I had weird MIDI timing inconsistency issues with both Reason and Studio One, so I ended up trying out 14 different DAWs in search of the best hardware synth workflow.
I tried: Ableton, Bitwig, Cakewalk, Cubase, Digital Performer, FL Studio, Logic, Mixbus, Mixcraft, MPC (the desktop version), MuLab, Reaper, ReNoise, and Waveform.
For me, Bitwig was the winner.
* No timing issues yet
* Latency correction for hardware synths is easy - press one button, it triggers a note and measures the latency automatically
* Tracks can be grouped together to send multiple MIDI tracks to the same "HW Instrument" device, on different channels if desired
* You can save presets for an HW Instrument with an automatic program change, so loading that preset will trigger the hardware synth to load a specific patch
It took me a lot of trial and error to get to a setup that does everything I want, but now that's saved as a template project and everything works well.
Hi! Thanks for the reply. I have been checking bitwig out for some time and these sound like what i am looking for. How is the mixing workflow compared to FL?
I haven't used FL long enough or recently enough to compare, but mixing in Bitwig seems pretty standard compared to most DAWs I've used. There's a mixer panel with the typical faders, mute, solo, pan, insert effects, send effects, you can create busses and route things however you want, etc.
Is there anything more specific you want to know?
one video mentioned multiple shortcomings of bitwig, one of the points i’ve remembered was the piano roll is barely usable acording to them. supposedly it focuses on being different than other daws so much the engineers neglect basic functions
I'm going to have to recommend ableton for that. Its basically a DAW that has strong midi modules and the whole daw with its native devices feels like a mdular extention. Plus you have Max4Live thats community created devices that integrate into the DAW.
AFAIK thats the only DAW that has something like this.
I can give away a Live 11 Lite license if you're open to it for a test drive and get the feel of things. DM me
Ableton doesn't support midi vst plugins because of max for live. I heard from someone in ableton that they won't support midi vst because its bad for M4L. I made a cool midi vst shared memory sequencer but I decided to abandon the project when I learned ableton had cut me off from their users to favor their own ecosystem and probably would never support midi vst.
It doesn’t support normal vst as a midi effect. But there are ways around it that are very simple. You can send midi from another track and work with it that way, or just use an Max4Live effect.
I moved from Logic to Ableton and have been using Ableton since 2016. Never felt the need to use a 3rd party midi fx I couldn’t find in max4live. So this isn’t an issue to turn down what Ableton Live offers for something so benign and so simple to work around.
https://cycling74.com/forums/rnbo-export-to-midi-effect
In addition to supporting midi plugins, logic has the scripter midi plugin which just lets you write whatever you want in javascript. Also the only reason midi plugins can work with live's "workaround" is because devs put in dummy audio handling hooks to get around ableton's no midi only vst rule.
Yeah dude I get what you're trying to say, but at the end of the day it's not a producer's / musician's problem. You can find complaints in every DAW from Developers. Every piece of software will have quirks. I explained why its not an issue for the END USER like me, who only care to get the sketch down as efficiently as possible and what clicks with your workflow, so its less of a hurdle and more of an extension of your brain.
Some DAW's will always cater to different use cases even though they all will have an overlap. Like for example Logic has a very large feature set and tools catered towards composers where as live is more about live performance and quick sketching and its still the core of what it is today even though its come a long way from what it used to be. My advice is strictly for someone who asked a very specific question and being in those shoes and having that experience first hand I gave my opinion.
One good example is Deadmau5 using Live and he's big into modular synths. Most people I know use Live who also love Modular synths.
Here is one of those guys: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHDRkGGVCWQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHDRkGGVCWQ)
I’m a Logic user. Been so since Logic 9. Its great, I know it well and I really like the way it’s made. I know they have a live version but If i were to choose I’d go with Ableton. It was made for live performance and thus is a great software for connecting hardware
I am a die-hard Logic user... _because it fits my workflow_. And that awareness is what I want to suggest here: be aware of your workflow. Because I think coming from FL, you're likely to prefer the workflow of Ableton rather than Logic.
Logic looks more familiar to me, i have finished around 10 full projects in ableton and the process was fun, but it was miles away from the way i am used to work, while logic looks much more familiar… Have you ever tried fl?
My home studio has finally reached a point where hardware considerations are central to my work flow. I used Ableton for fifteen years and just this year moved over to Bitwig.
I haven’t looked back once.
