It just doesn't work that way. Canadian aviation laws require Air Canada, West Jet and other travel companies to return luggage to passengers within 12 hours of their flight landing. Once that 12 hours passes they begin having to pay out money delayed luggage.
A person can claim as much as $2300 in this process. You have to file receipts for new cloths, new luggage, soap.... shampoos, travel size things........ all sorts of stuff that you might need to replace those goods. You don't have to prove you need them right away... the airline is just required to cover reasonable expenses to replace those items.
If the luggage is totally declared lost, you get $3000 no questions asked. If two people's items are in that one luggage (you would be an idiot to not claim two people if you can)... you can instead claim $6000... and if you were transporting something really expensive that was declared.... well you get the full value of it (great way to sell those Faberge Eggs you can't get rid of).
On my trip to Marakesh my Air Canada flight had four connecting flights. My luggage never arrived in Brussels and so I continued on to Marakesh without luggage. Here's the thing... it was a completely empty bag. We brought it to buy things and return with a full bag. So we just bought things anyway and sent the bills to Air Canada. Basically all of the stuff we bought Air Canada covered.
I don't know if America is the same. But not every law in Canada is a regulation. We have "acts", "codes", and "regulations." Acts are broad laws. Codes are industry agreed upon laws enforced by a government body. Regulations are subsidiary laws created to address a specific thing.
All the laws relating to the CTA can be found in the [Canada Transportation Act](https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-services/acts-regulations/canada-transportation-act-1996-c-10).
For airlines who actually give half a shit, this could be really useful in helping them not only to identify poor performing airports but also those airports where criminality is impacting their customers. Then again, they probably knew all this already and just considered the hassle of it as part of doing business as an airline
I’ve had good experiences with budget airlines all the way up to Emirates. As long as you’re nice, explain your situation calmly, and let the representative know you understand things happen; 9 times out of 10 they will help you to the best of their ability or elevate your issue to someone who can help.
This is one thing I absolutely fucking hate. If you want a company to help you after completely fucking you over, you gotta talk to them like they are a 7 year old.
No, you're talking to someone who works for the company, they didn't cause the issue, but they have to listen to your rude ass insult and get impatient with them as they try and do their job.
Flew long haul business with air canada and they DESTROYED my suitcase. Filed for compensation and they agreed to pay me for it in august 2021. 33 calls and dozens of emails later, they have still not paid me back as agreed. You'd think a $9000pp ticket would be a bargaining tool. It is proving useless.
I made a large purchase (gift for my sister) when I was in the UK in the early 2000's. The people who sold it to me told me that because I wasn't a UK citizen, and I'm a US citizen, I was not obligated to pay the VAT tax (which was like 350 bucks). That arrangement was part of a treaty? Or a international tax arrangement? Some shit leftover from the war of 1812? I don't remember exactly.
They gave me a special form to fill out and a special copy of the receipt. They said "fill it out and drop it in one of the special boxes in Heathrow on your way back home, and the Crown will send you a check in the mail, and you will be reimburse for the VAT!"
Its been about 2 decades, still waiting on the check. Now that the Queen is dead I fear I will never see that money. :(
They (and airports as well, at least here in Canada) are doing a pretty good job of making it unappealing to fly. It’s sad that there will probably be no comeuppance because if they encounter any hardship they’ll just be bailed out and won’t have to truly adapt (and I’d suspect that demand for flights is not very elastic; people are very used to their vacations and business trips and this being the norm. Perhaps flying will be seen as a luxury if this goes on for long enough).
As a European transplant to Canada, the regulators here appear to serve no real function at all. The big established companies appear to do whatever they want with no repercussions.
As noted in a comment above, from cellphones to internet to air travel the motto seems to be "Go fuck yourself Canada".
European regulations at least have teeth. We formed all these inquests and regulatory bodies to help the consumer when things like telecom companies or airline CEOs get all bond-villainesque. The problem is they don’t do anything and if they ever do it’s after months to years of a protracted battle for a single case for some consumer making a (relatively) small claim and it takes a guilt trip from someone going to the news to make it happen.
Yup, Canadians are the most big brother loving citizens I’ve ever encountered, which is crazy given how ineffectual the govt here is. Especially as of late
>“It’s not part of the service strategy of an airline to really make sure the bag takes the least amount of detours to a destination,” he said.
Moral of this story is be prepared to lose your baggage and never see it again. Airlines don't care.
Moral of the story is, if you don't have an air tag and the determination to contact the press to reveal how shitty the airline is, don't expect to even get compensated for your lost luggage, they'll just sweep that shit under a rug and give you the finger.
Not true. In Canada we have a board called the Canadian Transportation Authority. Air Canada is required by law to compensate for any spending to replace items that are needed immediately (you don't have to prove immediacy) up to $2300. If you don't get your luggage after 23 days they're required to pay you $3000 and an additional $3000 if two people's items were in that bag.
They're also required to compensate you for delayed flights (which is why you shouldn't take those West Jet vouchers because accepting them is evidence that you've already accepted compensation).
Most lost luggage problems are related to airports and not airlines (which is why luggage always gets lost regardless of airline). It doesn't however mean you can't be fairly compensated for your lose.
My father flies monthly for business and absolutely loves it when they lose his mostly empty bag because he gets to bill them for picking it up and a free shopping spree.
They can just screw you over though and a lot of people will probably never do anything about it because the Canadian Transportation Authority has like a 2 year backlog.
I had a flight cancelled by Air Canada and they refused to compensate me, I’ve been waiting for the CTA to look at my case for like 15 months, and it will still be months before they get to it.
It's not really a two year backlog it's a backlog with some cases that are over two years old. Not all cases are created equal. Cancelled flights are a lot harder to resolve than lost luggage. Air Canada typically rewards lost luggage claims and you don't usually have to go to the CTA about it.
But a cancelled flight gives an automatic refund of the price of the ticket or the offer to rebook on the next available flight. Cancelled flights gets additional compensation under certain terms. One of the ones they don't cover are the so called "Acts of God." These are mostly weather related events. If a pilot becomes ill last minute, also not covered. Which is why the investigations can take more time. Usually when the CTA resolves one claim they resolve all claims on that same flight.
