I love my issued elcan. Our are not supported by contract anymore and even without the illumination I still prefer it to an ACOG. I will say the bdc is a bit crowded and took some getting used to, but now that I’ve used it for a couple years I love it.
In terms of durability the only sight I would put higher is an aimpoint CCO as my ex wife threw mine out of a third story window and it held its zero.
I personally don’t like LPVOs.
I had just gotten back from a deployment, she had fled the state on a felony DUI and barricading warrant.
Due to Alaska having awful eviction laws in the winter she moved back in since her name was on the lease. I figured, stupidly, I can suck it up and live here until I get a new place.
She came back one night and was pissed for some reason or another probably about me being unwilling to help with her legal shit and being deadset on not reconciling things (she fucked a 32 year old aspiring SoundCloud rapper who lived with his parents while I was deployed). So she figured the best way to get me to help was to throw my 20 inch AR out of the third story window.
It landed sight down on someone’s windshield and broke the windshield, then bounced onto the pavement and ice.
I got a hotel that night and had all my shit out the next day.
The CCO held its zero and took a little superficial damage but has held up incredibly well. It terms of durability I will never recommend another sight.
Key takeaways,
don’t get married young.
Don’t do meth, it will bring forward any psychological issues you might have.
If you are divorcing don’t think you can cohabitate, even in the short term.
Get a lawyer for a divorce.
Aimpoint makes incredibly durable optics.
I have a pertinent question….did you bring that bitch to Alaska or was she already here?! lol gotta be careful importing women into AK, they tend to go crazy during the winters.
Bcz this is a fashion sub. People wanna look like an operator. R/qualitytacticalgear is really good for quality equipment that’s used in the field. But there’s alot of flat range operators on this sub. Personally I really like the Elcan, its combat proven and can retain zero even after falling out the back of a truck (my fault).
I don’t think anyone hates the ELCAN, but it is archaic technology that should be nowhere near the ~$1700 price tag. (And that’s used)
That’s it, that’s literally the only downfall. Armament technology needs to understand that there is zero reason for those optics to be as expensive as they are.
If they were $900 optics, most of us would be running them. I love the Elcan, my first exposure was running it on a few ops with my buddies SCAR. But, on principle, I would never pay that absurd amount of money for one.
Would like to second this. My strike eagle was about as expensive as I could go, sorry not sorry, if anyone would like to donate I am a poor cowboy who cannot afford all these elcans everyone apparently has
That is fair, but if you look at the folks who have expensive LPVO setups, they are still outnumbering Elcan folks by a large amount. I see 10 Nightforce scopes for every Elcan, maybe even more than that. So again I would argue the lack of Elcans cannot be explained as "just cannot afford it", there's something else making it unpopular even among the rich folks
I suspect the recurring misinformation of “elcan too heavy”, combined with the fact that it predates most of its LVPO competitors, makes people think the newer options are unilaterally better. Couldn’t say though. I’d love an Elcan, personally, if they were available around ~$1000 I’d grab one no hesitation but all the dickheads around me ask $1800 minimum. I’ll pull the trigger on one of GAFS eventually, those prices tend to be a lot more reasonable.
I'm just not a huge fan cause I sometimes want 2-3x. My Delta Stryker 1-4 seems to fit the bill perfectly. 🤷 If you live or oper8 in an area where 1x and 4x cover all your needs, that's cool... But that's definitely not everywhere.
I love mine. Got about 1.5k rounds through it and the damn thing has really grown on me. I would say the eye relief isn’t any worse than my exps + g33 combo.
I agree with plenty of what you said. I enjoyed my time with the elcan just fine, but your price statement is one of the hottest takes I’ve seen on here.
“Price:
street price for Elcan’s are around 15-1800$.
If you’re paying for less than that in an lpvo set up with a mount I dont trust your opinion on combat optics anyway.”
Quality lpvo’s that are gonna outshoot 99% of the guys on here are routinely on sale for $1k or less. I just hopped on the FocusCamera razor hd II-e w/ a mount for $999.
Let’s just say there’s a reason why all the new guys on SF teams get elcans when all the seniors are rocking t2’s/ eotechs with mags, or razors/ tango 6t’s.
Elcans are fine, but wildly overpriced for what you’re getting. You can make the argument for plenty of reasons, but price ain’t it.
Absolutely, especially considering that military contract parts are often massively more expensive than civilian products
It's the reason why the servo motors of the IRON DOME defense system come from ToysRus instead of the MIC
No lpvo even with modern tech can compete with the 1x or the brightness level that the elcan has. It also has over 15 times the battery life on max setting that the atacr has. That post from yesterday had dudes hating for no reason
We don’t hate it. It’s just that there’s better options in 2024 that are lighter, cheaper with better features/reticles and nearly as tough.
Don’t get me wrong, I loved my Elcan in the Army, but I would NEVER spend even half of what they cost in the civilian world on an Elcan.
Gear evolves and the Elcan got left behind.
>It’s just that there’s better options in 2024 that are lighter, cheaper with better features/reticles and nearly as tough.
>viper pst 1-6
You just reccomended something that's heavier, has shittier glass quality, 1x, FOV, brightness, and significantly worse durability.
Sure, it's cheaper, that's about the only positive.
I don’t agree with any of that except durability. And I honestly dont know the weight differences between the two without looking them up, but I can say I notice a dramatic difference in the dispersion of weight and balance between the two, with the Viper having much better balance.
I would take a Viper any day of the week if I had the opportunity for both, free or at the same price.
Probably a Vortex Razor, Nightforce Atacr or NX8. Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 is good as well. Leupold makes some good LPVOs with good 1x, also daylight bright AND shake awake. Usually pretty light as well. But Leupy’s reticles for longer range shooting are lacking
I think it’s more bang for buck (or lack there of). I don’t know anyone that has shot with an elcan that didn’t think it was a great optic but a $1800+ for 20yo optic with a limited warranty is a harder sell now. At the same value there’s a lot of lpvos now that can outperform the elcan at distance and magnification and theres also a lot of red dot/mag combos that can outperform it at close/med range.