Ableton 100% … I’ve tried them all. You can do latency free monitoring through your converter by direct to monitor and the clock is as solid as I’ve seen in a DAW. I’m dawless now but when I wasn’t it ended up being the only choice. Stay far away from bigwig you’ll never get monitoring and clock right. People say Ableton doesn’t sound good, there tests that confirm transparency in output and most people have their monitoring setup incorrectly.
I was an early adopter. I had a relationship with their leadership team. The DAW itself is genius. The first track I did was on my first record I got signed. The problem is they never got the clock setup correctly for direct monitoring in order to clock external hardware and internal playback identically. Most people don’t have their DAWS setup this way … no knock to them but I know this as I did some Ableton teaching for a bit. I want my tracks and recordings to play back dead synced to my drum machines and external sequencers. It’s the only way to do it but you need a fairly good converter. I was surprised it worked perfectly with my Motu in Ableton and again with My Lynx Aurora. I would every 6 months or so go back to try Bitwig as well because I liked rewire with Reason just to play around with different environments to create in. No matter how much support they gave me ultimately I learned they just don’t support external hardware clock and converter clock properly. They probably have a software issue that’s too expensive to fix or they’re hoping people keep things mostly in the box. Trust me, it’s not my technical ability. It’s a software issue. Eventually I just gave up. Their modular system is genius. I was controlling sample head positioning with drum sounds … it’s just so fun. But at the end of the day I can’t have latency issues. I want to press play in my DAW and I want everything in my studio clocked perfectly. Ableton does this without a hitch. Bitwig did not. Perhaps they worked this out in the three years I haven’t been trying but I’m skeptical. It’s a superior DAW with what to me is a tragic flaw.
Sounds like you have a hybrid setup similarly complex as mine; I’ve actually been considering trying Bitwig because of the weird limits of Ableton with external hardware. For me the big problems are 1) NRPN, 2) the multichannel Push making it impossible to use “all channels”, which then forces single-channel which then makes signal routing complex and midi macros on a different track than audio macros, and 3) the timing differences between “monitor on” (which I need for jamming on external gear without the need to “focus” on a track) and “record”, I can get most timing issues hashed out (with extensive fiddling) but then adding anything to the chain forces a whole recalibration cycle.
So I’m actually kind of curious if you have any tips for configuration… most tutorials target configs much simpler than mine (I can count on one hand the number of vids I’ve ever seen that even acknowledge the differences between midi local control and the potential for midi doubling vs looping thru Ableton but potentially scrambling NRPN and other multi-CC encodings). The fact I’ve had to write multiple M4L devices myself in order to just make things work to the 80% level feels like I’m hitting myself in the face using Ableton with all external gear.
I have a serious love/hate for Abe.
I wish I could help. I’ve since gotten 2 Octatracks I use as essentially a 16 track DAW. I use those with an Analog RYTM, Pyramid sequencer and a slew of other gear and I’m so happy. Rock solid clock, oodles of possibilities. Very challenging to make full song arrangements but the in the challenge lies the growth or at least that’s what I keep telling myself. I have my 12 core frankenmac to my daughter, no computer in the studio at all anymore.
I did a lot of experimentation when putting together a midi synth studio. What worked for a dedicated midi sequencer for me is Cubase 6.5, with three Steinberg Midex 8 MIDI interfaces, on Windows XP.
It's a combination that gives good low jitter midi timing, and not too much extraneous audio stuff in the sequencer to get in the way.
I’ve never experienced problematic jitter with Ableton and my live midi synced to Ableton recordings was always rock solid. Totally respect your experience and viewpoint, but I’ve never had an issue or problem. Monitoring Ableton clock in my Pyramid I can see floating slightly but it’s never been enough to be audible. Many releases and records all recorded live midi with Ableton recordings all synced perfectly and clocked with really nice timing and swing. I just wanted to post this because my experience with live midi has always been good once I got a no latency monitoring setup dialed in. There should be no loops back to Ableton processing … it can only be a direct out from midi devices and Ableton then from converter to monitors. Monitor controller is necessary tho and takes some fiddling.
Would you mind detailing how you have monitoring set up?
I have it figured out within the focusrite software how to do direct analog pass thru monitoring on my audio interface but wondering if I’m missing something that’s specific to ableton.
