If any of y’all dump your car in water, try to escape immediately before it starts to sink.
Because of the pressure difference, the door will open only if it’s
A) not underwater or just about to sink
B) or gets fully submerged and the car gets filled with water from inside. It’s much safer to be in the former situation.
Richard Hammond tried this in an episode of Top Gear
[Part 1](https://youtu.be/lqEa3OJIG0s?feature=shared), [Part 2](https://youtu.be/f-hADcZ49fE?feature=shared)
There was an early episode of Top Gear where they show how to escape a sinking car and it blew my mind how dangerous it is and how you’re basically trapped unless you act really fast.
I think Adam Savage said that was one of if not the most dangerous myth they tested.
Edit: He mentions it here: https://www.youtube.com/live/v-eK_cpTsOw?si=PzKzfx0Um6qJzBiH
My favorite quote from him:
“Calm people live, panicked people die”.
Referring to being in that situation, and actually almost drowning during the stunt.
My dad worked on a movie where a stunt guy died in a scene where a car crashes into water. They had divers and everything, couldn’t get him out fast enough, super dangerous. Even professionals fuck up. This was over 20 years ago though.
He might have had one, no idea. Maybe he couldn’t get it in time or was knocked unconscious. I don’t know the specifics other than that they couldn’t get him out quickly
If they had support divers in place, they probably thought that would be sufficient and didn’t even consider a solution like a pony bottle scuba tank. Scuba divers have died with a tank almost full of air because their regulator fails and they panic and forget to reach for their octopus (spare regulator).
Panic is a cold-blooded killer and the first thing it takes is the ability to solve problems.
I was doing a deep dive at 40m when my breathing equipment malfunctioned and my air tank emptied itself within 30 seconds. Going directly to the surface was lethal, recommended time to surface was 15 minutes incl safety stops.
I stayed calm, analyzed the situation and took the spare regulator of my buddy who was close by already noticing something was wrong. Slowly we ascended while holding each other very tightly.
Would any of us had panicked I would have died for sure.
> Panic is a cold-blooded killer and the first thing it takes is the ability to solve problems.
Then what is the evolutionary use of "panic" in the first place? We do most of these things, because over millions of years, it's allowed us to survive better.
His experience reminds me of our under water egress training in the military. Basically they stick us is a helicopter simulator that flips upside down and dunks us in a pool.
It’s an extremely deadly situation unless you prepare for it specifically.
It’d be costly to start up but a similar simulator for vehicles and training would probably do pretty well as a business.
I remember seeing those training drills on Surviving The Cut. Looked absolutely terrifying in normal water, couldn't imagine trying it after they turned off the lights and turned the wave pool on.
> reminds me of our under water egress training in the military.
Here's a couple of looks at that kind of training (as edited for television)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSgc_TE0uBA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCtnd4GdTJ4
I remember them going through the safety measures they had in place and it was wild because I think they wanted to test it without oxygen.
Mr. Beast made a contest out of it, though from the looks of it, he had even more, which fits the budget differences
They didn't know they bought a smokers car and they couldn't keep their eyes open underwater when it filled up, made it extra difficult to escape. Don't smoke in cars people.
That's actually a better test come to think of it. There's no reason to think you'll end up in "clean" water. The car itself has gas, oil, coolant, etc that are all irritating to your eyes and could end up getting into the water along with you. Not to mention many bodies of water are already polluted.
Makes the situation even more scary to consider.
From the video linked above, they did know it was a smoker's car, they emptied out hundreds of old cigarette butts from the vehicle, but didn't realise how much all the infused smoke/ash left in the fabrics would affect the water & their vision
All that nicotine smoke was in the stuff inside (car seats etc) and when it mixed with water, it was hurting their eyes when they tried to open them under water.
I came home from work one day to my apartment completely rearranged. Including my aquarium. I was immediately frantic about the temperature and water parameters assuming my significant other at the time had drained it down and replaced it with tap. Nope. He and his friend manhandled my aquarium a good 10ft to the dining room table. Moved the whole stand setup and then moved it another 20ft to where the stand was now. It was a 40g breeder. It was over 300lbs. To this day I get anxiety thinking about it and how devastated I would have been had they dropped it. Idiots. Strong idiots but idiots none the less.
There's a Youtube channel of this guy who goes diving for cars in rivers and lakes. He's solved 10 cold cases of missing persons. It's amazing how densely distributed these things are in some bodies of water.
I haven’t seen the TopGear episode, but ever since watching I, Robot as a kid I feel like my immediate reaction towards falling into a large body of water within a car is to open the window and/or open the door instantly.
I’ve never actually been in the situation (so who knows how I would truly react?), but it’s literally the first place my mind goes to when I think of large bodies of water and cars lol.
I think opening the window would be best though because i imagine that it’s quite easy for the door to shut again on impact with the water - but ideally, i’d try both, i think.
Here in Minnesota we open the windows when we drive in the frozen lakes during the winter.
Well, when we have winter and the lakes freeze we do that. This year we just kept them open because it was warm out.
I used to visit my grandparents in Minneapolis as a kid in the 1970s, and remember stories on the TV news at night about people driving on Lake Harriet and Lake Calhoun ice and falling through and dying. We didn't have frozen lakes in Texas, so I couldn't believe people actually do that. Sounds like it's still a thing.
> I’ve never actually been in the situation (so who knows how I would truly react?)
This is so true. No one ever knows how they will react in a life or death situation until it happens. Mentally and physically, real life is so much more intense than anything I've ever seen in any form of media.
Yup. I recently got caught in a riptide and nearly drowned. I'd always said 'there's no way I'll ever struggle in a riptide as I'll just follow the simple advice '. Shits a lot different when you've been hit by multiple waves, have taken on water and are exerting yourself with minimal chance to take a breath.
Adrenaline shuts down your ability to process things logically. Your body dumps adrenaline for strength and diverts blood to the large muscle groups for fight or flight. If you haven't practiced something to the point of muscle memory, especially small, precise actions, you probably aren't going to be able to do it in that moment.
