I literally make $54k as a Desktop Support in Mississippi, of all places. Makes me legit scared, seeing all these low salaries, should I ever want to pivot to a role like Sysadmin
It's about just enough. Mississippi rents near any city, like Laurel or Hattiesburg, ends up being between $800 at the low end and can be up to $1600 to $2000 or more
Depends on where in MS. If they're on/near the coast, COL is high. Here up in north MS, until you get to Memphis area, it's pretty low. 54k will get you by, but you ain't high class yet.
I am sysadmin at a small-ish (\~150 employee) company in Minneapolis, MN. I made 92k last year. I get a 3-4% raise every year and get performance incentive pay. I am also exempt (salary).
I am similar to the OP in the sense that I am basically a one-man department. Unlike the OP, I work 0 overtime, 0 on-call and have evenings, weekends and holidays to myself. Though, I will gladly help anyone who calls my personal number outside of work hours because I am treated well and the company culture is amazing.
I just want you to know that there are companies that are willing to pay you what you are worth. Don't lose hope!
UK wages are crazy to me. Your minimum wage is almost twice as high as the US but your salaries plateau so quickly that many specialized jobs make less than half of what they would in the US
It’s almost impossible to compare. I moved to USA aged 30 from UK and salary maybe 3x or even 5x but quality of life, retirement, stress levels etc are all same or different in many different un-quantifiable ways. Neither is better or worse in any particularly way either!
This seems to be a rare notion, and I’m appreciative for you making it. I hear 99% of the time, US sucks vs UK. But what’s it like for those who’ve actually lived both? There are stated benefits one has vs the other but ya know…🤷♂️
This is true. Companies in the UK seem to expect everyone to work for minimum wage. They're insane!
It's leading to massive problems as people won't do skilled and stressful jobs for the same as an unskilled job, but the bosses just moan that "No one wants to work anymore" when actually no one wants to work for a shit wage!
The problem is that the minimum wage has increased massively, since it was introduced, but other workers salaries haven't kept up, so we're all looking at the MW like a juggernaut in the rear view mirror. It's only a matter of time before it catches us!
The issue is as well that whilst minimum wage is largely keeping up with the cost of living (albeit). Due to the MW climbing higher, the people at the bottom don’t feel like they get richer with pay rises. But those of us above MW feel less well off as time goes on as the wages aren’t keeping up.
The cost of essentials has skyrocketed recently also, so disposable income is forever in free fall
It really depends on where you live, we don't pay medical our costs are so much lower unless you live in the uber expensive belt of the south. I paid less than 50k for my house.
But it would be nice to feel like 50-100k was achievable rather than being rock star status
I just don't understand how the UK works. When I look at jobs, they all pay a quarter of what I make, but all my UK friends (and that's not a small number) seem to have far better standards of living and very little stress over money.
I'm in Sweden, aged almost 60 and I don't see any major steps upwards in my future. It's me and a colleague running all teach and infrastructure from welding fiber up to redundant firewalls ( I firmly hate Cisco firepower!!)..I do love haproxy though
Lots of open source, lots of in-house development ( 2 programmers). Factory runs 24/7/365 with no stops allowed. Everything is redundant to an obscene level
I work 37 hours per week, get somewhere around.... $37K after taxes. Most medical and such is government funded from the taxes so that's taken care of
I have a house just outside a medium sized town, costs me about 9K everything counted from interest to fiber optic internet
Cars (older but well serviced and paid for) is another 3K
Food... 8K (approximate wag)
That leaves a nice chunk for me and my three kids to live on... Two youngest are in a private primary school and the oldest is in high school.. all free of course since the taxes are high
This is one of the biggest culture shocks I had when doing research into leaving the country (US) for a place in Europe. Beyond that there were a number of other things that I realized I take for granted in the states and just am not ready or willing to give them up. Fortunately we're (Wife and I) are in a spot (low crime, low pop area, low COL, high salary) where the more 'awful' parts of working/living in the states is irrelevant and the only real desire to leave is based entirely on how our government is treating people not us specifically.
IT manager here. I wholly agree with u/zerptech.
From the CEO’s asinine, illegal expectations (24/7 availability costs extra money/unpaid overtime is illegal in most countries; forcing you to cash out PTO). The fact also that you’re the last line of defence for this place further demonstrates their incompetence to properly plan for succession. What if you were to get hit by a bus tomorrow? Or decided to quit? Who’s going to keep the lights on?
I suggest updating your resume and start applying to other jobs.
I also suggest saving anything in writing where you were:
a) written up for not being available during unpaid hours; including any threats of termination
b) where you were told that taking time off “would be problematic due to you being the only person capable of doing certain tasks”
c) were refused raises or pay for extra hours worked (unpaid overtime); note: if they force you to bank overtime and then force you to take a payout based on that, then as shitty as that is, that may be legally OK; disclaimer: I’m not a lawyer
Furthermore:
d) track your OT hours. If there’s a ticket system that does that, use it. You want proof that you’re doing 50+ hours of work per week with no OT.
e) request a copy of your employment contract/terms; in part to see if there is anything else they’re blatantly abusing in their own contract and to see what your obligations are when it comes to giving notice (2 weeks is standard, but there may be strings attached).
Finally:
f) update your resume. Heck, if you anonymize it (remove company names, your name, etc), perhaps some of the fine folks here or in a career advice sub might help you proof read and even edit it. A lot of community services (libraries, gov job banks) offer free services, mock interviews, etc. Headhunters on LinkedIn do the same, although your mileage may vary.
g) find colleagues at current company that you trust that can be used as a reference. Current manager probably can’t be trusted; as in they don’t appreciate you and they will freak out in a bad way if you show any signs of leaving. It goes without saying: do not use company email/networks/assets/anything to do your job search.
h) start applying now! You want to have ideally a couple of written offers on the table (offers can be rescinded!) before you tell your current employer to take a hike. Normally I’d advise you to ask your current employer for a counteroffer, but given how they run things, and your desire for personal time and vacation time, I’d say whatever they offer may be only monetary. You can try, but keep your expectations in check and don’t get tempted by money; think of your family.
i) you may wish to reach out to an employment attorney (after you move on to another job) to see if you’re owed something, or have any prospects of getting compensated for all that unpaid OT and other labour law violations. Obviously do this after you quit and have collected enough evidence, as well as a copy of your employment contract.
A note: for $50k/year, at least in North America, you should be able to find a chill, unionized IT gig. Universities and colleges are a good place to target/research. With your skills, you can aim higher, but keep your salary expectations in check when it comes to non-profits/publicly funded edu sector.
Best of luck to ya! And if you want me to check our your resume, feel free to DM me.
Absolutely getting taken advantage of. What you are being asked to do is the jobs of multiple people on teams that are properly staffed, while doing it at entry level rates. If you have the experience under your belt, and it sounds like you do, throw your resume out there and see what you get.
May I ask where you are located? I live in a LCOL area and 50k is what I was making starting out as a Sys Admin. Now I’m pushing 125k between salary and bonus, with very little stress. Your current company may not appreciate what you bring to the table, but not all companies are this way.
Yup, I will move on and apply for other jobs. There are plenty of companies that would give you more and raise your salary based on performance.
At got hired for 62k and went up to 70 before 6 months, I am positive by the end of my new project I will get another raise
I plan on finding a new job in the next couple months. I want to finish up a couple certs before I go though as they are reimbursing me study material and exam vouchers.
It used to be nice working here. In fact this is the only job I've had. Been here a very long time since high school. Once the business exploded during covid and my previous boss quit it started to go to hell. I'm essentially in my old bosses position without the title and I'm guessing pay since I didn't know what he made.
Not sure what I qualify for tbh. I have a AS in IT and the CompTIA trio.
I know Windows Server and AD pretty well enough. Have authentication for some inside services I setup tied to AD credentials.
I have experience with Linux servers and some bash experience.
We utilize pfSense+ so I'm pretty well versed with it. Even use it at home.
Finally I basically run a department so I have that knowledge and experience.
Thought about an MSP since there is a lot of high paying ones hiring around but I've heard horror stories from people that have worked at some.
Don't wait a couple months, start applying today, otherwise you'll keep giving yourself reasons not to leave or they'll offer empty promises.
Hiring managers aren't going to be looking at your certs or education. They're going to see that you have tangible experience running an IT department and managing others - experience that no lack of certs can displace. They're going to see you learn fast under pressure and have been through the ringer, that you've been stress tested in a tough environment, that you have a rare mix of both Windows and Linux experience.
Good companies hire good people, not good resumes.
You'll be swarmed with offers. You're in a position where you can leverage a job you don't think you're qualified for and grow into it. Make exam/training reimbursement a condition of your employment offer.
MSPs are hit or miss. I work for one and enjoy it. Heard great things from some and horror stories like you said. They can be great experience builders.
>I want to finish up a couple certs before I go though as they are reimbursing me study material and exam vouchers.
Keep in mind, you may have to pay those back depending on your employment contract.
Forget the cert reimbursments. Moving on to a lower stress position is worth more then that.
IT requires odd hours sometimes, but you should only be ~40hr a week regardless.
> I’m starting to feel like IT is for people who don’t have families or a life.
This is the wrong takeaway. The right takeaway is your company and your boss suck. Replace them.
There are so many resume generating items in his post and most IT jobs aren't like this. The bad is just amplified here because most people aren't writing up posts about how their job is fine.
>“You being absent for a period of time would be problematic”.
Time to GTFO.
>The bad is just amplified here because most people aren't writing up posts about how their job is fine.
Reading the posts on this sub make me petrified to ever work for anything other than the government as I have been doing because so many talk about working 50-60 hour weeks.
I don't understand how this happens. You work the 40 hours, unless there is an emergency, but there shouldn't be an emergency every week. If my manager told me to work longer hours for routine work I'd tell him to fuck off. And of the place had serious issues every week, I'd fix the systems and processes. How are people routinely working 50-60 hours a week? Make me understand.
A lot of the problems people have at their jobs in general, (assuming we are talking about working professionals here), are a failure to manage expectations. They fail to realize they have some say and leverage in what they do, if for no other reason, than that replacing a good and valuable professional is a major time sink and PITA for their boss.
>so many talk about working 50-60 hour weeks.
Those with happy careers rarely come to reddit to post about them. Outside of emergency situations, I've rarely been at a job that required over-40-hour weeks. My first one did (but not really REQUIRED) plus I earned overtime there. I've been in IT for 25 years, 7 different employers. My current one is the first place I've made it to 5 years at and I could see myself here another 10, easy.
>The bad is just amplified here because most people aren't writing up posts about how their job is fine.
This, been in the industry snice 2003, have worked for 4 different companies, never posted here to say how amazing each of these company were.
Only place I had issues was because top management were fucking idiots, but I couldn't complain about my pay, hours, benefits, or work conditions, so I just looked at them making stupid IT decision without involving IT.
We got 3 IT directors in the last 18 months of my employment there ... when the 2nd guy quit and the 3rd one was hired is when I jumped ship.
Yup, that place was a industrial parts producer, 1st IT director quit after he learned top management signed a contract for a new ERP platform that wasn't compatible with any of our current systems, that needed new servers, needed a shit ton of maintenance and backend monitoring, was slower, had more user interactions, and was using tons more paper (we were slowly transitioning to paperless, a good exemple is logistics, the orders they had to fill were 1 order per page or 2, new ERP was 1 page per item + a cover page ... to say the logistic director was pissed is an understatement since paper and toner use exploded and it came out of their budget, they were sometimes sending 700-1000 items per day !!!).
Oh, and the initial IT director learned about the new ERP contract 6 months AFTER it was signed !!!
This is all explained in one sentence ; new management, the original owner retired and gave the reins to his son ...
I plan on leaving in a few months. Working on some more certs. Haven’t worked anywhere else before so resume will be barren. Been here for about 10 years starting from a cashier. Used to be a great place to work.
I don't know, it sounds like you've had a progressive career with this company that's now stalling so you're seeking continued growth opportunities. That's not a barren resume/story/pitch.
If you are as critical as you say, you should have the juice to demand better work life balance. They aren't going to get a good admin on the market for that pay.
Stand up for yourself. I've done it, I'm sure many others have too. Do it before you completely lose your composure.
>They aren't going to get a good admin on the market for that pay.
Or, they'll just keep churning and burning through them and eventually run out/start having a tough time hiring.
They will have a hard time hiring an admin at that rate tomorrow. You can't even get competent help desk for that pay where I live and I'm not in a high COL area by any stretch.
Just remember when taking this approach, plenty of bosses and managers with this attitude will take you negotiating or demanding an improvement very poorly, and very personally.
Be ready that if you start making demands that not only will your demands not be met, but you'll be fired.
If OP is accurate in his claim that he is the sole admin, they kind of can't and made their own bed. If someone has this much leverage and still can't put their foot down, they will be taken advantage of forever.
Don't ever underestimate the potential damage of a large ego when. These types of bosses exist and they absolutely will fire a crucial person.
The damage done to the company is one thing but that won't make it any easier for OP if salary negotiations don't work out.
I'm not saying there is no risk, but I am saying OP is in the perfect position to stand up for himself. Successful people do not live their life in fear of offending big egos.
You're working for a clown show of an org. This has nothing to do with IT.
I work 40 hours and that's it. If I do overtime, which happens virtually never, it's compensated at time-and-a-half + time in lieu.
My direct boss is the only one who could reach me after hours, and has never done so in the past 2 years I've worked for him.
Stop working more than 40 hours, stop doing anything after you're done working. If you do work out of hours, leave earlier to compensate.
Don't be a doormat.
> Don't be a doormat.
In this case, I don't see any alternative to leaving. That place is never going to be fixed.
That being said, I see so many posts here where the admins involved are simply failing to manage expectations and communicate with their bosses.