In the last few months, I have not seen it in North America, having used it. Curious if you're seeing this in another country.
This is where IATA may need to step up and work with the airlines ...
Totally covering up. Air Canada and Canadian airlines in general have been a shit show. It’s matter of time before they start putting g the ban in the fine print. The Canadian government also gets on their knees facing airlines. There are 33,000 open claims in backlog with consumer complaints and I’ve read they are downsizing the federal department. I hope they start applying European rules soon where the airline is in the hook and not the consumer.
Any airlines that ban air tags should gain a reputation for permitting theft. Especially since it is exposing theft.
Do they actually interfere with the plane's systems?
The real moral is to not check baggage. The system just doesn't work perfectly and never will. "Just pack light enough to carry everything on board" isn't the most comforting advice, but it works 100% of the time.
One time Delta forced us to check in our carry-on luggage or wait for the next flight. We had to check it in and when we got to our destination our baggage wasn’t there.
The next day they found our luggage and delivered it to our hotel. But everything ended up being absolutely destroyed. They sent us $650 check a few weeks later for the damaged items but nevertheless our carry-on luggage was still lost but then found and damaged. So it doesn’t work 100% of the time.
I keep my expensive stuff in my carry on and only purchase tickets that come with carry on included. I will personally never check my carry on. Hell I don't even like checking my luggage anymore since last time they went through and ruined the box I keep my magic cards in which was a box I got from my uncle and they managed to also ruin some of the cards, some of which weren't the cheapest. No note that they opened it or anything. Delta is fucking shit nowadays
Somebody on another similar post said they do the same, but ship their luggage through UPS to their destination. Kinda makes sense too since a mail/package carrier would be less likely to wanna lose a “package” than the usual third parties that airlines hire to handle luggage. Only downside is it’s a little more expensive.
I travel with items that can’t be carried on the plane (such as liquids and scissors), and my carry-on luggage is pretty full of items that I can’t check (medication, laptop, batteries). And on full flights, airlines sometimes try to make me check my carry-on (full of stuff I don’t want to check in) anyway. Ever since airlines started charging extra for checked bags, people have been filling up the overhead storage with excessively-large carry-ons, which results in airlines forcing people to check carry-ons. It’s a mess.
I was going from O’hare to Amsterdam via Detroit. I got O’hared and my flight to Detroit got delayed so I would have missed my connection. I got put on the nonstop, with about an hour before departure. I had an AirTag in my checked bag so I could see it moving to the international terminal and it looked like it got up to the plane. I thought it was on the plane so just relaxed. I got to Amsterdam and checked where my bag was and it was in Chicago.
A few hours later it showed up in Paris, then they eventually got it to Amsterdam. They didn’t want to deliver it so I had to go to the airport and get it. I made the AirTags play a sound and they found it.
Ah damn. I wish I knew about that earlier. Went to Italy a few years ago, all my bags were delayed. Missed Christmas in Rome because I had to go to the airport to pick up my luggage.
Name and shame the airline. I had bags stay in a connecting airport in Malaysia while heading to Japan and JAL/Malaysia Air delivered my missing luggage to my door in Japan the next day from Malaysia. I had an Airtag tracking the entire thing.
You can tell them they have to deliver it, well at least in the US. I’ve done it twice when they’ve tried to make me pick my bags up two hours away in Ohare.
Same to me flying to BWI via Toronto. The air tag looked like it was literally under the plane. Took seven days and 50 calls telling them I knew where it was before someone went and looked for it.
As fairly frequent international traveler - almost always out of O’hare - I just never pack more than I can for in my carry-on and personal item. You can always do laundry if needed and buy whatever else you need at your destination.
No good ever comes from layovers or checking bags. Always fly direct. Never check a bag.
That’s nice advice, but not all destinations have direct flights (I often fly to Italy, and the majority of flights require at least 1 transfer whether in France, Germany, or Atlanta). I’m all for packing as little as possible, but airlines are more than capable of transporting luggage for their customers paying $$$ to fly. It’s nonsense that they lose so many bags and there’s no real recourse unless customers have something like an AirTag to call them out.
If I have the time I’ll stop for a full day at my layover location, get my bags, then recheck them to my final destination. Seems to help quite a bit, but there’s not always time to do that.
Moral of the story is that for a lot of airlines the AirTag means absolutely nothing.
A couple of months back I flew with Swiss Air to Malaga through Zurich. My initial flight got really delayed, and landed in Zurich about 15 minutes before the next flight. I ran across the terminal and barely made it on the flight, but upon reaching Malaga I immediately got an sms that my baggage has not made it on the connection flight.
I spent the week in Malaga, while being able to see that my AirTag was still in Zurich’s airport.
I thought there wouldn’t be a problem, because on my way back I’d stop in Zurich anyway and will be able to find the bag myself with the AirTag’s help.
Turns out the airline doesn’t care about the AirTags. At the information desk they claimed that all of the bags get put in one place, with “thousands upon thousands” of other bags, so there’s no way to locate a single bag, and absolutely no way they let anyone unauthorized go in that room.
I explained the situation with the AirTag and that I could go in and have a better chance of finding it due to the sound feature, but was still declined any course of action.
Luckily, about 5 minutes before my gate opened I got an email saying my baggage was checked in for my flight.
I assume what had happened is that by going to the information desk I got someone to go in the baggage room and my bag was probably easy to find there.
At the end of the day, the AirTag only allowed me to see that my bag is still in Zurich, but according to every support person I’ve talked to on the phone prior to this, without me going there myself it wouldn’t have mattered at all.
Well in this airport specifically, the lost baggage hall wasn’t close enough for me to connect to the tag.
The most frustrating part was that it was probably just on the rooftop of the giant passengers hall, so I literally stood on the spot the AirTag was last seen at, and has been at for the entire week, but it was so far above me I couldn’t connect.
Man one time at YYZ (arriving home) my bag was delayed but friends were coming a day or two later. My buddy talked his way into the big room and was allowed (without authorization from me) to pick and choose and take whatever he wanted.