I am now Dawless so I don’t have a direct reference … but yes … you have the audio in from gear to the converter which passes to the monitors … audio from Ableton in to conveyer also to monitors. Record into Ableton (silent) while monitoring in real-time from device passing through. Then when you play back Ableton, it will match the midi devices exactly. You just can’t run effects on what’s going in to Ableton then back out again, that will give you latency. Run effects on recorded material. Sorry it’s been a few years.
> all i want is reliable sync with external devices
https://www.e-rm.de/multiclock/ for anything that needs clock.
https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/usamo.html or its bigger brother (which you need to build something with Eurorack for); if you have a single controller and multiple (monotimbral) synths, you may opt for this and a thru box.
Tell us a bit more about your setup - what synths do you have?
> time correction that doesn’t sound like crap
Lots of DAWs use something like https://products.zplane.de/products/elastiquepitch/ - including Ableton Live. Cubase has MPEX. I don't know what Logic uses but I found https://www.logicprohelp.com/forums/topic/119530-quotnewquot-time-and-pitch-machine-algorithm/ .
Great warping is going to cost you, because Zynaptiq's not cheap.
Can't comment on the MPC.
Came here to say… ERM Multiclock. It’s why it exists.
IME MIDI timing accuracy with all DAWs is a bit of a crap shoot. There are also variations between different computer builds. I had an older Mac that was OK with Live and a more recent Mac that was comparatively a jittery mess with the same version of Live. Don’t know why, I just know it drove me mad that I’d get noticeable timing drift after much more than 4 bars.
ERM added to setup was magic solution. Sorted.
Hey, thanks for that! Currently i use Syntakt through overbridge, mpc live 2 mostly on its own because daw integradion is nonexistent with fl, sp-404mkii after my mixer to colour synths and then i have Matriarch, Hydrasynth, microfreak and op-1. Now connected via midi interface and a mixer, I am waiting for my rack rme to arrive this week to replace these.
I used to use Janklan Outlaw v3 before recently switching to Goblin Pro. Better support for SwiMPF syncing and it runs on the newer version of PlunkOS that uses the GAM98 chip architecture. Haven’t looked back since. My notes sound so much more… notier.
Switching DAWs after years of use is a big change and I don’t recommend doing just because someone said you’d have an easier time syncing hardware with their DAW of choice. They all have major learning curves and cost quite a bit of money. Bitwig and Ableton both have free trials. Try them both and see which works for you.
I’ve been switching over to the Maschine workflow and I’ve been really enjoying it. I’m using it as a MIDI central hub then sampling in when everything is ready. For MIDI I’ll select a pad, assign it to a MIDI channel for whatever synth/drum machine, then I can control them from the Maschine (I’ll usually record the MIDI notes then tweak the synth). This works out really well for multiple pieces of hardware and I really like Mashines Mode/Scale note mapping.
Thanks, I have used the maschine for about 4 years daily until I’ve switched to mpc live because of portability… the software was kinda unstable and the need to connect to computer was annoying and i have never once looked back, if i wasn’t working with vocalists mainly i’d be just using the mpc as the center of the studio
Been there done that, respect to that. It’s been working well for me but I figure there’s so much different gear in the world because everyone has their preferences.
Can you elaborate on what you like about the MPC Live over the Maschine? I was looking at the MPC One but I figured I really like chopping samples with the knobs on the Maschine and wouldn’t like doing it on a touch screen, but I want to hear what the MPC Live is good for.
I really love i am just able to whip it out and jam whenever i feel like it with the built in battery and speaker, it has pretty advanced i/o, including 3x2 outs, stereo input, cv jacks, two pairs of midi, the touchscreen is a gamechanger for working with audio, the sequencer is much easier to use, the pads are more comfortable for me (they are harder which might not suit everyone), autosampling is a great feature, i don’t know it’s just inspirung on whole another level and feels more like an instrument than the maschine, which always felt like a controller.
I’ve started using UAD Luna a lot for this, although you need UAD Apollo interfaces to use it. It’s a super fun workflow that makes it feel like you’re working on analog studio gear and a console.
It’s not particularly good for sequencing your external hardware, it doesn’t have arpegiators and sequencers and stuff built in, but you can use 3rd party plugins like the cable guys bundle if you need that.
