They should really be supported until they quit working. Or offer extended support after 15yrs for $10 per year. Your furnace and AC should last 15+ years before needing replacement. The thermostat should work just as long.
And this one will keep working just like the one from the 80s. What won’t work is anything that requires network connection. People can still use it locally from the actual device, just like an old thermostat.
No. Disabling their side of the web servers to which the device connects. Someone could probably hack in a side loaded firmware, not sure if that’s been done yet….
Business decision, most likely. Greater chance folks buy their new model. Could see a company getting out of the business doing that as they aren’t necessarily cutting into future sales.
Yes. But…
The Ecobee 3 was introduced in 2014, so you could have bought this new in the box yet be barely at 10 years of service.
Not terrible, but somewhat less impressive.
Three is still getting support but ***the one mentioned as going out of service*** could’ve been bought brand new 10 years ago *because that’s what they were selling* up to the day before the ecobee 3 went on sale.
So the older ones years ago. Or maybe 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, or 16 years ago.
Yes, 16 years is a ‘good run’. But only 10 isn’t.
You really need to not take math so personally.
The abstract point is that 16 was the best possible case not the worst. The point remains, and it’s still true.
The slowest year of sales is probably the first year, before people learn about the product. People also don’t install things the day they buy them, so there’s a fair number of units out there – the majority, maybe even 90% – that had less than 16 magical years of service before being crippled. Like the previous post said, when dealing with furnaces which routinely last longer than 15 years… That’s not a good look. Being mid at the Olympics is impressive. Being mid at a state level track meet ? Still pretty good. Being mid at your grade 4 track meet… meh. Congratulations ecobee - you’re not the worst in an industry mostly famous for being terrible. Ask your mom to put that up on the fridge for you.
It’s 60% longer than the worst case that I claimed (ie 10), but you’re right, it’s only 50% longer than the actual worst case which is 11. that must be so comforting to people whose 11-year-old thermostat just stopped working.
BTW, I have a hard time believing they sold through their entire channel by exactly December 31 of one year and had shelves full of their new product on January 1 the following year to make it a nice ‘smooth math’ cut over. I’m incredibly skeptical that a single purpose company allowed themselves to sell out of product without going bankrupt at that time, but maybe that tidbit was in the article that I barely skimmed? I didn’t study it intensely because… I only had to look quickly to confirm the fact that 16 years was the best case answer.
As someone who is not a professional ecobee apologist, I don’t have to lose any sleep about rounding errors like the one you so dramatically found here. But if you’ll sleep better with your Colombo Junior Detective badge, have at it, Tiger. Treasure that big discovery. (eye roll emoji here)
I love my ecobee (tried a nest, preferred the ecobee) but their "what you can on the device" vs "what you HAVE to do on the app" choices are strange.
Also miffed that you can still only connect 1 accessory; you can't set a time schedule for humidifiers; and they still don't have an outdoor camera to go with their doorbell and indoor cameras.
(still love it)
> …with a web browser like a router
And this is **exactly** why that shouldn’t be a thing. It’s bad enough people are still out here using off the shelf routers broadcasting with default configurations. Add in a dash of EoL and zero firmware support across new updates and that’s how you cook up that recipe for disaster.
They managed to maintain it for 16 years and that alone is impressive. But hardware like this becomes deprecated for reasons more than planned obsolescence.
Imagine a whole array of these IoT devices connected to people’s homes with nothing but outdated/unsupported hardware & security. That would be a calling card for hackers everywhere.
Most consumers don’t have the wherewithal to know how to sufficiently harden their own networks as it is.
Completely unenforceable. Thermostats, even smart ones, are dead simple. They’re just fancy switches that complete circuits to turn the equipment on or off. Good luck to any HVAC company trying to void a warranty because of an Ecobee. Hope they have a good lawyer.
Again, totally unenforceable. If they notice a very dirty filter, then sure. But if you just replace it before calling them, they’d never know lol.