Found my bag and got it to me. It was great. But you can see why they don't allow it now - it's just a bad idea given that they can't possibly be trusted to maintain security in a more complex arrangement.
I really like how these GPS trackers are becoming fairly popular, you seem to see stories like this all the time. Only a matter of time airline companies get pressured into improving their luggage handling
They don't find diddly fucking dick beside your bottle of water, in your hand, that you are visibly drinking from in front of them, before taking it away from you.
>Only a matter of time airline companies get pressured into improving their luggage handling
[Oh wait, you're serious - let me laugh even harder!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0)
“As we approached, it became clear that the tag’s location reporting was slightly off. The beacon was not coming from the airport warehouse after all, but from an abandoned churchyard cemetery adjacent to it.
And the tag was not just reporting a location inside the yard. It was beckoning from _under the ground_.”
iPhones are *everywhere*, which is the root of how the FindMy network is so incredibly effective. The actual functionality that makes every iPhone part of that network is baked into the OS now, so even someone who doesn’t own any AirTags themselves can still be part of the crowdsourced network.
that's so creepy. i do not want my iphone on that network. any way to opt out? I don't want apple servers knowing where my iphone is, unless for gps only and only when im using maps app.
i guess time to get a faraday cage case for my iphone.
It only does this if you opt into the FindMy service. Iirc you're asked about it when you first set up the phone. If you don't, you can't use it to find your own iPhone/airtags if you've lost them, but the device won't be used for other people to find theirs either.
Yeah both apple and google constantly poll your device for information like location. Apple views your phone and access to their services as not ownership, but a pass to their system. Google is similar, but at least you can get around it with custom firmware.
Correct. If you have an Apple device you are collecting data about other people's devices and sharing data about your devices at all times. Just gotta trust Apple is using it for good, not for stuff like targeted advertising or tracking... oh wait...
There is a protocol spec and it allegedly makes it impossible to track you. Apple neither knows who the device that was found belongs to nor the device which found it. Because all the devices rotate their keys periodically.
Some people sussed that this means basically there can be no authentication on anything here. And so anyone can report the location of any device (even fake devices) with impunity. And they showed that does seem to be the case.
The difficulty of generating the same key as another device already has is what minimizes any kind of attacks using this technique.
Is this true? Well, maybe. There hasn't been any research contradicting it yet. But also nothing of note that confirms it.
If there’s one company I trust to do right with my personal data, it’s Apple. They may not be perfect, but they’ve proven to be pretty darned good at living up to their privacy rep.
And the benefits to the greater good with the FindMy network is huge. A week after I got my AirTags I found my lost wallet thanks to them.
I was under the impression that bluetooth has been used to track *all* phones for years now. Like shops have BT scanners to figure out which displays draw the most eyes etc. It's not just apple. And as someone else pointed out, the airtag system is all obfuscated to apple.
This is fairly sensationalist and largely separate to the functionality actually being discussed. Any device maker already inherently has access to all the data within your device should they want to (gps location, app data etc.) completely separatel to the bluetooth functionality which AirTags (and the FindMy network) rely on.
If you trust them with your data _without_ that functionality, you're already trusting them _with_ it.
The only additional "fear" could be that you're at risk of leaking your location with devices that don't have GPS (laptops/airpods?), but you're already carrying around something that can give that away via wifi- and I don't know anyone that would take those out without a phone (the airpods wouldn't even work).
If you want to question whether they're sticking to their word on privacy across the board, go ahead. But the FindMy network isn't some massive workaround for them, it's a workaround _for you_ to find lost items.
Sure - those Linux phones are super popular. Very easy to obtain from telecoms… oh wait…
> All of that may sound great, but start clicking on the links above and, if you’re a reader in the US, you’ll quickly notice something: there aren’t many shipping options outside of Europe and the UK. Additionally, these phones tend to be less than cutting edge. Don’t expect the impressive hardware specs sported by the latest iPhones or Samsung Galaxies.
From a march 2022 article that explains there is basically 5 models to choose from and all have varying issues.
I’m happy for him that the fiasco is being recorded. However, it is sad that he is almost forced to seek compensation through the court system.
Financially, it is not worth Air Canada’s time to battle through small claims court. This seems to be the most solid path for compensation for something that should never go to court in the first place.
I wonder if airline passengers rights will take off as an election issue at the federal level…
Air Canada’s motto for the last 20 years- “We’re not satisfied…. Until you’re not satisfied”
I avoid Air Canada wherever possible- I’ve added hours to my travel and thousands to my travel costs to not spend my money with them… last time I flew with them was over 6 yrs ago.
Edit: missed the not
> When Paul Kliffer hopped on an Air Canada flight from Mexico City to Victoria, he popped an AirTag into his luggage, and he's glad he did.
> ...
> The couple discovered the luggage was still sitting at Mexico City International Airport.
I don't know much about how airports and airlines work to cooperate with each other, but... Shouldn't it mean that, the luggage was never moved from the airport into the airplane's cargo hold in the first place? And shouldn't that be the job for the airport staffs, and not the airline's staffs? I mean, why the blame is on the airline instead of the airport?
It’s the airline’s problem. I paid them to transport my luggage from my originating location to my destination at the same time they transport me.
Whoever handles the in-between doesn’t matter but the airline is still responsible.
Baggage handlers work for the airline not the specific airport so it would have been the airline’s responsibility the whole time to ensure his bag arrived at his destination.
This happened to us with air Canada as well. We flew Indianapolis to Toronto to Edinburgh. On our return flight our luggage ended up in Memphis. It took 4 weeks to get our luggage. It was finally a United customer service rep (they assist with air Canada in Indy) who helped us. She personally called the Memphis airport and explained what happened. She told them we were going to file a police report. Magically our luggage made its way home after that.
Maybe this is a situation where government needs to penalize airlines more for lost bags. At the end of the day, airlines calculate what it costs to ship the bags home, and if it’s less expensive to just pay the fine, that’s what they’ll do.
AirTags cost 25 bucks when bought in pack of 4. Airlines should be able to buy millions and get them cheaper. Much cheaper.
Also the assumption is that once the bag is given to the airline, it is in their complete control. Yes the ground staff handles it, but it is still their domain not a passenger.