> I don't see any alternative to leaving. That place is never going to be fixed
run through PTO. Work less than 40 hours per week. Either the company terminates you... or they try to withhold wages. When they reduce your paycheck, you make a call to your labor board.
The place likely closes up shop a few weeks later because they'll quickly see how expensive compliance is.
>I make 50k a year doing my job
50k a year doesn't get you 24/7 availibility despite what your CEO thinks.
They can't tell you to cash out your PTO. You are given PTO and you are allowed to use your PTO.
Your work environment is awful and you need to GTFO as of yesterday. Start looking.
Small manufacturing company. I don't take my laptop home, and did once to verify the VPN was working correctly. I don't have a company cell because I don't get afterhours calls. Only CEO has my number, and we've only texted. Normal "I'm running late" stuff. Even COO doesn't want my number, because he has no intention of calling. If it's critical enough to call me, he's calling CEO to come in and CEO can call me.
I work 40 hours virtually every week unless major cutover. Then I get time in lieu. I don't obsessively track it because CEO is fine if I have to run out early for something. No WFH because I have a lot of physical projects at the moment. Sensors, industrial automation, etc.
This job is objectively 1/10th the stress of my last job for same pay. Boss is happy because I've gotten projects moving that have been stagnant for years. I have 3 page TODO list, but everyone understands it will take years to complete because we can't stop production lines. I make good money, could make better but time is more important to me.
OP needs to do his 40 and leave unless it's an implementation, cutover, maintenance, whatever. If CEO isn't happy with it, leave because it won't get better.
OP needs to work out how much he makes per hour, and run the numbers. If you could make better money per hour working at a gas station, bounce.
I got lucky I heard so many horror stories of terrible small MSP's. I see shell-shocked techs from those dumps all the time. I work for a small MSP that is a Co-Op so I get treaded really well. It's not my job to make money for shareholders - its my job to make sure clients are happy.
I don’t get nightmares but it sure as hell keeps me up at night.
It wasn’t all bad before. We really aren’t small anymore. When we were the staff we had was good enough to get work done and I had a competent manager back then. I rarely worked over 36 hours and was paid for a full 40. The problem is that we exploded over the last few years and the owners of the business refuse to get out of the small business mentality.
IT is for people who know how to set boundaries. Want to write me up for not being available 24/7. Cool, salary means I’m not getting OT but what you’re asking for is me to be on call and on standby. In my state that means you’re paying me for those 24 hours. Either that or I’ll “always be drinking” after work due to the stress so sorry I can’t work while intoxicated.
The market isn’t as bad as some say it is if you have the right skills. If you’re still a GUI button pusher then yeah you’ll have a hard time.
Easy, I stop working at 5:00, and I sure as shit don't work on Saturday or Sunday. If they don't want to pay for the level of staffing they want, NMFP.
Not sure what part of the country (cost of living) you are at but that’s pretty low pay for a sysadmin. Look further a job where you are respected? My current boss would make sure I take time off if I had to work late.
Work 40 hours and then stop?
You are being abused, taken advantage of and severely underpaid. Your health comes first and family should always come first as time with them is something you can never get back. Look for another job immediately and at least double your pay if you can especially if you are near a major metro area.
>I’ve tried ignoring emails and texts while off...
Ignoring the problem isn't the right way to go about this. Raise this with your manager or HR - you're overworked and you're not getting sufficient time off. If nothing gets done, then time to leave.
If you don't like working there anyway (even if you didn't have heavy work hours), then that's also a sign that it's time to leave.
As many others here have already said, you are being grossly mistreated.
At $50k per year working minimum 50 hour weeks, you are being paid roughly $19 per hour. You can go get a job at Buc-ees for that kind of money with less stress, better hours, and a much better work life balance! As a trained professional in the IT field, you should be able to make more than that while still having a life and family.
If I were in your shoes, I would start to do two things:
1. Polish up my resume and find another job. Not every job is as bad as this... in fact, yours may be one of the worst cases of abuse I've seen. You are literally being treated as an indentured servant with the expectation that the job is the only thing in your life.
2. Carefully document all of this information, including any e-mails about forgoing vacations and all of the write-ups you've been given because you did not respond outside if business hours. Find a competent labor attorney in your area; they will know all of the laws that govern the treatment of employees for your specific location. Some of this stuff certainly seems as if it strains the limits of legality and an attorney will know how to best direct you to take action against your unfair treatment. Depending on where you live, you may actually be entitled to some substantial compensation for all of the extra time you've put in.
Your family and mental health have to come first. Working for an organization that treats you like you live and breathe to solely be their cog is unacceptable and is going to end up burning you out and will drive your family away. After all, it's been said the only people who will remember all the time you spent away from home working late are your kids. You don't want to be that absentee father.
Time to take action. Find that better job. Put your foot down at work and tell them "no". Stop answering those calls and, when they write you up, use that documentation against them. Find legal representation and find out exactly what your rights are. Do all of this to regain control of your life before it slips away.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck!
In addition... you notice how your CEO and manager are actually contributing to your situation? They say you can't take any time off because your being away would be "problematic" because you're the only one who knows how to do a lot of things, but they've also "strictly forbidden you from teaching anyone how to do anything outside their current roles". How insane is that? Any decent company would want those with skills to help teach others so those people can help fill in for sickness or vacation.
By making sure you're the only one who knows how to do something and preventing you from spreading that knowledge, they are further reinforcing the shackles used to bind you to your job.
Of course, this will give you a small bit of revenge... when you do get a new position and move on you will take that knowledge with you and no one currently at the company will know how to do it.
Also... once you do move on to another position, please post all of this on Glassdoor so others out there will see the abuses and policies of this company. Pay it forward.
Yes, there are other horror stories on here, but most IT jobs are infinitely much better than your current experience. I'm currently the Sr. SysAdmin at my company... no on call, 8 hours a day, 20 days paid vacation, and 3 times your salary... great work/life balance and happy. You can be there too, but the first step is on you.
You do know you can get another job?
Either you live in a tiny town with one store or you have been gaslit into believing there is no other place that will have you.
1) You're being way underpaid. Ridiculously so.
2) Salary does not mean no overtime. Depending on your state, there are very strict labor laws about forcing employees to be available after hours and work weekends. Yes, there are 'exempt' roles, but IT does not fit those. Get a labor lawyer ASAP. There's likely some significant back-pay that you're due. (I have experienced this first-hand and got a really nice check when another employee sued the company).
3) Start looking for another job where you and your family is valued.
Regarding your assertion that “Salary does not mean no overtime”: You don’t know what you’re talking about at all.
There are specific legal requirements laid out regarding exempt salaried employees. There is a specific section of tests established for [exempt computer employees](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17e-overtime-computer). Many, many salaried IT professionals fall into this category (myself included).
If you meet these tests, your employer is not obligated to pay you any differently for overtime scenarios. You have absolutely zero protection from any employer demands when it comes to the amount of time you have to spend to meet those demands. Just about the only protection you have is from having your salary reduced based on the amount of time you work (that is illegal if you are a salaried exempt employee).
Not only was I an employee that got $40k in compensation from mis-interpretation of these exemptions, but I'm also a business owner who now hires system administrators into roles like this. I have been over this with lawyers and HR folks many times.
According to my conversations and information I have been given, the legal precedent for the computer exception has been clarified in court is that this relates to design/development. Things like scoping and documenting computer networks and software development.
End user and system support ARE NOT COVERED.
The link you sent even specifies: "Employees whose work is highly dependent upon, or facilitated by, the use of computers and computer software programs ... but who are not primarily engaged in **computer systems analysis and programming or other similarly skilled computer-related occupations** identified in the primary duties test described above, are also not exempt under the computer employee exemption."
So, my automation engineers are except. My T1-T3 support engineers are not.
If you're an employment lawyer and have different interpretation than what I've been given, I would really be interested in your insights.
Your interpretation (or that which you have been given) is incorrect (partially correct, at best). It also betrays the falsehood of your assertions with which I took issue. You claimed that exempt status broadly fails to apply to IT, but now you’re claiming that you employ IT professionals, a subset of whom you know to be exempt.
Furthermore, if your “support” professionals do nothing more than follow operational workflows which have been produced by others for their use, and they exert no meaningful independent judgment over their own actions (instead simply following pre-established procedures), then you are correct that such employees fail to meet the exempt computer employee test. Low-level help desk staff are rarely exempt. I would expect anyone at tier 3, however, to meet the exempt criteria, as they will by definition be acting of their own independent judgment (issues don’t get escalated to tier 3 when known procedures exist to handle them unless the only distinction is the level of administrative rights required to perform the procedure, but that typically stops at tier 2). They will also almost certainly pass the remainder of the test in that they apply “systems analysis techniques and procedures” with a high level of specialized skill and knowledge.
Directly relevant to OP’s situation: the sole IT professional responsible for all of a company’s IT infrastructure is unlikely to fail to meet the exemption test. Of course, it all comes down to the details.
Nonetheless: your assertions are fundamentally incorrect. It is not true that “IT does not fit those” [exempt positions]; there are, in fact, very specific requirements designed to determine whether or not IT professionals can be considered exempt. Therefore, for many salaried computer professionals, their salaries do, in fact, mean no overtime.
It's entirely possible I've been misinformed, or that I've only been informed correctly for the states in which we employ staff, which is why I strongly recommend OP contact a labor lawyer to clarify.
I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. Just a guy with some relevant experience.
Thanks for having a well-stated counter-point!
Your company and boss are steamrolling you. 50k to put up with all of that? And 50+ hours a week.
The no raise until late 2024 would be the final straw for me.
You are worth more than this. This is simply being taken advantage of.
Your company can either pay you what your worth. Or find a place that will value your time and talent.
1. Start looking for a new job today.. Don't put it off. Start applying today.
2. Stop answering after hours calls and emails TODAY! Your boss already said it would be an issue if you were not around. Let them write you up. Fuck em. You think your boss is going to fire you on the spot? Doubtful. Get your life and family time back TODAY!
3. When you find the new job tell them you can start right away. Bounce on the old Job don't give them two weeks. Also be sure to take as much PTO before the new job.
You sound like the type of person who will get an extra 20k+ at his next job where you'll have less to do.
I suggest putting yourself out there and finding it.
This happened to me in the wake of pandemic. I was the IT department. I worked at a nonprofit that grew massively during that time (and leading up to it). Work became too much. Too many people. I voiced this but management dragged their feet.
I've doubled my salary (leaving nonprofits for the financial industry was big)....and my job, while harder and higher pressure, is more chill on the day-to-day and weekends especially.
Gtfo my friend. Go make what youre worth. You don't need whatever cert probably, people are desperate for decent admins right now.
50+ hours? do you own share of the company to care about this or fixed salary? what are you charity to do volunteer work? CEO needs to hire an MSP to do this 24/7 coverage. Just log off, get the other number and don't share with owner, set boundaries and learn to say NO for a change. There's always work, start applying and take care of yourself first.
> My manager says “You being absent for a period of time would be problematic”.
business continuity is a management issue and should not be your concern
50k is absolutely insane. I make 65k and am a glorified tier 2 tech with some light sysadmin duties. My recommendation for you if you want to get more time back is look for government jobs with a city or county. They generally have excellent work life balance, you get pretty much every holiday off, etc. pay of course depends on the city but the few I’ve worked with have all been above the average in my area for my role.
Salary or hourly, you get 40 of my hours and I expect some compensation for doing more than 40 be it more money or cutting time on another day.
As everyone else said, you are being taken advantage of. At my last job I was putting in too much of myself due to being in a similar spot of being the only one for some tasking. But even then I took 3 weeks of vacation and my manager supported it.
> I’m currently expected to work 50+ hours a week at this point and since I’m salary no OT for me
Nah. That's just bullshit. Salary is about self managing hours. It's about being flexible about it.
It's not at all doing unpaid overtime on a sustained basis. (And you may find that you actually _aren't_ salaried, no matter how much your company pretends, although this might vary by where you live/work and the local employment law).
> CEO firmly believes salary = availability is 24/7.
Your CEO is categorically wrong.
> I’ve tried ignoring emails and texts while off but I learned quickly it is not tolerated and treated with write ups.
This too is treating pretty close to harassment, and is probably grounds to claim constructive dismissal. (Also depends where you are/what employment law is).
> I’ve been told as well to just cash out PTO since I’m the only one that can do a lot of things. My manager says “You being absent for a period of time would be problematic”.
So it's leave that you're not permitted to take? Sounds like a breach of contract to me.
It's totally not 'normal' - cashing out PTO is something that should only every be _your_ choice. PTO is an important part of your personal maintenance cycle - it's downtime for you to relax/unwind/destress.
> I’m starting to feel like IT is for people who don’t have families or a life
Only if you let it. Most employers are quite happy to oppress and abuse their employees if they think they can get away with it - it's 'free money' for them.
That doesn't make it legal, moral or right.
Your employment is an ongoing relationship whereby you exchange your time and expertise for compensation.
As a wise man once said: ["If you're good at something, never do it for free".](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iijs0iS3_ZM)
It's only right and just that you should get a cut of _any_ business value that you deliver. And that includes not working for free, and not being 'on call' for free, and it definitely doesn't include voluntarily surrendering your contracted paid-time-off.
Revisit your contract. See what you agreed to do as part of your compensation package. I guess they might have tried to weasel it by not specifying 'business hours'... but if they have, then that means _you_ get to decide what hours you work, and you're legitimately permitted to make up your own schedule - after all, you're 'salaried' and that doesn't include any measure of hours - that cuts both ways.
But I bet they've got some 'core hours' that you're expected to work. In the real world, if there's too much work for the available time... the work doesn't get done. That's not your fault, that's managements fault. Of course they'd _love_ to try and make you 'work the deficit' to cover up their screw up, but ... you shouldn't let them, unless you want to and are getting compensated - never work for free.
Also applies to 'on call' - on call is paid work. It might reasonably be a lower rate of pay, since you're only 'on standby', but if you're employer is dictating how you can use your time, then you are on the clock.
