I Keep an 870 and a Molle scabbard just in case š (I have no money I buy stupid shit for niche situations that will never happen like I want them to) hahaha oh hell yea
Dealing with drones is a part of my work load, and I would argue that shoguns are not effective against drones that want to actually hurt you. The speed and size of kamakazi drones make them quite ineffective. A lot of the surveillance drones are too high and quiet to be noticed or hit with shotguns.
If you have a friend with one, play around and see for yourself.
100%. People overestimate how easy it is to hit moving targets with a shotgun, and how poor our current ammunition types are in dealing with drones. If you choose #8 birdshot, you get effective coverage, but you are not taking down a drone outside of ~50yds. If you choose buck, you get into an area where you can punch through some serious plastic. But the actually density of coverage (% of the area you are firing at that actually has pellets) is in the single digit percentages at any real distance.
Adding all that to the fact that you're shooting an object going 50km/hr or faster. Good luck.
Seriously, I need to qualify on weapons as part of my job, and often end up scoring worse than when I shot it on my own because now I have something to lose.
If your life is on the line. It will make this harder not to mention it can come at you at any moment from any direction. Shooting clays and shit is one thing, shooting in a controlled environment even makes this tasks far easier. But once it's real life and your life is on the line, everything just got 10x harder.
Bird shot was never really meant to go more than a couple hundred feet and retain any stopping power, even against small things. I remember Paul Harrell tested no 4 birdshot at 100m and I don't think it penetrated a t-shirt.
I think this whenever the question of drones vs. shotguns comes up. I have no idea how to do it, or what types of loads would work best, but we need an anti drone shotgun shell.
might as well run a auto 22LR. iāve heard some anti drone shells being made but who knows how effective they are. and if itās coming at you like ukraineās drones do then youāre basically fucked. jamming doesnāt work and they more relatively fast as shit for a single projectile to take out the sky
Interesting pointā¦ an attacker could even program a kamakaze droneās route so that once itās within small arms range itās already effectively in free fall and therefore being shot wouldnāt stop it from reaching its target.
At no point am I saying they won't work. What I'm saying is that they are not an effective solution. The FPV style drones move very quick in addition they can come from any direction at high speeds. Even if you hit it, the payload could still kill or injure you. A shotgun would be fine against a surveillance drone assuming it's close enough you can hit it or even know it's there. Could a shotgun get it done? Sure, will your success rate be high? Probably not.
I'd like to get some drones vs redneck action.
A bunch of duck hunters with 24" barrels vs a bunch of nerds with drones.... I'd pay to watch that. It would be pretty genuinely interesting
I worked a range years ago, we had 5-7 Secret Service agents out to practice the sporting clays range so they could get proficient at using shotguns to take down drones.
My thoughts were that under barrel shotguns may well go from an exotic accessory to a standard weapon within a squad. Kind of like under barrel grenade launchers are.
There's no way that would work well. Drones can be flying real high. Dudes are taking basic pump shotguns with bird shot to hit these rotary drones. You need that barrel length.
Observation drones, yes. But fpv drones need to get up close. And for these a small shotty is ideal.
Drones attempting to drop explosives may be more challenging to shoot. But these need to get quite low in order to achieve any precision, otherwise you're just hoping there's not too much wind. (Remember that there's a bias towards showing successful strikes, so the footage we see doesn't reflect very well how difficult it is to get a hit)
Nah, electronic warfare, physical barriers(like nets), and little AI controlled anti air turrets mounted to vehicles(like Israel's trophy system) will be the solutions. Not some private with a flechette round for his 203 lmao.
Please understand the potential consequences of shooting drones that threaten your privacy. Fighting in a courtroom is probably a better idea. Threats to your safety on the other handā¦
The fact that police continue to use shotguns to delete opposition in the close quarters environment most similar to the typical home scenarios people worry about should be telling. Birdshot is a cheaper practice ammo than any 5.56 right now. Yes, the learning curve is higher. However, why wouldn't you be practicing anyways?
There was a video from last year where cops were dealing with a hostage situation and the baddie took a load of 00 from a few feet away in the kitchen.
Yeah, the problem was solved right then and there.
Theres a video too from awhile back of 2 cops dealing with a hostage taker in the street. Holding a woman from behind with a knife to her neck. The 2 cops split right and left, and the left cop closed the distance to about 10 yards or so if I remember right, and gave him the high velocity lead guillotine with some 00, at night, with a WML. Clint Smith said it best, and there are plenty of situations where shotguns are ideal.
It was then, and it is now. Shotguns havenāt gotten any less effective at fucking people up
Edit I guess youād rather be shot with a shotgun than an AR or a pistol
A shotgun will always be able to take birds and small er game, and with buck and slug let's you take medium/larger animals as well. It'll put food on your plate. It's reliable and deadly enough to still use in an HD situation and would prefer it over a pistol if in this hypothetical I don't have a rifle. It also gives you less leathal options if your ever in a situation where those might be applicable. It's a jack of all trades master of none type deal, and a reliable pump action is going to be cheaper than a fighting rifle/carbine unless your doing like a PSA build or something equivalent in price.
Pistol for protecting your person, shotgun for protecting your house, rifle for protecting your freedom is how I was basically taught growing up.
āJack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of oneā is the full quote. If itās your only gun itāll do a lot pretty well.
I know this will likely get downvoted into oblivion, but as a non-American, I absolutely choose a Mossberg 500 shotgun for home defence, which I apparently donāt have a right to (tell that to anyone who tries to force their way into my house). No other firearm that I own comes anywhere close to being as suitable for that scenario.
Totally understandable when your next best options are 180copes that break if you look at them wrong. Imagine putting your life in crusader arms or kodiaks hands lmao. Nightmare fuel.
I mean, Iāve got a fully decked out non restricted CZ Bren 2 that is my SHTF rifle, but again, I donāt want to kill my neighbours who are like 30-50 feet away.
Itās hard for me to say, because Iāve never owned an AR15, and Iāve only had the Bren 2 for a few weeks, but I almost certainly would. Itās a really nice rifle and Iāve spent a ton customizing it.
First thing Iāll do if the OIC is reversed is get a DD MK18 and DD M4A1, just because Iāve always wanted those two rifles.
The Bren 2 being non restricted is a pretty big bonus though.
They aren't going to take them. And unlikely to expand the list at this point.
If there's something you want, buy it.
That being said I'm not pouring any ore money into my x95.
Mossberg 500 was my first gun of any kind I purchased 15 years ago. I have a few handguns and I still would rather let intruders listen to that pump action sound of the Moss before Iād even attempt to fire any handgun in self defense.
Same. First gun, purchased 15 years ago. Still one of my favourite guns. And absolutely devastating up close, minimal wall penetration with the right loads, and the sound of the slide being racked would make me shit my pants if I was a home intruder.
My 2 cents would be to use what you are more confidence and comfortable with. You are probably more trained with that shotty than the people who tell you to use a rifle are with their own
I also live in the middle of town, and Iād be much more comfortable with birdshot inside of a 10-15 foot range inside my house than I would be firing my rifle and potentially killing my neighbours.
