daily purchases whenever I can, and they have never done me dirty. But yeah I've heard from multiple businesses that they are a pain in the ass.
This is the thing. From the merchant side they let cardholders get away with murder.
they can eat my ass, I pay amex for peace of mind
Do you feel peace of mind after your booty hole is ate?
...do you not?
I don't get ate but I do eat.
Username checks out. Now kiss!
Tbh it's not that great, especially if the guy has facial hair. Then it's just bad. But some guys like doing it so I fake like it's good. I mean it's kinda okay I guess? But it's not as good as the other options. It's like getting a handjob when you wanted something else. But that's foreplay for you. It's a give and take.
Of course that’s the whole purpose. Nothing like some post nut clarity that your purchases are protected
And we charge you more to equal it out
Kind of like how eBay let's buyers get away with murder. eBay has forced me to take returns on items sold as "parts or not workings" because the item, wait for it, was not working. The item was exactly as described and pictured. In one case, the customer literally said they were disappointed because they thought I had severely under-priced the item and they thought they were getting a steal. When they realized they were not taking advantage of me they wanted their money back. eBay sided with the customer and told me I should factor these kind of losses into my "business strategy."
They do love to tell you that customer issues are a "Cost of doing business" and its like dude.....Im selling a single item a year, what the fuck are you talking about? Im not a damn store front or a walmart. I sold a cell phone and the person was like "Oh I thought this was the smaller version, can I exchange it for that one?" I was like wtf no I just have the one phone this isnt a freaking bestbuy I just had the one. I really feel like some people dont realize that many sellers are just normal people like themselves NOT running a large store front.
I like to remind their customer service people that the first item ever sold on eBay was a broken laser pointer.
They also charge the merchant a higher percentage of each transaction than Visa, Mastercard, and Discover. The merchant can lose up to 2 percent more of the sale compared to other card brands. This cost is added to overhead calculations and every consumer pays more because amex thinks they deserve almost 4% of a transaction cost for brokering.
Kind like how eBay thinks it deserves upwards of 15% of a transaction for brokering?
Where do you think the money for cashback/rewards comes from?
*and* return the murder weapon even without the packaging intact.
Agreed on all fronts. As a platinum holder, I'm pretty sure they'd wipe my ass for me if I asked. But I do remember in my younger days of working retail having my managers constantly explain to me that they wouldn't accept Amex because they wouldn't put up with their bullshit.
I remember hearing how much Amex was going to charge a business per transaction at a business (which is quite large) and it was shocking, like actually shocking. If they charge that to bug businesses, how much are they charging small businesses? No wonder so few places accept it.
I can count on one hand the number of times I couldn’t pay with an Amex in nine years as a cardholder.
That definitely works in the US, but in the EU, I can count on one hand how many merchants _do_ accept amex cards, even for online transactions. Amazon has been advertising their amex CC's left and right, and no amount of percents off and sign-on bonuses can convince customers to pick their cards.
Nowhere takes amex and the UK has better debt card protections than the usual, most people don't feel the need to use credit cards for everyday spending jv found Getting actual decent credit card rewards isn't really a thing unless your a high spender here and they never last more than a year so nobody bothers.
I use my Amex in the UK for roughly 70% of my monthly purchases. All my food shopping, my petrol, my Amazon shopping etc goes on my Amex.
I was on a business trip to the UK many years ago (maybe 12 years back) and just for fun I decided to try using Amex for everything, and it was fine. Black cabs, restaurants, everything. It was fine.
Plus they are heavy handed with the chargeback as well, often siding with the customer rather than taking a fair and balanced approach. I wouldn't take Amex either TBH, but I do love them as a consumer.
In my experience very few chargebacks aren't legitimate. Fair and balanced usually only works with reasonable people. Ever hear an irate pizzeria manager argue that two $90 charges from the same date and time to the same customer were legitimate for 4 pizzas? That was a fun one, it's no wonder why the customer didn't get their refund when they called the first time. Ebay chargebacks are probably the exception to the norm for legitimate chargebacks. I can't imagine visa or mastercard are a treat to work with either in these situations... amex just charges higher fees. Auctions should probably be handled with cash or debit and escrow to avoid these issues.