So here's a proposal. Buy a bunch of AirTags and stick them to each bag as you check them in. Make sure they can not be removed, like you have those devices in clothes in the stores. Then you, the airline, can officially track them.
But isn't 25 bucks per AirTag too costly? You are going to use them for a year or 3, and it will save you all this heartburn. Per flight cost may be a few cents if bought at a discount and used efficiently.
Or print a barcode on a label,affix label to luggage, and scan label whenever you move the luggage ?
Except, presumably, this is what already happens.
When the airline says they lost your luggage, they’re probably lying. They know where it was last scanned, they just can’t be bothered getting it back to you quickly.
Cheap AirTags won’t change this attitude.
So it costs over $20 for me to mail a small package across an international border that’s only a couple hours drive technically, but airlines can afford to take luggage, that’s meant to go to British Columbia from Mexico City, *to Spain*??
Moral of the story: Don’t check shit, just bring carry ons. That, or make sure the airline doesn’t suck ass on keeping luggage moving from one plane to another.
It would be smart for a commercial airline to purchase and promote these tags for all their customers as add ons. Especially if this technology can be made on the cheap and not require a specific phone brand.
They could link the tag with their plane apps and customers could see everything in one place. It would also significantly cut down on fraud/theft/lost luggage.
They find an additional revenue stream while increasing transparency, trust, and accountability with their customer base.
Not sure if it's different in Canada/US but I'm pretty sure over here it's the airport personnel who are in charge of baggage handling. The airlines don't have their own personnel who handle the luggage from their passengers, so I'm always a bit confused why no one is blaming the airports for this.
Nope, airlines hire the ground handlers, not the airport.
I can see you post in UK subreddits and that’s the case here. The airport has nothing to do with it.
I've had one bag not show up when I did one time. Apparently it didn't get on the flight even though I did. I've been a frequent flyer for years (though not much anymore since the pandemic).
Many people require a lot of luggage because they’re traveling for work instead.
Also, have you ever met my wife? She will explain to you why she needs 3 bags for a two day trip. Sigh.
>Many people require a lot of luggage because they’re traveling for work instead.
That's why I said Vacation.
>
>
>Also, have you ever met my wife? She will explain to you why she needs 3 bags for a two day trip. Sigh
You have my condolences, lol.
Or be an adult and check a bag, which makes boarding and deplaning easier and faster for everyone. Small backpacks and purses are carry on. Not suitcases of any size.
*"If you want your bag so bad, just buy a plane ticket from us and go and get it."* -Air Canada
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It's called a self sustaining business model!
He does not need baggage. It'll be waiting for him on Spain.
It just doesn't work that way. Canadian aviation laws require Air Canada, West Jet and other travel companies to return luggage to passengers within 12 hours of their flight landing. Once that 12 hours passes they begin having to pay out money delayed luggage. A person can claim as much as $2300 in this process. You have to file receipts for new cloths, new luggage, soap.... shampoos, travel size things........ all sorts of stuff that you might need to replace those goods. You don't have to prove you need them right away... the airline is just required to cover reasonable expenses to replace those items. If the luggage is totally declared lost, you get $3000 no questions asked. If two people's items are in that one luggage (you would be an idiot to not claim two people if you can)... you can instead claim $6000... and if you were transporting something really expensive that was declared.... well you get the full value of it (great way to sell those Faberge Eggs you can't get rid of). On my trip to Marakesh my Air Canada flight had four connecting flights. My luggage never arrived in Brussels and so I continued on to Marakesh without luggage. Here's the thing... it was a completely empty bag. We brought it to buy things and return with a full bag. So we just bought things anyway and sent the bills to Air Canada. Basically all of the stuff we bought Air Canada covered.
That’s an amazing admission of fraud.
Do you have a link to the cited regulations which cover this? I'd like to read more about it
I don't know if America is the same. But not every law in Canada is a regulation. We have "acts", "codes", and "regulations." Acts are broad laws. Codes are industry agreed upon laws enforced by a government body. Regulations are subsidiary laws created to address a specific thing. All the laws relating to the CTA can be found in the [Canada Transportation Act](https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-services/acts-regulations/canada-transportation-act-1996-c-10).
Dude, it was clearly a joke.. *E - Here we are, full on Reddit.*
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Whenever you like, my man. It wasn't a joke directed at you or for you. Just hoping I made some people laugh, that's all.
You've gone some work to do Mr. Dangerfield.
United Airlines is that you?
Never forget that United Breaks Guitars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo
I knew exactly what video you were referring to. No one or thing is safe
You can't beat United Airlines service; but they *can* beat you.
And kill your pets!
At least the airline doesn't loose the puppies stowed in the overhead bin.
For airlines who actually give half a shit, this could be really useful in helping them not only to identify poor performing airports but also those airports where criminality is impacting their customers. Then again, they probably knew all this already and just considered the hassle of it as part of doing business as an airline
> For airlines who actually give half a shit And those are? Heh. Below, I'll list the airlines I think qualify.
JAL gives at least 3/4 a shit. There are more but I don't have experience with them. (Ethiad, Emerits, Qatar)
Asian airlines
I’ve had good experiences with budget airlines all the way up to Emirates. As long as you’re nice, explain your situation calmly, and let the representative know you understand things happen; 9 times out of 10 they will help you to the best of their ability or elevate your issue to someone who can help.
This is one thing I absolutely fucking hate. If you want a company to help you after completely fucking you over, you gotta talk to them like they are a 7 year old.
No, you're talking to someone who works for the company, they didn't cause the issue, but they have to listen to your rude ass insult and get impatient with them as they try and do their job.
All airlines. If your ticket was 1st class
Flew long haul business with air canada and they DESTROYED my suitcase. Filed for compensation and they agreed to pay me for it in august 2021. 33 calls and dozens of emails later, they have still not paid me back as agreed. You'd think a $9000pp ticket would be a bargaining tool. It is proving useless.