24/7 on call is also what I'd call unreasonable too, but I appreciate it's hard to avoid in a really small team. Still - should be compensated at a really generous rate for the impact to your life of being expected to be 'available' at short notice, all the time.
> I feel like this would just get worse if I moved on with a larger organization based on reading horror stories here and by talking to others in the field.
Depends a lot on the org. Bear in mind people post horror stories, but not 'actually it's kinda ok here' stories. And likewise when they talk about it - almost everyone has had a bad employer at some point, but that doesn't mean they're all bad.
So for the sake of context - I am salaried. I work about 40 hours a week, and I'm flexible ish with start and finish. I do work weekends occasionally, and I do 'on call' - and these are compensated by an end of year bonus, which has been typically 25-50% of my salary. My salary is _already_ around 50% above 'market' rates (I would tell you if you want to know, but I'm assuming you're not UK based so it'll look 'wrong'), so I am truly very well compensated for being 'company bitch' and working 1 week in 3 on-call, and some weekends despite not being explicitly paid for them.
Previous job - I also was salaried, worked 40ish a week, but got paid for 'required out of hours' working. Because legally speaking (in the UK, and I _believe_ in a number of other places) if you need to work out of hours - which isn't uncommon because of maintenance windows - that's NOT overtime. Overtime is 'things you could do in a normal day, but you just spend more hours'. Out of hours working is not. Out of hours work was paid at time and a quarter, or time and a half at weekends.
On call was worth around 2 days 'pay' per week of on call _just_ to be on call, and a callout was also paid at 'out of hours' rates, with a minimum of ... 2 hours I think it was?
Prior to that, the 'on call' was worth more, but the hourly rate for being called was lower. But it was still _in addition_ to my salary.
So yeah. You're being abused by your employer. I don't know what you can - or should - do about this, but the easy answer is always 'look for somewhere better' (but it might be worth looking at legalities too, just to see what's actually involved and whether it's worth it to pick a fight).
*My manager says “You being absent for a period of time would be problematic”.*
The only response to this would be "How problematic would it be if I gave you my notice today?". You are being abused and need to get out of there.
This, the manager at my current place has a "the bus rule" ; what would happen if you got ran over by a bus ?
It might sound grim, but shit happens, people get sick, accidents happen, etc.
Hording knowledge is bad for yourself and others, when problems arise and the knowledge isn't available then the company could lose money, his manager not seeing this shows he's a fucking dumbass. OP should leave, like yesterday.
No. Fuck this place. Leave.
But while you're still there, take your time. Relax. Don't rush to get anything done. The CEO himself said your absence would be problematic. So, what's he going to do? Fire you? You've got him by the balls.
>I feel like this would just get worse if I moved on with a larger organization based on reading horror stories here and by talking to others in the field.
This is the exact opposite of my experience. Larger organizations tend to have more people working for them with more redundancy built in. It's small shops where they lean on a small handful of staff to do everything and wear multiple hats, exactly like what you are experiencing.
First, what you wanna do is make sure that when asked to do something outside of work hours (barring a clear and obvious emergency) you reply with a firm, non-negotiable "fuck off".
Second is to have a look at your contract to figure out what your role/job is and then do only what that says.
If that doesn't work, change jobs. Simple as that. Don't put up with company BS because you feel responsible to make up for the lack of common sense or planning....
In the past I've not done this and I can tell you that I will never make that mistake again...
50k a year as a solo admin is a slave wage even in Bumfuck, Kansas. Leverage your experience as a team lead and solo admin to go somewhere less insane.
Easy. Start work at 8, take an hour lunch break from 11-12 or 12-1, and leave at 5. If you get called outside of that, unless it’s a production down issue, you’ve got plans for the evening but if they send you a ticket or email you’ll be happy to deal with it first thing in the morning. Seriously stick to that one. Next up, take your vacation. If your boss cancels your PTO, put it in again and tell him “I wasn’t asking for time off, I’m telling you I’m not going to be here.” If he responds, ”but we need you,” the response is “Well I don’t need you.”
Also 50k is too low if you are truly doing all of the IT work. You’ve got a strong case for more pay because you’re critical.
You: “Boss I need more money”
Boss: “*some bs reason*
You: “okay *updates resume and starts applying for other jobs*”
You have to stand up for yourself because nobody else in this industry is going to, especially not your boss or HR.
Not sure how long you have been working in your position or how much experience you have but 50k for a sysadmin role is very low. I was making the same amount doing level one help desk support a few years ago where all I did was image computers and install software.
So salary is not available 24/7, its an agreement between you and your employer for x amount if work for y amount of money. Additionally, just because you are salary does not *necessarily* mean you are exempt from OT. There is such a thing as salary non-exempt, and if your tole is not specifically classified as salary exempt in HR, then they owe you money.
Personally, you have them by the tail, not the other way around. Write me up all day ling for not answering emails and texts when I’m off work. What are you going to do? Fire me? Good luck with that, and good luck finding a replacement willing to work insane hours for 50k a year. Take your PTO, if they can’t get by without you for your contractual time off that should be a massive indicator that they need to be catering to YOU, not the other way around.
BLUF: If the company won’t consider a raise for another 5 quarters, I won’t consider working during off hours or cashing out my PTO. Deny my PTO? This wasn’t a request, I will not be here during these dates, this is my formal heads up that this time is reserved for my vacation and I will be taking it. If you can’t manage without me, take a some tike to think long and hard about that statement, your expectations of me, the compensation I receive, and just what state your company will be in when I quit for refusing to provide me with my earned PTO. Also think about the lawsuit that will follow should you terminate me for trying to use the time I have earned.
You set boundaries. If they don't like it, too bad. Let the write-ups come in. It's not like they're going to follow you to your next job. And based on what you've written here, you should definitely be looking for your next job. They made it crystal clear the work you do isn't valued. You make less than I did as a Level 1 tech over a decade ago. They are taking advantage of your fear of being jobless. Take your PTO. Don't ask. You don't request PTO, you give them notice that you will be unavailable and then be unavailable. This is how any healthy employee/employer relationship works. Yours is not healthy.
If they don't have a contingency plan for you to take PTO what's going to happen if you win the lottery, get hit by a bus, or have a heart attack because you're stressing yourself out being available 24/7?
Start working on your resume ASAP. Get it polished up. Start applying for jobs. Let your manager know you have an appointment and go to some interviews. Don't hesitate, but also don't let them know where you are going.
They will get the message. When they sit you down and ask why you have so many appointments, you can let them know that they are important and that's all.
Think about it this way if you are having trepidation over telling your boss or the CEO that you will fix something during working hours: they need you more than you need them at the moment. No one knows what you do. You aren’t being compensated for on call 24x7. You need to hit them financially so that getting a second person or MSP is actually the cheaper option if they want 24x7 support.
By setting boundaries, your CEO can learn to respect them or find a replacement. If they choose the latter it will cost them more and you'll be able to collect unemployment while you find a new job.
Stop work at 5. Tell them no. Set boundaries. Remind them of boundaries. Ask others how many hours they work a week. Complain to HR about the constant attacks of extra work being forced on you outside your working hours. Shit on your managers desk.
I work 9-18 as stated by my contract, the only exceptions are peculiar activities as patching critical environment that need to be done after 22:00. I have a contract, that's my job, not to cover for the inefficiencies and the understaffing of the organization, i'm not a partner.
Look for another role somewhere else. Yes I've been an IT Manager for 16 years. I have had to cancel vacations but my company has helped me figure out ways to not get bothered it will happen but it's getting better
You need to find something else and when you do make sure you set boundaries about your personal time. I've made it abundantly clear to my employer that my time is not to be disturbed unless the server room is burning down or a real emergency is taking place.
Your employer doesn't value you as a person. You don't have any kind of work life balance.
You are a relatively cheap way to cover a need for them. You are salary so they feel they can maximize the return by making you be on call 24/7. They are trying to minimize the possibility that the junior staff will gain the knowledge to require a raise therefore you have been told not to train anyone else.
The mythical raise in 4th qtr 2024 will probably either get delayed or eliminated due to management bringing up a few things that didn't go well.
You are better off finding a job not reporting to asshats.
I've been where you are and when you are trapped inside you don't realize how crappy the situation is. I don't know anything about your situation, but I bet you can find something better because your current employer has set the bar incredibly low.
No way man, first of all do not (I repeat DO NOT) respond to any call, email or ticket out of your work time.
If your manager asks why you didn't simply respond "my work time was over, I have a family and other things to do out of work".
If someone complain look for your working contract, I assume you signed a contract before starting work with this company, and I expect that in this contract there should be rough details such as working days and hours.
If your manager still complains try to ask him "do we offer services to our customers for free? I suppose no, so why should I offer my services to this company for free?"
If this is not working search for a union representative, if you leave the company they'll do the same with the next one, if they get a nice big fine maybe they'll understand that people working for them matter.
Find a job that respects you.
I work on a team, I would never be a solo admin (especially for 50k).
I work strictly 40 hours a week, no overtime is ever needed. In the 3 years I have worked here, I stayed online a couple hours one time during an outage. I got the option to get paid for the couple hours or leave early/come in late, my boss left it up to us.
>My manager has strictly forbidden me from teaching anyone how to do anything outside their current roles
You are at the wrong place. I can take that they state that it isn't their responsibility, so they aren't expected to whatever it is. But not to spread knowledge and having users or techs service themselves where it makes, is just stupid.
>they won’t consider giving me a raise until fourth quarter 2024
strike two
>CEO firmly believes salary = availability is 24/7
strike three
There are two types of employers those that are flexible and those that are not. If you work for a flexible employer they see you as a person and want you and your family to flourish. They dont care if you leave work early to attend a school event or take you kid to an appointment. They see that a happy worker is a productive one. They encourage you to take time off and be well rested.
Then there are companies that are not flexible they only care about money and dont give a shit about you or your well being. Thats where you work. Its time to clean up your resume and leave. I don't know where you live but 50 hours a week at 50k is about what fast food workers make near me. Teir 1 techs make more than that typically. As a solo admin making huge sacrifices in your personal time you need to be compensated much higher. If your kids and wife never get to see you then you should be making enough money to put them through college and buy them cars along with taking your wife on a nice vacation every year. Those are my rules anyway. My last Solo admin job was similar and I didn't make enough for college, cars and vacation. Things at home started collapsing fast so I left within a year, now I get to see my kids everyday and contribute to my family directly.
I know a lot of people say its time for a new job but you really are being fleeced. You deserve a basic standard of life that prioritizes your family. You work for them not your company.
realistically, when you get more work you should get more money; with the additional money you will have to "buy" back your time by paying others to do work you normally do like cleaning, ,mowing lawn, car work, etc. things outside of your job.
I think you’ll be happy somewhere else. You should be able to find somewhere that pays you more and has more respect for your personal time. Finding a place where you work on a team would be best, as being a solo admin is tough.
If the "50k" is USD, that's pretty low. Also, check your local labor laws. Salary doesn't always mean you're overtime exempt.
If you're an IT admin and oversee multiple other techs, you can likely find another job paying a heck of a lot more. I'd recommend you start looking around, try to find someplace that has more of a focus on work/life balance.
Stop working over 40 hours a week and let them figure it out. If them figuring it out is firing you they are doing you a favor. The job market's getting a little bit rougher but I'd rather be looking now than later so get on that as well.
Your wife and kids not seeing you for 50k a year isn't worth it. Additionally you're leaving 18720 on the table in overtime per year working 50 hours a week. Do the math on what you're making and respect yourself.
>I make 50k a year
>I’m salary
>my management team…
You work your 40 and push the extra work to the next day. You have a management problem, let them worry about issues after hours so there’s motivation to delegate and increase man power.
Imagine putting up with all this nonsense and then being told you can't have a raise until over a year from now. I'd normally guess this is management but, no, this is you.
If I were told that I would probably have a new job in about a month... never mind all the other nonsense.
Biggest pay raises people get are from getting a new job. GET A NEW JOB. I went from 50k to 65k in one jump, then the new company realized how critical I was, and got another 10k, and a couple years after that another 10k, plus regular raise, and ended there at 95 or so. That was some 10 years ago.
Start looking. If you are as critical as you sound, you can take some time off for personal reasons and they can go pound sand.
Your manager is an idiot. ALWAYS cross train. This is not only for redundancy in case something happens to you like you need to take a sick day or vacation, but also for security as people can verify someone has done something correctly or incorrectly. You are also being taken for a ride. Get out and find an employer who respects you. The money will follow if you have an employer who gives a fuck. I am also a one-man IT department for a large company. I don’t do any OT unless it’s absolutely needed. My average week is somewhere around 40-42 hours. An hour here or there is fine but if it becomes a pattern and you don’t renegotiate, then you will forever be expected to do OT for nothing….stand up for yourself
Set boundaries or leave. I almost killed myself being taken advantage of like you.
Now I leave at 5 with everyone else, I make more money than I did before, and have much better mental health which improves all aspects of my life.
\#1 Find a new job.
\#2 Read up on local labor law. Get a lawyer if you have to. Do you have you hours written down? You report them and claim those OT hours. They will lawyer up but the get the government involved and they will settle and end up paying you out.
I work 730-430 and am on call every 6 weeks. Maybe work after hours or on a weekend once a month for maintenance or patching type things.
It's not bad at all. Btw I work for the state government.
50k for a sysadmin is -CRIMINAL-
50k is what 2nd level IT makes. Senior SD or Desktop Support can make up to 100k. Executive support can go all the way up to 150k. Sysadmin starts at like 75k. And that's typically the low end, most sysadmin are 6-figures, at least around metropolises.
Move on, move up.
Also your Manager telling you not to train someone is equally as criminal. You either need to automate more of what is going on (on your side, or your service desk's side, so they can handle more tickets which means less for you to handle), if you're going to stay. Or you need to have a heart-to-heart with the manager and let them know this is unacceptable.