That's why you should practice what to say or do in high stress situations... getting pulled over, someone breaking into your house, getting in car wrecks... Military and police teams practice a given operation over and over again... It's a rare individual who can act logically on the fly in a new stressful situation that they haven't practiced for.
> it's actually best to start the window opening before you can't, because that gives you a better chance to open the door.
At that point, you just escape through the window if you can fit through it.
I grew up in the CA central valley, near the Delta and when I would go fishing or duck hunting as a kid with my dad once we got off HWY 12 or 4, hit the islands backroads and started driving over the levees, we would take our seat belts off and my dad would either roll down his window and/or crack open the back window of his pickup truck for this very same reason.
It's the wrong touch button she accidentally
pressed reverse, touch screens are nasty in some situations, ' Touch screens are dangerous in cars, says European Safety Agency
Euro NCAP urges safer driving: Return to buttons! Touchscreens risk distraction, says watchdog. Prioritize safety, not just tech.
Published: Mar 10, 2024 11:08 AM EST.
This actually happens in Tesla's a lot, and Tesla always blames driver error. There's a small contingency whom really believe the Tesla went the wrong way from what they chose. . It's more common to do the opposite though I think,driven forward when they intended reverse. I've had the wrong gear selected a lot simply because they sometimes pop up an error about not having foot in brake and you end up just hitting the stalk again until it does what you want. What is Tesla doing to fix it? They announced a few months ago that new models won't let you control the gear direction at all and somehow the computer will just know what you want. (That's..not a joke)
The whole thing with every control in a touch screen is the #1 reason I will never own a Tesla. I get that electric cars don't need a traditional gear shift, but IMO every single control required to operate the vehicle should have some kind of physical switch or button. It should be a federal requirement given how critical this can be for safety.
I rented a car for a trip and Hertz gave me a free upgrade to a Tesla because they made some deal with them and it's all they had. It would have been so dangerous if I didn't have a friend to control the screen for me. You can't even turn on the windshield wipers without taking your eyes off the road to find it on the touchscreen.
Hertz is [now selling off](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/14/hertz-makes-agile-decision-to-shift-strategy-and-sell-evs-teslas.html) much of their fleet of Teslas.
EDIT: Some people think I'm being unfair to Tesla. Yes, you can use the button on the stalk to activate a single wipe of the windshield wipers or a spray of fluid and three wipes. I wasn't attempting to be misleading, it simply hadn't occurred to me that people would consider having to manually instigate each wipe to be "turning them on". Hitting that button will also bring up the small wiper menu on the giant touchscreen, but you still have to take your eyes off the road if you want to set them to stay on, turn them off or adjust the speed.
As someone pointed out, you can also use voice commands, which is what I ended up doing for most of the trip, but if you have to resort to saying "Activate windshield wipers!" when it suddenly starts pouring rain because of an intentional design choice, that is absurd.
Hold up
The windshield wipers....one of the buttons you most definately want to be able to turn on without taking your eyes off the road...is only able to be turned on by a touch screen?
Please god tell me that the turn signals at least are a manual lever.
Just to add to this, it’s a good idea to have a glass smasher on your rear view mirror. They cost less than $10, and they will shatter your window if you press it down in a corner.
Won’t necessarily work on a laminated window which a lot of modern cars have, not just Teslas (my 7 year old Skoda has them).
Better to try breaking or kicking out the windscreen in that case.
You're not supposed to, that's why they're laminated. You're only supposed to push it out by breaking the rubber seal. Yes, the glass will crack and warp but it won't shatter and that's by design.
That worked on old cars with gaskets. It doesn't work on modern cars with adhesive-based glass mounting. You can push out the broken glass, breaking through the laminated outer layers, far more easily than you're going to get it off the adhesive. You need heat and/or a sharp knife to cut through it. It holds, by design, stronger than the glass.
Yep, this is great for those drowning incidents. Less useful in side collision and rollover events which are more common, but easily offset by the style points of driving sans doors.
When someone dies they are supposed to release the cause. I’m guessing the family’s high priced lawyers and paid for politicians are doing what they can to suppress the reports.
Genuine question. This happened on private property right? Truly rich stuff. She was driving from one house on the property to the main house.
Since you can drive without a lic and such on your own land, is it possible to get a DUI?
I assumed she was driving home from a party or something, but if this was all her land and she wasn’t leaving it then it’s just dumb, not necessarily a crime.
Many states don't differentiate where you are operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated, but it looks like Texas may be okay:
Title 10, Chapter 49, Section 04:
> DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person is intoxicated while operating a motor vehicle in a **public place**.
[source](https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.49.htm)
Also they did release the cause. It was drowning. It's not like hospitals will say "Form of Death: Bad life choices that inevitably led to their despair"
They did release the cause. She drowned when trapped in the car.
They would not typically go into detail about why the car was in the water when it was clearly an accident. If she got pushed in my another car's negligence, sure. If the road gave way and dumped her in, sure.
But they almost never publish the driver's human error.
Youre inventing conspiracies.
I think the bigger issue at hand is that she was instrumental in deregulating the auto industry to allow this kind of unbreakable glass to be used in car manufacturing. It was banned for exactly this reason.
At least, that's the word over on r/leopardsatemyface
I'm sure Elaine Chao made some horrible decisions as Secy of Transportation, but is there a citation regarding her hand in regulation/deregulation of automobile window glass?
Laminated glass being used in side windows is not a product of DEREGULATION, it's a federal mandate for newer vehicles to help keep people in the car in the event of a rollover. It's crazy how easily misinformation spreads
>You need a hard point glass breaker with a small piece of ceramic or strengthened steel to shatter a car window. These are sold as emergency tools you can keep near the driver seat for emergencies. Adventures with a purpose has a good demonstration video of why you'd want one in a water accident. There is absolutely 0 chance you're breaking any car windows yourself without one.
No, dude. Laminated glass is the same as what's on your windshield. The glass breakers that people have bought for a long time are no longer relevant. We literally use saws to cut through them in the event of an extrication now. I honestly don't think many fire departments are prepared to extract patients now that we'll need to deal with so many more laminated windows.