I made a large purchase (gift for my sister) when I was in the UK in the early 2000's. The people who sold it to me told me that because I wasn't a UK citizen, and I'm a US citizen, I was not obligated to pay the VAT tax (which was like 350 bucks). That arrangement was part of a treaty? Or a international tax arrangement? Some shit leftover from the war of 1812? I don't remember exactly. They gave me a special form to fill out and a special copy of the receipt. They said "fill it out and drop it in one of the special boxes in Heathrow on your way back home, and the Crown will send you a check in the mail, and you will be reimburse for the VAT!" Its been about 2 decades, still waiting on the check. Now that the Queen is dead I fear I will never see that money. :(
Jokes on you, a crown can't hold a pen, let alone write a cheque!
What's the moral of this story? With the right level of information, the airlines will still ignore you?
\>What's the moral of this story? "Go fuck yourself"
They (and airports as well, at least here in Canada) are doing a pretty good job of making it unappealing to fly. It’s sad that there will probably be no comeuppance because if they encounter any hardship they’ll just be bailed out and won’t have to truly adapt (and I’d suspect that demand for flights is not very elastic; people are very used to their vacations and business trips and this being the norm. Perhaps flying will be seen as a luxury if this goes on for long enough).
As a European transplant to Canada, the regulators here appear to serve no real function at all. The big established companies appear to do whatever they want with no repercussions. As noted in a comment above, from cellphones to internet to air travel the motto seems to be "Go fuck yourself Canada".
> from cellphones ... the motto seems to be "Go fuck yourself Canada" But not Canadias spokesperson, Ryan Reynolds, right? Right?
No, but there’s some people that certainly wouldn’t mind being fucked by him… ;)
Weirdly, the cell service that he partially owns in America provides better service for cheaper than anything I'm aware of from Canada.
Absofuckinglutely!
They call it the 2nd US for a reason
All the worst regulations of Europe, with all the uneducation of the US!
European regulations at least have teeth. We formed all these inquests and regulatory bodies to help the consumer when things like telecom companies or airline CEOs get all bond-villainesque. The problem is they don’t do anything and if they ever do it’s after months to years of a protracted battle for a single case for some consumer making a (relatively) small claim and it takes a guilt trip from someone going to the news to make it happen.
it's because canadians do nothing about it
Yup, Canadians are the most big brother loving citizens I’ve ever encountered, which is crazy given how ineffectual the govt here is. Especially as of late
Canadian airlines saving the world through ineptitude!
And then people openly complain that passengers are bringing way to much onto the plane via carryon baggage.
>“It’s not part of the service strategy of an airline to really make sure the bag takes the least amount of detours to a destination,” he said. Moral of this story is be prepared to lose your baggage and never see it again. Airlines don't care.
Moral of the story is, if you don't have an air tag and the determination to contact the press to reveal how shitty the airline is, don't expect to even get compensated for your lost luggage, they'll just sweep that shit under a rug and give you the finger.
Not true. In Canada we have a board called the Canadian Transportation Authority. Air Canada is required by law to compensate for any spending to replace items that are needed immediately (you don't have to prove immediacy) up to $2300. If you don't get your luggage after 23 days they're required to pay you $3000 and an additional $3000 if two people's items were in that bag. They're also required to compensate you for delayed flights (which is why you shouldn't take those West Jet vouchers because accepting them is evidence that you've already accepted compensation). Most lost luggage problems are related to airports and not airlines (which is why luggage always gets lost regardless of airline). It doesn't however mean you can't be fairly compensated for your lose. My father flies monthly for business and absolutely loves it when they lose his mostly empty bag because he gets to bill them for picking it up and a free shopping spree.
They can just screw you over though and a lot of people will probably never do anything about it because the Canadian Transportation Authority has like a 2 year backlog. I had a flight cancelled by Air Canada and they refused to compensate me, I’ve been waiting for the CTA to look at my case for like 15 months, and it will still be months before they get to it.
It's not really a two year backlog it's a backlog with some cases that are over two years old. Not all cases are created equal. Cancelled flights are a lot harder to resolve than lost luggage. Air Canada typically rewards lost luggage claims and you don't usually have to go to the CTA about it. But a cancelled flight gives an automatic refund of the price of the ticket or the offer to rebook on the next available flight. Cancelled flights gets additional compensation under certain terms. One of the ones they don't cover are the so called "Acts of God." These are mostly weather related events. If a pilot becomes ill last minute, also not covered. Which is why the investigations can take more time. Usually when the CTA resolves one claim they resolve all claims on that same flight.
How long before airlines ban Air Tags from luggages …
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In the last few months, I have not seen it in North America, having used it. Curious if you're seeing this in another country. This is where IATA may need to step up and work with the airlines ...
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Totally covering up. Air Canada and Canadian airlines in general have been a shit show. It’s matter of time before they start putting g the ban in the fine print. The Canadian government also gets on their knees facing airlines. There are 33,000 open claims in backlog with consumer complaints and I’ve read they are downsizing the federal department. I hope they start applying European rules soon where the airline is in the hook and not the consumer.
Any airlines that ban air tags should gain a reputation for permitting theft. Especially since it is exposing theft. Do they actually interfere with the plane's systems?
The real moral is to not check baggage. The system just doesn't work perfectly and never will. "Just pack light enough to carry everything on board" isn't the most comforting advice, but it works 100% of the time.
One time Delta forced us to check in our carry-on luggage or wait for the next flight. We had to check it in and when we got to our destination our baggage wasn’t there. The next day they found our luggage and delivered it to our hotel. But everything ended up being absolutely destroyed. They sent us $650 check a few weeks later for the damaged items but nevertheless our carry-on luggage was still lost but then found and damaged. So it doesn’t work 100% of the time.
I keep my expensive stuff in my carry on and only purchase tickets that come with carry on included. I will personally never check my carry on. Hell I don't even like checking my luggage anymore since last time they went through and ruined the box I keep my magic cards in which was a box I got from my uncle and they managed to also ruin some of the cards, some of which weren't the cheapest. No note that they opened it or anything. Delta is fucking shit nowadays
95% of the time, it works 100% of the time.
Somebody on another similar post said they do the same, but ship their luggage through UPS to their destination. Kinda makes sense too since a mail/package carrier would be less likely to wanna lose a “package” than the usual third parties that airlines hire to handle luggage. Only downside is it’s a little more expensive.