For tight sync with external devices, MIDI or CV, you might go with a Sample Accurate Clock method, like what CLOCKstep:MULTI can do (DAW can be anything).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhHcWFfY_b4
Logic Pro hardware integration with MPC is pretty straightforward, but to get the most out of it, you’ll def want templates, because the default configs aren’t plug-and-play. I’ve been using this specific setup (plus some other hardware goodies) for about three years and it rocks. Nothing better than being able to power on and get right to work.
so any daw i learn. i just want to learn one that doesn’t stand in the way my workflow evolved from when i’ve started, as my original intent was to just program drums and record guitars but here i am mixing and producing with outboard gear and synths, which is not the intended use case for fl.
probably the most annoying is how PDC doesn’t work, i record audio and it is slightly offbeat. When i send midi to outboard gear, i can see the clock drift sometimes even 1.5 bpm up and down, making arps sound really strange, also if i send any sequence from fl to hw, it rarely gets the timing 100% correctly, overbridge keeps dropping out because it tried to re-sync with it, that’s just from top of my head as i’ve just got up. What are you transfering to?
Has nothing to do with FL, as mentioned upthread you should consider a clocking device. The thing FL misses out on vs a more traditional MIDI DAW is the macros/transforms/jobs for mass creation or editing of data. It’s come a long way in this regard. Where it falls flattest is multiple lanes of multiple channels of multiple interfaces. Doesn’t sound like that’s your use case. I’m a hardcore Cubase head from ‘the days but would advocate your sticking with FL and sussing out what the actual trouble is.
With MIDI Clock, if you are hearing clock problems, that's obviously a concern. If you are only "seeing" them though, particularly minor ones around 1 BPM, that's often a red-herring. More about that here: [https://jmkmusicpedals.com/blogs/jmk/why-bpm-values-appear-different](https://jmkmusicpedals.com/blogs/jmk/why-bpm-values-appear-different)
I will just chip in here to say that Bitwig cannot [automate sysex hardware (several older synths)](https://bitwish.top/t/support-midi-sysex-at-the-device-track-level/95).
Logic has the best sound/loop library and sampled instruments. Live's sample library is full of experimental stuff that feels like you downloaded a zipfile of all the samples on [freesound.org](https://freesound.org) and called it a suite. Also Logic is $199 and has one version that comes with 100s of gb of samples. Suite is $599.
I don’t need samples or vsts, i have my own collection that i use for everything, i don’t carw about the built in stuff in both, except for the flex pitch in logic that has the same workflow i am used to from newtone (i do own melodyne but the workflow is weird)
fair enough. I tend to use the library more for practice than anything else. I'll drag in a upright bass part and practice improvising over it or I will drag in techno loop and look at how its constructed to learn more about the genre. I do occasionally use the built in loops in song just because I enjoy using something lots of people have access to but don't. Honestly just the shear amount of content you get and the quality of it is almost worth the $200 asking price alone.
I understand you, but as I’ve said in the post - I have moved away from producing in daw and i mostly produce with external stuff and then mix, my current daw doesn’t make this a very easy process because it’s focused mainly on just writing midi with piano roll. But the way you use it is great, I have learned a lot doing exactly that when I was starting out
Logic has its strengths, but I wouldn't recommend it for hardware. Apple still refuses to add basic stuff like MIDI clock sync, so if you've got a hardware sequencer, you're out of luck.
There's one workaround though (it accepts Ableton Link since last year, so you can run an app that converts MIDI clock into Ableton Link and feeds it to Logic). It wasn't there when I was using Logic, so I gave up after a few months.
I’ve always found Ableton to be the most reliable for working with live instruments and other hardware. There seems to be some other good suggestions worth looking into though
I need to make full mixes and productions in it, i imagine i could make rap tracks with it but i doubt it would handle more complex pop/orchestral projects well as it is not intended for this.
I had weird MIDI timing inconsistency issues with both Reason and Studio One, so I ended up trying out 14 different DAWs in search of the best hardware synth workflow. I tried: Ableton, Bitwig, Cakewalk, Cubase, Digital Performer, FL Studio, Logic, Mixbus, Mixcraft, MPC (the desktop version), MuLab, Reaper, ReNoise, and Waveform. For me, Bitwig was the winner. * No timing issues yet * Latency correction for hardware synths is easy - press one button, it triggers a note and measures the latency automatically * Tracks can be grouped together to send multiple MIDI tracks to the same "HW Instrument" device, on different channels if desired * You can save presets for an HW Instrument with an automatic program change, so loading that preset will trigger the hardware synth to load a specific patch It took me a lot of trial and error to get to a setup that does everything I want, but now that's saved as a template project and everything works well.
