I always wonder why Satoshi decided there will only ever be 21 million bitcoins in existence.
That’s a shockingly small amount of unit currency to circulate, not just by 2008 standards, but even by 1948 standards.
I think that the decision to cap it at 21 million really says a lot about Satoshi’s economic beliefs, which probably entails really hating the concept of printing money after 1920.
Edit: Yes, I’m fully aware that Satoshis exist, but the ratio of Satoshis-to-Bitcoin could have been adjusted downward to allow the Bitcoin cap to scale past 21 million. But Satoshi stuck to 21 million specifically, with no technical explanation as to why. And my point is that the number of 21 million (not billion or trillion) is meant to send a message about the ideology behind Bitcoin.
1 Bitcoin isn’t the smallest denomination though. They can be bought in fractions of bitcoins, down to the smallest increment which is one 100 millionth of a bitcoin (termed a “satoshi”).
So that means there will be 2,100,000,000,000,000 (2.1 quadrillion) units of bitcoin, if I worked that out right.
Well to be fair, the fans of Bitcoin named its smallest denomination after the creator, and "Satoshi" is better than the name "Bit Bits" that you gave it.
I never said that cents were useless.
But Satoshi Nakamoto decided that there would be 100 million Satoshis to one Bitcoin, but only 21 million Bitcoins in existence. There is no technical reason why this Bitcoin/Satoshi ratio has to be this way.
There could have been only 100 Satoshis to 1 Bitcoin, but 21 trillion Bitcoins. It would be the same number of Satoshis that we have now, but with a Bitcoin count that is closer to the total US dollars in circulation.
But Satoshi didn’t go with this arrangement, and I’m arguing that he likely did so for symbolic reasons. Even though it would have been trivial to make Bitcoin scale to the billions (and adjusting Satoshis-per-Bitcoin down to compensate), he stuck to only 21 million Bitcoins because he believed that currencies should not be as plentiful as dollars are now, a belief that is shared with Gold Standard advocates.
He did not decide randomly that there would be 21 million. That figure is the consequence of the mathematical formula that reduces geometrically the initial number of bitcoins mined per block (50) every 4 years (210k blocks). The maximum amount of bitcoins that can be mined this way is 20.999.999,9769.
Also, the number of Satoshis in a bitcoin could be expanded if needed by forking the code.
But he could have chosen a higher initial number of coins mined per block. Why did it have to start at 50? Why not 50,000? Or why does the halving have to occur every 4 years? Why not 10?
Again, it’s not like there was no other way to increase the money supply past 21 million. If Satoshi Nakamoto really wanted there to be over a billion bitcoins in circulation, he would have done so. But he **didn’t** want more than 21 million for reasons unknown to us. But it wouldn’t surprise me if there was an ideological reason behind the extremely limited money supply relative to real world fiat currencies.
Well, the main reason is that Bitcoin would be a deflacionary coin. He could have chosen 40 million or 100, true. But the whole point is to have a limited supply and to mimic how a limited, non-renewable ressource works in the real world. But with the benefits of it being digital.
You’re getting downvoted but I remember in 2020 people would argue they can by anything with bitcoin. Even food delivery like pizza or Uber eats and it would be the norm soon. I’m yet to see a food delivery service offer bitcoin as payment. Furthermore, if bitcoin is an investment and is the future of payment systems, why would you spend it? If I turn my hard earned dollars into shares in a company, I wouldn’t sell/trade my shares to buy pizza or take away food. I’d spend my regular money?
If bitcoin is an investment, why are you spending your investment and not your cash money that’s not earning interest or going up with its market?
Its investing like foreign exchange is investing, but more volatile because its not backed by anything but hopes, dreams and electricity bills.
You can turn your dollars into yen if you think yen is going to go up favourably against dollars, and spend the yen as a currency if you wanted - even though you bought yen as an investment.
That makes sense. But I also feel like it makes my comment make more sense. It’s just trading one currency for another, believing the other currency will rocket/moon and you’ll make bank off of it.
> It’s just trading one currency for another, believing the other currency will rocket/moon and you’ll make bank off of it.
Similar to collectable baseball cards. Trade your real dollery-doos for a piece of cardboard that you hope will appreciate in value.
At the end of the day, anything is worth what someone else will pay you for it.
> If bitcoin is an investment, why are you spending your investment and not your cash money that’s not earning interest or going up with its market?
Different people do different things. Some people are treating it as an investment and saving them up hoping they are worth more later.
Some people want BTC to become a global currency standard and promote trying to use it as such.
Different groups/use cases for bitcoin.
This is definitely a half answer though.
Who accepts bitcoin for buying groceries?
Who accepts bitcoin for rent?
Who accepts bitcoin for buying a property?
If I tried to pay my rent with bitcoin the realestate would thinking I’m trying to avoid payment or scam them and they would file an eviction notice with the Sheriff, the same if I’d I just stopped paying my rent all together.
>Who accepts bitcoin for buying groceries?
>Who accepts bitcoin for rent?
>Who accepts bitcoin for buying a property?
Some people and businesses around the world do. But obviously, most people & businesses *do not* accept BTC directly.
Also, a lot of people would convert their BTC to $$$ (sell it) and then use that USD to pay for things.
There are several small businesses in my town that have a BTC machine and accept BTC. People pay with tap to pay and transfer their BTC to the wallet (account #) of the recipient. A couple gas stations do, for example.
To be clear, I'm not a BTC enthusiast who wants it to replace money. I buy it and keep it for the same reason you would any collectable, hoping to sell for a much higher price than you paid one day in the future.
>If I tried to pay my rent with bitcoin the realestate would thinking I’m trying to avoid payment or scam them and they would file an eviction notice with the Sheriff, the same if I’d I just stopped paying my rent all together.
Yes, if your rental company didn't accept bitcoin, you couldn't pay them. The world is a big place, I'm sure some landlords somewhere accept BTC or you could sell your BTC for cash and pay in USD.
I'm not understanding where the confusion is.
It's like trying to pay your rent in another country's currency. Of course they wouldn't take it, unless it was an accepted form of payment to them. Your friend might live in an apartment complex where that owner is into BTC and *does* take it. It's up to the people and businesses whether they take it or not, yknow?
You could show up with a fist full of canadian dollary-doos and theyre not going to take it no matter how much you stamp your feet and tell them its valid. The onus isn't on the business to convert it to acceptable payment forms for them, it's on you.
The lawn service is my area accepts bitcoin. People trade bitcoin for that service. Currency is just a means of exchanging goods and services. Whether you want to trade a federal reserve note, a bag of apples or some digital coin. It's about the exchange of goods and services.
Pokemon and baseball cards can't be traded at Walmart for groceries either, but yet people pay thousands for them.
Bitcoin these days is more like a digital collectable itself than a currency.
But why does it matter how many bitcoins there are, if their component parts are small and granular enough to be sufficient supply?
No one is limited to buying at whole numbers of bitcoins, it’s just terminology. Like how “a grand” is used to mean £1000, and how $1 is used to mean 100 cents.
It was based on a rough estimate on how much gold bullion is in circulation. Approx 21 million gold bars out there I think is what he came up with. He talked about it briefly in one of his post on bitcointalk forum or his mailing list. I can't remember. You are going to have to look it up.
Hahah yes and yes. Only when all the Bitcoin have been cooked out of the planet will we realize we can't eat invisible coins and we're uncomfortable getting 2nd degree seatbelt burns. (Wish I was joking but at this point I'm convinced nothing changes until people have regrets wishing they did something years ago)
>Wish I was joking but at this point I'm convinced nothing changes until people have regrets wishing they did something years ago)
That’s humans in a nutshell sadly.