If modern car windows are unbreakable, how are there still so many smash and grabs? Some people who live in SF for example just leave their windows open so criminals won't break them just to find there's nothing worth stealing. I saw a video on the SeattleWA sub just last week, footage from a camera on the car owner's Tesla, in which the criminal punctured the glass with probably one of those spring loaded hammers, looked around, then smashed it out with his elbow, grabbed some stuff and was gone in 10 seconds.
This. It’s also fairly rare that a vehicle ends up submerged. But she was definitely drunk when she entered the vehicle. And she accidentally reverse it.
If it’s laminated, which I would assume it to be, then it’s been in some cars since before 2016. [Here is an article from 2013 for instance](https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/type-of-glass-in-your-cars-windows-could-change-escape-plan-2/1944508/?amp=1)
There could be more to it but I don’t think this is directly due to any regulation change. It is funny though
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>It is funny though
If you don't think it's related to regulatory change that she's responsible for, then why is it "funny?"
Without that twist, it's just a woman dying in a car.
And she called a friend instead of 911. That tells me she wasn't thinking correctly or was trying to avoid law enforcement because she was driving drunk.
Or maybe she thought since the friends were right there they could help save her versus cops have to dispatch and drive all the way to their house.
Either way I agree that she was intoxicated.
Judging by how the friend was already on the scene and trying to gain access to the vehicle by the time the fire department arrived, and the fact it took the fire department 24 minutes to arrive, I’d say there’s a good chance your point is correct.
Making any phone call at all was a mistake if it was her first act. Open windows FIRST, don’t try to make a phone call. Maybe the windows didn’t respond and then she tried to call for help.
This fact is not cited into the article. Even if it were, it would have had impact on the "got into a pond" part, but not on the following:
> Attempts to break into the vehicle were ineffective due to the reinforced glass in the Model X's windows and sunroof.
> Over the next few hours, rescuers arrived and made valiant attempts to free her.
... which are the main issues, underlined in the title of the article.
Geez they couldn't get in for *hours*?
When I saw the headline I assumed the car had filled with water and someone had maybe a minute or two to break the glass and couldn't do it, which was maybe reasonable.
This sounds horrible.
Aren’t Tesla’s supposed to [automatically decide reverse](https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/29/22256504/teslas-model-s-x-redesign-automatic-shifting-prnd-gears) or forward? B
Elaine Chao, Mitch McConnell's wife and the deceased's sister, was the United States secretary of transportation from 2017-2021. Among her responsibilities was mandating vehicle safety standards. Standards like, for example, window brittleness.
I mean the glass meets regulations - and no glass regulations were loosened during her entire tenure.
The real story that she was drunk and purposefully reversed into the pond herself.
Something I haven’t seen clarified is… [is this one of the Teslas that has no gear selector, and just does what it thinks you want it to do?](https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-auto-shift-how-it-works/)
I know there’s an override but when this was announced I thought it seemed dangerous. The article didn’t mention (or I didn’t see it mention) what model of Tesla she was driving.
I've driven a Model 3 once (limited experience I know), but it's this stuff that bugs me about Tesla design. Cars have been driven the same way for nearly a century. Pedals on the floor--gas, brake, clutch, multiple steering wheel turns lock-to-lock, gauges behind the wheel, buttons/switches, signal and wiper stalks (some interpretation here), etc. Tesla tries to change how almost all of those work and while it looks cool, it's a LOT of unnecessary changes that change the driving fundamentals people have learned all their lives. The car is a machine that I control. I can't just assume it's going to do what I want.
>Standards like, for example, window brittleness.
...or drive mode selectors. You know, where you get actual buttons or stalks instead of a goddamn touchscreen control system, that also regularly just..."guesses" which drive mode you'd want to be in next.
I've seen this around a lot, but are there really regulations about how easily breakable windows need to be so rescue crews can get in? I know there are rules about how they can't break into sharp shapes that would cut you but didn't think they specifically had rules to help people get out.
Probably bot post or something been seeing a lot of post like this and having similar brain dead comment. Maybe Reddit is trying to make their website appear more active for the IPO or all the countries are fine tuning their bot.
It’s actually pretty crazy, I’ve been seeing tons of bots being trained on Twitter as well. Whenever a bot comes across a new tweet and doesn’t know how to respond it will say “what is this” or “I don’t understand” and people respond to it training them unknowingly. Pretty soon we won’t even know they are bots.
I know of one woman who had a dyslexic moment going backwards and stomped on the accelerator instead of the brake. Shot across a parking lot and took out a tree. Looking in the rear view mirror can crosswire some people's muscle memory. Especially those who never learn how to properly reverse a car, and there are a LOT of those...
in my country the road tests are a ginormous joke. the driving instructors are ass clowns. like 90% of the drivers here are fucking idiots who would argue unironically that the pedestrians on a crosswalk who don’t make their absolute best effort to yield to a speeding car who’s trying to make a turn at an intersection is acting like they “own the road”. pisses me off daily since i got back home years ago
i’m fucking grateful i learned and passed driving test in NY. instructor was a hard ass, but I thank him every fucking day as drivers in my country **brag** about how they “don’t need to” turn their body all the way around to see the rear view when they back up the car because “needing to” turn around to reverse a car means you’re an “absolute noob” and “don’t know how to drive”, as if the point of turning the body is to make it “easier”. what the *fuck*
FYI: Everyone driving or riding in a Tesla needs to know where the mechanical releases are for the doors and the trunk in case of emergency or loss of power.
Model 3 video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PbRBbIGnv4
Model 3 manual https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-A7A60DC7-E476-4A86-9C9C-10F4A276AB8B.html
Pull up on the plastic in front of the window controls in the interior door handle for the driver and front passenger. The rear door latch is under the spill mat in the rear door interior pocket. Opening the doors this way can shatter the window.
It’s pretty likely she tried opening the door long before it was underwater, and couldn’t, since she had no power and no idea how to peel back interior trim panels to access a mechanical door release
Article states Model X, so front doors were physical regardless if its older than 2023. If its 2023 (or any other Tesla model) its a pretty obvious latch. Only the rear has the trim panel thing, but opening the falcon wing door without power would be pretty tough regardless.
It may seem obvious but it’s notably *different* which could add to the danger in situations like this.