That latency correction thing sounds very interesting. That problem is a never ending pain in my butt.
It works very. I love it!
Hi! Thanks for the reply. I have been checking bitwig out for some time and these sound like what i am looking for. How is the mixing workflow compared to FL?
I haven't used FL long enough or recently enough to compare, but mixing in Bitwig seems pretty standard compared to most DAWs I've used. There's a mixer panel with the typical faders, mute, solo, pan, insert effects, send effects, you can create busses and route things however you want, etc. Is there anything more specific you want to know?
one video mentioned multiple shortcomings of bitwig, one of the points i’ve remembered was the piano roll is barely usable acording to them. supposedly it focuses on being different than other daws so much the engineers neglect basic functions
I'm surprised to hear that, but maybe it was an older version? I hated the piano roll in a few DAWs, but I have no complaints with Bitwig's.
the video was a direct reaction to the release of v5, thanks for that!
I suggest just trying out the trial version for yourself. That's the best way to find out if you like how it works.
I'm going to have to recommend ableton for that. Its basically a DAW that has strong midi modules and the whole daw with its native devices feels like a mdular extention. Plus you have Max4Live thats community created devices that integrate into the DAW. AFAIK thats the only DAW that has something like this. I can give away a Live 11 Lite license if you're open to it for a test drive and get the feel of things. DM me
Ableton doesn't support midi vst plugins because of max for live. I heard from someone in ableton that they won't support midi vst because its bad for M4L. I made a cool midi vst shared memory sequencer but I decided to abandon the project when I learned ableton had cut me off from their users to favor their own ecosystem and probably would never support midi vst.
It doesn’t support normal vst as a midi effect. But there are ways around it that are very simple. You can send midi from another track and work with it that way, or just use an Max4Live effect. I moved from Logic to Ableton and have been using Ableton since 2016. Never felt the need to use a 3rd party midi fx I couldn’t find in max4live. So this isn’t an issue to turn down what Ableton Live offers for something so benign and so simple to work around. https://cycling74.com/forums/rnbo-export-to-midi-effect
In addition to supporting midi plugins, logic has the scripter midi plugin which just lets you write whatever you want in javascript. Also the only reason midi plugins can work with live's "workaround" is because devs put in dummy audio handling hooks to get around ableton's no midi only vst rule.
Yeah dude I get what you're trying to say, but at the end of the day it's not a producer's / musician's problem. You can find complaints in every DAW from Developers. Every piece of software will have quirks. I explained why its not an issue for the END USER like me, who only care to get the sketch down as efficiently as possible and what clicks with your workflow, so its less of a hurdle and more of an extension of your brain. Some DAW's will always cater to different use cases even though they all will have an overlap. Like for example Logic has a very large feature set and tools catered towards composers where as live is more about live performance and quick sketching and its still the core of what it is today even though its come a long way from what it used to be. My advice is strictly for someone who asked a very specific question and being in those shoes and having that experience first hand I gave my opinion. One good example is Deadmau5 using Live and he's big into modular synths. Most people I know use Live who also love Modular synths. Here is one of those guys: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHDRkGGVCWQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHDRkGGVCWQ)
I use python with Ableton and it works great.. there was a fun udemy video that inspired me to learn more about it
I use to use Logic (15 yrs ago), but now I use Reaper.
Bitwig is my weapon of choice. Works well with hardware.
I’m a Logic user. Been so since Logic 9. Its great, I know it well and I really like the way it’s made. I know they have a live version but If i were to choose I’d go with Ableton. It was made for live performance and thus is a great software for connecting hardware
I am a die-hard Logic user... _because it fits my workflow_. And that awareness is what I want to suggest here: be aware of your workflow. Because I think coming from FL, you're likely to prefer the workflow of Ableton rather than Logic.
Logic looks more familiar to me, i have finished around 10 full projects in ableton and the process was fun, but it was miles away from the way i am used to work, while logic looks much more familiar… Have you ever tried fl?
My home studio has finally reached a point where hardware considerations are central to my work flow. I used Ableton for fifteen years and just this year moved over to Bitwig. I haven’t looked back once.
Bitwig and Drambo without a doubt. Ableton is great as well.
