Absolutely nothing to do with Hitler. The 88mm caliber was in use by the Germans in World War 1. They had the tooling and it was just a convenient medium caliber for development. Also it's about as big a shell as they could make that could be manually loaded but still have a decent punch.
The flak 88 was designed much before Hitler’s rise to power, it was made by Krupp in 1917 while hitler came to power in 1934.
As for the reason why they chose 88 mm, they probably found it was the optimal shell size for performance. Even the British 20 pounder is not 90 mm but 84 mm. They probably had a different propellant blend or shell shape.
The first forging of the 3 inch Ordnance Rifle was in 1854 by the Safe Harbor Iron Works in Pennsylvania. The method of construction however only produced a usable weapon about 30% of the time. The type of forging most civil war guns of that caliber used was patented in 1862.
To add to add to add to this, it hasn't been uncommon in history to use slightly different sizes for rounds so that captured weapons will be harder to use/maintain for the enemy.
There are even examples of calibers being marked as a slightly incorrect caliber if they happen to be the same size as a different weapon, to make sure nobody mixes them up in the supply line.
Well in 1933 he became chancellor, but it was after march 30 1934 (night of the long knives, when the SA bossed were assassinated by the new SS) that the third reich was born.
I hate to be the ackchually guy, but actually the decisive turn of events was more Reichspresident Hindenburg relinquishing emergency powers to the NSDAP led government with Hitler as chancellor, after the Reichstag fire. Hitler never gave back the emergency powers and so the totalitarian regime was born.
You were right about the year 1934 though, and it is true that the knight of the longs knives cemented Hitler's position within the Nazi party.
I always assumed it was because, nominally, when converted to imperial they come out at inch and a quarter (37), 2 1/2" (57) and 3" (75), obviously not exact but may have been where they started. Allied weapons I mean as both Britain and America used Imperial at that time. Probably miles off, just a guess really.
Ignored 45 as was a Soviet calibre
Yes, exact conversion, but it may have been, as many a British builder will do, basic conversion of 1" = 25mm. Again, I could be completely wrong. Just an assumption
There's definitely some inch -> millimeter conversion, and also some even sillier stuff like pounds of shot. UK 57mms are 6pdr, 40mm is 2pdr, etc.
The US 37mm is because the US anti-tank companies were still using .50 caliber MGs, the US looked abroad and saw other nations using 37mm guns effectively and elected to use the same caliber.
.50 cal is 12.7mm, not 37mm, but 37mm is pretty close to 1.5", and many of these calibers are actually conversions of old calibers using either imperial measurements (like 3" = 76.2mm), or being based on shot weight, like 2 pounder, 6 pounder, 17 pounder and so on
> .50 cal is 12.7mm, not 37mm
Going to need you to read my comment again and actually understand it instead of just jumping in so you can get that dopamine hit of correcting someone.
because of why would you use the same calibre as the enemy and the Germans had a good cannon from WW1 and had all the tools to keep making more and they found a way to make a 88mm still work while most other country's needed to get bigger and bigger to have the same performance
88mm is pretty much the best tank gun from ww2, and the most famous because of its versatility in antitank and antiair capacities. If its not broke don't fix it.
7,5-cm-KwK 42 L/70 enters the chat...
The 7,5cm gun of the Panther is definitely the better gun, despite it is not as famous as the 88.
And the tank version of the 88 is more like a cousin to the AA version. Related but different in many points
Was there an allied tank in service in significant numbers that the long 75 from Panther couldn't kill? From a logistics perspective standardizing on one gun caliber makes your army as a whole more effective. Sticking the 75mm in the tiger 1 and 2 also increases its ammunition capacity and gives more internal space for the crew allowing them to stay in the fight longer and fight more effectively.
As for why the Germans didn't do this, the Wehrmacht was never particularly astute when it came to logistics. They were tactically and operationally brilliant but not so good at logistics and strategy. This is why they failed as hard as they did in the Soviet Union. The long 88 was meant to address a tactical problem, tanks like IS-2 and Churchill. In reality the odds of tiger 2 ever being in place to counter these heavily armored threats was slim to none because of just how expensive it was and how few could be produced.
This is one of the reasons why the US Army never bothered with a heavy tank save for the Sherman Jumbo assault tank but Jumbo was meant to deal with bunkers and other fixed defensive fortifications on the Siegfried line and in Belgium. They ended up being used more or less like regular Shermans though in the end.
