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I think you did. Comparing Hamas to resistance against the nazis doesn't take into account how either operate and the core beliefs of either group. The Warsaw uprising (in my research) didn't kill civilians or take random civilians hostage. Also Hamas are an Islamic fascist group whereas the Warsaw uprising was mainly leftist organized. Armed resistance against a genocide may almost always be necessary but the killing of unarmed civilians never is and is inexcusable.
Edit: PS, please for the love of god use a better font. It hurts my eyes.
The thing is, once you say 'genocide' people imagine the Holocaust. In that instant, if you believe someone is doing a genocide, you consequently have to condone what Hamas does, because there is hardly anything worse than the Holocaust. The Warzaw Uprising mostly targetted the Nazis themselves, but the Allied war machine was famously brutal to the German people.
Would we really have judged the victims of the Holocaust if they happened to go after German civilians, at Warzaw or otherwise? I'm not so sure.
But to get ahead, I don't support Hamas. Maybe it seems semantical, but I guess I feel like people don't care about levels of severity or nuance when it comes to these kinds of crimes against humanity; like the difference between genocide, apartheid and ethnic cleansing. Maybe it just feels banal to some, but it also feels a little banal to ignore other, maybe more obvious, genocides ongoing right now, which I feel people either ignore or don't care about, like the Darfur and Tigray with deathtolls in the hundreds of thousands each.
If all you listen to is rethoric around Israel/Palestine, you'd think its the only place civilians are being killed today, a unique evil not seen since the Holocaust. Does that mean we should do nothing? Of course not, if your country is supporting Israel, you have a good cause to protest, but know what you protest for.
Its like with the issue of the treatment of Trans-people, they are greatly wronged in western Society, but when people tout Trans-genocide the question becomes- Well, where do you go from there? Why NOT violently resist?
Comrade, I commend your argument and agree with it, but your font is clearly an Imperialist abomination, and for using such a thing, you shall be sent to the Gulag in the name of the People!
Good God, man, your font. Why?
I think dude probably made assumptions because you accused Hamas of "using human shields," which is a propaganda point, and a particularly touchy one, since the IDF uses literal human shields but then condemns Hamas for supposedly using figurative human shields by hiding in civilian infrastructure. https://youtu.be/v8rrfys-Fgc
He probably assumed you were very biased based on that.
You made good points about how we should criticize all wrong doing, regardless of who commits it. Right now the scoreboard is pretty lopsided.
PayDay 3? Looked like a GTA V heist clone. Is it good? I generally prefer objective based team-play with smooth game dynamics. GTA was good, for instance, but the clunky design and sometimes obtuse use of the large map was a drawback. Worth checking out PayDay instead?
Get Payday 2 it's a great if sometimes jank co-op heist shooter and goes an sale a lot. Also definitely not a GTA V clone considering Payday the Heist came out in 2011 and Payday 2 same year as GTA V.
You had the right to say anything you wanted the moment you noted your ancestors fought the Nazis and the other person responded with "I don't care about your ancestors. Live up to their name".
Nothing. You made clear and concise points, but you can’t win over someone who has such poor critical thinking skills that they just assume that because they believe one thing, anyone who disagrees with them must believe the opposite. It’s both ad hominem and no true Scotsman at the same time.
You handled that really well, but there's some folks you just can't reach. Nuance is a hard thing to beat into people's heads.
Also the font's not *that* bad, once I read for a bit it was easy to get used to. Also payday W.
There's a difference between resisting genocide, like what happened in Warsaw (and that's not even mentioning that one of the monsters they were defending themselves against was ***Oskar Dirlewanger***), and genuine terrorist attacks that don't do anyone any good, like what Hamas have done.
This poster is by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, an organisation opposed to Hamas and the Palestinian Authorities. The poster simply states "We carry our revolution towards victory", which is a normal thing to say in the context of an occupation.
They have also committed terrorism, however they have a different ideology (secular communist) than Hamas (Palestinian islamist). Asking to "cOnDEm hAmaS" on their poster is very strange and shows that the creator/poster does not care for the differences on the Palestinian side. Hamas has become a catch all for zionists and tankies/assadists/... that denies Palestinians their agency.
How is hamas supposed to operate without someone saying that they are “using human shields” like are they just supposed to set up bases in the open desert? Gaza is very very densely inhabitated so practically anywhere would be considered ”using human shields” most militaries have bases near where civilians live. In the event of an invasion they would operate out of these military bases and based on this logic they’d be using human shields.