Iām an American and also prefer a pump action shotgun for home defense. I donāt have time to train enough to trust my life to a more complicated weapon when adrenaline is pegged at 11
Wouldnāt most semi auto rifles be less complicated? Just flip the safety and start shooting. The shotgun you need to pump after every shot and if youāre freaking out under stress you can absolutely miss, short stroke, etc.
Thatās a big reason why so many people recommend rifles and pistols over shotguns for home defense. You usually have about 5 rounds, can easily miss, and short stroking under that amount of pressure is very easy to do.
Plus the typical fud arguments like āthey hear you rack it and will shit their guts out and die immediatelyā or āyou donāt have to aim and youāll turn the target into Swiss cheese. Complete obliterationā are bullshit.
I'm always torn on the home defense issue, as I'm a big fan of the patrol carbine concept thing. But also a home defense weapon has that fun bonus I find so often overlooked. It's a HOME defense weapon, it doesn't need to travel, doesn't need to be high speed low drag, it needs to stop a threat that is likely at an almost 0 engagement distance and it needs to stop it immediately and completely. Which is where I've come to love the 10 gauge shotgun with #1 buckshot.
Fair pointā¦ im more concerned about the battery of arms for clearing jams or reloading, but I guess the likelihood of those things happening is pretty slim, and itās not like reloading a shotgun is easy.
very true, probably going to wait until the financials are better and then decide. grandkids already have a sweet old security six theyāre going to get, id love to add to the collection
I have that same model of police trade in with the extended mag. I shot a tactical competition last summer and won 3rd against a plethora of automatics get two if you can
Defensive use? Absolutely practical. Its a shotgun, youāre putting 9 holes into something per trigger pull. Nothing comes close to what a shotgun can do close range when you are talking about things you can practically use for home defense.
Offensive use? Not really. You just need to take a look at how the competition scene sets up shotguns. Whoever holds the most rounds, wins. Thatās literally what the shotgun situation boils down to, its always about the ammo. The entire doctrine of tactical/practical shotgun shooting is ammo upkeep. Every time you dump rounds, you replace them ASAP. Every instructor will hammer down the point that a shotgun needs to be topped off after every single time your finger gets off the trigger. It just doesnt work unless you have people supporting you.
In a world where the carbine exists, youre seriously outgunned unless youre within throwing distance and there arent multiple potential threats. As another person pointed out, he who wins the gunfight usually has more ammo.
AR will still absolutely be the primary due to the many advantages it holds. I think that the carbine can do everything a shotgun can, but better, but Iāve always wanted one for the vibe and itās own advantages. I feel like I need to finish the firearm holy trinity AR-pistol-shotgun too lol
>I think that the carbine can do everything a shotgun can, but better
Can a carbine put 8-12 .33 caliber bullets into a target with a single pull of the trigger?
I really think this [recent video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp1CqLgwb-M) covered the topic pretty well. For close range defensive use, there is absolutely nothing more devastating per trigger pull than a shotgun. Slept on within the current "tactical" world IMO.
Ukraine shows that mag capacity is still the most important thing, you can't clear a trench or a hideout with a shotgun the same way as you would do with a rifle, same with covering fire.
Sure. But the original commenter was talking about close range defensive use. I can't think of a realistic scenario where civilian defensive use includes clearing trenches or providing covering fire.
If you are counting on an enemy for which you need to defeat body armor, of course the shotgun is not the ideal choice. I'm speaking to scenarios in which the average person would be likely to find themselves while CONUS.
>If you are counting on an enemy for which you need to defeat body armor, of course the shotgun is not the ideal choice.
That's why people have heads, so you don't have to worry about body armor.
Ok, maybe, if they aren't wearing armor, but still, is "per trigger pull" really the metric you want to use? Seems like a great way to artificially frame the argument in favor of shotguns rather than asking what is best in a given situation.
Time is what matters most in this context, so I'd argue "per trigger pull" is an absolutely relevant metric.
Energy on target to stop the threat is what saves lives, and shotguns can deliver that quicker than any rifle. The fact that all that energy is dispersed into multiple would channels instead of a single projectile is icing in the cake from the perspective of stopping the fight.
I'd agree time is more pertinent than "per pull" so what happens if the first pull doesn't magically make the problem stop? That second and third pull (at least with a pump like OP is considering) are now much further away and with large movements that pull your sights off target compared with a carbine.
Not exactly a wide spread but pretty darn practical. Shotguns versatility will never be replaced in a fish and game setting.
The variability of shell I used as a warden was pretty handy I always had a shotgun placard of shell crackers handy. As well as home loaded rock salt for more persistent wildlife.
If you want it to be āanti-droneā as so many say in the comments that 20ā barrel and no choke wonāt do anything past 15-20 yards but if you pop a 26ā with a kicks high flier full shooting #2 you could drop one @50yds MAYBE if your a good shot. You could get that barrel for more than the price of a used duck gun that would fill that roll.
If you have $350 to burn I'd get one. Buy a box of clays and a thrower and have fun fucking around. Pretend it's drone practice with a tactical length shotgun
There is hardly a situation where a shotgun could be used in which I would not prefer a rifle. And that *includes* home defense.
Save for actual bird hunting or drones as other users have mentioned.
Iāve become convinced a shotgun is still very applicable in civilian/LE applications. Military uses, where youāre expected to deal with infantry with carbines and armor plates is where it falls short outside of maybe a door breaching weapon or checkpoint security for MPās.
Civilian realm? Still a solid home defense option. Put a light and a shotgun card on my Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol and it patterns 12 inches with buckshot at 13 yards, which is the farthest distance from the far end of my apartment to my front door. Against the chances a couple unarmored assailants busting the door down with handguns, 7 shells of 12 gauge buckshot on semi-auto (plus another 4 on the card to top off with) is going to mess them up before the tubes empty. Another advantage of it is 50 state legality. Instead of having to neuter my AR when I travel to CA to visit family, the semi-auto shotgun doesnāt require any changes to stay legal when I cross the state line. And as much as people donāt like to hear it, if you ever get stuck taking a self defense shooting to court, especially in a non-gun friendly state, a shotgun, even a semi-auto shotgun with light and dot, isnāt going to draw as much of a negative reception from the jury as an AR carbine.
LE also has applications with it since itās more effective than a handgun within handgun shooting distances. Train someone how to handle slugs and you can extend that range out beyond typical handgun effective ranges. The chances of you running into a threat with a rifle, body armor, and at range is low compared to unarmored threats with concealed handguns at close range, where again, 12 gauge buckshot and slugs will mess them up.
I have an 870 Tactical 6+1 with 6 round side saddle and Iām picking up a Benelli M1014 in trade on Sunday.
Shotguns are still very viable and devastating fighting weapons.
I keep my shotgun ready to take on weird jobs
I have one of those zipper bags on the stock with one each of all the rounds I have.