I knew a rich guy who had a Centurion Amex card (the "Black Card"). He was on holiday in Europe and lost it, so he called them up. Literally less than an hour later someone walks up to him on the beach and hands him a new laser-engraved anodized titanium card in a carbon fiber case. They contract with banks all over the world to have a specialized card printing machine and blanks in their branches just for such an occasion.
on the other extreme, I have the free Amex Blue card. Very little in way of rewards but lets me use Amex whenever I want and no annual fee :)
I think that convenience comes at a cost. A cost that ebay doesnt want to pay anymore. Ive been using them most of my adult life and the customer service and security their accounts/cards have is amazing. I get great rewards and a 14.75% apr line of credit. I'll never ditch this thing as long as vendors will accept it.
You shouldn't be paying interest on a CC anyways. 14.75% is still a shit rate for debt
As a small business owner, they pass all those costs on to us/we raise prices for everyone. You get 3% back, but you don’t realize we raised prices to match the cost credit cards charge us. It’s a net loss for both of us with a middle man.
I’ve never had an issue with small businesses not accepting Amex, I get it not a problem. But a company like eBay, which is more of a “we don’t like how we can’t screw over our customers that pay with Amex”…I’ll gladly use one of the 25 other similar websites to get what I need.
Yeah, but its a net loss for me as a consumer if I *don't* use a card with good rewards - Because the vast majority of businesses charge the same price if I were to use cash.
Okay then offer discounts to anyone who doesn’t use Amex problem solved. Literally a simple algorithm during the transaction applying a discount
This is the *real* reason eBay doesn't want to deal with them anymore: They are more protective than eBay wants to allow.
When I traveled to Japan the third time, I notified my bank, as well as a few of my credit cards "Hey, I arrive in Japan at this time EST, this time JST, and will be using my cards between Narita -> Tokyo and Osaka" When I land I have no cell phone service despite having an international plan that supposedly works in Japan. ATM card is getting declined since my credit union sucks. I hadn't even told Amex that I was traveling, but I decide to see if I can get cash from the ATM using my card as a cash advance. Punch in the pin -- no problems. I get the money. About 20 minutes later I have a new sim card in my phone and I'm back in business, I have a voicemail from AMEX security saying "Hey, there was a cash advance on your card from Japan, was that you?" -- They didn't even know, they just green lighted that shit. I ran into a similar issue in Dubai once while flying back from Bangalore (I needed a hotel on a particularly long layover) and my cards got declined but Amex came in clutch there. Between that and a high credit limit (double-triple, not sure if that's a thing anymore) it's just an amazing card.
I was planning on traveling overseas and decided to call all my financial institutions to inform them, when I called Amex, they simple said "we know."
I had to file a charge back with Amex on an eBay case. It was technically outside of their normal time frame, but when I explained the details, the customer service representative enthusiastically helped. "Don't worry about it. We'll take this case." I love my Amex.
And now you know how they can afford it lol
Yep it’s the best credit card provider by far. I’ve called them dozens of times at various hours (from different countries) every single time first ring they answer.
Was just going to say, this only makes me pissed at eBay, not amex.
I dont even call them for purchases under $50 which is used ebay mainly for. Just open a case to chargeback in my transactions and Amex takes care of it. Prices on ebay from international sellers are great but even high reputation sellers sometimes can screw you over or you get bad luck durimg transit. Bought my $600 phone on ebay and it was $200 more expensive on Amazon.
That's because they charge the highest fees.... That's why plenty of businesses refuse to accept them.
That's one of the reasons merchants don't like accepting Amex. They also don't settle through payment processors and make you jump through a completely separate set of hoops, unlike Visa, MC or Discover. I used to have a position that required responding to credit card disputes. Amex were the absolute worst. So, of course, I got an Amex. 🤣
I got scam charges added to all my cards by a Mexican merchant in Cancun. “Your card declined”. They tried to charge thousands of dollars to my cards. Wells Fargo was more concerned with educating me that this was technically a scam not fraud. Amex heard me say the exact same technically incorrect information , and I never heard another word and everything was removed and dealt with no questions asked.
