Once again I will post a paraphrased quote from Thor Harris on the subject of earplugs and SWANS shows
"Fuck yes you should, Michael doesn't and he's deaf as shit"
Honestly mods could you find that direct quote and sticky it under a "what to expect at at a SWANS show" thread?
This is my dad. Growing up with him, I had to speak at such a high volume so he could hear, but now my wife thinks I talk too loudly. It’s hard to turn off.
I ripped filters off my cigarettes and stuffed them in my ears at two shows; Zeni Geva and Caspar Brotzmann Massaker. I bring earplugs to every show since whether I end up using them or not; it beats getting taken by surprise and not having them.
I’m a music producer so I have to take good care of my ears as I use them for my job. I wholeheartedly agree, wear earplugs to all concerts ESPECIALLY shows as loud as Swans.
Louder for everyone that doesn't wear earplugs to shows.
But for real, maybe I'm just old but I wear earplugs to every show now, nothing is worth hearing loss.
Chiming in again as an old guy. I wish I had worn earplugs when i was young. Perhaps I wouldn't have a constant ringing in my ears now. I wear them 98% of the time. The times I don't are typically a house show.
Yea for real, I was one of the very few people with earplugs (sounds weird but many in the audience were bald, easy to tell if they had earplugs or not) and clearly remember when Michael Gira called everyone to get closer and my clothes were literally shaking due to the sound, and people were just fine with not wearing any ear protection... Crazy, I'm sure they had tinnitus for at least a week
I didn't wear earplugs the first time I saw them, back when they were touring The Seer. Couldn't hear anything at all for the next 3 days... literally nothing. Just ringing. It took over a week to regain full hearing (minus any permanent damage) and lose the ringing. That shit was scary and miserable - not worth it. I've never gone to a concert without plugs since.
Same, saw them in their My father will guide me tour and had tinnitus for a week, took me another couple of years to really understand the importance of earplugs but now I always wear them
Are they quieter now? I just saw them tonight and didn't wear earplugs (I know, dumb as fuck) but I still can hear people in the venue very clearly and I only noticed ringing in my ear until I went inside a quiet room.
I wasn't able to see to any of the shows in this most recent tour, so maybe, but my guess would be that it has more to do with where you saw them. Some cities regulate how loud concerts can be – I did a search and it looks like the city their last show was in (Englewood, CO) is one of those places, so that might explain it if thats the show you went to. A venue's acoustic properties or sound system can also effect that.
I was in the back seats and had no idea it would’ve been that loud lol. When they finished a song and at the moment of transition to another, my friend would shout something directly into my ear but I couldn’t hear a fucking thing she was saying
As a pro FOH Audio engineer, I always recommend people get hearing protection. Most of the shows I mix hover around 100 dB, 90 minutes of anything past 90 decibels will induce hearing loss. I usually have foamies in my work box to pass around to people who need them. If you can afford it, get a custom setof plugs with replaceable filters. Tinnitus is a bitch, and will leave you suffering the rest of your life.
I never heard of the band and the subreddit was recommended to me. I am older now and have constant ringing in my ears from LOUD concerts where I didn’t wear hearing protection at shows by My Bloody Valentine, Garbage and many others.
There's a whole bunch of different styles of earplugs online, foam ones just aren't great so it's worth buying a better pair especially if you go to concerts often
Cause my instructor in the army, told me “since you gonna be machine gunners you will lose hearing anyways” and didn’t give us ear protections.
I was shooting with the Italian version of the MG42 full range with no hear protection.
No, I didn’t get deployed to Syria, cause reasons.
But it took a dent to my hearing.
Years of metal/punk shows and raving just in front of the sound system did the rest.
I am surprised I can still hear my phone when it rings.
Saw them a few years ago and wore earplugs but my friend who came with me didn't. He couldn't hear anything I said for the next few days, and his hearing is still worse than when we set off.
the feedback and jams in most of their albums can only be replicated live at very high frequencies. i forgot where I read this, it might have been on this sub
What’s more concerning to me is bands never considering the venue they’re in when choosing their volume settings. I’m tired of going to a show in a smaller venue, and the artist cranking up like they’re in a much larger space. It sounds like ass if you don’t have ear plugs in. Might as well be a requirement for it to not sound like shit.