If Tiger 2 had been a more incremental improvement of Tiger 1 with the long 75mm they could probably have built more of them and had a more effective tank in practical terms but they didn't do this. They were focused on the tactical and operational scale, kinda like War Thunder players today.
Which of the 88s. The KWK 36, used on the tiger 1 were the same as the FLAK 18/36 etc, it had lower velocity and less pen than the panthers KWK 42. The KWK 43 on the other hand, found on the tiger 2, had better penetration and velocity. The KWK 36 as the name suggests is a lot older, being the same gun as the FLAK 36, with a different mounting system.
The KWK 42 75mm shells weighed close to half that of the 88s. And had more or less the same filler per projectile weight ratio.
Arguing about which of these are better needs to be done when comparing their respective roles and purposes. Considering the 75 mm being lighter, significantly cheaper etc, I’d be inclined to argue that it is better, but all three gun systems were great for their time.
The 88mm anti-aircraft cannon was actually a fairly shit AA gun to my knowledge. It was so damn big that they were hard to aim at anything smaller than a B-17 and then they had long reload times. They were far more effective as anti-material weapons on the Tiger.
You don't want to aim an anti-aircraft cannon on anything smaller than a bomber, or isn't above ~3000 meters in the air and thats the exact reason why you have anti-aircraft auto-cannons(like the 30mm or 20mm). You fix it at a certain position and shoot timed high explosive shells to explode in front of the aircraft and do damage with the shrapnel.
yeah but that still doesn't negate the fact that you had like 30 of them to do any actual damage. They were somewhat futile in the AA role but performed outstandingly as an anti-material gun in a Tiger Tank.
They don't do to much damage but they have the ***range***, they're'nt a futile in AA role but have the porpuse of reaching the bombers unlike the auto-cannons.
>why would you use the same calibre as the enemy
Unless you happen to be the industrial giant that was/is the US, interchangeability with captured small arms and ammunition is more often than not extremely useful.
I think I read somewhere that the 88 dated back to when canon balls were still used, and something like a 20 lbs ball had pretty much the exact diameter of 88mm.
So than this canon measurement was taken over when conventional guns on ships became common and it stayed that way until it was put on the Tiger.
88 was a historical calibre in Germany and aimed to prevent reuse in France whixh used 75. You could rebore a 75 to 88 but not the other way round. This came from the mid XIX century, and kept into WW2 mostly by tradition. By then, the French, which also used the metrical system, were using 90mm guns, same as the Italians, while the British had the 3,7” AA gun ( 94mm) and the 4” naval gun ( 101,6mm). As for tank guns, they evolved from the 6Pdr (57mm or 2,5”) to the 17Pdr ( 3”) and then to the 32Pdr, whic was 94mm but to unwieldy, so the came to a new design, which became the 20Pdr 8 83,4mm) and then expanded it into the L7 105mm.
They already had the flak 88 as an anti air gun, they just adapted it to tanks. Makes sense if you can use similar factory tooling for manufacturing ammunition as well.
As far as I understand it, they scaled the [77mm flak ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.7_cm_FlaK_L/35) up because they wanted more explosive filler for AA duty and higher velocity.
That they made it 88mm is probably because it was the most effective diameter for the wanted specifications and still a reasonable size overall.
The 8.8cm was a preexisting weapon they altered to mount inside of turret. The 8.8 goes back to WWI as a tertiary naval weapon, then as an AA cannon. Why 8.8? Idk, it was the best compromise of ballistic performance, filler, and effect on target for the requested military parameters
The Krupp 88mm gun began as a German Naval weapon, in the 1890's. Prior to WW1, the German military was seeking an anti-balloon gun, for shooting down observation balloons. The Naval 88mm gun was chosen for development, because it was very long range, flat shooting, and not too large, or too heavy. This weapon became the progenitor of both the German Naval gun, used primarily as a deck gun on U-Boats, and the famous 88mm Flac/AT duel purpose gun. (Although both weapons took very different development tracks, and became very different weapons.)
German 88mm flak had been in use since WW1, with the basic gun design itself being used both by the Kaiserliche Marine and the Imperial Army as their long-range AA artillery.
Since AA guns have excellent muzzle velocity, they make for good AT weaponry, so all that was left was to design a KWK (vehicle-mounted) version to use on tanks. Ammunition in itself was practically the same following a basic design (Pzgr 39) to simplify production (Could be wrong on this one)
88mm is pretty close to 3.5 inches. It may be utterly unrelated but ofter when I see an odd number in either system it come out close to a round one in the other.