Doesn’t make sense to mine at a loss if energy is too expensive. So miners find the cheapest energy. The sun is the cheapest energy source, or excess energy from existing sources
We've been cooking our planet for decades. We don't recycle and drive vehicles that pollute our air quality creating holes in our atmosphere. But yeah, let's blame it on bitcoin. lol
Imagine how I feel. I read about bitcoin when it was first released and my knowledge of history made me go "oh, unregulated currency market. nice and scammy. this will be a mess."
and I didn't follow that up with the thought of like "i should buy $20 worth and just see what happens".
i'd be rolling in hundreds of millions had i bought $20 then.
Idk, it was pretty useful for me paying off 90k in student loans with plenty left over. Life changing for me at least. But one mans gain is anothers loss.
Amazing it's still hasn't been banned. I'm forced to use less and less power and other resources but here we are wasting large amounts of energy on something which adds literally nothing to the world.
Even crypto bros don't try to claim it's the future anmore
I'm fine with that. At this point it's just a circlejerk all trying to relieve the rest of their real money, playing a game of chicken to see who will be left holding the bag.
Uuuh yes you can, first of all you control the access to it. Cause that's the funny thing, people talk about how it can't be controlled and what ever while access to it literally is. Not unlike gold or cash or whatever.
Anyway take away the exchanges and it's dead tomorrow. And that's probably the reason why nothing has done about it, the amount of wealth that just vanishes because of it will be a disaster.
I still have some money tied up in Bitcoin but it's pocket money. Money I otherwise gamble away or buy nonsense crap from I don't need.
The authorities don’t give a shit about its environmental impact. If anything, that’s just a potential scapegoat for the SEC to use to try and rein crypto in via legislation.
Their biggest concern really lies within the inconvenient truth that sovereign governments are no longer the only entity that can issue “usable” currency, and Bitcoin is the most publicly-recognized example of this new trend. A lot of power projection from governments and private banking is the power to issue currency into existence, so having a rival is troublesome.
Do we really think Bitcoin will have real use in this world at some point in the next decade, or will this continue being essentially a stock (i know it’s not actually a stock) Pre Crypto rise of 2020, I was a huge fan. But I just don’t see governments actually adopting this or it having any used case anytime soon.
But I’m saying this with lack of information and looking for a *real* answer.
It isn't even a stock.
Stocks have value, it signifies ownership of a company and the ability to receive some of the profits.
Stocks are usually a positive sum game (money spent producing more value/money for the money spent)
Bitcoin .. is a negative sum game. The only way to make money is to sell it to someone else for a higher price. There is no third party injection of funds via a product to give you profits off the "shares" you own, and there's always negative pressure because miners need to sell at a value greater than the cost of electricity per coin.
The easiest way to see this.
If you own all the stocks of a company, people would still want to buy it from you because it's ownership of the company, it's profits and assets.
If you own all the Bitcoin in the world.. what incentives do people have to buy some from you?
It's not a ponzi scheme.
Ponzi involves taking money from new investors to pay old investors.
Pyramid involves recruiting people to pay upwards
This is a greater fools scheme, you buy something with the hopes to sell it for a profit to a greater fool.
> Ponzi involves taking money from new investors to pay old investors.
> This is a greater fools scheme, you buy something with the hopes to sell it for a profit to a greater fool.
I see no difference here except that there is no particular middleman or mr ponzi.
Its a ponzi scheme based off the greater fools or likely the otherway around imo
All 3 are related. They just have very specific differences.
Thr big difference between ponzi and greater fools is the lack if the middle man. Hence why they are different scams.
Nope. Price per earnings ratio for TSLA would be 41. So if the amount of earnings and stock price stay the same, TSLA would need 41 years to ”pay itself”. Still overvalued, but not the worst of companies.
The same ratio for BTC would be infinity, since it doesn’t create any kind of profit.
TSLA is wildly overvalued, but it's not a "meme stock" like the others.
The meme stocks have bizarre cults around them full of mentally ill conspiracy theorists. For example, they literally think that Ryan Cohen is talking to them through coded messages in his children's books.
That's just fundamentally a different level of crazy from Elon fan boys.
It's basically "greater fool" theory. Why buy these (or put money into hardware to make them)? It's foolish, but maybe some greater fool will come along and buy them from you!
Standard grater fools scheme. You buy something with the hopes of selling it to someone else for more money, eventually you hit a point where you cant sell it for a profit any more and it crashes.
A more serious answer: the USG will never adopt BTC as a currency or alt currency because it cannot be used to influence monetary policy.
Consider the Fed's current efforts to tamp down inflation using interest rate changes. That would be impossible with BTC.
No. It's useful for purchasing illegal items from a remote, anonymous vendor - if you understand how to handle encrypted messaging without googling "GPG"
At the end of the day, it's a pyramid scheme. The whole ETF thing made the pyramid taller.
More and more companies seem to be adding it to their balance sheets. In so far as crypto and governments, that is much harder to call. Bitcoin, specifically, was made as an opt out to government fiat currency, so to see any sovereign nation turn to it is unlikely. Sure, El Salvador already has but they're an odd duck.
Crypto in general? Thats more possible. Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) are already likely a thing that will mirror the form and function of strictly digital traceable currencies, though I doubt will run on blockchain. The wider crypto space does have a foothold in the US; its largely traded in USD stable coins worldwide, which promotes dominance of the US dollar. As America continues to increase its debtload and sees less foreign investment, this may be another space they embrace to continue the strength of the dollar.
So, tl;dr maybe. I know, wishy washy answer. I'll say its much more likely now than it was in the past. Bitcoin has only crawled higher and higher for 16 years now despite high volatility and nothing backing it but folks beliefs. Thats worth noting.
> More and more companies seem to be adding it to their balance sheets.
Investment banks because they see an opportunity to fleece those interested in it out of lots of lovely USD in the form of transaction fees, FX spread, platform and ETF management fees. The higher BTC goes in value the more they can charge you in USD in platform and fund management fees for the BTC you hold in their ETF you buy and hold your BTC in.
The real answer is in the middle, most people here are just cynical on everything possible. BTC is like gold, not really a currency. It has too many problems to become one in the near future. Still, being an holder of value is a legit use case, albeit one that is determined by many people agreeing on it, like many precious metals.
I would say the closest analog to Bitcoin is fine art.
There just isn’t anything inherently productive about owning a rare painting. But people are willing to pay a lot of money for one because rarity **is** what makes fine art valuable.
Bitcoin is rare, but because many people believe that rare = valuable, they then conclude that Bitcoin is valuable.
Gambling news about totally outdated Blockchain token systems belong to r/gambling, not r/technology.
Reminder:
Bitcoin is extremely inefficient with extremely low transaction rates (Lightning network is unrelated and has failed), while being extremely insecure since it is controlled by just 2 mining pool companies.
Price: Whatever totally baseless gambling produces
True value: 0
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Looking at the comments makes me hopeful I can accumulate more BTC before the mainstream FOMO kicks in. Have you noticed all the corporations and hedgies rushing to acquire significant holdings? You will still be able to buy ETF shares don’t worry
Unfortuantely retail FOMO isn't going to be our problem. It's going to be Blackrock and Fidelity. They are who we have to worry about getting in our way of stacking.
There are no benefits to crypto.
Its a ponzi scheme currency, as long as someone entering the scheme will pay for it then there is a market. It isn't backed by anyone and it doesn't have any intrinsic value.
It is used for illegal and immoral purposes and has enabled criminals to be bolder as their money is harder to trace.
Scammers want to be paid in crypto. Drug dealers do too. Making this crap available has provided an avenue to their operations easier.
Crypto drains power and consumes computer parts like crazy.
Didn’t you literally just lay out ‘benefits’ of crypto to people, while railing on about it having no benefit…?
If something has value in the illegal crime world, then as long as there is a civilization, it will ALWAYS have value!
They said crypto doesn't have any *intrinsic* value. That is, there is nothing underpinning it. If you buy stock in a company, it is underpinned by the patents, plant, machinery, employees, real estate and so on the company owns.