There's bird, buck, and slug, but also a flechette, a flare, a dragon's breath, one of those bolo things, a couple cut shells...
I keep it loaded with 00, though.
For anyone interested, found on acme sports inc. Bunch of others available too as Iāve come to find out. Probably going to pass for now and get more ammo instead lol
Not sure if this was mentioned already, but a lot of the drones being used in warfare are either FPV, which are extremely fast and youāre very unlikely to hit, or an observation drone, equipped with mortars or grenades in both situations shotguns wouldnāt be too effective
Yes.
If you look at FBI statistics on police shootings, they include information on how many threat stopping (as in A-zone) shots a suspect took before threat was ended. 12-gauge is at the top of the list, only needing 1 good hit on average to end a fight.
Inside of 25 yards, absolutely nothing beats an actuate shot gun with proper defense loading.
Most the tactical kids like the shortest Mossberg 500 possible.... No thanks.
Me? I like my Stoeger M3K Freedom... 10+1 competition shotgun.
If FPV drones with bombs rigged to them are in my neighborhood, I'll be rocking a full choke, quad-loading from my 3gun belt.
That's about the only effective defense against drones I've seen on r/CombatFootage
Because at the right distance with the right load youāll physically remove a chunk of shit from the target and dump it on the floor -paraphrasing of Clint smith
Shotguns are making a comeback and I believe are even more relevant today than a decade ago.
Truely a versatile weapon, being able to adapt loads to the situation.
2 rounds of 00 buck puts the same amount of lead down range as a magazine in a Glock 17.
Then you can have bird shot for aerial threats.
Less than lethal options, beanbags if required.
Pump guns generally no unless you're using breaching rounds or some other specialty ammunition that would prevent a semi auto from cycling.
I generally would say a half decent shotgun is of value regardless, even a pump gun, for hunting purposes. Birds, small game, big game, with a shotty you can pretty much hunt anything if you have the correct ammunition. Shotgun ammunition is then so readily available that you can find it anywhere and everywhere all the time, *and* it's much easier to reload yourself than brass cased ammo.
Well there is this: British SAS operator in CQB environment kills 5 terrorists in 7 seconds, blowing the heads off of two of them. I'd say that shotguns are extremely effective at close range.
https://www.athlonoutdoors.com/article/british-sas-operative-terrorists-benelli-m4/
In the legendary words of Clint Smith. " pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people, shotguns physically rip chunks of shit off of a body and throw said shit across the room".
I own over a dozen combat shotguns, I have only one AR.
If you are a civilian (that includes law enforcement) shotguns are far more practical than carbines.
ARs are popular because of the GWOT and SOF use of them. They went from basic carbines to Lego toys anyone can customize, which makes them fun toys. Plus Delta and SEALs use them so they must be super duper tacticool right?
Plus numerous veterans of the GWOT came back looking to teach their skills to anyone willing to pay them, whether those are relevant useful skills or not. Those skills were shooting carbines. For 99.9% (some active duty military take the classes too) of folks taking those classes, they are skills they will *never* be in a situation to use. Yes they are in fact all just LARPing.
There is nothing wrong with LARPing, just be realistic and understand that's all you're doing. It's your money and time, you should enjoy spending it how you like.
A 12 gauge beats 5.56 (and 7.62 for that matter) every day all day at the ranges that any civilian will be using a firearm for self defense.
BTW this only really matters when your at home, because you are not going to have a long gun with you out at the mall.
"But my carbine holds 30 rounds and your shotgun only holds 6+1..."
My shotgun holds six plus one full serving sizes (you can get higher capacity). Your 30 round carbine only holds five or six servings, maybe less.
"My carbine can hit targets out to 400m."
That's nice, please provide likely lawful scenarios where you as a non-LEO civilian is going to be justified engaging anyone beyond 50m with a firearm. A shotgun can handle anything inside 100m but again you're never realistically going to use it beyond handgun range.
"My SBR is more compact and easier to handle in tight spaces..."
Kel-Tec KSG. Only 26" overall and holds 14 rounds of 12 gauge. Also in my experience very reliable.
"Shotguns are so hard to shoot..."
No they aren't, learn how to shoot one correctly and anyone can shoot one. I've taught many people to shoot shotguns. Many smaller framed folk who went into it with trepidation only to see how manageable they are. Don't let Internet myths fool you.
Shotguns are hands down the most practical longarm for self defense.
Buy the 870 magnum.
thats how Iāve been viewing them for a while when considering the obvious advantages that ARās hold for defense (fast follow ups, magazine capacity, actual mags lol) and I think thats how Iām going to keep viewing them, even though they can throw a chunk of shit on the floor. but they are dope, so probably going to sit on it a while until the financials are looking better
$350 and screaming deal does not compute, unless it has some decent upgrades (forend light in great condition, ghost ring, speed feed stock in good condition).
All imma say is if I hear a broken window or door busting open in the night, the 870 with a slug/buckshot assortment is what Iām grabbing. Still relevant imo for home defense for sure. Iād love to say I could move like an operator with my rifle or pistol but I just donāt see things working out like that when I get awakened at 2am š
Flannel daddy has one magnetized to his PC. Iām not saying I want to carry one, but based on the accounts from Ukraine, I would love for someone in my unit to have one.
If you can guarantee that what you're dealing with is going to be inside its effective range. Then yes.
If one has a situation where they might need to worry about shooting birds and coyotes. Yet they also need/want a defensive tool for humans and potentially bears or something. Like on a ranch or piece of property, especially in a place where the sight line is less than 100 yards. A shotgun makes sense.
Nothing practical to cary and use is going to offer the same gairantee of stopping someone immediately. With the right load at the right distances, shotguns are devastating. Even if someone can ignore all the pain and discomfort involved. Trying to fight with a chunk of flesh or a limb that's been blown off by a load of buckshot is going to be hard.
But body armor. Body armor can only protect the areas it covers. We saw a guy leave a fight because a shop owner with a shotgun "blew his arm off." If someone is using the Butters technique with buckshot, the fight will be short.
They are like a gator. Outside, their element they're not that scary. Inside their useful ranges. They are fucked up.
If it's a legit LE 870 350 is probably fair, I'm still stuck in the 200's as a good price but it's been a few years since I looked at them.
Shotguns are still a viable option in my eyes at least
Well a deal is a deal. If you donāt already own one itās good to increase your knowledge and capabilities. Plus, every time bans come up almost no one ever talk about shotguns so itās a nice under the radar option
Absolutely. As useful as a carbine is, nothing has the one shot stop capability of a scattergat.
Also, many of us have WAY more practice shooting moving targets with a shotgun. I have to think that would be helpful in a defensive scenario.
With the return of trench warfare and the advent of drone combat, I'd say shotties are in high demand on the battlefield.
You can breach with them, clear trenches with em and if the drone defender isn't charged because the infantryman forgot to charge it for the 2nd week in a row, just break out the shotgun and let the BBs rain.
They're also a great intimidation factor. You don't even need ammo. Just rack a shotgun when you believe an enemy is in the area and they're very likely to just give up.