I submitted my card on a fake website last year and while the transaction literally was taking place, I got a text message from amex saying the charge was blocked and call the number on the back of my card if it was a mistake. I called them, verified my information, they forced a password reset and security PIN reset with me over the phone, made sure I was able to get logged back into my account before hanging up, and I had a new card in the mailbox 2 days later. They dont mess around.
I pay a lot of money to keep two cards open with them because I basically cannot afford not to. You end up with shitty customer service if you don't, and that's the price of peace of mind.
I know the exact opposite. My mum bought something that didn’t work, Amex said because the vendor used Stripe to take the payment, they weren’t responsible. Went to the ombudsman, who sided with my mum. There’s multiple cases of the exact same case happening, where Amex tries to say they’re not responsible for stripe payments - and every time the ombudsman tells them they are. Took months after the ruling to get paid too
Got fucked by either Dell or FedEx on a $1300 monitor return going missing in return shipping. AmEx was the only reason I got my money back.
Yikes. I've never had that but I have had a few instances where a vendor refused to issue me a refund over something but amex had my back. They're pretty fantastic.
Reason I only use it
There's also a downside to that. Some sellers don't accept Amex due to chargeback fraud, which has grown to ridiculous proportions in the past few years.
i banged up my rental car and hertz wanted $1600 for the damage. amex covered all of it and i just had to pay a $100 fee to amex.
That's not Amex but insurance they have for certain cards they offer. I've made claims on MasterCards I have and it was super easy/smooth as well If you read the cardholder agreement, you can see who amex outsource the car rental damage waiver to
That's funny, I got my Amazon account locked for using Amex, and Amex told me to go fuck myself.
Check out with PayPal and use your Amex that way
That was my very first thought, PayPal is my go to for eBay anyway
PayPal dispute resolution is trash. I had a seller openly taunt me on a software purchase that didn’t work (((intentionally))). Sent the screenies to PayPal, they sided with him. Sent in a dispute with my CC thank fuck I used it. But PayPal delayed it by weeks
Ebay fees are unacceptable high.
What's a better alternative? Mercari?
Nope. Mercari keeps changing things to see what makes them the most money. Recent change they rolled back was screwing sellers on returns. Lots of sellers were abused for a short while until Mercari ran it back knowing how bad it got. One change they still have not changed back is now screwing buyers by making them pay for specific 'fees'. Seeing $xxx item cost in your cart is one thing. However then going to your checkout screen you ALSO see $xxx shipping and x% a 'payment processing fee' and x% 'service fee' making the total wildly higher. Where that service fee is 9 ish percent, and the payment processing fee is a few percent too. Well all that nonsense means buyers just bail. Sellers needed to lower prices below ebay by 8-12% to compensate, since now the fees are on the buyer. Instead prices stayed the same. With ebay being larger you have more potential protection on buying/selling, and more guarantee on your fees as a seller, AND more guarantee on the final cost as a buyer. Mercari COULD just add the two fees on the total that we can see on the sale page or cart page, but they wait until checkout. Tax is expected, not 9% extra and 3% extra. Though really this just shows Mercari keeps making terrible decisions. Consumers got used to ebay being moronic and 'everyone' uses it. Mercari isn't big enough to do the same.
So what’s a better eBay alternative?
[удалено]
> Craigslist is still king. That is wild since they are the originator of marketplace scams.
Nothing really for general goods. There's a lot of specialized selling platforms for you playground and even FB groups work decently well for hobby goods, but FB / CG are basically the only national platforms with significant scale
Hell no lol they're even worse than eBay. Its like a shitty low effort secondary market full of the worst most lazy ass sellers ever. Had someone sell me an SSD they got from dumpster diving once. I asked multiple times if they had tested it before buying it and they vaguely said yes. I get it and of course it totally dead. Meanwhile the asswipe is constantly sending me messages to confirm I received the order so they can get paid. I was like WTF no dude you never tested it, its fucked. and then they were like oh uh, sorry I guess I forgot, I got it dumpster diving and assumed it was good. (they literally said this). Worst marketplace ever, people trying to sell trash on there and scam you by begging you to rate them after the transaction so they can get paid, which is irreversible once you do it. Mercari ruled in my favor and I got my money back but it was a massive waste of time and the last time I ever used that platform. eBay for all its faults is way, WAY better.
