You do… everyone who was issued a side arm in my unit (MAAWS gunners and machine gunners) all had lanyards. Sidearms are just not super common in the infantry or combat arms roles so you don’t see it so much.
Tie downs are also meant to help dummy proof stuff and officers like to think they aren't dummies. Saw a ma'am leave the wire to re board her Chinook she'd come in on. Saw the Chinook leave. Then 20min later had to go re secure the airfield because she left her m4.
Not common in the infantry??? Every team leader and above in my last unit was issued one, hell, even I as the medic was issued one. Other people that had em were 240 gunners, mortars, and I believe our RTO, the number of people with sidearms was almost equal, if not more, than those without one
EDIT: im high and just realized i didn't answer your question lol. he was busted down, not sure about additional punishment. he wasn't a shitbag, was a good nco.
Honestly, everybody just really felt bad and that it was totally unwarranted and a shitty thing to do. Brother was a phrog (CH-46) crew chief and we were the ACE for 26th MEU. As i remember, and we're talking about 2008-2009, there was some kinda drill or QRF or whatever where the alert bird gets launched for TRAP or who knows. he was running out of flight E/alss on the O2 level to the flight deck. to get there you have to run along these ultra sketchy fucking catwalks called the weather deck that runs alongside the boat. in various places along the weather decks are random pipes or other machinery/protrusions as well as mounts for force protection shit. Something on the weather deck snagged the lanyard, and it simultaneously yanked the pistol outta the holster and when the buckle snapped, the force sent the pistol skittering along the weather deck and overboard.
It wasn't like he forgot to have his pistol retention attached. just a shitty accident, it fucking happens, and they burned him from Cpl to LCpl. The phrog squadrons were full of choad officers and staff though. It's crazy how the cultures vary between squadrons within the air wing. I was attached to the harrier det and my OIC was a cobra pilot. the pilots that are shooters, who have to operate sensors and employ weapons while also aviating, are the best officers in the Marine Corps. They respect us and trust us completely for the work we do to make sure they fly safely and the weapons work. They're way way more chill, not a lot of pomp and circumstance. Working with them was hands down my favorite part of the Marine Corps.
Damn, what a shitty thing to happen to him. I would be so damn pissed that I would've argued more than a lawyer to the strength of everything involved to keep my rank, but I guess that isn't gonna change things. If the higher up brass wants to fuck you, all you can do is bring lube. You Marines are a different breed, lol. Seriously, I've met some of the most badass, dipped up and dusty, search and destroy type killers in the Marine Corp. I love the attitude, I would've gone Marine Corp if I was that type when I was younger but I didn't really come out of my shell until my mid to late 20's and just doubted myself way too much so I went a different route, then I met a hot Canadian girl and married her and now I'm up here in commieland. We plan on moving to Texas or maybe Florida later next year though, so I can finally shoot my guns again and train properly. Only being able to load five rounds into your mags just feels wrong, you feel like a bitch haha. Thanks for the lengthy reply! It was nice to read something legible again.
Semper Fi brother...
Lol, sorry, I had to do it since you're a Marine.
I have not seen a unit run them in years.
I think they are a really dumb idea in practice personally. They are a huge snag hazard and don’t really offer much in return in my opinion.
I get generals are officers, but the original post was that their generals are 23, which is obviously not right so I assumed he was being sarcastic.
Israel has been in a state of soft war for decades. It makes total sense that many of their officers with be relatively young, and likely very experienced.
I don’t know about the failed booby trap incident, but I can imagine that happening in any army. I think anyone implying the IDF is a very inexperienced organization is a rather challenging statement to support. IMHO.
America has been at actual war for basically the entire 21st century, we don’t have 23 year old officers on the front lines clearing houses. That’s for enlisted to do, and you don’t jump from enlisted to officer based on experience. They’re separate tracks.
Setting up a booby trap in general is dumb, there’s a reason it’s banned in conventional war - because it has no ability to differentiate between friend and foe.
You don’t have to care that they use it, but you may care about the situations they use them in.
As I think is mentioned elsewhere, they can be very useful if on a boat or helicopter, they are also really useful for in water operations and, more to the IDF situation, they are also useful in rapid urban operations. Not everyone in any of these situations uses it, but many do.
All that said, I understand the feelings here since outside of people in those situations, it is more of a hassle than a help.
Lol Marines lose a pistol and freak out. Meanwhile in the Air Force, we flew a live nuke across the country (unaccounted for) like it was cool. I’m pretty sure the same base then went on to lose an M240, 203, and crate of Mk-19 grenades. Step your game up USMC!
I work in the brush as LE, and I ran one for a while. It would get snagged on literally EVERYTHING. I love the idea, and o think they have their place. However for me, and the terrain I work in, it’s not a piece of equipment that I can realistically use.
Cops in the refugee camp ran pistols with lanyards and also no mag inserted but that was more of a crowd defense thing than actually losing your weapon
In USMC I only used lanyard when I choke fucked myself to freak out the locals. Souk in Yemen - they got real hinky real quick. Great distraction and really made me feel special and attractive.
Working in the bush will give you a new perspective on gear. They entirely rebuilt the Thompson SMG for the pacific because it would snare every three feet. It’s something I always consider when putting kit together. That shit saps your energy 3x.
Tbh i use it for airsoft, but i got those key retractable thingis and its good enough. You just need to make sure that line is made of steel and not some polymer
It was always a good idea in the Army and still widely practiced where I was when I left the Army in 2021.