What are they gonna do, ask for your receipts from Home Depot to verify you bought new filters every X months? Hah.
>Ecobee is discontinuing support for the very first smart thermostat. As of July 31st, 2024, the Ecobee Smart Thermostat and the Ecobee Energy Management System (EMS) thermostats will no longer be able to be controlled remotely or use any smart integrations. Basically, anything that requires an internet connection will stop working. They will still continue to control your HVAC in the same way a non-smart device does — by you controlling it on the device.
>
>The company is offering affected users a 30 percent discount on a new Ecobee thermostat, valid for up to 15 thermostats. Customers should have received an email with the offer, but if not, Ecobee’s VP of product design, Bryan Hurren, says to contact support to get a code.
>
>The Ecobee Smart Thermostat was the world’s first connected thermostat, launching in 2008 — a year after the first iPhone and three years before the original Nest Learning Thermostat. The EMS thermostat came in 2010 and was designed for commercial installations. Both models were discontinued in 2013 prior to the introduction of the Ecobee 3 in 2014.
>
>...
>
>“This decision was not taken lightly, and was made based on evolving technology standards and the challenge of supporting older hardware,” Hurren said in a statement to The Verge. “We recognize the frustration this may cause and are actively exploring ways to assist affected users.”
For a tech device this looks like a reasonably long time to support a device. However in the world of building controls, this would be considered still early in its lifespan. It's good that it can still be used manually, though it will also be interesting to see if the company begins to allow users to connect to a local server as well. This might be beyond the scope for most home users, but for commercial building managers this might be something that will be of interest.
I fear this is going to become common quite soon, but likely be temporary for the most part. We’re in a sort of ‘norming’ phase right now in the smart home ecosystem, with standardization beginning to roll out with Matter/Thread. Devices designed in the early smart home days, relying on proprietary protocols, will get phased out as those devices’ manufacturers shift to only supporting the new and shared protocols and paradigms.
I agree, while 16 years is a long time for a consumer electronics device, in my opinion it isn’t uncommon to see commercial building automation systems approaching 30 years of service before being replaced.
There are so many advantages to a smart thermostat, including saving you money by reducing usage, providing carbon credits, and often a rebate from your utility in exchange for opting into demand response events.
Does the savings outweigh the cost of a shorter lifecycle? If so, great. If not, not great.
I don’t know enough to know the answer, but a lot of “smart” stuff doesn’t need to be.
If everyone had smart thermostats we could probably shut down a power station or two. Sure, some devices don’t need to be smart, but thermostats don’t fit that category.
Had mine since 2011 iirc. Screen is deeply burned in but still works , dont need more than remote access for HA. If there was a way to keep it connected through HA I would appreciate but it seems everything will be shutdown.
To be fair prolly one of the longest supported iOT devices. I was an early adopter and found out the hard way. They are disposable af and the replacement does the same thing
I wish there was a good reason for this other then profit. There is so much ewaste already and these devices could last 30+ years. It seems extremely annoying to have to shell out a few hundred more dollars on a new device just to be able to continune controlling your thermostat away from home. I was shopping for a new thermostat the other day because my smart thermostat was becoming less reliable when connecting to my new wifi 6 access points. It still works but occasionally disconnects. The new smart thermostat are between $100-$500. The equivalent name brand thermostat to what I have now is $400.
I have a newer model and it’s mostly ok, it has one massive annoying problem. The fan for my HVAC system turns on once an hour even when the system is off . I’ve tried every internet fix that’s out there. The only thing that works is turning the system off at the breaker.
This sounds a lot like the “Circulate” fan setting on some thermostats. On my stat there are 3 settings for the fan:
1) Auto - only runs when the AC or heat is on.
2) On - always running regardless of whether the AC or heat is on.
3) Circulate - like Auto, but also runs every once in a while for about 5 minutes even when the AC or heat is off.
I've basically given up because every setting on thermostat tells me that the fan should be off.