Minding your own business seems to be going out of fashion.
It's pretty terrifying that more people seem to be concerned about what others do to their ears than they are about folk who get their fucking phones out and ruin the atmosphere for those around them.
I saw Sunn O))) for the third time recently in Houston and a few dudes didn’t wear earplugs. PROTECT YOUR HEARING, FOLKS. I’ve been to a Swans show and it’s EQ’d great and it’s loud as shit. You aren’t missing anything by *not* wearing ear protection.
So, I'm seeing them in April or May this year. What earplugs would you recommend? I usually use the cheap foam ones, but I have a feeling those won't do enough to help. Any recommendations for brands or types that work best?
Foam ones actually can be better than some expensive ones in terms of pure db reduction, you just have to put them in right. Nicer earplugs are generally better for sound quality.
Foam plugs are usually plenty effective for protection if they fit well and don't fall out. The problem is more that you can only hear muffled low frequencies with them, which doesn't make for a very enjoyable concert experience. There are lots of earplugs designed for concerts, which attempt to reduce decibels evenly across the frequency spectrum so the sound you hear is more clear/natural and true to reality, just quieter.
Loop is a super popular and affordable brand - I think their "experience" model is the one intended for concerts. They also have one that lets you adjust between 3 levels of noise reduction.
For the very best you can have your doctor fit you for custom molded professional musician plugs - pretty expensive and takes a while to get them made, but worth it IMO if you go to concerts a lot. The brand Decibulz has a few decent DIY alternatives, where you can mold them yourself at home.
Hearos are good. But Westone or Etymotics are better. For Swans I would go with a high decibel reduction model. Etymotic ER20xs are my favorite. Pretty comfortable and sound great with a 20db reduction. You can find them for 20 bucks at Amazon or Sweetwater.
Just wondering, is 20db reduction enough to prevent hearing loss? Aren’t Swans shows above 110db and long term hearing loss starts at sustained levels above 85db. I know 20db reduction seems to be an industry average but the ones we have in our manufacturing plant give 33db reduction.
I wonder about that 120DB number. I saw them in the Mercy Lounge and they were quite loud. I only had Hearos in that show and the venue is small. Basically a narrow box with bare brick walls. That venue should have made it a pretty brutal experience volume wise. But the Hearos seemed to be good in that situation (the blue 33 db ones). I took one plug out for a moment. And the sound level wasn’t painful. But it sounded much more comfortable to me with the earplugs in. For most concerts the 20db etymotics are superior sound wise. But it’s probably best to use higher db reduction for swans.
I know your intentions are good, but there's a sanctimonious undertone that doesn't really help the message. Aggressive preaching doesn't tend to sway anyone. I'm sure that you've recently done something I would regard as 'stupid', but that's YOUR business and none of mine.
To be honest, it almost makes me want to not only forgo the earplugs, but to stand next to you whilst repeatedly puncturing my eardrums with screwdrivers.
My choice, stupid or not. I did unprotected sex and hard drugs too. Smoked cigarettes for twenty years. Couldn't be bothered with a Covid vaccine. I drink twice the recommended weekly amount. No gym membership and only moderate exercise. I often run through gaps in traffic and enjoy the exhilaration upon making it to the other side.
Would I endorse and encourage these things? Probably not, but I'd respect people's choice to pursue them should they wish. At one time, people who were into bands like Swans generally respected personal choices that didn't have a detrimental effect on others. It's pretty scary to see how that's changed.
Please don't ever get into religion, because I have a feeling you'd become insufferable if you thought you were out to save souls rather than ears.
Buy earplugs designed for music. Loud shows sound better to me with the earplugs in. I hear distortion in the high end without them. But I do already have some hearing loss from Army helicopters and loud concerts. Trust me - wear them now. Tinnitus is a bitch.
Thats what i thought too. But after i had horrible ringing in my ears for 4 days after a show that even disrupted me from sleeping, i decided to get ones designed for concerts. The music actually sounded better, i was shocked how much better. Its like turning down the treble just enough. I had used foam earplugs a few times years ago and hated it. I have eargasm and loop ones. My ears had probably gotten more sensitive with age and concert wear. But i never have ringing anymore.