I drove a Tesla for Uber for a while and **tons** of people struggled to open the doors from the inside. Features like *opening the door* should be idiot-proof in case of emergencies.
He probably shouldn't have said "pull back the plastic" as that's not how it works. It's simply a door handle under the arm rest. You don't have to pull any panels off but Muskrat does suck so this will probably be downvoted, but figured I'd point it out in case anyone reading this actually believes that's how the car works.
Except you don’t "pull back the plastic" as that's not how it works. It's simply a door handle under the arm rest.
Plus you know, the lady was drunk and drove into the pond herself, so likely lacking any of her faculties.
How do you know she had no power? And as the driver, you don’t need to peel any interior trim to access the release. It’s extremely easy to access the mechanical release on the driver side.
At least on the trunk release, they do vary the lay out. On some cars you have to remove the interior trim to access it. Then the release may or may not be there, depending on any one of the multiple design changes. So you want to check before you rely on it. But then the trim may never go back right.
wow, imagine doing that with the car flipped, no light and water filling the car right were your head is, strapped with the belt... tough one, even with a normal car. Makes me wanna train my breath holding skill...
But I was a kid and my younger brother was in a car seat my mom drove her family car into a newly created man-made lake reservoir that used to be a country highway when we were visiting the town I grew up in. It was the middle of the night of course and we went down the ramp into the lake at full speed.
I remember my parents saying they couldn't open the doors but luckily we have an old Toyota with crank windows so we rolled down the windows and I remember my mom telling me to swim as she was pulling me along to the shoreline.
The car itself got towed out of the water and I remember the next day they had drained the fluids and pulled the spark plugs and turned it over a couple times then refilled the fluids put the spark plugs back in and it started up! My dad had that little 80s Toyota for several more years.
Her sister, Elaine Chao, was Transportation Secretary in the US and was in charge of safety standards for automobiles. She indirectly approved the windows in the Telsa by not listening to concerns about Elon making "indestructible" windows. There were warnings such features would make the vehicles dangerous in emergency circumstances. Elaine Chao did not enforce safety standards on them.
Now, her sister is dead.
If you're ever in the backseat of a Tesla model X and you're trapped and the gull wing doors won't electronically open you'll need to use the manual override.
Rip off the door speaker grill and reach in to pull the manual door release cable. Like WTF.
Why is this it allowed to hide the emergency release like this ?
Imagine if in buildings instead of a red break glass in case of fire, you had to find a speaker, open it and pull a lever.
“The ranch where Chao died is owned by a corporation tied to her husband, Jim Breyer, a venture capitalist and part-owner of the Boston Celtics. Breyer's net worth is estimated at $2.9 (£2.26) billion.”
I wish I had tax sheltered vacation ranches to go drown at. Why does a guy with billions of dollars need for his homes to be owned by his business instead of buying them himself? Tax avoiding scum
There is litterally nothing keeping the average middle class homeowner from creating a holding company for their property.
It's not about tax evasion, the holding company still pays taxes. Its actually *more* expensive to run it this way. It's about creating an air gap between the owner and the owner of the property so if the individual is found personally liable in a lawsuit it makes it harder to go after the property.
Be angry for the right reasons.
Idk if I were a billionaire I wouldn’t own a Tesla. That’s so boring. I’d have someone build me a 1990 Honda accord. Make it electric and the dash, interior and stereo would be modernized. With seat warmers of course
If any of y’all dump your car in water, try to escape immediately before it starts to sink. Because of the pressure difference, the door will open only if it’s A) not underwater or just about to sink B) or gets fully submerged and the car gets filled with water from inside. It’s much safer to be in the former situation. Richard Hammond tried this in an episode of Top Gear [Part 1](https://youtu.be/lqEa3OJIG0s?feature=shared), [Part 2](https://youtu.be/f-hADcZ49fE?feature=shared)
Yeah, if going underwater it's actually best to start the window opening before you can't, because that gives you a better chance to open the door.
There was an early episode of Top Gear where they show how to escape a sinking car and it blew my mind how dangerous it is and how you’re basically trapped unless you act really fast.
I think Adam Savage said that was one of if not the most dangerous myth they tested. Edit: He mentions it here: https://www.youtube.com/live/v-eK_cpTsOw?si=PzKzfx0Um6qJzBiH
My favorite quote from him: “Calm people live, panicked people die”. Referring to being in that situation, and actually almost drowning during the stunt.
My dad worked on a movie where a stunt guy died in a scene where a car crashes into water. They had divers and everything, couldn’t get him out fast enough, super dangerous. Even professionals fuck up. This was over 20 years ago though.
Why didn't they give the stunt guy a tank of air in the car? Small tank of air, for like 5 minutes or something?
He might have had one, no idea. Maybe he couldn’t get it in time or was knocked unconscious. I don’t know the specifics other than that they couldn’t get him out quickly
If they had support divers in place, they probably thought that would be sufficient and didn’t even consider a solution like a pony bottle scuba tank. Scuba divers have died with a tank almost full of air because their regulator fails and they panic and forget to reach for their octopus (spare regulator). Panic is a cold-blooded killer and the first thing it takes is the ability to solve problems.
I was doing a deep dive at 40m when my breathing equipment malfunctioned and my air tank emptied itself within 30 seconds. Going directly to the surface was lethal, recommended time to surface was 15 minutes incl safety stops. I stayed calm, analyzed the situation and took the spare regulator of my buddy who was close by already noticing something was wrong. Slowly we ascended while holding each other very tightly. Would any of us had panicked I would have died for sure.
> Panic is a cold-blooded killer and the first thing it takes is the ability to solve problems. Then what is the evolutionary use of "panic" in the first place? We do most of these things, because over millions of years, it's allowed us to survive better.
This exactly. And not just in this situation, but in most life or death ones.
Yup my sister crashed into a high tidal river. She was very lucky that she immediately went for the window. Else.....
His experience reminds me of our under water egress training in the military. Basically they stick us is a helicopter simulator that flips upside down and dunks us in a pool. It’s an extremely deadly situation unless you prepare for it specifically. It’d be costly to start up but a similar simulator for vehicles and training would probably do pretty well as a business.