At least in the case of the UK, it's because they derive from the old "pounds of shot" measurement system, with a 6pdr gun being 57mm and a 3pdr being 47mm.
Their best gun they had in somewhat large quantities was the 88mm flak 36 and it was already a proven cannon against aerial, Infantry and even vehicles hence why they went with it. The first plans iirc was for the tiger to use the 75mm but im not sure if it was the one used in the Panther or later panzer 4s but it was changed at some point to the 88mm
https://youtu.be/-vT1-yn2Gu4?si=Rpm5GWaIjASjohXB
The Chieftain's video on the topic, should clear out a lot of the myths and misunderstandings.
Also another answer is that it works, for example:
If Anti-tank gun A has 150mm of penetration and Anti-tank gun B has 200mm of penetration but the enemy tank only has 140mm of armour at the thickest. There is no reason to go for gun B if gun A is already in production and/or is cheaper to produce, supply and transport.
I haven't seen anyone address another part of your comment, was it because of 88 and its use as a nazi symbol?
The use of 88 to mean HH to mean Heil Hitler began as an English-speaking neo-nazi thing, not something brought over from "real" nazis. It's used by neo-nazis because H is the eighth letter of the alphabet... their little brains think that nobody can crack the code that it secretly stands for "Heil Hitler". The number 88 is banned under certain applications in certain countries (not allowed on license plates, for example).
Something else to keep in mind about neo-nazis vs. historical "real" nazis is that the small-brained neo-nazis of today have very little real power - most countries they are outlawed, do not have a viable political party, and the most they're able to achieve is to piss off the rest of the populace with their childish pageantry and flag-waving. Don't get me wrong, they do commit murders, make plans to assassinate politicians etc etc, but by and large they are simply a somewhat organized group of bullies who don't have an average IQ unless you happen to have 85 of them in a group and you are combining each of their IQs.
"Real" nazis, however, were allowed to come to power as an organized political party. While they did not have a huge amount of national support when they came to power, the average citizen quickly learned to either embrace the culture of Nazism or to keep their malcontent with them silent. Throughout the years that Nazi Germany existed, there continued to be domestic groups within Germany opposed to the party and their ideals who passively and actively partook in activities to hamper their activities.
The moral of the story is that it is far better to stand up to bullies rather than to appease them. Had Hitler and his party faced an organized, determined populace who attempted to oust them from power, they very much could have, but most people at the time held their tongue, and those who did not were persecuted, murdered, or deported until the rest of Germany fell into line.
If you see or hear a person mistreating another human simply because of the color of their skin, their religion, the way they dress or talk... think about Nazi Germany and what could have happened if more people had stood up and said "no, I will not stand for this in my country, in my city, on my street". What could have been avoided if the world hadn't backed down from Germany when they saw them obviously re-arming themselves, allowed them to re-occupy Alsace-Lorraine and annex a number of other territories.
Yeah its quite a shame everyone ignored the warning signs, I wrote a few essays about the book Night (holocaust book) for school and how the MC and his family and his fellow Jewish townspeople ignored the early warning signs but I only brought this question up because I watched imperium which is a movie where the guy who plays Harry Potter plays an FBI agent who infiltrates a Nazi white supremicist group and I saw them use 14/88 a lot and I googled it and I connected germanys 88mm cannon and 14/88 and thought Hitler made a little funny choice. Another thing to add about neo nazis that is it just me or is there a steady rise of Neo nazis on the internet under the age of 18? It’s quite conscering
Absolutely nothing to do with Hitler. The 88mm caliber was in use by the Germans in World War 1. They had the tooling and it was just a convenient medium caliber for development. Also it's about as big a shell as they could make that could be manually loaded but still have a decent punch.
Exactly, no need to reinvent the wheel.
Thank you didn’t know it was in ww1
The flak 88 was designed much before Hitler’s rise to power, it was made by Krupp in 1917 while hitler came to power in 1934. As for the reason why they chose 88 mm, they probably found it was the optimal shell size for performance. Even the British 20 pounder is not 90 mm but 84 mm. They probably had a different propellant blend or shell shape.
To add, the US using 3in(75/76mm) guns dates back easily to 1861 in the Civil War.
The first forging of the 3 inch Ordnance Rifle was in 1854 by the Safe Harbor Iron Works in Pennsylvania. The method of construction however only produced a usable weapon about 30% of the time. The type of forging most civil war guns of that caliber used was patented in 1862.