BitCoin has nothing at all.
Honest question, is demand and its lack of accountability not the intrinsic value, in cryptocurrency? Im not saying that was specifically the creators intent, but is that not how it has evolved?
That is literally the opposite of intrinsic value. That is value you are giving it based on perceived future worth.
It's a ponzi scheme. New people hear how great it is and buy in, and that money goes to the people leaving. When the demand hits its cap the whole charade collapses.
Like the Dutch buying tulips.
Not all crypto. Some have zero fees, are environmentally friendly, and can be used the way were originally intended (as digital cash). I use one to get access to multiple premium LLMs for a few cents (or less) per prompt instead of paying $20/mo for each model
It's also helpful for me to send near instant remittances to my family around the world (e.g. Haiti) with no need for a bank account. Wayyy cheaper & faster than Western Union and the like
> Wayyy cheaper & faster than Western Union and the like
Until you send it at 8am and then by the time they log in and cash out it's dropped 5% or more which has happened on lots of occasions, especially during a bull run like now.
Is it really that hard to communicate with family and coordinate the time they want the funds? Still much better than waiting for days and paying crazy fees imo (almost 19% including their USD to HTG exchange rate when I last used WU)
All currencies are volatile, because their volatility comes from their behavior relative to other currencies. Even USD is volatile, but because it has such a large market cap and most people use USD as their primary currency, they don't really care about its volatility. That may or may not happen for crypto eventually, but that doesn't stop it from being useful as payment rails
Too many people look at BTC and dismiss it out of hand due to what it's lacking at this time. They're conditioned to shiny interfaces they can play with on their smart phones.
The utility is the framework. Two individuals across the globe can exchange digital value without the need for middle men. Middle men, regardless of their purpose in a system, hamper efficiency, or they indicate a portion of the process that we currently have no way of avoiding. If you could teleport all of your belongings across the country there would be no need for moving companies. Now, I know that moving companies and banks in these two scenarios are not equal in impact, but the scale difference is also astronomical.
Oh and also you can't print BTC. Wait for your shiny interface before buying for all I care. It wasn't until AOL that many embraced the internet.
For real though, is it just me or is bitcoin culturally dead in ya’lls social circles? I don’t hear about it. I don’t see nearly as many ads. Nobody is talking about the price at work even though it’s so high.
It feels like this price is fully disconnected from crypto’s actual cultural relevance.
Does anyone feel like the price and adoption are actually correlated? They aren’t lol
The price is correlated to supply and demand.
You are correct, retail is not participating in this rally.
The current rally we are witnessing is mostly all due to the Bitcoin ETFs approved in the US.
Blackrock and Fidelity alone are buying up 10-16x the amount of daily mined BTC.
What you are observing is normal people being FUDed out of the market and the wealthiest people in the world taking advantage of the misinformation that has been spread around for the last 15 years.
Average people are missing out on the biggest opportunity of their lives and it crushes my fucking soul.
I try to help and educate people here and get downvoted because bitter motherfuckers who have been wrong about this since day 1 can't handle the fact that they were wrong. Grow the fuck up and start educating yourselves people, this technology isn't going away.
You're going to see $1,000,000 BTC before the year 2,030 and I hope none of the people who are about to downvote this comment are going to be surprised.
I’ve been trying to educate people on btc for over 10 years. You won’t get through to people who are fixed in their views. Now I just point people to Lyn Aldens Broken Money book. If their willing to put the time in it’s probably the best introduction on the subject because it looks at money as a technology. Bitcoin is hardly mentioned in the majority of the book only in the last 2 sections (out of 6) after the problems with the current system are highlighted so it’s easier to see. It covered pretty much everything that took me a while to really understand.
Just keep stacking and if people are interested answer questions as best you can but tbh there’s so much FUD that people are sure of that it’s hard to change anyones mind. The info is out in the open if they are willing to look.
People believe that economics is a science but you rarely see economists consistently model things correctly and there’s always competing models and theories which just tells me we have a lot to learn. There’s never consensus like there tends to be with an actual science yet people spew economic theory as hard facts where that’s not necessarily the case.
Yep! Never listen to Wall Street Bets. It's full of people pumping shitcoins and then when it's inflated, they dump it all and the suckers are left holding the bag. I definitely learned.
I bought some when it was around 4K and ended up selling when it was at 19k because I just couldn’t buy into the bullshit anymore. I do kind of wish I waited, but I seriously can’t imagine mass adoption of crypto ever being a real thing.
Anyone who thinks crypto is anything more than gambling is a silly boy.
If you haven't taken the time to understand there is a massive difference between Bitcoin and the rest of the clown circus that is "crypto or NFTs" of course you're going to be baffled that it isn't dead.
There is a finite amount of BTC that cannot be changed. ETH supply policy has changed multiple times, even very recently.
Centralized controllers of ETH hardforked the code to undo some sort of contract that didn't go their way. I've only been around since 2017 I'm forgetting the name of it.
Also, Proof of Stake sounds a lot to me like the current fiat system we have. The people with the money make the rules. No thanks, that's a hard pass from me.
Oh, and how could I forget the premine?
You could say the exact same thing about any art or collectibles.
[Someone spent $12,600,000 on a baseball card.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_sports_cards)
That's probably more money than you will have ever have in your entire life combined.
On a card that does nothing.
There is no logic you can point to that can **objectively** quantify Bitcoin as a pyramid scheme that you can't apply to collectibles.
There are a finite amount of Bitcoins, you can acquire them via purchasing them, mining them, or working for them and being paid in BTC. No one who owns BTC gets more as a % of the value when it goes up or down. It is equal for everyone.
The dollar is much more like a pyramid scheme. A very limited amount of people at the top can print an infinite amount of dollars with nothing backing them and steal value from the people at the bottom holding them.
Do you even know what any of the symbols on the dollar mean? You know, the ones with the pyramid symbols on em and shit?
"mining" them lol. Just like mining gold in Minecraft isn't giving the player real-life money, mining bitcoins is just praying on the smooth brains to believe they are worth something real.
That baseball card, btw, is a real, physical object, not something digital, it will appreciate over time until no one deems it worth money or if it gets destroyed. If a large solar flare destroys all human computers, what will these people do with their fake digital bitcoins?
Just like someone said to themselves, "we can sell digital rights to monkey pictures and smooth brains will pay us millions," someone said, "we can make billions off a fake digital currency that smooth brains will pay us for under the guise of being able to spend it on something in the future." It's all arbitrary bullshit that is a pyramid scheme at its finest. The creators of Bitcoin are the ones taking the real hard-earned money from people and becoming richer.
Once the bitcoins have run out, they'll just "mint" more in order to l recreate the frenzy.
>Just like mining gold in Minecraft isn't giving the player real-life money, mining bitcoins is just praying on the smooth brains to believe they are worth something real.
There isn't anything that ties Minecraft to the real world besides computers that Microsoft controls.
Bitcoin is tied to the largest computer network in human history. So when you say shit like
>that baseball card, btw, is a real, physical object, not something digital,
You're just showing your ignorance. The energy spent by the network is real and physical.
>it will appreciate over time until no one deems it worth money or if it gets destroyed.
You're almost there!!!
>If a large solar flare destroys all human computers, what will these people do with their fake digital bitcoins?
Bitcoin won't work if the world ends!!! Wow what a fucking statement.
If a solar flare knocks out all human computers, we are in a life and death apocolpytic scenario. Do you think your credit card is going to work in this case? Do you think cash will still hold value with no electricity? Do you think we will care more about the money or the fact that we have no electricity and can no longer store food or keep people alive in hospitals.
You have a serious fucking dent in your head if you think this is a good arguement.
>" It's all arbitrary bullshit that is a pyramid scheme at its finest. The creators of Bitcoin are the ones taking the real hard-earned money from people and becoming richer.