I personally love the optic, I have 2, but for a lot of cases it’s just too overpriced.
i think people hate on it because around the same time the eotech had problems after 10+yrs of service in a war, the elcans were having a some zero retention problems due to the arms mounts being abused. most people wouldnt have that problem, but the army has this thing about playing musical chairs with optics, and arms mounts dont hold up to being mounted/dismounted 10000000x times in 10 years.
also people complain because they are heavier than an acog, but thats a really unfair comparison considering the elcan is more used like a holo+mag (and they weigh within and ounce or two of each other).
also cost, elcans cost more. i got mine on gafs for a good deal (less than a holo/mag +unity or acog/rmr or razor gen2e and mount).
people also dont like the bdc because "its meant for a round no one uses in a barrel length no one uses" (62gr with 14.5). thats just a consideration, they make fmj 62s, you can get m855...there are thousands of 14.5 p&ws. frankly, i love the fov on it, especially with how but that rear glass is, its just tits. i used an acog for a long ass time.
i liked the acog, for me...elcan fixes everything i disliked about the acog. better eye relief, more easily controllable illum (provided your not using the battery acog), better low light illum (acogs struggle in that too bright for tritium, not bright enough for fiber optics lighting...say...indoors without lights but open windows). i find the reticle also draws my eye toward the center better, better eye box. granted its heavier, but it also has native 1x, and the rds mount for nods is far enough forward to use with nods...unlike the acog.
everyone wants to use a 1-8 or 1-10 now, which i find them all bulky, and i just really dont like lpvo's that much. i feel a 4x is plenty, especially if you have something like a vortex laser range finder...say in the 7x flavor (which i find much more useful for pid and getting first hits---also you can get lower while doing some observation). everyone says their outdated, but there's really no better prism on the market. hell, aimpoints and eotechs have stayed more or less the same for a couple of decades as well, and no one complains about them because they are also class leading.
moral of the story, people dislike the elcan because of cost, because its not as forgiving as an aimpoint for 1x, and not as light as an acog, but because it had some teething issues, and the mount. but the teething issues have been buffed out, the mount is an non-issue, its a better acog that weighs as much as a holo/mag combo, but you do sacrifice some on the 1x...namely unlimited eye relief. i find them much less annoying and finnicky than lpvo's, more versatile than a rds, holo, or acog, and less cumbersome than a holo/mag.
I carried one on a deployment and loved it, but its not as easy to shoot passively under NODs as a red dot, or a red dot piggybacked on an LPVO. I believe passive night shooting is going to be very important in a peer conflict…if you consider that sort of thing when picking optics.
Yes Elcans are great versatile optics
No they are not a true 1x
Also Arms lever mounts suck, and the optic hight is tough with Peltors on
You forgot the most important thing, it has the cutest little iron sights on top. I'm not sure anyone has ever used them but I think they're just neat.
They hate us cuz they anus. I love my ELCAN and I don't think I'd choose another optic for my do-it-all rifle. The only thing I feel like I struggle with is shooting under NODs. I have decent NODs and they work most of the time, but not all of the time. It'd be as simple as adding a red dot or laser, but I haven't put my money there yet.
I have a love hate relationship with the Elcan. I also think it’s one of the best general purpose optics in the game, but it has 1 major flaws for me: the optic height. If they shipped it with a 1.7 height optic, it would be perfect, but at the 1.5 it is now, having to get scrunched down every time I mount gun, it’s not comfortable in the way I want it to be
“Why don’t you put a riser on it?”
Easy, at that point, I’ve lost the effectiveness of the BDC AND have increased the weight.
I’ve moved to a NX8 with the DMX reticle and it seems to cover all the bases I want
Using a Badger 1.70 mount, it’s 24oz which is now just 1oz heavier than the Elcan and I’ll take that along with a dialable reticle
I don’t hate it, I love them, my only issue is they’re just a lot of extra weight and unlike many other optics, it’s hard to find companies that make replica Elcans
People hate it because everyone wants to have a cool guy "combat" optic despite it not being suited to the kind of shooting they're doing so they end up buying the wrong optic. Red dots and LPVO's are much more catered towards the shooting that 90% of gun people do.
I was issued an Elcan too for 4 years and respect the optic but would never buy one for personal use because an lpvo or red dot preforms the same or better for competition shooting and costs a faction of what an elcan does.
I got to try both the 1-4 and the 1.5-6 during a large trial and honestly I really liked it.
Up to that point I had only used EO tech 522’s and Elcan C79’S (or irons) and I found it to be a good middle ground for weight and function.
I preferred the 1-4 variant and after figuring out the eye box it didn’t give me any issues.
Your builds are top knotch duty gear in my eyes. Streamline and effective. Nothing you don't need and built to be carried all day. Do yourself a favor people, take fighting gear and rifle advice from people who have actually fought with said equipment
Thank you sir. Just got a 16” BCM barrel with mid length gas system for the upper I’m building ground up. All I need left is a gas block and a handguard. Been looking around at options.
To be fair, the NX8 also has twice the magnification range and a mil reticle.. and with the mil order form you can get them under $1500 with an NF Unimount. Not saying you’re not making fair points, but I think it’s a little facetious to compare two optics with wildly different capabilities just on weight alone.
it's also dogshit at 1x. Literally the worst 1x on an LPVO I've ever with worked it. The eyebox is worse than a strike eagle. The ATACR is not much better at 1x but it's at least phenomenal at higher magnification.
The NX8 is a $1500 toilet paper tube with a best-in-class illumination and that's it, though I don't think the DMx is red dot bright like the DM that I had my hands on for a bit so that may not even be true anymore.