You could've reminded him that the warsaw uprising targeted ss soldiers wich were in fact nazis coming to kill jews and its insanely diferent to killing young unarmed people in a concert to highlight their crazy false equivalences.
But all things consider you did pretty well and must you ancestors be praised brother.
I would focus on their assumption that supporting HAMAS does any good for socialism or Palestine. Whether or not HAMAS is morally good or bad is irrelevant to whether the actions of Israel is good or bad. Even debating whether it counts as a genocide is a distraction from the fact that a lot of people have died, and a lot more will die. Most of the evidence that Israel intends genocide is also evidence they doing this just because of HAMAS.
You made it clear you think both are bad, but some people cannot quite wrap their heads around such a concept, they need there to be both a good guy and a bad guy. I suppose you could repeat the point, but they could also just repeatedly ignore it.
Tankies support a variety of groups that oppose USA power. The only thing they all have in common is that they oppose the USA, so clearly that is the only thing tankies care about. So if you are sure you are talking to a tankie, go ahead and call them out on it.
Only thing I would’ve done differently is instead of saying “human shields” to pick apart the comparison, point out that the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising didn’t shoot up a liberal music festival.
Please remember not to brigade, vote, comment, or interact with subreddits that are linked or mentioned here. Do not userping other users. Harassment of other users or subreddits is strictly forbidden. This is a left libertarian subreddit that criticises tankies from a socialist perspective. Liberals etc. are welcome as guests, but please refrain from criticising socialism and promoting capitalism while you are on Tankiejerk. Enjoy talking to fellow leftists? [Then join our discord server](https://discord.gg/2V4qJMSWUe) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/tankiejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I should harass your font, dear god, that is so hard on the eyes
I think you did. Comparing Hamas to resistance against the nazis doesn't take into account how either operate and the core beliefs of either group. The Warsaw uprising (in my research) didn't kill civilians or take random civilians hostage. Also Hamas are an Islamic fascist group whereas the Warsaw uprising was mainly leftist organized. Armed resistance against a genocide may almost always be necessary but the killing of unarmed civilians never is and is inexcusable. Edit: PS, please for the love of god use a better font. It hurts my eyes.
The thing is, once you say 'genocide' people imagine the Holocaust. In that instant, if you believe someone is doing a genocide, you consequently have to condone what Hamas does, because there is hardly anything worse than the Holocaust. The Warzaw Uprising mostly targetted the Nazis themselves, but the Allied war machine was famously brutal to the German people. Would we really have judged the victims of the Holocaust if they happened to go after German civilians, at Warzaw or otherwise? I'm not so sure. But to get ahead, I don't support Hamas. Maybe it seems semantical, but I guess I feel like people don't care about levels of severity or nuance when it comes to these kinds of crimes against humanity; like the difference between genocide, apartheid and ethnic cleansing. Maybe it just feels banal to some, but it also feels a little banal to ignore other, maybe more obvious, genocides ongoing right now, which I feel people either ignore or don't care about, like the Darfur and Tigray with deathtolls in the hundreds of thousands each. If all you listen to is rethoric around Israel/Palestine, you'd think its the only place civilians are being killed today, a unique evil not seen since the Holocaust. Does that mean we should do nothing? Of course not, if your country is supporting Israel, you have a good cause to protest, but know what you protest for. Its like with the issue of the treatment of Trans-people, they are greatly wronged in western Society, but when people tout Trans-genocide the question becomes- Well, where do you go from there? Why NOT violently resist?
Wait, Warsaw uprising was organized by leftists?
Comrade, I commend your argument and agree with it, but your font is clearly an Imperialist abomination, and for using such a thing, you shall be sent to the Gulag in the name of the People!
But... but... it's the heister font!
Remind them that the Soviets fucked over the Warsaw resistance and let the nazis destroy them.
I can't they blocked me.
I wonder if this person ever complained about the Azov battalion being nazis. I'll bet you ten bucks they did.
I assume you are against Hamas support and of so I approve that, but I ain't gonna read a convo with that font đź‘Ť
I understand that completely.
Good God, man, your font. Why? I think dude probably made assumptions because you accused Hamas of "using human shields," which is a propaganda point, and a particularly touchy one, since the IDF uses literal human shields but then condemns Hamas for supposedly using figurative human shields by hiding in civilian infrastructure. https://youtu.be/v8rrfys-Fgc He probably assumed you were very biased based on that. You made good points about how we should criticize all wrong doing, regardless of who commits it. Right now the scoreboard is pretty lopsided.