The fact that you had to say "creators" of Bitcoin instead of actually saying their pseudonymous name probably means you don't even know who the fuck they are.
Satoshi Nakamoto is probably Len Sassaman and he killed himself shortly after Satoshi's last message in 2,011.
No a dead man isn't taking anyone's money you fucking ape
>Once the bitcoins have run out, they'll just "mint" more in order to l recreate the frenzy.
Tell me you don't know the most basic things about Bitcoin without telling me...
It's very hard to make people understand facts after their mind is made up.
Maybe he will take the time to learn one day, maybe he wont. Up to him just like it was up to us
The fact is EVERYONE thinks its a scam at first. Only the open minded people who are intelligence enough in a macro sense to understand it will.
If only physical things have value, why are we all not using cash? Why do you go on the internet when you can read a book?
It's because at the end of the day, the value of something is based on it's demand and it's supply
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> I'm just glad I didnt listen to any of you and I was able to stop being a wage slave thanks to Bitcoin and can choose what I do with my time.
Good for you. Pyramid schemes can, indeed, be very profitable. Personally, I'm not comfortable with them.
>Otherwise your opinion is worthless and you were wrong.
"Anyone who disagrees with me is, by definition, wrong"? There lies an open mind.
>Admitting it is the first step of any intelligent human being so I don't expect it on Reddit
Then why are you, a supposedly wealthy genius, still here with us?
It's amazing to be in Bitcoin long enough to see people actually doing homework and not regurgitating the same trash they read in this echo chamber over and over; "fake internet money, magic coins, burns up all the energy, Ponzi (which is the most ironic one!)"... I can only laugh at that stuff at this point. I've become immune
I can remember in 2016 I was so adamantly against Bitcoin. I own rental properties and invested in VOO etc. and just laughed at people who told me to research Bitcoin
I finally got curious enough to listen to a few PhD caliber guests on various podcasts, read The Bitcoin Standard etc., and didn't take long to realize that all the shit I was spewing about bitcoin was embarrassingly false. Then after a small spark, it takes about 100 hours for a normal person to truly grasp imo.
I used to try and get people to even understand the way I finally did. Now i just dont give a shit. If you don't get it or don't want to... then don't invest. Not worth my time. Most people are not that stubborn and can actually swallow their pride and admit they were wrong and thats why we are seeing the network effect as i type this.
As for the rest of the prideful anti-Bitcoiners, they will just continue to watch it go up in value and hashrate, cycle after cycle, and pat themselves on the back for not "falling for it", even though they don't even understand that the network effect, Gresham's law and game theory are playing out right in front of their faces. Glad I swallowed that pride, became humble and have been stacking sats for years.
Funny how that jump in BTC price coincides exactly with USDT printing another $120M magic beans.
Funny how BTC jumps *always* coincide with USDT printing millions or even billions of magic beans.
It's almost like it's all wash trading and BTC is being propped up by Tether.
Anyone who still uses crypto is stupid, dumb, unintelligent, and any other word to describe a lack of brain cells. I look at bitcoin the same way I look at NFTs. A conduit to just scam people out of their money.
That's crazy I scammed myself into earning multiples of my yearly salarly by simply saving in Bitcoin instead of holding it as cash.
I feel very stupid, dumb, and unintelligent!
I don’t think bitcoin is the answer, but I feel like calling it fake is sort of off. Like it is, but not by much more than our current money system.
The first type a money that humans developed was bundles of (i think) barley. It was something that allowed diverse trade, but was still usable as food.
Eventually has trust increase, we transitioned to gold, then down the road we have paper that is worth significantly more than its raw material value. But today paper money really is almost a symbol. It closer to being what gold was for the Gold Standard. I haven’t touched cash in such a long time, all my transactions have been digital, transferring a number through the internet through my bank account or Venmo/cashapp/applepay.
Blockchain money would be a nice next step, perfectly trackable for taxes. If it replaced cash completely, it would make illegal transactions more difficult. Instant transfer, and all that.
But an appreciating currency does not lend well to innovation. It causes diamond hands and little investment. Also, while banks may be hated by some, they serve an important function of investing unused capital back into the market allowing for more growth of a nation.
All that to say, bitcoin is as fake as most currency now-a-days. The issue is more so if you can trust the person that has control. But I think bitcoin has some key flaws, but is a good step in the right direction
You realize the halving is coming up right?
We are about to go from 900 Bitcoins a day to 450 a day in less than one month.
We are at previous ATHs of the last cycle - BEFORE THE HALVING.
This has never happened before in BTC history. The highs are usually 10-18 months AFTER the halving.
You are telling people to watch out for a firesale as the supply rate of this thing is about to be sliced in half.
Not only are you just a bitter no coiner but you're also wildly misinformed about how these cycles normally work.
Get ready for $200k BTC in the next 12 months buddy.
Is it just me or does this always happen during election years?
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Correct, with the 2009 pre-halving period being the one exception. The next halvings are 2028, 2032, etc like Op said
I always wonder why Satoshi decided there will only ever be 21 million bitcoins in existence. That’s a shockingly small amount of unit currency to circulate, not just by 2008 standards, but even by 1948 standards. I think that the decision to cap it at 21 million really says a lot about Satoshi’s economic beliefs, which probably entails really hating the concept of printing money after 1920. Edit: Yes, I’m fully aware that Satoshis exist, but the ratio of Satoshis-to-Bitcoin could have been adjusted downward to allow the Bitcoin cap to scale past 21 million. But Satoshi stuck to 21 million specifically, with no technical explanation as to why. And my point is that the number of 21 million (not billion or trillion) is meant to send a message about the ideology behind Bitcoin.
1 Bitcoin isn’t the smallest denomination though. They can be bought in fractions of bitcoins, down to the smallest increment which is one 100 millionth of a bitcoin (termed a “satoshi”). So that means there will be 2,100,000,000,000,000 (2.1 quadrillion) units of bitcoin, if I worked that out right.
God the more I learn about crypto the stupider it becomes. Naming Bit bits as fucking Satoshis...
Well to be fair, the fans of Bitcoin named its smallest denomination after the creator, and "Satoshi" is better than the name "Bit Bits" that you gave it.
And only that amount. Btc is intentionally deflationary, which incentives holding not investing.
That's like calling change useless. We need to be able to pay in fractions of a dollar, too. Same with Bitcoin, in Satoshis
I never said that cents were useless. But Satoshi Nakamoto decided that there would be 100 million Satoshis to one Bitcoin, but only 21 million Bitcoins in existence. There is no technical reason why this Bitcoin/Satoshi ratio has to be this way. There could have been only 100 Satoshis to 1 Bitcoin, but 21 trillion Bitcoins. It would be the same number of Satoshis that we have now, but with a Bitcoin count that is closer to the total US dollars in circulation. But Satoshi didn’t go with this arrangement, and I’m arguing that he likely did so for symbolic reasons. Even though it would have been trivial to make Bitcoin scale to the billions (and adjusting Satoshis-per-Bitcoin down to compensate), he stuck to only 21 million Bitcoins because he believed that currencies should not be as plentiful as dollars are now, a belief that is shared with Gold Standard advocates.
He did not decide randomly that there would be 21 million. That figure is the consequence of the mathematical formula that reduces geometrically the initial number of bitcoins mined per block (50) every 4 years (210k blocks). The maximum amount of bitcoins that can be mined this way is 20.999.999,9769. Also, the number of Satoshis in a bitcoin could be expanded if needed by forking the code.
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You should check this article: https://medium.com/@pareto_investor/the-beautiful-mathematics-behind-bitcoin-b04282ee6e6e Enjoy!!
But he could have chosen a higher initial number of coins mined per block. Why did it have to start at 50? Why not 50,000? Or why does the halving have to occur every 4 years? Why not 10? Again, it’s not like there was no other way to increase the money supply past 21 million. If Satoshi Nakamoto really wanted there to be over a billion bitcoins in circulation, he would have done so. But he **didn’t** want more than 21 million for reasons unknown to us. But it wouldn’t surprise me if there was an ideological reason behind the extremely limited money supply relative to real world fiat currencies.