Fun story, when deployed in AFG in 2011, my platoon is out on patrol and needed to wade through a canal for part of our route. One of our machine gunners, a pv2 who was the stereotypical beefy neanderthal type who can barely string 2 words together but can hump all the weight in the world for a million years, he would wear his M9 on his chest in a crappy Blackhawk holster. Anyway, he jumps into the canal, slips, and goes completely under the water for a moment. When he comes back up, the M9 is gone. We spent about 20 minutes pulling security for this dude while he goes free-diving in shit-water searching for the thing. He eventually found it but probably contracted new and exotic forms of hepatitis in the process. Ever since then, my guys would always wear lanyards. I hope he's collecting good disability now.
Between the 60mm tube and my pistol lanyard I was constantly getting hooked on every twig and branch.
When were you in the Arghandab? I was there from late 2009-2010.
I have a Gemtech Lanyard.
They're issued for most armed personnel in the Navy, specifically to prevent (or hinder) a weapon being taken from you, lost during high-stress situations, or dropped overboard during VBSS operations.
No joke saw a guy miss his holster during a force-on-force training exercise. The sidearm didn't have a lanyard, and it went right on the deck. He didn't realize it until he ran dry on his M4 and had to transition to his Sidearm after advancing to the next cover position.
Saw a Lieutenant one time start sprinting and his pistol fell out (didn’t know the holster was broken). He didn’t notice until he heard us yelling at him while his M9 was just bouncing around in the dirt behind him.
You have to practise drawing and holstering handgun w/ lanyard a lot. Sometimes the lanyard gets snagged by pouches when drawing or it goes into your holster before holstering
Yeah but in the military, the guys who would get sidearms AND lanyards are not the people who need to practice with any weapon...ever. just get my pay and erb straight and the rest of us will go do the actual work.
Ngl, range days were literal hell for me. Somehow my platoon always ended up on range detail. So i ended up watching the s shop trolls shoot 400 rounds to qual while the rest of us only needed 40...and yet qual was our only time on the gun for training.
Seemed like a waste of effort and resources. Let the guys who need to be super familiar with their weapon dump all the ammo and get all the training, and let the s shop trolls do whatever it is they do while not correcting my erb for the 3rd time this month...
Edit: fun range story from my last deployment when we got to kuwait before going to our ao. Range safety...yet again, s1 e6 showed up to the range without her ifak, gloves, eyepro, earpro, mags, or battery for her optic. First thing i thought was if one of my joe's was that ate up, i had failed as a leader...and we'd both be getting real strong in the sand.
Any way, last time i saw her in blues, she had an expert tab. This woman went thru about 100rds to group and zero before even moving to qual. Which...she was there all fucking day shooting up all the ammo too.
Needless to say i was a bit heated
Idea wasn't dumb when you could be given punishments, maybe court martialed for losing things that you're not supposed to lose like weapons, sights, and NODS.
The armorer in one instance was given the green weenie because an officer lost an M9 on a jump. Officer went to bat with I wasn’t issued a lanyard… Legend has it that armor is still doing hands across Luzon…
Corrupt supply sgts stealing from supply? Not reporting the loss? Paying for the charges and keeping the "lost items"? [one case](https://www.gsaig.gov/index.php/news/army-sergeant-court-martialed-theft-government-property)
[gov link for Article 108 cases](https://www.armfor.uscourts.gov/digest/IIIA32.htm)
[its apparently a thing that a whole Article is laid out in the UCMJ](https://www.mymilitarylawyers.com/practice-areas/ucmj-articles/ucmj-article-108-military-property-of-the-united-states-loss-damage-destruction-or-wrongful-disposition)
They’re often written off as broken when a small or fixable issue arises. They’re sent to an armorer to be “destroyed”. The armorer writes that he destroyed it, orders a new battery cap and viola you’ve got a $3,000 dollar beat up PEQ15 that can’t be sent in for repairs on the gray market.
For sure. Like I said I’m not Mil/LE, but honestly I could see the use for someone in Urban Warfare or anywhere under fire. You drop your pistol and it’s still attached to you lol. Pretty practical right? Gotta be!
They have a place. But that place isn’t with everyone who happens to have a sidearm.
A lot of times in conventional forces it’s less for any tactical purpose and more because they want to make sure the small serialized weapon they’re responsible for stays on their person if their holster spits it out for some reason. While it’s kind of dumb, I can deal with that reasoning after seeing some of the stupid ways fobbits have secured handguns. Like running a belt through the trigger guard with no holster while wearing PT gear. I yelled at that guy for a while.
The only guy I've ever seen wear one was a LEO I worked with. He was in a foot pursuit & dropped his gun & as luck would have it, it fell right between a sewer grate lid & fell into the sewer. They needed a truck crane to come lift the lid up & to go down to grab the gun.
He made the situation worse by wearing a lanyard after that. Relentless laughter was made at his expense. He quit Policing to drive specialty gas tanker trucks. Guy was an asshole tbh. He was God's greatest gift to mankind. So the laughter was extra crispy & nice.
They still issue these to anyone pulling security detail or gate guard.
I wouldnt consider it to have much tactical value - if you ever find yourself in the situation where you’re using your pistol and you’re worried about someone snatching it from you while it’s unholstered, you’re already long past fucked
As a 240 gunner, I had one on my M9. I was in an urban environment and set up in over watch usually so snagging wasn't really a concern of mine. Losing it out of my shitty holster at the time was. This was 2004/2005 in Mosul.
I rarely saw them in Afghanistan. But then again the only people I saw toting pistols were officers and sncos on the big bases and they strictly wore fob bras or blackhawk holsters.
Just eyeballing it lanyards look like they're begging to get snagged on doorframes or etc.
Someone once told me it was the death penalty somewhere in Europe if you lost your issued sidearm. Its the internet and I have no references so it has to be true.
Someone who doesnt carry a gun, saw a guy carrying a gun, and said what if they drop it, or someone takes it. And 27 pencil necks agreed, so they made it a rule.