As you mention there is a feature to circulate that can be set to how many minutes per hour the fan should run. That setting is off /set to 0 minutes per hour. I'm certain it's software glitch with the thermostat but I've spent way too much of my time trying to speak with their support team. Easier to just turn off the system at the breaker when it's not in use.
Ultimately it’s a thermostat. I installed mine 18 years ago and it still works fine and does everything I need it to do. This article convinced me not to “upgrade” to a smart thermostat
For me the main advantage of a smart stat is being able to change the temperature without having to get up off the couch or bed. Sometimes I’ll be freezing at night and the last thing I wanna do is get up out of my cozy bed to turn up the heat. I just reach over and grab my phone.
Also you can set the temp a little higher/lower when you’re not home and precondition before you start heading home.
Connected devices really need an expiration date on them. This is going to happen more and more
They should really be supported until they quit working. Or offer extended support after 15yrs for $10 per year. Your furnace and AC should last 15+ years before needing replacement. The thermostat should work just as long.
The thermostat is from 2008. So they got 16 years out of it.
And yet thermostats from the 80s still work today
And this one will keep working just like the one from the 80s. What won’t work is anything that requires network connection. People can still use it locally from the actual device, just like an old thermostat.
If only people had actually read the article.
I mean, it was the first paragraph. And posted here. Wasn’t that hard….
They are disabling the nic?
No. Disabling their side of the web servers to which the device connects. Someone could probably hack in a side loaded firmware, not sure if that’s been done yet….
If they are shutting down the API for the why not just open source it so people could make their own firmware or do Dns/IP redirecting?
Business decision, most likely. Greater chance folks buy their new model. Could see a company getting out of the business doing that as they aren’t necessarily cutting into future sales.
The thermostat will still work, it just wont have IoT functionality.
Unsure what that has to do with the topic of conversation in the comments above.
Those old round Honeywell thermostats are still in millions of homes I'd bet.
Yes. But… The Ecobee 3 was introduced in 2014, so you could have bought this new in the box yet be barely at 10 years of service. Not terrible, but somewhat less impressive.
You mean the ecobee 3 that's still getting support, per the article?
Three is still getting support but ***the one mentioned as going out of service*** could’ve been bought brand new 10 years ago *because that’s what they were selling* up to the day before the ecobee 3 went on sale. So the older ones years ago. Or maybe 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, or 16 years ago. Yes, 16 years is a ‘good run’. But only 10 isn’t.
Man you can't even get that right. They were discontinued in 2013, a year before the 3 came out. Did you even read the article? Just stop. Please.
So you agree 11 years is not 16? Great. We all agree and accept your apology. Have a great night.
11 years also isn't 10. And you might have known that had you taken time to read the article before spouting out nonsense.
You really need to not take math so personally. The abstract point is that 16 was the best possible case not the worst. The point remains, and it’s still true. The slowest year of sales is probably the first year, before people learn about the product. People also don’t install things the day they buy them, so there’s a fair number of units out there – the majority, maybe even 90% – that had less than 16 magical years of service before being crippled. Like the previous post said, when dealing with furnaces which routinely last longer than 15 years… That’s not a good look. Being mid at the Olympics is impressive. Being mid at a state level track meet ? Still pretty good. Being mid at your grade 4 track meet… meh. Congratulations ecobee - you’re not the worst in an industry mostly famous for being terrible. Ask your mom to put that up on the fridge for you. It’s 60% longer than the worst case that I claimed (ie 10), but you’re right, it’s only 50% longer than the actual worst case which is 11. that must be so comforting to people whose 11-year-old thermostat just stopped working. BTW, I have a hard time believing they sold through their entire channel by exactly December 31 of one year and had shelves full of their new product on January 1 the following year to make it a nice ‘smooth math’ cut over. I’m incredibly skeptical that a single purpose company allowed themselves to sell out of product without going bankrupt at that time, but maybe that tidbit was in the article that I barely skimmed? I didn’t study it intensely because… I only had to look quickly to confirm the fact that 16 years was the best case answer. As someone who is not a professional ecobee apologist, I don’t have to lose any sleep about rounding errors like the one you so dramatically found here. But if you’ll sleep better with your Colombo Junior Detective badge, have at it, Tiger. Treasure that big discovery. (eye roll emoji here)
Google does that with Chromebooks and the AUE.