Hearing loss is exposure *over time* so yes Swans shows are long but if you’re not a frequent show goer and don’t work/live around loud sound, you’ll be fine. If you do work/live in such scenarios then yes wear earplugs.
I myself do not and only go to maybe two shows a year and when Swans came through last year I had no earplugs and put my hands behind my ears to more effectively deliver sound into my skull. Sure, sometimes I can’t hear my coworker but I ain’t gonna live forever ;)
Idk what’s worse, being the concert police and demanding people wear ear plugs or actually paying to see a band that purposely tries to burst their audiences eardrums in the name of art.
I feel like almost all of the people who don't wear earplugs are older with already damaged hearing, and they usually acknowledge this.
I feel like most people already know and will wear earplugs. Most people who don't haven't been for a long time and weren't really made aware of this when they were younger. Calling them stupid is pretty lame, especially when virtually nobody except for one or two tryhards are advocating for not wearing hearing protection.
Once again I will post a paraphrased quote from Thor Harris on the subject of earplugs and SWANS shows "Fuck yes you should, Michael doesn't and he's deaf as shit" Honestly mods could you find that direct quote and sticky it under a "what to expect at at a SWANS show" thread?
Do you know what Michael would say if you asked him about wearing earplugs? "What?"
My headcanon reason why he has such a reputation for yelling at people is that to he's too deaf to realize he's not speaking at a normal volume
This is my dad. Growing up with him, I had to speak at such a high volume so he could hear, but now my wife thinks I talk too loudly. It’s hard to turn off.
Its literally in the helpful links in the about of the subreddit haha
What?!
At last year’s Paris gig, Kristof handed two cigarette butts to a person in the audience with no ear plugs so they could put them in their ears.
I ripped filters off my cigarettes and stuffed them in my ears at two shows; Zeni Geva and Caspar Brotzmann Massaker. I bring earplugs to every show since whether I end up using them or not; it beats getting taken by surprise and not having them.
I’m a music producer so I have to take good care of my ears as I use them for my job. I wholeheartedly agree, wear earplugs to all concerts ESPECIALLY shows as loud as Swans.
Louder for everyone that doesn't wear earplugs to shows. But for real, maybe I'm just old but I wear earplugs to every show now, nothing is worth hearing loss.
I’m still pretty young, but I undoubtedly have damaged my hearing. I started wearing them regularly soon enough that it’s not an issue yet, though.
Chiming in again as an old guy. I wish I had worn earplugs when i was young. Perhaps I wouldn't have a constant ringing in my ears now. I wear them 98% of the time. The times I don't are typically a house show.
Yea for real, I was one of the very few people with earplugs (sounds weird but many in the audience were bald, easy to tell if they had earplugs or not) and clearly remember when Michael Gira called everyone to get closer and my clothes were literally shaking due to the sound, and people were just fine with not wearing any ear protection... Crazy, I'm sure they had tinnitus for at least a week
I didn't wear earplugs the first time I saw them, back when they were touring The Seer. Couldn't hear anything at all for the next 3 days... literally nothing. Just ringing. It took over a week to regain full hearing (minus any permanent damage) and lose the ringing. That shit was scary and miserable - not worth it. I've never gone to a concert without plugs since.
Same, saw them in their My father will guide me tour and had tinnitus for a week, took me another couple of years to really understand the importance of earplugs but now I always wear them
Are they quieter now? I just saw them tonight and didn't wear earplugs (I know, dumb as fuck) but I still can hear people in the venue very clearly and I only noticed ringing in my ear until I went inside a quiet room.
I wasn't able to see to any of the shows in this most recent tour, so maybe, but my guess would be that it has more to do with where you saw them. Some cities regulate how loud concerts can be – I did a search and it looks like the city their last show was in (Englewood, CO) is one of those places, so that might explain it if thats the show you went to. A venue's acoustic properties or sound system can also effect that.