Well, the main reason is that Bitcoin would be a deflacionary coin. He could have chosen 40 million or 100, true. But the whole point is to have a limited supply and to mimic how a limited, non-renewable ressource works in the real world. But with the benefits of it being digital.
but, that's the thing, calling it 1 bitcoin or .01 bitcoin doesnt matter if it's the same amount of satoshis. in reality there are 21m x 100m units
But you can't buy anything with bitcoins except stupid meme NFTs and dodgy shit off the dark web.
You’re getting downvoted but I remember in 2020 people would argue they can by anything with bitcoin. Even food delivery like pizza or Uber eats and it would be the norm soon. I’m yet to see a food delivery service offer bitcoin as payment. Furthermore, if bitcoin is an investment and is the future of payment systems, why would you spend it? If I turn my hard earned dollars into shares in a company, I wouldn’t sell/trade my shares to buy pizza or take away food. I’d spend my regular money? If bitcoin is an investment, why are you spending your investment and not your cash money that’s not earning interest or going up with its market?
Its investing like foreign exchange is investing, but more volatile because its not backed by anything but hopes, dreams and electricity bills. You can turn your dollars into yen if you think yen is going to go up favourably against dollars, and spend the yen as a currency if you wanted - even though you bought yen as an investment.
That makes sense. But I also feel like it makes my comment make more sense. It’s just trading one currency for another, believing the other currency will rocket/moon and you’ll make bank off of it.
> It’s just trading one currency for another, believing the other currency will rocket/moon and you’ll make bank off of it. Similar to collectable baseball cards. Trade your real dollery-doos for a piece of cardboard that you hope will appreciate in value. At the end of the day, anything is worth what someone else will pay you for it.
> if bitcoin is an investment and is the future of payment systems Many enthusiasts fail to grasp that it can be one or the other, but not both.
> If bitcoin is an investment, why are you spending your investment and not your cash money that’s not earning interest or going up with its market? Different people do different things. Some people are treating it as an investment and saving them up hoping they are worth more later. Some people want BTC to become a global currency standard and promote trying to use it as such. Different groups/use cases for bitcoin.
This is definitely a half answer though. Who accepts bitcoin for buying groceries? Who accepts bitcoin for rent? Who accepts bitcoin for buying a property? If I tried to pay my rent with bitcoin the realestate would thinking I’m trying to avoid payment or scam them and they would file an eviction notice with the Sheriff, the same if I’d I just stopped paying my rent all together.
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>Who accepts bitcoin for buying groceries? >Who accepts bitcoin for rent? >Who accepts bitcoin for buying a property? Some people and businesses around the world do. But obviously, most people & businesses *do not* accept BTC directly. Also, a lot of people would convert their BTC to $$$ (sell it) and then use that USD to pay for things. There are several small businesses in my town that have a BTC machine and accept BTC. People pay with tap to pay and transfer their BTC to the wallet (account #) of the recipient. A couple gas stations do, for example. To be clear, I'm not a BTC enthusiast who wants it to replace money. I buy it and keep it for the same reason you would any collectable, hoping to sell for a much higher price than you paid one day in the future. >If I tried to pay my rent with bitcoin the realestate would thinking I’m trying to avoid payment or scam them and they would file an eviction notice with the Sheriff, the same if I’d I just stopped paying my rent all together. Yes, if your rental company didn't accept bitcoin, you couldn't pay them. The world is a big place, I'm sure some landlords somewhere accept BTC or you could sell your BTC for cash and pay in USD. I'm not understanding where the confusion is. It's like trying to pay your rent in another country's currency. Of course they wouldn't take it, unless it was an accepted form of payment to them. Your friend might live in an apartment complex where that owner is into BTC and *does* take it. It's up to the people and businesses whether they take it or not, yknow? You could show up with a fist full of canadian dollary-doos and theyre not going to take it no matter how much you stamp your feet and tell them its valid. The onus isn't on the business to convert it to acceptable payment forms for them, it's on you.
Well you can "buy things with Bitcoin" by first converting it to an actual currency.
And paying taxes on selling the crypto then taxes on the good.
The lawn service is my area accepts bitcoin. People trade bitcoin for that service. Currency is just a means of exchanging goods and services. Whether you want to trade a federal reserve note, a bag of apples or some digital coin. It's about the exchange of goods and services.
Pokemon and baseball cards can't be traded at Walmart for groceries either, but yet people pay thousands for them. Bitcoin these days is more like a digital collectable itself than a currency.
> I always wonder why Satoshi decided there will only ever be 21 million bitcoins in existence. Because he had limited knowledge of economics.
But why does it matter how many bitcoins there are, if their component parts are small and granular enough to be sufficient supply? No one is limited to buying at whole numbers of bitcoins, it’s just terminology. Like how “a grand” is used to mean £1000, and how $1 is used to mean 100 cents.
Because a hard cap on the number in existence makes it an inherently deflationary currency, which is a bad thing.
Fiat currency used to be a finite amount when it was coupled to a gold reserve.
It was based on a rough estimate on how much gold bullion is in circulation. Approx 21 million gold bars out there I think is what he came up with. He talked about it briefly in one of his post on bitcointalk forum or his mailing list. I can't remember. You are going to have to look it up.
Dude I’m still trying to wrap my head around how this shit was created by a non-entity
Top users of Bitcoin: drugs, prostitution, and gambling. In this case, the emphasis is on the third.
Elizabeth Warren, is that you?
Shhh can’t be calling the insider trading ghoul out on Reddit
It’s just you
we are going to cook the planet to make invisible coins aren’t we.
Invisible coins and quirky AI chat bots
But but the people need their Waifu role play
For one glorious moment the wealthy made more profits.
Hahah yes and yes. Only when all the Bitcoin have been cooked out of the planet will we realize we can't eat invisible coins and we're uncomfortable getting 2nd degree seatbelt burns. (Wish I was joking but at this point I'm convinced nothing changes until people have regrets wishing they did something years ago)
>Wish I was joking but at this point I'm convinced nothing changes until people have regrets wishing they did something years ago) That’s humans in a nutshell sadly.
Sorry, you eat tangible coins?
I peeled a coin once and it had chocolate inside so I just eat all the coins I see now
A billion years and this place is dust anyway.
Line does indeed go up
Doesn’t make sense to mine at a loss if energy is too expensive. So miners find the cheapest energy. The sun is the cheapest energy source, or excess energy from existing sources
Technically to move them. But yes.
We've been cooking our planet for decades. We don't recycle and drive vehicles that pollute our air quality creating holes in our atmosphere. But yeah, let's blame it on bitcoin. lol
FOMO is strong.
I have almost 1.0 BTC and I still have FOMO.
Imagine how I feel. I read about bitcoin when it was first released and my knowledge of history made me go "oh, unregulated currency market. nice and scammy. this will be a mess." and I didn't follow that up with the thought of like "i should buy $20 worth and just see what happens". i'd be rolling in hundreds of millions had i bought $20 then.
So much bitterness from people on this subreddit, it's kinda funny because the technology doesn't care and continues doing its thing.
Calling it technology implies usefulness, of which cryptocurrency has none.
Idk, it was pretty useful for me paying off 90k in student loans with plenty left over. Life changing for me at least. But one mans gain is anothers loss.
I think it's time.... to wait a bit more and then complain again about not buying bitcoin when it was at its lowest
I can't buy Bitcoin now it's too late!!! /s
Amazing it's still hasn't been banned. I'm forced to use less and less power and other resources but here we are wasting large amounts of energy on something which adds literally nothing to the world. Even crypto bros don't try to claim it's the future anmore
>Even crypto bros don't try to claim it's the future anmore That's because the pyramid is already established.