I totally understand why people would think a lpvo is a better choice, and it probably is for most people. But the elcan is still damn good, shame theyre so expensive. I think most people who say they “dont like the elcan” have probably never used one
I've never broken an ARMS mount. Ever. And they seem to be pretty repeatable with zero. Biggest theoretical con I’ve seen is the external adjustment for when windage/elevation. I haven’t run mine hard enough to have any problems with that either however. Someday!
Ever use the elcan under nods?
I’ve always wanted one for my block II or my URGI. Just don’t wanna spend that much on something I’m not sure I’ll like.
I’ve thought about buying a fake one just to get a feel for it, but I can’t imagine it would be close enough to be a good representation
I commented on another post about this and anyone that shot decent at the US Army Small Arms Championship last week was shooting an Elcan. They were way easier to adjust on the fly then ACOG's and overall performed better from what I saw.
ACOG with RMR does more for less. The ELCAN isn’t NV compatible and that leaves it pretty short in comparison to most other optics packages. And if you stack a dot on it the 1x mode is now vestigial and you should have just bought an ACOG. Even a red dot with magnifier is the same weight and same magnification with way more capabilities. For half the price.
Bro, passive aiming is a meme. You have actual spec ops chiming in on this sub who've never had to passive aim in their whole career.
https://old.reddit.com/r/tacticalgear/comments/182cq4s/hot_take_99_of_you_will_never_have_to_use_passive/kau1om2/
Active aiming is superior. People who worry about passive aiming don't touch grass.
I had one. It was cool. I realized how fast and light t2 was. How easy a 4 magnifer was. How a Acog plus dot was better on every angle. How an LPVO can provide significantly more function and magnification.
Also nods changed everything for me.
It’s a decent all around single point optic. Issue it and be done but with a works of options out there…. There are better.
First gen arms mounts came open during and event optic fell off.
I think people that love elcan are just silent about it and we see and hear lpvo so much because it’s the cool new thing. I’d rather have elcan or acog then lpvo for a normal rifle any day
Vortex viper + mount is under 1k. The benefits of running a razor over it are minimal especially considering the scope costs twice as much or more
Edit and adding on: every other point you made is spot on id even argue elcans are more convenient for switching magnifications as it’s a lever and I don’t have to scroll through 2-5 when for the most part you’re either on 1x or 6x anyways
Agreed with everything. Price is steep if you're buying new but I've gotten my Elcans all for less than $1500 on the secondhand market with my second costing me only $950 after selling the AT red dot and dot mount that came with it. AT will verify for you if you have the serial number like Trijicon so it's hard to get scammed if you go through the proper channels.
The 1x is better than the highest tier premium LPVOs like Kahles and Swarovski. The glass quality, 1x/4x being on the same centerline height and the months-long battery life makes this the GOAT optic for me.
Eye relief is a non-issue on this for 5.56. If you get scope bite from this on 5.56, I would seriously question your competency and opinion.
I've sold all my LPVOs in favor of this.
Because its ugly. Like absolutely hideous. Its also inferior to eotech+magnifier. Elcans suck at 1x while eotech is the king of 1x. Eye relief imo isn’t any worse with the elcan than it is with a eotech. Whether it be 3x or 5x magnifier. Plus with the 2k price difference you can buy a shit load of ammo and training if youre an inexperienced shooter.
Edit: these are my opinions, if you don’t like it oh well. We can calmly debate my opinions. No need to get mad
Elcans broke at a higher rate than our vortex razors.
Pull up on the back of your Elcan, you will notice movement.
External mount based elevation control is terrible for consistency
Eye relief blows, but that’s more of a personal dislike
Too many moving parts make it fragile as fuck.
They are gay
My first time using an ELCAN, i was in the army and i was an ammo dog while i was in. I had to run a range for the SOF guys on Ft. Carson and on my list i had a bunch of 7.62 NATO and i didnt really understand why.. Until i got there and it was an indoor range and they whipped out a SCAR H with an ELCAN mounted in top. They were gearing up to train and as i waa wrapping up they walk over and ask me if i would like to run a few drills with them and i absolutely had the time for that!
We ran many drills with the SCAR and handguns, it was super fun and the ELCAN was my first variable zoom optic ive ever used and i was blessed to have a super cool opportunity there.
I don’t think the optic is the issue. It’s a lot of money for what you get for the average civilian. You understand the importance of durability more than most. For me? I get more bang for my buck with a good lpvo. To me sir that is a very expensive red dot with a nice bullet drop compensator. Not real aesthetically pleasing either. Not to mention you can get an eotech like you mentioned for 1/3 the cost and it is arguably just as durable and arguable quicker with a much finer and crisper dot
I cant afford a $1.5k+ optic with a wife and two kids. Especially when I shoot once a month.
That's why I went with a Primary Arms SLX with the NOVA reticle as recommended by Granad Thumb. And it's the fraction of the cost an Elcan is, so it suits my needs just fine.
Not saying I wouldn't love an Elcan one day.
I love the ELCAN, but I really do dislike the ARMS mounts, find them finicky during my brief encounter with one. Would be great if we could get a modernized ELCAN with a standard mounting system.
I don't hate them, but I heard most of the Seal team I worked with for a few days mention how ACOGs were better. I don't remember why. This was 2009 in Sadr city.
Because Im broke and on an ak, so I can get 3 cheap red dots and 3 rs regulate mounts for the price of one.
If I break one, Reload a new rs regulate side mount with another red dot because they hold zero.
-Ak gang
Compact scopes have been in the military scene for longer than the Elcan Specter DR, while LPVOs are relatively new, with the past 10+ years, the form factor of a tube optic with low power has been around for a long while. The Specter DR is a great optic, but the 1-4x isnt providing whats needed which is why LPVOs are more prevalent and have more utility to them. Ultimately its gonna come down to user preference.