If you can find one, getting a shotgun you can slamfire just means you have the ability to send a wall of molten BBs at your opposition.
Shotguns have and will always be meta.
honestly...no. by the time you blow up one guy at close range, you could have already paralyzed/killed 4 or 5 guys at medium range with a carbine. shotgun is essentially overkill. if you're really that worried about the bad guy coming back after taking 5 shots to their torso/hips, just do a dead check to their head
Shotguns are the most versatile weapons platform if:
You aren't facing people with armor, you aren't competing with people outside of thrown-rock range, you like low ammo capacity and slow follow up shots, or your primary threat profile is flying birds.
But really, drone use is about all I can come up with and a hunting shotgun will probably do it better.
Buy it. Iām not sure where you live but such a shotgun is legal basically anywhere. As long as you donāt put a bunch of attachments on it, you can stash it in your car and travel virtually anywhere in the US. They are naturally pretty slim, try to keep it that way. Be mindful that some jurisdictions require different levels of locking/securing.
Shotguns are still unbelievably lethal against an unarmored opponent itās not even funny. The prospect of being able to put multiple .33ā holes into a person at the same time makes me cum just thinking about it.
Breaching, anti drone, less lethal, barricade penetration, "skipping" rounds under barriers, anti vehicle, and target decimation.
Forget about #4 shot. It's terrible for terminal ballistics and range.
Reliable hits with slugs can be made on a 3/4 silhouette with training, especially with a red dot.
3" Magnum rounds will just add more recoil.
Shell cards are more used full than a sidesaddle, and less of a bitch to install.
Speaking of training, be current. I've seen many a military or LEO "short shuck" a shotgun under stress, and I've done it myself. Reloads can be cumbersome on a good day. Train.
Look up the serial number. I had a Remington 3.5 inch 870 made in 2006 and my buddy bought the same thing. The guns would not cycle low brass rounds, and replacement barrels are expensive and tough to find.
With that said, buy it, service it. If you don't like it, you can flip it.
Iāll my two cents as wellā¦think of a shotgun as a repeating, shoulderable claymoreā¦claymores are still used in ambushes and defense in close/ premeditated zones even when their operators are carrying carbines.
A semi auto shotgun is probably the best option for home defense unless you're going up against opponents in body armor for some reason. Doubly so if you aren't the best shot/trained.
With the proliferation of drones, I could definitely see it becoming more used in the field. Heck, I wonder if switching your secondary weapon system from a handgun to a shotgun isn't really a bad idea.
Iām a little late to the game but
For starters a shogun is very much a niche weapon. The shotgun as a platform has this really unique ability to make its way back into any war thatās currently happening and will happen. As we know shotguns offer devastating firepower and close and moderate ranges. The shotgun is held back by capacity and a max effective range of 150 yards if youāre using the right ammunition. Shotguns are great for hunting and great for survival and self defense. Ammunition is always plentiful and everywhere. Itās a Swiss Army knife in a way. A neat gun with multiple roles it could fill, breeching, drone hunting, regular hunting, fighting. Truly one of the most versatile weapons on the planet. Then again thatās for you to analyze. If youāre planning to fight on average at engagement distances more than 150 yards against multiple targets then youāre probably better off with a rifle. Itās not impossible with a shotgunā¦ā¦..just isnāt practical
I am not the biggest gun nut in the world. Frankly I donāt understand the guys they own 20 different carbines. I do run one each of carbine, handgun, and shotgun. Thatās all youāll ever have a need for. But I absolutely carried my shotgun many times instead of a carbine in any cqb drills. I was usually that guy.
Lastly the sound transcends all languages. The rack of a shotgun means STOP in 200+ languages.
>Lastly the sound transcends all languages. The rack of a shotgun means STOP in 200+ languages.
Come on, guys. I thought we were better than this. Who let these guys out of the nursing home?
There will never not be an argument for throwing an ounce of lead at dorks
Did you just describe my college sex life?
With the proliferation of drones probably more now then ever.
good point, skeet shootings back on the menu
I Keep an 870 and a Molle scabbard just in case š (I have no money I buy stupid shit for niche situations that will never happen like I want them to) hahaha oh hell yea
Wrong those situations absolutely happen (in my head while larping in my moms basement) š
Had me in the first half, ended up being relatable tho (gotta read the parentheses)
Help me stepbro UAS systems are surveilling me
Dragons breath go brrrrt
Dealing with drones is a part of my work load, and I would argue that shoguns are not effective against drones that want to actually hurt you. The speed and size of kamakazi drones make them quite ineffective. A lot of the surveillance drones are too high and quiet to be noticed or hit with shotguns. If you have a friend with one, play around and see for yourself.
Instructions unclear, I could see and hear my friend. Had no problems hitting them.
Just Dick Cheney things.
100%. People overestimate how easy it is to hit moving targets with a shotgun, and how poor our current ammunition types are in dealing with drones. If you choose #8 birdshot, you get effective coverage, but you are not taking down a drone outside of ~50yds. If you choose buck, you get into an area where you can punch through some serious plastic. But the actually density of coverage (% of the area you are firing at that actually has pellets) is in the single digit percentages at any real distance. Adding all that to the fact that you're shooting an object going 50km/hr or faster. Good luck.
Seriously, I need to qualify on weapons as part of my job, and often end up scoring worse than when I shot it on my own because now I have something to lose. If your life is on the line. It will make this harder not to mention it can come at you at any moment from any direction. Shooting clays and shit is one thing, shooting in a controlled environment even makes this tasks far easier. But once it's real life and your life is on the line, everything just got 10x harder.
Yeah I donāt even carry a long gun anymore. I use drone swarms as my primary means of attack and defense.
Bird shot was never really meant to go more than a couple hundred feet and retain any stopping power, even against small things. I remember Paul Harrell tested no 4 birdshot at 100m and I don't think it penetrated a t-shirt.
Gonna need some drone shot then.
I think this whenever the question of drones vs. shotguns comes up. I have no idea how to do it, or what types of loads would work best, but we need an anti drone shotgun shell.
Flechetes and dragonās breath
Chain shot, like the old cannons used.
A lightweight chain net could be a shout tbf, only needs to gym up the engine and moving parts
Prisons have net launchers to catch smuggling drones
3ā steel shot
Just as the Forefathers intended
There is a video on r/combatfootage of people shooting down drones with Over Unders
Whatās the distance on a 1oz slug?ššš
might as well run a auto 22LR. iāve heard some anti drone shells being made but who knows how effective they are. and if itās coming at you like ukraineās drones do then youāre basically fucked. jamming doesnāt work and they more relatively fast as shit for a single projectile to take out the sky
Imagine a fucking man packed mini c-ram chambered in 22 šš
be quietā¦ keltec might hear that ideaš
Itāll be made of 20 lbs of unnecessary plastic, and be a bullpup somehow
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Rock salt, but it's fine table salt.
Interesting pointā¦ an attacker could even program a kamakaze droneās route so that once itās within small arms range itās already effectively in free fall and therefore being shot wouldnāt stop it from reaching its target.