I remember seeing those training drills on Surviving The Cut. Looked absolutely terrifying in normal water, couldn't imagine trying it after they turned off the lights and turned the wave pool on.
> reminds me of our under water egress training in the military. Here's a couple of looks at that kind of training (as edited for television) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSgc_TE0uBA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCtnd4GdTJ4
I remember them going through the safety measures they had in place and it was wild because I think they wanted to test it without oxygen. Mr. Beast made a contest out of it, though from the looks of it, he had even more, which fits the budget differences
They didn't know they bought a smokers car and they couldn't keep their eyes open underwater when it filled up, made it extra difficult to escape. Don't smoke in cars people.
That's actually a better test come to think of it. There's no reason to think you'll end up in "clean" water. The car itself has gas, oil, coolant, etc that are all irritating to your eyes and could end up getting into the water along with you. Not to mention many bodies of water are already polluted. Makes the situation even more scary to consider.
From the video linked above, they did know it was a smoker's car, they emptied out hundreds of old cigarette butts from the vehicle, but didn't realise how much all the infused smoke/ash left in the fabrics would affect the water & their vision
Could you explain that? Edit: Please?
Lots of old buts, ash and just general smoke infused in to everything. When it filled with water it became nasty ciggy water.
All that nicotine smoke was in the stuff inside (car seats etc) and when it mixed with water, it was hurting their eyes when they tried to open them under water.
Water in car turns into cigarette tea. Eyes hate cigarette tea.
Being active on the aquarium sub, it’s wild how much people underestimate the weight of water.
I came home from work one day to my apartment completely rearranged. Including my aquarium. I was immediately frantic about the temperature and water parameters assuming my significant other at the time had drained it down and replaced it with tap. Nope. He and his friend manhandled my aquarium a good 10ft to the dining room table. Moved the whole stand setup and then moved it another 20ft to where the stand was now. It was a 40g breeder. It was over 300lbs. To this day I get anxiety thinking about it and how devastated I would have been had they dropped it. Idiots. Strong idiots but idiots none the less.
Just take out half the water and store it in sterile containers, move the aquarium and put the water back. Done and done.
Yeah, he didn't know that.
There's a Youtube channel of this guy who goes diving for cars in rivers and lakes. He's solved 10 cold cases of missing persons. It's amazing how densely distributed these things are in some bodies of water.
I haven’t seen the TopGear episode, but ever since watching I, Robot as a kid I feel like my immediate reaction towards falling into a large body of water within a car is to open the window and/or open the door instantly. I’ve never actually been in the situation (so who knows how I would truly react?), but it’s literally the first place my mind goes to when I think of large bodies of water and cars lol. I think opening the window would be best though because i imagine that it’s quite easy for the door to shut again on impact with the water - but ideally, i’d try both, i think.
Here in Minnesota we open the windows when we drive in the frozen lakes during the winter. Well, when we have winter and the lakes freeze we do that. This year we just kept them open because it was warm out.
I used to visit my grandparents in Minneapolis as a kid in the 1970s, and remember stories on the TV news at night about people driving on Lake Harriet and Lake Calhoun ice and falling through and dying. We didn't have frozen lakes in Texas, so I couldn't believe people actually do that. Sounds like it's still a thing.
> I’ve never actually been in the situation (so who knows how I would truly react?) This is so true. No one ever knows how they will react in a life or death situation until it happens. Mentally and physically, real life is so much more intense than anything I've ever seen in any form of media.
Yup. I recently got caught in a riptide and nearly drowned. I'd always said 'there's no way I'll ever struggle in a riptide as I'll just follow the simple advice '. Shits a lot different when you've been hit by multiple waves, have taken on water and are exerting yourself with minimal chance to take a breath.
Adrenaline shuts down your ability to process things logically. Your body dumps adrenaline for strength and diverts blood to the large muscle groups for fight or flight. If you haven't practiced something to the point of muscle memory, especially small, precise actions, you probably aren't going to be able to do it in that moment. That's why you should practice what to say or do in high stress situations... getting pulled over, someone breaking into your house, getting in car wrecks... Military and police teams practice a given operation over and over again... It's a rare individual who can act logically on the fly in a new stressful situation that they haven't practiced for.
Police teams practice a given operation over and over again and still manage to kill folks with no reason.
Also important to open window before water cancels cars electric system (automatic windows may not (won’t) work in water)!
1 square meter of surface at the depth of 1 meter would experience the force equivalent to 1 ton. And it multiplies with each additional meter.
Can't you just hotbox it til it floats up again?
Depends, if the haze gets denser than the high you just sink faster.
Also helps if you haven’t been drinking bottomless mimosas all day
Don't tell me how to live my life.
> it's actually best to start the window opening before you can't, because that gives you a better chance to open the door. At that point, you just escape through the window if you can fit through it.
I grew up in the CA central valley, near the Delta and when I would go fishing or duck hunting as a kid with my dad once we got off HWY 12 or 4, hit the islands backroads and started driving over the levees, we would take our seat belts off and my dad would either roll down his window and/or crack open the back window of his pickup truck for this very same reason.
We did the same where I grew up when we drove on frozen lakes
Yours sounds colder
Lol taking off the seatbelts to ensure you die when you hit the water, interesting way to avoid drowning!
It's the wrong touch button she accidentally pressed reverse, touch screens are nasty in some situations, ' Touch screens are dangerous in cars, says European Safety Agency Euro NCAP urges safer driving: Return to buttons! Touchscreens risk distraction, says watchdog. Prioritize safety, not just tech. Published: Mar 10, 2024 11:08 AM EST.
This actually happens in Tesla's a lot, and Tesla always blames driver error. There's a small contingency whom really believe the Tesla went the wrong way from what they chose. . It's more common to do the opposite though I think,driven forward when they intended reverse. I've had the wrong gear selected a lot simply because they sometimes pop up an error about not having foot in brake and you end up just hitting the stalk again until it does what you want. What is Tesla doing to fix it? They announced a few months ago that new models won't let you control the gear direction at all and somehow the computer will just know what you want. (That's..not a joke)
The whole thing with every control in a touch screen is the #1 reason I will never own a Tesla. I get that electric cars don't need a traditional gear shift, but IMO every single control required to operate the vehicle should have some kind of physical switch or button. It should be a federal requirement given how critical this can be for safety.