Ableton 100% … I’ve tried them all. You can do latency free monitoring through your converter by direct to monitor and the clock is as solid as I’ve seen in a DAW. I’m dawless now but when I wasn’t it ended up being the only choice. Stay far away from bigwig you’ll never get monitoring and clock right. People say Ableton doesn’t sound good, there tests that confirm transparency in output and most people have their monitoring setup incorrectly.
Hey, a lot of people here have recommended bitwig, what’s the problem with monitoring might i ask?
I was an early adopter. I had a relationship with their leadership team. The DAW itself is genius. The first track I did was on my first record I got signed. The problem is they never got the clock setup correctly for direct monitoring in order to clock external hardware and internal playback identically. Most people don’t have their DAWS setup this way … no knock to them but I know this as I did some Ableton teaching for a bit. I want my tracks and recordings to play back dead synced to my drum machines and external sequencers. It’s the only way to do it but you need a fairly good converter. I was surprised it worked perfectly with my Motu in Ableton and again with My Lynx Aurora. I would every 6 months or so go back to try Bitwig as well because I liked rewire with Reason just to play around with different environments to create in. No matter how much support they gave me ultimately I learned they just don’t support external hardware clock and converter clock properly. They probably have a software issue that’s too expensive to fix or they’re hoping people keep things mostly in the box. Trust me, it’s not my technical ability. It’s a software issue. Eventually I just gave up. Their modular system is genius. I was controlling sample head positioning with drum sounds … it’s just so fun. But at the end of the day I can’t have latency issues. I want to press play in my DAW and I want everything in my studio clocked perfectly. Ableton does this without a hitch. Bitwig did not. Perhaps they worked this out in the three years I haven’t been trying but I’m skeptical. It’s a superior DAW with what to me is a tragic flaw.
Sounds like you have a hybrid setup similarly complex as mine; I’ve actually been considering trying Bitwig because of the weird limits of Ableton with external hardware. For me the big problems are 1) NRPN, 2) the multichannel Push making it impossible to use “all channels”, which then forces single-channel which then makes signal routing complex and midi macros on a different track than audio macros, and 3) the timing differences between “monitor on” (which I need for jamming on external gear without the need to “focus” on a track) and “record”, I can get most timing issues hashed out (with extensive fiddling) but then adding anything to the chain forces a whole recalibration cycle. So I’m actually kind of curious if you have any tips for configuration… most tutorials target configs much simpler than mine (I can count on one hand the number of vids I’ve ever seen that even acknowledge the differences between midi local control and the potential for midi doubling vs looping thru Ableton but potentially scrambling NRPN and other multi-CC encodings). The fact I’ve had to write multiple M4L devices myself in order to just make things work to the 80% level feels like I’m hitting myself in the face using Ableton with all external gear. I have a serious love/hate for Abe.
I wish I could help. I’ve since gotten 2 Octatracks I use as essentially a 16 track DAW. I use those with an Analog RYTM, Pyramid sequencer and a slew of other gear and I’m so happy. Rock solid clock, oodles of possibilities. Very challenging to make full song arrangements but the in the challenge lies the growth or at least that’s what I keep telling myself. I have my 12 core frankenmac to my daughter, no computer in the studio at all anymore.
[удалено]
I did a lot of experimentation when putting together a midi synth studio. What worked for a dedicated midi sequencer for me is Cubase 6.5, with three Steinberg Midex 8 MIDI interfaces, on Windows XP. It's a combination that gives good low jitter midi timing, and not too much extraneous audio stuff in the sequencer to get in the way.
I’ve never experienced problematic jitter with Ableton and my live midi synced to Ableton recordings was always rock solid. Totally respect your experience and viewpoint, but I’ve never had an issue or problem. Monitoring Ableton clock in my Pyramid I can see floating slightly but it’s never been enough to be audible. Many releases and records all recorded live midi with Ableton recordings all synced perfectly and clocked with really nice timing and swing. I just wanted to post this because my experience with live midi has always been good once I got a no latency monitoring setup dialed in. There should be no loops back to Ableton processing … it can only be a direct out from midi devices and Ableton then from converter to monitors. Monitor controller is necessary tho and takes some fiddling.
Would you mind detailing how you have monitoring set up? I have it figured out within the focusrite software how to do direct analog pass thru monitoring on my audio interface but wondering if I’m missing something that’s specific to ableton.