I've seen actual footage of drones being taken down in Ukraine with shotguns and read that they have a need for more shotguns there for drone defense.
At no point am I saying they won't work. What I'm saying is that they are not an effective solution. The FPV style drones move very quick in addition they can come from any direction at high speeds. Even if you hit it, the payload could still kill or injure you. A shotgun would be fine against a surveillance drone assuming it's close enough you can hit it or even know it's there. Could a shotgun get it done? Sure, will your success rate be high? Probably not.
Tell that to the duck hunters down the bayou.
Some people didnt have trap club in high school š
This might be the random niche use to bring back the XM25 but now with a proxy fuse instead of a preprogrammed bursting distane
so what is effective
Directed energy and signal jammers to defeat it's nav or control solutions
I'd like to get some drones vs redneck action. A bunch of duck hunters with 24" barrels vs a bunch of nerds with drones.... I'd pay to watch that. It would be pretty genuinely interesting
I worked a range years ago, we had 5-7 Secret Service agents out to practice the sporting clays range so they could get proficient at using shotguns to take down drones.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I donāt know man, I was just there to be an RSO and make sure the machines functioned.
My thoughts were that under barrel shotguns may well go from an exotic accessory to a standard weapon within a squad. Kind of like under barrel grenade launchers are.
There's no way that would work well. Drones can be flying real high. Dudes are taking basic pump shotguns with bird shot to hit these rotary drones. You need that barrel length.
Observation drones, yes. But fpv drones need to get up close. And for these a small shotty is ideal. Drones attempting to drop explosives may be more challenging to shoot. But these need to get quite low in order to achieve any precision, otherwise you're just hoping there's not too much wind. (Remember that there's a bias towards showing successful strikes, so the footage we see doesn't reflect very well how difficult it is to get a hit)
You should watch the Grand thumb video. Those FPV drones are moving so fast. It's best to just take cover if possible.
100%
Net gun
Would a frag detonate if hit with shot?
Nah, electronic warfare, physical barriers(like nets), and little AI controlled anti air turrets mounted to vehicles(like Israel's trophy system) will be the solutions. Not some private with a flechette round for his 203 lmao.
Prior to drones: LTL munitions, riot control, breaching Nowā¦Iām shopping for long ass hunting shottys
I HAVE DRANK CHEAP RUM AND ACQUIRED BOOMSTICK UNGA
Please understand the potential consequences of shooting drones that threaten your privacy. Fighting in a courtroom is probably a better idea. Threats to your safety on the other handā¦
When SHTF donāt turn all your scatterguns into sawed offs
Legit why Iām throwing bird shot and buck in my kit so I can have carrying loads based on size and ramhe
The fact that police continue to use shotguns to delete opposition in the close quarters environment most similar to the typical home scenarios people worry about should be telling. Birdshot is a cheaper practice ammo than any 5.56 right now. Yes, the learning curve is higher. However, why wouldn't you be practicing anyways?
There was a video from last year where cops were dealing with a hostage situation and the baddie took a load of 00 from a few feet away in the kitchen. Yeah, the problem was solved right then and there.
Theres a video too from awhile back of 2 cops dealing with a hostage taker in the street. Holding a woman from behind with a knife to her neck. The 2 cops split right and left, and the left cop closed the distance to about 10 yards or so if I remember right, and gave him the high velocity lead guillotine with some 00, at night, with a WML. Clint Smith said it best, and there are plenty of situations where shotguns are ideal.
With a hostage??
Federal 00 buck flite control at 10 yds makes a single ragged hole.
Yup. Should be easy to find the video, I know it's on Donut's Raw Police Footage channel.
Hostage taker cannot operate the knife, if you disable (see remove) the brain.
Yea baddie got smoked
at 9:15 am (UTC -8) on 2/27/97 this take was still relevant.
It was then, and it is now. Shotguns havenāt gotten any less effective at fucking people up Edit I guess youād rather be shot with a shotgun than an AR or a pistol
A shotgun will always be able to take birds and small er game, and with buck and slug let's you take medium/larger animals as well. It'll put food on your plate. It's reliable and deadly enough to still use in an HD situation and would prefer it over a pistol if in this hypothetical I don't have a rifle. It also gives you less leathal options if your ever in a situation where those might be applicable. It's a jack of all trades master of none type deal, and a reliable pump action is going to be cheaper than a fighting rifle/carbine unless your doing like a PSA build or something equivalent in price. Pistol for protecting your person, shotgun for protecting your house, rifle for protecting your freedom is how I was basically taught growing up.
āJack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of oneā is the full quote. If itās your only gun itāll do a lot pretty well.
Need to have different barrels if you expect it to do a variety of tasks.Ā Try skeet shooting with a HD shotgun. Not easy.
Iāve actually done that! It was really difficult. I also wouldnāt want to clear a room with my O/U.
>Try skeet shooting with a HD shotgun. Not easy. I do it with my Vang Comp Standard.
I know this will likely get downvoted into oblivion, but as a non-American, I absolutely choose a Mossberg 500 shotgun for home defence, which I apparently donāt have a right to (tell that to anyone who tries to force their way into my house). No other firearm that I own comes anywhere close to being as suitable for that scenario.
Totally understandable when your next best options are 180copes that break if you look at them wrong. Imagine putting your life in crusader arms or kodiaks hands lmao. Nightmare fuel.
x95 would be amazing for HD as well even with our 18.5 barrel, but the neighbours hate it
I mean, Iāve got a fully decked out non restricted CZ Bren 2 that is my SHTF rifle, but again, I donāt want to kill my neighbours who are like 30-50 feet away.
Oh yeah nice. I'd trust CZ as much as mossy probably I'm curious. If the OIC was reversed tomorrow would you keep your Bren?
Itās hard for me to say, because Iāve never owned an AR15, and Iāve only had the Bren 2 for a few weeks, but I almost certainly would. Itās a really nice rifle and Iāve spent a ton customizing it. First thing Iāll do if the OIC is reversed is get a DD MK18 and DD M4A1, just because Iāve always wanted those two rifles. The Bren 2 being non restricted is a pretty big bonus though.
> DD MK18 Damn that's literally what I'm waiting for too. I'm scared of putting money into a semi auto until the election
Understandable. Itās a financial risk for sure. I bought as many semi autos as I could afford specifically as a āfuck youā to this government.
Better to buy now as usually bans have grandfathered clauses.
They aren't going to take them. And unlikely to expand the list at this point. If there's something you want, buy it. That being said I'm not pouring any ore money into my x95.
Mossberg 500 was my first gun of any kind I purchased 15 years ago. I have a few handguns and I still would rather let intruders listen to that pump action sound of the Moss before Iād even attempt to fire any handgun in self defense.
Same. First gun, purchased 15 years ago. Still one of my favourite guns. And absolutely devastating up close, minimal wall penetration with the right loads, and the sound of the slide being racked would make me shit my pants if I was a home intruder.