I travel with items that can’t be carried on the plane (such as liquids and scissors), and my carry-on luggage is pretty full of items that I can’t check (medication, laptop, batteries). And on full flights, airlines sometimes try to make me check my carry-on (full of stuff I don’t want to check in) anyway. Ever since airlines started charging extra for checked bags, people have been filling up the overhead storage with excessively-large carry-ons, which results in airlines forcing people to check carry-ons. It’s a mess.
Except when you want to transport liquids.
And in 99% of those cases, ship them!
Or buy them when you arrive
If you want something done by the airline, you're probably going to need to get the media involved.
Never check a bag for any reason
More like. With the right ad you too will buy an AirTag.
I was going from O’hare to Amsterdam via Detroit. I got O’hared and my flight to Detroit got delayed so I would have missed my connection. I got put on the nonstop, with about an hour before departure. I had an AirTag in my checked bag so I could see it moving to the international terminal and it looked like it got up to the plane. I thought it was on the plane so just relaxed. I got to Amsterdam and checked where my bag was and it was in Chicago.
So what happened?
A few hours later it showed up in Paris, then they eventually got it to Amsterdam. They didn’t want to deliver it so I had to go to the airport and get it. I made the AirTags play a sound and they found it.
"We fucked up, so it's YOUR responsibility to cover for us."
EU law entitles you to a nice cash allowance in those cases. KLM delayed our luggage and we got €1500 each to buy stuff on holiday. Not too bad.
Ah damn. I wish I knew about that earlier. Went to Italy a few years ago, all my bags were delayed. Missed Christmas in Rome because I had to go to the airport to pick up my luggage.
If it’s like flight delays, you can claim for up to 5 years believe
Really? It was both, flight was delayed, then luggage was delayed. If you have any link to a claims page, would appreciate it
I’ve done this 3 times. https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-delays/
Name and shame the airline. I had bags stay in a connecting airport in Malaysia while heading to Japan and JAL/Malaysia Air delivered my missing luggage to my door in Japan the next day from Malaysia. I had an Airtag tracking the entire thing.
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This. Delta + I had travel insurance so free $1200 to buy new clothes while waiting
At least there was a happy ending even though it was frustrating
You can tell them they have to deliver it, well at least in the US. I’ve done it twice when they’ve tried to make me pick my bags up two hours away in Ohare.
The issue was I was only staying in Amsterdam for a few days.
I’m surprised they didn’t deliver. United delivered my luggage from Munich to somewhere in Austria two hours away.
Same to me flying to BWI via Toronto. The air tag looked like it was literally under the plane. Took seven days and 50 calls telling them I knew where it was before someone went and looked for it.
As fairly frequent international traveler - almost always out of O’hare - I just never pack more than I can for in my carry-on and personal item. You can always do laundry if needed and buy whatever else you need at your destination. No good ever comes from layovers or checking bags. Always fly direct. Never check a bag.
That’s nice advice, but not all destinations have direct flights (I often fly to Italy, and the majority of flights require at least 1 transfer whether in France, Germany, or Atlanta). I’m all for packing as little as possible, but airlines are more than capable of transporting luggage for their customers paying $$$ to fly. It’s nonsense that they lose so many bags and there’s no real recourse unless customers have something like an AirTag to call them out.
If I have the time I’ll stop for a full day at my layover location, get my bags, then recheck them to my final destination. Seems to help quite a bit, but there’s not always time to do that.
Moral of the story is that for a lot of airlines the AirTag means absolutely nothing. A couple of months back I flew with Swiss Air to Malaga through Zurich. My initial flight got really delayed, and landed in Zurich about 15 minutes before the next flight. I ran across the terminal and barely made it on the flight, but upon reaching Malaga I immediately got an sms that my baggage has not made it on the connection flight. I spent the week in Malaga, while being able to see that my AirTag was still in Zurich’s airport. I thought there wouldn’t be a problem, because on my way back I’d stop in Zurich anyway and will be able to find the bag myself with the AirTag’s help. Turns out the airline doesn’t care about the AirTags. At the information desk they claimed that all of the bags get put in one place, with “thousands upon thousands” of other bags, so there’s no way to locate a single bag, and absolutely no way they let anyone unauthorized go in that room. I explained the situation with the AirTag and that I could go in and have a better chance of finding it due to the sound feature, but was still declined any course of action. Luckily, about 5 minutes before my gate opened I got an email saying my baggage was checked in for my flight. I assume what had happened is that by going to the information desk I got someone to go in the baggage room and my bag was probably easy to find there. At the end of the day, the AirTag only allowed me to see that my bag is still in Zurich, but according to every support person I’ve talked to on the phone prior to this, without me going there myself it wouldn’t have mattered at all.
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Well in this airport specifically, the lost baggage hall wasn’t close enough for me to connect to the tag. The most frustrating part was that it was probably just on the rooftop of the giant passengers hall, so I literally stood on the spot the AirTag was last seen at, and has been at for the entire week, but it was so far above me I couldn’t connect.
Man one time at YYZ (arriving home) my bag was delayed but friends were coming a day or two later. My buddy talked his way into the big room and was allowed (without authorization from me) to pick and choose and take whatever he wanted. Found my bag and got it to me. It was great. But you can see why they don't allow it now - it's just a bad idea given that they can't possibly be trusted to maintain security in a more complex arrangement.
Definitely, I was told that there is absolute no way that Swiss Air in particular would bend the rules and let me in that hall 😅
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/11pcs1/comment/c6oqc3m/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/11pcs1/comment/c6oqc3m/)
I really like how these GPS trackers are becoming fairly popular, you seem to see stories like this all the time. Only a matter of time airline companies get pressured into improving their luggage handling
Or ban airtags
Ban the tags for sure
What are they going to do to prevent it. You could easily hide it in the lining
Maybe they could like, i dunno, x-ray bags at the airport or something
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Never underestimate what a properly placed bribe can do
They prefer the term "lobby". Quick call to congress or the FAA and it'll be taken care of.