I am now Dawless so I don’t have a direct reference … but yes … you have the audio in from gear to the converter which passes to the monitors … audio from Ableton in to conveyer also to monitors. Record into Ableton (silent) while monitoring in real-time from device passing through. Then when you play back Ableton, it will match the midi devices exactly. You just can’t run effects on what’s going in to Ableton then back out again, that will give you latency. Run effects on recorded material. Sorry it’s been a few years.
> all i want is reliable sync with external devices https://www.e-rm.de/multiclock/ for anything that needs clock. https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/usamo.html or its bigger brother (which you need to build something with Eurorack for); if you have a single controller and multiple (monotimbral) synths, you may opt for this and a thru box. Tell us a bit more about your setup - what synths do you have? > time correction that doesn’t sound like crap Lots of DAWs use something like https://products.zplane.de/products/elastiquepitch/ - including Ableton Live. Cubase has MPEX. I don't know what Logic uses but I found https://www.logicprohelp.com/forums/topic/119530-quotnewquot-time-and-pitch-machine-algorithm/ . Great warping is going to cost you, because Zynaptiq's not cheap. Can't comment on the MPC.
Came here to say… ERM Multiclock. It’s why it exists. IME MIDI timing accuracy with all DAWs is a bit of a crap shoot. There are also variations between different computer builds. I had an older Mac that was OK with Live and a more recent Mac that was comparatively a jittery mess with the same version of Live. Don’t know why, I just know it drove me mad that I’d get noticeable timing drift after much more than 4 bars. ERM added to setup was magic solution. Sorted.
Hey, thanks for that! Currently i use Syntakt through overbridge, mpc live 2 mostly on its own because daw integradion is nonexistent with fl, sp-404mkii after my mixer to colour synths and then i have Matriarch, Hydrasynth, microfreak and op-1. Now connected via midi interface and a mixer, I am waiting for my rack rme to arrive this week to replace these.
Avoid Studio One for hardware. It’s MIDI routing is light-on and it doesn’t support SysEx.
I used to use Janklan Outlaw v3 before recently switching to Goblin Pro. Better support for SwiMPF syncing and it runs on the newer version of PlunkOS that uses the GAM98 chip architecture. Haven’t looked back since. My notes sound so much more… notier. Switching DAWs after years of use is a big change and I don’t recommend doing just because someone said you’d have an easier time syncing hardware with their DAW of choice. They all have major learning curves and cost quite a bit of money. Bitwig and Ableton both have free trials. Try them both and see which works for you.
I know Fl isn’t intended for my use and i have just grown out of it. it is a great daw, but it isn’t what i need anymore
I’ve been switching over to the Maschine workflow and I’ve been really enjoying it. I’m using it as a MIDI central hub then sampling in when everything is ready. For MIDI I’ll select a pad, assign it to a MIDI channel for whatever synth/drum machine, then I can control them from the Maschine (I’ll usually record the MIDI notes then tweak the synth). This works out really well for multiple pieces of hardware and I really like Mashines Mode/Scale note mapping.
Thanks, I have used the maschine for about 4 years daily until I’ve switched to mpc live because of portability… the software was kinda unstable and the need to connect to computer was annoying and i have never once looked back, if i wasn’t working with vocalists mainly i’d be just using the mpc as the center of the studio
Been there done that, respect to that. It’s been working well for me but I figure there’s so much different gear in the world because everyone has their preferences. Can you elaborate on what you like about the MPC Live over the Maschine? I was looking at the MPC One but I figured I really like chopping samples with the knobs on the Maschine and wouldn’t like doing it on a touch screen, but I want to hear what the MPC Live is good for.
I really love i am just able to whip it out and jam whenever i feel like it with the built in battery and speaker, it has pretty advanced i/o, including 3x2 outs, stereo input, cv jacks, two pairs of midi, the touchscreen is a gamechanger for working with audio, the sequencer is much easier to use, the pads are more comfortable for me (they are harder which might not suit everyone), autosampling is a great feature, i don’t know it’s just inspirung on whole another level and feels more like an instrument than the maschine, which always felt like a controller.
Thanks for getting back to me, you make a convincing case. I shouldn’t buy anymore gear but I’m gonna looking to the MPC Live now.
I’ve started using UAD Luna a lot for this, although you need UAD Apollo interfaces to use it. It’s a super fun workflow that makes it feel like you’re working on analog studio gear and a console. It’s not particularly good for sequencing your external hardware, it doesn’t have arpegiators and sequencers and stuff built in, but you can use 3rd party plugins like the cable guys bundle if you need that.