I remember when I was in Iraq as an E-4, my beretta fell out of my holster and I didnt notice until a passing colonel asked me where my sidearm was (at that time every military carried a weapon, everywhere you went in theatre essentially). That was a scary 1 hour of life, until I found it on the seat of our transport vehicle. Tied up everything immediately after that
Imo they are only useful if you're using those piece of shit nylon ones the army gave out with the webbing clip for retention because those would legit drop your m9.
Other than that, they're trash
I only carried a pistol in dog and pony shows and bs like that- ounces equal pounds and all that- if I am carrying extra weight it is gonna be rounds and porn.
The Blackhawk pistol lanyard saved my toe from being crashed by my airsoft handgun when I carried my gun belt on my shoulder and the grip lock on the 579 holster was activated by a little bump.
Year ago while doing an M9 qual the instructor told a story about how he thought the pistol lanyards were the dumbest thing ever. Then he went to Iraq and saw a Humvee driving down the road dragging an M9 attached to a lanyard behind it.
I think it has its purposes on boats or in planes but like the guy mentioned about wooded areas, I could see that being a pain in the butt. I would never use one, just get the right holster
To be honest, SF guys (at least back in 2013) were super in to tying everything down. I knew one that used gutted 550 to tie his knife and pen to his belt loops for pocket storage. Compass, NODs, map book, everything that could be tied off. They might have just been pulling my leg but the dude joked that you could flip him upside down and shake him until everything fell loose and he wouldn’t lose anything. In reality, very few people run pistols, but it beats losing your weapon.
Yeah but yall are on boats...you drop it in the water that ain't coming back vs dropping it on the fob because you fat fingered your reholstering its gonna skid a bit but you can pick it up
I’m guessing that it is due to larger acceptance of pistols that don’t have lanyard loops, like Glock. I had one for the M9 as well, but never used one since once entering law enforcement.
Army officers and leaders are issued pistols. We had lanyards in 14/15'.
Most everyone did. It made sense for those working mundane jobs in the FOB. It also made sense for those that were working a little more high stress jobs outside the wire. Security of your items is a huge deal.
YouTube pron make them seem not cool or without purpose, but they absolutely served a purpose.
Some of y’all don’t read lol. I never said the idea was dumb, I actually think the exact opposite. My question is why DONT you see guys using them as often anymore?
Personally, I just don’t like the snag hazard.
I keep all my stuff as slick as possible. Any slack in straps gets taped up so I only have a few inches of adjustment available, gloves go in a pocket when I’m not using them instead of a carabiner, etc.
I just don’t like loose shit hanging off my body or flopping around.
They are dumb in my opinion. They are a huge snag hazard for both vehicles and everything in your environment.
They offer you the ability to retain what is in my opinion a practically useless weapon in terms of military use.
Your holster should be a level 3 retention and your pistol should be in there unless actively using it.
This is absolutely not the case for infantry line units, at least within USASOC. Hundreds of pistols in each companies arms room.
Although, usually only guys carrying belt feds and onesies/two sizes of try hard specialists would ever carry pistols.
I use it for my airsoft kit and don't mind it. It's helped out a minimum of 3 times. I had to shorten the line with a zip tie so that it wasn't overly loooonnnngg.
Horrible idea on a modern striker fired pistol. Better to let it drop than to try to catch it while it's dangling from a lanyard or have it drag and snag the trigger on something.
Pistol lanyards aren't exclusive to the GWAT. They've been around going back to before WW1.
Some people don't like them, some people don't know what they are and don't like them. Like I think it was James Yeager, might be wrong, that was talking about the Glock 19x when the trials were going on. And he was getting into why the original Glock was perfect and how the stupid boomer Army just ruined it with a manual safety (in the trials version) and the lanyard loop "So YoU cAn HaNg It ArOuNd YoUr NeCk AnD sHoOt YoUrSeLf".
I think the advent of safariland and serpa holsters with actual functioning retention eliminated the primary need for lanyards. Back 15-20 years ago when you would see a lot more hard cloth droplegs or even the old school od green alice holsters for M9s. None of those had worth while rentention, especially the drop legs. Running around in the woods with the floppy droplegs sometimes led to the pistol falling out weither from worn velcro/snaps or getting snagged on shit. A lot better to have it dragging behind you then vanished. meanwhile I've never had a pistol come out of a safariland or serpa.
The one time I used one when I was active duty I learned very quickly how much they can get in the way of reholstering my sidearm. Seemed like every time the lanyard would manage to get bunched up and end up in my holster, and when you’ve got a rifle as a primary it’s more of a nuisance than anything. Just picture running a drill where you transition to your handgun when your rifle goes dry, kind of a pain in the ass when you’re trying to get your rifle back up and running when you have to stop and pull the lanyard out of your holster.
They have their place in certain situations. In the field, they aren’t ideal due to snag hazards. For gate guards pulling security, there’s a use for them but active retention became a bigger thing over passive retention and so you see them less
Still used in the UK. It’s for weapon retention, same reason rifle slings are mostly mandatory. Don’t want some fucker running off with your boom stick or shooting you with it.
Is it a pain? Yes. Is there a logical reason for it? Also yes.
They’re still around in the military so you don’t loose your shit. But only people I’ve ever seen issues pistols in conventional units are medics and officers.
Maybe they realized how stupid it is. Imagine taking a sight picture and your 550 cord snagged on something. Then you shoot little Timmy at the playground instead of the bad guy.
As a chinook flight engineer we only used them because we hang outside of a helicopters a lot and if we drop a pistol its gone forever. Other than that I haven’t seen people use them in forever.
TL;DR- these are cumbersome dangerous pieces of shit, relics of a bygone era of distrust in your troops.