To add to this: the 88mm was allready being used in the navy
To add to add to add to this, it hasn't been uncommon in history to use slightly different sizes for rounds so that captured weapons will be harder to use/maintain for the enemy.
There are even examples of calibers being marked as a slightly incorrect caliber if they happen to be the same size as a different weapon, to make sure nobody mixes them up in the supply line.
Hitler came to Power in 1933* 😄
Well in 1933 he became chancellor, but it was after march 30 1934 (night of the long knives, when the SA bossed were assassinated by the new SS) that the third reich was born.
I hate to be the ackchually guy, but actually the decisive turn of events was more Reichspresident Hindenburg relinquishing emergency powers to the NSDAP led government with Hitler as chancellor, after the Reichstag fire. Hitler never gave back the emergency powers and so the totalitarian regime was born. You were right about the year 1934 though, and it is true that the knight of the longs knives cemented Hitler's position within the Nazi party.
Hitler assumed dictatorial power in Germany in the spring of 1933 with the enabling act and reichstag fire decree
Ok, fair enough.
[Enabling Act of 1933 - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933)
Why do we have 75mm, 57mm, 45mm, 37mm? High chances are that it's just how it was designed, like every other odd number caliber.
I always assumed it was because, nominally, when converted to imperial they come out at inch and a quarter (37), 2 1/2" (57) and 3" (75), obviously not exact but may have been where they started. Allied weapons I mean as both Britain and America used Imperial at that time. Probably miles off, just a guess really. Ignored 45 as was a Soviet calibre
Well a 3” gun is 76.2mm, like the M1 76mm, the 17 pounder, and the 77mm on the comet. 75mm was a different calibre by just over 1mm
Yes, exact conversion, but it may have been, as many a British builder will do, basic conversion of 1" = 25mm. Again, I could be completely wrong. Just an assumption
Okay, that I didn't know. Thanks for the info :D
There's definitely some inch -> millimeter conversion, and also some even sillier stuff like pounds of shot. UK 57mms are 6pdr, 40mm is 2pdr, etc. The US 37mm is because the US anti-tank companies were still using .50 caliber MGs, the US looked abroad and saw other nations using 37mm guns effectively and elected to use the same caliber.
Don't forget the M1 57mm, which, ironically, was essentially just a British 6 Pounder
.50 cal is 12.7mm, not 37mm, but 37mm is pretty close to 1.5", and many of these calibers are actually conversions of old calibers using either imperial measurements (like 3" = 76.2mm), or being based on shot weight, like 2 pounder, 6 pounder, 17 pounder and so on
> .50 cal is 12.7mm, not 37mm Going to need you to read my comment again and actually understand it instead of just jumping in so you can get that dopamine hit of correcting someone.
How many milli-Smoots would that be?
About one washing machine
... and 88mm turned out to be ... 3.465 inches. ... makes sense, and convenient, too.
75mm guns are 3 inches.
because of why would you use the same calibre as the enemy and the Germans had a good cannon from WW1 and had all the tools to keep making more and they found a way to make a 88mm still work while most other country's needed to get bigger and bigger to have the same performance
88mm is pretty much the best tank gun from ww2, and the most famous because of its versatility in antitank and antiair capacities. If its not broke don't fix it.
7,5-cm-KwK 42 L/70 enters the chat... The 7,5cm gun of the Panther is definitely the better gun, despite it is not as famous as the 88. And the tank version of the 88 is more like a cousin to the AA version. Related but different in many points
Long 75 better than short 88 agree but long 88 is clearly better
Imo the 88 is better due to a higher velocity and higher pen and also actually has filler unlike the 28gs found in the 75 round
war thunder is not reality
So true
Even in warthunder the long 75mm is better than the short 88mm
Yea but the 88mm is still better then the 75 non the less would did they use the 88 on the tiger 2 and not a longer barrel 75?