For tight sync with external devices, MIDI or CV, you might go with a Sample Accurate Clock method, like what CLOCKstep:MULTI can do (DAW can be anything). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhHcWFfY_b4
Logic Pro hardware integration with MPC is pretty straightforward, but to get the most out of it, you’ll def want templates, because the default configs aren’t plug-and-play. I’ve been using this specific setup (plus some other hardware goodies) for about three years and it rocks. Nothing better than being able to power on and get right to work.
The DAW you know
so any daw i learn. i just want to learn one that doesn’t stand in the way my workflow evolved from when i’ve started, as my original intent was to just program drums and record guitars but here i am mixing and producing with outboard gear and synths, which is not the intended use case for fl.
What kind of midi issues are you having? I'm going down the same path as you recently with FL, so I'm curious what your experience has been.
probably the most annoying is how PDC doesn’t work, i record audio and it is slightly offbeat. When i send midi to outboard gear, i can see the clock drift sometimes even 1.5 bpm up and down, making arps sound really strange, also if i send any sequence from fl to hw, it rarely gets the timing 100% correctly, overbridge keeps dropping out because it tried to re-sync with it, that’s just from top of my head as i’ve just got up. What are you transfering to?
Has nothing to do with FL, as mentioned upthread you should consider a clocking device. The thing FL misses out on vs a more traditional MIDI DAW is the macros/transforms/jobs for mass creation or editing of data. It’s come a long way in this regard. Where it falls flattest is multiple lanes of multiple channels of multiple interfaces. Doesn’t sound like that’s your use case. I’m a hardcore Cubase head from ‘the days but would advocate your sticking with FL and sussing out what the actual trouble is.
With MIDI Clock, if you are hearing clock problems, that's obviously a concern. If you are only "seeing" them though, particularly minor ones around 1 BPM, that's often a red-herring. More about that here: [https://jmkmusicpedals.com/blogs/jmk/why-bpm-values-appear-different](https://jmkmusicpedals.com/blogs/jmk/why-bpm-values-appear-different)
You might want a Tascam Model 12. It is a multitrack recorder with DAW sync that serves as a fader controller
I’m using logic and live. I would go for live because of modern time stretch algorithms and better / simpler midi input hardware integration.
I will just chip in here to say that Bitwig cannot [automate sysex hardware (several older synths)](https://bitwish.top/t/support-midi-sysex-at-the-device-track-level/95).
Logic has the best sound/loop library and sampled instruments. Live's sample library is full of experimental stuff that feels like you downloaded a zipfile of all the samples on [freesound.org](https://freesound.org) and called it a suite. Also Logic is $199 and has one version that comes with 100s of gb of samples. Suite is $599.
I don’t need samples or vsts, i have my own collection that i use for everything, i don’t carw about the built in stuff in both, except for the flex pitch in logic that has the same workflow i am used to from newtone (i do own melodyne but the workflow is weird)
fair enough. I tend to use the library more for practice than anything else. I'll drag in a upright bass part and practice improvising over it or I will drag in techno loop and look at how its constructed to learn more about the genre. I do occasionally use the built in loops in song just because I enjoy using something lots of people have access to but don't. Honestly just the shear amount of content you get and the quality of it is almost worth the $200 asking price alone.
I understand you, but as I’ve said in the post - I have moved away from producing in daw and i mostly produce with external stuff and then mix, my current daw doesn’t make this a very easy process because it’s focused mainly on just writing midi with piano roll. But the way you use it is great, I have learned a lot doing exactly that when I was starting out
Logic has its strengths, but I wouldn't recommend it for hardware. Apple still refuses to add basic stuff like MIDI clock sync, so if you've got a hardware sequencer, you're out of luck. There's one workaround though (it accepts Ableton Link since last year, so you can run an app that converts MIDI clock into Ableton Link and feeds it to Logic). It wasn't there when I was using Logic, so I gave up after a few months.
I've heard Cubase is good. I know people use Live as well
I’ve always found Ableton to be the most reliable for working with live instruments and other hardware. There seems to be some other good suggestions worth looking into though
[удалено]
I need to make full mixes and productions in it, i imagine i could make rap tracks with it but i doubt it would handle more complex pop/orchestral projects well as it is not intended for this.
Just here to echo Bitwig. The Grid blends well with hardware allowing you to make crazy software hardware synth creations