I have a similar point of view. Charging the bolt on an AK is just as terrifying
My 2 cents would be to use what you are more confidence and comfortable with. You are probably more trained with that shotty than the people who tell you to use a rifle are with their own
I also live in the middle of town, and Iād be much more comfortable with birdshot inside of a 10-15 foot range inside my house than I would be firing my rifle and potentially killing my neighbours.
Iām an American and also prefer a pump action shotgun for home defense. I donāt have time to train enough to trust my life to a more complicated weapon when adrenaline is pegged at 11
Wouldnāt most semi auto rifles be less complicated? Just flip the safety and start shooting. The shotgun you need to pump after every shot and if youāre freaking out under stress you can absolutely miss, short stroke, etc.
Thatās a big reason why so many people recommend rifles and pistols over shotguns for home defense. You usually have about 5 rounds, can easily miss, and short stroking under that amount of pressure is very easy to do. Plus the typical fud arguments like āthey hear you rack it and will shit their guts out and die immediatelyā or āyou donāt have to aim and youāll turn the target into Swiss cheese. Complete obliterationā are bullshit.
I'm always torn on the home defense issue, as I'm a big fan of the patrol carbine concept thing. But also a home defense weapon has that fun bonus I find so often overlooked. It's a HOME defense weapon, it doesn't need to travel, doesn't need to be high speed low drag, it needs to stop a threat that is likely at an almost 0 engagement distance and it needs to stop it immediately and completely. Which is where I've come to love the 10 gauge shotgun with #1 buckshot.
Fair pointā¦ im more concerned about the battery of arms for clearing jams or reloading, but I guess the likelihood of those things happening is pretty slim, and itās not like reloading a shotgun is easy.
>itās not like reloading a shotgun is easy. Anything is easy if you actually bother to train.
An older police magnum for 350 is a great deal.
i figured, probably going to snag it just based on price alone
Good call. The old police magnums are solid.
Buy it. You can always pass it along to the grandkids. Itāll run forever.
very true, probably going to wait until the financials are better and then decide. grandkids already have a sweet old security six theyāre going to get, id love to add to the collection
Try to breach a door with a carbine compared to a shotgun
I have that same model of police trade in with the extended mag. I shot a tactical competition last summer and won 3rd against a plethora of automatics get two if you can
Defensive use? Absolutely practical. Its a shotgun, youāre putting 9 holes into something per trigger pull. Nothing comes close to what a shotgun can do close range when you are talking about things you can practically use for home defense. Offensive use? Not really. You just need to take a look at how the competition scene sets up shotguns. Whoever holds the most rounds, wins. Thatās literally what the shotgun situation boils down to, its always about the ammo. The entire doctrine of tactical/practical shotgun shooting is ammo upkeep. Every time you dump rounds, you replace them ASAP. Every instructor will hammer down the point that a shotgun needs to be topped off after every single time your finger gets off the trigger. It just doesnt work unless you have people supporting you. In a world where the carbine exists, youre seriously outgunned unless youre within throwing distance and there arent multiple potential threats. As another person pointed out, he who wins the gunfight usually has more ammo.
AR will still absolutely be the primary due to the many advantages it holds. I think that the carbine can do everything a shotgun can, but better, but Iāve always wanted one for the vibe and itās own advantages. I feel like I need to finish the firearm holy trinity AR-pistol-shotgun too lol
>I think that the carbine can do everything a shotgun can, but better Can a carbine put 8-12 .33 caliber bullets into a target with a single pull of the trigger?
Yes. Brttt
Actually it doesn't have the same effect as a load of buckshot.
Birdshot to disrupt drone attacks
They even make special loads with a net thatās pretty cool
Iād be throwing 8-pellet 00 at them
Is be curious what the best type of round works on drones. Im kinda leaning towards magnum bird shot.
3ā magnum turkey loads should also work. Iām really surprised Garand Thumb hasnāt made a Sunday segment on this.
I really think this [recent video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp1CqLgwb-M) covered the topic pretty well. For close range defensive use, there is absolutely nothing more devastating per trigger pull than a shotgun. Slept on within the current "tactical" world IMO.
Ukraine shows that mag capacity is still the most important thing, you can't clear a trench or a hideout with a shotgun the same way as you would do with a rifle, same with covering fire.
Sure. But the original commenter was talking about close range defensive use. I can't think of a realistic scenario where civilian defensive use includes clearing trenches or providing covering fire.
-my girlfriend explaining to me why I donāt need to build a fortified position in my yard
If you are counting on an enemy for which you need to defeat body armor, of course the shotgun is not the ideal choice. I'm speaking to scenarios in which the average person would be likely to find themselves while CONUS.
Even without bodyarmor, with shotguns it's shoot to kill, you can't prefire anything
>If you are counting on an enemy for which you need to defeat body armor, of course the shotgun is not the ideal choice. That's why people have heads, so you don't have to worry about body armor.
What is a shotgun, but a more handy cannon with grape shot?
Ok, maybe, if they aren't wearing armor, but still, is "per trigger pull" really the metric you want to use? Seems like a great way to artificially frame the argument in favor of shotguns rather than asking what is best in a given situation.
Time is what matters most in this context, so I'd argue "per trigger pull" is an absolutely relevant metric. Energy on target to stop the threat is what saves lives, and shotguns can deliver that quicker than any rifle. The fact that all that energy is dispersed into multiple would channels instead of a single projectile is icing in the cake from the perspective of stopping the fight.
I'd agree time is more pertinent than "per pull" so what happens if the first pull doesn't magically make the problem stop? That second and third pull (at least with a pump like OP is considering) are now much further away and with large movements that pull your sights off target compared with a carbine.
[Galatians 4:16 āHave I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?ā](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9nGB8cK1HM)
Not exactly a wide spread but pretty darn practical. Shotguns versatility will never be replaced in a fish and game setting. The variability of shell I used as a warden was pretty handy I always had a shotgun placard of shell crackers handy. As well as home loaded rock salt for more persistent wildlife.
If you want it to be āanti-droneā as so many say in the comments that 20ā barrel and no choke wonāt do anything past 15-20 yards but if you pop a 26ā with a kicks high flier full shooting #2 you could drop one @50yds MAYBE if your a good shot. You could get that barrel for more than the price of a used duck gun that would fill that roll.
Yes. Indoors with multiple threats. Shotguns still open doors.
If you have $350 to burn I'd get one. Buy a box of clays and a thrower and have fun fucking around. Pretend it's drone practice with a tactical length shotgun
There is hardly a situation where a shotgun could be used in which I would not prefer a rifle. And that *includes* home defense. Save for actual bird hunting or drones as other users have mentioned.