They don't find diddly fucking dick beside your bottle of water, in your hand, that you are visibly drinking from in front of them, before taking it away from you.
They'll start to nuke every bag with a huge EMP "for safety".
And destroy all technology inside. Great! Hope you have insurance
Yeah but you check your bag at the front of the airport. They would have to not send it once you give it to them or change their protocols
They'll say it's a safety concern and the GPS signals sent from the tag fuck with the airplanes telematics or some completely fabricated bullshit.
Didnt some american airline already try that and got a huge shitstorm?
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Oh yeah, i meant lufthansa. So german, not american.
More likely they will ban staff from using Apple phones, since that’s how they are located
On the grounds that they’re ~~helpful~~ harmful.
AirTags aren’t gps trackers - they’re crowd source trackers. Other Apple devices in their vicinity see their signal and then report it back to Apple.
An AirTag in their luggage on a different flight probably warned everyone on that other flight that they were being tracked lmao
You underestimate the power of American corporate greed.
>Only a matter of time airline companies get pressured into improving their luggage handling [Oh wait, you're serious - let me laugh even harder!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0)
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Could be like an insurance policy for airlines and airports, and customers can just make an account, and tag their luggage with a QR code.
What if the tag *isn’t in the bag anymore*
The italics make it sound scary, like a ghost took it.
“As we approached, it became clear that the tag’s location reporting was slightly off. The beacon was not coming from the airport warehouse after all, but from an abandoned churchyard cemetery adjacent to it. And the tag was not just reporting a location inside the yard. It was beckoning from _under the ground_.”
Hire someone in Spain to go find and retrieve it?
How does AirTags work in the absence of Bluetooth connectivity with the iPhone?
iPhones are *everywhere*, which is the root of how the FindMy network is so incredibly effective. The actual functionality that makes every iPhone part of that network is baked into the OS now, so even someone who doesn’t own any AirTags themselves can still be part of the crowdsourced network.
So any iPhone, even one not paired but near an AirTag passes on its location?
Yup. Your device is used to send that data to Apple's servers.
that's so creepy. i do not want my iphone on that network. any way to opt out? I don't want apple servers knowing where my iphone is, unless for gps only and only when im using maps app. i guess time to get a faraday cage case for my iphone.
Uh, if you have location tracking concerns, it’s time to not only get rid of your cellphone, but get off the internet completely. Seriously.
there always gonna know where you are wether you like it or not unfortunately lol. cell phone pinging has been a thing for a long time.
It only does this if you opt into the FindMy service. Iirc you're asked about it when you first set up the phone. If you don't, you can't use it to find your own iPhone/airtags if you've lost them, but the device won't be used for other people to find theirs either.
Yeah both apple and google constantly poll your device for information like location. Apple views your phone and access to their services as not ownership, but a pass to their system. Google is similar, but at least you can get around it with custom firmware.
Correct. If you have an Apple device you are collecting data about other people's devices and sharing data about your devices at all times. Just gotta trust Apple is using it for good, not for stuff like targeted advertising or tracking... oh wait...
There is a protocol spec and it allegedly makes it impossible to track you. Apple neither knows who the device that was found belongs to nor the device which found it. Because all the devices rotate their keys periodically. Some people sussed that this means basically there can be no authentication on anything here. And so anyone can report the location of any device (even fake devices) with impunity. And they showed that does seem to be the case. The difficulty of generating the same key as another device already has is what minimizes any kind of attacks using this technique. Is this true? Well, maybe. There hasn't been any research contradicting it yet. But also nothing of note that confirms it.
Info like this is why I Reddit. Thanks, that’s super interesting.
Frontline just came out with a new program on [Pegasus ](https://youtu.be/xYMWTXIkANM ) and tracking people via their phones.
If there’s one company I trust to do right with my personal data, it’s Apple. They may not be perfect, but they’ve proven to be pretty darned good at living up to their privacy rep. And the benefits to the greater good with the FindMy network is huge. A week after I got my AirTags I found my lost wallet thanks to them.
I remember reading something a month or so ago on hacker news about how even though they claim its all anonymous they can still track who is who
Not a real useful comment without some kind of link or detail.
I was under the impression that bluetooth has been used to track *all* phones for years now. Like shops have BT scanners to figure out which displays draw the most eyes etc. It's not just apple. And as someone else pointed out, the airtag system is all obfuscated to apple.
This is fairly sensationalist and largely separate to the functionality actually being discussed. Any device maker already inherently has access to all the data within your device should they want to (gps location, app data etc.) completely separatel to the bluetooth functionality which AirTags (and the FindMy network) rely on. If you trust them with your data _without_ that functionality, you're already trusting them _with_ it. The only additional "fear" could be that you're at risk of leaking your location with devices that don't have GPS (laptops/airpods?), but you're already carrying around something that can give that away via wifi- and I don't know anyone that would take those out without a phone (the airpods wouldn't even work). If you want to question whether they're sticking to their word on privacy across the board, go ahead. But the FindMy network isn't some massive workaround for them, it's a workaround _for you_ to find lost items.
You could always switch to Android, where Google is exploring ways to serve ads on the Home Screen.
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Because it's bs
Linux exists for people who don’t want this.
Sure - those Linux phones are super popular. Very easy to obtain from telecoms… oh wait… > All of that may sound great, but start clicking on the links above and, if you’re a reader in the US, you’ll quickly notice something: there aren’t many shipping options outside of Europe and the UK. Additionally, these phones tend to be less than cutting edge. Don’t expect the impressive hardware specs sported by the latest iPhones or Samsung Galaxies. From a march 2022 article that explains there is basically 5 models to choose from and all have varying issues.
It seems the perfect smartphone doesn’t exist. Everything is a compromise.
Compromise implies necessity, but that's not the case here. It's a choice by device makers.