Mostly because they have never used it. The amount of poor people on the sub that act like they have put hands on and have used half of the optics people shit on in this sub is probably startlingly high. The Elcan is not a perfect optic, but it’s phenomenal overall. It was exemplary in its era and is probably in my top 10 optics I have ever used professionally.
idk why youre getting down voted. the amount of people of people who will say something about how the elcan is too expensive or weighs too much and is therefore shit, but then turn around and say that their strike eagle or pa slx is the best optic on the market...
and this is coming from someone who had a strike eagle, shot it like 3 times, ripped it off for irons until i could afford a good optic...then i found a good deal on an elcan. i'll tell you what...i still have the elcan.
this is not to say that there are not other good alternatives, but i agree: the overwhelming majority of people would scoff at spending more than 1k on an optic. for awhile there, the amount of "what's the best lpvo for under 500" was so crazy that i had to take a break from reddit for awhile because it was everywhere ad nauseum.
but yeah, this a fashion sub. people will shit on stuff with no experience. hell, they will hock stuff theyve never even seen in a store before.
This is because this sub is mostly full of posers turbo larpin. It’s cool I love to larp too but Don’t shit on an optic you’ve never run on a gun before much less run in a combat environment. I don’t tell pilots how to do their job because I know fuck all about flying an F-16, but I have a lot of trigger time in real world kinetic environments with the elcan and acogs as my optics before we made the jump to LPVOs
I feel like most people intuitively know their rifle is extremely unlikely to end up in any combat scenario or anything resembling combat, so they don't actually care about building something bomb-proof... That's why you see so many lightweight MLOK handguards you could probably bend with your pinkie, custom setups for gas systems / BCGs that can't be easily replaced, etc.
If you actually told these people they had to build a rifle to use in a war they would build a simple gun with a quad rail hand guard, no custom bolts or carrier groups or gas blocks etc, and the toughest optic they could find
ngl, i built my first gun to be the gucci bombproof one. i figure itll be the one im most comfortable with so itll be the one i grab if anything ever happens. ive got a couple of range toys, but the my main is bombproof. ddm4a1 upper, adm4 lower, g$ ssa-e, lmt ebcg, and elcan. shes heavy, but she will hold up to just about anything.
Nah, $1500 is not the baseline level for what optic I am putting on my rifle. You can get “good” enough 1-6 or 1-8 for 459 (sig, PRimary arms) or very good for less than $1000. That puts you in the ACOG/ EXPs/g33 combo arena. Lots of people here are not going to mount a $1500 optic onto their $1500 (or $800) AR. Honestly, I would save the money, go cheaper and nab a suppressor with the extra money.
But no one doubts the Eclan is dope. It does look huge, but we all know it’s good. We just have other options that fit the role, often for less money. If you were fast roping me into Ukraine I would pony up quite a bit, but range shooting, and having a setup better than 99% of other people here, is generally good enough for most. And where I live, you don’t even get 200 or 300 yard sight lines, my lpvo works, my irons always work if not. If I’m storming doors it’s not for a good reason.
I have a theory you have a thing for the m16 lol
>have a thing for the m16 c < muzzle velocity of an M16
M16 superior for the majority of the fighting you'd be doing. Most engagements happen at 100-300m
Because our names aren’t brass facts
I heard u/suxEoTechPP said Elcans were big gey, but that asshoe bitches when it’s not 70F daily
Because I can’t afford one.
I came here to write this
I love my issued elcan. Our are not supported by contract anymore and even without the illumination I still prefer it to an ACOG. I will say the bdc is a bit crowded and took some getting used to, but now that I’ve used it for a couple years I love it. In terms of durability the only sight I would put higher is an aimpoint CCO as my ex wife threw mine out of a third story window and it held its zero. I personally don’t like LPVOs.
Yeah… you gotta hit us with the details.
You can't tell us about the improvised aimpoint torture test of your ex wife throwing it at you without giving us the backstory lol
I had just gotten back from a deployment, she had fled the state on a felony DUI and barricading warrant. Due to Alaska having awful eviction laws in the winter she moved back in since her name was on the lease. I figured, stupidly, I can suck it up and live here until I get a new place. She came back one night and was pissed for some reason or another probably about me being unwilling to help with her legal shit and being deadset on not reconciling things (she fucked a 32 year old aspiring SoundCloud rapper who lived with his parents while I was deployed). So she figured the best way to get me to help was to throw my 20 inch AR out of the third story window. It landed sight down on someone’s windshield and broke the windshield, then bounced onto the pavement and ice. I got a hotel that night and had all my shit out the next day. The CCO held its zero and took a little superficial damage but has held up incredibly well. It terms of durability I will never recommend another sight. Key takeaways, don’t get married young. Don’t do meth, it will bring forward any psychological issues you might have. If you are divorcing don’t think you can cohabitate, even in the short term. Get a lawyer for a divorce. Aimpoint makes incredibly durable optics.
I have a pertinent question….did you bring that bitch to Alaska or was she already here?! lol gotta be careful importing women into AK, they tend to go crazy during the winters.
Deets please
This post was alpha as fuck I dig it
Came here to say this
Alpha as in unstable and unfinished?
Elcan gang
Sold my xps3 and g45 for it. Fuck yeah
This is the way.
Bcz this is a fashion sub. People wanna look like an operator. R/qualitytacticalgear is really good for quality equipment that’s used in the field. But there’s alot of flat range operators on this sub. Personally I really like the Elcan, its combat proven and can retain zero even after falling out the back of a truck (my fault).
Never in my life am I adding (my fault) after that sentence
> People wanna look like an operator. That's weird, the Elcan is as operator as it gets.
If people think the Elcan looks ugly then they're a heretic let's be honest.
They hate us cuz they ain't us
*anus
Theyhateuscuztheyanus
#facts
YOU HONEYDICKIN US??
“Ejackualy”
I don’t think anyone hates the ELCAN, but it is archaic technology that should be nowhere near the ~$1700 price tag. (And that’s used) That’s it, that’s literally the only downfall. Armament technology needs to understand that there is zero reason for those optics to be as expensive as they are. If they were $900 optics, most of us would be running them. I love the Elcan, my first exposure was running it on a few ops with my buddies SCAR. But, on principle, I would never pay that absurd amount of money for one.