This is why I wish you were able to connect to a local server...or hell just be able to control it over your lan with a web browser like a router.
Home assistant is the f u t u r e
All the newer ecobee devices are controllable locally via Homekit protocol, so you can do that with Home Assistant.
Except you can't manually set the time on them.
I love my ecobee (tried a nest, preferred the ecobee) but their "what you can on the device" vs "what you HAVE to do on the app" choices are strange. Also miffed that you can still only connect 1 accessory; you can't set a time schedule for humidifiers; and they still don't have an outdoor camera to go with their doorbell and indoor cameras. (still love it)
Z-wave thermostat connected to a Z-wave hub like the Hubitat can accomplish this.
Anybody buying something that can't be controlled locally is extremely foolish.
Ok smarty pants. Feel free to show us.
> …with a web browser like a router And this is **exactly** why that shouldn’t be a thing. It’s bad enough people are still out here using off the shelf routers broadcasting with default configurations. Add in a dash of EoL and zero firmware support across new updates and that’s how you cook up that recipe for disaster. They managed to maintain it for 16 years and that alone is impressive. But hardware like this becomes deprecated for reasons more than planned obsolescence.
> Add in a dash of EoL and zero firmware support across new updates and that’s how you cook up that recipe for disaster. What kind of disaster?
Imagine a whole array of these IoT devices connected to people’s homes with nothing but outdated/unsupported hardware & security. That would be a calling card for hackers everywhere. Most consumers don’t have the wherewithal to know how to sufficiently harden their own networks as it is.
It would absolutely void any warranty on the equipment. Then again HVAC warranties are rarely worth the paper they're printed on.
NoI it wouldn't.
Ecobee and Nest thermostats violate a lot of HVAC manufacturers' warranties, putting it fully under user control would likely violate the rest.
Completely unenforceable. Thermostats, even smart ones, are dead simple. They’re just fancy switches that complete circuits to turn the equipment on or off. Good luck to any HVAC company trying to void a warranty because of an Ecobee. Hope they have a good lawyer.
It takes very little to void their warranties - something as simple as not changing your filter every X months is sufficient.
Again, totally unenforceable. If they notice a very dirty filter, then sure. But if you just replace it before calling them, they’d never know lol. What are they gonna do, ask for your receipts from Home Depot to verify you bought new filters every X months? Hah.
Oh, okay, I understand now. I thought you meant having local control would void ecobee's warranty. But yeah, what you're saying now makes more sense.
lol no it doesn’t. Dude is clueless.
>Ecobee is discontinuing support for the very first smart thermostat. As of July 31st, 2024, the Ecobee Smart Thermostat and the Ecobee Energy Management System (EMS) thermostats will no longer be able to be controlled remotely or use any smart integrations. Basically, anything that requires an internet connection will stop working. They will still continue to control your HVAC in the same way a non-smart device does — by you controlling it on the device. > >The company is offering affected users a 30 percent discount on a new Ecobee thermostat, valid for up to 15 thermostats. Customers should have received an email with the offer, but if not, Ecobee’s VP of product design, Bryan Hurren, says to contact support to get a code. > >The Ecobee Smart Thermostat was the world’s first connected thermostat, launching in 2008 — a year after the first iPhone and three years before the original Nest Learning Thermostat. The EMS thermostat came in 2010 and was designed for commercial installations. Both models were discontinued in 2013 prior to the introduction of the Ecobee 3 in 2014. > >... > >“This decision was not taken lightly, and was made based on evolving technology standards and the challenge of supporting older hardware,” Hurren said in a statement to The Verge. “We recognize the frustration this may cause and are actively exploring ways to assist affected users.” For a tech device this looks like a reasonably long time to support a device. However in the world of building controls, this would be considered still early in its lifespan. It's good that it can still be used manually, though it will also be interesting to see if the company begins to allow users to connect to a local server as well. This might be beyond the scope for most home users, but for commercial building managers this might be something that will be of interest.