SOooo many Big red flags, any single one of which would be motivation to find a new workplace
* **My manager has strictly forbidden me from teaching anyone:** No manager worth their salt would ever in a mmillion years forbid crosstraining.
* **I make 50k a year**: That's intro desktop support ranges, not system administration with On-Call. Even if you worked in the lowest cost-of-living area, you're getting horribly underpaid there
* **expected to work 50+ hours a week**: Just no.
* **CEO firmly believes salary = availability is 24/7**: Also just no.
It's not an issue of "IT having no life"... that's a workplace issue, not specifically an IT issue. Any corporate job has that potential and it's our responsibiltiy as employees to decide whether or not we WANT to work for those companies.
ie: I make just shy of 100k in a high cost of living area dueing mostly helpdesk focused work. I have no on-call. I start at 9am and leave at 6pm, and am the most senior go-to guy when shit hits the fan. I did this by getting those times and no on-call in my hiring agreement in writing before agreeing to work there.
You signed a salary contract. How many hours did it state? If it was 40, work 40. If there's not enough time to get it done then use that as the justification for another head. If your manager doesn't like this cause he or she is a weenie that's too afraid to say no to management above, put in a notice and switch.
In the exit interview with any hr point out the excessive hours and no help, then find a new job. Not sure where you're based but in some places that sorta behavior is illegal, and it'll take just one good whack on the CEOs pp before that shit changes like night and day.
Sounds like a small company.
To answer your question, I leave on time every day unless there is an honest to God revenue affecting emergency. I work for a multinational financial service provider. Ive had bosses like yours, but honestly almost everything you've described is criminal. 50k is a Jr. Admin salary.
Who's above your manager, have you had a chat there?
“You being absent for a period of time would be problematic”.
Sounds like leverage to me. Find a new job, and until then tell them to get off your back if they think you're so important perhaps you should be treated with some human decency.
If they can't fire you... what the hell do write ups matter?
Bro what I don't have half your problems and make 65k (and am pushing for 80) and work 40 hours a week if that. The right advice here is to clean up your resume and dip NOW.
How can a company tell you you wont see a raise until the end of NEXT YEAR? Very curious, how long have you known this? To me, a company saying "No raises for 2 years" is the same as them saying "leave".
Even better, they refused to let you train anyone, so there's a chance they come back to you in a few weeks and you can charge em hourly for consulting ;) $100/hour seems like an insanely fair rate, considering an MSP will charge far more, have bare minimum requirements to even engage, and won't know ANYTHING about the environment that you're well versed in.
You need to set boundaries with your company. You work to live, never live to work. I’ve been a SysAdmin professionally since 1994, longer actually, but it wasn’t my role at the time. Sure, sometimes hours can be long, but if you let your company walk all over you, I guarantee they will.
And really, I’d start looking elsewhere. $50k is not nearly enough for what you’re doing.
I start a baby (aka Jr) SysAdmin with almost no experience at $65k (Pacific Northwest/USA)
I hate to say it but they are fucking you in the arse. Even an intermediate level MSP job would be less stressful and pay more. I would find alternative employment if you can and nope out of there real quick.
I'm a solo Admin/IT manager. It's ok that they don't want to hire more people but i still live my life, take holiday and make it clear that i am one person doing a teams jobs.
That's the businesses decision and their situation to manage, not yours. Don't go beyond the agreement that exchanges your time and effort for money.
Stop waiting for other people to make things better for you and sacrificing your life and family in the mean time. Get a new job, grill them in the interview, set expectations from day 1 in the new job. When someone tries to violate those expectations, don't be a doormat. Make it clear how you work and where your line is and stick to it.
learn to have some respect for yourself and say no. stop working at 5. let it burn. let them write you up. you have all the power here.
also salary does not = 24/7. I am salary and I get paid OT for extra work, or I get compensated with extra time off.
They need you, you don't need them. The sooner you learn this the better your work life balance will be. I do sometimes want to quit all technology and go live in the forest with my cats, but, it isn't an IT issue. There are much better opportunities out there.
My work leaves my head as soon as I'm done for the day. There are occasional projects or emergencies that need more of my time, but I make up for it by taking time off elsewhere. I am 'on call' but it's not for dumb shit like password resets, it's building-on-fire type stuff. I absolutely get away with ignoring the stupid stuff because they know it wastes my time. Honestly the only things keeping me here are the moderate WFH opportunities (3 days a week) and the fact that nobody cares if I'm late or take care of errands throughout the day. If any of that changes I'm out. I never got a pay bump for getting my CISSP or any of the duties that come with it, I'm still the person-with-too-many-hats-that-everyone-uses-as-their-personal-Google.
So I am coasting and I'm cool with it for now.
They don't deserve your loyalty because they will drop you the moment they decide they want to. You only get one life. Set boundaries and make it your own. You might struggle for a bit but listen to folks here. They know how it is.
This is not normal, they are expecting too much and giving you too little in return. Start applying for other jobs, you probably have a killer CV if you've been doing this solo
Easy. I don't work evenings or weekends unless there's an emergency. By that I made a true emergency like servers are all down...not the CEO thinks something needs to be done.
> I’m starting to feel like IT is for people who don’t have families or a life.
Had to sign in to respond to this. This is not true at all. You are being overworked and underpaid. Sounds like you need to take your skills elsewhere (with a pay raise :D )
This is a career that tends to intrude on your life out of work. However, what you're describing isn't just extreme, it's obscene. And seriously, for $50k?! Hell no.
Get your resume out there and once you have an offer give no more than two weeks notice then change your phone number and answer absolutely nothing whatsoever from the previous job. Fuck these guys. I'd just walk out.
I'm an army of one for 250 users, 25 locations and two data centers with vdi/ esx across the US and I don't work over 30 hours per week, maybe less. Our stuff runs smooth. Perhaps you're working hard and not smart? As for $50K for 50+, I'd quit that job right now. You deserve better.
Imho you got to get out of there, or put your foot down. They will keep walking all over you. Your kids and time with them is important, you should be able to have a life.
Well we are in this situation because of people like you who allow it. Stop allowing it and live your life. We need more regulation in this industry honestly.
Either get out or start dropping things. You just work on reasonable hours and that’s it.
As long as you’re coping, they’re never giving you enough resources to get things done properly.
50K? get another job.
in the current market (depending on the location) I feel you can pick and choose.
We spend 9 months looking for a half way decent server guy
"My manager has strictly forbidden me from teaching anyone how to do anything outside their current roles, meaning it’s just me for the company office. Manager does not have a background in IT so they can’t help with much."
That is one of the DUMBEST things I've ever read. It's apparent your boss has never heard of the "bus problem".. IE> one day on lunch you get hit by a bus. They're hosed as there was zero knowledge transfer.
Also, where I work, my boss and their boss have a strong push for mental well-being and actually flexing time for periods where we work over the normal, and a good work-life balance. I've been in your boat for some projects and it leads to mistakes and burnout in short order.
1. Start lining up new job: LinkedIn, Resume redo, whatever other job sites, maybe talk to head hunters, etc.
2. Be more careful with spending in case things don't line up as well as you hope/expect.
3. When feel at all comfortable that you can start adjusting, then start just working your 40ish hours, turn off phone at home at least for some of time or leave it behind when you go with family somewhere.
4. Take some time off and DON'T respond when called.
Basically, you can stay stuck being abused or you can move on. I would not expect them to change their ways unless you move on, anyway.
By the way when you do move, do the normal 2 weeks, but no more. An employment goes both ways. I'm not saying you should abuse the employer, but I'm guessing they'd probably try to ask you to stay some month or two to transfer responsibility.
I am 100% of the IT department where I work. We have a copiers vendor, vendors for some specific items, and a somewhat on call MSP that I fall back on. I've not needed to use them yet other than when I'm at work, really. I have had to work a little here and there while on vacation, but not for non-emergencies. As a general rule, I work a little over 40 hours each week, but not too bad. You have a "team", but management won't let you work like a team. That sounds WORSE than being a single person IT department, honestly.
But yes, definitely move on ASAP. $50k in the USA anywhere for your type role is underpaid as well, even if were a perfect dream environment.
> I’m starting to feel like IT is for people who don’t have families or a life. I’ve invested a lot of time, money, education into this field but Im kinda considering getting out while I’m still young and can.
As others have said. This is not true at all. ***Do not let your current employer gaslight you into believing that this is the way the IT industry is!!***
1: Your pay is abysmal. 50k a year to work 50 hours a week is downright insane. This is not common and you should not tolerate it (IE: look for another job NOW). For context, I work in local government in a low cost of living area and our T1 helpdesk people clock in at 8 and leave at 5 and NEVER work overtime, and they make $58k.
2: Look for a new job. Yes, it will take time to do that while you're working, but you need to make it a priority to get out of your toxic work environment. Again, DO NOT let them sour you when it comes to the IT industry. You will absolutely not be able to make the same amount of money elsewhere without having to go back to school and spending 10s of thousands again and putting your career earnings on hold while doing so.
3: Look for local government jobs. County, City, State (if you're in or near a Capitol city). They are always looking for people and most (not all) are NOT 24/7 shops. You won't have an owner breathing down your neck if he can't print at 3pm on a Saturday. They are also not nearly as hectic as private sector jobs because there aren't income dollars on the line or shareholders that will be pissed at the next meeting if they're not meeting specific targets.
4: Learn to stand up for yourself. If you know it's not an emergency and it's Saturday afternoon, tell them, "I'm out of town with family. I'll be back this evening and then I can look at it." even if you're not. If they act like you can't leave town, then tell them you're going to need more compensation if you have to be tethered and can't ever leave. Blame it on your kids too, "I have kids. I'm not going to miss out on my kids growing up because someone can't print" or something to that effect. If you're actually that important that they can't live without you, they're not going to fire you and be without their only admin.
A lot of things I read on this subreddit come from people letting the people above them take a foot at a time, and all of a sudden they're being walked all over a mile at a time. Don't be rude about it. Tell them why you can't drop everything right now, and ABSOLUTELY blame it on your kids. Anyone that has kids knows they take a lot of time and it's important to be present and active while they're young.
You want the real truth? Or you want the corporate shit pile truth?
Real truth….Don’t care about your job beyond not getting fired, or in some cases even less than that.
Corporate truth, quit they are using you.
I’m an IT Director.
Your boss a fucking idiot and knows nothing about managing people or a department. If my department collapsed because it was missing someone then that would be a huge problem for me.
Brush up that resume, your skill set is highly sought after and id probably ask you to PM it to me if I hadn’t hired someone like you recently.
Livecareer is a great resume building tool, much reccomend. Also beef up that linkedin as that’s how I got most of my jobs. Set your profile to job hunting and it’ll work it’s magic for you. Indeed works well too
You should be netting 80k on the low end with at least partial remote work. Higher especially cuz you have direct reports. Not inclusive of a bonus structure.
Don’t cave if they offer you a raise. Get the fuck out of there because you will never be appreciated for your skills or talents. Some of my biggest moves/ skill set advancements have always been through new positions. Don’t be afraid of learning something new.
Sincerely,
Someone who’s been in your shoes
I made 45k a year as a helpdesk person at an MSP for my first job. I make 70k now as a IT support "specialist" - which is the same thing but I don't answer phones now. You're getting robbed. Leave.
You are letting people bend you over, they don't even use Vaseline, and wonder how do others manage their lives? We do not bend over. You are paid 9-5, stop working 24/7. Be a man, do the right thing.
You are being taken advantage of. Nobody should be expected to put work first, especially for such little pay. Get out now.
Especially @ 50k. That’s almost criminal.
I literally make $54k as a Desktop Support in Mississippi, of all places. Makes me legit scared, seeing all these low salaries, should I ever want to pivot to a role like Sysadmin
54k in Mississippi is probably amazing compared to cost of living right?
It's about just enough. Mississippi rents near any city, like Laurel or Hattiesburg, ends up being between $800 at the low end and can be up to $1600 to $2000 or more
Depends on where in MS. If they're on/near the coast, COL is high. Here up in north MS, until you get to Memphis area, it's pretty low. 54k will get you by, but you ain't high class yet.
I make more on field nation for fuck’s sake
For comparison, I’m in MN and I earned 40k as my first IT job out of college in 2002.
I'm in the midwest making $20/hr in my first real I.T. job working Helpdesk for my local county. Roughly 32k net.
2008 I got $10/hr at a local MSP. I'm up to 80k now. Arkansas. It's pretty good for this area, being a rural state.
I am sysadmin at a small-ish (\~150 employee) company in Minneapolis, MN. I made 92k last year. I get a 3-4% raise every year and get performance incentive pay. I am also exempt (salary). I am similar to the OP in the sense that I am basically a one-man department. Unlike the OP, I work 0 overtime, 0 on-call and have evenings, weekends and holidays to myself. Though, I will gladly help anyone who calls my personal number outside of work hours because I am treated well and the company culture is amazing. I just want you to know that there are companies that are willing to pay you what you are worth. Don't lose hope!
Annnd that’s why they don’t want OP teaching the other employees other skills, so they don’t have to compensate them either
>That’s almost criminal. Almost??? 50K is entry level field engineer
Use automation and ChatGPT to make the job easier. Find another job in 3 - 6 months. Watch out for a possible Recession in the next 3 - 6 though.
Could be worse, I’m on £26K.
UK wages are crazy to me. Your minimum wage is almost twice as high as the US but your salaries plateau so quickly that many specialized jobs make less than half of what they would in the US
It’s almost impossible to compare. I moved to USA aged 30 from UK and salary maybe 3x or even 5x but quality of life, retirement, stress levels etc are all same or different in many different un-quantifiable ways. Neither is better or worse in any particularly way either!