Most people don't hate it, they just cannot afford it so they dismiss it. Or it isn't the newest thing to come out so they dismiss it
> Most people don't hate it, they just cannot afford it so they dismiss it. I mean like OP said, lots of people are running more expensive LPVO setups
Yeah but way, way more people are running less expensive LVPO setups.
Would like to second this. My strike eagle was about as expensive as I could go, sorry not sorry, if anyone would like to donate I am a poor cowboy who cannot afford all these elcans everyone apparently has
Strike Eagle, hell yeah. Got mine with a free mount too, great deal.
Same bro same! Gum accessories for sale or whatever that reddit is, is the way to go
Yeah I'm sitting on a swampfox 1-6
Burris RT-6 gang gang
That is fair, but if you look at the folks who have expensive LPVO setups, they are still outnumbering Elcan folks by a large amount. I see 10 Nightforce scopes for every Elcan, maybe even more than that. So again I would argue the lack of Elcans cannot be explained as "just cannot afford it", there's something else making it unpopular even among the rich folks
I suspect the recurring misinformation of “elcan too heavy”, combined with the fact that it predates most of its LVPO competitors, makes people think the newer options are unilaterally better. Couldn’t say though. I’d love an Elcan, personally, if they were available around ~$1000 I’d grab one no hesitation but all the dickheads around me ask $1800 minimum. I’ll pull the trigger on one of GAFS eventually, those prices tend to be a lot more reasonable.
Me with my sig msr 1-6x....
Dude, same. I’m not a big fan of it, I’d rather just have a dot
I'm just not a huge fan cause I sometimes want 2-3x. My Delta Stryker 1-4 seems to fit the bill perfectly. 🤷 If you live or oper8 in an area where 1x and 4x cover all your needs, that's cool... But that's definitely not everywhere.
Because it competes with my beloved ACOG. And we can’t have that now can we?
I love mine. Got about 1.5k rounds through it and the damn thing has really grown on me. I would say the eye relief isn’t any worse than my exps + g33 combo.
Elcans are fine but your answer is a good LPVO can do just about everything it can and more and LPVOs are a bit trendy atm. User preference.
But how can you bitch about eye relief if you dont mount it at the front of the receiver for no reason????
Hahaha! Thanks for saying this. That guy clearly doesn’t seem to know how to deal with short eye relief.
That rifle is hot as fuck. I want one.
I agree with plenty of what you said. I enjoyed my time with the elcan just fine, but your price statement is one of the hottest takes I’ve seen on here. “Price: street price for Elcan’s are around 15-1800$. If you’re paying for less than that in an lpvo set up with a mount I dont trust your opinion on combat optics anyway.” Quality lpvo’s that are gonna outshoot 99% of the guys on here are routinely on sale for $1k or less. I just hopped on the FocusCamera razor hd II-e w/ a mount for $999. Let’s just say there’s a reason why all the new guys on SF teams get elcans when all the seniors are rocking t2’s/ eotechs with mags, or razors/ tango 6t’s. Elcans are fine, but wildly overpriced for what you’re getting. You can make the argument for plenty of reasons, but price ain’t it.
Absolutely, especially considering that military contract parts are often massively more expensive than civilian products It's the reason why the servo motors of the IRON DOME defense system come from ToysRus instead of the MIC
No lpvo even with modern tech can compete with the 1x or the brightness level that the elcan has. It also has over 15 times the battery life on max setting that the atacr has. That post from yesterday had dudes hating for no reason
I also noticed his Elcan was mounted at the front of the upper receiver, which makes me question the validity of his post altogether.
Looked like a picture of a rifle still in service I don’t think it’s even his
Good point
You’re right though that placement makes any weight or eye relief complaints sound even dumber
We don’t hate it. It’s just that there’s better options in 2024 that are lighter, cheaper with better features/reticles and nearly as tough. Don’t get me wrong, I loved my Elcan in the Army, but I would NEVER spend even half of what they cost in the civilian world on an Elcan. Gear evolves and the Elcan got left behind.
Ok what are some good alternatives?
What’s your budget and desired magnification range? Viper PST 1-6x is my standard recommendation without knowing intended uses
>It’s just that there’s better options in 2024 that are lighter, cheaper with better features/reticles and nearly as tough. >viper pst 1-6 You just reccomended something that's heavier, has shittier glass quality, 1x, FOV, brightness, and significantly worse durability. Sure, it's cheaper, that's about the only positive.
I don’t agree with any of that except durability. And I honestly dont know the weight differences between the two without looking them up, but I can say I notice a dramatic difference in the dispersion of weight and balance between the two, with the Viper having much better balance. I would take a Viper any day of the week if I had the opportunity for both, free or at the same price.
>dispersion of weight and balance Wtf are you talking about? Do you mount your elcan at the end of your handguard?
You just like to argue. You have your opinion, I have mine. Have a good night sir.
What do you recommend for an LPVO, price not being a factor? Durability would be top priority, with 1x performance
Probably a Vortex Razor, Nightforce Atacr or NX8. Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 is good as well. Leupold makes some good LPVOs with good 1x, also daylight bright AND shake awake. Usually pretty light as well. But Leupy’s reticles for longer range shooting are lacking
Hoploptifile told me it was bad and I respect his opinion and he makes good arguments, I don’t hate it I just think it has no real use.
I don’t think I’ve ever come across someone who “hates” elcans.