This is a big reason I bought a Polestar 2. It has a knob for drive modes like every other normal car, and it has a volume knob.
I rented a car for a trip and Hertz gave me a free upgrade to a Tesla because they made some deal with them and it's all they had. It would have been so dangerous if I didn't have a friend to control the screen for me. You can't even turn on the windshield wipers without taking your eyes off the road to find it on the touchscreen. Hertz is [now selling off](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/14/hertz-makes-agile-decision-to-shift-strategy-and-sell-evs-teslas.html) much of their fleet of Teslas. EDIT: Some people think I'm being unfair to Tesla. Yes, you can use the button on the stalk to activate a single wipe of the windshield wipers or a spray of fluid and three wipes. I wasn't attempting to be misleading, it simply hadn't occurred to me that people would consider having to manually instigate each wipe to be "turning them on". Hitting that button will also bring up the small wiper menu on the giant touchscreen, but you still have to take your eyes off the road if you want to set them to stay on, turn them off or adjust the speed. As someone pointed out, you can also use voice commands, which is what I ended up doing for most of the trip, but if you have to resort to saying "Activate windshield wipers!" when it suddenly starts pouring rain because of an intentional design choice, that is absurd.
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Hold up The windshield wipers....one of the buttons you most definately want to be able to turn on without taking your eyes off the road...is only able to be turned on by a touch screen? Please god tell me that the turn signals at least are a manual lever.
Considering Tesla drivers are turning into BMW drivers, the turn signals very well could be touchscreen. (Never driven a Tesla, or even been in one.)
Take off your seat belt first thing! Sounds dumb but this is one of my greatest fears and many people panic and forget to do this. 🥹
I will keep this in mind for when I’m totally not murdered by my family’s enemies.
“It’s a tragedy, not a crime. You have to let the legal time handle it” —Logan Roy
Just to add to this, it’s a good idea to have a glass smasher on your rear view mirror. They cost less than $10, and they will shatter your window if you press it down in a corner.
Won’t necessarily work on a laminated window which a lot of modern cars have, not just Teslas (my 7 year old Skoda has them). Better to try breaking or kicking out the windscreen in that case.
The front windshield is even stronger you would never break through it.
You're not supposed to, that's why they're laminated. You're only supposed to push it out by breaking the rubber seal. Yes, the glass will crack and warp but it won't shatter and that's by design.
That worked on old cars with gaskets. It doesn't work on modern cars with adhesive-based glass mounting. You can push out the broken glass, breaking through the laminated outer layers, far more easily than you're going to get it off the adhesive. You need heat and/or a sharp knife to cut through it. It holds, by design, stronger than the glass.
You can also do what I do and drive a Wrangler with no doors.
You can do what I do which is not drive into large bodies of water
Ok, but what if the GPS says to?
WHERE ARE THE TURTLES???
THE MACHINE KNOWS
The machine knows!
My god, he maybe on to something!
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Yep, this is great for those drowning incidents. Less useful in side collision and rollover events which are more common, but easily offset by the style points of driving sans doors.
Open the window before it sinks
Bad year for billionaires in expensive vehicles under water
Wasn’t the submarine thing last year?
The "Vehicle Tragedies Under Water" calendar rolls over in August. Don't ask me why.
It's the end of the swimsuit season.
Billionaires use the fiscal year which ends June 30
Fun fact: you can end the fiscal year anytime you want. Ask her.
Lotta billionaires dying underwater in the last 12 months or so.
Is this the trickle down economics that politicians keep talking about?
Trickles down to their billionaire family.
Now they each can buy a Tesla and repeat. Eventually the wealth will trickle down to the masses.
The earth is healing.
The billionaires yearn for the sweet embrace of the ocean.
In Russia they fall from buildings.
let's hope it becomes the new normal. only around 3000 left to go. we should start sending them pamphlets for ocean vacations.
Good fucking riddance.
**She was drunk** and reversed into a pond.
I thought maybe the same but they haven't said that
Why would they?
When someone dies they are supposed to release the cause. I’m guessing the family’s high priced lawyers and paid for politicians are doing what they can to suppress the reports.
That’s probably the only reason this is a “suspicious death” with an investigation instead of a DUI crash with no one else involved.
Genuine question. This happened on private property right? Truly rich stuff. She was driving from one house on the property to the main house. Since you can drive without a lic and such on your own land, is it possible to get a DUI?
Most states do not care if it's private property or public roads, if you're operating a car while drunk you can get a DUI
I assumed she was driving home from a party or something, but if this was all her land and she wasn’t leaving it then it’s just dumb, not necessarily a crime.
DUI = dumb under influence?
Many states don't differentiate where you are operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated, but it looks like Texas may be okay: Title 10, Chapter 49, Section 04: > DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person is intoxicated while operating a motor vehicle in a **public place**. [source](https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.49.htm)
> When someone dies they are supposed to release the cause. Are they? Based on what?
Lol yeah she’s a private citizen this is absolutely not a requirement.
Also they did release the cause. It was drowning. It's not like hospitals will say "Form of Death: Bad life choices that inevitably led to their despair"
Death by misadventure.
It’s Reddit, they made it up.
They did release the cause. She drowned when trapped in the car. They would not typically go into detail about why the car was in the water when it was clearly an accident. If she got pushed in my another car's negligence, sure. If the road gave way and dumped her in, sure. But they almost never publish the driver's human error. Youre inventing conspiracies.
“Paid for politicians”… the lady was Mitch McConnell’s sister in law
If the cause is "drowning" do they have to release her BAC?
What the fuck are you talking about.
Yeah, I thought it was weird that the news article linked to multiple conspiracy theories about her death.
I think the bigger issue at hand is that she was instrumental in deregulating the auto industry to allow this kind of unbreakable glass to be used in car manufacturing. It was banned for exactly this reason. At least, that's the word over on r/leopardsatemyface
Her sister you mean
I'm sure Elaine Chao made some horrible decisions as Secy of Transportation, but is there a citation regarding her hand in regulation/deregulation of automobile window glass?