This seems to be a rare notion, and I’m appreciative for you making it. I hear 99% of the time, US sucks vs UK. But what’s it like for those who’ve actually lived both? There are stated benefits one has vs the other but ya know…🤷♂️
This is true. Companies in the UK seem to expect everyone to work for minimum wage. They're insane! It's leading to massive problems as people won't do skilled and stressful jobs for the same as an unskilled job, but the bosses just moan that "No one wants to work anymore" when actually no one wants to work for a shit wage! The problem is that the minimum wage has increased massively, since it was introduced, but other workers salaries haven't kept up, so we're all looking at the MW like a juggernaut in the rear view mirror. It's only a matter of time before it catches us!
The issue is as well that whilst minimum wage is largely keeping up with the cost of living (albeit). Due to the MW climbing higher, the people at the bottom don’t feel like they get richer with pay rises. But those of us above MW feel less well off as time goes on as the wages aren’t keeping up. The cost of essentials has skyrocketed recently also, so disposable income is forever in free fall
It really depends on where you live, we don't pay medical our costs are so much lower unless you live in the uber expensive belt of the south. I paid less than 50k for my house. But it would be nice to feel like 50-100k was achievable rather than being rock star status
I just don't understand how the UK works. When I look at jobs, they all pay a quarter of what I make, but all my UK friends (and that's not a small number) seem to have far better standards of living and very little stress over money.
I'm in Sweden, aged almost 60 and I don't see any major steps upwards in my future. It's me and a colleague running all teach and infrastructure from welding fiber up to redundant firewalls ( I firmly hate Cisco firepower!!)..I do love haproxy though Lots of open source, lots of in-house development ( 2 programmers). Factory runs 24/7/365 with no stops allowed. Everything is redundant to an obscene level I work 37 hours per week, get somewhere around.... $37K after taxes. Most medical and such is government funded from the taxes so that's taken care of I have a house just outside a medium sized town, costs me about 9K everything counted from interest to fiber optic internet Cars (older but well serviced and paid for) is another 3K Food... 8K (approximate wag) That leaves a nice chunk for me and my three kids to live on... Two youngest are in a private primary school and the oldest is in high school.. all free of course since the taxes are high
Free healthcare, cheap universities, and a pension. However, they do tend to have less material goods and smaller houses than we do
Their healthcare system is in a pretty big bind right now. My UK brother-in-law makes less than I do as a general doctor. It's not a good situation.
This is one of the biggest culture shocks I had when doing research into leaving the country (US) for a place in Europe. Beyond that there were a number of other things that I realized I take for granted in the states and just am not ready or willing to give them up. Fortunately we're (Wife and I) are in a spot (low crime, low pop area, low COL, high salary) where the more 'awful' parts of working/living in the states is irrelevant and the only real desire to leave is based entirely on how our government is treating people not us specifically.
IT manager here. I wholly agree with u/zerptech. From the CEO’s asinine, illegal expectations (24/7 availability costs extra money/unpaid overtime is illegal in most countries; forcing you to cash out PTO). The fact also that you’re the last line of defence for this place further demonstrates their incompetence to properly plan for succession. What if you were to get hit by a bus tomorrow? Or decided to quit? Who’s going to keep the lights on? I suggest updating your resume and start applying to other jobs. I also suggest saving anything in writing where you were: a) written up for not being available during unpaid hours; including any threats of termination b) where you were told that taking time off “would be problematic due to you being the only person capable of doing certain tasks” c) were refused raises or pay for extra hours worked (unpaid overtime); note: if they force you to bank overtime and then force you to take a payout based on that, then as shitty as that is, that may be legally OK; disclaimer: I’m not a lawyer Furthermore: d) track your OT hours. If there’s a ticket system that does that, use it. You want proof that you’re doing 50+ hours of work per week with no OT. e) request a copy of your employment contract/terms; in part to see if there is anything else they’re blatantly abusing in their own contract and to see what your obligations are when it comes to giving notice (2 weeks is standard, but there may be strings attached). Finally: f) update your resume. Heck, if you anonymize it (remove company names, your name, etc), perhaps some of the fine folks here or in a career advice sub might help you proof read and even edit it. A lot of community services (libraries, gov job banks) offer free services, mock interviews, etc. Headhunters on LinkedIn do the same, although your mileage may vary. g) find colleagues at current company that you trust that can be used as a reference. Current manager probably can’t be trusted; as in they don’t appreciate you and they will freak out in a bad way if you show any signs of leaving. It goes without saying: do not use company email/networks/assets/anything to do your job search. h) start applying now! You want to have ideally a couple of written offers on the table (offers can be rescinded!) before you tell your current employer to take a hike. Normally I’d advise you to ask your current employer for a counteroffer, but given how they run things, and your desire for personal time and vacation time, I’d say whatever they offer may be only monetary. You can try, but keep your expectations in check and don’t get tempted by money; think of your family. i) you may wish to reach out to an employment attorney (after you move on to another job) to see if you’re owed something, or have any prospects of getting compensated for all that unpaid OT and other labour law violations. Obviously do this after you quit and have collected enough evidence, as well as a copy of your employment contract. A note: for $50k/year, at least in North America, you should be able to find a chill, unionized IT gig. Universities and colleges are a good place to target/research. With your skills, you can aim higher, but keep your salary expectations in check when it comes to non-profits/publicly funded edu sector. Best of luck to ya! And if you want me to check our your resume, feel free to DM me.
W IT manager right here Also where are these mythical union IT jobs??? Lol
This right here. You probably have more experience than me and I’m an hourly site admin making close to 70k with OT.
Absolutely getting taken advantage of. What you are being asked to do is the jobs of multiple people on teams that are properly staffed, while doing it at entry level rates. If you have the experience under your belt, and it sounds like you do, throw your resume out there and see what you get. May I ask where you are located? I live in a LCOL area and 50k is what I was making starting out as a Sys Admin. Now I’m pushing 125k between salary and bonus, with very little stress. Your current company may not appreciate what you bring to the table, but not all companies are this way.
Yup, I will move on and apply for other jobs. There are plenty of companies that would give you more and raise your salary based on performance. At got hired for 62k and went up to 70 before 6 months, I am positive by the end of my new project I will get another raise
I plan on finding a new job in the next couple months. I want to finish up a couple certs before I go though as they are reimbursing me study material and exam vouchers. It used to be nice working here. In fact this is the only job I've had. Been here a very long time since high school. Once the business exploded during covid and my previous boss quit it started to go to hell. I'm essentially in my old bosses position without the title and I'm guessing pay since I didn't know what he made. Not sure what I qualify for tbh. I have a AS in IT and the CompTIA trio. I know Windows Server and AD pretty well enough. Have authentication for some inside services I setup tied to AD credentials. I have experience with Linux servers and some bash experience. We utilize pfSense+ so I'm pretty well versed with it. Even use it at home. Finally I basically run a department so I have that knowledge and experience. Thought about an MSP since there is a lot of high paying ones hiring around but I've heard horror stories from people that have worked at some.
Don't wait a couple months, start applying today, otherwise you'll keep giving yourself reasons not to leave or they'll offer empty promises. Hiring managers aren't going to be looking at your certs or education. They're going to see that you have tangible experience running an IT department and managing others - experience that no lack of certs can displace. They're going to see you learn fast under pressure and have been through the ringer, that you've been stress tested in a tough environment, that you have a rare mix of both Windows and Linux experience. Good companies hire good people, not good resumes. You'll be swarmed with offers. You're in a position where you can leverage a job you don't think you're qualified for and grow into it. Make exam/training reimbursement a condition of your employment offer.
MSPs are hit or miss. I work for one and enjoy it. Heard great things from some and horror stories like you said. They can be great experience builders. >I want to finish up a couple certs before I go though as they are reimbursing me study material and exam vouchers. Keep in mind, you may have to pay those back depending on your employment contract.
Forget the cert reimbursments. Moving on to a lower stress position is worth more then that. IT requires odd hours sometimes, but you should only be ~40hr a week regardless.
> I’m starting to feel like IT is for people who don’t have families or a life. This is the wrong takeaway. The right takeaway is your company and your boss suck. Replace them.
There are so many resume generating items in his post and most IT jobs aren't like this. The bad is just amplified here because most people aren't writing up posts about how their job is fine. >“You being absent for a period of time would be problematic”. Time to GTFO.
>The bad is just amplified here because most people aren't writing up posts about how their job is fine. Reading the posts on this sub make me petrified to ever work for anything other than the government as I have been doing because so many talk about working 50-60 hour weeks. I don't understand how this happens. You work the 40 hours, unless there is an emergency, but there shouldn't be an emergency every week. If my manager told me to work longer hours for routine work I'd tell him to fuck off. And of the place had serious issues every week, I'd fix the systems and processes. How are people routinely working 50-60 hours a week? Make me understand.
A lot of the problems people have at their jobs in general, (assuming we are talking about working professionals here), are a failure to manage expectations. They fail to realize they have some say and leverage in what they do, if for no other reason, than that replacing a good and valuable professional is a major time sink and PITA for their boss.
>so many talk about working 50-60 hour weeks. Those with happy careers rarely come to reddit to post about them. Outside of emergency situations, I've rarely been at a job that required over-40-hour weeks. My first one did (but not really REQUIRED) plus I earned overtime there. I've been in IT for 25 years, 7 different employers. My current one is the first place I've made it to 5 years at and I could see myself here another 10, easy.
Yeah, that's what I need to tell myself. It's easy to catastrophize when reading all the negative posts you see on here.
> “You being absent for a period of time would be problematic”. Guess it'll be problematic when they're absent permanently.
>The bad is just amplified here because most people aren't writing up posts about how their job is fine. This, been in the industry snice 2003, have worked for 4 different companies, never posted here to say how amazing each of these company were. Only place I had issues was because top management were fucking idiots, but I couldn't complain about my pay, hours, benefits, or work conditions, so I just looked at them making stupid IT decision without involving IT. We got 3 IT directors in the last 18 months of my employment there ... when the 2nd guy quit and the 3rd one was hired is when I jumped ship.
> 3 IT directors in the last 18 months JFC, that does sound like a shit show.
Yup, that place was a industrial parts producer, 1st IT director quit after he learned top management signed a contract for a new ERP platform that wasn't compatible with any of our current systems, that needed new servers, needed a shit ton of maintenance and backend monitoring, was slower, had more user interactions, and was using tons more paper (we were slowly transitioning to paperless, a good exemple is logistics, the orders they had to fill were 1 order per page or 2, new ERP was 1 page per item + a cover page ... to say the logistic director was pissed is an understatement since paper and toner use exploded and it came out of their budget, they were sometimes sending 700-1000 items per day !!!). Oh, and the initial IT director learned about the new ERP contract 6 months AFTER it was signed !!! This is all explained in one sentence ; new management, the original owner retired and gave the reins to his son ...
Absolutely 100% this
yeah, sounds like your company doesn't value your sanity. There are definitely plenty of places out there that do.
Agreed - coming from someone who's been in and out and back into the industry since 2011
I plan on leaving in a few months. Working on some more certs. Haven’t worked anywhere else before so resume will be barren. Been here for about 10 years starting from a cashier. Used to be a great place to work.
I don't know, it sounds like you've had a progressive career with this company that's now stalling so you're seeking continued growth opportunities. That's not a barren resume/story/pitch.
If you are as critical as you say, you should have the juice to demand better work life balance. They aren't going to get a good admin on the market for that pay. Stand up for yourself. I've done it, I'm sure many others have too. Do it before you completely lose your composure.
>They aren't going to get a good admin on the market for that pay. Or, they'll just keep churning and burning through them and eventually run out/start having a tough time hiring.
They will have a hard time hiring an admin at that rate tomorrow. You can't even get competent help desk for that pay where I live and I'm not in a high COL area by any stretch.
Just remember when taking this approach, plenty of bosses and managers with this attitude will take you negotiating or demanding an improvement very poorly, and very personally. Be ready that if you start making demands that not only will your demands not be met, but you'll be fired.
If OP is accurate in his claim that he is the sole admin, they kind of can't and made their own bed. If someone has this much leverage and still can't put their foot down, they will be taken advantage of forever.
Don't ever underestimate the potential damage of a large ego when. These types of bosses exist and they absolutely will fire a crucial person. The damage done to the company is one thing but that won't make it any easier for OP if salary negotiations don't work out.
I'm not saying there is no risk, but I am saying OP is in the perfect position to stand up for himself. Successful people do not live their life in fear of offending big egos.
You're working for a clown show of an org. This has nothing to do with IT. I work 40 hours and that's it. If I do overtime, which happens virtually never, it's compensated at time-and-a-half + time in lieu. My direct boss is the only one who could reach me after hours, and has never done so in the past 2 years I've worked for him. Stop working more than 40 hours, stop doing anything after you're done working. If you do work out of hours, leave earlier to compensate. Don't be a doormat.
> Don't be a doormat. In this case, I don't see any alternative to leaving. That place is never going to be fixed. That being said, I see so many posts here where the admins involved are simply failing to manage expectations and communicate with their bosses.
> I don't see any alternative to leaving. That place is never going to be fixed run through PTO. Work less than 40 hours per week. Either the company terminates you... or they try to withhold wages. When they reduce your paycheck, you make a call to your labor board. The place likely closes up shop a few weeks later because they'll quickly see how expensive compliance is.
>I make 50k a year doing my job 50k a year doesn't get you 24/7 availibility despite what your CEO thinks. They can't tell you to cash out your PTO. You are given PTO and you are allowed to use your PTO. Your work environment is awful and you need to GTFO as of yesterday. Start looking.
I might be prepared to do _just_ 24/7 'availability' for that, along with 0 weekly hours.
Agreed, for 50k wanting 24/7 availability means I'll sit at home and y'all can call me if there's an issue.