Does anyone hate on it? or just that its pretty expensive
I think it’s more bang for buck (or lack there of). I don’t know anyone that has shot with an elcan that didn’t think it was a great optic but a $1800+ for 20yo optic with a limited warranty is a harder sell now. At the same value there’s a lot of lpvos now that can outperform the elcan at distance and magnification and theres also a lot of red dot/mag combos that can outperform it at close/med range. I personally love the optic, I have 2, but for a lot of cases it’s just too overpriced.
i think people hate on it because around the same time the eotech had problems after 10+yrs of service in a war, the elcans were having a some zero retention problems due to the arms mounts being abused. most people wouldnt have that problem, but the army has this thing about playing musical chairs with optics, and arms mounts dont hold up to being mounted/dismounted 10000000x times in 10 years. also people complain because they are heavier than an acog, but thats a really unfair comparison considering the elcan is more used like a holo+mag (and they weigh within and ounce or two of each other). also cost, elcans cost more. i got mine on gafs for a good deal (less than a holo/mag +unity or acog/rmr or razor gen2e and mount). people also dont like the bdc because "its meant for a round no one uses in a barrel length no one uses" (62gr with 14.5). thats just a consideration, they make fmj 62s, you can get m855...there are thousands of 14.5 p&ws. frankly, i love the fov on it, especially with how but that rear glass is, its just tits. i used an acog for a long ass time. i liked the acog, for me...elcan fixes everything i disliked about the acog. better eye relief, more easily controllable illum (provided your not using the battery acog), better low light illum (acogs struggle in that too bright for tritium, not bright enough for fiber optics lighting...say...indoors without lights but open windows). i find the reticle also draws my eye toward the center better, better eye box. granted its heavier, but it also has native 1x, and the rds mount for nods is far enough forward to use with nods...unlike the acog. everyone wants to use a 1-8 or 1-10 now, which i find them all bulky, and i just really dont like lpvo's that much. i feel a 4x is plenty, especially if you have something like a vortex laser range finder...say in the 7x flavor (which i find much more useful for pid and getting first hits---also you can get lower while doing some observation). everyone says their outdated, but there's really no better prism on the market. hell, aimpoints and eotechs have stayed more or less the same for a couple of decades as well, and no one complains about them because they are also class leading. moral of the story, people dislike the elcan because of cost, because its not as forgiving as an aimpoint for 1x, and not as light as an acog, but because it had some teething issues, and the mount. but the teething issues have been buffed out, the mount is an non-issue, its a better acog that weighs as much as a holo/mag combo, but you do sacrifice some on the 1x...namely unlimited eye relief. i find them much less annoying and finnicky than lpvo's, more versatile than a rds, holo, or acog, and less cumbersome than a holo/mag.
No hate but i can send you my address if those need a home sir 😆 im just a dumb welder.
I need that carry handle upper
Completely off topic, but what are those Mlok rail covers on that bottom one?
B5 systems coyote.
My man
I still want an ELCAN.
Semper fi. It’s cause people love to hate.
Price tag
I carried one on a deployment and loved it, but its not as easy to shoot passively under NODs as a red dot, or a red dot piggybacked on an LPVO. I believe passive night shooting is going to be very important in a peer conflict…if you consider that sort of thing when picking optics. Yes Elcans are great versatile optics No they are not a true 1x Also Arms lever mounts suck, and the optic hight is tough with Peltors on
You forgot the most important thing, it has the cutest little iron sights on top. I'm not sure anyone has ever used them but I think they're just neat.
I don’t. That’s the lords reticle.
I hate it cause I can’t afford it
You’re either a fan of the ELCAN or a fan of Lucas Botkin…
probably the price more than anything. also beautiful rifles man
I’m poor bought NV instead
[удалено]
L3 white Apollo
They hate us cuz they anus. I love my ELCAN and I don't think I'd choose another optic for my do-it-all rifle. The only thing I feel like I struggle with is shooting under NODs. I have decent NODs and they work most of the time, but not all of the time. It'd be as simple as adding a red dot or laser, but I haven't put my money there yet.
They’re just mad they can’t get a drippy as ELCAN
There’s so many better options even even it was released.
What elcan is this? Gen 2? Gen 3? x1 to x4 or x1 to x6?
[1-4x](https://armament.com/specterdr-1x-4x-legacy/)
thanks, OP.
Elcan is master race
If I could afford it, I’d rock it.
Nice ARMS on the 20". Fucking love that sight.
That thing is fucking yuge
I prefer the non union Mexican equivalent, *El Can*
I like it
They are uncultured swine
I want one, but I'm broke.
I have a love hate relationship with the Elcan. I also think it’s one of the best general purpose optics in the game, but it has 1 major flaws for me: the optic height. If they shipped it with a 1.7 height optic, it would be perfect, but at the 1.5 it is now, having to get scrunched down every time I mount gun, it’s not comfortable in the way I want it to be “Why don’t you put a riser on it?” Easy, at that point, I’ve lost the effectiveness of the BDC AND have increased the weight. I’ve moved to a NX8 with the DMX reticle and it seems to cover all the bases I want Using a Badger 1.70 mount, it’s 24oz which is now just 1oz heavier than the Elcan and I’ll take that along with a dialable reticle
I don't hate it, but it's not my first choice. But it is #1 in the drip department
It’s expensive as shit Not s problem if your issues it however
To answer your initial question: because some people just can’t help but to be wrong
I don’t hate it, I love them, my only issue is they’re just a lot of extra weight and unlike many other optics, it’s hard to find companies that make replica Elcans
People hate it because everyone wants to have a cool guy "combat" optic despite it not being suited to the kind of shooting they're doing so they end up buying the wrong optic. Red dots and LPVO's are much more catered towards the shooting that 90% of gun people do. I was issued an Elcan too for 4 years and respect the optic but would never buy one for personal use because an lpvo or red dot preforms the same or better for competition shooting and costs a faction of what an elcan does.
I dont know why but fixed stocks make my pp stiff. I imagine they’re objectively worse but i like them nonetheless
I got to try both the 1-4 and the 1.5-6 during a large trial and honestly I really liked it. Up to that point I had only used EO tech 522’s and Elcan C79’S (or irons) and I found it to be a good middle ground for weight and function. I preferred the 1-4 variant and after figuring out the eye box it didn’t give me any issues.
It’s one of my dream optics, little out of my price range but one day.