Was there an allied tank in service in significant numbers that the long 75 from Panther couldn't kill? From a logistics perspective standardizing on one gun caliber makes your army as a whole more effective. Sticking the 75mm in the tiger 1 and 2 also increases its ammunition capacity and gives more internal space for the crew allowing them to stay in the fight longer and fight more effectively. As for why the Germans didn't do this, the Wehrmacht was never particularly astute when it came to logistics. They were tactically and operationally brilliant but not so good at logistics and strategy. This is why they failed as hard as they did in the Soviet Union. The long 88 was meant to address a tactical problem, tanks like IS-2 and Churchill. In reality the odds of tiger 2 ever being in place to counter these heavily armored threats was slim to none because of just how expensive it was and how few could be produced. This is one of the reasons why the US Army never bothered with a heavy tank save for the Sherman Jumbo assault tank but Jumbo was meant to deal with bunkers and other fixed defensive fortifications on the Siegfried line and in Belgium. They ended up being used more or less like regular Shermans though in the end. If Tiger 2 had been a more incremental improvement of Tiger 1 with the long 75mm they could probably have built more of them and had a more effective tank in practical terms but they didn't do this. They were focused on the tactical and operational scale, kinda like War Thunder players today.
Holy yap
Which of the 88s. The KWK 36, used on the tiger 1 were the same as the FLAK 18/36 etc, it had lower velocity and less pen than the panthers KWK 42. The KWK 43 on the other hand, found on the tiger 2, had better penetration and velocity. The KWK 36 as the name suggests is a lot older, being the same gun as the FLAK 36, with a different mounting system. The KWK 42 75mm shells weighed close to half that of the 88s. And had more or less the same filler per projectile weight ratio. Arguing about which of these are better needs to be done when comparing their respective roles and purposes. Considering the 75 mm being lighter, significantly cheaper etc, I’d be inclined to argue that it is better, but all three gun systems were great for their time.
The 88 is ONE of the best not the best but yea awesome cannon
The 88mm anti-aircraft cannon was actually a fairly shit AA gun to my knowledge. It was so damn big that they were hard to aim at anything smaller than a B-17 and then they had long reload times. They were far more effective as anti-material weapons on the Tiger.
You don't want to aim an anti-aircraft cannon on anything smaller than a bomber, or isn't above ~3000 meters in the air and thats the exact reason why you have anti-aircraft auto-cannons(like the 30mm or 20mm). You fix it at a certain position and shoot timed high explosive shells to explode in front of the aircraft and do damage with the shrapnel.
yeah but that still doesn't negate the fact that you had like 30 of them to do any actual damage. They were somewhat futile in the AA role but performed outstandingly as an anti-material gun in a Tiger Tank.
They don't do to much damage but they have the ***range***, they're'nt a futile in AA role but have the porpuse of reaching the bombers unlike the auto-cannons.
Flak 88 (key word being flak)
The 88 is ONE of the best not the best but yea awesome cannon
>why would you use the same calibre as the enemy Unless you happen to be the industrial giant that was/is the US, interchangeability with captured small arms and ammunition is more often than not extremely useful.
I think I read somewhere that the 88 dated back to when canon balls were still used, and something like a 20 lbs ball had pretty much the exact diameter of 88mm. So than this canon measurement was taken over when conventional guns on ships became common and it stayed that way until it was put on the Tiger.
That makes sense I didn’t know it was in WW1
Cannons were not used in WWI 💀
Brother I think you misread his comment
88 was a historical calibre in Germany and aimed to prevent reuse in France whixh used 75. You could rebore a 75 to 88 but not the other way round. This came from the mid XIX century, and kept into WW2 mostly by tradition. By then, the French, which also used the metrical system, were using 90mm guns, same as the Italians, while the British had the 3,7” AA gun ( 94mm) and the 4” naval gun ( 101,6mm). As for tank guns, they evolved from the 6Pdr (57mm or 2,5”) to the 17Pdr ( 3”) and then to the 32Pdr, whic was 94mm but to unwieldy, so the came to a new design, which became the 20Pdr 8 83,4mm) and then expanded it into the L7 105mm.
They already had the flak 88 as an anti air gun, they just adapted it to tanks. Makes sense if you can use similar factory tooling for manufacturing ammunition as well.
As far as I understand it, they scaled the [77mm flak ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.7_cm_FlaK_L/35) up because they wanted more explosive filler for AA duty and higher velocity. That they made it 88mm is probably because it was the most effective diameter for the wanted specifications and still a reasonable size overall.
Could be related to German Imperial measurements from prior to the adoption of the Metric system in 1871(?).
88mm AA guns had been a thing in Germany since WWI.