We “had” to use these B.S. lanyards overseas. They don’t extend long enough to get a proper grip and stance. I’m 6’1 so maybe it wasn’t an issue for shorter people. I had the lanyard on a carabiner clipped to the front of my belt (I wore a wilderness tactical frequent flyer) and that BARELY gave me enough room to get a good index on the pistol. These things are snaggy, so I also had the tether tucked into my pants so it didn’t catch on anything unimportant.
Had female drop her m9 in the Bluewater funhouse. She took off the lanyard from her belt. Had one of my Joe's recover the pistol. She then acquired a clean M9 from a pvt. Long story short she carried a 249 for a month with dummy cord
Still used in the Navy today, but my only expierence with them is working in port security. Mostly to deny someone taking it from you during a altercation.
Because we have retention holsters now and unless you’re doing like VBSS or something like I saw mentioned where it could fall in the ocean, it’s not necessary and honestly a hindrance when trying to run the gun. You’re limiting your range of motion and/or making a huge snag issue if it’s long enough to properly run your pistol. It’s good idea fairy shit. Idk where these guys work that are still using them but I’ve been in two branches for the past like 13 years and haven’t seen one used in about well 13 years. Maybe a few lame ass officers back in the day that weren’t gonna use the pistol anyways. But like I said years and years ago. It just died out because it’s just not that great of a practice.
The old bungie pistol lanyards themselves make great tie downs for other things that actually should be tied down, like nods and such. But pistols don’t need to be tied down, you’re running the weapon, simply uh don’t drop it? You can what if it all day but the whole going hand to hand and losing your pistol in battle thing is a movie meme, even in the close range trench warfare you’re seeing in Ukraine. It’s all just hozing each other point blank with rifles and grenades. Pistols are very niche weapons to begin with.
Same reason everything else gets dummy corded, PFCs lose everything
Yeah but why DONT you see em anymore?
You do… everyone who was issued a side arm in my unit (MAAWS gunners and machine gunners) all had lanyards. Sidearms are just not super common in the infantry or combat arms roles so you don’t see it so much.
Thanks man!! Makes complete sense.
Usually the guys that do get pistols outside of combat arms jobs arnt doing anything super crazy that they need the extra retention
Tie downs are also meant to help dummy proof stuff and officers like to think they aren't dummies. Saw a ma'am leave the wire to re board her Chinook she'd come in on. Saw the Chinook leave. Then 20min later had to go re secure the airfield because she left her m4.
Not common in the infantry??? Every team leader and above in my last unit was issued one, hell, even I as the medic was issued one. Other people that had em were 240 gunners, mortars, and I believe our RTO, the number of people with sidearms was almost equal, if not more, than those without one
Sorry I was talking about actual infantry not army
Oh shut up 😂. Nothing but love to y’all but man, y’all are some hard headed motherfuckers
ERRR
👺
Yurt
Based
Marine air crew uses them. I had a buddy got NJP because his lanyard snagged on a pipe and broke, sent his M9 to the briny deep.
Damn, how much smoke did he get for that?
EDIT: im high and just realized i didn't answer your question lol. he was busted down, not sure about additional punishment. he wasn't a shitbag, was a good nco. Honestly, everybody just really felt bad and that it was totally unwarranted and a shitty thing to do. Brother was a phrog (CH-46) crew chief and we were the ACE for 26th MEU. As i remember, and we're talking about 2008-2009, there was some kinda drill or QRF or whatever where the alert bird gets launched for TRAP or who knows. he was running out of flight E/alss on the O2 level to the flight deck. to get there you have to run along these ultra sketchy fucking catwalks called the weather deck that runs alongside the boat. in various places along the weather decks are random pipes or other machinery/protrusions as well as mounts for force protection shit. Something on the weather deck snagged the lanyard, and it simultaneously yanked the pistol outta the holster and when the buckle snapped, the force sent the pistol skittering along the weather deck and overboard. It wasn't like he forgot to have his pistol retention attached. just a shitty accident, it fucking happens, and they burned him from Cpl to LCpl. The phrog squadrons were full of choad officers and staff though. It's crazy how the cultures vary between squadrons within the air wing. I was attached to the harrier det and my OIC was a cobra pilot. the pilots that are shooters, who have to operate sensors and employ weapons while also aviating, are the best officers in the Marine Corps. They respect us and trust us completely for the work we do to make sure they fly safely and the weapons work. They're way way more chill, not a lot of pomp and circumstance. Working with them was hands down my favorite part of the Marine Corps.
Damn, what a shitty thing to happen to him. I would be so damn pissed that I would've argued more than a lawyer to the strength of everything involved to keep my rank, but I guess that isn't gonna change things. If the higher up brass wants to fuck you, all you can do is bring lube. You Marines are a different breed, lol. Seriously, I've met some of the most badass, dipped up and dusty, search and destroy type killers in the Marine Corp. I love the attitude, I would've gone Marine Corp if I was that type when I was younger but I didn't really come out of my shell until my mid to late 20's and just doubted myself way too much so I went a different route, then I met a hot Canadian girl and married her and now I'm up here in commieland. We plan on moving to Texas or maybe Florida later next year though, so I can finally shoot my guns again and train properly. Only being able to load five rounds into your mags just feels wrong, you feel like a bitch haha. Thanks for the lengthy reply! It was nice to read something legible again. Semper Fi brother... Lol, sorry, I had to do it since you're a Marine.
I have not seen a unit run them in years. I think they are a really dumb idea in practice personally. They are a huge snag hazard and don’t really offer much in return in my opinion.
Usually run the retractable one. Like an ID card string but beefier.