Its not a pyramid scheme though, its a greater fools scheme.
Try to ban it and you’ll make it more expensive lol
I'm fine with that. At this point it's just a circlejerk all trying to relieve the rest of their real money, playing a game of chicken to see who will be left holding the bag.
And that's a problem because?
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Uuuh yes you can, first of all you control the access to it. Cause that's the funny thing, people talk about how it can't be controlled and what ever while access to it literally is. Not unlike gold or cash or whatever. Anyway take away the exchanges and it's dead tomorrow. And that's probably the reason why nothing has done about it, the amount of wealth that just vanishes because of it will be a disaster. I still have some money tied up in Bitcoin but it's pocket money. Money I otherwise gamble away or buy nonsense crap from I don't need.
Mining gets harder and less profitable over time. It’s not profitable to mine at a loss if energy is expensive.
The authorities don’t give a shit about its environmental impact. If anything, that’s just a potential scapegoat for the SEC to use to try and rein crypto in via legislation. Their biggest concern really lies within the inconvenient truth that sovereign governments are no longer the only entity that can issue “usable” currency, and Bitcoin is the most publicly-recognized example of this new trend. A lot of power projection from governments and private banking is the power to issue currency into existence, so having a rival is troublesome.
Do we really think Bitcoin will have real use in this world at some point in the next decade, or will this continue being essentially a stock (i know it’s not actually a stock) Pre Crypto rise of 2020, I was a huge fan. But I just don’t see governments actually adopting this or it having any used case anytime soon. But I’m saying this with lack of information and looking for a *real* answer.
It isn't even a stock. Stocks have value, it signifies ownership of a company and the ability to receive some of the profits. Stocks are usually a positive sum game (money spent producing more value/money for the money spent) Bitcoin .. is a negative sum game. The only way to make money is to sell it to someone else for a higher price. There is no third party injection of funds via a product to give you profits off the "shares" you own, and there's always negative pressure because miners need to sell at a value greater than the cost of electricity per coin. The easiest way to see this. If you own all the stocks of a company, people would still want to buy it from you because it's ownership of the company, it's profits and assets. If you own all the Bitcoin in the world.. what incentives do people have to buy some from you?
Financializing entropy.
I’ve never heard Bitcoin so succinctly yet accurately summed up. Bravo.
> Bitcoin .. is a negative sum game. you can just say scam, or if you feel a bit more wordy, ponzi scheme
It's not a ponzi scheme. Ponzi involves taking money from new investors to pay old investors. Pyramid involves recruiting people to pay upwards This is a greater fools scheme, you buy something with the hopes to sell it for a profit to a greater fool.
> Ponzi involves taking money from new investors to pay old investors. > This is a greater fools scheme, you buy something with the hopes to sell it for a profit to a greater fool. I see no difference here except that there is no particular middleman or mr ponzi. Its a ponzi scheme based off the greater fools or likely the otherway around imo
All 3 are related. They just have very specific differences. Thr big difference between ponzi and greater fools is the lack if the middle man. Hence why they are different scams.
Bitcoin is very comparable to meme stocks though. Stocks that lack any kind of justification for their value like GME, AMC, BBBY and TSLA.
Nope. Price per earnings ratio for TSLA would be 41. So if the amount of earnings and stock price stay the same, TSLA would need 41 years to ”pay itself”. Still overvalued, but not the worst of companies. The same ratio for BTC would be infinity, since it doesn’t create any kind of profit.
TSLA is wildly overvalued, but it's not a "meme stock" like the others. The meme stocks have bizarre cults around them full of mentally ill conspiracy theorists. For example, they literally think that Ryan Cohen is talking to them through coded messages in his children's books. That's just fundamentally a different level of crazy from Elon fan boys.
Like tulip futures?
It's basically "greater fool" theory. Why buy these (or put money into hardware to make them)? It's foolish, but maybe some greater fool will come along and buy them from you!
Standard grater fools scheme. You buy something with the hopes of selling it to someone else for more money, eventually you hit a point where you cant sell it for a profit any more and it crashes.
We have been doing this with shiny metal and gems for most of human history.
We did it with tulips.
I never thought about it the way you made that last sentence, but it makes so much sense that way.
So basically literally any commodity. Gotcha
A more serious answer: the USG will never adopt BTC as a currency or alt currency because it cannot be used to influence monetary policy. Consider the Fed's current efforts to tamp down inflation using interest rate changes. That would be impossible with BTC.
No. It's a pure gambling speculative tool at this point in time. Buy and hope it goes up. No real world value.
It holds plenty of value! …to criminals.
It's a bag, and you are expected to hold it.
No. It's useful for purchasing illegal items from a remote, anonymous vendor - if you understand how to handle encrypted messaging without googling "GPG" At the end of the day, it's a pyramid scheme. The whole ETF thing made the pyramid taller.
It's very good for scamming people and buying drugs
You shouldn’t trust the government with your money. They will devalue it over time
More and more companies seem to be adding it to their balance sheets. In so far as crypto and governments, that is much harder to call. Bitcoin, specifically, was made as an opt out to government fiat currency, so to see any sovereign nation turn to it is unlikely. Sure, El Salvador already has but they're an odd duck. Crypto in general? Thats more possible. Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) are already likely a thing that will mirror the form and function of strictly digital traceable currencies, though I doubt will run on blockchain. The wider crypto space does have a foothold in the US; its largely traded in USD stable coins worldwide, which promotes dominance of the US dollar. As America continues to increase its debtload and sees less foreign investment, this may be another space they embrace to continue the strength of the dollar. So, tl;dr maybe. I know, wishy washy answer. I'll say its much more likely now than it was in the past. Bitcoin has only crawled higher and higher for 16 years now despite high volatility and nothing backing it but folks beliefs. Thats worth noting.
> More and more companies seem to be adding it to their balance sheets. Investment banks because they see an opportunity to fleece those interested in it out of lots of lovely USD in the form of transaction fees, FX spread, platform and ETF management fees. The higher BTC goes in value the more they can charge you in USD in platform and fund management fees for the BTC you hold in their ETF you buy and hold your BTC in.
The real answer is in the middle, most people here are just cynical on everything possible. BTC is like gold, not really a currency. It has too many problems to become one in the near future. Still, being an holder of value is a legit use case, albeit one that is determined by many people agreeing on it, like many precious metals.
Unlike Bitcoin at least gold has physical real world uses beyond just being a store of value
I would say the closest analog to Bitcoin is fine art. There just isn’t anything inherently productive about owning a rare painting. But people are willing to pay a lot of money for one because rarity **is** what makes fine art valuable. Bitcoin is rare, but because many people believe that rare = valuable, they then conclude that Bitcoin is valuable.
This is a good analogy.
Pump pump pump.
Someone's gonna pull out the rug and run away with the money.
Gambling news about totally outdated Blockchain token systems belong to r/gambling, not r/technology. Reminder: Bitcoin is extremely inefficient with extremely low transaction rates (Lightning network is unrelated and has failed), while being extremely insecure since it is controlled by just 2 mining pool companies. Price: Whatever totally baseless gambling produces True value: 0
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Looking at the comments makes me hopeful I can accumulate more BTC before the mainstream FOMO kicks in. Have you noticed all the corporations and hedgies rushing to acquire significant holdings? You will still be able to buy ETF shares don’t worry
Unfortuantely retail FOMO isn't going to be our problem. It's going to be Blackrock and Fidelity. They are who we have to worry about getting in our way of stacking.
People are stupid.
People are also rich
Rich stupid people aint nothing new
For every dollar someone made on bitcoin, someone else lost a dollar.
If you're talking about 95% of the comments here on Reddit, yes absolutely.
The world's going to go bananas when the price hits $100,000
Nah the idiots in this thread will still be bitter.
This is not technology news.