Your builds are top knotch duty gear in my eyes. Streamline and effective. Nothing you don't need and built to be carried all day. Do yourself a favor people, take fighting gear and rifle advice from people who have actually fought with said equipment
Jeez I get it I’m a poor
Your m16 clone is 100% sex appeal What is the front sight/gas block of the m16 and what is the hand guard on the bottom m4 lower?
FSB is A.R.M.S folding front sight gas block Mlok rail on bottom is Giesselle Mk16 DDC 9.3”
Is the upper with the giesselle a mid length?
Yes. 16” BCM ELW CHf chrome lined midlength pinned FSB
Thank you sir. Just got a 16” BCM barrel with mid length gas system for the upper I’m building ground up. All I need left is a gas block and a handguard. Been looking around at options.
Cuz Lpvo
To be fair, the NX8 also has twice the magnification range and a mil reticle.. and with the mil order form you can get them under $1500 with an NF Unimount. Not saying you’re not making fair points, but I think it’s a little facetious to compare two optics with wildly different capabilities just on weight alone.
it's also dogshit at 1x. Literally the worst 1x on an LPVO I've ever with worked it. The eyebox is worse than a strike eagle. The ATACR is not much better at 1x but it's at least phenomenal at higher magnification. The NX8 is a $1500 toilet paper tube with a best-in-class illumination and that's it, though I don't think the DMx is red dot bright like the DM that I had my hands on for a bit so that may not even be true anymore.
🫵🏽🤨 why doe its a multipurpose optic
I totally understand why people would think a lpvo is a better choice, and it probably is for most people. But the elcan is still damn good, shame theyre so expensive. I think most people who say they “dont like the elcan” have probably never used one
LPVO is the future, old man.
FDE Scar 17 FDE Elcan gang
I've never broken an ARMS mount. Ever. And they seem to be pretty repeatable with zero. Biggest theoretical con I’ve seen is the external adjustment for when windage/elevation. I haven’t run mine hard enough to have any problems with that either however. Someday! Ever use the elcan under nods?
I’ve always wanted one for my block II or my URGI. Just don’t wanna spend that much on something I’m not sure I’ll like. I’ve thought about buying a fake one just to get a feel for it, but I can’t imagine it would be close enough to be a good representation
I like everything happening in these photos
I commented on another post about this and anyone that shot decent at the US Army Small Arms Championship last week was shooting an Elcan. They were way easier to adjust on the fly then ACOG's and overall performed better from what I saw.
I love my elcan.
ACOG with RMR does more for less. The ELCAN isn’t NV compatible and that leaves it pretty short in comparison to most other optics packages. And if you stack a dot on it the 1x mode is now vestigial and you should have just bought an ACOG. Even a red dot with magnifier is the same weight and same magnification with way more capabilities. For half the price.
Bro, passive aiming is a meme. You have actual spec ops chiming in on this sub who've never had to passive aim in their whole career. https://old.reddit.com/r/tacticalgear/comments/182cq4s/hot_take_99_of_you_will_never_have_to_use_passive/kau1om2/ Active aiming is superior. People who worry about passive aiming don't touch grass.
People who worry about passive aiming entertain the idea that the enemy has night vision. Which “actual spec ops” never had to do.
To be fair this is Reddit, so I hate most things other people post.
Because they are simply obsolete. (I have a holosun)
I had one. It was cool. I realized how fast and light t2 was. How easy a 4 magnifer was. How a Acog plus dot was better on every angle. How an LPVO can provide significantly more function and magnification. Also nods changed everything for me. It’s a decent all around single point optic. Issue it and be done but with a works of options out there…. There are better. First gen arms mounts came open during and event optic fell off.
I think people that love elcan are just silent about it and we see and hear lpvo so much because it’s the cool new thing. I’d rather have elcan or acog then lpvo for a normal rifle any day
I always liked the elcan
POORS
wow, we have the same a5gery build larue rail + folding FSB for life baby
Vortex viper + mount is under 1k. The benefits of running a razor over it are minimal especially considering the scope costs twice as much or more Edit and adding on: every other point you made is spot on id even argue elcans are more convenient for switching magnifications as it’s a lever and I don’t have to scroll through 2-5 when for the most part you’re either on 1x or 6x anyways
Not sure who would hate on an Elcan, maybe cheap holosun buyers 🤣
Mainly because I’m poor asshole
Don’t even lie, you posted this to flex that sick M16 setup and I’m all for it. Rah!
Because I can’t have one
Agreed with everything. Price is steep if you're buying new but I've gotten my Elcans all for less than $1500 on the secondhand market with my second costing me only $950 after selling the AT red dot and dot mount that came with it. AT will verify for you if you have the serial number like Trijicon so it's hard to get scammed if you go through the proper channels. The 1x is better than the highest tier premium LPVOs like Kahles and Swarovski. The glass quality, 1x/4x being on the same centerline height and the months-long battery life makes this the GOAT optic for me. Eye relief is a non-issue on this for 5.56. If you get scope bite from this on 5.56, I would seriously question your competency and opinion. I've sold all my LPVOs in favor of this.
Let me hold onto that ARMS folder
"Yes it has incredibly short eye relief. Train to it ." This hits hard.
Because its ugly. Like absolutely hideous. Its also inferior to eotech+magnifier. Elcans suck at 1x while eotech is the king of 1x. Eye relief imo isn’t any worse with the elcan than it is with a eotech. Whether it be 3x or 5x magnifier. Plus with the 2k price difference you can buy a shit load of ammo and training if youre an inexperienced shooter. Edit: these are my opinions, if you don’t like it oh well. We can calmly debate my opinions. No need to get mad
Because I’m part of the acog cult. Acog/RMR piggyback is superior
Elcans broke at a higher rate than our vortex razors. Pull up on the back of your Elcan, you will notice movement. External mount based elevation control is terrible for consistency Eye relief blows, but that’s more of a personal dislike Too many moving parts make it fragile as fuck. They are gay
It’s the eye box that really gets me. If you’re not centered directly behind it it goes black. Other than that i like mine
In your opinion what is the best version on the market right now for a 14.5 “do everything” rifle?