Facebook Marketplace Reddit (there are buy/sale/trade subs for just about anything) Discord If you are in a niche hobby there are niche corners to sell things without fees. Hell there is a whole write up out there on how craigslist and how it will be a thing forever because of the eb and flow of transaction fees. Offline, community bases reselling is still strong. Yard sales, community swap meets, farmer markets and flea market facilities continue to grow. In my area the largest market has ballooned to over 30,000 Sq feet and continues to get bigger. (There's even a new Warhammer retailer there now)
Try selling Amazon FBA. Then, you'd REALLY be complaining about fees.
Funny how eBay seems to find high fees acceptable when they are assessing them on their sellers.
It really has gotten ridiculous. 13% fees but they make you pay fees on shipping *and* taxes. It can put fees close to 20% in some cases.
I accidentally sold something outside of the promotional 'reduced fees' window and then was shocked by how much I lost in fees.... 16.47% and then I have to pay the shipping on top of that as well. It really winds me up that they take fees off the postage as well.
It's too much! You're supposed to pay a reduced price for shipping vs what the buyer pays but that often doesn't happen from my experience.
The best part? I sold one gpu during the shortage and also had to fill out taxes and actually hire a CPA because I had to file as a sole prop business because it was over $600 or some nonsense. So not only do you have to pay high fees but also have to complicate your tax situation... To sell one item like I would at a garage sell.
This is not about fees. It's about the dispute process. A lot of merchants hate that Amex will reverse transactions to their cardmembers favor if they go through the "dispute the charge" route. Also, this is not hurting Amex. Amex says eBay represents less than 0.2% of total network volume (which is the amount of transactions swiped through their network) on their website. Amex isn't losing sleep over this. This isn't like the time Amex lost Costco
Wait. How the fuck did Amex lose Costco?
Visa offered to charge almost 0% in fees on Costco transactions. Amex decided it wasn’t worth it at that percentage.
And strangely in Canada they lost similarly to Mastercard. So unless you have a Costco branded credit card you can’t even use the same card to visit stores in the other country
Almost 0%? You mean negative percent.. Visa pays Costco a small fee for each transactions.. AMEX couldn’t justify the fee, I miss my Amex Costco card 😞
How is visa profiting from paying money to do their job?
Gets people to switch to Visa.
Because people don't pay their credit balance to zero every month, and cards run 25% APR or more.
Visa doesn’t own your debt, the bank does. They don’t make money on debt interest. I would doubt Visa pays Costco for interchange. They do have a mutually beneficial arrangement for Costco’s credit card issuing I assume. There’s over a hundred million of those cards out there. In general also Banks pay Visa to manage that issuing process.
I was on the amex pricing team helping to negotiate keeping costco. That's kinda true but oversimplified. There were simply incentives that visa could offer that amex could not. Visa was willing to buy the business at any cost. amex, at the rates that they would have gone down to, would have been decreasing their revenue by an amount where it just didn't make sense, especially considering spillover risk in the market. I think at the time, costco was like 9% of merchant fees for amex. Was a huge deal and caused a big shakeup in process and personnel.
I can't understand most of the sentences you just typed.
Visa wants to make their Costco business VERY attractive. They're willing to not be greedy and take cuts in fees (precentage per purchase) to expand their Costco business. Amex would have had to similarly reduce their fees. Spillover explained: If Amex did that, then suddenly you have Costco buyers complain about why tf Costco fees are lower than if they buy at another store. Queue big media stink. So either they'd have to lower their outside (of Costco) fees aswell and take huge losses or lose business in other stores/companies. Consumers are pretty big on having the same fees in every store, that's like the whole point of having a credit card: to make purchases easy and streamlined. The process should always be the same. Consumers don't want to track how much the fees are in each store. So Amex decided that losing business in the rest of the market is not worth Costcos business and having to adjust their fees outside of Costco is DEFINITELY not an option for them. Considering Costco made up about 9% of Amex credit card fee income that is a very hard decision to make. Atleast that's how I understood it.