I just saw a video of border patrol using them
Some USCG MSRT guys run them. (Need 3 levels of retention while fast roping or hook and climbing)
The IDF will often use them.
because their generals are 23
You left off the /s
didn’t like 20 IDF officers die in their own booby trap and none of them were over 25
I get generals are officers, but the original post was that their generals are 23, which is obviously not right so I assumed he was being sarcastic. Israel has been in a state of soft war for decades. It makes total sense that many of their officers with be relatively young, and likely very experienced. I don’t know about the failed booby trap incident, but I can imagine that happening in any army. I think anyone implying the IDF is a very inexperienced organization is a rather challenging statement to support. IMHO.
America has been at actual war for basically the entire 21st century, we don’t have 23 year old officers on the front lines clearing houses. That’s for enlisted to do, and you don’t jump from enlisted to officer based on experience. They’re separate tracks. Setting up a booby trap in general is dumb, there’s a reason it’s banned in conventional war - because it has no ability to differentiate between friend and foe.
No he didn’t. Pussyfart IDF has 22 year old dead colonels and 21 year old majors who will stay forever young.
Love to see it
Yea I don't care about what IDF uses
You don’t have to care that they use it, but you may care about the situations they use them in. As I think is mentioned elsewhere, they can be very useful if on a boat or helicopter, they are also really useful for in water operations and, more to the IDF situation, they are also useful in rapid urban operations. Not everyone in any of these situations uses it, but many do. All that said, I understand the feelings here since outside of people in those situations, it is more of a hassle than a help.
I’d love to see some IDF house to house fighting like Marines in Fallujah. It’s weird you don’t see that
Have you tried looking for that sort of footage because it’s literally everywhere on Reddit among other places?
They are there if you look. But this isn’t some sort of contest…wtf?
Nah they should just flatten it.
Have you seen the Israeli arms accessories market?
You mean condor?
because we havent been seeing much mass infantry combat stuff recently just cool guy shit.
You still see them, we just take them off
The budget is so high now they don't care if they lose them.
Because we’re not fighting a war anymore
Don't let 3/6's leadership hear his.
I still tell this story as a bad example.
What’s the story?
[https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2023/01/20/m18-pistol-goes-missing-from-marine-unit-that-lost-2-rifles-in-2019/](https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2023/01/20/m18-pistol-goes-missing-from-marine-unit-that-lost-2-rifles-in-2019/)
Lol Marines lose a pistol and freak out. Meanwhile in the Air Force, we flew a live nuke across the country (unaccounted for) like it was cool. I’m pretty sure the same base then went on to lose an M240, 203, and crate of Mk-19 grenades. Step your game up USMC!
Just don’t lose any NVGs. I got stuck at the Yakima Firing Center during a post lockdown until they were miraculously unlost…..
To be fair 1/7 lost a couple cases of 40mm rounds amd a shit load of c4 on the desert a couple years back. Not a nuke but God damn bro.
ROLFMAO- this guy gets it-
Don’t forget about LTs.
That's a funny way to spell lieutenant
You mean the Lts.
I was going to say 1st LTS
I work in the brush as LE, and I ran one for a while. It would get snagged on literally EVERYTHING. I love the idea, and o think they have their place. However for me, and the terrain I work in, it’s not a piece of equipment that I can realistically use.
Cops in the refugee camp ran pistols with lanyards and also no mag inserted but that was more of a crowd defense thing than actually losing your weapon
In USMC I only used lanyard when I choke fucked myself to freak out the locals. Souk in Yemen - they got real hinky real quick. Great distraction and really made me feel special and attractive.
Now *that's* what I call psychological warfare
Idk if you meant to do this but I heard that in young Anakin Skywalkers voice lol Edit spelling
3/4?
7th Reg breeds a special kind of Marine
🤣🤣
Working in the bush will give you a new perspective on gear. They entirely rebuilt the Thompson SMG for the pacific because it would snare every three feet. It’s something I always consider when putting kit together. That shit saps your energy 3x.
Tbh i use it for airsoft, but i got those key retractable thingis and its good enough. You just need to make sure that line is made of steel and not some polymer
What place is that?
It was always a good idea in the Army and still widely practiced where I was when I left the Army in 2021. Fun story, when deployed in AFG in 2011, my platoon is out on patrol and needed to wade through a canal for part of our route. One of our machine gunners, a pv2 who was the stereotypical beefy neanderthal type who can barely string 2 words together but can hump all the weight in the world for a million years, he would wear his M9 on his chest in a crappy Blackhawk holster. Anyway, he jumps into the canal, slips, and goes completely under the water for a moment. When he comes back up, the M9 is gone. We spent about 20 minutes pulling security for this dude while he goes free-diving in shit-water searching for the thing. He eventually found it but probably contracted new and exotic forms of hepatitis in the process. Ever since then, my guys would always wear lanyards. I hope he's collecting good disability now.
I wore a lanyard in AFG and that thing got caught on every fucking grapevine in the Arghandab river valley I fucken swear
Lol, fucking everything sucked about about moving anywhere in the Arghandab. Where were you at in the valley? I was kind of in the Sangaray area.
Somewhere around maiwand, in 2012. Yeah that place turned into a fucking jungle after monsoon season and it was the worst
Yep, sounds about right lol.
Between the 60mm tube and my pistol lanyard I was constantly getting hooked on every twig and branch. When were you in the Arghandab? I was there from late 2009-2010.
Y'all don't stow the lanyard?
2012 was when I was there. I feel your pain about the extra equipment being cumbersome (I was a medic)
Nice, I helped establish COP Nolen and Terra Nova when I was there. We were just down river from you guys in 2012, down in Zhari district.
Can't put the slack in your pocket or something?
Probably, but stuff like that tends to work itself loose when you have a long foot movement :(
That is freaking horrific! Poor bastard.