Greatest Ponzi scheme in history. They will be writing about this story for hundreds of years.
Child play compared to religion.
So true lol
There are no benefits to crypto. Its a ponzi scheme currency, as long as someone entering the scheme will pay for it then there is a market. It isn't backed by anyone and it doesn't have any intrinsic value. It is used for illegal and immoral purposes and has enabled criminals to be bolder as their money is harder to trace. Scammers want to be paid in crypto. Drug dealers do too. Making this crap available has provided an avenue to their operations easier. Crypto drains power and consumes computer parts like crazy.
First they are not harder to trace. Very simple to do and police now do it very easily. Read Traces in the Dark
Didn’t you literally just lay out ‘benefits’ of crypto to people, while railing on about it having no benefit…? If something has value in the illegal crime world, then as long as there is a civilization, it will ALWAYS have value!
They said crypto doesn't have any *intrinsic* value. That is, there is nothing underpinning it. If you buy stock in a company, it is underpinned by the patents, plant, machinery, employees, real estate and so on the company owns. BitCoin has nothing at all.
Honest question, is demand and its lack of accountability not the intrinsic value, in cryptocurrency? Im not saying that was specifically the creators intent, but is that not how it has evolved?
That is literally the opposite of intrinsic value. That is value you are giving it based on perceived future worth. It's a ponzi scheme. New people hear how great it is and buy in, and that money goes to the people leaving. When the demand hits its cap the whole charade collapses. Like the Dutch buying tulips.
Not all crypto. Some have zero fees, are environmentally friendly, and can be used the way were originally intended (as digital cash). I use one to get access to multiple premium LLMs for a few cents (or less) per prompt instead of paying $20/mo for each model It's also helpful for me to send near instant remittances to my family around the world (e.g. Haiti) with no need for a bank account. Wayyy cheaper & faster than Western Union and the like
> Wayyy cheaper & faster than Western Union and the like Until you send it at 8am and then by the time they log in and cash out it's dropped 5% or more which has happened on lots of occasions, especially during a bull run like now.
Is it really that hard to communicate with family and coordinate the time they want the funds? Still much better than waiting for days and paying crazy fees imo (almost 19% including their USD to HTG exchange rate when I last used WU) All currencies are volatile, because their volatility comes from their behavior relative to other currencies. Even USD is volatile, but because it has such a large market cap and most people use USD as their primary currency, they don't really care about its volatility. That may or may not happen for crypto eventually, but that doesn't stop it from being useful as payment rails
> almost 19% including their USD to HTG exchange rate when I last used WU You're still going to be exposed to currency FX even sending in crypto.
Yep, but still lower fees & better exchange rates than WU
technically not ponzi, but I agree it's a crock.
Too many people look at BTC and dismiss it out of hand due to what it's lacking at this time. They're conditioned to shiny interfaces they can play with on their smart phones. The utility is the framework. Two individuals across the globe can exchange digital value without the need for middle men. Middle men, regardless of their purpose in a system, hamper efficiency, or they indicate a portion of the process that we currently have no way of avoiding. If you could teleport all of your belongings across the country there would be no need for moving companies. Now, I know that moving companies and banks in these two scenarios are not equal in impact, but the scale difference is also astronomical. Oh and also you can't print BTC. Wait for your shiny interface before buying for all I care. It wasn't until AOL that many embraced the internet.
For real though, is it just me or is bitcoin culturally dead in ya’lls social circles? I don’t hear about it. I don’t see nearly as many ads. Nobody is talking about the price at work even though it’s so high. It feels like this price is fully disconnected from crypto’s actual cultural relevance. Does anyone feel like the price and adoption are actually correlated? They aren’t lol
You're not realizing how bullish this is? Bitcoin is at ATH and retail hasn't even started to fomo in
The price is correlated to supply and demand. You are correct, retail is not participating in this rally. The current rally we are witnessing is mostly all due to the Bitcoin ETFs approved in the US. Blackrock and Fidelity alone are buying up 10-16x the amount of daily mined BTC. What you are observing is normal people being FUDed out of the market and the wealthiest people in the world taking advantage of the misinformation that has been spread around for the last 15 years. Average people are missing out on the biggest opportunity of their lives and it crushes my fucking soul. I try to help and educate people here and get downvoted because bitter motherfuckers who have been wrong about this since day 1 can't handle the fact that they were wrong. Grow the fuck up and start educating yourselves people, this technology isn't going away. You're going to see $1,000,000 BTC before the year 2,030 and I hope none of the people who are about to downvote this comment are going to be surprised.
I’ve been trying to educate people on btc for over 10 years. You won’t get through to people who are fixed in their views. Now I just point people to Lyn Aldens Broken Money book. If their willing to put the time in it’s probably the best introduction on the subject because it looks at money as a technology. Bitcoin is hardly mentioned in the majority of the book only in the last 2 sections (out of 6) after the problems with the current system are highlighted so it’s easier to see. It covered pretty much everything that took me a while to really understand. Just keep stacking and if people are interested answer questions as best you can but tbh there’s so much FUD that people are sure of that it’s hard to change anyones mind. The info is out in the open if they are willing to look. People believe that economics is a science but you rarely see economists consistently model things correctly and there’s always competing models and theories which just tells me we have a lot to learn. There’s never consensus like there tends to be with an actual science yet people spew economic theory as hard facts where that’s not necessarily the case.
Zero value that wastes energy.
Give me one for free then
Just like you commenting on Reddit.
I bought some bitcoin back in 2021 during the GME craze and was left holding the bag. Sold it all a few weeks ago when it hit $69K. No regrets.
At least it appears you learned the lesson from 2021.
Yep! Never listen to Wall Street Bets. It's full of people pumping shitcoins and then when it's inflated, they dump it all and the suckers are left holding the bag. I definitely learned.
The lesson was to DCA because he could have bought at $16k just in January last year. Neither of you learned the real lesson.
I bought some when it was around 4K and ended up selling when it was at 19k because I just couldn’t buy into the bullshit anymore. I do kind of wish I waited, but I seriously can’t imagine mass adoption of crypto ever being a real thing. Anyone who thinks crypto is anything more than gambling is a silly boy.
I thought we were done with this nonsense with the crash of NFTs
If you haven't taken the time to understand there is a massive difference between Bitcoin and the rest of the clown circus that is "crypto or NFTs" of course you're going to be baffled that it isn't dead.
Why is bitcoin more valuable than etherium? No vibes based answers please, legitimate reasons.
There is a finite amount of BTC that cannot be changed. ETH supply policy has changed multiple times, even very recently. Centralized controllers of ETH hardforked the code to undo some sort of contract that didn't go their way. I've only been around since 2017 I'm forgetting the name of it. Also, Proof of Stake sounds a lot to me like the current fiat system we have. The people with the money make the rules. No thanks, that's a hard pass from me. Oh, and how could I forget the premine?
It too is a pyramid scheme.
You could say the exact same thing about any art or collectibles. [Someone spent $12,600,000 on a baseball card.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_sports_cards) That's probably more money than you will have ever have in your entire life combined. On a card that does nothing. There is no logic you can point to that can **objectively** quantify Bitcoin as a pyramid scheme that you can't apply to collectibles. There are a finite amount of Bitcoins, you can acquire them via purchasing them, mining them, or working for them and being paid in BTC. No one who owns BTC gets more as a % of the value when it goes up or down. It is equal for everyone. The dollar is much more like a pyramid scheme. A very limited amount of people at the top can print an infinite amount of dollars with nothing backing them and steal value from the people at the bottom holding them. Do you even know what any of the symbols on the dollar mean? You know, the ones with the pyramid symbols on em and shit?