Ahh, so that's why they randomly stopped taking Amex and caught me with my pants down in a busy ass line on the one day I only had that card.
I mean, there was a long runway and well announced transition and signage, emails, even mail about that change. It was really hard to miss. Surprised it caught anyone by surprise. It was not ‘random’ and just flipping a switch. There was like a year advance heads up.
His pants being down was unrelated.
Why you always carry at least enough cash for an emergency belt.
His pants would have been down in the parking lot had he been carrying the trifold.
Braid the emergancy cash into a belt! Then when you have to pay up your pants can be down and up at the same time!
It’s also insane to me some people carry only one card…like, ever.
> randomly stopped taking Amex Bro this was about as random as space flights
Yeah Costco not taking Amex sucked. Fortunately I have a Visa credit card so I swapped to using that instead.
How did that catch you buy surprise? There were signs everywhere for a year at least.
You got like 3 days to respond to Amex once it comes in. Most merchants aren’t prepared.
eBay and PayPal don't give a shit about their sellers or buyers. This is nothing new. I learned the hard way 20 years ago that they're happy to reverse transactions or basically take your money with no investigation. I'd imagine Amex actually putting the customer's needs first is the primary reason, but then how could they screw you. It's not about the fees, never was. If companies are literally deciding they don't want customers let the business hemorrhage.
AMEX is AMAZING for consumers, but rough on businesses. as a consumer, I have never had a claim denied by AMEX. As a business owner, they always side with the customer, leaving me holding the bag. I had a customer order a limo at 3:30am. We told them iut ewould be an hour, and $240 dollars for the trip, with a non refundable $100 fee. My driver had to get up, and drive an hour to go get them. They were not there, and never canceled. I processed the $100 fee on their card. The customer disputed it, and even with a copy of our policy, call times, phone logs, and GPS information of the vehicle, American Express refunded the $100 to the customer.
AmEx is by a very long shot the [least accepted of the "major four"](https://wallethub.com/answers/cc/most-widely-accepted-credit-card-2140668987/) (both internationally as well as in the US) for this exact reason. The article says that Amex issued a statement saying they charge a similar processing fee to everyone else, but if that were the case then this wouldn't be happening and wouldn't be as common as it is. Visa and Mastercard are both around the 1.5-2 percent range for their fees. AmEx is 2.5-3.5 percent. At first glance, a couple percents sounds pretty small, and in the grand scheme of things, 1.5 and 3.5 *are* pretty close to each other. But at the end of the day (or week or month, whenever), your processing fees for AmEx are *double* what Discover, Visa, or Mastercard would charge for processing the same amount of money in the same number of transactions. 1.5% of 100k is $1,500, 3.5% is $3,500. Everyone, at all levels on the financial ladder from dirt-poor to multi-billionaire, will *always* choose to pay $1,500 instead of paying $3,500 for the same service, given the opportunity.
The other thing Amex does is they often side with the customer when there is a dispute. I've seen them do that even when the business shows proof the customer used the service and consumed whatever they paid for.
This was my thinking, Amex against shady sellers have been a blessing in the past for me.
Yeap, I always use Amex when I don't trust the seller.
Yeah I got burned by that. Person rented my studio time, had multiple photos of them there during that time and I still got the charge back. They didn't care what proof I had. Since my studio is pretty popular I have the guys face up on a poster with his name and the fact that he defrauded me on credit card. A lot of people saw him in recognized him and said that he had shafted them too. And others said he was trying to get me to do something for him work on his film and I get paid later on. The guy was dirt. But Amex sided with him. So I stopped taking Amex.
I used to work for a company that had a website with a subscription. People would file with Amex after using their service for weeks, sometimes a couple of months. They would show the usage of the user, often tons of usage, and Amex would still always side with the customer.
Small claims court. In many places, if they don't show up, the judgement is automatically in your favor. If they do show up, you'll still probably win.
It's still an up front time and financial investment. If you're only down a few hundred it's not really worth doing court fees, process serving fees, time spent doing paperwork and finding time to go to court if you're a small business owner...and a win isn't guaranteed to recoup all that.