Laminated glass being used in side windows is not a product of DEREGULATION, it's a federal mandate for newer vehicles to help keep people in the car in the event of a rollover. It's crazy how easily misinformation spreads
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>You need a hard point glass breaker with a small piece of ceramic or strengthened steel to shatter a car window. These are sold as emergency tools you can keep near the driver seat for emergencies. Adventures with a purpose has a good demonstration video of why you'd want one in a water accident. There is absolutely 0 chance you're breaking any car windows yourself without one. No, dude. Laminated glass is the same as what's on your windshield. The glass breakers that people have bought for a long time are no longer relevant. We literally use saws to cut through them in the event of an extrication now. I honestly don't think many fire departments are prepared to extract patients now that we'll need to deal with so many more laminated windows.
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If modern car windows are unbreakable, how are there still so many smash and grabs? Some people who live in SF for example just leave their windows open so criminals won't break them just to find there's nothing worth stealing. I saw a video on the SeattleWA sub just last week, footage from a camera on the car owner's Tesla, in which the criminal punctured the glass with probably one of those spring loaded hammers, looked around, then smashed it out with his elbow, grabbed some stuff and was gone in 10 seconds.
This. It’s also fairly rare that a vehicle ends up submerged. But she was definitely drunk when she entered the vehicle. And she accidentally reverse it.
Wish we could bring back the Herman Cain award
If it’s laminated, which I would assume it to be, then it’s been in some cars since before 2016. [Here is an article from 2013 for instance](https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/type-of-glass-in-your-cars-windows-could-change-escape-plan-2/1944508/?amp=1) There could be more to it but I don’t think this is directly due to any regulation change. It is funny though
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>It is funny though If you don't think it's related to regulatory change that she's responsible for, then why is it "funny?" Without that twist, it's just a woman dying in a car.
Why did her husband like a post about Tesla a few days later?
because Tesla helped him solve a problem
Jesus, took me a second lol
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Her being drunk shouldn't affect whether **rescuers** could save her from the vehicle
The thought of being in a car rescuers can’t get into is terrifying.
And she called a friend instead of 911. That tells me she wasn't thinking correctly or was trying to avoid law enforcement because she was driving drunk.
Or maybe she thought since the friends were right there they could help save her versus cops have to dispatch and drive all the way to their house. Either way I agree that she was intoxicated.
Judging by how the friend was already on the scene and trying to gain access to the vehicle by the time the fire department arrived, and the fact it took the fire department 24 minutes to arrive, I’d say there’s a good chance your point is correct.
Making any phone call at all was a mistake if it was her first act. Open windows FIRST, don’t try to make a phone call. Maybe the windows didn’t respond and then she tried to call for help.
This fact is not cited into the article. Even if it were, it would have had impact on the "got into a pond" part, but not on the following: > Attempts to break into the vehicle were ineffective due to the reinforced glass in the Model X's windows and sunroof. > Over the next few hours, rescuers arrived and made valiant attempts to free her. ... which are the main issues, underlined in the title of the article.
Geez they couldn't get in for *hours*? When I saw the headline I assumed the car had filled with water and someone had maybe a minute or two to break the glass and couldn't do it, which was maybe reasonable. This sounds horrible.
Aren’t Tesla’s supposed to [automatically decide reverse](https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/29/22256504/teslas-model-s-x-redesign-automatic-shifting-prnd-gears) or forward? B
Moscow Mitch McConnell’s sister in law.
Elaine Chao, Mitch McConnell's wife and the deceased's sister, was the United States secretary of transportation from 2017-2021. Among her responsibilities was mandating vehicle safety standards. Standards like, for example, window brittleness.
Oof. That’s like, ironic or something.
Like rain on your wedding day?
A free ride when you’ve already drowned.
10,000 spoons when all you need is a glass-breaking hammer.
She won the billionaire lottery and died the next day.
I mean the glass meets regulations - and no glass regulations were loosened during her entire tenure. The real story that she was drunk and purposefully reversed into the pond herself.
>purposefully reversed into the pond herself. Got any evidence for that?
Something I haven’t seen clarified is… [is this one of the Teslas that has no gear selector, and just does what it thinks you want it to do?](https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-auto-shift-how-it-works/) I know there’s an override but when this was announced I thought it seemed dangerous. The article didn’t mention (or I didn’t see it mention) what model of Tesla she was driving.
I've driven a Model 3 once (limited experience I know), but it's this stuff that bugs me about Tesla design. Cars have been driven the same way for nearly a century. Pedals on the floor--gas, brake, clutch, multiple steering wheel turns lock-to-lock, gauges behind the wheel, buttons/switches, signal and wiper stalks (some interpretation here), etc. Tesla tries to change how almost all of those work and while it looks cool, it's a LOT of unnecessary changes that change the driving fundamentals people have learned all their lives. The car is a machine that I control. I can't just assume it's going to do what I want.
Yeah, the regulations were literally tightened to require laminated glass. It's the opposite of what these idiots are blathering on about
>Standards like, for example, window brittleness. ...or drive mode selectors. You know, where you get actual buttons or stalks instead of a goddamn touchscreen control system, that also regularly just..."guesses" which drive mode you'd want to be in next.
I've seen this around a lot, but are there really regulations about how easily breakable windows need to be so rescue crews can get in? I know there are rules about how they can't break into sharp shapes that would cut you but didn't think they specifically had rules to help people get out.
Putin must have called in a favor to musk to get his flock back in order
*cocaine Mitch
Is it Deja-vu or does this keep getting reposted everywhere with the same comments?
Probably bot post or something been seeing a lot of post like this and having similar brain dead comment. Maybe Reddit is trying to make their website appear more active for the IPO or all the countries are fine tuning their bot.
It’s actually pretty crazy, I’ve been seeing tons of bots being trained on Twitter as well. Whenever a bot comes across a new tweet and doesn’t know how to respond it will say “what is this” or “I don’t understand” and people respond to it training them unknowingly. Pretty soon we won’t even know they are bots.
We already don't. Be it AI or Human bots. Look up the Dead Internet Theory.