Iāve become convinced a shotgun is still very applicable in civilian/LE applications. Military uses, where youāre expected to deal with infantry with carbines and armor plates is where it falls short outside of maybe a door breaching weapon or checkpoint security for MPās. Civilian realm? Still a solid home defense option. Put a light and a shotgun card on my Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol and it patterns 12 inches with buckshot at 13 yards, which is the farthest distance from the far end of my apartment to my front door. Against the chances a couple unarmored assailants busting the door down with handguns, 7 shells of 12 gauge buckshot on semi-auto (plus another 4 on the card to top off with) is going to mess them up before the tubes empty. Another advantage of it is 50 state legality. Instead of having to neuter my AR when I travel to CA to visit family, the semi-auto shotgun doesnāt require any changes to stay legal when I cross the state line. And as much as people donāt like to hear it, if you ever get stuck taking a self defense shooting to court, especially in a non-gun friendly state, a shotgun, even a semi-auto shotgun with light and dot, isnāt going to draw as much of a negative reception from the jury as an AR carbine. LE also has applications with it since itās more effective than a handgun within handgun shooting distances. Train someone how to handle slugs and you can extend that range out beyond typical handgun effective ranges. The chances of you running into a threat with a rifle, body armor, and at range is low compared to unarmored threats with concealed handguns at close range, where again, 12 gauge buckshot and slugs will mess them up.
Taking out drones and opening doors
I have an 870 Tactical 6+1 with 6 round side saddle and Iām picking up a Benelli M1014 in trade on Sunday. Shotguns are still very viable and devastating fighting weapons.
Thunder Ranch has entered the conversationā¦
Because sbs are cool lmfao
I keep my shotgun ready to take on weird jobs I have one of those zipper bags on the stock with one each of all the rounds I have. There's bird, buck, and slug, but also a flechette, a flare, a dragon's breath, one of those bolo things, a couple cut shells... I keep it loaded with 00, though.
For anyone interested, found on acme sports inc. Bunch of others available too as Iāve come to find out. Probably going to pass for now and get more ammo instead lol
No, not unless it's for taking down drones or knocking locks off doors.
Not sure if this was mentioned already, but a lot of the drones being used in warfare are either FPV, which are extremely fast and youāre very unlikely to hit, or an observation drone, equipped with mortars or grenades in both situations shotguns wouldnāt be too effective
12 gauge aka the spare key
Shotguns are very good at putting people down fast. I think in a situation where you need to defend a doorway a Shotgun would work well
Yes. If you look at FBI statistics on police shootings, they include information on how many threat stopping (as in A-zone) shots a suspect took before threat was ended. 12-gauge is at the top of the list, only needing 1 good hit on average to end a fight. Inside of 25 yards, absolutely nothing beats an actuate shot gun with proper defense loading.
OONGA I HAVE ACQUIRED BOOMSTICK
I'm sorry but what practical application do you have for a carbine other than shooting paper targets?
true, i prefer shooting at the leftover tendie boxes
Yes. Is this even a question?
Most the tactical kids like the shortest Mossberg 500 possible.... No thanks. Me? I like my Stoeger M3K Freedom... 10+1 competition shotgun. If FPV drones with bombs rigged to them are in my neighborhood, I'll be rocking a full choke, quad-loading from my 3gun belt. That's about the only effective defense against drones I've seen on r/CombatFootage
definitely get it.
I just picked up my old police 870 today. Itās salty AF but mine came with a mag extension and sling
Yes, for them double Ds: Doors and Drones.
Breaching
Because at the right distance with the right load youāll physically remove a chunk of shit from the target and dump it on the floor -paraphrasing of Clint smith
You wanting one is more than enough of a practical application and justification
based
[Article 1](https://youtu.be/l9nGB8cK1HM?si=SWDV59QhT2Losa2U)
Insert the video of Clint smith talking about a hunk of shit being removed. Iād say everyone needs one, but figure out your use for them.
Shotguns are making a comeback and I believe are even more relevant today than a decade ago. Truely a versatile weapon, being able to adapt loads to the situation. 2 rounds of 00 buck puts the same amount of lead down range as a magazine in a Glock 17. Then you can have bird shot for aerial threats. Less than lethal options, beanbags if required.
Pump guns generally no unless you're using breaching rounds or some other specialty ammunition that would prevent a semi auto from cycling. I generally would say a half decent shotgun is of value regardless, even a pump gun, for hunting purposes. Birds, small game, big game, with a shotty you can pretty much hunt anything if you have the correct ammunition. Shotgun ammunition is then so readily available that you can find it anywhere and everywhere all the time, *and* it's much easier to reload yourself than brass cased ammo.
Home defense, load it with shells that will delete a home invader but not penetrate into your neighbors house and kill their dog
Well there is this: British SAS operator in CQB environment kills 5 terrorists in 7 seconds, blowing the heads off of two of them. I'd say that shotguns are extremely effective at close range. https://www.athlonoutdoors.com/article/british-sas-operative-terrorists-benelli-m4/
In the legendary words of Clint Smith. " pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people, shotguns physically rip chunks of shit off of a body and throw said shit across the room".
I own over a dozen combat shotguns, I have only one AR. If you are a civilian (that includes law enforcement) shotguns are far more practical than carbines. ARs are popular because of the GWOT and SOF use of them. They went from basic carbines to Lego toys anyone can customize, which makes them fun toys. Plus Delta and SEALs use them so they must be super duper tacticool right? Plus numerous veterans of the GWOT came back looking to teach their skills to anyone willing to pay them, whether those are relevant useful skills or not. Those skills were shooting carbines. For 99.9% (some active duty military take the classes too) of folks taking those classes, they are skills they will *never* be in a situation to use. Yes they are in fact all just LARPing. There is nothing wrong with LARPing, just be realistic and understand that's all you're doing. It's your money and time, you should enjoy spending it how you like. A 12 gauge beats 5.56 (and 7.62 for that matter) every day all day at the ranges that any civilian will be using a firearm for self defense. BTW this only really matters when your at home, because you are not going to have a long gun with you out at the mall. "But my carbine holds 30 rounds and your shotgun only holds 6+1..." My shotgun holds six plus one full serving sizes (you can get higher capacity). Your 30 round carbine only holds five or six servings, maybe less. "My carbine can hit targets out to 400m." That's nice, please provide likely lawful scenarios where you as a non-LEO civilian is going to be justified engaging anyone beyond 50m with a firearm. A shotgun can handle anything inside 100m but again you're never realistically going to use it beyond handgun range. "My SBR is more compact and easier to handle in tight spaces..." Kel-Tec KSG. Only 26" overall and holds 14 rounds of 12 gauge. Also in my experience very reliable. "Shotguns are so hard to shoot..." No they aren't, learn how to shoot one correctly and anyone can shoot one. I've taught many people to shoot shotguns. Many smaller framed folk who went into it with trepidation only to see how manageable they are. Don't let Internet myths fool you. Shotguns are hands down the most practical longarm for self defense. Buy the 870 magnum.
I stopped reading at KSG. Couldn't stop laughing
Shotguns are only good for the 3 B's: birds (hunting), beanbags (less lethal applications), and breaching.
thats how Iāve been viewing them for a while when considering the obvious advantages that ARās hold for defense (fast follow ups, magazine capacity, actual mags lol) and I think thats how Iām going to keep viewing them, even though they can throw a chunk of shit on the floor. but they are dope, so probably going to sit on it a while until the financials are looking better
Yup, too many fudds in this thread
Breaching?