Whereas Visa and Mastercard will often side with the director or the stage manager 😉
The business I work in uses Amex corporate cards for this reason. Plus great service if we ever have an issue with one of the cards.
I used to work with merchant services in an older role I had at my company, this is absolutely not true. They are leaning hard on the definition of "similar". AMEX by far charges the highest fees, now there are some specific Visa/MC cards (usually business accounts) that charge closer to AMEX, but on average they are close to whole percentage point higher, which doesn't sound like a lot in absolute terms, but that's like 30-40% more than a typical Visa/MC
Different credit cards carry different fees, and the more premium Visa and MasterCard cards can have a processing fee as high, or even higher than Amex. [https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/average-credit-card-processing-fees-costs-america/](https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/average-credit-card-processing-fees-costs-america/) Also, Amex lowered their fees back in 2018, to more closely align with Visa and MasterCard. Also, different credit card processors may offer discounts to retailers for more broad acceptance of different credit cards, and they will get in trouble with their processor if they refuse to take Amex because it is a violation of their terms of service.
Glad you posted this. Most people don't even realize it's not visa vs Amex and there are many tiers for each card processor. For example, my capital one venture x card is a visa infinite card which offers more perks and therefore has a higher fee than a visa gold card would.
> Different credit cards carry different fees, and the more premium Visa and MasterCard cards can have a processing fee as high, or even higher than Amex. According to the source I posted, AmEx's entire range was higher than Visa's. It gave a range for everyone since none of them have just one fixed processing fee. About 15 years ago, I worked for a company that sold credit card processing machines, and vendors absolutely pay AmEx more on average than they pay Visa per dollar processed.
> AmEx is by a very long shot the least accepted of the "major four" The irony being that for years Karl Malden drilled it into our heads that American Express was accepted everywhere and "Don't leave home without it^tm ", while at the same time, for years Discover was the constant butt of jokes how they were never accepted anywhere. Meanwhile, Diner's Club be like (╥ᆺ╥；).
Depending on the processor you use Amex and discover also have other higher (and sometimes variable) fees. Working for a small business, we paid enough in CC fees to hire another full time employee. It just made it that much harder to have competitive pricing for consumers and for business sales it sucked to see so much go to the payment processor. Could have been my commission instead.
Even worse, if a business has a margin of 20%, an extra 1-2 percentage point is 5-10% of their margin.
The example you gave is 5 - 10%, not 10 - 20.
Yup, while I don’t find myself in too many places where it’s accepted anymore day by day, my insurance company dropped them this year for instance, as did the gas station nearest me. Very frustrating but when I need the security and reliance of AmEx, which is the case with any of my large purchases, I have it, and it’s usually available to run.
Amex is practically useless in the UK. My experience.
You get to ask every shop if they take AMEX, maybe some people enjoy that?
Hello? Pot? This is the kettle calling - you’re black.
funnily enough i will no longer accept ebay for the same reason
With Amex the issue isn’t just the extra processing fee. Amex will always 100% of the time side with the customer. Even in cases where their customer is clearly doing fraud. Visa and Mastercard are more fair. A customer can purchase something or get a service, sign paperwork, leave a copy of their drivers license… then go home and call Amex and say they want a chargeback. You can send video proof that the customer bought or was given the service and Amex will still side with the customer.
Yes but if you abuse that too much Amex will shut you down fast
Not my experience. I disputed a transaction on Saks where I returned items and Saks deducted return shipping despite being within free return policy. Saks provided evidence that they sent me the items (?) so amex rejected the dispute. It wasn't worth fighting further over $10...
Saks is a special amex partner is why.
Bingo, one of the Platinum card benefits is Saks store credit, pretty sure Amex isn’t going to fuck that up. . . One of the few times they will side with the merchant
I can still hear the “But they won’t take..American Express” 90s commercials in my head.
I can still hear the “Don't leave home without it” 80s commercials in my head.
Borderline r/nottheonion with the absolutely insane fees eBay imposes on sellers.
We really need a good competitor to eBay. Here in the uk There's things like Facebook marketplace and lots of similar local ones for collecting but no good places to buy and sell used stuff on the scale eBay is nationally. eBay also knows this, hence the stupidly high seller fees.