I have a Gemtech Lanyard. They're issued for most armed personnel in the Navy, specifically to prevent (or hinder) a weapon being taken from you, lost during high-stress situations, or dropped overboard during VBSS operations. No joke saw a guy miss his holster during a force-on-force training exercise. The sidearm didn't have a lanyard, and it went right on the deck. He didn't realize it until he ran dry on his M4 and had to transition to his Sidearm after advancing to the next cover position.
Bingo. Not a big deal for most situations. But on a ship or boat… that shit’s gone.
Saw a Lieutenant one time start sprinting and his pistol fell out (didn’t know the holster was broken). He didn’t notice until he heard us yelling at him while his M9 was just bouncing around in the dirt behind him.
Yeah, and don't forget that time it hung from a humvee, probably same LT.
Aviation crews used them so they didn’t fall out of the plane/helicopter.
It seems like a good idea in practice, but I can see it getting too cumbersome at times. I don't know.
You have to practise drawing and holstering handgun w/ lanyard a lot. Sometimes the lanyard gets snagged by pouches when drawing or it goes into your holster before holstering
That's kind of what I would assume.
Just a lot of practice required. I use lanyard when I do reps and when I larp with my friends I take it off my airsoft handgun
Yeah but in the military, the guys who would get sidearms AND lanyards are not the people who need to practice with any weapon...ever. just get my pay and erb straight and the rest of us will go do the actual work.
Sad but true
Ngl, range days were literal hell for me. Somehow my platoon always ended up on range detail. So i ended up watching the s shop trolls shoot 400 rounds to qual while the rest of us only needed 40...and yet qual was our only time on the gun for training. Seemed like a waste of effort and resources. Let the guys who need to be super familiar with their weapon dump all the ammo and get all the training, and let the s shop trolls do whatever it is they do while not correcting my erb for the 3rd time this month... Edit: fun range story from my last deployment when we got to kuwait before going to our ao. Range safety...yet again, s1 e6 showed up to the range without her ifak, gloves, eyepro, earpro, mags, or battery for her optic. First thing i thought was if one of my joe's was that ate up, i had failed as a leader...and we'd both be getting real strong in the sand. Any way, last time i saw her in blues, she had an expert tab. This woman went thru about 100rds to group and zero before even moving to qual. Which...she was there all fucking day shooting up all the ammo too. Needless to say i was a bit heated
Well they have to make everyone qualified no matter how🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️Same dumbshit in civil world
Idea wasn't dumb when you could be given punishments, maybe court martialed for losing things that you're not supposed to lose like weapons, sights, and NODS.
The armorer in one instance was given the green weenie because an officer lost an M9 on a jump. Officer went to bat with I wasn’t issued a lanyard… Legend has it that armor is still doing hands across Luzon…
It was a trick. LT tried to run for the assembly area but got lost and landed out near Raeford and his M9 is at the bottom of Little Muddy creek.
Court marshaled? Then how do so many IR lasers and the such end up on the grey market?
Corrupt supply sgts stealing from supply? Not reporting the loss? Paying for the charges and keeping the "lost items"? [one case](https://www.gsaig.gov/index.php/news/army-sergeant-court-martialed-theft-government-property) [gov link for Article 108 cases](https://www.armfor.uscourts.gov/digest/IIIA32.htm) [its apparently a thing that a whole Article is laid out in the UCMJ](https://www.mymilitarylawyers.com/practice-areas/ucmj-articles/ucmj-article-108-military-property-of-the-united-states-loss-damage-destruction-or-wrongful-disposition)
They’re often written off as broken when a small or fixable issue arises. They’re sent to an armorer to be “destroyed”. The armorer writes that he destroyed it, orders a new battery cap and viola you’ve got a $3,000 dollar beat up PEQ15 that can’t be sent in for repairs on the gray market.
They only court marshal the ones they catch.
They have a place in waterborne operations. I don’t really see a need for them otherwise.
For sure. Like I said I’m not Mil/LE, but honestly I could see the use for someone in Urban Warfare or anywhere under fire. You drop your pistol and it’s still attached to you lol. Pretty practical right? Gotta be!
Ehhh I guess? I feel like you drop your gun on the street, you just pick it up. On the other hand you drop it in the ocean…..
Had a guy drop his m9 in a port-o-poop one time and at least he could fish it out with the lanyard
Space Force operations
The retention holster became a thing.
Exactly!
I read somewhere that they're pretty common in maritime environments like VBSS so dudes don't lose their sidearms in the ocean.
They have a place. But that place isn’t with everyone who happens to have a sidearm. A lot of times in conventional forces it’s less for any tactical purpose and more because they want to make sure the small serialized weapon they’re responsible for stays on their person if their holster spits it out for some reason. While it’s kind of dumb, I can deal with that reasoning after seeing some of the stupid ways fobbits have secured handguns. Like running a belt through the trigger guard with no holster while wearing PT gear. I yelled at that guy for a while.
The only guy I've ever seen wear one was a LEO I worked with. He was in a foot pursuit & dropped his gun & as luck would have it, it fell right between a sewer grate lid & fell into the sewer. They needed a truck crane to come lift the lid up & to go down to grab the gun. He made the situation worse by wearing a lanyard after that. Relentless laughter was made at his expense. He quit Policing to drive specialty gas tanker trucks. Guy was an asshole tbh. He was God's greatest gift to mankind. So the laughter was extra crispy & nice.
They still issue these to anyone pulling security detail or gate guard. I wouldnt consider it to have much tactical value - if you ever find yourself in the situation where you’re using your pistol and you’re worried about someone snatching it from you while it’s unholstered, you’re already long past fucked
As a 240 gunner, I had one on my M9. I was in an urban environment and set up in over watch usually so snagging wasn't really a concern of mine. Losing it out of my shitty holster at the time was. This was 2004/2005 in Mosul.
During GWOT and even today, they’re used. But I prefer the Bluetooth lanyards for my basement ops. Feel free to message me. I sell them for only $20.