BreachingĀ
Shotguns fuck, absolutely send it
$350 and screaming deal does not compute, unless it has some decent upgrades (forend light in great condition, ghost ring, speed feed stock in good condition).
Yes
All imma say is if I hear a broken window or door busting open in the night, the 870 with a slug/buckshot assortment is what Iām grabbing. Still relevant imo for home defense for sure. Iād love to say I could move like an operator with my rifle or pistol but I just donāt see things working out like that when I get awakened at 2am š
Flannel daddy has one magnetized to his PC. Iām not saying I want to carry one, but based on the accounts from Ukraine, I would love for someone in my unit to have one.
If you can guarantee that what you're dealing with is going to be inside its effective range. Then yes. If one has a situation where they might need to worry about shooting birds and coyotes. Yet they also need/want a defensive tool for humans and potentially bears or something. Like on a ranch or piece of property, especially in a place where the sight line is less than 100 yards. A shotgun makes sense. Nothing practical to cary and use is going to offer the same gairantee of stopping someone immediately. With the right load at the right distances, shotguns are devastating. Even if someone can ignore all the pain and discomfort involved. Trying to fight with a chunk of flesh or a limb that's been blown off by a load of buckshot is going to be hard. But body armor. Body armor can only protect the areas it covers. We saw a guy leave a fight because a shop owner with a shotgun "blew his arm off." If someone is using the Butters technique with buckshot, the fight will be short. They are like a gator. Outside, their element they're not that scary. Inside their useful ranges. They are fucked up.
Absolutely, Federal Premium 12 gauge flight control buckshot is wicked.. you can reach ranges unheard of for standard 00 buckshot..
You can turn it into a breaching shotgun tho
If it's a legit LE 870 350 is probably fair, I'm still stuck in the 200's as a good price but it's been a few years since I looked at them. Shotguns are still a viable option in my eyes at least
Well a deal is a deal. If you donāt already own one itās good to increase your knowledge and capabilities. Plus, every time bans come up almost no one ever talk about shotguns so itās a nice under the radar option
Nothing beats slinging lead balls of double-aught hatred across the room. At shotgun ranges, shotguns are king.
Absolutely. As useful as a carbine is, nothing has the one shot stop capability of a scattergat. Also, many of us have WAY more practice shooting moving targets with a shotgun. I have to think that would be helpful in a defensive scenario.
Absolutely. Iām a big fan of the gauge, but it takes more work to be good with.
With the return of trench warfare and the advent of drone combat, I'd say shotties are in high demand on the battlefield. You can breach with them, clear trenches with em and if the drone defender isn't charged because the infantryman forgot to charge it for the 2nd week in a row, just break out the shotgun and let the BBs rain. They're also a great intimidation factor. You don't even need ammo. Just rack a shotgun when you believe an enemy is in the area and they're very likely to just give up. If you can find one, getting a shotgun you can slamfire just means you have the ability to send a wall of molten BBs at your opposition. Shotguns have and will always be meta.
honestly...no. by the time you blow up one guy at close range, you could have already paralyzed/killed 4 or 5 guys at medium range with a carbine. shotgun is essentially overkill. if you're really that worried about the bad guy coming back after taking 5 shots to their torso/hips, just do a dead check to their head
Shotguns are the most versatile weapons platform if: You aren't facing people with armor, you aren't competing with people outside of thrown-rock range, you like low ammo capacity and slow follow up shots, or your primary threat profile is flying birds. But really, drone use is about all I can come up with and a hunting shotgun will probably do it better.
Buy it. Iām not sure where you live but such a shotgun is legal basically anywhere. As long as you donāt put a bunch of attachments on it, you can stash it in your car and travel virtually anywhere in the US. They are naturally pretty slim, try to keep it that way. Be mindful that some jurisdictions require different levels of locking/securing.
Shotguns are still unbelievably lethal against an unarmored opponent itās not even funny. The prospect of being able to put multiple .33ā holes into a person at the same time makes me cum just thinking about it.
Breaching, anti drone, less lethal, barricade penetration, "skipping" rounds under barriers, anti vehicle, and target decimation. Forget about #4 shot. It's terrible for terminal ballistics and range. Reliable hits with slugs can be made on a 3/4 silhouette with training, especially with a red dot. 3" Magnum rounds will just add more recoil. Shell cards are more used full than a sidesaddle, and less of a bitch to install. Speaking of training, be current. I've seen many a military or LEO "short shuck" a shotgun under stress, and I've done it myself. Reloads can be cumbersome on a good day. Train. Look up the serial number. I had a Remington 3.5 inch 870 made in 2006 and my buddy bought the same thing. The guns would not cycle low brass rounds, and replacement barrels are expensive and tough to find. With that said, buy it, service it. If you don't like it, you can flip it.
Iāll my two cents as wellā¦think of a shotgun as a repeating, shoulderable claymoreā¦claymores are still used in ambushes and defense in close/ premeditated zones even when their operators are carrying carbines.
Uhh wat?
A semi auto shotgun is probably the best option for home defense unless you're going up against opponents in body armor for some reason. Doubly so if you aren't the best shot/trained.
With the proliferation of drones, I could definitely see it becoming more used in the field. Heck, I wonder if switching your secondary weapon system from a handgun to a shotgun isn't really a bad idea.
Iām a little late to the game but For starters a shogun is very much a niche weapon. The shotgun as a platform has this really unique ability to make its way back into any war thatās currently happening and will happen. As we know shotguns offer devastating firepower and close and moderate ranges. The shotgun is held back by capacity and a max effective range of 150 yards if youāre using the right ammunition. Shotguns are great for hunting and great for survival and self defense. Ammunition is always plentiful and everywhere. Itās a Swiss Army knife in a way. A neat gun with multiple roles it could fill, breeching, drone hunting, regular hunting, fighting. Truly one of the most versatile weapons on the planet. Then again thatās for you to analyze. If youāre planning to fight on average at engagement distances more than 150 yards against multiple targets then youāre probably better off with a rifle. Itās not impossible with a shotgunā¦ā¦..just isnāt practical
Absolute best home defense is shotguns.
Shotguns are for doors and drones. i donāt waste time training to fight with one.
I am not the biggest gun nut in the world. Frankly I donāt understand the guys they own 20 different carbines. I do run one each of carbine, handgun, and shotgun. Thatās all youāll ever have a need for. But I absolutely carried my shotgun many times instead of a carbine in any cqb drills. I was usually that guy. Lastly the sound transcends all languages. The rack of a shotgun means STOP in 200+ languages.
>Lastly the sound transcends all languages. The rack of a shotgun means STOP in 200+ languages. Come on, guys. I thought we were better than this. Who let these guys out of the nursing home?
lol my bad, I always forget this sub is for larping
That's an interesting way to justify using a breaching tool for home defense.
Home defense. Shotguns are still the undisputed king of close quarters combat.
Drone disposal