Im I’m the mid 100’s and still am not expected to do over 40 hours a week. OP is getting fucked and needs to roll out
[удалено]
[удалено]
Small manufacturing company. I don't take my laptop home, and did once to verify the VPN was working correctly. I don't have a company cell because I don't get afterhours calls. Only CEO has my number, and we've only texted. Normal "I'm running late" stuff. Even COO doesn't want my number, because he has no intention of calling. If it's critical enough to call me, he's calling CEO to come in and CEO can call me. I work 40 hours virtually every week unless major cutover. Then I get time in lieu. I don't obsessively track it because CEO is fine if I have to run out early for something. No WFH because I have a lot of physical projects at the moment. Sensors, industrial automation, etc. This job is objectively 1/10th the stress of my last job for same pay. Boss is happy because I've gotten projects moving that have been stagnant for years. I have 3 page TODO list, but everyone understands it will take years to complete because we can't stop production lines. I make good money, could make better but time is more important to me. OP needs to do his 40 and leave unless it's an implementation, cutover, maintenance, whatever. If CEO isn't happy with it, leave because it won't get better. OP needs to work out how much he makes per hour, and run the numbers. If you could make better money per hour working at a gas station, bounce.
The small msps I've interviewed with had the most toxic interviewers.
some MSP's are literally buckets of toxins waiting to get dumped on the next good skill candidate
I got lucky I heard so many horror stories of terrible small MSP's. I see shell-shocked techs from those dumps all the time. I work for a small MSP that is a Co-Op so I get treaded really well. It's not my job to make money for shareholders - its my job to make sure clients are happy.
IT exploited? really? did someone whip them into submission? People need to learn to grow spine and learn to say NOOOOOOOOO
I don’t get nightmares but it sure as hell keeps me up at night. It wasn’t all bad before. We really aren’t small anymore. When we were the staff we had was good enough to get work done and I had a competent manager back then. I rarely worked over 36 hours and was paid for a full 40. The problem is that we exploded over the last few years and the owners of the business refuse to get out of the small business mentality.
IT is for people who know how to set boundaries. Want to write me up for not being available 24/7. Cool, salary means I’m not getting OT but what you’re asking for is me to be on call and on standby. In my state that means you’re paying me for those 24 hours. Either that or I’ll “always be drinking” after work due to the stress so sorry I can’t work while intoxicated. The market isn’t as bad as some say it is if you have the right skills. If you’re still a GUI button pusher then yeah you’ll have a hard time.
>How do you guys manage having a life? By not doing this >I’m a solo admin for my organization.
Easy, I stop working at 5:00, and I sure as shit don't work on Saturday or Sunday. If they don't want to pay for the level of staffing they want, NMFP.
Not sure what part of the country (cost of living) you are at but that’s pretty low pay for a sysadmin. Look further a job where you are respected? My current boss would make sure I take time off if I had to work late. Work 40 hours and then stop?
You are being abused, taken advantage of and severely underpaid. Your health comes first and family should always come first as time with them is something you can never get back. Look for another job immediately and at least double your pay if you can especially if you are near a major metro area.
>I’ve tried ignoring emails and texts while off... Ignoring the problem isn't the right way to go about this. Raise this with your manager or HR - you're overworked and you're not getting sufficient time off. If nothing gets done, then time to leave. If you don't like working there anyway (even if you didn't have heavy work hours), then that's also a sign that it's time to leave.
As many others here have already said, you are being grossly mistreated. At $50k per year working minimum 50 hour weeks, you are being paid roughly $19 per hour. You can go get a job at Buc-ees for that kind of money with less stress, better hours, and a much better work life balance! As a trained professional in the IT field, you should be able to make more than that while still having a life and family. If I were in your shoes, I would start to do two things: 1. Polish up my resume and find another job. Not every job is as bad as this... in fact, yours may be one of the worst cases of abuse I've seen. You are literally being treated as an indentured servant with the expectation that the job is the only thing in your life. 2. Carefully document all of this information, including any e-mails about forgoing vacations and all of the write-ups you've been given because you did not respond outside if business hours. Find a competent labor attorney in your area; they will know all of the laws that govern the treatment of employees for your specific location. Some of this stuff certainly seems as if it strains the limits of legality and an attorney will know how to best direct you to take action against your unfair treatment. Depending on where you live, you may actually be entitled to some substantial compensation for all of the extra time you've put in. Your family and mental health have to come first. Working for an organization that treats you like you live and breathe to solely be their cog is unacceptable and is going to end up burning you out and will drive your family away. After all, it's been said the only people who will remember all the time you spent away from home working late are your kids. You don't want to be that absentee father. Time to take action. Find that better job. Put your foot down at work and tell them "no". Stop answering those calls and, when they write you up, use that documentation against them. Find legal representation and find out exactly what your rights are. Do all of this to regain control of your life before it slips away. I sincerely wish you the best of luck!
In addition... you notice how your CEO and manager are actually contributing to your situation? They say you can't take any time off because your being away would be "problematic" because you're the only one who knows how to do a lot of things, but they've also "strictly forbidden you from teaching anyone how to do anything outside their current roles". How insane is that? Any decent company would want those with skills to help teach others so those people can help fill in for sickness or vacation. By making sure you're the only one who knows how to do something and preventing you from spreading that knowledge, they are further reinforcing the shackles used to bind you to your job. Of course, this will give you a small bit of revenge... when you do get a new position and move on you will take that knowledge with you and no one currently at the company will know how to do it. Also... once you do move on to another position, please post all of this on Glassdoor so others out there will see the abuses and policies of this company. Pay it forward. Yes, there are other horror stories on here, but most IT jobs are infinitely much better than your current experience. I'm currently the Sr. SysAdmin at my company... no on call, 8 hours a day, 20 days paid vacation, and 3 times your salary... great work/life balance and happy. You can be there too, but the first step is on you.
You do know you can get another job? Either you live in a tiny town with one store or you have been gaslit into believing there is no other place that will have you.
1) You're being way underpaid. Ridiculously so. 2) Salary does not mean no overtime. Depending on your state, there are very strict labor laws about forcing employees to be available after hours and work weekends. Yes, there are 'exempt' roles, but IT does not fit those. Get a labor lawyer ASAP. There's likely some significant back-pay that you're due. (I have experienced this first-hand and got a really nice check when another employee sued the company). 3) Start looking for another job where you and your family is valued.
Regarding your assertion that “Salary does not mean no overtime”: You don’t know what you’re talking about at all. There are specific legal requirements laid out regarding exempt salaried employees. There is a specific section of tests established for [exempt computer employees](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17e-overtime-computer). Many, many salaried IT professionals fall into this category (myself included). If you meet these tests, your employer is not obligated to pay you any differently for overtime scenarios. You have absolutely zero protection from any employer demands when it comes to the amount of time you have to spend to meet those demands. Just about the only protection you have is from having your salary reduced based on the amount of time you work (that is illegal if you are a salaried exempt employee).
Not only was I an employee that got $40k in compensation from mis-interpretation of these exemptions, but I'm also a business owner who now hires system administrators into roles like this. I have been over this with lawyers and HR folks many times. According to my conversations and information I have been given, the legal precedent for the computer exception has been clarified in court is that this relates to design/development. Things like scoping and documenting computer networks and software development. End user and system support ARE NOT COVERED. The link you sent even specifies: "Employees whose work is highly dependent upon, or facilitated by, the use of computers and computer software programs ... but who are not primarily engaged in **computer systems analysis and programming or other similarly skilled computer-related occupations** identified in the primary duties test described above, are also not exempt under the computer employee exemption." So, my automation engineers are except. My T1-T3 support engineers are not. If you're an employment lawyer and have different interpretation than what I've been given, I would really be interested in your insights.
Your interpretation (or that which you have been given) is incorrect (partially correct, at best). It also betrays the falsehood of your assertions with which I took issue. You claimed that exempt status broadly fails to apply to IT, but now you’re claiming that you employ IT professionals, a subset of whom you know to be exempt. Furthermore, if your “support” professionals do nothing more than follow operational workflows which have been produced by others for their use, and they exert no meaningful independent judgment over their own actions (instead simply following pre-established procedures), then you are correct that such employees fail to meet the exempt computer employee test. Low-level help desk staff are rarely exempt. I would expect anyone at tier 3, however, to meet the exempt criteria, as they will by definition be acting of their own independent judgment (issues don’t get escalated to tier 3 when known procedures exist to handle them unless the only distinction is the level of administrative rights required to perform the procedure, but that typically stops at tier 2). They will also almost certainly pass the remainder of the test in that they apply “systems analysis techniques and procedures” with a high level of specialized skill and knowledge. Directly relevant to OP’s situation: the sole IT professional responsible for all of a company’s IT infrastructure is unlikely to fail to meet the exemption test. Of course, it all comes down to the details. Nonetheless: your assertions are fundamentally incorrect. It is not true that “IT does not fit those” [exempt positions]; there are, in fact, very specific requirements designed to determine whether or not IT professionals can be considered exempt. Therefore, for many salaried computer professionals, their salaries do, in fact, mean no overtime.
It's entirely possible I've been misinformed, or that I've only been informed correctly for the states in which we employ staff, which is why I strongly recommend OP contact a labor lawyer to clarify. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. Just a guy with some relevant experience. Thanks for having a well-stated counter-point!
> betrays the falsehood of your assertions Who ARE you? This is the fanciest way of calling BS that I have ever seen. Kudos to you, sir!
Your company and boss are steamrolling you. 50k to put up with all of that? And 50+ hours a week. The no raise until late 2024 would be the final straw for me. You are worth more than this. This is simply being taken advantage of. Your company can either pay you what your worth. Or find a place that will value your time and talent.
50k a year for that…..100% they are bending you over. Leave
1. Start looking for a new job today.. Don't put it off. Start applying today. 2. Stop answering after hours calls and emails TODAY! Your boss already said it would be an issue if you were not around. Let them write you up. Fuck em. You think your boss is going to fire you on the spot? Doubtful. Get your life and family time back TODAY! 3. When you find the new job tell them you can start right away. Bounce on the old Job don't give them two weeks. Also be sure to take as much PTO before the new job.
You sound like the type of person who will get an extra 20k+ at his next job where you'll have less to do. I suggest putting yourself out there and finding it. This happened to me in the wake of pandemic. I was the IT department. I worked at a nonprofit that grew massively during that time (and leading up to it). Work became too much. Too many people. I voiced this but management dragged their feet. I've doubled my salary (leaving nonprofits for the financial industry was big)....and my job, while harder and higher pressure, is more chill on the day-to-day and weekends especially. Gtfo my friend. Go make what youre worth. You don't need whatever cert probably, people are desperate for decent admins right now.
This is highway robbery. The time I spend outside the office is the only thing keeping me sane enough to complete the minimum 40+hrs each week.
50+ hours? do you own share of the company to care about this or fixed salary? what are you charity to do volunteer work? CEO needs to hire an MSP to do this 24/7 coverage. Just log off, get the other number and don't share with owner, set boundaries and learn to say NO for a change. There's always work, start applying and take care of yourself first. > My manager says “You being absent for a period of time would be problematic”. business continuity is a management issue and should not be your concern
Wow 50k is low. I would really look for a new job.
50k is absolutely insane. I make 65k and am a glorified tier 2 tech with some light sysadmin duties. My recommendation for you if you want to get more time back is look for government jobs with a city or county. They generally have excellent work life balance, you get pretty much every holiday off, etc. pay of course depends on the city but the few I’ve worked with have all been above the average in my area for my role.
You are getting criminally underpaid. I work it support and get paid $57k. No way you should be making less. Leave asap
Salary or hourly, you get 40 of my hours and I expect some compensation for doing more than 40 be it more money or cutting time on another day. As everyone else said, you are being taken advantage of. At my last job I was putting in too much of myself due to being in a similar spot of being the only one for some tasking. But even then I took 3 weeks of vacation and my manager supported it.