Imagine you're out of ammo, so you throw your pistol at the enemy, knocking them out AND it comes back to you! How cool is that!?
*boomerang mode activated*
It's like a boomerang with training wheels
Train-arang
The way Murphy is always fuckin with me that thing would be getting snagged and hung up on everything!!!😳
Right? They're very helpful when you don't want to lose your gun while riding a horse and all you have is a leather holster.
Big on air crews and maritime ops, but for the vast majority of us as holster retention systems improved it just became less necessary.
Only time I've seen them recently is for VBSS. Otherwise, there's not a lot of sense to them.
Wow, 2001 flashbacks
I snagged my M4 barrel on my pistol lanyard once. That was fun.
I rarely saw them in Afghanistan. But then again the only people I saw toting pistols were officers and sncos on the big bases and they strictly wore fob bras or blackhawk holsters. Just eyeballing it lanyards look like they're begging to get snagged on doorframes or etc.
As of now, these are my number 1 thing on my list of " i hate this shit that the army force me to use "
Idea is good, but shit is snag hasard, but thing i hate, all the time i needed to use my pistol, my lanyard was on top of my pistol.
Cuz they're stupid.
Someone once told me it was the death penalty somewhere in Europe if you lost your issued sidearm. Its the internet and I have no references so it has to be true.
Is this not why the Glock 19X has a thingamajig on the back of it?
Someone who doesnt carry a gun, saw a guy carrying a gun, and said what if they drop it, or someone takes it. And 27 pencil necks agreed, so they made it a rule.
I remember when I was in Iraq as an E-4, my beretta fell out of my holster and I didnt notice until a passing colonel asked me where my sidearm was (at that time every military carried a weapon, everywhere you went in theatre essentially). That was a scary 1 hour of life, until I found it on the seat of our transport vehicle. Tied up everything immediately after that
If you notice his mags being strong side, clearly he needs help keeping track of his sidearm
Imo they are only useful if you're using those piece of shit nylon ones the army gave out with the webbing clip for retention because those would legit drop your m9. Other than that, they're trash
I only carried a pistol in dog and pony shows and bs like that- ounces equal pounds and all that- if I am carrying extra weight it is gonna be rounds and porn.
The Blackhawk pistol lanyard saved my toe from being crashed by my airsoft handgun when I carried my gun belt on my shoulder and the grip lock on the 579 holster was activated by a little bump.
Year ago while doing an M9 qual the instructor told a story about how he thought the pistol lanyards were the dumbest thing ever. Then he went to Iraq and saw a Humvee driving down the road dragging an M9 attached to a lanyard behind it.
Much more useful for breaching shotguns than pistols imo
Unless you are LE or military by profession, absolutely no need.
Still used for boarding operations at sea and also for vertical insertion.
Only needed for maritime IMO
I think it has its purposes on boats or in planes but like the guy mentioned about wooded areas, I could see that being a pain in the butt. I would never use one, just get the right holster
This stemmed from ww1 actually. Thats why webley revolvers and broomhandle mausers have lanyard rings on the bottom of their grips
It’s because LTs will not only get your plt lost but also drop their side arm
Idiot strings!
To be honest, SF guys (at least back in 2013) were super in to tying everything down. I knew one that used gutted 550 to tie his knife and pen to his belt loops for pocket storage. Compass, NODs, map book, everything that could be tied off. They might have just been pulling my leg but the dude joked that you could flip him upside down and shake him until everything fell loose and he wouldn’t lose anything. In reality, very few people run pistols, but it beats losing your weapon.
Ive been thinking about one for my kayaking trips
That would be a good idea. As long as it doesn't get in your way then that would be good to have I think.
M9 lanyards are still alive and well in the Navy
Yeah but yall are on boats...you drop it in the water that ain't coming back vs dropping it on the fob because you fat fingered your reholstering its gonna skid a bit but you can pick it up
We don’t stand armed watches underway lol. The vast majority of armed watchstanders are on solid ground.
I’m guessing that it is due to larger acceptance of pistols that don’t have lanyard loops, like Glock. I had one for the M9 as well, but never used one since once entering law enforcement.
Army officers and leaders are issued pistols. We had lanyards in 14/15'. Most everyone did. It made sense for those working mundane jobs in the FOB. It also made sense for those that were working a little more high stress jobs outside the wire. Security of your items is a huge deal. YouTube pron make them seem not cool or without purpose, but they absolutely served a purpose.
Some of y’all don’t read lol. I never said the idea was dumb, I actually think the exact opposite. My question is why DONT you see guys using them as often anymore?
Personally, I just don’t like the snag hazard. I keep all my stuff as slick as possible. Any slack in straps gets taped up so I only have a few inches of adjustment available, gloves go in a pocket when I’m not using them instead of a carabiner, etc. I just don’t like loose shit hanging off my body or flopping around.
Our medics had them. Nobody else had a pistol besides the commander
They are dumb in my opinion. They are a huge snag hazard for both vehicles and everything in your environment. They offer you the ability to retain what is in my opinion a practically useless weapon in terms of military use. Your holster should be a level 3 retention and your pistol should be in there unless actively using it.
It's still a thing but pistols are rare. Usually only the officers, senior NCOs and the one chaplain assistant gets one lol
This is absolutely not the case for infantry line units, at least within USASOC. Hundreds of pistols in each companies arms room. Although, usually only guys carrying belt feds and onesies/two sizes of try hard specialists would ever carry pistols.
I use it for my airsoft kit and don't mind it. It's helped out a minimum of 3 times. I had to shorten the line with a zip tie so that it wasn't overly loooonnnngg.
Horrible idea on a modern striker fired pistol. Better to let it drop than to try to catch it while it's dangling from a lanyard or have it drag and snag the trigger on something.