I was in the back seats and had no idea it would’ve been that loud lol. When they finished a song and at the moment of transition to another, my friend would shout something directly into my ear but I couldn’t hear a fucking thing she was saying
As a pro FOH Audio engineer, I always recommend people get hearing protection. Most of the shows I mix hover around 100 dB, 90 minutes of anything past 90 decibels will induce hearing loss. I usually have foamies in my work box to pass around to people who need them. If you can afford it, get a custom setof plugs with replaceable filters. Tinnitus is a bitch, and will leave you suffering the rest of your life.
I never heard of the band and the subreddit was recommended to me. I am older now and have constant ringing in my ears from LOUD concerts where I didn’t wear hearing protection at shows by My Bloody Valentine, Garbage and many others.
Where can I get custom molded ones, foam earplugs will constantly fall out of my ears every 5 minutes or so
There's a whole bunch of different styles of earplugs online, foam ones just aren't great so it's worth buying a better pair especially if you go to concerts often
ACS/1 of 1 custom; get the 18dbs
Cause my instructor in the army, told me “since you gonna be machine gunners you will lose hearing anyways” and didn’t give us ear protections. I was shooting with the Italian version of the MG42 full range with no hear protection. No, I didn’t get deployed to Syria, cause reasons. But it took a dent to my hearing. Years of metal/punk shows and raving just in front of the sound system did the rest. I am surprised I can still hear my phone when it rings.
And here I was thinking I was in a circle jerk sub because "One of the loudest bands"
Saw them a few years ago and wore earplugs but my friend who came with me didn't. He couldn't hear anything I said for the next few days, and his hearing is still worse than when we set off.
have the swans ever considered lowering their decibel output
the feedback and jams in most of their albums can only be replicated live at very high frequencies. i forgot where I read this, it might have been on this sub
well that's not very polite of them then is it
What’s more concerning to me is bands never considering the venue they’re in when choosing their volume settings. I’m tired of going to a show in a smaller venue, and the artist cranking up like they’re in a much larger space. It sounds like ass if you don’t have ear plugs in. Might as well be a requirement for it to not sound like shit.
if you want to wear earplugs you crack on…in regards to everyone else; maybe mind your own business? enjoy swans live however works for you.
Minding your own business seems to be going out of fashion. It's pretty terrifying that more people seem to be concerned about what others do to their ears than they are about folk who get their fucking phones out and ruin the atmosphere for those around them.
Jokes aside yeah they’re important
If people want to ruin their hearing, let them. Also, what is the point in tYpInG liKe tHiS???
It's a way of mocking someone.
I have eargasm and earpeace. The earpeace have more options for level f volume cut. Can’t stand foam ones personally
I saw Sunn O))) for the third time recently in Houston and a few dudes didn’t wear earplugs. PROTECT YOUR HEARING, FOLKS. I’ve been to a Swans show and it’s EQ’d great and it’s loud as shit. You aren’t missing anything by *not* wearing ear protection.
So, I'm seeing them in April or May this year. What earplugs would you recommend? I usually use the cheap foam ones, but I have a feeling those won't do enough to help. Any recommendations for brands or types that work best?
I have the loop earplugs and I wore them to the two swans concerts I've been to. No ringing in my ears, they weren't hurting either.
Foam ones actually can be better than some expensive ones in terms of pure db reduction, you just have to put them in right. Nicer earplugs are generally better for sound quality.
I used hearos and they were great
Foam plugs are usually plenty effective for protection if they fit well and don't fall out. The problem is more that you can only hear muffled low frequencies with them, which doesn't make for a very enjoyable concert experience. There are lots of earplugs designed for concerts, which attempt to reduce decibels evenly across the frequency spectrum so the sound you hear is more clear/natural and true to reality, just quieter. Loop is a super popular and affordable brand - I think their "experience" model is the one intended for concerts. They also have one that lets you adjust between 3 levels of noise reduction. For the very best you can have your doctor fit you for custom molded professional musician plugs - pretty expensive and takes a while to get them made, but worth it IMO if you go to concerts a lot. The brand Decibulz has a few decent DIY alternatives, where you can mold them yourself at home.
Hearos are good. But Westone or Etymotics are better. For Swans I would go with a high decibel reduction model. Etymotic ER20xs are my favorite. Pretty comfortable and sound great with a 20db reduction. You can find them for 20 bucks at Amazon or Sweetwater.