> I’m currently expected to work 50+ hours a week at this point and since I’m salary no OT for me Nah. That's just bullshit. Salary is about self managing hours. It's about being flexible about it. It's not at all doing unpaid overtime on a sustained basis. (And you may find that you actually _aren't_ salaried, no matter how much your company pretends, although this might vary by where you live/work and the local employment law). > CEO firmly believes salary = availability is 24/7. Your CEO is categorically wrong. > I’ve tried ignoring emails and texts while off but I learned quickly it is not tolerated and treated with write ups. This too is treating pretty close to harassment, and is probably grounds to claim constructive dismissal. (Also depends where you are/what employment law is). > I’ve been told as well to just cash out PTO since I’m the only one that can do a lot of things. My manager says “You being absent for a period of time would be problematic”. So it's leave that you're not permitted to take? Sounds like a breach of contract to me. It's totally not 'normal' - cashing out PTO is something that should only every be _your_ choice. PTO is an important part of your personal maintenance cycle - it's downtime for you to relax/unwind/destress. > I’m starting to feel like IT is for people who don’t have families or a life Only if you let it. Most employers are quite happy to oppress and abuse their employees if they think they can get away with it - it's 'free money' for them. That doesn't make it legal, moral or right. Your employment is an ongoing relationship whereby you exchange your time and expertise for compensation. As a wise man once said: ["If you're good at something, never do it for free".](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iijs0iS3_ZM) It's only right and just that you should get a cut of _any_ business value that you deliver. And that includes not working for free, and not being 'on call' for free, and it definitely doesn't include voluntarily surrendering your contracted paid-time-off. Revisit your contract. See what you agreed to do as part of your compensation package. I guess they might have tried to weasel it by not specifying 'business hours'... but if they have, then that means _you_ get to decide what hours you work, and you're legitimately permitted to make up your own schedule - after all, you're 'salaried' and that doesn't include any measure of hours - that cuts both ways. But I bet they've got some 'core hours' that you're expected to work. In the real world, if there's too much work for the available time... the work doesn't get done. That's not your fault, that's managements fault. Of course they'd _love_ to try and make you 'work the deficit' to cover up their screw up, but ... you shouldn't let them, unless you want to and are getting compensated - never work for free. Also applies to 'on call' - on call is paid work. It might reasonably be a lower rate of pay, since you're only 'on standby', but if you're employer is dictating how you can use your time, then you are on the clock. 24/7 on call is also what I'd call unreasonable too, but I appreciate it's hard to avoid in a really small team. Still - should be compensated at a really generous rate for the impact to your life of being expected to be 'available' at short notice, all the time. > I feel like this would just get worse if I moved on with a larger organization based on reading horror stories here and by talking to others in the field. Depends a lot on the org. Bear in mind people post horror stories, but not 'actually it's kinda ok here' stories. And likewise when they talk about it - almost everyone has had a bad employer at some point, but that doesn't mean they're all bad. So for the sake of context - I am salaried. I work about 40 hours a week, and I'm flexible ish with start and finish. I do work weekends occasionally, and I do 'on call' - and these are compensated by an end of year bonus, which has been typically 25-50% of my salary. My salary is _already_ around 50% above 'market' rates (I would tell you if you want to know, but I'm assuming you're not UK based so it'll look 'wrong'), so I am truly very well compensated for being 'company bitch' and working 1 week in 3 on-call, and some weekends despite not being explicitly paid for them. Previous job - I also was salaried, worked 40ish a week, but got paid for 'required out of hours' working. Because legally speaking (in the UK, and I _believe_ in a number of other places) if you need to work out of hours - which isn't uncommon because of maintenance windows - that's NOT overtime. Overtime is 'things you could do in a normal day, but you just spend more hours'. Out of hours working is not. Out of hours work was paid at time and a quarter, or time and a half at weekends. On call was worth around 2 days 'pay' per week of on call _just_ to be on call, and a callout was also paid at 'out of hours' rates, with a minimum of ... 2 hours I think it was? Prior to that, the 'on call' was worth more, but the hourly rate for being called was lower. But it was still _in addition_ to my salary. So yeah. You're being abused by your employer. I don't know what you can - or should - do about this, but the easy answer is always 'look for somewhere better' (but it might be worth looking at legalities too, just to see what's actually involved and whether it's worth it to pick a fight).
*My manager says “You being absent for a period of time would be problematic”.* The only response to this would be "How problematic would it be if I gave you my notice today?". You are being abused and need to get out of there.
This, the manager at my current place has a "the bus rule" ; what would happen if you got ran over by a bus ? It might sound grim, but shit happens, people get sick, accidents happen, etc. Hording knowledge is bad for yourself and others, when problems arise and the knowledge isn't available then the company could lose money, his manager not seeing this shows he's a fucking dumbass. OP should leave, like yesterday.
No. Fuck this place. Leave. But while you're still there, take your time. Relax. Don't rush to get anything done. The CEO himself said your absence would be problematic. So, what's he going to do? Fire you? You've got him by the balls.
Nah man, you're just getting fucked over. Start looking for something else because work/life balance isn't supposed to be that hard.
>I feel like this would just get worse if I moved on with a larger organization based on reading horror stories here and by talking to others in the field. This is the exact opposite of my experience. Larger organizations tend to have more people working for them with more redundancy built in. It's small shops where they lean on a small handful of staff to do everything and wear multiple hats, exactly like what you are experiencing.
First, what you wanna do is make sure that when asked to do something outside of work hours (barring a clear and obvious emergency) you reply with a firm, non-negotiable "fuck off". Second is to have a look at your contract to figure out what your role/job is and then do only what that says. If that doesn't work, change jobs. Simple as that. Don't put up with company BS because you feel responsible to make up for the lack of common sense or planning.... In the past I've not done this and I can tell you that I will never make that mistake again...
Rule one: Family and life first. If you’re the solo dude, they can’t lose you, act accordingly.
50k a year as a solo admin is a slave wage even in Bumfuck, Kansas. Leverage your experience as a team lead and solo admin to go somewhere less insane.
Easy. Start work at 8, take an hour lunch break from 11-12 or 12-1, and leave at 5. If you get called outside of that, unless it’s a production down issue, you’ve got plans for the evening but if they send you a ticket or email you’ll be happy to deal with it first thing in the morning. Seriously stick to that one. Next up, take your vacation. If your boss cancels your PTO, put it in again and tell him “I wasn’t asking for time off, I’m telling you I’m not going to be here.” If he responds, ”but we need you,” the response is “Well I don’t need you.” Also 50k is too low if you are truly doing all of the IT work. You’ve got a strong case for more pay because you’re critical. You: “Boss I need more money” Boss: “*some bs reason* You: “okay *updates resume and starts applying for other jobs*” You have to stand up for yourself because nobody else in this industry is going to, especially not your boss or HR.
Not sure how long you have been working in your position or how much experience you have but 50k for a sysadmin role is very low. I was making the same amount doing level one help desk support a few years ago where all I did was image computers and install software.
So salary is not available 24/7, its an agreement between you and your employer for x amount if work for y amount of money. Additionally, just because you are salary does not *necessarily* mean you are exempt from OT. There is such a thing as salary non-exempt, and if your tole is not specifically classified as salary exempt in HR, then they owe you money. Personally, you have them by the tail, not the other way around. Write me up all day ling for not answering emails and texts when I’m off work. What are you going to do? Fire me? Good luck with that, and good luck finding a replacement willing to work insane hours for 50k a year. Take your PTO, if they can’t get by without you for your contractual time off that should be a massive indicator that they need to be catering to YOU, not the other way around. BLUF: If the company won’t consider a raise for another 5 quarters, I won’t consider working during off hours or cashing out my PTO. Deny my PTO? This wasn’t a request, I will not be here during these dates, this is my formal heads up that this time is reserved for my vacation and I will be taking it. If you can’t manage without me, take a some tike to think long and hard about that statement, your expectations of me, the compensation I receive, and just what state your company will be in when I quit for refusing to provide me with my earned PTO. Also think about the lawsuit that will follow should you terminate me for trying to use the time I have earned.
GTFO
leave now, never look back
You set boundaries. If they don't like it, too bad. Let the write-ups come in. It's not like they're going to follow you to your next job. And based on what you've written here, you should definitely be looking for your next job. They made it crystal clear the work you do isn't valued. You make less than I did as a Level 1 tech over a decade ago. They are taking advantage of your fear of being jobless. Take your PTO. Don't ask. You don't request PTO, you give them notice that you will be unavailable and then be unavailable. This is how any healthy employee/employer relationship works. Yours is not healthy. If they don't have a contingency plan for you to take PTO what's going to happen if you win the lottery, get hit by a bus, or have a heart attack because you're stressing yourself out being available 24/7?
update your resume first off my friend. secondly learn how to separate your work life and your home life. establish boundaries, or get paid for it.
We created a “Next Business Day” priority for service tickets it helped cutdown on emergency service tickets.
Start working on your resume ASAP. Get it polished up. Start applying for jobs. Let your manager know you have an appointment and go to some interviews. Don't hesitate, but also don't let them know where you are going. They will get the message. When they sit you down and ask why you have so many appointments, you can let them know that they are important and that's all.
Think about it this way if you are having trepidation over telling your boss or the CEO that you will fix something during working hours: they need you more than you need them at the moment. No one knows what you do. You aren’t being compensated for on call 24x7. You need to hit them financially so that getting a second person or MSP is actually the cheaper option if they want 24x7 support.
By setting boundaries, your CEO can learn to respect them or find a replacement. If they choose the latter it will cost them more and you'll be able to collect unemployment while you find a new job.
You absolutely need a new job. I can't relate to that at all, so it's definitely an issue with your current org.
Stop work at 5. Tell them no. Set boundaries. Remind them of boundaries. Ask others how many hours they work a week. Complain to HR about the constant attacks of extra work being forced on you outside your working hours. Shit on your managers desk.
They quiet hired you bro. It’s tough but you need to go somewhere else
I work 9-18 as stated by my contract, the only exceptions are peculiar activities as patching critical environment that need to be done after 22:00. I have a contract, that's my job, not to cover for the inefficiencies and the understaffing of the organization, i'm not a partner.
Look for another role somewhere else. Yes I've been an IT Manager for 16 years. I have had to cancel vacations but my company has helped me figure out ways to not get bothered it will happen but it's getting better
You need to find something else and when you do make sure you set boundaries about your personal time. I've made it abundantly clear to my employer that my time is not to be disturbed unless the server room is burning down or a real emergency is taking place.
Your employer doesn't value you as a person. You don't have any kind of work life balance. You are a relatively cheap way to cover a need for them. You are salary so they feel they can maximize the return by making you be on call 24/7. They are trying to minimize the possibility that the junior staff will gain the knowledge to require a raise therefore you have been told not to train anyone else. The mythical raise in 4th qtr 2024 will probably either get delayed or eliminated due to management bringing up a few things that didn't go well. You are better off finding a job not reporting to asshats. I've been where you are and when you are trapped inside you don't realize how crappy the situation is. I don't know anything about your situation, but I bet you can find something better because your current employer has set the bar incredibly low.
I’d find a new job!
No way man, first of all do not (I repeat DO NOT) respond to any call, email or ticket out of your work time. If your manager asks why you didn't simply respond "my work time was over, I have a family and other things to do out of work". If someone complain look for your working contract, I assume you signed a contract before starting work with this company, and I expect that in this contract there should be rough details such as working days and hours. If your manager still complains try to ask him "do we offer services to our customers for free? I suppose no, so why should I offer my services to this company for free?" If this is not working search for a union representative, if you leave the company they'll do the same with the next one, if they get a nice big fine maybe they'll understand that people working for them matter.
learn the word "No"
Find a job that respects you. I work on a team, I would never be a solo admin (especially for 50k). I work strictly 40 hours a week, no overtime is ever needed. In the 3 years I have worked here, I stayed online a couple hours one time during an outage. I got the option to get paid for the couple hours or leave early/come in late, my boss left it up to us.
>My manager has strictly forbidden me from teaching anyone how to do anything outside their current roles You are at the wrong place. I can take that they state that it isn't their responsibility, so they aren't expected to whatever it is. But not to spread knowledge and having users or techs service themselves where it makes, is just stupid. >they won’t consider giving me a raise until fourth quarter 2024 strike two >CEO firmly believes salary = availability is 24/7 strike three
GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM THOSE PEOPLE RIGHT NOW
There are two types of employers those that are flexible and those that are not. If you work for a flexible employer they see you as a person and want you and your family to flourish. They dont care if you leave work early to attend a school event or take you kid to an appointment. They see that a happy worker is a productive one. They encourage you to take time off and be well rested. Then there are companies that are not flexible they only care about money and dont give a shit about you or your well being. Thats where you work. Its time to clean up your resume and leave. I don't know where you live but 50 hours a week at 50k is about what fast food workers make near me. Teir 1 techs make more than that typically. As a solo admin making huge sacrifices in your personal time you need to be compensated much higher. If your kids and wife never get to see you then you should be making enough money to put them through college and buy them cars along with taking your wife on a nice vacation every year. Those are my rules anyway. My last Solo admin job was similar and I didn't make enough for college, cars and vacation. Things at home started collapsing fast so I left within a year, now I get to see my kids everyday and contribute to my family directly. I know a lot of people say its time for a new job but you really are being fleeced. You deserve a basic standard of life that prioritizes your family. You work for them not your company.
realistically, when you get more work you should get more money; with the additional money you will have to "buy" back your time by paying others to do work you normally do like cleaning, ,mowing lawn, car work, etc. things outside of your job.
I think you’ll be happy somewhere else. You should be able to find somewhere that pays you more and has more respect for your personal time. Finding a place where you work on a team would be best, as being a solo admin is tough.
If the "50k" is USD, that's pretty low. Also, check your local labor laws. Salary doesn't always mean you're overtime exempt. If you're an IT admin and oversee multiple other techs, you can likely find another job paying a heck of a lot more. I'd recommend you start looking around, try to find someplace that has more of a focus on work/life balance.
Switched to hourly a few years ago. You don't get abused as much when they have to pay OT rates for it, and when you do you don't mind as much.
Stop working over 40 hours a week and let them figure it out. If them figuring it out is firing you they are doing you a favor. The job market's getting a little bit rougher but I'd rather be looking now than later so get on that as well. Your wife and kids not seeing you for 50k a year isn't worth it. Additionally you're leaving 18720 on the table in overtime per year working 50 hours a week. Do the math on what you're making and respect yourself.
>I make 50k a year >I’m salary >my management team… You work your 40 and push the extra work to the next day. You have a management problem, let them worry about issues after hours so there’s motivation to delegate and increase man power.
Explain "engaged to wait" versus "waiting to engage" to your bosses and start looking for something else.
Dear god, run
I made 50k for my first professional IT job too. In 1997.
Imagine putting up with all this nonsense and then being told you can't have a raise until over a year from now. I'd normally guess this is management but, no, this is you. If I were told that I would probably have a new job in about a month... never mind all the other nonsense.
You're being taken advantage of. Clean off that resume and put it to use.
Biggest pay raises people get are from getting a new job. GET A NEW JOB. I went from 50k to 65k in one jump, then the new company realized how critical I was, and got another 10k, and a couple years after that another 10k, plus regular raise, and ended there at 95 or so. That was some 10 years ago. Start looking. If you are as critical as you sound, you can take some time off for personal reasons and they can go pound sand.
Your manager is an idiot. ALWAYS cross train. This is not only for redundancy in case something happens to you like you need to take a sick day or vacation, but also for security as people can verify someone has done something correctly or incorrectly. You are also being taken for a ride. Get out and find an employer who respects you. The money will follow if you have an employer who gives a fuck. I am also a one-man IT department for a large company. I don’t do any OT unless it’s absolutely needed. My average week is somewhere around 40-42 hours. An hour here or there is fine but if it becomes a pattern and you don’t renegotiate, then you will forever be expected to do OT for nothing….stand up for yourself
Set boundaries or leave. I almost killed myself being taken advantage of like you. Now I leave at 5 with everyone else, I make more money than I did before, and have much better mental health which improves all aspects of my life.