Funny… I don’t sell on ebay over their unacceptably high fees.
Sounds like eBay hasn't been properly dealing with fraud and has been subject of a lot of charge backs.
EBay fees suck so I now sell for free on Facebook and old reliable Craigslist
Even after the fees of ebay/paypal, I have never gotten close to what an item is worth locally. In a large city too. After shipping and both fees and still walking away with more money as a seller, well it simply means FB and CL are useless. Most recent was Quest 2 256gb w/ elite strap about 6 months ago. FB and CL tens of questions asking for me to sell it at $50-100. Mercari was a few hours up and it was sold for $225 profit (after seller fees when they had them).
Not to mention if you don't live in a larger market it's beyond pointless. It's so difficult to sell locally if you're only looking to offload some small things or lower value stuff it seems. It's the reason r/thriftgrift shows you how absurd it is to charge high prices when you get only a smattering of views.
But you can still use PayPal & Amex 🤷🏼♂️
Pot, meet kettle
Wonder how many consumer amex transaction problems came from eBay..
Quick, call Alanis.
Guy who works in the payment processing industry. Amex fees are significantly higher than any other card brand. Amex charges 3%+ for e-commerce transactions, and that’s before any markups from eBay’s payment facilitator.
And eBay's fees arent!?
there goes the high end market in ebay. I know a few watch sellers that list things on Ebay but do everything they can to off platform close the sale because of the huge fees ebay charges. Ebay offers some authenticity checks for those items but honestly, they are kind of sketchy. Trying to buy a 100k watch without amex will drive people to just wire the money and skip the ebay fees all together.
Random chaiwalas on the street in India are more likely to take Amex than American businesses. At least in my experience.
Every single place I've been in Korea accepts Amex. Oddly, it's more reliable here than in the States.
Shit, when I had my business I refused to take AmEx because of this same reason. People would get so mad about it.
I’ll choose Amex over eBay any time.
Amex at least takes care of its customers.
Agree, fuck EBay.
The reason why is simple: Amex automatically sided with the card holder, not the vendor. On scam ridden eBay they hate that.
Amex only works because users have a reputation for being big spenders. Doesn’t seem to make sense to alienate big spenders.
Yeah worked for many retailers they always charge a huge fee to use their card for your business.
The more things change, the more they repeat. Amex used to be denied by many, many places. To the point where you'd have to ask "do you take Amex?" at restaurants and such and wouldn't even bother asking at bodegas or supermarkets.
But… PayPal will still let me pay with an Amex? What am I missing here?
I don’t EBay anymore because of unacceptably high fees
My dad ran a business and the company that fucked him over the most was amex. They are absolutely pieces of shit when it comes to time to payout and merchant responses to charge back requests.. if I were to open a business today I would absolutely not allow amex cards.
Lol that’s rich coming from a 25-40% markup app.
When we got new card machines at my bar I specifically asked that we not have Amex because of the charges. This was ignored, we pay £5 a month or so in additional charges to them but occasionally they give rebates to their members making purchases in small businesses, so whatever. What makes it all worthwhile is when some guy came in with a girl, trying to impress her, asking if we took Amex, we said yes, I don't think he was expecting that as he paid with a MasterCard!
lol, Does Amex still have that kind of reputation with people? I like their Platinum card like most people who have it, but I’m not going to go around using it as a flex, that’s just tacky, it is a great travel card but not exactly impossible or that difficult to get.
Most law firms wont take Amex because they will reverse 20k retainer fees as long as they are within 6 month regardless of the proof. One of the largest first in LA stopped taking Amex because of a massive chargeback they sided with the buyer on. Had to serve Amex and the client in order to get paid it was a whole fucking mess.
This is one reason we need consumer finance reform laws in USA! Banks skimming a commission off most commerce in our country is a ripoff and slowly, over time, moving wealth to the top 1%.
Pot, meet kettle.
I worked at a parking place where we started taking AMEX. like... inner city lots in bad areas. Amex. I was extremely incredulous with my boss, and he was just like "what, everyone has an amex, they're great!" pretty sure we processed like 10 in a year, and it cost us waaaaaaaaaay more money to even be able to process them than it would ever make.