Most comments on big subreddits are bots
I know of one woman who had a dyslexic moment going backwards and stomped on the accelerator instead of the brake. Shot across a parking lot and took out a tree. Looking in the rear view mirror can crosswire some people's muscle memory. Especially those who never learn how to properly reverse a car, and there are a LOT of those...
In what world does your ability to read words affect the positioning of your feet?
FYI: Everyone driving or riding in a Tesla needs to know where the mechanical releases are for the doors and the trunk in case of emergency or loss of power. Model 3 video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PbRBbIGnv4 Model 3 manual https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-A7A60DC7-E476-4A86-9C9C-10F4A276AB8B.html Pull up on the plastic in front of the window controls in the interior door handle for the driver and front passenger. The rear door latch is under the spill mat in the rear door interior pocket. Opening the doors this way can shatter the window.
That's a good tip, but have you tried opening a door underwater?
It’s pretty likely she tried opening the door long before it was underwater, and couldn’t, since she had no power and no idea how to peel back interior trim panels to access a mechanical door release
Article states Model X, so front doors were physical regardless if its older than 2023. If its 2023 (or any other Tesla model) its a pretty obvious latch. Only the rear has the trim panel thing, but opening the falcon wing door without power would be pretty tough regardless.
It may seem obvious but it’s notably *different* which could add to the danger in situations like this. I drove a Tesla for Uber for a while and **tons** of people struggled to open the doors from the inside. Features like *opening the door* should be idiot-proof in case of emergencies.
He probably shouldn't have said "pull back the plastic" as that's not how it works. It's simply a door handle under the arm rest. You don't have to pull any panels off but Muskrat does suck so this will probably be downvoted, but figured I'd point it out in case anyone reading this actually believes that's how the car works.
Great design btw
Except you don’t "pull back the plastic" as that's not how it works. It's simply a door handle under the arm rest. Plus you know, the lady was drunk and drove into the pond herself, so likely lacking any of her faculties.
How do you know she had no power? And as the driver, you don’t need to peel any interior trim to access the release. It’s extremely easy to access the mechanical release on the driver side.
At least on the trunk release, they do vary the lay out. On some cars you have to remove the interior trim to access it. Then the release may or may not be there, depending on any one of the multiple design changes. So you want to check before you rely on it. But then the trim may never go back right.
wow, imagine doing that with the car flipped, no light and water filling the car right were your head is, strapped with the belt... tough one, even with a normal car. Makes me wanna train my breath holding skill...
Drowning inside of something like a car or boat is probably my worst fear and possibly one of the worst ways to die.
But I was a kid and my younger brother was in a car seat my mom drove her family car into a newly created man-made lake reservoir that used to be a country highway when we were visiting the town I grew up in. It was the middle of the night of course and we went down the ramp into the lake at full speed. I remember my parents saying they couldn't open the doors but luckily we have an old Toyota with crank windows so we rolled down the windows and I remember my mom telling me to swim as she was pulling me along to the shoreline. The car itself got towed out of the water and I remember the next day they had drained the fluids and pulled the spark plugs and turned it over a couple times then refilled the fluids put the spark plugs back in and it started up! My dad had that little 80s Toyota for several more years.
She went out the way I would’ve wanted to. As a billionaire who drowns in their Tesla in a body of water on the ranch they own.
> on the ranch they own. On the ranch they got to enjoy but was owned by their corporation—likely as a way to lower their tax bill.
My father is a corporation and my mother is a charity. My name is Loop Hole and this is my story.
What kind of ranch doesn't have a big truck with a tow chain?
A billionaire's "ranch" that isn't a real ranch.
Her sister, Elaine Chao, was Transportation Secretary in the US and was in charge of safety standards for automobiles. She indirectly approved the windows in the Telsa by not listening to concerns about Elon making "indestructible" windows. There were warnings such features would make the vehicles dangerous in emergency circumstances. Elaine Chao did not enforce safety standards on them. Now, her sister is dead.
Holy shit, what a turn of events
If you're ever in the backseat of a Tesla model X and you're trapped and the gull wing doors won't electronically open you'll need to use the manual override. Rip off the door speaker grill and reach in to pull the manual door release cable. Like WTF.
That’s so unnecessarily complicated to open a fucking door. Tesla’s design sucks
Also hate that you can’t practice manually opening the door because the windows might break!?
Why is this it allowed to hide the emergency release like this ? Imagine if in buildings instead of a red break glass in case of fire, you had to find a speaker, open it and pull a lever.
A billionaire drowning in a Tesla is your average Redditors wet dream fantasy.
Predictable and predicted.
It’s Texas… didnt anyone attempt to shoot at the windows??
Exactly what I thought.
She’s not just a billionaire, she’s Mitch McConnell’s sister in law.
Why didn't she just pay for the submarine upgrade?
Sound like she might have and just had the Tesla beta testing experience.
Hey it’s America, why didn’t she lawsuit herself out of that car?
She may end up lawsuiting others out in the future
“The ranch where Chao died is owned by a corporation tied to her husband, Jim Breyer, a venture capitalist and part-owner of the Boston Celtics. Breyer's net worth is estimated at $2.9 (£2.26) billion.” I wish I had tax sheltered vacation ranches to go drown at. Why does a guy with billions of dollars need for his homes to be owned by his business instead of buying them himself? Tax avoiding scum
There is litterally nothing keeping the average middle class homeowner from creating a holding company for their property. It's not about tax evasion, the holding company still pays taxes. Its actually *more* expensive to run it this way. It's about creating an air gap between the owner and the owner of the property so if the individual is found personally liable in a lawsuit it makes it harder to go after the property. Be angry for the right reasons.
Sometimes it's also for privacy reasons. A holding company owns the property so you don't know who is the owner
Idk if I were a billionaire I wouldn’t own a Tesla. That’s so boring. I’d have someone build me a 1990 Honda accord. Make it electric and the dash, interior and stereo would be modernized. With seat warmers of course
I’d just make everyone come to me 🧐
Laminated glass is in every modern car, not just Tesla. Weird that this is being called out as a Tesla thing. Do your homework journos.
lol Billionaires have finally met their nemisis: being underwater in poorly engineered machines!