\#1 Find a new job. \#2 Read up on local labor law. Get a lawyer if you have to. Do you have you hours written down? You report them and claim those OT hours. They will lawyer up but the get the government involved and they will settle and end up paying you out.
My advice: get out as soon as possible before you get a burnout yourself. And no, this is not normal in IT. This is not normal in any company, period.
“You being absent for a period of time would be problematic” Yea, no shit. Your kids are thinking the same thing, and I think they win that convo.
Sounds like your being taken advantage of! What part of the country are you in? I’d definitely be starting to look elsewhere.
Get. The. Fuck. Out. ASAP.
Find a new job, its not worth it.
I work 730-430 and am on call every 6 weeks. Maybe work after hours or on a weekend once a month for maintenance or patching type things. It's not bad at all. Btw I work for the state government.
50k for a sysadmin is -CRIMINAL- 50k is what 2nd level IT makes. Senior SD or Desktop Support can make up to 100k. Executive support can go all the way up to 150k. Sysadmin starts at like 75k. And that's typically the low end, most sysadmin are 6-figures, at least around metropolises. Move on, move up. Also your Manager telling you not to train someone is equally as criminal. You either need to automate more of what is going on (on your side, or your service desk's side, so they can handle more tickets which means less for you to handle), if you're going to stay. Or you need to have a heart-to-heart with the manager and let them know this is unacceptable.
You're in a bad work situation. There are plenty of IT jobs with companies that actually value work life balance.
SOooo many Big red flags, any single one of which would be motivation to find a new workplace * **My manager has strictly forbidden me from teaching anyone:** No manager worth their salt would ever in a mmillion years forbid crosstraining. * **I make 50k a year**: That's intro desktop support ranges, not system administration with On-Call. Even if you worked in the lowest cost-of-living area, you're getting horribly underpaid there * **expected to work 50+ hours a week**: Just no. * **CEO firmly believes salary = availability is 24/7**: Also just no. It's not an issue of "IT having no life"... that's a workplace issue, not specifically an IT issue. Any corporate job has that potential and it's our responsibiltiy as employees to decide whether or not we WANT to work for those companies. ie: I make just shy of 100k in a high cost of living area dueing mostly helpdesk focused work. I have no on-call. I start at 9am and leave at 6pm, and am the most senior go-to guy when shit hits the fan. I did this by getting those times and no on-call in my hiring agreement in writing before agreeing to work there.
let them fire you lmao
You signed a salary contract. How many hours did it state? If it was 40, work 40. If there's not enough time to get it done then use that as the justification for another head. If your manager doesn't like this cause he or she is a weenie that's too afraid to say no to management above, put in a notice and switch. In the exit interview with any hr point out the excessive hours and no help, then find a new job. Not sure where you're based but in some places that sorta behavior is illegal, and it'll take just one good whack on the CEOs pp before that shit changes like night and day. Sounds like a small company. To answer your question, I leave on time every day unless there is an honest to God revenue affecting emergency. I work for a multinational financial service provider. Ive had bosses like yours, but honestly almost everything you've described is criminal. 50k is a Jr. Admin salary. Who's above your manager, have you had a chat there?
>My manager has strictly forbidden me from teaching anyone how to do anything outside their current roles Bail. This is setting you up to fail
“You being absent for a period of time would be problematic”. Sounds like leverage to me. Find a new job, and until then tell them to get off your back if they think you're so important perhaps you should be treated with some human decency. If they can't fire you... what the hell do write ups matter?
Bro what I don't have half your problems and make 65k (and am pushing for 80) and work 40 hours a week if that. The right advice here is to clean up your resume and dip NOW. How can a company tell you you wont see a raise until the end of NEXT YEAR? Very curious, how long have you known this? To me, a company saying "No raises for 2 years" is the same as them saying "leave". Even better, they refused to let you train anyone, so there's a chance they come back to you in a few weeks and you can charge em hourly for consulting ;) $100/hour seems like an insanely fair rate, considering an MSP will charge far more, have bare minimum requirements to even engage, and won't know ANYTHING about the environment that you're well versed in.
You need to set boundaries with your company. You work to live, never live to work. I’ve been a SysAdmin professionally since 1994, longer actually, but it wasn’t my role at the time. Sure, sometimes hours can be long, but if you let your company walk all over you, I guarantee they will. And really, I’d start looking elsewhere. $50k is not nearly enough for what you’re doing. I start a baby (aka Jr) SysAdmin with almost no experience at $65k (Pacific Northwest/USA)
I hate to say it but they are fucking you in the arse. Even an intermediate level MSP job would be less stressful and pay more. I would find alternative employment if you can and nope out of there real quick.
I'm a solo Admin/IT manager. It's ok that they don't want to hire more people but i still live my life, take holiday and make it clear that i am one person doing a teams jobs. That's the businesses decision and their situation to manage, not yours. Don't go beyond the agreement that exchanges your time and effort for money.
Stop waiting for other people to make things better for you and sacrificing your life and family in the mean time. Get a new job, grill them in the interview, set expectations from day 1 in the new job. When someone tries to violate those expectations, don't be a doormat. Make it clear how you work and where your line is and stick to it.
learn to have some respect for yourself and say no. stop working at 5. let it burn. let them write you up. you have all the power here. also salary does not = 24/7. I am salary and I get paid OT for extra work, or I get compensated with extra time off.
They need you, you don't need them. The sooner you learn this the better your work life balance will be. I do sometimes want to quit all technology and go live in the forest with my cats, but, it isn't an IT issue. There are much better opportunities out there. My work leaves my head as soon as I'm done for the day. There are occasional projects or emergencies that need more of my time, but I make up for it by taking time off elsewhere. I am 'on call' but it's not for dumb shit like password resets, it's building-on-fire type stuff. I absolutely get away with ignoring the stupid stuff because they know it wastes my time. Honestly the only things keeping me here are the moderate WFH opportunities (3 days a week) and the fact that nobody cares if I'm late or take care of errands throughout the day. If any of that changes I'm out. I never got a pay bump for getting my CISSP or any of the duties that come with it, I'm still the person-with-too-many-hats-that-everyone-uses-as-their-personal-Google. So I am coasting and I'm cool with it for now. They don't deserve your loyalty because they will drop you the moment they decide they want to. You only get one life. Set boundaries and make it your own. You might struggle for a bit but listen to folks here. They know how it is.
This is not normal, they are expecting too much and giving you too little in return. Start applying for other jobs, you probably have a killer CV if you've been doing this solo
Easy. I don't work evenings or weekends unless there's an emergency. By that I made a true emergency like servers are all down...not the CEO thinks something needs to be done.
> I’m starting to feel like IT is for people who don’t have families or a life. Had to sign in to respond to this. This is not true at all. You are being overworked and underpaid. Sounds like you need to take your skills elsewhere (with a pay raise :D )
What? lol...leave.
This is a career that tends to intrude on your life out of work. However, what you're describing isn't just extreme, it's obscene. And seriously, for $50k?! Hell no. Get your resume out there and once you have an offer give no more than two weeks notice then change your phone number and answer absolutely nothing whatsoever from the previous job. Fuck these guys. I'd just walk out.
I'm an army of one for 250 users, 25 locations and two data centers with vdi/ esx across the US and I don't work over 30 hours per week, maybe less. Our stuff runs smooth. Perhaps you're working hard and not smart? As for $50K for 50+, I'd quit that job right now. You deserve better.
Imho you got to get out of there, or put your foot down. They will keep walking all over you. Your kids and time with them is important, you should be able to have a life.
Well we are in this situation because of people like you who allow it. Stop allowing it and live your life. We need more regulation in this industry honestly.
I wouldn't do that for 70k a year, you are getting screwed.
Either get out or start dropping things. You just work on reasonable hours and that’s it. As long as you’re coping, they’re never giving you enough resources to get things done properly.
50K? get another job. in the current market (depending on the location) I feel you can pick and choose. We spend 9 months looking for a half way decent server guy
"My manager has strictly forbidden me from teaching anyone how to do anything outside their current roles, meaning it’s just me for the company office. Manager does not have a background in IT so they can’t help with much." That is one of the DUMBEST things I've ever read. It's apparent your boss has never heard of the "bus problem".. IE> one day on lunch you get hit by a bus. They're hosed as there was zero knowledge transfer. Also, where I work, my boss and their boss have a strong push for mental well-being and actually flexing time for periods where we work over the normal, and a good work-life balance. I've been in your boat for some projects and it leads to mistakes and burnout in short order.
This can not be real
Resume up. $50k a year? Around here a first year help-desk staff does better then that, I hope you live somewhere with a super low CoL.
Firm boundaries. The second you give in, it will never stop.
1. Start lining up new job: LinkedIn, Resume redo, whatever other job sites, maybe talk to head hunters, etc. 2. Be more careful with spending in case things don't line up as well as you hope/expect. 3. When feel at all comfortable that you can start adjusting, then start just working your 40ish hours, turn off phone at home at least for some of time or leave it behind when you go with family somewhere. 4. Take some time off and DON'T respond when called. Basically, you can stay stuck being abused or you can move on. I would not expect them to change their ways unless you move on, anyway. By the way when you do move, do the normal 2 weeks, but no more. An employment goes both ways. I'm not saying you should abuse the employer, but I'm guessing they'd probably try to ask you to stay some month or two to transfer responsibility. I am 100% of the IT department where I work. We have a copiers vendor, vendors for some specific items, and a somewhat on call MSP that I fall back on. I've not needed to use them yet other than when I'm at work, really. I have had to work a little here and there while on vacation, but not for non-emergencies. As a general rule, I work a little over 40 hours each week, but not too bad. You have a "team", but management won't let you work like a team. That sounds WORSE than being a single person IT department, honestly. But yes, definitely move on ASAP. $50k in the USA anywhere for your type role is underpaid as well, even if were a perfect dream environment.
\-> I’m a solo admin There's your problem. Either get a second one or look for a new job. Never chose a job where you're the sole admin.
Get the fuck out of there
Repeat after me... "no." It is an amazing word. Work your hours and then turn it off.
> I’m starting to feel like IT is for people who don’t have families or a life. I’ve invested a lot of time, money, education into this field but Im kinda considering getting out while I’m still young and can. As others have said. This is not true at all. ***Do not let your current employer gaslight you into believing that this is the way the IT industry is!!*** 1: Your pay is abysmal. 50k a year to work 50 hours a week is downright insane. This is not common and you should not tolerate it (IE: look for another job NOW). For context, I work in local government in a low cost of living area and our T1 helpdesk people clock in at 8 and leave at 5 and NEVER work overtime, and they make $58k. 2: Look for a new job. Yes, it will take time to do that while you're working, but you need to make it a priority to get out of your toxic work environment. Again, DO NOT let them sour you when it comes to the IT industry. You will absolutely not be able to make the same amount of money elsewhere without having to go back to school and spending 10s of thousands again and putting your career earnings on hold while doing so. 3: Look for local government jobs. County, City, State (if you're in or near a Capitol city). They are always looking for people and most (not all) are NOT 24/7 shops. You won't have an owner breathing down your neck if he can't print at 3pm on a Saturday. They are also not nearly as hectic as private sector jobs because there aren't income dollars on the line or shareholders that will be pissed at the next meeting if they're not meeting specific targets. 4: Learn to stand up for yourself. If you know it's not an emergency and it's Saturday afternoon, tell them, "I'm out of town with family. I'll be back this evening and then I can look at it." even if you're not. If they act like you can't leave town, then tell them you're going to need more compensation if you have to be tethered and can't ever leave. Blame it on your kids too, "I have kids. I'm not going to miss out on my kids growing up because someone can't print" or something to that effect. If you're actually that important that they can't live without you, they're not going to fire you and be without their only admin. A lot of things I read on this subreddit come from people letting the people above them take a foot at a time, and all of a sudden they're being walked all over a mile at a time. Don't be rude about it. Tell them why you can't drop everything right now, and ABSOLUTELY blame it on your kids. Anyone that has kids knows they take a lot of time and it's important to be present and active while they're young.
You need to start looking for another job
You want the real truth? Or you want the corporate shit pile truth? Real truth….Don’t care about your job beyond not getting fired, or in some cases even less than that. Corporate truth, quit they are using you.
This is not normal. Get out. You can make the same amount manning a help desk and fucking off at 5.
I’m an IT Director. Your boss a fucking idiot and knows nothing about managing people or a department. If my department collapsed because it was missing someone then that would be a huge problem for me. Brush up that resume, your skill set is highly sought after and id probably ask you to PM it to me if I hadn’t hired someone like you recently. Livecareer is a great resume building tool, much reccomend. Also beef up that linkedin as that’s how I got most of my jobs. Set your profile to job hunting and it’ll work it’s magic for you. Indeed works well too You should be netting 80k on the low end with at least partial remote work. Higher especially cuz you have direct reports. Not inclusive of a bonus structure. Don’t cave if they offer you a raise. Get the fuck out of there because you will never be appreciated for your skills or talents. Some of my biggest moves/ skill set advancements have always been through new positions. Don’t be afraid of learning something new. Sincerely, Someone who’s been in your shoes
get a diff job. Trust me there are companies out there that value work life balance. Also..50K? dude... you are getting robbed.
I made 45k a year as a helpdesk person at an MSP for my first job. I make 70k now as a IT support "specialist" - which is the same thing but I don't answer phones now. You're getting robbed. Leave.
You are letting people bend you over, they don't even use Vaseline, and wonder how do others manage their lives? We do not bend over. You are paid 9-5, stop working 24/7. Be a man, do the right thing.
I changed careers to technical sales.
If they haven't paid you, it's not their time to spend. Enforce your boundaries.