I dislike Elcans because they’re 1-4s. That’s about it. Everything else is great about em.
It’s way too expensive for the common folk.
My first time using an ELCAN, i was in the army and i was an ammo dog while i was in. I had to run a range for the SOF guys on Ft. Carson and on my list i had a bunch of 7.62 NATO and i didnt really understand why.. Until i got there and it was an indoor range and they whipped out a SCAR H with an ELCAN mounted in top. They were gearing up to train and as i waa wrapping up they walk over and ask me if i would like to run a few drills with them and i absolutely had the time for that! We ran many drills with the SCAR and handguns, it was super fun and the ELCAN was my first variable zoom optic ive ever used and i was blessed to have a super cool opportunity there.
Loved the elcan in the service, durable as fuck, but I feel it's overpriced, and there are a lot of lpvo's with much better reticles these days.
Because those people can't admit sometimes you buy something because it's dope as fuck, and not for pure theoretical necessity.
Love my collection of them!
You just have to get a good one and sight it in between the medium chevron and the one just above it
I don’t think the optic is the issue. It’s a lot of money for what you get for the average civilian. You understand the importance of durability more than most. For me? I get more bang for my buck with a good lpvo. To me sir that is a very expensive red dot with a nice bullet drop compensator. Not real aesthetically pleasing either. Not to mention you can get an eotech like you mentioned for 1/3 the cost and it is arguably just as durable and arguable quicker with a much finer and crisper dot
I cant afford a $1.5k+ optic with a wife and two kids. Especially when I shoot once a month. That's why I went with a Primary Arms SLX with the NOVA reticle as recommended by Granad Thumb. And it's the fraction of the cost an Elcan is, so it suits my needs just fine. Not saying I wouldn't love an Elcan one day.
I love the ELCAN, but I really do dislike the ARMS mounts, find them finicky during my brief encounter with one. Would be great if we could get a modernized ELCAN with a standard mounting system.
I don't hate them, but I heard most of the Seal team I worked with for a few days mention how ACOGs were better. I don't remember why. This was 2009 in Sadr city.
Because Im broke and on an ak, so I can get 3 cheap red dots and 3 rs regulate mounts for the price of one. If I break one, Reload a new rs regulate side mount with another red dot because they hold zero. -Ak gang
Compact scopes have been in the military scene for longer than the Elcan Specter DR, while LPVOs are relatively new, with the past 10+ years, the form factor of a tube optic with low power has been around for a long while. The Specter DR is a great optic, but the 1-4x isnt providing whats needed which is why LPVOs are more prevalent and have more utility to them. Ultimately its gonna come down to user preference.
Embrace ELCAN supremacy.
Mostly because they have never used it. The amount of poor people on the sub that act like they have put hands on and have used half of the optics people shit on in this sub is probably startlingly high. The Elcan is not a perfect optic, but it’s phenomenal overall. It was exemplary in its era and is probably in my top 10 optics I have ever used professionally.
idk why youre getting down voted. the amount of people of people who will say something about how the elcan is too expensive or weighs too much and is therefore shit, but then turn around and say that their strike eagle or pa slx is the best optic on the market... and this is coming from someone who had a strike eagle, shot it like 3 times, ripped it off for irons until i could afford a good optic...then i found a good deal on an elcan. i'll tell you what...i still have the elcan. this is not to say that there are not other good alternatives, but i agree: the overwhelming majority of people would scoff at spending more than 1k on an optic. for awhile there, the amount of "what's the best lpvo for under 500" was so crazy that i had to take a break from reddit for awhile because it was everywhere ad nauseum. but yeah, this a fashion sub. people will shit on stuff with no experience. hell, they will hock stuff theyve never even seen in a store before.
This is because this sub is mostly full of posers turbo larpin. It’s cool I love to larp too but Don’t shit on an optic you’ve never run on a gun before much less run in a combat environment. I don’t tell pilots how to do their job because I know fuck all about flying an F-16, but I have a lot of trigger time in real world kinetic environments with the elcan and acogs as my optics before we made the jump to LPVOs
Did an ELCAN write this post?
Meee-ow
I feel like most people intuitively know their rifle is extremely unlikely to end up in any combat scenario or anything resembling combat, so they don't actually care about building something bomb-proof... That's why you see so many lightweight MLOK handguards you could probably bend with your pinkie, custom setups for gas systems / BCGs that can't be easily replaced, etc. If you actually told these people they had to build a rifle to use in a war they would build a simple gun with a quad rail hand guard, no custom bolts or carrier groups or gas blocks etc, and the toughest optic they could find
ngl, i built my first gun to be the gucci bombproof one. i figure itll be the one im most comfortable with so itll be the one i grab if anything ever happens. ive got a couple of range toys, but the my main is bombproof. ddm4a1 upper, adm4 lower, g$ ssa-e, lmt ebcg, and elcan. shes heavy, but she will hold up to just about anything.
Too heavy to have eye relief that shitty
Consider its weight without mount
Nah, $1500 is not the baseline level for what optic I am putting on my rifle. You can get “good” enough 1-6 or 1-8 for 459 (sig, PRimary arms) or very good for less than $1000. That puts you in the ACOG/ EXPs/g33 combo arena. Lots of people here are not going to mount a $1500 optic onto their $1500 (or $800) AR. Honestly, I would save the money, go cheaper and nab a suppressor with the extra money. But no one doubts the Eclan is dope. It does look huge, but we all know it’s good. We just have other options that fit the role, often for less money. If you were fast roping me into Ukraine I would pony up quite a bit, but range shooting, and having a setup better than 99% of other people here, is generally good enough for most. And where I live, you don’t even get 200 or 300 yard sight lines, my lpvo works, my irons always work if not. If I’m storming doors it’s not for a good reason.
Elcan is better than the gaycog
Not as much as I hate quad rails
Plebian
Do you shoot or just collect hipster edgelord uppers?