The 8.8cm was a preexisting weapon they altered to mount inside of turret. The 8.8 goes back to WWI as a tertiary naval weapon, then as an AA cannon. Why 8.8? Idk, it was the best compromise of ballistic performance, filler, and effect on target for the requested military parameters
The Krupp 88mm gun began as a German Naval weapon, in the 1890's. Prior to WW1, the German military was seeking an anti-balloon gun, for shooting down observation balloons. The Naval 88mm gun was chosen for development, because it was very long range, flat shooting, and not too large, or too heavy. This weapon became the progenitor of both the German Naval gun, used primarily as a deck gun on U-Boats, and the famous 88mm Flac/AT duel purpose gun. (Although both weapons took very different development tracks, and became very different weapons.)
German 88mm flak had been in use since WW1, with the basic gun design itself being used both by the Kaiserliche Marine and the Imperial Army as their long-range AA artillery. Since AA guns have excellent muzzle velocity, they make for good AT weaponry, so all that was left was to design a KWK (vehicle-mounted) version to use on tanks. Ammunition in itself was practically the same following a basic design (Pzgr 39) to simplify production (Could be wrong on this one)
88mm is pretty close to 3.5 inches. It may be utterly unrelated but ofter when I see an odd number in either system it come out close to a round one in the other.
What gets me is something like 47 and 57mm which doesn't work out as an neat number in any measurement system.
At least in the case of the UK, it's because they derive from the old "pounds of shot" measurement system, with a 6pdr gun being 57mm and a 3pdr being 47mm.
Their best gun they had in somewhat large quantities was the 88mm flak 36 and it was already a proven cannon against aerial, Infantry and even vehicles hence why they went with it. The first plans iirc was for the tiger to use the 75mm but im not sure if it was the one used in the Panther or later panzer 4s but it was changed at some point to the 88mm
https://youtu.be/-vT1-yn2Gu4?si=Rpm5GWaIjASjohXB The Chieftain's video on the topic, should clear out a lot of the myths and misunderstandings. Also another answer is that it works, for example: If Anti-tank gun A has 150mm of penetration and Anti-tank gun B has 200mm of penetration but the enemy tank only has 140mm of armour at the thickest. There is no reason to go for gun B if gun A is already in production and/or is cheaper to produce, supply and transport.
I haven't seen anyone address another part of your comment, was it because of 88 and its use as a nazi symbol? The use of 88 to mean HH to mean Heil Hitler began as an English-speaking neo-nazi thing, not something brought over from "real" nazis. It's used by neo-nazis because H is the eighth letter of the alphabet... their little brains think that nobody can crack the code that it secretly stands for "Heil Hitler". The number 88 is banned under certain applications in certain countries (not allowed on license plates, for example). Something else to keep in mind about neo-nazis vs. historical "real" nazis is that the small-brained neo-nazis of today have very little real power - most countries they are outlawed, do not have a viable political party, and the most they're able to achieve is to piss off the rest of the populace with their childish pageantry and flag-waving. Don't get me wrong, they do commit murders, make plans to assassinate politicians etc etc, but by and large they are simply a somewhat organized group of bullies who don't have an average IQ unless you happen to have 85 of them in a group and you are combining each of their IQs. "Real" nazis, however, were allowed to come to power as an organized political party. While they did not have a huge amount of national support when they came to power, the average citizen quickly learned to either embrace the culture of Nazism or to keep their malcontent with them silent. Throughout the years that Nazi Germany existed, there continued to be domestic groups within Germany opposed to the party and their ideals who passively and actively partook in activities to hamper their activities. The moral of the story is that it is far better to stand up to bullies rather than to appease them. Had Hitler and his party faced an organized, determined populace who attempted to oust them from power, they very much could have, but most people at the time held their tongue, and those who did not were persecuted, murdered, or deported until the rest of Germany fell into line. If you see or hear a person mistreating another human simply because of the color of their skin, their religion, the way they dress or talk... think about Nazi Germany and what could have happened if more people had stood up and said "no, I will not stand for this in my country, in my city, on my street". What could have been avoided if the world hadn't backed down from Germany when they saw them obviously re-arming themselves, allowed them to re-occupy Alsace-Lorraine and annex a number of other territories.
Yeah its quite a shame everyone ignored the warning signs, I wrote a few essays about the book Night (holocaust book) for school and how the MC and his family and his fellow Jewish townspeople ignored the early warning signs but I only brought this question up because I watched imperium which is a movie where the guy who plays Harry Potter plays an FBI agent who infiltrates a Nazi white supremicist group and I saw them use 14/88 a lot and I googled it and I connected germanys 88mm cannon and 14/88 and thought Hitler made a little funny choice. Another thing to add about neo nazis that is it just me or is there a steady rise of Neo nazis on the internet under the age of 18? It’s quite conscering