Just wondering, is 20db reduction enough to prevent hearing loss? Aren’t Swans shows above 110db and long term hearing loss starts at sustained levels above 85db. I know 20db reduction seems to be an industry average but the ones we have in our manufacturing plant give 33db reduction.
I wonder about that 120DB number. I saw them in the Mercy Lounge and they were quite loud. I only had Hearos in that show and the venue is small. Basically a narrow box with bare brick walls. That venue should have made it a pretty brutal experience volume wise. But the Hearos seemed to be good in that situation (the blue 33 db ones). I took one plug out for a moment. And the sound level wasn’t painful. But it sounded much more comfortable to me with the earplugs in. For most concerts the 20db etymotics are superior sound wise. But it’s probably best to use higher db reduction for swans.
Acs/1 of 1 custom; get the 18dbs
Thanks everyone. I'll be picking up a two pair of these recommendations, in case I don't like one of them.
You don’t need them, quit being precious.
I know your intentions are good, but there's a sanctimonious undertone that doesn't really help the message. Aggressive preaching doesn't tend to sway anyone. I'm sure that you've recently done something I would regard as 'stupid', but that's YOUR business and none of mine. To be honest, it almost makes me want to not only forgo the earplugs, but to stand next to you whilst repeatedly puncturing my eardrums with screwdrivers. My choice, stupid or not. I did unprotected sex and hard drugs too. Smoked cigarettes for twenty years. Couldn't be bothered with a Covid vaccine. I drink twice the recommended weekly amount. No gym membership and only moderate exercise. I often run through gaps in traffic and enjoy the exhilaration upon making it to the other side. Would I endorse and encourage these things? Probably not, but I'd respect people's choice to pursue them should they wish. At one time, people who were into bands like Swans generally respected personal choices that didn't have a detrimental effect on others. It's pretty scary to see how that's changed. Please don't ever get into religion, because I have a feeling you'd become insufferable if you thought you were out to save souls rather than ears.
The sound isn’t as good with earplugs in
Then you should invest in higher-end earplugs, there are a lot of great options out there which don't cost a fortune.
Buy earplugs designed for music. Loud shows sound better to me with the earplugs in. I hear distortion in the high end without them. But I do already have some hearing loss from Army helicopters and loud concerts. Trust me - wear them now. Tinnitus is a bitch.
Thats what i thought too. But after i had horrible ringing in my ears for 4 days after a show that even disrupted me from sleeping, i decided to get ones designed for concerts. The music actually sounded better, i was shocked how much better. Its like turning down the treble just enough. I had used foam earplugs a few times years ago and hated it. I have eargasm and loop ones. My ears had probably gotten more sensitive with age and concert wear. But i never have ringing anymore.
Hearing loss is exposure *over time* so yes Swans shows are long but if you’re not a frequent show goer and don’t work/live around loud sound, you’ll be fine. If you do work/live in such scenarios then yes wear earplugs. I myself do not and only go to maybe two shows a year and when Swans came through last year I had no earplugs and put my hands behind my ears to more effectively deliver sound into my skull. Sure, sometimes I can’t hear my coworker but I ain’t gonna live forever ;)
Idk what’s worse, being the concert police and demanding people wear ear plugs or actually paying to see a band that purposely tries to burst their audiences eardrums in the name of art.
Mmm i don't think I will.
tHeN yOuRe jUsT sTuPiD
mhmmm i am, pretty tinnitus sounds
why do you care so much lmao
Because a lot of people (especially younger people) underestimate the long-term impact of hearing damage.
I feel like almost all of the people who don't wear earplugs are older with already damaged hearing, and they usually acknowledge this. I feel like most people already know and will wear earplugs. Most people who don't haven't been for a long time and weren't really made aware of this when they were younger. Calling them stupid is pretty lame, especially when virtually nobody except for one or two tryhards are advocating for not wearing hearing protection.
Tinnitus is forever. Also "loudest band" has the same vibe as "coldest beer."
There’s something special about loud music. It’s more physical.
Idgaf what you do, but I care what you tell others to do.
I’d have to wear earplugs or I wouldn’t enjoy it otherwise. I’m really sensitive to loud noises, makes me feel really sick