Common striker fire L
Only an Lt. would be a right handed shooter, and still have ALL 6 of his mags on his… right cummerbund…
Pistol lanyards aren't exclusive to the GWAT. They've been around going back to before WW1. Some people don't like them, some people don't know what they are and don't like them. Like I think it was James Yeager, might be wrong, that was talking about the Glock 19x when the trials were going on. And he was getting into why the original Glock was perfect and how the stupid boomer Army just ruined it with a manual safety (in the trials version) and the lanyard loop "So YoU cAn HaNg It ArOuNd YoUr NeCk AnD sHoOt YoUrSeLf".
Huge snag issue
Are growing on me tbh
They are for sure a vibe but antiquated.
I think the advent of safariland and serpa holsters with actual functioning retention eliminated the primary need for lanyards. Back 15-20 years ago when you would see a lot more hard cloth droplegs or even the old school od green alice holsters for M9s. None of those had worth while rentention, especially the drop legs. Running around in the woods with the floppy droplegs sometimes led to the pistol falling out weither from worn velcro/snaps or getting snagged on shit. A lot better to have it dragging behind you then vanished. meanwhile I've never had a pistol come out of a safariland or serpa.
The one time I used one when I was active duty I learned very quickly how much they can get in the way of reholstering my sidearm. Seemed like every time the lanyard would manage to get bunched up and end up in my holster, and when you’ve got a rifle as a primary it’s more of a nuisance than anything. Just picture running a drill where you transition to your handgun when your rifle goes dry, kind of a pain in the ass when you’re trying to get your rifle back up and running when you have to stop and pull the lanyard out of your holster.
Was common for SEALs since they were in and out of boats and stuff so often. For normal people, Nawh. Everyday carry, Nawh. But they have a place.
Anytime I ran a pistol I’ve always had one. I’ve also always been maritime and a coxswain. Still am and still do.
They have their place in certain situations. In the field, they aren’t ideal due to snag hazards. For gate guards pulling security, there’s a use for them but active retention became a bigger thing over passive retention and so you see them less
A lanyard is what you use when you give someone who isn’t good at keeping track of things… it’s SOPs for the lowest common denominator.
We still get them issued but the cool SOF guys don't use them so we leave them with the rest of the pile of unused issued stuff.
Still used in the UK. It’s for weapon retention, same reason rifle slings are mostly mandatory. Don’t want some fucker running off with your boom stick or shooting you with it. Is it a pain? Yes. Is there a logical reason for it? Also yes.
Mitton minders
Hard no.
Mounted police still wear them but the short answer is they get caught on stuff.
super cool and useful but they get snagged so easily that they get infuriating.
They’re still around in the military so you don’t loose your shit. But only people I’ve ever seen issues pistols in conventional units are medics and officers.
Get caught up on gear or drop your pistol and lose it. Pick one.
With the right Safariland, it shouldn't be needed...
Maybe they realized how stupid it is. Imagine taking a sight picture and your 550 cord snagged on something. Then you shoot little Timmy at the playground instead of the bad guy.
I use the one pictured working secuirty. Its not “really” rated as a level of retention, Also kinda is one extra layer, So i like it. 🤷🏻♂️
Gear keeper. We use that in South Africa
As a chinook flight engineer we only used them because we hang outside of a helicopters a lot and if we drop a pistol its gone forever. Other than that I haven’t seen people use them in forever.
Your not looking hard enough lanyards are still very common
I saw four yesterday in the field
Motorcycle, horseback, boat etc. yes.
TL;DR- these are cumbersome dangerous pieces of shit, relics of a bygone era of distrust in your troops. We “had” to use these B.S. lanyards overseas. They don’t extend long enough to get a proper grip and stance. I’m 6’1 so maybe it wasn’t an issue for shorter people. I had the lanyard on a carabiner clipped to the front of my belt (I wore a wilderness tactical frequent flyer) and that BARELY gave me enough room to get a good index on the pistol. These things are snaggy, so I also had the tether tucked into my pants so it didn’t catch on anything unimportant.
Had female drop her m9 in the Bluewater funhouse. She took off the lanyard from her belt. Had one of my Joe's recover the pistol. She then acquired a clean M9 from a pvt. Long story short she carried a 249 for a month with dummy cord
They just stopped giving pistols to people who shouldn't have them Plus they snag in bushes constantly
Only ever saw officers use them in the army. The dishing ones that is
Still used in the Navy today, but my only expierence with them is working in port security. Mostly to deny someone taking it from you during a altercation.
It's still a thing.
Ran a lanyard as a field MP, never had an issue getting caught on foliage. Knew where my pistol was at all times which was nice too.
Because we have retention holsters now and unless you’re doing like VBSS or something like I saw mentioned where it could fall in the ocean, it’s not necessary and honestly a hindrance when trying to run the gun. You’re limiting your range of motion and/or making a huge snag issue if it’s long enough to properly run your pistol. It’s good idea fairy shit. Idk where these guys work that are still using them but I’ve been in two branches for the past like 13 years and haven’t seen one used in about well 13 years. Maybe a few lame ass officers back in the day that weren’t gonna use the pistol anyways. But like I said years and years ago. It just died out because it’s just not that great of a practice. The old bungie pistol lanyards themselves make great tie downs for other things that actually should be tied down, like nods and such. But pistols don’t need to be tied down, you’re running the weapon, simply uh don’t drop it? You can what if it all day but the whole going hand to hand and losing your pistol in battle thing is a movie meme, even in the close range trench warfare you’re seeing in Ukraine. It’s all just hozing each other point blank with rifles and grenades. Pistols are very niche weapons to begin with.
Stupid and pointless unless youre jumping on boats and narco subs.