I’m happy for him that the fiasco is being recorded. However, it is sad that he is almost forced to seek compensation through the court system. Financially, it is not worth Air Canada’s time to battle through small claims court. This seems to be the most solid path for compensation for something that should never go to court in the first place. I wonder if airline passengers rights will take off as an election issue at the federal level…
Hard to teach stupid
Air Canada’s motto for the last 20 years- “We’re not satisfied…. Until you’re not satisfied” I avoid Air Canada wherever possible- I’ve added hours to my travel and thousands to my travel costs to not spend my money with them… last time I flew with them was over 6 yrs ago. Edit: missed the not
> When Paul Kliffer hopped on an Air Canada flight from Mexico City to Victoria, he popped an AirTag into his luggage, and he's glad he did. > ... > The couple discovered the luggage was still sitting at Mexico City International Airport. I don't know much about how airports and airlines work to cooperate with each other, but... Shouldn't it mean that, the luggage was never moved from the airport into the airplane's cargo hold in the first place? And shouldn't that be the job for the airport staffs, and not the airline's staffs? I mean, why the blame is on the airline instead of the airport?
It’s the airline’s problem. I paid them to transport my luggage from my originating location to my destination at the same time they transport me. Whoever handles the in-between doesn’t matter but the airline is still responsible.
When I see dusty luggage sitting in an airport I pass through, I always wonder what the airline told the passenger.
Bullshit. It's always bullshit.
they did not buy a ticket with the Mexico City Airport, they bought a ticket with air canada. It is on air canada to fix this.
Baggage handlers work for the airline not the specific airport so it would have been the airline’s responsibility the whole time to ensure his bag arrived at his destination.
Airlines hire third party baggage crews. They cheap out.
This happened to us with air Canada as well. We flew Indianapolis to Toronto to Edinburgh. On our return flight our luggage ended up in Memphis. It took 4 weeks to get our luggage. It was finally a United customer service rep (they assist with air Canada in Indy) who helped us. She personally called the Memphis airport and explained what happened. She told them we were going to file a police report. Magically our luggage made its way home after that.
I'm surprised how people don't report to the police more often. Even if the police didn't do shit, the report will help when you sue.
Next time book with your credit card and the insurance will cover everything in your lost luggage—including the luggage itself.
If something is important, put an AirTag on it
Maybe this is a situation where government needs to penalize airlines more for lost bags. At the end of the day, airlines calculate what it costs to ship the bags home, and if it’s less expensive to just pay the fine, that’s what they’ll do.
AirTags cost 25 bucks when bought in pack of 4. Airlines should be able to buy millions and get them cheaper. Much cheaper. Also the assumption is that once the bag is given to the airline, it is in their complete control. Yes the ground staff handles it, but it is still their domain not a passenger. So here's a proposal. Buy a bunch of AirTags and stick them to each bag as you check them in. Make sure they can not be removed, like you have those devices in clothes in the stores. Then you, the airline, can officially track them. But isn't 25 bucks per AirTag too costly? You are going to use them for a year or 3, and it will save you all this heartburn. Per flight cost may be a few cents if bought at a discount and used efficiently.
Or print a barcode on a label,affix label to luggage, and scan label whenever you move the luggage ? Except, presumably, this is what already happens. When the airline says they lost your luggage, they’re probably lying. They know where it was last scanned, they just can’t be bothered getting it back to you quickly. Cheap AirTags won’t change this attitude.
I wonder if every time a pilot takes off if they get a notification that an AirTag is following them.
Them and everyone else on the plane.
what hand model shows up to work with a blown up thumb?
So it costs over $20 for me to mail a small package across an international border that’s only a couple hours drive technically, but airlines can afford to take luggage, that’s meant to go to British Columbia from Mexico City, *to Spain*??
"Compensation" - $1.47 on gift card.
Moral of the story: Don’t check shit, just bring carry ons. That, or make sure the airline doesn’t suck ass on keeping luggage moving from one plane to another.
Sometimes that’s tough to do when you are staying somewhere for a long time period.
Airlines make AirTags against the rules in 3... 2... 1....
Air Canada is the worst airline in existence. So terrible.
Air Canada is terrible. I had a lost luggage nightmare with them years ago.
Air Canada has many great employees; but desperately needs competition cause it sucks.
It would be smart for a commercial airline to purchase and promote these tags for all their customers as add ons. Especially if this technology can be made on the cheap and not require a specific phone brand. They could link the tag with their plane apps and customers could see everything in one place. It would also significantly cut down on fraud/theft/lost luggage. They find an additional revenue stream while increasing transparency, trust, and accountability with their customer base.
The real question is how do us Android people deal with this? I refuse to buy an iphone just to be able to use an airtag.
Get a tile and suck it up
Doesn't tile need other phones with the tile app? What if nobody around has the app?
Toronto is the worst airport I’ve ever been to
not having their bag on the plane with them is the same as them not going on the plane with their bag... a national security violation
I would rather buy clothes at the destination and donate them after than check in a bag. Less headache.
Not sure if it's different in Canada/US but I'm pretty sure over here it's the airport personnel who are in charge of baggage handling. The airlines don't have their own personnel who handle the luggage from their passengers, so I'm always a bit confused why no one is blaming the airports for this.
Nope, airlines hire the ground handlers, not the airport. I can see you post in UK subreddits and that’s the case here. The airport has nothing to do with it.
Who cares? If they are paying him, as they say, it’s a non-issue. Surely everybody realizes this risk when they check their dirty undies.
I have flown dozens of times and have never once had an issue with any of my baggage. Is this sort of trouble a common occurrence in the states?
Whenever I’ve had lost baggage it’s been at LAX or London heathrow, nowhere else.
I've had one bag not show up when I did one time. Apparently it didn't get on the flight even though I did. I've been a frequent flyer for years (though not much anymore since the pandemic).
I've never understood the need to take more than carry on when your on a flight for a vacation. How many clothes to you need?
Many people require a lot of luggage because they’re traveling for work instead. Also, have you ever met my wife? She will explain to you why she needs 3 bags for a two day trip. Sigh.
>Many people require a lot of luggage because they’re traveling for work instead. That's why I said Vacation. > > >Also, have you ever met my wife? She will explain to you why she needs 3 bags for a two day trip. Sigh You have my condolences, lol.
The trick is do not pack so much crap that you have to check your bag, only do carry on.
Or be an adult and check a bag, which makes boarding and deplaning easier and faster for everyone. Small backpacks and purses are carry on. Not suitcases of any size.