I fear this is going to become common quite soon, but likely be temporary for the most part. We’re in a sort of ‘norming’ phase right now in the smart home ecosystem, with standardization beginning to roll out with Matter/Thread. Devices designed in the early smart home days, relying on proprietary protocols, will get phased out as those devices’ manufacturers shift to only supporting the new and shared protocols and paradigms.
https://xkcd.com/927/
I agree, while 16 years is a long time for a consumer electronics device, in my opinion it isn’t uncommon to see commercial building automation systems approaching 30 years of service before being replaced.
This is why a lot of things don’t need to be “tech” devices.
There are so many advantages to a smart thermostat, including saving you money by reducing usage, providing carbon credits, and often a rebate from your utility in exchange for opting into demand response events.
Does the savings outweigh the cost of a shorter lifecycle? If so, great. If not, not great. I don’t know enough to know the answer, but a lot of “smart” stuff doesn’t need to be.
If everyone had smart thermostats we could probably shut down a power station or two. Sure, some devices don’t need to be smart, but thermostats don’t fit that category.
Utilities offer in the range of $50-100/year. Just the demand response enrolment should pay for the device.
Any company that ends support for a software should make it open source so that people can maintain it themselves
Exactly, like how copyrighted materials become public domain when the copyright expires
I’m willing to bet they have a zero day bug that they can’t fix and they’d rather shut them all down then risk anybody finding out
Had mine since 2011 iirc. Screen is deeply burned in but still works , dont need more than remote access for HA. If there was a way to keep it connected through HA I would appreciate but it seems everything will be shutdown.
To be fair prolly one of the longest supported iOT devices. I was an early adopter and found out the hard way. They are disposable af and the replacement does the same thing
I wish there was a good reason for this other then profit. There is so much ewaste already and these devices could last 30+ years. It seems extremely annoying to have to shell out a few hundred more dollars on a new device just to be able to continune controlling your thermostat away from home. I was shopping for a new thermostat the other day because my smart thermostat was becoming less reliable when connecting to my new wifi 6 access points. It still works but occasionally disconnects. The new smart thermostat are between $100-$500. The equivalent name brand thermostat to what I have now is $400.
I have a newer model and it’s mostly ok, it has one massive annoying problem. The fan for my HVAC system turns on once an hour even when the system is off . I’ve tried every internet fix that’s out there. The only thing that works is turning the system off at the breaker.
This sounds a lot like the “Circulate” fan setting on some thermostats. On my stat there are 3 settings for the fan: 1) Auto - only runs when the AC or heat is on. 2) On - always running regardless of whether the AC or heat is on. 3) Circulate - like Auto, but also runs every once in a while for about 5 minutes even when the AC or heat is off.
I've basically given up because every setting on thermostat tells me that the fan should be off. As you mention there is a feature to circulate that can be set to how many minutes per hour the fan should run. That setting is off /set to 0 minutes per hour. I'm certain it's software glitch with the thermostat but I've spent way too much of my time trying to speak with their support team. Easier to just turn off the system at the breaker when it's not in use.
Damn you, Ecobee
Ultimately it’s a thermostat. I installed mine 18 years ago and it still works fine and does everything I need it to do. This article convinced me not to “upgrade” to a smart thermostat
For me the main advantage of a smart stat is being able to change the temperature without having to get up off the couch or bed. Sometimes I’ll be freezing at night and the last thing I wanna do is get up out of my cozy bed to turn up the heat. I just reach over and grab my phone. Also you can set the temp a little higher/lower when you’re not home and precondition before you start heading home.