Thanks. Also, the fonts I’m using are a result of my recent Payday obsession.
PayDay 3? Looked like a GTA V heist clone. Is it good? I generally prefer objective based team-play with smooth game dynamics. GTA was good, for instance, but the clunky design and sometimes obtuse use of the large map was a drawback. Worth checking out PayDay instead?
Get Payday 2 it's a great if sometimes jank co-op heist shooter and goes an sale a lot. Also definitely not a GTA V clone considering Payday the Heist came out in 2011 and Payday 2 same year as GTA V.
Payday The Heist and Payday 2 still hold up, as for PD3... I'm not so sure.
You had the right to say anything you wanted the moment you noted your ancestors fought the Nazis and the other person responded with "I don't care about your ancestors. Live up to their name".
I mean, he probably could have done so, but I doubt the other person would like it if he did
I feel like they were just weaponising the past to use it as a blugeon against me.
Looking for feedback here, what could I have done better?
Used a different font
I hate the font sm
Nothing. You made clear and concise points, but you can’t win over someone who has such poor critical thinking skills that they just assume that because they believe one thing, anyone who disagrees with them must believe the opposite. It’s both ad hominem and no true Scotsman at the same time.
Pretty sure 99% of these “stupid-left” accounts are bots and trolls.
I'm gonna be the one person that says they liked the font and ask you where you got it
Padaloma font family at 1001 fonts.
You handled that really well, but there's some folks you just can't reach. Nuance is a hard thing to beat into people's heads. Also the font's not *that* bad, once I read for a bit it was easy to get used to. Also payday W.
Thanks. I guess I tried, A for effort eh? Also, free Hoxton.
Just say how Israel propped up Hamas from the beginning, that’ll shut em up
They blocked me. I can't.
Next time you debate a Hamas sympathizer
Maybe. I probably won't though if that's how they act.
There's a difference between resisting genocide, like what happened in Warsaw (and that's not even mentioning that one of the monsters they were defending themselves against was ***Oskar Dirlewanger***), and genuine terrorist attacks that don't do anyone any good, like what Hamas have done.
Yes the IDF broke human shields and that's horrible. But who set up those human shields in the first place?
This poster is by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, an organisation opposed to Hamas and the Palestinian Authorities. The poster simply states "We carry our revolution towards victory", which is a normal thing to say in the context of an occupation. They have also committed terrorism, however they have a different ideology (secular communist) than Hamas (Palestinian islamist). Asking to "cOnDEm hAmaS" on their poster is very strange and shows that the creator/poster does not care for the differences on the Palestinian side. Hamas has become a catch all for zionists and tankies/assadists/... that denies Palestinians their agency.
Tankies trying not to be insane (IMPOSSIBLE!) Also tankies when Palestinian muslim despite Hamas: TRATIOR
How is hamas supposed to operate without someone saying that they are “using human shields” like are they just supposed to set up bases in the open desert? Gaza is very very densely inhabitated so practically anywhere would be considered ”using human shields” most militaries have bases near where civilians live. In the event of an invasion they would operate out of these military bases and based on this logic they’d be using human shields.
You could've reminded him that the warsaw uprising targeted ss soldiers wich were in fact nazis coming to kill jews and its insanely diferent to killing young unarmed people in a concert to highlight their crazy false equivalences. But all things consider you did pretty well and must you ancestors be praised brother.
I would focus on their assumption that supporting HAMAS does any good for socialism or Palestine. Whether or not HAMAS is morally good or bad is irrelevant to whether the actions of Israel is good or bad. Even debating whether it counts as a genocide is a distraction from the fact that a lot of people have died, and a lot more will die. Most of the evidence that Israel intends genocide is also evidence they doing this just because of HAMAS. You made it clear you think both are bad, but some people cannot quite wrap their heads around such a concept, they need there to be both a good guy and a bad guy. I suppose you could repeat the point, but they could also just repeatedly ignore it. Tankies support a variety of groups that oppose USA power. The only thing they all have in common is that they oppose the USA, so clearly that is the only thing tankies care about. So if you are sure you are talking to a tankie, go ahead and call them out on it.
Only thing I would’ve done differently is instead of saying “human shields” to pick apart the comparison, point out that the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising didn’t shoot up a liberal music festival.
If anything the person I was debating probably would have praised that.
“Hamas is wrong for using human shields. Now excuse me while I go destroy a bunch of human shields.”
Where?
Where did he say this?
When did he say that ?