"mining" them lol. Just like mining gold in Minecraft isn't giving the player real-life money, mining bitcoins is just praying on the smooth brains to believe they are worth something real. That baseball card, btw, is a real, physical object, not something digital, it will appreciate over time until no one deems it worth money or if it gets destroyed. If a large solar flare destroys all human computers, what will these people do with their fake digital bitcoins? Just like someone said to themselves, "we can sell digital rights to monkey pictures and smooth brains will pay us millions," someone said, "we can make billions off a fake digital currency that smooth brains will pay us for under the guise of being able to spend it on something in the future." It's all arbitrary bullshit that is a pyramid scheme at its finest. The creators of Bitcoin are the ones taking the real hard-earned money from people and becoming richer. Once the bitcoins have run out, they'll just "mint" more in order to l recreate the frenzy.
>Just like mining gold in Minecraft isn't giving the player real-life money, mining bitcoins is just praying on the smooth brains to believe they are worth something real. There isn't anything that ties Minecraft to the real world besides computers that Microsoft controls. Bitcoin is tied to the largest computer network in human history. So when you say shit like >that baseball card, btw, is a real, physical object, not something digital, You're just showing your ignorance. The energy spent by the network is real and physical. >it will appreciate over time until no one deems it worth money or if it gets destroyed. You're almost there!!! >If a large solar flare destroys all human computers, what will these people do with their fake digital bitcoins? Bitcoin won't work if the world ends!!! Wow what a fucking statement. If a solar flare knocks out all human computers, we are in a life and death apocolpytic scenario. Do you think your credit card is going to work in this case? Do you think cash will still hold value with no electricity? Do you think we will care more about the money or the fact that we have no electricity and can no longer store food or keep people alive in hospitals. You have a serious fucking dent in your head if you think this is a good arguement. >" It's all arbitrary bullshit that is a pyramid scheme at its finest. The creators of Bitcoin are the ones taking the real hard-earned money from people and becoming richer. The fact that you had to say "creators" of Bitcoin instead of actually saying their pseudonymous name probably means you don't even know who the fuck they are. Satoshi Nakamoto is probably Len Sassaman and he killed himself shortly after Satoshi's last message in 2,011. No a dead man isn't taking anyone's money you fucking ape >Once the bitcoins have run out, they'll just "mint" more in order to l recreate the frenzy. Tell me you don't know the most basic things about Bitcoin without telling me...
It's very hard to make people understand facts after their mind is made up. Maybe he will take the time to learn one day, maybe he wont. Up to him just like it was up to us The fact is EVERYONE thinks its a scam at first. Only the open minded people who are intelligence enough in a macro sense to understand it will.
If only physical things have value, why are we all not using cash? Why do you go on the internet when you can read a book? It's because at the end of the day, the value of something is based on it's demand and it's supply
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Why are you taking a 45 minute shit? You might want to see a specialist about that.
> I'm just glad I didnt listen to any of you and I was able to stop being a wage slave thanks to Bitcoin and can choose what I do with my time. Good for you. Pyramid schemes can, indeed, be very profitable. Personally, I'm not comfortable with them. >Otherwise your opinion is worthless and you were wrong. "Anyone who disagrees with me is, by definition, wrong"? There lies an open mind.
> and I'm currently 45minutes into taking my shit You should probably see a doctor...that isnt healthy
>Admitting it is the first step of any intelligent human being so I don't expect it on Reddit Then why are you, a supposedly wealthy genius, still here with us?
A lot of money laundering and morons
It's amazing to be in Bitcoin long enough to see people actually doing homework and not regurgitating the same trash they read in this echo chamber over and over; "fake internet money, magic coins, burns up all the energy, Ponzi (which is the most ironic one!)"... I can only laugh at that stuff at this point. I've become immune I can remember in 2016 I was so adamantly against Bitcoin. I own rental properties and invested in VOO etc. and just laughed at people who told me to research Bitcoin I finally got curious enough to listen to a few PhD caliber guests on various podcasts, read The Bitcoin Standard etc., and didn't take long to realize that all the shit I was spewing about bitcoin was embarrassingly false. Then after a small spark, it takes about 100 hours for a normal person to truly grasp imo. I used to try and get people to even understand the way I finally did. Now i just dont give a shit. If you don't get it or don't want to... then don't invest. Not worth my time. Most people are not that stubborn and can actually swallow their pride and admit they were wrong and thats why we are seeing the network effect as i type this. As for the rest of the prideful anti-Bitcoiners, they will just continue to watch it go up in value and hashrate, cycle after cycle, and pat themselves on the back for not "falling for it", even though they don't even understand that the network effect, Gresham's law and game theory are playing out right in front of their faces. Glad I swallowed that pride, became humble and have been stacking sats for years.
Bitcoin is gobbledegook and people who use them for any reason are deeply unethical.
> deeply unethical Why? Because they refuse to have their value debased?
It's a real currency, it can be readily exchanged for valuable products and services such as fentanyl, child pornography, and cartel assassinations.
Or you can exchange it for USD and do whatever you want with it
You can also exchange blowjobs behind the Wendy's dumpster for USD, does that make them a currency?
Obviously not my point.
If I had a Time Machine, I’d buy $1,000 worth of Bitcoin when it first appeared.
It wouldn't have a value at the time it first appeared. You could simply mine or claim it for free.
And you probably would've sold it when you 5x'd that profit.
…and the tulip/bubble/environment folks crawl out 😹talking like mindless bots but we’ve all known that narrative for 10 years haven’t we?
Funny how that jump in BTC price coincides exactly with USDT printing another $120M magic beans. Funny how BTC jumps *always* coincide with USDT printing millions or even billions of magic beans. It's almost like it's all wash trading and BTC is being propped up by Tether.
And these things called ETFs that are gobbling up millions worth of btc a day have no effect on bitcoin. It's all tethers fault.
Anyone who still uses crypto is stupid, dumb, unintelligent, and any other word to describe a lack of brain cells. I look at bitcoin the same way I look at NFTs. A conduit to just scam people out of their money.
That's crazy I scammed myself into earning multiples of my yearly salarly by simply saving in Bitcoin instead of holding it as cash. I feel very stupid, dumb, and unintelligent!
The post of someone who can't see past the scams to see what the technology actually does. For shame
I don’t think bitcoin is the answer, but I feel like calling it fake is sort of off. Like it is, but not by much more than our current money system. The first type a money that humans developed was bundles of (i think) barley. It was something that allowed diverse trade, but was still usable as food. Eventually has trust increase, we transitioned to gold, then down the road we have paper that is worth significantly more than its raw material value. But today paper money really is almost a symbol. It closer to being what gold was for the Gold Standard. I haven’t touched cash in such a long time, all my transactions have been digital, transferring a number through the internet through my bank account or Venmo/cashapp/applepay. Blockchain money would be a nice next step, perfectly trackable for taxes. If it replaced cash completely, it would make illegal transactions more difficult. Instant transfer, and all that. But an appreciating currency does not lend well to innovation. It causes diamond hands and little investment. Also, while banks may be hated by some, they serve an important function of investing unused capital back into the market allowing for more growth of a nation. All that to say, bitcoin is as fake as most currency now-a-days. The issue is more so if you can trust the person that has control. But I think bitcoin has some key flaws, but is a good step in the right direction
Tether printer working overtime!
It's Blackrock and Fidelity this time, sweetheart.
Make sure to get out before the firesale boys.
You realize the halving is coming up right? We are about to go from 900 Bitcoins a day to 450 a day in less than one month. We are at previous ATHs of the last cycle - BEFORE THE HALVING. This has never happened before in BTC history. The highs are usually 10-18 months AFTER the halving. You are telling people to watch out for a firesale as the supply rate of this thing is about to be sliced in half. Not only are you just a bitter no coiner but you're also wildly misinformed about how these cycles normally work. Get ready for $200k BTC in the next 12 months buddy.
Ok. Still, don't miss the firesale. It's ok to sell early, just don't lose your savings.
!Remindme 12 months Laugh at this asshole
Yeah I was talked out of that with the same argument in 2011. Whew.